I know absolutely nothing about generators. Can someone explain how they work and what to look for in a generator?
A generator is a machine to produce electricity. Beyond that simple statement come a number of complicated considerations for someone to consider.
First, what duty you intend for the machine to serve, i.e. fulltime support of a whole house; intermittent use to run some lights and appliances for a few hours per day; anything in between.
The basic generator unit consists of a motor (either gasoline, diesel or propane powered). The motor creates the mechanical power used to turn an electrical generating unit. Generators usually come sized in Watts capacity, which is the amount of electricity they can produce on a continuous basis. Some generators can produce only 120 volts AC, others 120/240 volts AC, and some smaller ones 120 AC and 12 DC for car battery charging and starting.
One needs to consider the desired usage carefully. If one wants to run a whole house, then one needs to get a unit sufficiently sized to handle the load. (If jeating and ariconditioning support are needed, then units of 10 kilowatts and more are required). Also, the means of delivery of power into the house need to be adressed. (In my case, we had an electrical contractor wire the house so that the generator can be switched in to replace the feed from the main).
Since the generator is motor driven, storing and providing a fuel supply is a serious consideration, including safe storage and handling of the fuel. In my personal case, my generator require 1/2 to 1 gallon per hour to provide lighting, heat, refrigerator and freezer support. Consider how much fuel you would need to provide to accomplish the power support you envision.
It is actually rather difficult to get more responsive until you describe your vision of what a generator will do for you. If you post more focused questions, I’ll be happy to try to provide you with the information you need.
My main concern is to provide enough electricity for the gas furnace to work as we have extremely long and cold winters, and for hot water.Sure, it would be great to power the whole house, but I’m afraid the cost of the unit, plus fuel and storage would be prohibitive.
I’ve started to research it a bit and I see some are powered by natural gas, but then you have to worry about disruption in natural gas service. We live in town and I’m sure there are regulations concerning storage of gasoline and propane.
Do you live in town and, if so, how do you store the fuel, and how much do you store?
If you have a generator powered by natural gas and the supply of natural gas is interrupted, then not only will your generator not run, but your gas furnace won’t run either.
The most reliable generators are diesel - but they are expensive and if it’s very cold, you may have problems with wax forming in the fuel lines. Propane or natural gas powered generators tend to come next (in price), then gasoline-powered generators.
You may well run into fuel storage problems, but if you’ve got a natural gas line outside (where you can run the generator) it may be that a natural gas-powered generator might be the best option for you. Is there a local generator supplier who could advise you?
Tjclaw1: I live out in the country, and have several sheds away from the house. I only store fuel in a shed well away from the house. I usually run about 35 gals of stored fuel, but for Y2K increased the load to about 70 gals. Since gasoline is not a long term storable item (it only lasts a years at most in storage, and then only if proper stabilizing additives have been added by me before storing). To keep the stock fresh, I ocassionally dump the stored gas into one of the cars and replace it. In summer, I run the tractor on it to cut my 4 acres of grass.
I would never recommend storing any flammable fuel in the house, the basement or in an attached garage. It is just too dangerous a prospect to put your family at risk.
I agree with Rupert. If a natural gas line is available outdoors, then that would be the safest approach (with a permanent generator installation done by professionals). Diesel is probably a little safer than gasoline, but, as Rupert pointed out, cold weather can be a real problem.
A co-worker of mine has a stand-by generator system installed including a buried propane tank that will run the whole system for many days.
If backup heat is a concern, perhaps a good kerosene heater as a standby item. But they also have issues with indoor pollutants and fire dangers.
Back up heat is my main concern for a short-term outage, and although our furnace is gas, it requires electricity to make it run. If we are without electricity for long, then such things as hot water and being able to bake and do laundry become a concern. I’m going to be looking to see if there are any generator dealers in our area and I agree natural gas is probably our best bet. I’ve been thinking about a Mr. Heater for backup emergency heat. We do occasionally get ice/snow storms that knock out our electricity.
What’s funny is that we live right on the river with a spillway behind our house and a hydro/plant directly across the river that powers the city street lights. Our home electricity is provided by a nuclear power plant 12 miles away though. Too bad I can’t harness some of that energy!
I ahve copied below a post by EOD from another thread titled “Last Use of the Service Industries” because it pertains directly to generators.
“Therw is one solution to the generator in the garage; ours is hooked up with a vent to the outside connected directly to the exhaust. That also helps with the noise level, much of the noise is trapped in the garage, what does come outside cannot be heard even on a still night from more than about 1 1/2 blocks away.
