The other string was so long!
did anyone notice the small story on page one of the Syd Morn Health today regarding wearing mask if you have the ‘normal’ flu this year. It was an indication that the govt from a communications perspective is trying to raise our awareness without panicking us. The slow drip affect is now at work. any other feelings about the Aus and NZ media treatment of BF??
make that Herald not health!
Here is the link regarding the NZ Govt discussing preparations for pandemic the info campaign starts tonight on NZ TV - wondering when ours will be coming in Aus?
Dear Friends:
I must have expressed myself very poorly—I have NO criticism of masks, wearing masks, being seen in masks! SORRY.
I merely IMHO expressed concern that they should adequately protect the WEARER as well as our beloved fellow-citizens.
An N-95 will do both. A standard SURGICAL mask will NOT.
Before you leap onto your keyboards, do yourselves a favour. Read the prior threads on masks, types, qualities posted on this Forum—as I have.
And kindly address your ensueing comments to the attention of each other. I have other prep and information concerns. I’ve been over that ground and there is SO much yet to learn.
The SMH quoted a doctor/public health official who said they didn’t want to scare people, which the sight of masks would surely do.
There’s really no response to this.
NPB - I saw that story about the NZ govt info campaign. I think the NZ’ers are _way_ ahead of the Aussies on this one.
And Nikolai, I’ve read alot of the mask info and I’m with you - if we’re going to do the mask-wearing thing, let’s get the real ones on. I only hope there’ll be some kind of medicare rebate on them. (geez I ask for alot!)
Nikolai—Sydney – at 03:58 And kindly address your ensueing comments to the attention of each other. I have other prep and information concerns. I’ve been over that ground and there is SO much yet to learn.
Sorry Nikolai, I didnt realise that this thread was for subjects and information only of concern and interest to you!
< slight shrug >
Getting on with the news in our part of the world: Have you seen
“Australian health officials have warned against people stockpiling foods to prepare for bird flu following statements by a senior US official, which risks causing panic in America. … Australian government officials said the comments were premature and could lead to panic buying.”
<snip>
“RMIT virologist Greg Tannock said it was too early to tell people to stock up on emergency food supplies…before H2H identified…”
<snip>
“Yesterday Chief Medical Officer John Hovath said the US warning was premature and unnecessary.”
“Herald Sun” on-line, 16 March 06
Comment: So, shall we just all relax and enjoy The Games?
I tried posting last night but it wouldn’t go through - apparently problems are fixed now.
Anyway, my feeling is that they’re trying to avoid any kind of emergency or panic during the games. It’ll be interesting to see if the theme changes after they’re over…
Anyone else see this story about a cruise ship (currently in WA, was in Tas and SA) that has an influenza outbreak?
hadnt seen that one..interesting.
Thanks Azi I agree it will be interesting to see how they go after the Games. I am extrem interested in how the media are handling BF and noted an article in the Australian by a media professional that looked into the area - will find posting ASAP. As for dont buy to avoid panic buying I am relaxed and comfortable with my tuna cans and iraqi blood wheat products!
I’m comfortable with my braised steak and onions and kilos of rice too :-)
So, does anyone have any amazing ANZAC specials for this week like the 40c tins of tomatos last week?
SPECIALS currently at COLES:
“SAVINGS” brand is No-Name, Generic at Coles. Sardines, in oil or in tomato sauce, 0.53 each; Baked Beans in tom. sauce, 400g, 0.35 each; Pineapple pieces, very cheap; Spaghetti in Tom. sauce very very low cents…
I figure a can each of sardines, pineapple, spaghetti and beans less than two dollars, and with rice, quite a lot of food…
Wish I kept the dockets, but a neighbour uses them for the petrol discount…and he sometimes gives me lifts!
Dockets???????
Electronic cash register printouts, with name of item, weight, price, sales tax indication… Could be a localism here in West Sydney? Who knows.
I just recently figured out what a fender is, or a hood, or ‘in the trunk’ or windshield or gas… English is ‘all over the place’ as Chinese friend says, pun intended.
I wasn’t sure whether it was the receipt or the advertisement. Your docket is a bill or tab here. Unpleasant by any name!
Corky 52:
Ha-ha. No harm, no criticism…but I see people post this way often and it amuses me…and piques my curiosity!
