New thread so start writing!
I must admit I have lost track of the other ‘down-under’ threads so I was delighted to see this one pop up again.
Last night I received my ‘letter’ from the Ministry of Health advising me about preparing for a pandemic. Every household in NZ has got one. It even includes a fridge magnet. If you want to see what we are all getting - brochure at least, it is on the NZ MoH website - here is the link http://tinyurl.com/bstk3
The cyclone that devastated Ausralia, had it affected any of our Aussie wickian friends?
Lily - can I join with you in hoping our wiki friends are all safe. The pictures shown on our news here last night were just mind-blowing - such devastation. A reminder to not mix it with mother nature!
I’m in Canberra and have been following BF for about 2–3 years now, but only have recently discovered fluwikie. I was following the recombinomics site for sometime and found it very informative and an indicator of what was about to happen with BF. I am not really prepping in the technical sense. I am stocking up a little more on brown rice, powdered milk etc - but thats about it. We have always had carbon masks anyway as the partner is in the building trade and these are handy to deal with fumes etc ie when painting.
Certainly the pace of the spread of the virus in the bird population is phenomenal, especially as this has never happened on this scale before. I have read that there were outbreaks of HPAI in birds in the 1950′s but not anywhere on this scale. I am sceptical about trying to stock up on Tamiflu and wont even bother with that - as it is only meant to help if taken in the first four hours of contracting the virus. However, I am most interested in primarily focusing on building the immune system and prevention against any deadly virus or bacteria. The most dangerous problem I think we will face is - mass panic amongst the community.
I went to a presentation that included an outline of the economic effects of a pandemic recently and that is scary as well. However, all in all - prevention is better than cure and that is what ‘the informed readers of fluwikie’ are working to.
i am running out of room to put prep stuff. i *could* use floor space in my living/dining area but then folk would know what i’m up to. The only available hiding space now is under the lounge. Maybe some of those storage box’s that are meant for linen under the bed are in order. I really dont want to have preps visable. But i dont want to live in a quartermasters tent!! I only have water for a week for 2 people which worries me living in australia. Sorry to ramble on…just needed to talk i guess
Interesting timing, or mis-timing—and from a friend who knows nothing of my BF and pandemic concerns—but I have been offered use of a small house on the edges of a country NSW centre, rent free, just as a custodial/watchman!
Is this a gift from heaven…or a set-back in survival, if this thing breaks? I could really save some money there and later move back to Sydney if nothing happens (or AFTER) with a nice little nest-egg…
What would YOU do, in this situation?
Take it. Grab it with BOTH hands and thank whatever gods you speak to!!
re microshield: It is $8.50 for the 4% solution at Amcal phamacy. They also have a product called Aqium which is a no rinse hand sanitizer gel. Have a teeny bottle suitable for a handbag. The tiny bottle (70ml) is 3.50. very handy i think to have when one works in an office situation and others arent as vigilant about hand washing when leave the bathroom. Sorry to be so uncouth.
Woodstock:
Thanks for your positive support, but…
Do places like Armidale, Tamworth, etc have decent medical care? Shopping? Library? I’ve never been west of Katoomba except once I fell asleep and ended up at Lithgow, many years ago!
And satellite tv? Internet connection, etc? I don’t want to do a ‘Robinson Crusoe’ bit!
I have an aunt in Armidale and she has internet access though does complain about the Dr’s availabilty. However: if you are doing this as a pandemic thing, do you really think Dr’s will be available anywhere anyways? Most anywhere these days has delivery via net orders so even if you dont have a David Jones close by you can still order for delivery. I doubt there is much in australia outside of the Red Centre that would be as remote as doing a “Robinson Crusoe”. Will phone my aunt and ask…
Nikolai---Sydney – at 02:08
Dont worry about either, I went to Uni at Armidale and have lots of family in Tamworth.
They have everything that you could need. Armidale is one of my favourite towns in Australia.
But keep in mind that it gets colder in Armidale than in Canberra in winter.
