I didn’t want this to get lost in other threads. It is important for the world to understand exactly why surveillance for H5N1 is so bad.
From As H5N1 Keeps Spreading, a Call to Release More Data
[snip]…Brown says he needs to hold on to the European sequences. “The staff in this institute is working 24/7 to provide this service,” he says “I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect…some reward for their endeavors.”
[snip]
Whether scientists fears of being scooped is justified is difficult to say. In theory, once sequences are posted in the public domain, anybody could write a paper about them. In practice, journal editors will ask manuscript authors to get permission if they write a paper about unpublished data they did not submit to GenBank themselves, says Caoline Ash, who edits infectious disease papers at Science. But Brown says he’d rather not take that risk.
The Brown referred to in the article above is Ian Brown, Lab Director at Weybridge. Wonder where the Turkish sequence data is? Ian Brown, aka The Worm of Weybridge, is supressing its release because he doesn’t want to take the very remote chance that someone else might figure out something important by looking at it and publish a paper before he does. Now, I don’t know Dr. Worm, I mean, Dr. Brown, so I don’t know if he is a sociopath, a petty fool, or both. I do know that his behaviour is putting all our lives at risk.
Dr. Worm, I mean, Dr. Brown wants a “reward” for performing a technical procedure, sequencing nucleotides, that most of us farm out to service cores or companies (who have no expectation of authorship). Well, Dr. Worm, I mean, Dr. Brown, you have earned a place in history one of the slimiest pieces of excrement ever to call themselves a scientist. Your “reward”? Well, I’ll have to reread The Inferno to decide what level of hell is appropriate for a scientist who puts his career ahead of the lives of millions of children.
Dr. Brown falls into the same catagory as countries that have not released their data as well. He is not alone in his appalling behavior. But I would hope he regains some form of his humanity and realizes he has a huge burden which he will carry for eternity if he continues his self serving behavior…
kick -I mean, bump.
That is disgusting! Perhaps when he and his loved ones are suffering and dying from H5N1 he will understand the need for sharing the information.
I believe the sequences are generated with public funds.
Knowledge democracy. Knowledge will always find a way back into the wild. “Stone walls do not a prison make, nor iron bars a cage.” Richard L.
who says, that your worm is planning to write a paper on the Turkey-sequences ? There is another argument, which you don’t mention: If Weybridge releases data, which the submitter doesn’t want to be released, they won’t submit to Weybridge at all in future. A lab. has to keep the results on the submitted samples confidential.
So the country is to blame, not Weybridge. It’s a bit like keeping outbreaks secret or refusing WHO-teams to enter.
Another example: A country could say: we have an outbreak of infectious desease and they give all details of involved people, but don’t say which desease. Would that be accepable ?
I’m waiting that some lab. offers rewards for submitted samples, if they only may release the sequences. I’m waiting for people submitting samples from found dead birds secretly to foreign labs.
His ‘reward’ is his paycheque. I’m sure he’s not donating his time. If this work is publicly funded (in the UK right?), can the goverment not force him to release the data?
wouldn’t it be illegal for a lab. in UK to release medical data of clients against their will ?
It is very simple. Any country who orders sequences kept secret at this stage are guilty of crimes against humanity. The world court or any court in their country should bring charges against all concerned. The penalty should be considered to be on a par with war criminals who were complicit in the holocaust. It has that potential at least. Enough is enough. Get on this our representatives to the United Nations! Get on this every level of our Government! Get on this the oh so silent press! Get on this everyone who reads this post! Write a letter to your local paper! Call your local news casters in your local TV station! Call your favorite Radio Talk show! Call the Daily Report! I am starting on these things Monday.
gs-
If you think it is safe, find a method for gathering the samples, locate some labs that will isolate and sequence and lets have some submissions to LosAlamos from FluWiki.
I’m sure that we have the expertise here, monotreme and crfullmoon with viralprotein (absent, but watching I hope) and tomDVM and JoeW. I believe that we could self-organize by writing a procedure, communicating with some labs, exchanging goodwill and internet exposure for lab services and get some useful data. The sequences are already all around us. We have readers in every country, I would imagine?
gs, I don’t know what the laws are concerning that in the UK. This appears to be a different set of cicumstances though. Brown is not saying “we cannot release the data because we are contractually obligated not to before our clients (the originating country)have given permission”. He has plainly stated that he is not releasing the data because …”he needs to hold on to the European sequences. “The staff in this institute is working 24/7 to provide this service,” he says “I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect…some reward for their endeavors…” This is greed plain and simple. Since this act is motivated by greed, the only thing I see as likely to make him change his mind is pressure from whoever ‘pays the bills’. If the work is publicly funded, that is the goverment. He needs to get hit where it hurts and quick.
dude: countries won’t send in data at all. They just won’t be examining suspect
cases and attribute human deaths to pneumonia or such and ignore
dead swans. Or they build their own laboratories and would ignore Weybridge.
