A thread for those of us with kids who are not yet “Ready To Launch.”
Have any of you with older teens (16 & up) and college age young adults who are still considered “at-home kids” considered what will happen to them if mom and dad succumb to the flu? What if there are no close relatives or friends to take them in or at least be a source of guidance and support? What if those other adults whom your family would normally rely upon to help your children also die during a pandemic? What if they are suddenly on their own? Will they even know what to do to get you buried? Collect on your life insurance? Deal with the thousand and one tiny little details that have to be done to settle your affairs? Are your kids ready for any of that? Could they take care of themselves if they needed to? Do they have a job? Bank account? Driver’s license? Car?
I know this sounds morbid but this thought came to me over the weekend when I was down sick with some “stomach bug” that’s been making the rounds. I blame the fever.
I was in my upper 20’s and married with three young kids when my mother died from cancer and I had to plan her funeral. My brother was overseas, our father had died years earlier. All of my extended family, aunts, uncles and cousins were out of state or lived some distance away. Thank heaven my sister-in-law had the presence of mind to show up at the funeral home and help me because I had no clue what to do and was physically in no shape to think clearly as I was recovering from a car accident. I also remember well having to settle this same sister-in-law’s affairs after her own death a few years ago as she was a widow with no children. It was a huge task. My husband had just begun a new job and simply did not have the time to do it all. Plus he took his sister’s death very hard. When I think of our three kids (19–25) having to take care of all those details….I cringe. The fact is my husband and I both have health problems that make us high risk. Most of our family is out of town or out of state and most of them are older than we are. There may not be anyone to help them. They would not know where to begin. Plus they would have their own lives to get in order. Quickly. Our two oldest are both currently looking for jobs. Our youngest will be taking next semester off from college so will be looking for work soon. They have bank accounts but do not have their own cars or drivers licenses. There so many things they need to do to be able to be self sufficient. I bet I am not the only parent with kids who are not “Ready to Launch.”
With this in mind I decided it might be a good idea to sit down and put on paper what they would need to do under normal circumstances. Who to call to report a death. Family members to contact. How many death certificates to request. Our banking information. Where the life insurance policy is located. Contact information for: Attorney, mortgage company/landlord, finance companies, and others with whom business matters will need to be settled. How to deal with those so called grieving relatives/friends who simply want “something.”
Pandemic Flu or not they could someday suddenly need this information.
Wow! Something to think about just in general. Our youngest is 23 and a college senior. Her 2 older siblings live out of state. She would be on her own if anything happened to us…flu wise or otherwise. Am printing our post and giving it to my hubby so we can begin another “prep”. Thank you.
Your kids are NOT going to want to hear all this — so do tell them where the instructions are (repeat, repeat, repeat) and let them change the topic. Do check in with your attorney and make sure your will is as clear as it can be. When my mother died, we were in a fog and ended up buying an expensive casket. I wish we’d had her list of what she wanted. Also, you might ask your kids not to fight over “Stuff” — it is amazing how vicious fighting can be over Aunt Martha’s teaspoon collection. If you know there are power struggles between certain offspring, head them off at the pass. Ask who wants what and tell them you’ll make up a final (secret) list of who gets what goodies. That way everyone can be mad at your angel and not at each other. I need to update my letter to my kids. Thanks for the reminder!
I want my 2 girls home when it breaks out..they are at Amherst college. One daughter has chronic severe kidney disease attributed from me having the influenza in 1976, while I was pregnant…sickest that I ever have been. Influenza destroyed her physical well-being, and I will never allow it to take her life..She has suffered all her life from me having it. period
I was just worried about keeping my daughter here with us. About how hard that will be for her. being young and just out of college,looking at starting life in ‘the real world” and being faced with being quarentined with the parents. I hadn’t even thought about any of this. Anytime it has crossed my mind in the past-like if there were a car accident or something- I always thought “her Uncle Barry or or Aunt Karen will help her. But now I think both of them might be more apt to be gone before we are as they “don’t believe in that bird flu crap”. I can’t imagine what she would do. I know she knows enough to get to the safe and get the cash and take the checkbooks (before her step grandfather can get his hands on them) but what she would do beyond that I have no idea. I will have to give this some serious thought and make a list for her. Whew- another mindblowing piece to contend with. Thanks for thinking of this. It is a very important thing for parents to deal with.