Is there some city or country named “Here”? Is your “here” the same or different? Perth? Tokyo? Delhi? Not knowing, the expression ‘bill of tab’ won’t be useful to me for communicating.
And I know communication is something of interest to you from your SEVEN question marks (interrogation marks?) <grin>
grocery “receipt” is probably mroe often used in the States. A “tab” usually refers to the bill/receipt from a restaurant or bar. :)
Interesting. They say 99% of the words in a big dictionary are common to the entire English speaking world…BUT…the devil is in the little, everyday words that emerged in each region, without coordination!
The motor car was everywhere before much written about what to call the parts—that’s a good example.
Contrast is the looming pandemic threat—on that there has been widespread and immediate communication…
actually its me…Sandi. But someone i know spotted my name on a post here and is tormenting me about prepping. I would however like to know why he was here in the first place!! Anyways…Sandi is now Woodstock for any that care :)
Woodstock:
Yes, a balancing act for each of us. I chose to identify myself and location, though many posters are defensive about doing so for fear of being raided later. I have a sign made to put on my door in case of that:
THERE WAS TOO LITTLE…AND YOU’RE TOO LATE.
Nikolai,
Here is about ten miles east of San Diego, California U.S.A..
Thanks Nikolai - I don’t have a Coles nearby but am heading out this morning to trade in my car, will call past one on the way home.
Woodstock, I understand why you choose to cover your identity, I do the same thing. Have already seen one of my online nicks quoted in the daily paper here (on a totally different issue to this), very glad it wasn’t my real name.
aziraphale:
Don’t do it! I know we’re all worried, but do you think it’s so close you need to get rid of your car to buy sardines at Coles!!??
<<okay, so I’m kidding>
<AREN’T I??>
Yikes..i wouldnt like that at all!
Azi interested to find out what they quoted you on?? hope I dont see NotParanoidBut quoted about anything now I am paranoid!
NPB - it was comments on changes to the public transport system here in WA, nothing to do with pandemic or imminent disaster! Still, it was a bit weird and as I said, I am very glad I don’t use my actual name to log into forums.
Nikola - nope, didn’t swap the car for sardines! Traded my 4×4 for a ute (translation for American readers - traded my SUV for a pickup) and I’m very pleased with it. Nothing to do with pandemic though I can fit more cans of sardines in the ute… ;-)
what is it with men and utes??? ;)
Further stocks of Tamiflu will be available thru NZ pharmacies next week.
The Pharmaceutical Society of NZ has sent an e-mail to pharmacists to clear up some confusion about how long a prescription is valid for. A prescription for an unfunded medicine is valid for 6mths.
It’s the gun rack in the back window!
aziraphale: could i trouble you for that place in australia that sells the o2 absorbers again? Damned if i can find your last post about it..sorry
Hey Woodstock - men and utes - I’m a girl (should probably say “chick” being a ute-owner now!)
The place that (I’m told) can provide O2 absorbers is:
Nutrimed Ph: (02) 9693 1911 Unit 6, 10 Bradford St Alexandria, NSW 2015 Australia
Corky52:
‘Here’ sounds really great! North to LA, south to Tiajuana, west to the ocean and east into the mountains! You are just in holiday paradise!
Good luck, Mate! Prep to keep it great!
Azi: well that’ll learn me for making assumptions! My apologies and thanks for the info :)
Doldrums - does that mean kiwis can simply get tamiflu now if they have a script? the aus govt has it all locked down so this is a differing approach
Hi everyone…………just new to this site and have just started preparations………….have a long way to go………..but not sure how much time I have.
Hiya Jenny1967. Welcome! You’re an australian or nz’er?? Just curious…not racist!! ;)
Hi Jenny welcome to the site - some of us are very prepared and now going into 12 mth supplies from what i hear- others are new some like myself have been watching and analysing and grabbing the odd can of tuna to stash - I am now gradually ramping up my supplies have basic medical items, P2 maks, basic food stock but only prob a months worth so I really need to ramp it up. how many supplies do you have now? I also wonder about how much time we have as well - keep an eye on the news daily and try to add to my kit daily as well even if it is only a few items. It does take the worry away when you know you have at least started!
Jenny - I’m up to about a month’s worth of dry and canned goods to feed the family - could probably stretch it to 6 weeks if needed. Also in the basement is a small stack of 25 ltr water containers. Until I see any real ramp-up in B2H or H2H I won’t add significantly to the stores, but I do have a comprehensive list of food and supplies required (by store) for a 3-month period. A few hours of shopping will be enough to tick off the entire list, if that day comes.