Is it between the two….Urala, Moonbi, Bendemeer etc?
AussieOne:
Thanks to you and Woodstock, sincerely. I gave a very qualified ‘yes’ to the offer but asked for some time to weight it for my needs and means. An answer is not needed urgently, so I am very keen to hear advice of others.
I have felt sufficiently anonymous where I now am to tell the world not merely ‘Sydney’ but to mention ‘Penrith’ where I am but a very minor one of 350 000. Going to a smaller place, however, I am reminded of a former poster being quoted by a newspaper, and yet another having to change her on-line name very recently…
For that reason I used Armidale and Tamworth as examples of the rough size of the country centre I am thinking of moving to. You understand, I’m sure.
Thanks for support and perspective. I’m VERY receptive.
Hi Nikolai - I can’t comment on NSW towns, but certainly ones of that size in WA have libraries and medical care, though they probably won’t be of the size you’re used to and you may have to wait longer to get a doc appt than you do where you are currently.
If I were you, I’d grab the opportunity with both hands :-) Pandemic aside, it sounds like a great opportunity and if bird flu does break I don’t think you’ll be any worse off for being in a decent sized country centre.
Hi everyone. I’ve been lurking here for a while, but this is my first post. I love that we’ve an ANZAC thread all to ourselves!
Nikolai: when you say ‘on the edges’ of town, do you mean a normal town block, or in a more rural area? The only problem I’ve ever heard of regarding internet in the country is that electric fences can occasionally disrupt the connection. And broadband isn’t be available in many country areas, of course. As for moving to the country, I’d say go for it, but then I wouldn’t live in a city for quids! A suggestion: if you can, why not spend some time in the area before you make up your mind - maybe drive down and stay the night and see what the town is like, both in the daytime and after dark. A lot of larger rural towns have some serious social problems; but maybe your mate who owns the house can set you right on that.
Nikolai - take it, take it, take it. Unless they are talking of a real rural aussie property, where it is 50 miles to your front gate, you have to be better off (or certainly no worse off) than staying in the city when a pandemic hits.
Check out things like water supply - bore or rain water collection, and stability of power supply. You could probably get your extra medication before you leave the city. If it is on the Flying Doctor service routes, you can always register with that.
I agree with swampie - go try it for a few days and see what you think.
I have colleagues here in NZ who are already arranging to move to remote locations (family cottages etc) as soon as there is any sign of a problem - mainly those with young children. One local even said to me you don’t need to do much prepping if you live on a country lifestyle block with vege garden, sheep and a decent shotgun!
AnnieB, swamp wallaby and old friends:
Priceless information and perspective! Thanks millions. Yes, I definitely will go out there and stay at a pub for two or three days to really get the feel.
As living solo and on age pensions, I am quite free to go or come as I like. I am printing this thread to take with me for guidance on what to check.
At my age (77) I am a little—read ‘a lot’--more cautious so I value guidance to balance that!
This will probably take a few weeks to settle—the couple now in the house are definitely moving but not urgently. I will share with you, if I may, as this goes on.
And, Nikolai, if it looks like paradise then can we please make a reservation to use it as the reunion party when this is all over ;-)
And on a more personal note, you remind me so much of my dearly departed father-in-law (who lived almost to 90 BTW) - he had a wonderful turn of phrase, a delightfully descriptive writing style, a thirst for new knowledge and ideas, but always ‘looked to the younger set’ to check if he was “still being sensible”, as he affectionately phrased it.
Other things to check Nikolai - other than the water supply which is essential…
Is there a mechanic for car repairs. Also someone who can repair your water pump if needed at any point. Heating for the place, if wood how much will a few ton of wood cost, if gas (also if gas cooking), is it mains or bottled, when can you get gas deliveries or will you have to pick it up yourself.
If you’re planning to be there a while (into next summer), is there a local CFA/bushfire brigade? If so, go visit them, see if you can get involved even if just operating the radios for them - a great way to meet a bunch of people that you can really rely upon in the town.
