From Flu Wiki 2

Forum: Forum Focus

22 April 2006

DemFromCTat 15:08

This is a thread devoted to the Forum and its future needs. what are we looking for?

Is it:

Please leave comments here as to what’s most and least important.

jquest – at 15:19

I really like the Ad-Hoc nature of the forums - it’s much easier to just pile in with a topic - but that also means we have to search for similar information clusters - so we need a robust search capability I think.

BroncoBillat 15:42

I have to agree with LauraB about registration. Something with simply the Username and password. This might also cut down on some of the wild spamming we’ve been getting hit with. I’ll eat Spam from Hormel, but I HATE spam from hackers! Didn’t know if you knew that or not…

I’ve liked the look of the forums here. Call me crazy, but it’s much easier to just browse through the Last 50 to find what I’m looking for in terms of latest postings than on some of those other sites. The Forum Index is easy to search through, especially now that the speed has been bumped up a tad.

I’m not real picky, being the laid-back California dude that I am…the informal feel here is what gives FluWiki it’s togetherness…more like a town meeting than just standing up, saying your piece, then sitting down again. The Wiki side is very well organized, and I’ve even found myself going into some of those areas and re-arranging things for ease of use. The Forum side, however, should stay as somewhat of a free-for-all…

BB throws another 2 cents in…that should bring him up to about 48 cents now… LOL! Is that tax deductible?

Tom DVM – at 15:45

Hi Bronco Bill. I enjoy your posts. If you use registration, just make it simple enough so that us computer-illiterates can use it. I tried to register on crofsblog to make a comment but could’nt do it and have no idea why. Thanks.

Tom DVM – at 15:46

I also don’t know how to spell couldn’t.

BroncoBillat 15:54

Hi Tom---thanks. I’m hoping, too, that if the Mods go to using registration, it’ll be relatively painless. But I have faith in them…

I myself live in the computer world, but I also realize that many people get frustrated when trying to sign up on a website. Hell, I’ve even given up on a couple of credit card companies that make it nearly impossible to pay online! So, each month, I have to write one of those paper check things, stick it into something people used to call envelopes, and lick the back of it. Horrible taste! Then on the front of this envelope I have to stick a bunch of my old 13 and 17 cent stamps all over it ‘cuz the mailman hates it when he has to return my mail to me ‘cuz I didn’t tape enough money to it! ;-)

Monotreme – at 16:00

Scalability should be number 1, IMO.

I like the feel of the Flu Wiki forum as is. I think the index helps with organization. Registration, only if necessary. Hopefully it will be easier to deal with trolls and spammers with the new system.

newore – at 16:25

split static pages/forum search. change search tags to reflect “search forum” or “search archive”. on both wikii (plural?)

make a segment of the search description refer to “google search” or some other search engine to divert search loads?

JoeWat 16:45

I agree that you can’t tell if its people or style. However, the style brought the people togethere (or was it the topic). Anyway, I like the look and feel of the current style and vote to keep it or some variation.

I think registration is a good idea for lots of reasons, mostly troll repellent. And I like to know if this is the party to whom I am speaking (Remember Lillie Tommlin).

DemFromCTat 16:59

newore – at 16:25

wikii? LOL. we have to remember that.

All

Remember that we do not have an “in-house development team that works hand in glove with our marketing team and our HR team to assure prompt and expiditious turn-around on those important projects written from scratch”. We may be looking at off-the-shelf apps (with possible skins that change color or fonts in a limited way).

Many of the off-the shelf forums look similar to current events or flutrackers. That’s no knock… it’s just different than the free-for-all known as the Flu Wiki Forum.

feel free to drop by those other places or to gs’ BB to look at them.

lugon – at 18:27

Forum Focus.

Different roles (same person may take different roles):

Different factors (some of them social, some depend on the wiki engine):

What’s missing in this overview?

DemFromCTat 19:01

Not much. The ability to download Forum pages is a must. And Forums are so much easier to post to, they invite disorganization/informality. That’s a plus for immediate reads, a minus for harvesting. The ability to put anchors or links to specific comments is a real plus.

Good list. Folks, please add.

anon_22 – at 21:02

I think scalability and stability should come first.

The next most important IMO would be ease of use. There are lots of people, like myself <g>, who started off posting casually just cos its easy and they have a quick question, and never thought they would spend hours and days on this, (but look where I am now..<sigh>..). It doesn’t take a lot to put these folks off posting. :-)

Registration is a good idea, for reasons already stated.

As for disorganization, its a trade-off between making it easy to find stuff and making it easy to write interesting posts. I would choose the second over the first anytime.

Someone who needs to find something has several pathways open: 1) go to the wiki 2) search the forum 3) google the topic + fluwiki 4) (my favorite) post the question and wait for an answer. BTW this last is also a good way for people to ‘wet their feet’ in posting. I notice that folks here are generally enthusiastic about answering questions posted by newbies, so it’s a great way to welcome someone.

Of course, it always helps if we have folks like fredness, Monotreme, lugon etc etc who tirelessly trawl through the thread for gold nuggets and put them where we can find them. Hats off to you guys for your patience and stamina..

Call me old-fashioned, I’d vote to keep the current format if possible.

DemFromCTat 21:25

In passing, some notes:

Tom DVM – at 21:26

annon 22. I completely agree. I popped on casually and saw a comment that needed correcting. I sheepishly made a comment and here I am on a Saturday night still commenting a few months later. Could it be that we are absolutely convinced that a pandemic is in the offing in the near future and that is why we are here? Like I commented once before, most scientists come to their own conclusions. If every expert in the world said the threat was over, I would still be sitting hear absolutely convinced that it is going to happen. I have made a few suggestions to Government for which I recieved chuckles and derision in return. Those predictions came true in the end. One of them was made in Feb 2005 that the potential threat of H5N1 was being grossly under-estimated. The other two were made in Sept 2002 and Mar 2003 when I said that BSE was already in Canada and that an infectious disease would come out of China to Canada. So, when everyone leaves the room, leave the lights on for me…I’m not leaving.

Watching in Texas – at 21:31

Dem - this is a question regarding the profiles - I did a search (group=profiles) and instead of the 60 something that we had before, there were 5. Do we have to do a profile again? Sorry if this is on the wrong thread, wasn’t sure which would be appropriate.

anon_22 – at 21:33

Dem, interesting statistics.

A lot of people use the ‘Last 50 Changes’ the way one would use a news-wire service, I think. Don’t know whether that’s good or bad, probably both.

anon_22 – at 21:36

Tom,

I also have this unfortunate attribute for being right about nasty things. I guess I hang out here waiting for someone to prove me wrong or shoot me down.

Tom DVM – at 21:41

Annon. When I said it, I knew that I wouldn’t be alone. I expected that you would still be sitting there….and probably a few others as well.

DeLucaat 22:26

Tom, I too just dropped in to clarify something I had read and now routinely check the forum. I have worked in healthcare since 1978 both in clinical and administrative roles. I appreciate the diverse group of people posting here, they contribute a wide range of expertise. Tonight on forum I’ve read about common sense, old time gardening and genetic reassortment. That is the kind of exchange that I would like to see us maintain. My experience has taught me that a good diagnostician trusts his instinct. I have had that “ut oh” feeling about h5n1 for the past year or so and appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with the intelligent folks here on forum. I have a sense that you won’t be alone-most of us will be burning the midnight oil along with you.

DemFromCTat 23:19

Watching in Texas – at 21:31

Re profiles:

we are trying not to duplicate things. There’s the Profiles on server 1 (the wiki) and the Profiles on server 2 (the Forum). My thought was to leave them on server 1, so if the Forum goes down, we still have contact info.

gs – at 23:20

Registration should be optional (IMO)
The lines should appear as we type them (no end of line characters)
Threads/posts should have an option to mark them into some category, so others can easily ignore them.Alternatively split the forum into subforums. But not so many as at flutrackers - they still have a button for latest posts like “50 last changes” here.


here is my forum:
http://www.setbb.com/fluwiki2/
they started adding advertisements lately, while the first months there were none.


here is my wiki (still testing):
http://flupandemic.pbwiki.com/


these are easy and free to create nowadays.


Of course, it’s also important that people like it, functionality alone isn’t enough.

gs – at 23:33

I just noticed one improvement on the page with the threads: only 2 lines per thread instead of 3, so you have more threads on one screen-page. I had been using the “50 last changes” page with one entry per line, because the forum main page was too slow, but actually it’s fast.

BroncoBillat 23:41

DemFromCT – at 23:19 --- So if we create our profiles here on Wiki2, does that duplicate the first one on Wiki1? Maybe you or pogge could set up a link on the main page over on the left bar, to point to the Profiles list, and also have the same link on Wiki2. I know we can do a groups=profiles search on the Main page, but that’s not general knowledge, and we have enough interest from the users to maybe create that link.

From what it looks like right now, we’re gonna be duping our profiles here on the new server. Is there a way in PMWiki that can carry over our profiles simply linked to our posted name in the forum? In other words, can it be set up so that we don’t NEED to create a new profile, just simply point to our Wiki1 profile from Wiki2, and not show that we haven’t created a profile on the new server? That li’l question mark next to my name made me crazy this morning…LOL!