Hi……..I am from Australia, Victoria……..I have also ordered P2 masks (box of 20) from a supplier in Queensland www.Bestbirdflumasks.com at a cost of $56 and $10 postage. I have managed to put away so far: My first week:
20 kgs rice 12 kgs sugar 12 kgs spaghetti (uncooked) 12 x tins of steak and vegetables 8 litres bleach 300 metres gladwrap 60 metres foil 3 x 500g bags pearl barley 12 x tubes toothpaste 12 x 1 litre longlife milk feminim hygiene to last 6 months, 48 rolls toilet paper,
and there is so much more to buy………but all that alone cost me over $200…….i am getting panicky as my funds don’t allow for me to buy everything I need and I think I may run out of time.
Also forgot to mention that I have two 25 litre containers for water and about 10 x 20 litre plastic drums for storing flour and rice etc.
Jenny1967 you seem to have achieved a whole lot in a little time - well done. re the $$ I know what you mean its hard when you are on a budget - but just do what you can do can by can! bit by bit
I have also bought gas cylinders for my camping stove…..about 25 small ones. I live in the country and we are on bottled gas………which in this case is a blessing…..I am going to order two spare bottles just for cooking and hot water……and when the time comes I will disconect them everynight and reconect daily as I can imagine that many people would trying to steal gas bottles. Any helpful hints would be appreciated as I am new, but spend hours daily pouring over all the facts.
NE - where did you get the large water storage containers and how much were they I am in need of this type of item thanks
NPB - You can pick up 25 litre plastic containers with taps from Bunnings. I have 4, which would only see us through a few days. Scouting around the local camping stores I have identified 60 liter barrels as well - they are on my D-Day shopping list.
Hey Jenny - you’re doing well! If you’re in the country you may not be able to purchase foods as cheaply as in the city, depends how big your town is and what the stores there are like. At least you’re on bottled gas though! Don’t suppose you have an alternate water source there - a dam, soak or rain water tanks?
NME - how much are the 25 litre containers from Bunnings? I’ve only seen smaller (less than 15 litre) ones in the surplus/camping stores here but hadn’t looked in Bunnings for them.
Thanks for sharing, all! We each thrive on the encouragement of knowing others, too, are aware, concerned, preparing for the possibility. Be awfully lonely without this safe but friendly meeting place!
I’m on west side of Sydney, just next to the Blue Mountains. Retired, families grown and scattered worldwide, so I only have to provide for one—which I find quite enough as an aged pensioner.
Azira - Only other alternate water source is an aquaduct used for irrigation about 1 km away. I could use that…..how do I get the water to a drinkable standard? I read somewhere that I can use bleach or chlorine or maybe tablets? What do others think……which is the preferred method?
Azira - I bought the containers a few weeks ago, can’t recall the price. Have a look in your local store. Water storage in general is a worry - containers are expensive and space consuming, and you’d need lots to last a month or more.
Jenny - yes, you can use bleach to treat the water. If you search here you should find the formula I recall it used American measures though - eg: 4 drops per gallon, I have no idea how many litres in a gallon though? Make sure you use unscented bleach!
NME - I have a rainwater tank which can provide water for me for a long time. I’m interested in putting a large container of water in my new ute though (see posts earlier today!) which is why I ask - I’ll drop into Bunnings next week and have a look round.
Depending on the price of these larger containers, it may well be more cost-effective for people to install even a small rainwater tank, you can get 1000 litre ones for a couple of hundred dollars, and if nothing transpires at least you now have rainwater for drinking (or watering the garden or whatever).
Nikolai, it’s been many years since I was in Sydney but I did go camping in the Blue Mountains a couple of times and my recollection is that it was semi-rural, is it still like that or is it more suburban? Just thinking that might be an area where you can more easily quarantine yourself, or is it somewhere that the city-dwellers will head towards?
You are now added to a new page whose intent is to organize the forum threads:
Add a new link when you’re ready to move to Australia-NZ 5.
Jenny,
Just had a look at your recommended mask supplier, they seem expensive and their site is managed out of the US (only mention that because everytime I have ordered online through the US, I never got my order).
Try these guys as well http://www.bulkarasolutions.com.au/ they are Australian suppliers.