I would rather die from it than her
I would rather die from it than her
Poppy I have made a notebook with all the info I want our children to know. Bank accounts bills with all account numbers What bank with addresses and people names at the bank who they can contact. I even listed items dishes, vases ,ect. and who they came from say great grandma or grandma and maybe a story that might go with it. On the front of the notebook I even put there names. I keep it up to date. Oh forgot on the firt page I wrote them a letter and told them how much they have meant to us over the years. Hope this helps.
Poppy I have made a notebook with all the info I want our children to know. Bank accounts bills with all account numbers What bank with addresses and people names at the bank who they can contact. I even listed items dishes, vases ,ect. and who they came from say great grandma or grandma and maybe a story that might go with it. On the front of the notebook I even put there names. I keep it up to date. Oh forgot on the firt page I wrote them a letter and told them how much they have meant to us over the years. Hope this helps.
I was married and in a foreign country at 20. I think your children will cope far better than you realize. It is just that in our country, and in European countries, adult children seem to be more like the adolescent of my day. Yet we were expected to remain home until marriage. I had to follow my European fathers ideas, at least in his eye, even though I’ve always done exactly as I chose, with a little creativity. Its terrible to think that they might have to cope with such losses, and you are right to get things organized for them in case the worst happens. I don’t intend to die, I don’t think any of us has really swallowed that pill whole quite yet. But how many of the older generation, let their children know exactly how and where they want to be buried. That was typical of parents in my day. They had their plots picked out and paid for. I don’t think any of them gave us credit for being as mature as we were.The worst is if everything breaks down as some of the scenarios suggest. God it must be awful to have to think of this. Have no suggestions, just don’t let it depress you too much. It brings a lump into my throat just to imagine it.
Lily…keep the positive attitude ! It will always fare better than the negative. I don’t think my kids or me will die from it, if one get sick with it, I will deal with it then..not obsess about it now. I will not let fear rule my life…one day at a time for me
As many of you may know I have five children … 15, 13, 9, 7, and 2. I cannot overlook that even should the worst not happen to hubby and I there may be times when the kids are on their own.
I know what I have planned for our stock of food, but it doesn’t do any good if I get sick. With that in mind I have created a notebook with an inventory and recipes that even I will refer to when/if we start using the preps in a pandemic situation.
I’ve also included sections on water, general household instructions, and am currently working on a section for in-home health care.
Even I would have trouble decoding all the business records should something happen to my husband. Not from ignorance … it would just take time. Everything is documented, but due to the type of business it is quite involved with a lot of financial records. I’ve included some basic account info, but they are too young to access it anyway as they are not adults.
I have a section on important phone numbers and addresses. And I’m trying to put them in order of importance … but there are few of them that my kids could turn to.
The kids have daily living skills like cooking and cleaning, so in that respect I’m not worried.
There are other things, such as genealogy, but I am trying to focus on prioritizing.
Grandma-I like the notebook idea, especially the letter part. We have a special place all our important papers go and the information I am putting together will go in that once I am done with it. They all know where to find it.
I have to admit thinking about this did get me a bit down but I would be much more depressed if I did nothing to prepare them for the worst. I had a chance to speak with our oldest alone today and told him what I was thinking about this stuff. He had to admit it just never occurred to him to think about it but he realized I was right. His dad and I could simply get in a car accident and they might be alone, it would not even have to be the flu. I guess I just feel they are more vunerable right now because of the boys recent job losses. Their sister is pretty innocent in many ways (rare for her age) so she would really depend on them.
The area we live in has a very high cost of living as well so they would all have to work very hard to just stay in the place we currently live in. Our rent is pretty low by local standards and it’s decently maintained so I know they would do well to stay put together if at all possible. At least for awhile anyway. One bit of advice I intend to give them is don’t make any major changes unless you have to. Don’t move, get married, or make any other major life choice right away. Just work on stability first.
I think the fact that my only sibling just recently had a quadruple heart bypass is part of what got me thinking along these lines. He lives in another state halfway across the country and with his own problems and children that are also 20 somethings still at home he is in no position to help. He may not survive this himself. My husband is an oops baby who came late in his parent’s lives. His siblings though numerous are all elderly. They would not likely be able to help either. We only have a small circle of friends. We neither one were ever the life of the party. So reality says my kids would be on their own. That means that part of our preps needs to include the information they will need should the worst happen to their father and myself. It also means my kids need to work on certain priorities. Theirs are mainly jobs and drivers licenses. They already have their own checking accounts but need to add saving accounts as well.
I just wanted to get people thinking about this. I have seen many voicing concern for younger children and rightly so but those nearly adults and young adults that are still at home or are in college or just starting out still need our support also.