Does what I just said make sense? It doesn’t to me…

Watching in Texas – at 23:43

Dem at 23:19 - no problem - and the main point would be the contact info in case the forum went down, But….and this may be because I have indulged in too much white wine flu killer (I must inform BroncoBill that white wine works as well as the red!) or perhaps it was the bourbon chaser, but how do you access the profiles on the wiki (server 1)? I seem to only be able to access server 2?

DemFromCTat 23:47

The easiest way is to

  1. put ‘profiles’ in the search site box just below the birds, top left.
  2. scroll down to profiles/ and see the names
Watching in Texas – at 23:50

Demat 23:47 - I did that and still only got 5 profiles? More (hic) bourbon anybody?

DemFromCTat 23:51

BroncoBill – at 23:41

Anything done here at server 2 does not appear at server 1. Writing scripts that do it automatically is a very low priority.

DemFromCTat 23:52

BTW, we will cull the older server 1 in the next 48 hours of Forum threads. Anything you want saved that’s not here on server 2 now, speak up.

BroncoBillat 23:53

Watching in Texas – at 23:43 --- White Wine Flu Killer may work just as well, but it ain’t as good tastin’! ;-) During the ‘80s, when the SF 49ers were at their peak, white wine and brie cheese were being served at the stadium. Drinking Red Wine was looked down on as…vulgar. Sort of a type of “rebellionism” (is that even a word?) That’s me…a little bit rebellious…’sides, Red Wine Flu Killer goes better with Spam than that White Wine Flu Killer! ;-)

Of course, THAT could make for a whole new thread…

BroncoBillat 23:56

DemFromCT – at 23:52 --- Are you ONLY removing the Forum threads? The rest of the Wiki will remain, correct? I won’t have to re-alphabetize my Science.Glossary, will I? ;-)

DemFromCTat 23:59

Watching in Texas – at 23:50

Do it at www.fluwikie.com, not www.fluwikie2.com (where you’ll get 5). i just tried it… it works…

Profiles /

    AdirondackMountainMan
    Albert
    AnnieB
    Anon22
    Bristlecone
    BroncoBill
    Cabingirl
    Comments
    ConcernedInTexas
    Dalloway
    DavidB
    Declan
    DeclanButlerNature
    DemFromCT
    DennisC
    Denniscra
    DerekSmith
    DonJuansOtherDaughter
    DrDank
    Eccles
    European
    Felicia
    FlaMedic
    Flrish5
    Fredness
    Graham72
    Halper
    HillbillyBill
    JeffSCinNY
    Jgarrow
    JoeW
    John
    JonC
    Jquest
    KcQuiet
    LauraB
    Lily
    LisaTheGP
    LisaWallis
    LisaWallisLwallisuicedu
    LivingCreation
    LMonty
    Lugon
    MaMa
    Melanie
    Mmmelody47
    Monotreme
    Montanan
    Newore
    Pogge
    Profiles
    RecentChanges
    Revere
    Ricewiki
    Rrteacher
    RudiCilibrasi
    Snowhound1
    SolaRoofGuy
    Stephanie
    STH
    TallInMS
    TcInCT
    Terry
    Tlazolteotl
    Ukepm
    Urdar-NO
    Viralprotein
    WatchingInTexas
    Wayne
    WorriedInTheCity
    YourName

23 April 2006

DemFromCTat 00:04

I know it’s confusing. We are ONLY removing Forum threads from www.fluwikie.com (server 1), where the Wiki will stay intact. Forum threads will reside here at www.fluwikie2.com (server 2).

The side bar to the Left will mostly link to server 1, where categories like Opinion, Brainstorming, Science, etc. will not be touched. But removing all those Forum threads should make the wiki much more speedy… like the Forum is now.

Watching in Texas – at 00:13

Dem - okey dokey..I found them - clearly I either needed not so much wine and bourbon or much more…

BroncoBill at 23:53 - I am usually much more of a red wine flu killer fan, but we had scallops tonight, so we had white wine, and I am pleased to report that it works very well, especially when followed by bourbon. Did you know that red wine kills more flu germs when you make crepes and talk like Julia Childs? Really, it’s twu, ‘cuse me, I mean true…

gs – at 00:14

I’d like one big zipped file with all the old forum-threads before you cull them.

I’d like a feature to see the new posts since my last visit. I’d like a feature to see all unread replies to threads where I posted.

BroncoBillat 00:20

Watching in Texas – at 00:13 --- Heck…water works well when followed by enough Bourbon!!

And I was actually trying to cook like Graham Kerr…but I ran out of Vermouth!

BroncoBillat 00:42

Dem---I’m not confused, just discombobulated! :-) I just want to make sure that all my 17 minutes of working diligently on that glossary doesn’t have to be redone. I might have to go and get another box of Red Wine if I have to start that over again! ;−0 Thanks…

pogge – at 01:16

I just noticed one improvement on the page with the threads: only 2 lines per thread instead of 3

Can’t take any credit for that. It’s because a thread with a really long title didn’t make the cut.

Many Cats – at 01:55

Much as I like my minimal anonymity, I think registration will become a much bigger issue should H5N1 start heating up as regards H2H transmissibility. I would hate to think of the chaos which could ensue should some psycho decide to convincingly hijack the names of the mods, or attempt to corrupt the MaMa News Service or breech the “public trust” in names the likes of Monotreme, anon_22 or Tom DVM. Someone could get in trouble if they followed directions given by an Eccles-pretender. There was already a bit of trouble generated when some jackass made a poor attempt at a niman impersonation. If someone were to maliciously create confusion and doubt at a critial moment, it could be disasterous for confidence in the Wiki.

johnnystop – at 02:00

If I have to remember one more freaking password….

Many Cats – at 02:02

Breach. Nobody said I could spell… :(

Many Cats – at 02:03

johnnystop: I think *johnnystop* would make a fine password. :)

anon_22 – at 04:59

pogge, due to increasing interest, may I suggest adding a Profiles link at the sidebar?

delphina – at 05:52

Fully agree with the ideas regarding keeping the informal feel of the forum, requiring registration, and adding a Profiles link on the sidebar.

And now for a possibly stupid question: anon_22 wrote at 21:02 yesterday:

“Of course, it always helps if we have folks like fredness, Monotreme, lugon etc etc who tirelessly trawl through the thread for gold nuggets and put them where we can find them.”

Where would we find these “gold nuggets”? Is there a place for collected bits of wisdom on a topic, say “Toilet Paper” (just read the latest, very interesting addition to the TP thread and think it’s very valuable information), which have been condensed into a more readily accessible form, such as a list of “Tips”, or “Good to know” points? Or is this actually the nature of a wiki: there are tasks out there for anyone with initiative who would like to take them on and complete them? (I think I just answered my own question and unwittingly volunteered to be a tireless toilet paper tip trawler!)

anon_22 – at 06:00

Delphina,

“Or is this actually the nature of a wiki: there are tasks out there for anyone with initiative who would like to take them on and complete them?”

Good question! The answer is Yes, it IS the nature of a wiki! If you find some good stuff that is not already in the wiki, you can re-write, copy and paste, copy and edit, etc, and put it on the wiki. Use the How To link on the sidebar for instructions on how to do that. The Wiki Sandbox is a handy place to learn if you are starting out.

delphina – at 06:08

off the sandbox I go!

delphina – at 06:09

oops - “to” the sandbox

Melanie – at 06:14

I hate sock puppets. IP address blocked from further posting. - pogge

Kim – at 06:20

I HATE registering just to be able to read something! Why is it anybody’s business what my name, address, phone number, occupation, income, email addy, favorite color, dog’s name and birthdate, shoe size, and what kind of car I drive the least bit important to simply be able to read something??? Registration turns people off, always too many questions to answer and yet ANOTHER username and password to remember. Unless there are NO personal questions to answer, and it’s made crystal clear that there are no personal questions at the very beginning of the signup, I’ll probably leave the forum because I’m just not giving that info out. And anyway, is anybody dumb enough to give accurate answers to all the questions asked during registration?

And just how, pray tell, would registration discourage spammers and trolls? Is there some magic built into a registration inquisition that weeds them out?

anon_22 – at 06:51

Melanie,

WHAT FUN! FINALLY, POWER IN YOUR HANDS!!!

on second thought, maybe i should go small instead… <shrinking>

lol

gs – at 07:00

Melany, reminds me to aleph0 from curevents … You don’t want to be compared with him/her ?!?