You can purchase flexible metal tubing made to use on vehicles or also for applications like this - I found it at a tractor supply shop but I believe they also carry it at some of the larger auto supply stores as well. I removed the muffler that came on the generator, took that with the O.D. of the vent pipe (2 1/2 if I recall) to a metal shop and they fabricated an adaptor for me. It is secured to the muffler with several 1/4-inch lag bolts, the pipe is secured to the adaptor with sheet metal screws. The exhaust pipe goes to a stainless steel vent that looks similar to one you would have for your clothes dryer, I think it was actually a vent for a hot water heater. There is an air gap of about 3/4 inch between the pipe and the vent, which I packed, with some of the rope like gasket material used on the doors of woodstoves. Ifve had this hooked up since fall of 1999 (you know the Y2K thingie lol) back then my mother, aunt & uncle went together and bought enough 10k generators for themselves and each of their children. Anyways, I have had this set up since 1999, have used the generator multiple times; I think the longest was for 4 days, with no problems what so ever. Even had a friend with the local fire dept stop by during that 4-day stretch with a carbon monoxide detector and there was no leakage into the house. Two cautions; (1) that metal exhaust pipe gets VERY hot (why regular metalic driver vent will not work), make sure to have it secured in different placed along its length and away from flamible objects, and (2) keep it as short & straight of a run as possible so as to minimize the restriction it places on the exhaust flow.”
Thanks Kim, I was just coming here to copy it myself :)
I have been wrestling with this topic as well. We need not only heat to run our oil-guzzling furnace, but more importantly to run our well! Can’t last long without water! We are prone to outages anyway (live in the woods!) but it usually doesn’t last more than 1/2 a day or so.
How long can a propane driven larger-sized generator run? I’m thinking of a stand-alone model that can go outside and kicks on automatically when power goes out. I could find gas-driven ones (portable ones) that said things like runs for 10 hours on half power.” That wouldn’t last long and requires gasoline runs. Also - if say you have a 10000W generator but only use 5000W - will it last twice as long?
Confusing!
Eccles: A quick question: what do the capacitors in the alternator do? Do they power the electromagnet in the alternator? The reason I ask is that one of my gensets has just suffered a reduction in voltage. (Better now than later). The rating on its caps are 14mF, but they meter at 10mF and 6.5mF. Could this be the cause? Cheers.
LauraB
I have a 15kw standby generator. According to the manual it will burn 1.5 gallons of propane per hour at half load. My propane tank is 350 gallons. It will hold approx 280 gallons as they never fill them all the way. I think to allow for expansion. If my tank is full it could possibly run for 186 hours. If I ran it 2hr/day it would last approx 90 days.
anonymous - Oy!
The capacitors do a fairly complicated dance in the induction type genset, which would take a whole lot more ‘splainin than I am prepared to do right now. The short story is that if they are indeed degraded, then the genset will put out low or no output voltage. But unless you were measuring them with equipment that measures the capacitance at the rated working voltage, I would mistrust your readings, especially if the capacitors were of the Aluminum electrolytic type.
The capacitors are also potentially used for voltage regulation, waveform correction, and power factor correction. I am not really up on the designs of the current consumer products, so I can’t answer authoritatively, but damaged capacitors would certainly give you undesired output levels.
Please rmember that any genset is capable of producing lethal voltages in ways you may not expect due to the induction motor design of the generator section. Unless you are qualified to work on such equipment, I urge you to let someone in the business of servicing your brand of genset do the work.
Eccles: Ta mate. I hear you. Cheers.(Lost my handle before)
tjclaw1: I think you might be setting yourself up for a shock here.
If tshtf, expect total disruption of utilities. It’s a given. Expecting that you will be able to run your furnace and hot water heater and do laundry and live life almost normally is a vulnurability. You will be in shock when these systems fail, as they probably will. Plus your generator noise will be a vulnerability when eventually those without start roaming the streets looking for those who have something to steal.
Not that having a generator isn’t a good idea. I installed one for Y2K and had an electrician install a separate subpanel to isolate me from the grid, and it will run enough circuits to run radios, recharge phones, batteries, and maybe cool down the fridge a while, but I’m not planning on depending on it long term. I’m also going to install a double muffler to quiet down the exhaust noise.
You will be cold, you will be dirty, you will not be able to bake bread. Your money may be better spent investing in a dozen or so sets of long underwear at K-Mart (nice to change when you can’t wash), plenty of baby wipes for the quick rubdown bath, and warm clothes. A tent and good sleeping bags in your living room can help ward off the cold. Get the double kind that zip together to share heat with your mate.
For those handy with tools and short on budget, you can build your own generator from an old lawn mower and GMC alternator (http://theepicenter.com/tow02077.html). And for inside heat, you might consider the catalytic camp heaters (e.g., http://www.coleman.com/coleman/ColemanCom/subcategory.asp?CategoryID=3000) that don’t release fumes into your home. You can buy adaptor fittings to run these off of 20-gal propane tanks or even a 350-gal propane tank installed in your yard.
I think we’re all going to have to make some major adaptations.
Does anyone know how long a can of butane lasts? I have a new (never used) butane stove for cooking indoors. Hopefully, it will keep the neighbors away when everyone’s propane runs out. :)
thinking ahead, I read on one of the other threads that a can of butane will give you around two hours of cooking time. Depends on your heat setting.
will temp close thread for traffic reasons; will reopen later.