Dar I so feel for you. I cannot imagine the fear you must have over this. I would be terrified for my child if she had health problems that had been caused in that way. My husband nearly died from a seasonal flu once so he urged me to prep. It didn’t take much urging.
I think there will be many students either staying home from colleges this year or taking classes much closer to home. Many schools offer online classes. It may be a very good option for some students to look into. It is something my own daughter is considering. It might be something yours can do as well.
Wow. What a sobbering line of thought.
We have an 18mo. old and are expecting #2 any day now. I woke up the other night in a cold sweat thinking about me and my wife both getting sick and what would happen to our babies…. We hadn’t planned on having other people here with us during the big event, but I’m thinking it might not be a bad idea to add more to the household just in case we can’t take care of the little ones ourselves. I refuse to let my mind go down that corridor of horror….
I hope it’s not considered discussing religion for me to say the only way I can face some of these fears is that I know the Lord is in charge!
Kathy Glad to see you posted here. You’re one reason I thought of this as well. Your kids are younger than mine but the oldest is near one of the age groups I was thinking about, those who are near the age of majority. Get him/her driving as soon as you can. That was one of our biggest mistakes.
Your recipes you have shared are going to save us all. I have saved so many of them. Cooking is one thing I need to work on with my kids. They were all in scouts (1 Eagle) so can cook some but they usually let mom do it. They all need to practice more. So we are going to start having each of them cook dinner at least one night a week.
Going through personal financial papers can be difficult under any circumstances. I would have never figured out my sister-in-law’s if it were not for the fact that was the one area of her life where she was extremely well organized. It took three months to clear out the farmhouse she had lived in for 30 years when she passed away. I will not put my kids through a nightmare like that. We found the oddest things in the weirdest places. So I am working on being better organized with our financial papers. My weak point.
Genealogy- For those of us who do it, at least get what you do have done organized. Family photos also. For those who have not started. Your family’s history is a wonderful gift to give your children. Also doing a medical genealogy can be very important to your children in the future. I find genealogy can be a great stress reliever. Maybe hints for those who want to start could be another thread?
Scout- If I had children that young I would want someone else there. You might want to get things in writing soon about who their guardians would be. Just in case. It’s a good idea no matter what.
Scout—please get guardians for your little ones as soon as possible. Our daughter and son-n-law leave the country once a year for business and leave the grandkids with us. The first time they went away, they left papers appointing us as “guardians” of our grandchildren in the event they did not return. They also left a simple will with instructions as well as insurance info. It was nothing “fancy”, just something they had notorized. Each year, they just update the original to add for the new “little ones”. I keep all the papers in a safe place, just in case they are needed. It gives grandpa and I some peace of mind, but it is something we never want to use.
Olymom—I agree. She will NOT want to discuss any of this. However, with only an 80 year old grandmother in state, and the possibility of quarantine keeping her two sisters in a major eastern city, she needs some info. We need to get her name on banking records and give her access to financial info. She has close church family she could turn to for help, until her sisters could get here, but she still needs info. I like the idea of a notebook (another notebook) with lots of info inside. A visit with the attorney is not a bad idea either. Lots to think about!
I too have been thinking about the kids in college and what happens if the bird flu breaks out. I can’t even begin to imagine how fast it would spread through a college dorm. I would think they would close the schools and send the kids home.
has anyone asked their childrens’ colleges what they would do in case of a pandemic? My son is a senior in high school, will be off to college in late August - I can prep, but I can’t tell him not to go to college unless it’s right in our faces at that point.
Birdie—Don’t count on it. When Hurricane Rita was predicted to hit Texas, the president of my daughter’s college waited until the day before it hit to cancel classes. Lots of kids were stuck in dorms with no power and only the provisions they had stored themselves…no mealplans, no help from the school….only a place to stay. The town is about 100–150 miles inland, but the storm came right over that part of the state and the area looked like a war-zone. The president was able to get the power back on so classes ressumed the following Monday. Lots of kids who skipped classes the previous week and fled home were not able to get back to campus…..it was left up to the the professors as whether to excuse them or not.
We have done the will and included two different executors and named a guardian in the event something were to happen to both of us. I know they would be ok if something were to happen tonight. It’s the uncertainty of the flu pandemic specter that worries me.
As for all of you with older kids: I agree that they need to hear even though they probably won’t want to. My mother died unexpectedly almost a year ago, and for the last six months of her life she tried to talk to me about her wishes. I alwys cut her off and she didn’t want to upset me so she would let me change the subject. I’m lucky enough to have two sisters who did talk with her extensively so they new what to do. I did learn the lesson the hard way. It is hard for young people to face the mortality of their parents, but they need to know what to do.