OK, I got the whole old forum here:


http://magictour.free.fr/fw1.gz


14 MB compressed with gzip, 44MB expanded.

Top posters are:

2979 DemFromCT 1656 Grace RN 1447 anonymous 1375 MaMa 1307 gs 1286 crfullmoon 1276 anon_22 1161 Melanie 1092 Eccles 1081 Monotreme 0848 NS1 0818 dubina 0779 Lily 0779 BroncoBill 0732 lugon 0664 Kathy in FL 0651 Hillbilly Bill 0610 Racter 0610 Fla_Medic 0554 Medical Maven 0539 JoeW 0498 April 0496 Tom DVM 0453 Michael Donnelly 0423 niman 0423 Many Cats 0415 Scaredy Cat 0395 Kim 0380 Anne 0378 DennisC 0362 tjclaw1 0348 Name 0340 Watching in Texas 0333 NEMO 0332 pogge 0308 Dubina 0295 hoggie 0284 Peej 0282 viralprotein 0271 Corky52 0269 NW 0266 Sandi 0264 Swann 0264 Michelle 0263 giraffe 0258 Devils Advocate 0257 jack walt 0255 ricewiki 0254 Nikolai-Sydney 0253 Kristy 0248 flourbug 0241 Snowhound1 0240 mom11 0230 EOD 0222 Lorelle 0222 Anastasia 0217 NJ. Preppie 0214 informatic 0210 Okieman 0209 Oremus 0206 rrteacher 0196 Ganygirl 0196 Far Hills 0190 eyeswideopen 0185 Thordawggy 0185 Montanan 0184 Quartzman 0183 Calico 0182 clark 0178 De jure 0177 clv 0175 Jane 0174 M Fox 0169 European 0168 dude 0164 moeb 0162 Tram 0162 JV 0158 Rupert 0158 Lilly 0158 FW 0156 Will 0156 Janet 0153 AnnieB 0151 Worried in the city 0151 BillysBlue 0149 WyomingBill RN 0146 Kristy in CA 0142 sn 0141 neon_answer 0140 NotParanoidBut 0138 Felicia 0134 Top Cat 0133 Mom11 0130 Pilgrim 0130 Marco Italy 0130 keith 0128 Pfwag 0127 Heather 0127 Denniscra 0125 chillindame 0124 TreasureIslandGal 0124 Np1 0124 AussieOne 0123 Cache Cow 0122 Timber 0120 worst case 0117 Allquietonthewesternfront 0114 mother of five 0114 LL 0111 Nikolai---Sydney 0110 Lisa B 0110 Dav 0109 mmmelody47 0108 malachi 0106 Anon 0104 Ceredwin 0103 fredness 0103 AVanarts 0101 Pirategrl 0100 Sherry 0100 Eric from New York 0098 muskrat 0096 Woodstock 0096 Urdar 0096 lauraB 0094 stg 0094 Luke 0092 Worried Well 0092 LexEcon 0092 Joel Z 0089 CK 0087 Michael prairie heretic 0087 Doreen 0083 kc_quiet 0083 kars1995 0083 BP 0082 Nightowl 0081 kristikaylene 0080 hvac 0080 flrish5 0079 Quoth the Raven 0079 Mother of five 0079 Eduk8or 0078 jon c 0077 PanicStricken 0075 NumbersGal 0075 aziraphale 0074 luv2cmwork 0074 Girl 0074 food storage nut 0074 dct249 0073 Simon 0073 pipes 0073 LoveTexas 0073 KyJack 0073 denniscra 0072 Carrey 0071 NP Mom 0070 revere 0069 Rudi Cilibrasi 0068 Will88 0067 Snowy Owl 0066 Thom 0066 kristy 0066 Cloud9 0065 Sivad 0065 Psyberdoc 0064 Bristlecone 0063 clarky90 0062 Petergunn 0061 Patch 0060 Torange 0060 Darlene 0059 PirateGrl 0059 Owl 0059 newguy 0059 Greytpaws 0058 Tall in MS 0058 Indyra 0057 RobertNAtl 0057 retired paramedic MI 0057 LBaum 0057 cel 0056 tc_in_CT 0056 seacoast 0054 Sahara 0053 Urdar- NO 0053 Dar 0052 teresaM 0052 teese 0052 Satago 0052 Mr White42 0052 janetn 0052 flewbie 0051 STH 0050 north of houston 0050 Nanita 0050 lbaum 0048 EmilyH 0048 Bilbo 0048 Aussie 0047 petperson 0047 Kate 0047 John 0046 Laura in PA 0046 jquest 0046 Grimoire 0046 Anita 0045 meb 0045 beans 0045 Alexa 0044 Realist 0044 qkev 0044 mewja 0044 ghost of edgar allan poe 0043 Lollipop 0043 author 0042 Meewee 0042 Guest 0042 cat 0041 Urdar - NO 0041 MileHighRN 0041 ks0985sk 0041 Floridafleur 0041 debp 0040 Ree 0040 Prepping Gal 0040 Pipes 0040 Kathy in OR 0040 Katerina 0040 joseph 0040 Belinda 0039 oric 0039 maryrose 0039 Dr C 0039 Annoyed max-not mad yet 0038 Sarah 0038 Anon47 0037 Wayne 0037 Layperson Indeed 0037 in MN 0037 greenleaf 0037 Doc watgone 0037 Albert 0036 pvdl_Amsterdam 0036 Jersey Girl 0036 holysmoke 0035 RPh 0035 os 0035 Florida1 0035 deb 0035 Birdie 0034 The Doctor 0034 L120 0034 jskol 0034 007 in the USA 0033 whinnie the poo 0033 ponder 0033 DonJuansOtherDaughter 0033 BoonCT 0032 Worried in the City 0032 Path Forward 0032 Olymom 0032 neonanswer 0032 MomInBC 0032 krunchie 0032 Katydid 0031 ukbird 0031 soxandshoes 0031 ANON-YYZ 0030 Jefiner 0030 Eeyore 0030 dirt 0030 BroncoBoncoBillBull 0030 Alexis 0029 Raumo 0029 nancy6075 0029 Major Kioutas 0028 Viralprotein 0028 ssal 0028 NJ Preppie 0028 Nearly Ready 0028 Naomi 0028 deborah 0028 Animal Lover 0027 Worried but NOT in a flap 0027 inthehills 0027 Erika 0027 Deb 0027 Anam 0027 Alan the Pom 0026 scout 0026 peej 0026 Mr Detail 0026 Mike 0026 Mathematician 0026 kmc 0026 Halper 0026 Grace 0026 doc in asheville 0026 carrey 0025 slongo 0025 SaddleTramp 0025 Medical Librarian 0025 MacWanted 0025 Kent Nickell 0025 Jill 0025 Doug 0025 centex 0025 bushcrops 0025 Backpacker 0024 Sonny 0024 skye 0024 RI Mom of 2 0024 Michael 0024 me 0024 jezzabot 0024 Grace Colasurdo RN NJUSA 0024 Edman 0024 Centella 0024 Bridge Lifter 0024 beloml 0023 Slicker 0023 Pulmodoc 0023 northstar 0023 Nautical Man 0023 lottasoxandshoes 0023 Lorellehb 0023 Jerry 0023 Eric 0023 doldrums 0023 DebMcRN 0023 Busy in Bama 0023 AmMan 0022 WhiteSpider 0022 treckie 0022 prodrome 0022 Larry F 0022 johnnystop 0022 Fargo 0022 David Jodrey 0022 callmecrazybut 0022 Anonymous 0021 worried in the city 0021 SoaringEagle 0021 O- 0021 Ms J 0021 Mosaic 0021 Libbyalex 0021 Just me 0021 Ima_Gardener 0021 Humbled 0021 gharris 0021 Eladzuki 0021 DorienCT 0021 Brian 0021 Brenna 0021 beehiver 0021 Angi

anon_22 – at 07:05

gs, I think every forum needs a “aleph0 from curevents”.

I have 2 questions for your post:

1 what was the purpose of that list?
2 where is your name

Also link didn’t work?

Kim – at 07:15

BTW, if registration means listing an accurate email address, forget about it! I already get a MINIMUM 500 spam emails a day, which means I can’t go without checking my email every single day or my mailbox fills up and starts bouncing mail. Having to download my mail each and every day is a pain in the rear, and before I got a good email spam sorter it would take HOURS each day just to go thru the crap. Registration for anything seems to mean “here, take my address and sell it to whoever can send out the most junk email”, regardless of whatever assurances their “privacy policy” might offer. No thanks!

gs – at 07:16

anon_22,the list can be searched for keywords as a referrence. Search for Toilet Paper or such and you get every post where the phrase appears. If you have an appropriate utility - I could write one, if there is need. My name is 2 above your one. 1307 vs.1276 , just do 31 more posts and you got me ;-)

gs – at 07:20

the link should work now. Or wait a while until your server gets it. How about registering as an option ? Registered names are checked with a cookie, unregistered users can only use names, which are not yet registered (or “anonymous”)

anon_22 – at 07:28

“My name is 2 above your one. 1307 vs.1276 , just do 31 more posts and you got me ;-)”

Didn’t see that.

I didn’t think I posted THAT much!!!

gs – at 07:35

I also see now, that I answered joew’s question about posts per week incorrectly. Well, the statistics seaches for string “ - at” , so when you are quoted with this it might count twice.

lugon – at 08:07

gs - great, thanks! now we only need the wiki proper and we can, oh, i don’t know, write a script to adapt the data and create a linux distro with the stuff ready for a browser and a grep command?

DemFromCTat 08:33

Someone is showing why registration is useful by doing a remarkably poor imitation of Melanie.