Re getting your preps together, take it slowly and manage your finances at pace. I have seen alot of people get into a tail spin, loose control and end up in trouble financially. Rememeber this thing has been going on for a while now, it may go pandemic or it may not.
My advice - start preps with things that you will use regardless and dont take up to much room(batteries, torches, facial tissues, anti- bacterial hand wash etc), the one exception is Personal Protection Equipment, which will be hard to come by if TSHF.
Aziraphale—re Blue Mts refuge option:
Forget it! If things go truly sour, a ‘million’ people will ‘head west’ to where it’s supposedly safer! (Not to mention those going ‘up the coast where it’ll be safer’…or toward the South Coast,’where it’ll….!’)
I’ll just shelter in place, ‘where it will be safer…!’
LOLOL
Thanks Nikolai, that’s what I thought would happen. I’m in a similar area (though on the other coast to you!) and wondering whether alot of people will head this way - I think they will too. Time to get a really big dog!
I may be just an aging hippy that knows no better..so please dont laugh…but: if/when TSHTF i think *some* places might have probs, but i suspect that a lot of people will be too scared of being infected and/or be too sick to cause much trouble. Also here in Oz and NZ we have the distinct advantage of not having widespread firearm ownership. Yes i know that the crooks do…but its not a case of having every home armed and I really think most folk once they see what will happen in a panic, may well behave as rational humans as much as possible. You may all call me an idiot idealist now…i will go listen to my Dylan cd’s ;)
Woodstock – at 21:03
I would like to think that your correct, but having watched what happened with hurricane Katrina, I am not that sure. In my case, I am lucky enough to have as neighbors six senior officers of the SAS and judging by what their kids tell my kids they each have a full arsenal at home of all of the SAS weapons.
So if TSHF I am hoping that that they will be keen to keep their immediate surrounds safe.
i have no doubt that there will be more trouble in places like the US as so many appear to be armed…however here in Oz i believe we have a different way of dealing with things. The Katrina effect was an american phenomena i feel. I hope i’m right anyways…but it sure wouldnt be the first time if i’m not ;)
Just as a bad comparasin to Katrina: Look how we respond during huge bushfire outbreaks? I can remember people standing outside their cars in the city calling out to stranded commuters their destination so others could get home when the train tracks buckled in the heat. I remember some firefighters coming in for their lunch at a local foodcourt….and the entire packed area moved away so the fire fighters could be served before the rest of us. I just dont see australians and new zealanders resorting to violence easily. Hope i’m right.
Woodstock and AussieOne, I hope you’re right. Of course people see the firies as protecting them (or people they know) from danger, a pandemic won’t be the same situation. Maybe that’s a safe profession to be in for TSHTF?
hhehe yeah maybe! Maybe i just have more faith in us down here…but i just dont see a Mad Max situation erupting in oz
I read with interest—not somethng I’ve realised, myself, the danger of actual disorder. I guess I think it would evolve gradually, as the problem went on and shelves got emptier..?
Luckily, our government is stressing first priority is to keep the utilities going, which should keep most people at home or close. Then I guess groceries, etc could get ugly.
Hmmm. Thanks for the thoughts…
It is a disturbing thought. People in the cities assume that people in the rural or semi rural areas have ample food - grow their own vegies, slaughter their own stock, grind their own wheat; plenty of water - dams, soaks, rain tanks; and room to get away from the spread of virus in the city. The reality is that most farmers (in cooee of me anyways) grow wheat and sheep but don’t have the ability or equipment to turn either of these into “food” as you and I would think of it. Their water supplies are generally low and they will protect those, plus if you’re not used to drinking untreated dam water your body will be in for a bit of a surprise until you are. Many don’t even have a vegie garden or a few chooks any longer. People may come to the outer areas, but will still starve and thirst.
The few old-time farmers living in my area all have rifles too, there’s no way I’d go to their houses uninvited in a pandemic and I know them!
But I am concerned that there could be an influx of people who will make themselves unwelcome and that could lead to an extremely ugly situation :-(
I am with the charming Woodstock wikian - I hope and think that we are more civilised in Aus than the US so we might not have the same civil unrest. Lets hope so… by the way I bought a dog today (totally unrelated! but he could be a good guard dog if need be!) now i have to start prepping for him too - its neverending
Good on you getting a dog NPB :-) I’m sure he’ll be worth the preps. Don’t forget you’ll need to increase your water supply to cover him.