If I think of anything else I’ll add it later tonight!
Is it my imagination or has there been a bit more than the usual silence re BF in our australian media? Or am i just becoming more savvy at finding info?
Woodstock @ 02:16 My thyoughts too. Seems odd that while our nearest niaghbours NZ are sending out leaflets to all households and WHO was investigating a possible H2H cluster ourmedia is quite. Power of the Commonwealth Games I suppose!!!!
omega: H2H cluster where??
omega - just seconding Woodstock’s question of where is the H2H cluster? It’s been a frantic day, I’ve not seen any news at all (BF or other…)
Azerbaijan
thats not confirmed tho is it as far as i can see?
The World Health Organization has confirmed seven human infections of H5N1 avian flu in Azerbaijan, including a cluster of six cases.
I’m sorry AussieOne..maybe i’m just being stupid but have they actually said that cluster is H2H? or *just* a cluster….
Just a cluster - but all clusters have the potential of being H2H and with a 4 - 7 day incubation period you can never be sure.
I have noticed a lot more international media activity - news over last week and loads more activity on the fluwikie yes Aust is fairly quiet just one story this week regarding the two strains whereas the US news item discuss schools potentially closing down etc…
NotParanoidBut – at 06:22, agree, which is a real shame. We are really trailing behind others when it comes to raising the profile of this threat. The USA (who were also slow on this) have picked up the ball, they too are way in front of Australia now.
Thanks AussieOne.
So when do the Commonwealth Games finish? (you can see I’m not a sports fan…)
After looking at the aftermath of the cyclone in Qld, I’ve spent this week working on my home Bug Out Bag, imagining I had to leave (drive) out of home in a hurry. Not really flu-prep related, but a useful exercise nonetheless. I also have a bag at work with provisions for me to walk home if neccesary.
aziraphale – at 06:29 This weekend they finish, I here Tony Blair is coming over for the last couple of days.
Good work with the BOB.
Yes its been amazing to see the US media change dramatically over the past week or two more stories more not about the flu itself but about the public preparation needed (similar to the NZ pamphlets and radio spots) about personal preparation. When you look at the Aus Preparedness Plan under Communication it details we will also be getting these items but in April/May so the rollout is definitely slower.
NotParanoidBut – at 06:40, news to me, can you post the link re April/May.
Here is the link regarding what Communication preparations are going to be rolled out at what phase etc http://www.health.gov.au/internet/wcms/publishing.nsf/content/phd-pandemic-plan-3-e cant see the April date listed must have been on another site the above link is interesting though to see what is being planned at what point
No could not see anything on there either. The page has not been updated since June 2005.
You got my hopes up that maybe something was going to change for the better re general preparedness…..guess I will just have to keep on hoping.
Yes I know the page has been static for a long time- but the plan is there to be implented at certain ‘stages’. I wonder when our fridge magnet will be arriving? in a selfish way its great because the shops are quiet - it almost feels like a luxury to be able to prep the way we have been - BUT there are so many not informed you can hardly call that fair! and ultimately the lack of info now will mean more panic and mayhem later which is why i try! to tell others about it now (unfort about 80% give me that look that I must be totally insane)
My boss thankfully is very health concious. We’ve agreed at the first report of H2H we work from home. Thankfully 99% of our business is conducted via phone/fax/email so its not a problem at all. I must be the luckiest employee in Australia. Though I have failed to get her to prep. I think she just finds the thought of H2H so horrifying she cant face it. Its certainly not because she’s unaware. Odd behavious though for such a superintelligent person i would think. Also she doesnt have children and i think that does make a difference.
Had the entire family shot up with the FluVax late yesterday - my advice, if you are going to have the 2006 FluVax do it on a Friday or weekend. Knocked the hell out of us and turned happy people into angry ones.
Very bad flu in the Northern Hemisphere over their winter and this is why I arranged it.