Melanie – at 08:42

We have this useful little tool called IP banning. Spoofing someone else’s identity takes you there. Goodby, Fake Melanie.

DemFromCTat 08:54

BTw, banning trolls is a necessary poart of any Forum. Add

lauraB – at 10:01

The site bieng sdown for so long makes me wonder - what plans are in place should any of our trusted generals (pogge, DemCT,etc.) should be unavailable to run the site. Obviously you all have taken steps to shelter, stay healthy, etc. but there is the possiblility of still falling ill your SIP’s being out. Is there a back-up in place? I hate the thought of TSHTF and the site not being available!!!!

DemFromCTat 10:12

If TSHTF there will be backup sites, ftp downloads and wiki mirrors… but no central site.

we need some time to set those things up, so we’re screwed if it’s tomorrow… but that was always so.

lauraB – at 10:35

If you do add registration, can you force a “rules” page on new people so that they at least MIGHT take a look at the positing rules? Granted I am sure many of them will just click “next” without reading too much, but it might help, or at least give people a context.

DemFromCTat 10:41

Fewer Forum visits, much more extensive reading habits.

Forum

VISITS

      Total    1,283
Average Per Day 460
Average Visit Length 17:17
Last Hour 71
Today 363
This Week 920
PAGE VIEWS
Total 12,478
Average Per Day 4,320
Average Per Visit 9.4
Last Hour 843
Today 3,839
This Week 8,639

Wiki
VISITS

      Total    841,877
Average Per Day 3,126
Average Visit Length 6:14
Last Hour 112
Today 665
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BroncoBillat 10:45

gs – at 07:00 --- WHAT?!? Y’mean I’ve shot my mouth off 779 times?!? DO NOT tell my wife that!! She’ll agree with you!

BB picks up his muzzle and crawls back to bed…

DemFromCTat 10:47

Note that Flu Wiki has had over 4 million page views. That’s what slows those flat file servers - each page is a separate file.

BroncoBillat 11:02

Kim – at 06:20 and Kim – at 07:15 --- Okay. I gather that you don’t like registration. Fine. I guess you’ve never had to register on any website. Have you ever had to register just to vote? Have you ever had to register just to drive a car?

But here’s what I would envision as a registration process: You first log into the opening page of the Forum. You then have to acknowledge the rules of the Forum with a “I Agree” or “I Disagree” button. If you click Disagree, hello www.disney.com. If you click Agree you’d be taken to a registration page that simply asks you to CREATE a UserID and password. In the background, on the server, this ID would stay and would not be able to be used again by anyone else except you, with your password.

I seriously doubt that the Mods here have any interest in your blood type, first born child, what type of car you drive, your email address, or selling addys to anyone. Part of this ID process is all about security. Spammers currently come into the site and post whatever they want. Anywhere. Anytime. I’ve seen posting that were a hundred lines long for some porn sites…pogge’s been quick to remove them, but they were there. By registering, they could be identified.

As for spam in your email inbox…what type of email program do you use? Why not get a different email address, if spam is such a headache? Do you use a telco ISP, a cable company, or one of the web-based mail accounts, such as Hotmail or Yahoo! mail?

crfullmoon – at 11:44

Bad sock puppets; ban, and no biscuit!

Registration (and a way to edit our own spelling typos!) and a organization way for newcomers to see their question already has a thread, would be nice. I don’t think pogge or Melanie, et al, would be selling/spamming our email addresses.

DemFromCTat 12:02

I don’t think pogge or Melanie, et al, would be selling/spamming our email addresses.

Nope.

Path Forward – at 12:33

Re: “fake Melanie” – at 06:14 and “Many Cats” at 01:55 —

From past experience, I know that Pogge can tell whether a posting is coming from the seasonal(usual) ISP of a frequent poster or from a novel ISP of either a pretender, or from the real poster who is posting from a different computer.

The issue of trust in the Flu Wiki’s moderators and frequent posters is significant enough that those posters (Dem, Melanie, Pogge, Monotreme, Anon-22, lugon, etc.) might want to participate in a voluntary registration protocol, so that no one else can post using those names.

This could also be voluntary for any poster who does not want to see their posting name hijacked.

(And don’t even think of it. Dem, Melanie, Revere and Pogge KNOW WHO I AM!!)

DemFromCTat 12:44

That’s a great idea, PF. The issue will be the software… with some, register and you get a unique name like DemFromCT, don’t register and you show up as Guest. Similar to everyone in the Forum being labelled ‘anonymous’.

“Hey, anonymous, good point.” “Yes, anonymous, I thought so.” “Thanks, anonymous, but I disagree….”

Maybe in honor of monty python we all register as Bruce?

Lily – at 13:45

A valid E-Mail and password in order to post makes a great deal of sense. Also caution people to think over the title of a new thread to be more speficic, and think twice so as not to gum up the Wiki. I don’t think that is unreasonable. And checking out E-Mail to start a identity is not gumming up anyones E-Mail. The password does make sure you are who you say you are.

pogge – at 14:16

with some, register and you get a unique name like DemFromCT, don’t register and you show up as Guest.

And with some boards, registered users can edit their own posts but anonymous users can’t.

BroncoBillat 14:16

Lily – at 13:45 --- Good point. Link the userID (email address) to the person’s online alias so that the email address doesn’t show up as the poster’s name. To register:

That would keep people from hijacking your name, and help cut down on spam. We’ll still see some, but maybe a lot of it would simply go away. And with a VALID email address, the Mods could pull from those listing to announce important informatioin to all Wikians who are serious about keeping up-to-date…I for one do not believe they would ever sell (or even give away) our addresses.

Mods—For the record, I’d like to be the first to register on this site. Just let me know when it’s available…

DemFromCTat 14:19

it’s not something we’re building, it’s something we’re looking for in off-the-shelf apps. So there might be some trade-offs.

Bruceonthewesternfront – at 14:20

I think registering is a great idea and would definitely trim the fat.

The Flu Master – at 14:21

Now, I just feel compelled to say a few things. My apologies right up front if I overstep my bounds, or if I am posting to the wrong thread.

FluWiki is great. Probably the best H5N1 Collection/Resource out there on the Internet. A bit hard to navigate maybe, could be easier to find ones way around, but hey with all the publicity its getting its a blessing for humanity. No kidding.

My disbelief however to its forum. I am a member of every sensible major H5N1 Forum/Message Board on the internet, and I can do it in two languages. I run my own local Flu Pandemic Message Board, and have successfully been running unrelated Forums/Message Boards for more then 7 years now, including several in PHP, but I have never seen such a great and exquisite site, having such a lousy, messy, confusing, outdated, low-standard, dysfunctional, uninviting, unaccommodating, old-fashioned, low-tech, and finally ridicules (yeah, I know I forgot a few).

I know very little about php. But if I can have a better forum on my site, you can. You have the best H5N1 site in the world. You have the best and most publicity. You deserve to have the best forum as well.

Should you (the owners, moderators, publishers, etc.) not care about having the best Forum along with the best H5N1 Site, or even worse not even care having the best H5N1 Site, then please do me and a lot of others a personal favor and do it for us, because I and many others would love to come here every day and enjoy the best H5N1 Site along with the best H5N1 Forum.

Now, a few words to DemFromCT, who is the only one I recognize as the, or one of the, owners of FluWiki. I normally don’t read any group political postings, but when I do it’s usually from Dem.

In a number of postings I see you (DemFromCT) make references to rules against political or partisan postings. I too think that is a good idea, as this is not the place for such discussions. Unfortunately, when I first joined FluWiki the first name that caught my eye was “DemFromCT”, which I interpreted as “Democrat From Connecticut”, a very partisan and political name. I also associated you as owner of FluWiki, and that immediately gave FluWiki a political and partisan flavor.

Of course, my interpretation could have been wrong, but I think it is an easy one to make.

As I am a member of many Forums/Message Boards I have different screen name for different topics/subjects Forums/Message Boards. For all Flu related matters I obviously use “TheFluMaster”, for all Spiritual related matters I use a more “Spiritual” related name, etc.

In any case, a less political screen name, might help to keep a new Forum less political.

I hope I haven’t stepped on too many feet, but I sure do feel better now…

Blessings,

Mister E.


Arizona Pandemic Help And Support Group

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PandemicFlu/

“Chance Favors The Prepared Mind”

Scaredy Cat – at 15:28

I am opposed to registration. I understand the rationale for it, but personally, if I have to register to use a site, I usually don’t. It’s a nuisance, it seems a personal intrusion, and from comments others have made, I gather it is not a surefire solution to spam, etc.

I think the closer you can keep the new forum to the old forum, the better. A big part of the Flu Wiki forum appeal, IMO, is the spontaneous, sometimes madcap, free interchange of knowledge, ideas, opinions. I also don’t think you should over-organize. I hate that in Curevents and Flutrackers. Good places to get info, but they’re so constipated and controlled. And dull.

What you have has worked. (Hasn’t it?) So why not try to replicate that as closely as possible.