Thanks Azi actually glad you mentioned water this is the most important area of prepping but one i still havent got covered i know i can buy the water in large quants from shops or just buy the contaners and hope i have enough time to fill them but its more $ and space - any sensible way through this one? any advice gladly taken i have read sooo much now have Analysis Paralysis!
http://tinyurl.com/m4wyt Friends in Australia - Just read about your cyclone. I hope none of you were near that. I wish no one was. Is everyone all right?
all fine here in sydney..thanks for your concern tho! I dont think there has been too much human damage as yet. Property only at this point as i understand it.
Went to a local pharmacist today and asked about BF preparation to pharmacists as key stakeholders and he said he had been sent one BF video by the govt and pharmacists as a whole have been left out of the loop in terms of communication and pandemic planning.
He has his own supply of tamiflu and intends on running the shop alone to help others masked up of course. He sold lots of stock some months ago but now it is all tied up an unvail to general public.
He feels govt have done little to share info with them and is stocking his own masks etc because he believes its a reality Interesting such a large group have been left out of the picture he reckons that undertakers and electricity workers are much better informed now than gps and pharmacists. Any other pharmacists out there that can confirm or dispute this???
Back again rang the national body for funeral directors in Australia and yes they have been working with Fed govt partic around the issue of funeral workers being not at work and that issue in itself. They referred me to http://www.health.gov.au/internet/wcms/Publishing.nsf/Content/phd-pandemic-plan.htm which is what they have referred all members to you have probably seen this govt site already but if not worth looking at So.. now it looks like you may not be even able to get buried! looking messier by the minute!
Interpreting the ‘Katrina phenomenon’ may be tricky for the Yanks, and treacherous for us if we mislead ourselves, IMO.
The percentage of 500 000 people who looted, raped, stole was actually not high. As we know from everyday tv, it only takes 20–25 ‘demonstrators’ to fill the screen and look like a huge movement against…Lucas Heights, Sheep ships, etc.
I love to feel we will not have as much ‘opportunistic’ riot and looting as NO, but we must consider ‘desperation’ factor. I mean people arriving at the hospital to find it closed, full-up! No food, no water, kids dying…? Where is the ‘neat, tidy little island’ concept I cherish at that point?
Hate this posting of mine. When will I learn to just read selectively and not get myself upset. <semi-grin>
I agree with AussieOne about preppng slowly but surely . When i went to chemist today they said the thing everyone will need is a good surgical handwash i bought one called Microshield 4 - chlorhexidine surg handwash. He reckons that will sell out big time 500ml for $19 not cheap but useful this was soul pattersons chemist so imagining they have it in all the big ones out there. The supermarkets sell cheaper antibacterial ones but i dont think they would be as efficient. any thoughts on that out there?partic from med community?
NotParanoidBut – at 22:49
Another issue re deaths is not just burial but certification of death.
Imagine this pandemic having the affect of many thousands dead. The law is that a body cannot be buried without a doctor certified certificate of death. Now imagine that the doctors are either dead, ill or caring for the sick and way to busy to certify.
Laws need to be passed now that in the above mentioned event that morticians and funeral home directors be given that authority.
Re - Anti-Bacterial Hand Wash
The active ingrediant of the Palmolive Anti-Bacterial Hand Wash is DMDM Hydantoin 2.0 mg/mL / Triclosan 2.0 mg/mL. 750 bottle. This is the supermarket product.
We should compare with what your one contains NotParanoidBut.
hi aussie one chorhexidine gluconate 4% w/v not sure what it all means!? (that was the only one mentioned)
by the way on 702 abc right now radio they are discussing viruses not just avian but the whole lot fascinating stuff
I got two lots of Tamiflu today for children from a pharmacy (the last they had) i nearly fell over tho that some pharmacies still have it so if you dont have yours yet (this one had none at all for adults) its worth asking the question no matter how mad you might seem these were $52 a pop - syrup for kids cheap i thought! and no he doesnt have anymore left but ask around! its not useless --- yet
Thanks NPB, will try my local and see how I go.