I have a 2 and a 4 year old. our only family are my parents who live 100+ miles away. And my mom doesn’t want to abandon her birds. I’m sick to death thinking of how to navigate the worst possible: what if my children are orphaned? (worse, what if only one of them makes it? my 2 yo can’t even unlock the door.) I’m hoping to drill my eldest on where ‘safe’ neighbors may be (time to meet and greet the neighborhood). Am planning to pack a small knapsack with rations, a DVD of family photos, and a flashdrive with finanacial and identification info. He know how to use the cellphone and take a photo with it. I had a sobering talk with my dr. today. she says if it hits, she’ll not survive it. i’m so afraid for my babies and so woefully under-prepped. thanks for letting me get this out. does anyone have ideas how else we can help the little ones who may be on their own?
ezmo, do you have any good friends nearby, close friends?
As an instructor at a college who is getting stonewalled with responses from my higher ups… it needs to go up four layers before a decison can get made whether or not to even plan!..
I would tell you that board of directors and presidents listent to parents.. you are the ones paying the bills.. call/email the people on the cabinet, the president, vp of student life, etc. and demand to know the plans they have in place for the well-being of your child.. as well as their plans to continue classes during this time (or refund your$$) These names and contact info can always be found on the website.. somethimes it takes some digging but they are there.
good luck!
ezmo -
Believe me, I understand your fear. You are not alone. I like your idea of packing the knapsack. I will talk to my wife about doing the same for our babies. This thing hasn’t happened yet. Remember - it may never happen. You can still prep. Make sure you make every day count - do whatever you can do each day. I just recently started this process and know how overwhelming it seems.
i think this is the scariest part about the whole pending cataclysmic event !!!!!
Maybe we shouldn’t underestimate kids. Once they are hooked off the tv set, they can usually think quite well. They need information, communication skills, thinking skills …
Apparently, experts in risk communication agree “health authorities” should include the public in difficult decisions. Maybe adults can do the same in their mutually enriching conversations with teenagers. Not sure about smaller kids; maybe the trick is to do as usual: adapt to what you think it’s in their power, try small things that are reversible, be ready to be surprised as to what their real powers are, try again something different.
Consequences.AdjustmentReactions? has a simple “thinking framework”: what is going on, what might happen, what we’re doing, what else should we do. The first two areas are full of uncertainty. The third might as well be honest. The fourth could be full of practical, cooperative creativity.
I think it’s easier to agree on things if we work on them bit by bit. We may assess risk differently and yet agree to prepare somehow. Our risk assessment may change in time and that’s alright too.
(This text may have to find it’s way into the Consequences.AdjustmentReactions? page, what do you think?)
MaMa – at 00:09 - i have a couple of close friends in the area. all of my friends are younger: early-mid twenties. i was thinking last night that taking in orphans would expose them, too. maybe communities can start to think how to handle orphans (of any age) until their next of kin could be vaccinated. my mom said she’d move heaven and earth to save them, but if they survived they’d only expose their grandparents who are poor health as it is (COPD & heart disease). i can’t come up with any better solution than pack them a bag. even just telling them *when* to leave would frighten them. (how do you tell a 4 yo, “if mommy and daddy get sick and don’t wake up, get your coat and your bag and knock on t he neighbor’s door?” that’s a damn scary thought for a kid. I’m at a loss.
The planning needs to be done for any eventuality. Having extra guardians named seems to be wise, looking at prospect of pandemic.
Local communities need to be planning for unattended minors. Taking people in, they’d need to be isolated for a while, in case they were going to get sick. (Maybe the schools would be a better place to do that, than turn them into overflow community hospitals). Others have suggested going through the hoops to be some sort of emergency foster care provider ahead of pandemic, some faith communities are making plans, but many don’t have such a group who might step up.
The notebooks and other important papers might also be put into the large size zip-lock freezer bags; to protect from water damage. Storm, pipe leak, having to move in the rain, whatever. Some families put a fireproof box in the basement (is that the least likely place to get damaged in a fire? the freezer seems to survive too, someone said).
If it was during pandemic, there at least might not be the high-pressure high-sales pitch from the funeral indu$try, and any memorial service ect, might best be done a year on.
There are no easy answers for these sad kind of situations. People all over the globe struggle with this every day, in some countries; kids left on their own when their parents die.