NS1: I remember a Norwegian guide here recently, how to send in dead birds.
I assume you could send parts of the bird to 2 different labs for control.
MaMa:you know, when he had 2 arguments, he chose the one which serves
best at that time. And we don’t know how he was quoted. Maybe he didn’t
want the legal discussion about confidential results. Maybe the context
was about authorship, so he focussed on that.
Isn’t it funded by WHO ? “WHO-lab” I read, AFAIR.
gs- you could be right, hard to say at this point. I’m sure we’ll find out. I still find his comment reprehensible. I don’t know who(WHO?)funds the lab, I said if the work is publicly funded (in reference to niman’s post). They could be independant of WHO (as in not funded by), but still affiliated.
gs-
Collaborating animal specialist who understands the risk for resection of likely reservoir tissue. All work local and transportation private with minimum BL3 precautions as far as is within legal bounds.
Independent labs if they exist. If conditions do not allow for controls, tag the data as uncontrolled and proceed.
gs: You are incorrect. Weybridge has permission from the Turkish government to deposit the sequence data. If you read the entire article, you will clearly see that it is Dr. Brown’s decision to withold the data. As a result of Dr. Capua’s challenge, Dr. Brown has grudgingly agreed to deposit *one* of the Turkish sequences. He is witholding the rest until a paper is published with them. The Prime Minister of Turkey should raise hell with the WHO. Dr. Brown is endangering the lives of Turkish citizens, especially children, by delaying the release of the all of the sequences.
Yes, individual countries are breaking their agreements if they do not report H5N1 to OIE. Most countries can confirm H5 locally, but need to send it to a lab like Weybridge to confirm H5N1 and isolate the virus.
WHO has added powers beginning Jan 1, 2006 for investigating diseases that can cross national borders and investigations should include both the sequences and isolates. All member nations (which I believe are all members in the UN) have signed off on the new enforcement powers and WHO seems to have jaw-boned some Middle Eastern countries adjacent to Turkey to send samples to Weybridge (or Italy / France).
I don’t see the release of sequence data as making or breaking any deal (although WHO could make sequence release a requirement for any assitance).
WHO has no defensible position. They just want to control the data.
mono,I can’t access the paper. Why doesn’t Turkey publish the sequences then ? Should we write to Turkey and ask for it ?
I agree with Dr. Niman. Since the countries that have sent virus to Weybridege have already admitted they have bird flu in their country, why would they want to block sequence access to thousands scientists who might help them? The sequences are available to 15 labs, so any bad news will not be secure. The only reason for the Club of Worms is control by the WHO. Shame on anyone who agrees to continue with this Crime aganist Humanity.
“Crime aganist Humanity”
You can say that again.
gs: I’m not sure the Prime Minister in Turkey is completely aware of the games the WHO is playing with them. I think it would be great if Turkish citizens, especially, were to lobby their government to apply pressure on the WHO to release the sequences. Other countries with H5N1 infections should not send their samples to the Worm of Weybridge, who will sit on the data until papers are published. Instead, they should send their sequences to Ilaria Capua of the Istituto Zooprofilattico Sperimentale delle Venezie in Italy who will promptly make the sequences available to the world’s scientists. Sending virus to Weybridge is dangerous to the health of citizens of countries with bird flu.
just divide the sample and send it to both :-) Are you saying, Turkey itself doesn’t know their own sequences ??
I don’t know what Turkey knows. I also don’t know what they had to agree to get their Tamiflu blanket. Clearly the secret backroom deals concerning samples and sequences need to be exposed to the light of day. Dr. Capua has started this process.
Turkey has been forthcoming to my way of thinking, unlike China, which I regard as the originator of this mess. We don’t understand the complexities of Turkish politics. Perhaps Oric does. Otherwise you can write to the Consulate in NYC, or to their Embassy in Washington D.C., don’t know the protocals, but just find out how to address their Ambassador, and his name, rather than a general Dear Ambassador. Have an Irish Band concert in a few minutes, so don’t have time to research it properly.
Older thread, closing for speed purposes.
check dates