Has anyone gotten their Flu Vax shots yet - $23.95 per shot. I purchased on the weekend from my chemist for the entire family, you can buy it and return with the script within a week.
yes what is the validity if at all re flu shots in relation to avian flu? i think i should get one of these myself just in case AussieOne good luck with getting tamiflu you might get lucky too
Bird flu diagnosis training stepped up
Monday, 20/03/2006
The CSIRO is training Department of Agriculture staff in every state and territory to improve the nation’s ability to diagnose a bird flu outbreak.
An avian virologist at the agency’s laboratory in Victoria, Paul Selleck, says because many Asian poultry flocks are vaccinated, symptoms are masked, making the virus difficult to detect.
In Australia though, the disease should be easier to detect, because birds aren’t vaccinated.
“In chickens we see swollen heads, excessive expulsion of liquid through the mouth,” he said.
“They also become depressed, and you start to see haemorrhages on the unfeathered parts of the skin such as the feet.
“In ducks there’s a range of clinical signs that you see depending on the age of the duck, the species, but you can see everything from unapparent infection, that is no clinical disease, through to very high mortality.”
i bought surgical scrub at the local pharmacy for $12 700ml…that would be good as the microshield one yes? Its just a plain pack…
NotParanoidBut – at 00:12 yes what is the validity if at all re flu shots in relation to avian flu
My understanding is that it will help and god knows we need as much help as is possible.
Speak to your phamacist.
yes sounds fine re the microshield.
love the blurb about CSIRO identifying “depressed” chickens! images of them having a beer or three, taking antidepressants and reading Self-Help books from new age bookshops abound…
Woodstock – at 00:15
What is the active ingrediant?
chorhexidine gluconate 4% but was 500 not 700ml as i thought
Ok woodstocks has the same ingredient and the same amount for $9 cheaper than me SHIT!
ok its $7 cheaper (bad maths!) but still pissin me off!
was an Amcal Pharmacy i got it from, and just called chorhexidine surgical scrub 4% Sorry to piss u off with this!! If it makes you feel any better, i just spent a crapload this past few months including things like flour pasta etc etc..only to discover today it looks like my husband has Coeliac disease!! DOH!
ooh perhaps we can have fluwikian swap club ie “I stocked up on dairy to find out my wife is now allergic - willing to swap for two bags of flour from newly diagnosed Coeliac” this could work! all our mistakes out like dirty laundry!
Sounds like a reasonable idea actually! (the swap club that is).
LOL! I love this forum :) I was feeling so sorry for my husband…(and me coz i do all the cooking!) and you just cheered me right up :)
I sometimes start wondering whether this small group on the Wiki (of Australian/NZ that is) could possibly be the only people prepping? I know it seems unlikely but I know NOONE outside of here who admits to prepping or even taking Panflu seriously as a threat, no matter how remote.
I have about $1000 worth of stuff ranging from food supplies to OTC meds and surgical hand wash and masks. I have no prescription meds, because the doctor won’t prescribe them, but I take solace in the fact that the pharmacy wouldn’t dispense them even if I had a script (well Tamiflu anyway).
I am finding it increasingly hard to ‘maintain the rage’ as it were. I find the Governments here both federal and state (NSW) seem utterly equivocal about the risks and the need for the public to do anything. I mean, you have documents like the one linked above but this document is not being followed through in the community. SO if the TSHTF we will have lots of people who were told not to stockpile and who will genuinely expect the Govt to look after them totally.
These thoughts are not very ordered…. I am also having trouble imaging civil unrest in my local community. Preparing for and planning for it are almost in my psychic too hard basket.
But I am grateful for the Wiki and the information on it!
Ms J: I hear you. I live in an apartment complex in the inner west. God knows what will happen if tshtf. i just keep preppin’ and prayin’ :)
I’m wondering, when you say that you have a hard time picturing civil unrest in your local communities, I keep picturing the beach/racial riots in Oz from a few months ago. The BBC made them seem pretty serious. Now what if those same crowds get worried, get desperate, or see an opportunity to take advantage of an overstressed system?
they really are the vocal few morons. i have more faith in joe average australian than to behave like those drongos.
I agree with Woodstock (I’m in the inner east BTW!! In an apartment). Although there may well be a bit of social unrest out Macquarie fields way - or in any housing commission area where the idea tends to be that the Govt will carry you all the way.
No flames please. I may be feeling a little uncharitable towards the dwellers of housig estates as I was walking through the Woolloomooloo one the other day on the way to pick my daughter up from pre school when I was stopped by some fairly unsavoury types who ‘asked’ for money.