:-/
With a stay-at-home-mom family, should there be isolation from the Dad if he has to go out after H2H is seen somewhere in the world? Or serious decontamination of his clothing, not bringing it through the house? Strip outside the back door, bag the clothes? These scenarios are so heartbreaking, and, the children alone dilemma is so tough….the more we can think of to avoid it, the better. On another thread, there was the idea of putting signs in your windows to communicate with the neighbors. Could a neighbor set up an isolation room for orphaned neighbor children-it would be necessary to keep them apart from her own family for a week or so.
Jane – at 11:52 :”would be necessary to keep them apart from her own family for a week or so.”
Why do you say for a week? I was thinking a longer time period…
ezmo- a very scary thought indeed. Mine are older (7, 11 and 12), but they are my main concern too. We are planning to isolate as a family group- mine and my sister’s family and our parents. I can understand that you wouldn’t want to risk exposure of your friends. I was thinking more along the lines of perhaps you could plan to isolate together if they are like-minded, or at the very least set-up a plan of frequent communication, preferably daily. If the utilities stay up and running consistently you could phone, if they don’t maybe walkie-talkies (check the range) or HAM radio? That way if you didn’t reply they would at least know there was a problem and could try to contact someone to help the children. This would work well for them too, as you could do the same if they didn’t reply. I hope that helps.
I’ve been offline for a few days and just got back on so I came to this thread. You all have shared so many great ideas.
One thought I had in reading the posts to catch up was one MaMA just mentioned: Phoning. I think for families with children, especially very young children that a phone call to a designated friend or relative every day would be a good idea. It would be a good idea if you had someone with whom you checked in by phone by a certain time every day. That way if they did not hear from you they would know to call. Then if they could not reach you within a reasonable time they could have someone check on the family’s well being. Then if there were little one’s alone with deceased parents someone could get to them sooner rather than later and see to it they were taken care of. As for elderly parents. I know some communities have those daily call services where their is someone who calls and checks in with them daily to make sure they are okay. We had it in our community until recently, it was abandoned due to lack of interest.
spikemom- If I were in your shoes I would include some preps in my son’s college supplies. I know space in dorms is limited but some essentials like a Nano mask and extra filters, eye goggles, a box of latex gloves, a can of Lysol spray and other items of that sort could prove very useful. I might also include some food and water preps, and such that he could keep in a separate tote bin or box in his closet to be there if he needs it. Don’t forget the vitamins. Kids this age seldom eat right and never seem to get enough sleep. The vitamins can’t hurt flu or not.
You may not be able to keep him from going but you can make him aware of the potential dangers of living in close quarters with many people. It wouldn’t hurt to make him aware of the symptoms of not only flu but meningitis and several other illnesses he might be likely to encounter in such an environment, just so he has the knowledge to recognize them and take steps to protect his own health should the need arise. With any luck he will have a degree in his hands before we ever see this thing become an H2H pandemic.
The notebook idea with important info is great.
My 19 yr old son is as aware of the possible outcomes of Avian Flu as I am. He is playing very close attention because of his age and because he has psoriasis. He realizes that he will most likely have greater risk of cytokine complications should he get this flu.
I work for a university that was effected by Hurricane Rita (along with 3 other sister campuses) and nothing is being discussed about AI. There is hope for us however, because Laurie Garrett will be here on April 17 as a part of our University’s Academic Lecture Series. I’m sure she’ll be able to open some eyes here.
I’m fortunate that my son’s campus (Texas A & M) will be one of the better prepared universities in the state. The system office has a link to Fluwiki in it’s statement regarding the possibe AI pandemic.
I’m in total agreement with every word anoymous teacher – at 00:35 wrote. If you have kids in college, YOU as a parent should contact any & every person you deem necessary in the college administration with regards to AI. They won’t listen to employees, but they’ll listen to parents.
Ruby—What about psoriasis and the cytokine complications? I have a grandson with asthma and 2 granddaaughters with psoriasis (all under the age of 7). I understand the asthma involvement, but not the psoriasis. Please explain.
What school do you work for? If the lecture by Laurie Garrett open to the public?
Lets hope that after the government’s recommendation for schools to prepare, that colleges get on the band wagon.
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North of Houston, I work at Lamar University in Beaumont. The lecture is on April 17, open to and free to the public. Here’s the link http://tinyurl.com/ewznd
I’m concerned by psoriasis because I believe it’s caused by a hyper immune response. I’m assuming that someone with a over-active immune system would fare very badly if they contracted AI.
Thank you, Ruby. My husband and I are both former Cardinals! We still have family and friends in Beaumont. I’m putting the lecture on our calendar and hope we can attend. It will be interesting to see what the turnout is.
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