Mentioned BF to my doctor and he said that with all the possibilities this year a flu shot was worth while.
AussieOne - how old are your kids? I am having a flu shot but I went to the doctor to ask about a flu shot for my three year old. I received a fairly equivocal answer ‘Can’t hurt - safe - but this practice doesn’t do kids - no need.” It’s up to me and I think I will definitely arrange it but just wondered how old your children are?
I also want to have a pneumovax - will let you all know how I go getting this one.
General thought for the day:
Who here in Sydney recalls the cryptosporidium-giardia-in-the-water crisis of 1998? We all heard public health announcements on the radio about how we needed to boil and cool our drinking water while efforts were made to track the source of the contamination.
On the very first day of that ‘outbreak’ I had an allergic reaction to some Flagyl. I was swelling up and turning into a beetroot figuratively so I rang the local surgery. ‘Don’t come down!’ they said “we’re full of people with giardia symptoms!’ But in the end I started to panic and thought I’d better go along and so I went and sure enough, the waiting room was FULL of people. The doc came out, took one look at me and said “get a taxi to emergency’ so I did. There, too, a full waiting area of people presuably with stomach aches (never saw any one puking).
Any way, you may recall how in the end of the saga, it was found that there was NO contamination of Sydney’s water supplies with giardia or crypto beyond normal levels.
I hate to think what will happen in a panflu. People will not be able to help themselves, being human they will fear the worst and imagine symptoms which may not be those of flu in any event. People are their own worst enemies (yes I include myself in this criticism).
I can’t help wondering why we can’t have the following: you get a fever or some illness which really seems not normal for you. YOu go to a specific station set up for the purpose of administering a flu diagnosis test (someone will have invented one by then right?!) and if and ONLY IF you diagnose as having the pandemic flu strain, you receive the antivirals (whcih will be allocated to these centres right?!) and get some for your immediate family (as shown on your medicare card to prevent stockpiling). You then, depending on your symptoms, go straight home (the testing centre will be local so you will not have far to go) and stay there or stay in the centre for management if you are sinking.
I know this model has flaws but somehow we will have to try and remove the element of doubt when there is a panflu, otherwise people are likely to clog hospitals and surgeries with symptoms they fear are flu but may not be.
Ms J – at 19:56
They are 9 and 16 years old. The 9 year old got a full dose (adult size) which explaines why he got so grumpy after it.
My GP said that under there are age limits and dose variations at certain ages…. go to the CSL site, who produce the drug and they have a very informative few pages on it, ages, side effects etc. This should answer all of your questions:
http://www.csl.com.au/files/1/Fluvax2006-CMI-cscfluva11005.pdf
Thank you AussieOne.
I also want to have a pneumovax - will let you all know how I go getting this one. Hi Miss J what is this med? how given? what cost? etc anyone with advice on the above many thanks by the way news reports look much more favourable today saying BF is difficult to spread to humans
Hi NPB at 21.35
Pneumovax targets streptococcus pneumoniae - it is one cause of things like pneumoccoal meningitis, pnuemonia and it is a bacterial superinfection that can follow on from viral infections like flu. Another potential offender is haemophilus influenzae, which was a cause of many children’s illnesses in the days before routine vaccination (1993 in Australia).
There is, I believe, evidence that pneumovax can limit the incidence or severity of pnuemonia in ‘older adults’ in situations like flu BUT I am not at all sure whether there is any evidence that it would help necessarily in pandemic flu. No one really knows, which is the hallmark of all the prophylactic measures that we are all taking. I still think, though, that I would like to have pneumovax JUST IN CASE H5N1 goes H2H (or any flu virus for that matter) and causes a pandemic but it is probably a long shot and that’s why I mention it in terms of ‘how i go’ as in 1) doctor humours me and gives it or 2) doctor sends me on my lunatic way.
Pneumovax was optional pay as you go when my baby was little so I made her have it but I paid, now I think it’s on the schedule of immunisations for Australian kids, other candidates are the over 65s and Aboriginal people, immunocompromised etc. One reason I think I want it is because it seems that in the case of pandemic flu, we’re all immunocompromised in a sense.