But the shire riots were pretty unusual.
On the matter of civil unrest let me put some very real scenarios to you….. I am not being inflammatory just a realist and if anyone honestly thinks that in a 3 month quarantine period that nothing will happen - well……
1. After the initial panic that a pandemic has started and the shop shelves are empty, the government says that your suburb is to be quarantined because of the high number of infections within it. Those that can’t afford to buy bulk food, are too ill or were to slow to react are now without the basics from soap, tampons, toilet paper to meat, fruit and vegetables. There are several other suburbs like yours being quarantined in Sydney, Melbourne etc not to mention regional locations and the country towns are now self quarantined in order to protect themselves.
2. The hospitals are overcome with cases and your doctor knowing how dangerous all of this is to him and his family has ceased seeing patients. Your son and/or husband are now very sick and bringing up blood when he coughs. The hospitals have closed their doors and you are desperate to save them.
3. You have enough food for 4 weeks but you are now at the end of your food supply. Because of the high number of staff reporting in sick or are caring for the sick the truck drivers are not delivery food to your supermarket and that is if it was staffed anyway. The electricity is off in your suburb due to a fault that would normally be repaired within two minutes of it occurring, anyway the local cash machine has not been filled for weeks and credit cards don’t work because the banks are working on skeleton staff levels.
Now multiply this by up to 50% of Australias population 10,000,000 (this is most governments estimation of those that will be sick or caring for the sick) and you will get the picture.
Ms J:
I’m in Penrith, far west of Sydney, and like everybody, I have a ‘position’ part reason, part hope, part need to believe…that civil disorder will not be extreme toward home/apartment dwellers.
Think inside ‘their’ shoes…what do they want, where is it? It’s where it always has been, all their lives! ‘It’ is in liquor stores, fast food shops, groceries, banks’ ATM’s, chemist’s, jewellery shops, hospitals, clinics, clothing stores, car dealerships, home appliance stores etc. etc!!
And then they’ll fight each other for it, and for the hell of it. And the police and soldiers will fight them and then the pandemic will fight the winners on the streets.
Does anybody so overrate their apartment block/house so highly that Harvey Norman will be ignored in favour of your or my flat? Let’s just lie low, be inconspicuous—no more lights through windows at night…cover with a blanket, etc.
No savoury smelling cooking…heat water for instant soup, rice,cook odourless things. Heat braised-steak-and-onions tin in a pan of boiling water, but UNopened until ready to eat.
Think it through. Get cunning. We can ALL MAKE IT.
Keep the faith.
Nikolai---Sydney – at 04:39
And the police and soldiers will fight them and then the pandemic will fight the winners on the streets.
50% of the police and soldiers!
And when the shops are empty????
There are two sides to every coin and lots of things in life have that bilateral aspect. The scenario you presented up above could only too possibly develop as the case.
Possibly could—and to one degree or another surely will— but it is also POSSIBLE the virus will not transmit so very easily H2H…OR possibly be not so lethal, so that public utilities can keep operating and some re-supply be possible because enough would be willing to come to work, and the hospitals, however severely stressed, remain operational and POSSIBLY then CSL will come through with enough vaccines to turn the tide…
And, yes, I and everyone else must grant…possibly NOT. There was no arguing with the Black Death in 1347–1349 in Europe (and before that in Asia…). I have no quarrel with you, AussieOne. Nor you with me. Just a discussion.
In the face of this immensity, what are we either or both?
Ms J: Leichhardt here…can i ask where u are?
Nice scenarios, Aussie one. This doctor who stays home with his family will be the same one who assured me I didn’t need Tamiflu or Pneumovax.
Gah.
Nikolai, thanks, good points as usual. You were round for the 57 and 68 ones - any notes? I was round for 68 but came through…..
Jenny: try putting a chain and padlock through the handles on the gas bottles and fixing that to your(?) house. Saw an add somewhere today from Davey pumps doing a UV sterilising device for water. Any interest I’ll track it down. Also on water, think about plastic water tanks. Even 500 gallons (4 + half Litre to a gallon) you can get 4 foot tall 1 foot wide ones that are ‘slimline’ to go next to your house but they could just as easily sit in a flat in a hallway or 3rd bedroom. Again any interest I’ll get details. Cheers.
Are any of you folks near the cyclone? If you are my heart goes out to you. We here in Florida are getting ready for our turn. Good luck and God bless.