As far as someone spoofing Monotreme or Anon_22 or NS1 and thereby undermining their credibility, I think a new reader wouldn’t “know” them well enough to put much stock in what they say anyway, and an oldtimer would realize something was up. Actually, even the spoofing adds to the appeal of the site. They’re always so crude and so obvious. Good for some laughs, and they never get away with it for long. If the spoofee doesn’t nail them, someone else does.

Whichever way you go there will be tradeoffs. With registration there may be more control, but I think there will be fewer posters.

DemFromCTat 15:53

The Flu Master – at 14:21

Thanks for your comments. The trouble is many of the so-called ‘best’ sensible major H5N1 Forum/Message Boards all look the same and, frankly, are somewhat indistinguishable. after you’ve been to a few, you don’t know where you are. They have plusses and minuses which is why I want everyone to go look.

We may have to go that route. If we do, so be it.

PS I’m not changing my name.

Lily – at 15:55

Oh spell check. I type so quickly and lose so many of my $1 glasses that I can’t make out my mistakes before I print them into the slightly larger posts. Of course I should pay attention to syntax too, but there is no correction for that except to retype the whole post.As I usually write longhand and keep a blank page for corrections and rewrites. Habits are hard to break. I’m used to thinking quickly and its out on a page. I wonder why registration would make for fewer posters. All anyone need do is get a innocuous E-Mail address, and then they have one more layer of anonymity. I guess I am still naive about the internet.

pogge – at 15:55

I also don’t think you should over-organize.

You’ve hit on one of the fundamental contradictions I’m seeing in the feedback we’re getting. The “stream of consciousness” effect, as one person put it, is at least partly the result of having a single forum — one flat list of threads where the most popular bubble up to the top. But others have asked for multiple forums — or subforums — so that threads can be categorized and searched more easily. The two don’t necessarily go together.

In my travels thus far, I’ve seen exactly one message board that has a nice Today’s Active Topics page which lists all the active topics regardless of the forum they’re in (and there are at least two dozen different forums on that board). Unfortunately that particular platform doesn’t seem to be available any more.

lugon – at 16:28

I want to post.

We don’t want to annoy unfrequent but valuable posters.

Torange – at 16:41

Have capability for non text attachments. Engineering drawings. Pictures. Vidios. Software. Etc.

Dedicated links section with subject, comments, and links.

lugon – at 16:49

pogge, you go deep into the “what we really want/need” question.

Let’s think of this as a story.

In comes my neighbour, wanting to learn what’s all the fuss about, and ready to ask a handful of questions (most have been answered already). Hey, we might not even want a forum at all, just a webchat page where people are received and helped in real time.

Ok, but no-one is available to chat with newcomers, or I’m really interested in what all others (available for a webchat or not) have been writing about recently, so in I go. What do I want to see?

Why would I want to search? Would I want a list of all the forum threads with the word “mask” on them? Only in recent threads?

What makes for a noisy forum, one so noisy it becomes unusable?

lugon – at 16:54

Who are the world experts in web forum software?

lugon – at 16:54

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum

JoeWat 16:57

I can’t decide if it is the forum structure, the moderators or the people (we are a more mature bunch relative to some of the other boards. FluTrackers is a nice board and there are some reasonably good people there with a definite focus. None-the-less the interactions are not as lively as on FluWiki. There do seem to be some people who are pretty far out. FluWiki also has its share of people who are “out there” and they seem to get “controlled” by the mass inundations or reasonableness. For now I can only conclude that this is due to the Wiki push down files.

BTW FluTrackers has a pushdown system if one uses it and the most recent topics can be easily accessed. Given this, it still does not have the ambiance of FluWiki. The moderators are good and in general less likely to chastise others (not casting aspersions here just noting ideas in passing). FluWiki continues to attract good people and I note that most are glad to be back in the “community” forum.

Part of the reason that people come here has to do with all of the good information in the Wiki. and the contributions by people who know what they are talking about undoubtedly draws competent posters and others who are looking for the best info. But the same could be said for Effect Measure.

In my opinion it is a combination of all of these factors and the bubbling topics are an essential ingredient that adds to the stew. It may not be the meat but it is the spice that leads people to want more. I would recommend not changing the forum structure. Taking away Dusty Springfield’s graveling voice would leave you with an excellent vocalist who was not Dusty Springfield and not much different than many other vocalists. To be great all the little ingredients are needed and Flu Wiki is great, I suggest proceeding with a great deal of caution.

Note by the way that Effect Measure is undoubtedly a great blog but they do not attract the lively interaction that goes on here. Comments (lively at times) are good and topics are relatively easy to track, none the less the freewheeling focused multiple dialogs while possible are not quite the same. Effect Measure does of course attract a more knowledible group who are less likely to be intimidated by “education.”

lugon – at 17:00

Reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum

Maybe we want to have some general threads available (news, help, wiki-usage), and only allow registered users (who would have to read some suggestions as to why and how to create new threads) to create new threads? Suggestions:ç like look at the sorted list of already open threads + see if there’s a Yourplace-preppers etc.

Other than that, the flatest the better, IMO.

(Oldest forum software was The Well. There were opensource clones …)

JoeWat 17:12

On Using the FluWiki Forum

I am not sure how to express this but I will try. I find that I click on the Forum and determine what everyone is talking about after reading the news summaries. Then I read a few threads that seem of interest and may or not comment. Next, I find I often track someone I know, just to see what they are up to today. I listen in, may or not comment and then go away. I have found myself commenting on women’s issues, guns and roses, and other topics where I would not have thought I would have contributed. Of course, for me, there is a need to check the humor to keep myself on some sort of even keel. This potential pandemic is definitely scary and it is good to see that I am not alone in my own silliness, hence it is good to read what others (who are also afraid) are thinking today.

Usually the top ten topics are all I need to check. Once in awhile I need to go look up some past thread to “catch up” on the current discussion or to educate myself. Most of all the posts seem more like a conversation than anywhere else I go and read. It is as though I know and can check in on the people of interest. Now how do you keep all this with a new style forum? I don’t know but perhaps one use’rs input will help you come to some conclusions.

DemFromCTat 17:52

Thank you all. All of the comments and suggestion have been extremely helpful. Keep ‘em coming.

lugon – at 18:15

Looking at the forum topics index (which we’re going to keep) + the threads we’re not going to keep (at least not in full light), and thinking in terms of “communication or conversation space” …

We talk about:

  1. wiki proper
    • user issues (how do I find such and such?)
    • keeping our focus (what are we doing now?)
    • working around a specific page or set of pages
    • translation
  2. news of the day (maybe no need to classify further)
    • cases
    • utterances by people
    • rumors
  3. science (understanding, explaining)
    • past pandemics
    • current knowledge
    • current research
  4. communication
    • risk communication - alerting others
    • dealing with adjustment reactions (ours’, others’)
  5. prepping
    • at home
    • community general
    • community geographic
    • strategies (do masks work, etc)
    • recipies
    • resilience technology
  6. chat
    • welcome to newbies
    • humour
    • how to keep in touch (phone conferences, irc chat, etc)
    • general chat

Maybe we want a page so we may play around with such a classification, until we get it right? What makes sense for all or for most of us? Some threads are volatile …


BUT (a big, capital, bold “but”): Maybe a pre-classification would stop us from growing a better understanding - i.e., better classifications cannot emerge after we have a working one. It might be good to have a way to create topics and then “tag” them somehow, so they may be sorted?

Probably some things are clear enough and can be “boundaried” so they don’t clutter the rest: “prepping in your geographic place”, “news and comments on news for yyyymmdd”, etc.


We want a way to “redirect content”: things appear as an off-topic but we may want to put on our co-facilitator hat and copy-and-paste that content to the apropriate thread.

lugon – at 18:30

(example of “redirect content”)

from http://www.fluwikie2.com/pmwiki.php?n=Forum.WikiFocus20060422 I select the following:

23 April 2006 AnnieB – at 17:35

The “Return to Main Forum Page” is at the bottom of this thread but is missing from all the others I have visited today. Could you please find a way to get this link placed at the bottom of each thread again - it makes life so much simpler.

BTW, I avoid sites that require registration so I love the way this Wiki just lets me get on with contributing ;-)

lugon – at 18:29

Ok, maybe people can select a username and not mind if it’s used by others. At irc you can use any available username; if you want it all for yourself then you (must) register.

lugon – at 18:49

This is what I wanted to stress: you can use any available username; if you want it all for yourself then you (must) register. That would be the best solution regarding registering and usability. If it can be done at all, that is. :)

Scaredy Cat – at 18:54

I think the new forum index should solve the problem of searching the forum for specific information.

And even if you do go for a more “organized” forum, there are bound to be valuable nuggets of info that still get lost in a thread that has a different focus. (Unless, of course, you follow the lead of hmm hmm hm hmm and mete out harsh and quick discipline.)

For those who want more categories and forums and sub-forums, they can go to Curevents or FlutRackers. i don’t mean go away and not come back, but go there for that and come here for this.