I am sure some doctors would just give it to any one who came and paid for it but there are some doctors who would argue the toss, say that panflu is unlikely or otherwise that it’s likely but that pneumovax wouldn’t help so not give it. I can’t tell what category my doctor falls into.
I also think there is a discussion of pneumovax on this site somewhere.
Hope this helps!
Woodstock – at 04:33 and aziraphale – at 05:58 http://tinyurl.com/faoe5 Toronto Star Azerbaijan WHO spokesman Dick Thompson was quoted “Initially we were very concerned but that concern has dimished substantially, “
This is a bit off topic but still relevant i think. Re the cyclone up north, i’m getting REALLY p*ssed listening to cnn and other us media talking about the risk of looting. We are australians…apart from an extremely small minority (ad ive never heard of looting in Oz)..WE DONT LOOT. We also dont wave guns at each other. I guess i’m getting a little freaked by so many of the posts from the northern hemisphere talking about guns and civil unrest. The only unrest i heard of after the cyclone was some guy (83) who heard someone rattling his door. When he went to investigate there was this huge man there who said “G’day mate. Someone down the road said you might need some help”. THATs australian. Rant over.
Ws-22:19:
It appears to me, and I hope others agree, no problem, WS! This thread, in particular, is an informal conversation, with the ‘casual rules’ of conversation. Mind, I accept there also are a few highly technical topics, on virology, cell biology and epidemiology, for example, where it’s clearly inappropriate to suddenly interject news of a great buy on huge chocolate bars! Not our problem here, is it!!
I largely share your reaction on the US reports, but with more a mixture of amusement and pity. Like every society, I guess their take on things is highly coloured by their own experiences. E.g. looting, as in New Orleans.
Again, you are 100% about guns, etc, up there, but that too is as I said just above. Remember the old truism, WS:
WHEN YOUR ONLY PERCEIVED TOOL IS A HAMMER, EVERY PROBLEM COMES TO LOOK LIKE A NAIL!
Where are you seeing picture of looting down there? All I’ve seen up here are some really torn up towns and some cute kids lined up for emergency food. I have both CNN and MSNBC on most of the time. Most of the commentary here in the U. S. I’ve seen has been very laudatory on how well your people have organized and worked together. You must be watching FAUX down there. Did did see a few pic’s of some guys in funny hats driving some big trucks, I want one of those hats!
Hey Corky52 they are probably Akubra hats and i am sure you can get via internet!
Not an Akubra, got one of those! This looked military with a neck sun flap, never seen anything like it.
Cant help with that one sorry! good luck
Something like these? http://tinyurl.com/r8sx5
These guys to online ordering.
no pictures of looting because there isnt any! Just they always seems to say about “The threat of disease and lotting” etc etc. Makes me crazy! It was on BBC World this morning and CNN earlier
Did see the threat of disease part, showed some flooded out water plant and a worker talking about the whole system having been contaminated, something you’d expect after a storm of that magnitude!
Looting must have been on CNN World, CNN U.S. hasn’t had anything but good things to say about you! CNN world comes out of London.
Woodstock, What happened at one of your beach towns several months ago. I recall gangs of white australians and men of arab decent beating the shit out each other. Pretty violent reaction. This is true? Stones and glass houses don’t mix. Dave
i *did* say the moronic few if u read above, and that lot were exactly that. I just knew i’d get some defensive reaction from someone. And we are talking about looting…not a bunch of drunken morons. YES we get drive bys on occasion YES we have the usual crappola every big city has on occasion. But we dont LOOT. That was my point. I’m very patriotic in case you hadnt noticed..but i dont think i’m blind to our shortcomings.
I have to admit this. I am a huge Aussie rugby fan. Take Care. You do have a great country. Cheers Dave
Dave: Truce? I’m sorry i got hot under the collar.
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