I’m well away from the cyclone, but also concerned for the people in the thick of it - the photos look terrible :-(
hi everyone………….how many are there of us at wiki prepping that are oz? is it a mere handful or a dozen or so?
I am surrounded by people that don’t think birdflu will be an issue………..wondering if anyone else feels they are doing the right thing when they read these posts but have second thoughts when talking to other individuals in the public? I seem to sway from belief that it will happen……..to maybe I am overreacting……then back to uh oh………panic…….I still have such a long way to go with my preps and not much in the way of funds. I am also a single mum and work part time…….I have 2 boys, one is a special needs son and goes to a special school 2 days a week…hence my limited ability to earn enough to prep as much as I would like to. i have made the decision that I will quit work when BF hits, but not sure how long government would pay sole parent pension. I already get half pension, but surely this would stop as I don’t see the economy would be strong enough to keep paying recipients. Aussie dad…….thankyou for the post on water pumps…….we actually have a supplier here in town…………I need to look into it, but again, funds are a huge problem.
Question about chain and padlock for gas bottle……..if i was to purchase the thickest chain possible, would it still be able to be cut with bolt cutters? thanks
Stay in their jenny67, I too waiver from “Is this insanity” to “quick better stash more tuna”. I also have children and they are my major concern. I have discussed BF now with some family members who think I am on a Y2K flashback so not much action there. Can you rally together with other single mums to buy different items and share them if need be? this is where “community” really is very important. best wishes.
Thought you guys/gals might be interested in the attached document released by WHO last week.
Dont know if it has been dropped into the general threads of Flu Wiki but it makes for interesting reading.
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/guidelines/fluprotocol_17.03.pdf
Hi Jenny. You’ve already got your work cut out for you haven’t you. Generally speaking, (imo) most would-be gas thieves would have the 2 foot long red chinese bolt cutters that would NOT cut the biggest chain you could get at the hardware. That said have a look at the hardware and ask the chap what they cut their biggest chain with..see how big the bolt cutters are. Likely they’re 3 foot long and very expensive…Also think about disguising the bottles with an enclosure (well vented) of some sort and/or thick fast growing bush..also the padlock needs to be decent with a hardened shank. Chat to your mister minute bloke or locksmith, they will have second hand stuff half the cost of new. Ask around before you buy. Likely some friend of a friend has exactly what you need lying in a shed somewhere, free to good home. the padlock if ist name brand can have a key made for it so collect as many as you can.even without keys…op shops, salvo’s etc. Hope this helps. Cheers.
Thanks notparanoidbut……I have talked to many other single mums and they dont want to know………oh they politely listen, then the subject quickly moves on to something else. I am fairly isolated as far as townspeople go, (not been here long) and don’t know too may people except my neighbours who now think I am a bit delusional. I am prepared to bunker down with my two boys…….and have thought out a plan, even down to where i will plant my veggie garden…….I am so grateful for this forum, no partner to voice my fears or concerns to …….good to relate that everything i am thinking and feeling is normal, whatever normal is. i get on here every night and read, read, read………helps me to not feel so isolated.
Thanks Aussie dad…….I will look tomorrow at the op shops…..and yes, i will also try to disguise the gas bottles………
Also on Govt. payments. IMHO I think that if the ballon goes up the DSS will be directed to do everything possible to maintain benefits. The alternative would be a LOT of angry and hungry people. Just dont bank on it to buy food with. Buy rice etc. Treat it as cyclone preps, or are you Vic? try tornadoes. They happen there sometimes..Cheery eh?
there are cutter resistant chains available for securing motorcycles etc that will defeat all but most determined thief - soft steel chain from hardware store is mostly psychological barrier methinks.
Might be easier to move bottles inside if necessary.
I have decided not to speak about my preparations openly with friend or workmates - have spoken to family but unsure how seriously they take it. Most people are unwilling to think the unthinkable. I do not personally know of anybody else who has stocked antivirals or is preparing for possible isolation.
I have recently been reading a biography of Captain Cook, fascinating generally - but on element that struck me was the almost casual acceptance of loss of life through disease. He lost three children in their infancy and this would have been more the rule than the exception in the 18th and 19th centuries. I wonder at the psychological impact of a pandemic on our society who is so unused to untimely death now.
(Good luck to any affected by cyclone Larry. And I hope Wati goes away.)
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