Flu Wiki reminds me of a really great restaurant. What makes a really great restaurant? Good food, obviously, but much more. Sometimes I’ll take a restaurant with comfortable seating over the one with superior food. If the lighting’s not too harsh, if the music is lively, but unobtrusive (think Starbucks). Speaking of Starbucks, it occurred to me recently that the insane success of that chain might be due to (besides some addictive substance i am sure they put in their coffee) their similarity to European sidewalk cafes. Great place to chat with people, or be alone and yet not feel lonely. The atmosphere is unlike anything here in the states (until Starbucks came along).

But anyway, the ingredients for success are there, but sometimes there is an ingredient you can’t quite put your finger on. It’s just magical. And sometimes trying to overly fuss with a formula can lead to problems, because you’re messing with a magic that you don’t even understand.

In the smallish, no biggish, town I live in, there was a little restaurant that was a fantastic success. It was in a terrific location (airport, with view of runway), good lighting, comfortable booths, great food, blah, blah, blah. But it was too small. If the owners could get a bigger place, they could sell a lot more food. At least that was the thinking. And so after looking at several different places, the owners finally sold and moved to a bigger building a few blocks away. That turned out to be a huge miscalculation. The new building was (still is) charming on the outside. Looks like a something from a fairy tale. But inside it is so dark. Not only that, the owners thought their fly-in clientele was so loyal that they’d walk to the new location. Did not happen. The restaurant is still open. But struggling.

So if I were you, I would only change what I must. You are Starbucks, you are golden.

lugon – at 19:30

I’ve been thinking along the same line as Scaredy Cat - minus the great metaphore.

Maybe pmwiki can have a fixed number of threads? Simply store old ones as wikipages? Only registered users can create new threads? Play with things until we hit a wall and are able to say “magic lost here”? (Maybe just a thought experiment.)

DemFromCTat 19:46

we will only change when and where we must. But the previous situation was unacceptable, and I want to understadn what we are doing to make a long term fix that’ll work.

BroncoBillat 20:14

lugon – at 18:49 --- ‘’you can use any available username…’

As long as, upon coming to the site, if some hacker/spammer tries to use an already-registered name, they get a big, fat Sorry. That name is already in use.

Just another 2 pennies from the corner of BB

BroncoBillat 20:30

Another couple of pennies here: If a user registers on the site and picks out a specific username, they shouldn’t be able to come back in and re-register with a second, nefarious ID. Some type of countermeasure such as tying the user to their originating IP address, such as pogge and Melanie do now with spammers.

May not work in all cases, as some will log on from different locations, but it’s worth a shot…

newore – at 21:48

issue with “create new topic” on fluwikie2:

looking at the top of the page I see a button “create new topic”. This is the first time I contemplate making a new topic. I push the button. I go to……

a page called “create new topic” (someone has hijacked the button ???) or ???

am I correct in this observation?

I’ll probably just try stuffing an url at the wiki (when all else fails).

argghh

DemFromCTat 21:54

Yes, you’re right. Fill the ‘create new topic’ box with your new post title. if you don’t, and push the button anyway, you’ll create a new forum thread named… create new topic.

newore – at 22:09

flashing fingers disease: reading buttons, skipping instructions.

wiki will forgive me, heh.

if it was me I would have put “type forum topic name here” inside the button. oh well. url stuffing worked, too.

Kim – at 22:23

Despite all the pro-registration comments I’ve seen, no one has answered my question… what magic is employed by a registration that will prevent spammers and trolls? I can assure you that spammers have what seem to be zillions of email addresses at their disposal, each of which can be used until it is banned then just move on to their next email address.

As far as spoof postings where the posters identity is highjacked, I’ve only seen that happen with Melody. It’s not rampant enough to warrant any changes.

I’m also opposed to posters being able to go back and modify their posts. If I read something once, I surely don’t want to have to go in and read it again just because the poster decided they wanted to change the spelling of “nad” to “and”. And if someone has said to do something this way, and later decides that another way is better, I’d like to be able to know that without having the post magically modified.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

DemFromCTat 22:29

It’s also happened with niman and Medical Maven, for the record. But the main point remains. this forum is fine at the moment but won’t scale up well. Some ‘solutions’ i.e. different programs will require registration, some don’t. if registration is required, spammers can still spam but ‘bots (automatic programs) can’t.

Appreciate your comments, Kim. i’d not change anything if we didn’t have to.

Ricewiki – at 23:02

Forum Scalability: speed of loading and access (sometimes late at night I find it hard to load up — at least, the old forum, that is.)

-no need for registration in my opinion. undesirable.

-Ability to put simple punctuation and acronyms in thread titles

Ricewiki – at 23:05

This has already been discussed, but I wouldn’t change, if at all possible, this basic organization/structure of the forum.

I have never ever particpated in any forums/chats/bulletin boards as much as I have here, and I know it has something to do with the organization/stucture.

It’s just intuitive for understanding the flow of topics and discussion. Easy to jump in and join. Perfect!

Tom DVM – at 23:05

The one thing I would like that we don’t have is spell check. It is embarrassing to look at what I have written and no matter how hard I try, a few words always get by me.

pogge – at 23:39

I hate to be a party-pooper but I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a message board with spell-check. The only remedy I can offer is to compose your posts in a program that does have it, and then copy and paste them into the forum.

BroncoBillat 23:52

Tom DVM – at 23:05 --- Don’t be embarrassed. I’m usually a stickler for correct spelling (my Mom was a spelling nut), and I usually catch mispelled <sp?> words at a glance, but there our times tat I cant spel woth a lik.!! ;-) I call it “fat-fingering the keyboard”, and we’re all guilty of it at some time or another…

I think, really, spell check isn’t a neccessity here…everybody pretty much knows what someone else is trying to convey in their message…unless they’re speaking Martian or Moonian…then everybody pretty much says a collective “HUH?”. :-)

Spell-Check generally only resides in stand-alone Word Processing and Email programs, like MS Word, MS Outlook, or web-based email programs like Hotmail, Yahoo! and GoogleMail. These are all word-processing-based programs…

Tom DVM – at 23:55

pogge. Thanks. I’m not very good with computers but I may try it…otherwise, it’s a good way to improve my grammar.

Tom DVM – at 23:57

BroncoBill. Thanks.

24 April 2006

anonymous – at 00:07

HI everyone,

I started out at fluwiki. Terribly missed you guys when you was down. Went to Avian flu Forum. And had a terrible time there. Was glad that you guys were up and running again. We had to register to post a reply there. Thats okay I registered. But what end up happenning afterwards was very annoying. Something to do with having to many ip addresses. Well everytime i turn off my computer and sign back on I get a new ip address it isn’t my fault. Its just the security feature my computer has. Well then the administrator stopped me from posting. Okay i read the posts for a while. But wanted to post so I contacted the Administrator he supposely fixed the problem. Then next thing I knew it said I had the wrong Username and wrong password. I write these down and had the correct ones. So I tryed registering. That was a big no no. To make a long story short. I have not used their forum anymore. To complicated.

Please for the sake of everyone do what you got to do to keep this forum running the way you want it to …But remember we need access to this forum for the knowlege.

Thanks everyone…Birdwatcher.

anon_22 – at 04:06

Dem,

I agree with what JoeW and Scardy et al said about ambiance etc, and would caution against making changes to the active forum. Instead, I think we should try to find ways to tidy up after-the-fact. For example, if the number of files on the forum is a problem, can we put all inactive posts in an read-only archive after say 6 weeks (or however many weeks depending on traffic)?

I’m not IT-literate enough to know whether that would reduce the number of files. It would be even better if there is a way for someone to re-activate an archived thread should the issue become relevant again, so that the issues are connected, AND you don’t have yet another thread.

Obviously you can’t have this function be available for everyone cos it would defeat the purpose of the archive but let’s say someone who wants to do that will have to email the mods with what they want to post and the final decision is with the mods. Would that work?

Here’s a dummy’s IT question: if I travel around (which I do, a lot), is my IP address different every time I go to a new location? In that situation, would the server not accept my username and password? Although I haven’t had problems with subscription sites etc.

anon_22 – at 04:11

Also, if registration does not stop spam, would it be correct to say that the only important function left would be to make sure that people are who they say they are? If that is the case, optional registration might be a good way to go, at least for a start, so that those who are more concerned about protecting against fakes can register. That way, we don’t have to put off the people who wander in and have only one question and can’t be bothered to register, (which again, would have included me.)

gs – at 04:26

I’m also for optional registration. The problem with the many files looks like a weakness of the pmwiki-software, I didn’t observe this elsewhere

lugon – at 06:08

Registration should be optional. Here we’re used to judging content by itself, not by who says it.

If the number of files is what is the problem, then we need:

We need to think of several scenarios:

  1. Now it’s mostly quiet, or growing steadily. Say 5% monthly increase and 5% newbies.
  2. At some points in time there will be “false positives”, with surges in attention and then back to normal. Say 50% weekly increase and 30% newbies.
  3. When the feared pandemic starts, we will have lots of attention and input. Say 100% daily increase and 99% newbies.

Scenario 1 needs no fix. Fluwikie1 + Fluwikie2 seem to work and we need little else for our purposes.

Scenario 2 should be dealt with just using our (yes, I want to paypal too) one or two servers.

Scenario 3 … I can’t imagine it running on anything that’s not as powerful as wikipedia itself. They had their Tsunami so they know more than we do. By “powerful” I don’t know what I mean: more computers, more bandwidth, more mirrors, etc.

The three scenarios need an upgrade if we are to have translations.

Multiply that by wiki+forum and I think we get the full picture.

we all walk around the table, looking thoughtful but really just blocked, until someone bursts out laughing and says …

anon_22 – at 06:13

“Only registered users can create a new thread.”

Yes, I think so.

“When the feared pandemic starts, we will have lots of attention and input. Say 100% daily increase and 99% newbies.”

ftp mirror sites? Would that take some of the pressure off?

DemFromCTat 06:35

The problem with the many files looks like a weakness of the pmwiki-software

it is.

ftp mirror sites? Would that take some of the pressure off?

It would, but would be static and not reflect what’s going on in the other wikis. Everything would become local.

lugon – at 06:08

today’s news get old as soon as there’s a new today’s news.

There were requests for old news threads (i.e. about turkey) to track the then-and-now. You never know what people want to preserve. But I hope everyone’s reading lugon’s summary posts here and here.

gs – at 07:39

the new forum as of about 5 hours ago is here:


http://magictour.free.fr/fw2.gz


(520 KB, some overlaps with the old forum fw1)
maybe I can update this once a week or such.

lugon – at 07:44

Could old-threads be preserved in the wiki-proper, under saved-forum.*? Nah, I guess that doesn’t make sense, or does it?

Or, wait, only in downloadable format, for those who want to mine the data? Or, if it’s static pages, then make it into static pages and serve that, sans the wiki edit-this stuff that’s presently around the content.


Re everything would become local, one (stepping stone) idea was maybe we could have most of the wiki as a read-only, with links to the same page at central-wiki for the few who want to edit, and with a set of ourlocalpages.* which would be fully editable locally (and would remain even after weekly or daily upgrade of the main mirrored stuff).

Of course this is probably quite tricky (if it’s doable at all) and should be, pre-assessed, set up, and tried well in advance. Someone please photocopy Pogge! :) Anyone wants to lurk in the pmwiki developers’ lists and maybe ask (politely) such questions there?

lugon – at 07:46

gs, we were writing in parallel.

This virus is nasty, but so are we.

lugon – at 07:55

http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/Cookbook leads to http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/ICalExport which might (or might not) serve as a template to create an “export old-forum-entries to static-pages” somehow.

Now, I don’t know if static pages would solve the problem. They would be linked to from someplace in the wiki. They would be served by Apache or whatever.

Old forum threads would then be effectively frozen, maybe even searchable etc. And the conversation space would be alive (and kicking).

lugon – at 07:56

Easier said than done, of course.

DemFromCTat 07:57

So we don’t talk past each other:

DemFromCTat 08:02

Static read-only pages are still files. Links mean reading the files. Doesn’t solve the problem unless on a third server. So, archiving it as gs has done may be the solution. Want them? Download them. Otherwise, we take them off line.

lugon – at 08:13

Yup. Thanks.

lugon – at 08:15

But reading the files - is that not an Apache issue, rather than a pmwiki issue? Ok, I don’t know.

And yes, I’d rather keep the lively chat available, and the rest downloadable - maybe in chunks or whatever. And of course those chunks would be in some other servers, with as many easy-to-set-up mirrors as needed.

DemFromCTat 10:30

gs has already done us a service with his links, it should be acknowledged.

BroncoBillat 11:01

I’m here to help.

Let’s look at the file structure of the Wiki as if we’re looking at a brand new, empty, preps list. As you add to the list, it takes longer to go through everything. You add 10 items on Monday, and add 10 items each day for the next two weeks, and now you’ve got about 140 items to go through. Continue adding 10 items for the next 6 months, and now you’ve got over 1800 items to go through. Takes a lot more time than when you started.

This is exactly the same as the PMWiki software. What started out as a relatively small forum has grown exponentially by folks creating new threads. Each new thread is another file (prep item) that has to be stored and searched through every time someone comes aboard. Up until last Saturday, WikiOne had over 2500 seperate forum files (prep items) that had to be searched through every time a user logged on…1 user, 1 search of 2500 files. 100 users, 100 searches of 2500 files at the same time.

That, in a nutshell, is what brought the Wiki to it’s knees. Not Apache, not Windows, not the server. It was, in this case, the application that we are all using here…PMWiki. Because it creates a new, seperate file each time someone opens a new thread, the Wiki software gets bogged down by all these “prep items” that have to be sorted by name, date, updates, etc.

Then you have the problem of a very active file (most-wanted prep item) being used and manipulated by several people at once. That confuses the Wiki software enough that it slows down for everybody, so that it can figure out what’s going on. Then the timeouts start ‘cuz almost all web-based software is designed NOT to wait too long to find what the user is looking for.

Sorry if I stepped on toes, or overstepped boundaries here

BB goes back to his corner, counting his bytes as he goes…

Lily – at 11:23

I was shocked to see how often I post. I’ll think twice before jumping in. I think the mean spirited sock puppet who used Melanies name should reallly enure that the wiki needs some form of registration. It was like Punch whacking at Judy over and over, actually painful to read. I stopped as soon as I realized what it was. Othwise it is as bad as some talk radio which is pretty crude stuff. American life in the raw is one thing, I think this site is well above and beyond that sort of trash mouthed garbage. Mostly pretty well mannered guests here. Its one thing to be a diamond in the rough, its another to be fools gold.

Lily – at 11:26

correction, if we had spell check like curevents, ensure that the wiki needs some form of registration. 2nd typo Otherwise is becomes as bad as some talk radio. Sooorrrryyyy.

pogge – at 11:43

But reading the files - is that not an Apache issue, rather than a pmwiki issue?

No, it’s a PmWiki issue. You can run the platform on Apache, Lighttpd or IIS - any web server that supports PHP. But you need PmWiki to actually look at the page content. (You can load the files into a text editor but it won’t make for easy reading — trust me on that.)

pogge – at 11:46

if registration does not stop spam

It stops the automated spam which accounts for most of the spam we’ve seen. We’ve stopped it for the moment here on the forum because we’ve broken the links they were relying on. But they’ll catch up with us again.

Registration wouldn’t stop the determined trolls or the human spammers but that’s what moderators are for.

pogge – at 11:52

Sorry if I stepped on toes…

No, you’ve summed things up pretty nicely. Our experience has been that you can run this application at high traffic and with high page counts by throwing massive amounts of hardware at it. But it doesn’t really make sense to do that in the long run if you can serve more people for less expense with a different platform.

Late yesterday evening I removed all the forum threads from Server No. 1 and it’s noticeably more responsive. At least from this vantage point. So it seems that with average hardware, the page count makes a definite difference.

pogge – at 12:11

I’ve seen exactly one message board that has a nice Today’s Active Topics page

Quoting myself. I lied. phpBB has a Today’s Active Topics page.

BroncoBillat 12:12

pogge—I just noticed that the Last 50 Changes link on the WikiOne Main page is still pointed to the forum list on that server. Are you gonna point that link to WikiTwo anytime soon?

pogge – at 12:19

If you mean the links to individual forum threads, I was just going to let them drop off the page as other pages are edited.

The Last 50 Changes is just an extract from the Site.AllRecentChanges page which is automatically maintained by the software. Each site has its own version of that page. The two installations don’t “know” anything about each other.

NJ. Preppie – at 12:22

Just noticed on the Top Poster list, that if you put “dubina” numbers with “Dubina” numbers, he has 1074 posts; right behind Eccles. What happened to Dubina? He seems to be gone since March 1.

BroncoBillat 12:22

Okay. Thank you sir.

gs – at 12:46

Lily,I think we shouldn’t be so much concerned about typos or irrelevant posts or nonsense posts. Don’t discourage people to post, being afraid it could be low-quality. Better improve the filtering, to find the posts which you are interested in.
Pogge, I was also wondering about dubina - could have changed names - but I didn’t find anyone matching her views

Scaredy Cat – at 13:10

I miss dubina (and I thought he was a guy). DUBINA, WHERE ARE YOU?

JoeWat 13:23

Comments from the loyal opposition - I am of the opinion that people should be willing to stand by their words. It makes you think twice before opening your mouth when you are personally (by name) accountable. The discussion is more “thoughtful.” And, there are fewer hot wired comments (I like that phrase).

None-the-less, I can also appreciate the perceived needs that some people have for anonymity. To encourage self-identification I recommend optional registration. I would like to recommend no new thread except by registered posters, but that is probably going too far. I do think that “Anonymous” should not be allowed to start a new thread. It is merely polite to give oneself a handle (that is part of the community). There is no need to wreck the current setup by discouraging posts and the troll, spam problem has not been too bad as seen from my laptop.

DemFromCTat 13:54

JoeW – at 13:23

Comments from the loyal opposition always welcomed. Splitting the wiki buys us time to work this through in a transparent fashion.

Jane – at 14:46

Is it worthwhile (or even possible?) to presort the threads as is done on another board I frequent? Ie, power supply, food-buying/storage, food-canning, food-recipes, security, water, predictions-politics, medical-supplies, medical-practices/care of family, medical-probabilities/severity, gardening.

Having categories might make the Wiki reading itself faster (you can tell how little I know about this), but it would ruin the bubble-up feature, wouldn’t it?

Also, is it still true that nothing will be erased or unavailable to read after culling?

BroncoBillat 14:55

Jane - at 14:46 --- I think what you’re looking for is the Forum Index. That’s up on the left side bar, and does a great job of listing most of the threads by category.

DemFromCTat 15:20

Nothing will be erased… it’s in storage or you can download it yourself.

http://magictour.free.fr/fw1.gz

JoeWat 15:32

Hey Dem your starting to sound like that computer that kicks in every fourth time through the loop - - - nothing will be erased, nothing will be erased, nothing will be erased . . .

Couldn’t resist, the phrase fits too well. I know that you have to repeat every so often because people miss it :-)

DemFromCTat 16:37

I have to repeat every so often because people miss it.

I have to repeat every so often because people miss it.

I have to repeat every so often because people miss it.

I have to repeat every so often because people miss it.

click whirrr

bird watcher – at 16:57

I like how everyone gets along. Hashes things out. And makes a really nice place to visit and read all the forums. DemFromCt I like the way you handle things.

anon_22 – at 17:10

DemFromCt I like the way you handle things.”

Second that!

Second that!

Second that!

Second that!

BroncoBillat 17:20

bird watcher – at 16:57 --- DemFromCt I like the way you handle things.

He’s a pretty moderate moderator. Pretty nice guy, too…

BB goes away now, hoping people don’t think he said Pretty Moderator..

anon_22 – at 17:22

Did you just say Pretty Moderator?

BroncoBillat 17:25

LOL!! I didn’t hear that! Actually, I’ve never met the man…ya never know…LMAO!!!

mmmelody47 – at 17:44

I heard him! He definitely said Pretty Moderator.

pogge – at 18:11

Damn! Now I have to fix Dem as well. Maybe I should build a Dem2.

DemFromCTat 18:13

LOL!!

DemFromCTat 18:14

“Unhappy macnam.”

Shades of Firesign Theatre.

BroncoBillat 21:43

DemFromCT – at 15:20 --- Okay…I d/l’d the file, but not sure what a .gz file is associated with. I’m running WinXP, so is there any kind of conversion I need to do in order to the view the file from http://magictour.free.fr/fw1.gz

Okay….yer perty! LOL! :-/

DemFromCTat 21:55

I just used text edit on a Mac. We will ned to ask gs what he uses.

gharris – at 22:35

Tom DVM re spellcheck - Google Toolbar (free download from Google) has a spell check feature that lets you check postings you have typed in web pages - The google toolbar rests at the top of your page just under the ‘address’ bar and makes it easy for searches too - I use it all the time in my writing research. Hope this helps you!

BroncoBillat 23:19

pogge – at 18:11 --- Maybe I should build a Dem2.

Then you could name him CloneDem. (Cloned ‘em)

Sorry. BB crawls back into the basement, waiting for “meteoric” fallout…

gs – at 23:44

I had gzip.exe in my path since long. It’s the common LINUX/UNIX version of “.zip”. A quick google-search gave e.g.:


http://www.o-bible.com/gzip.html


how to download+install it. Most browsers should decompress .gz files automatically. I also uploaded fw.exe, a little search-utility for these files, it’s still experimental and maybe not working correctly yet, it will be improved the next days, also maybe some more features can be added. C-source attached to the executable or at http://magictour.free.fr/fw.c

25 April 2006

lugon – at 05:35

I guess winzip does the trick too http://www.winzip.com

Hey, folks - I bet WHO people are really envious of our forum - so much friendliness + high quality content + advanced new hypothesis. Then they should install pmwiki in their intranet(s)! And recruit pogge if he doesn’t mind. ;)

lugon – at 05:39

We may want a way to make some threads “stick”. Seen it in a couple of forumplaces and we do need it when people start creating new topics that we’re just not interested in. Two ways around this:

lugon – at 05:42

Oops! I say “two ways” and then I list four. I switch into “alternatives mode” and then it gets difficult to stop!

gs – at 06:24

just these features, which you have at curevents or flutrackers or avianflutalk. This can still be improved… In principle you can do everything when you have all the posts offline in a big computer-readable file, just a small program to do it. (if there are no bugs…) Tell me, when you have ideas for my archive-file.

lugon – at 06:37

I’m confident about this: if we move to a different software for the forum we will try to tune it to our needs. Maybe we want one that is very flexible?

gs,

How did you create the big file? Downloaded each and every thread? I’ve downloaded pmwiki and the flatfiles can be looked at individually (not one big file), grepped (a unix word roughly meaning “search for a text string in each file”), and of course joined. Actually, each flatfile keeps the history so we’d want to filter that first, to make it into a real current-content-only file. This would allow for “text mining”.

gs – at 06:50

yes, I downloaded each thread with wget and then converted the html with htmstrip. Can you put the pmwiki files in one big archive and offer for download ? How many MB would it be ? Can you filter the history files automatically ? We could put everything, also fluclinic etc. in one big file and then search for keywords !

lugon – at 07:53

Nay, I can’t access the pmwiki files. Pogge can but I’m not asking O:-)

As for size, I’ve tried to guess: (2000+ forum threads * 10 kb each) + (1000+ wiki pages * 5 kb each) = a lot.

The raw flatfiles would have to be de-history-ated and then bundled-compressed.

lugon – at 08:08

Below these [lines where the current text is] you will see information used to keep track of the page’s revision history.

But I don’t know what the revision history would look like. Maybe … hang on, yes: we just need to select the loooong line starting with “text=“, and change %0a (I hope writing this string betweeen brackets and equal signs doesn’t break anything!) into real carriage-returns.

That way, files would be much smaller.

A python script should be able to do that in no time, and we’d end up with a “page.txt” for every “page”. Then it’s gzip and upload to ftp.

Now, the script would be something like “for all files here, read each file, read the lines of the file until find the text line, change the 0a text to carriage-returns, write that out”. It shouldn’t take longer than a week for me! ;)

gs – at 09:03

someone else please do it ! I already have the forum…We should share the tasks

lugon – at 09:32

I can write the python script. I can send it to Pogge. Someone can hand Pogge a respirator. Yes, I think together we can make it. :)

Some help here. This should provide a good template from which to build the suggested script. Better develop it with non-important data, and in any case use it after a backup, of course.

I may be able to give it some time later, but if someone else gets there first I’ll be very happy.

Sahara – at 09:44

I was aghast the first time I saw this forum. Now other forums look needlessly complicated to me. Other forums seems to “wall off” topics behind layers of categories and sub-categories. If I’m only mildly interested, I won’t take the time to jump through the (usually quite slow) hoops. This forum, however, rewards my mild curiosity by delivering the topic instantly, and I have learned things outside my normal circle of interests. To me, this is the value of the “low tech” approach. To be sure, I have lost topics as they recede down the list into the mists of time, but a better search function would help with this. The forum topics index has already been valuable.

One thing I would love to have is Private Messaging. In some other BB programs, if you are registered then others can send you a private message via the forum without having to know your e-mail address. I find that to be a very valuable feature of another forum I frequent.

About 2 days ago on this thread, Lugon made a list of the uses people were finding for the forum, and how the forum allowed them to fulfill their needs. The only one that seemed incomplete was “Activist.” That type of person was not able to use the forum to organize activities in the outside world, because of the difficulty of private communication. I would like to contact a few other people that I know are in my area, but I’m certainly not going to advertise the meeting on the forum, nor am I going to put my e-mail address in my profile. I am over-spammed as it is.

As for spell-check: I hope I’m spelling “messaging” correctly or you might thing I am looking for a private “massage” via the forum! Now THAT would be a very valuable feature, although I think this isn’t that kind of site!

lugon – at 09:47

Hey, or maybe we just need to use awk. For all files here, if first characters of the line are “text=“ then print that line over.

 awk text= filename1
 awk text= filename2

Where filename1, 2 etc would be the result of applying ls to the directory where the flatfiles sit.

Or something.

lugon – at 16:51

This seems to work on a single file:

 awk ^text= Main.HomePage > Main.HomePage.txt

So now it’s a matter of writing it as a bash script to allow for many files.

As usual, don’t try this at home.

lugon – at 16:52

Hmm, sorry, the above should read awk /^text=/ Main.HomePage > Main.HomePage.txt.

anonymous – at 17:50

thank you sahara. And thanks gs and lugon for the tech tour.

DemFromCTat 17:53

the above was me…

28 April 2006

lugon – at 19:44

The above might help in creating “read-only mirror copies” of the forum, for harvesters and call-centers and CD distributions. In time.

28 May 2006

BroncoBillat 18:57

This thread is getting really long, with lots of great suggestions. But, alas, the server doesn’t like threads this long, so we’re closing this one and opening a new one here.

BroncoBillat 19:01
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