Sandi suggested it was time and I think that’s true - the old thread was getting very long.
ANyway, talking of flyways, I found this image - I have no idea how accurate it is but if so, very scary! http://tinyurl.com/meyt6
aaaaaaaaarrgh!!!!
Aziraphale:
Hooray! Great map and, unlike so many, it covers only the areas of primary interest to us down here!
I also share Sandi’s response; even though I have seen worse this is QUITE bad enough!
Careless of me, I meant to soften the blow a bit! Not all migratory birds carry BF virus and in their feeding and nesting habits, most tend to not interact with our poultry.
Like I suggested at end of number two, it’s complicated.
My apologies Nikolai - I didn’t think to link to thread no 2.
I’m interested as to why interaction/infection of poultry is so important - I assume it’s because humans are more likely to have contact with domestic poultry? What about all the picnickers who feed the tame waterbirds in parks and riverfronts around Australia (and presumably NZ)?
I have pet ducks which I breed, and would often get the local wild ducks appearing in their run at breakfast time for the free feed. I have fully enclosed their run now because of foxes, but hey, I’m doubly glad I did that now!
i have a budgie. I keep telling him not to worry that i’m sure we’ll be able to find teeny little kleenex :)
Sandi, aziraphale:
Thanks, both. We need a smile and we need to shift to a new and roomier space!
Your excellent question, as best I understand, is answered: The influenza viruses have for millenia been endemic in a range of wildfowl. When a given viral strain succeedes in transferring to humans, we have a closely related viral flu.
That transfer is not easy, and in the past has probably been effected by hunters handling waterfowl they have just killed. Today, infection of domestic poultry is the central means by which the virus may then transfer to human hosts. It is the most common intermediary—cats, dogs, etc trivial.
In societies where chickens are commonly kept domestically and tropical regions where houses are open, and children play with the birds, feed them, gather the eggs…well, you see!
Your second query? I suggest not a major worry. Tell me, have you ever watched children, or grownups, try to PET one of those so-called ‘tame’ birds? We won’t get close!
Authoratative and comprehensive answers to your first query can be ‘Searched’ and read on other threads.
Okay?
Thanks Nikolai - I’ll go to a picnic on the river next weekend but I won’t be swimming (don’t think that’s advisable at the best of times, and not because of the waterbirds, it’s the other pollutants!)
Hi folks. These people have been really helpful when i bought a vacuum pump. They seem to stock some of the things i thought were only available outside australia: http://www.grainmills.com.au/
Sorry about the tinyurl thing…i just cant figure it out!!
Nikolai: thought of you re the above site as they have bean sprouters!! I’m asking hubby for one for my birthday. Reckon it would be a great to have for us apartmet dwellers with no hope of growing much fresh food
Sandi:
Haven’t thought past fresh-and-fridge on hand when it starts!
I need info, background in exactly that area. Thanks! Don’t want to hurry ageing, but have to hope your birthday is soon!
heheh it sure is! only a coupla weeks away. I think they’re a great idea. was my only real worry: getting something fresh after the fresh stuff i have runs out. Dont want to risk contagion by going to the greengrocer just because i’m crying out for something green.
Thanks for the URL Sandi - I’ve been looking for one of those sprouters for ages! Anyone got any ideas on where to source seeds for the sprouts though? I don’t want to use the ones that you’d plant normally (little packets) as they are usually treated with stuff.
i’m going to Bunnings garden store tomorrow night to look .. am on irc if u want to chat now? (actually in 5 minutes as i’m going for a smoke ;)
Thriftylink hardware chain p2 mask three for 12.00 (sorry not sure about the sprouts) i think this is a good price but noticed i got the last one in this shop today!?
ugh - have to find an IRC client. Will have a look and post back here if I can do IRC Sandi.
Sandi - what server and channel are you on?
irc.freenode.net The channel is h5n1 and i’m going to pop in between 9–9.30 sydney time tonight if you’re about :)
Thanks Sandi - will try but I’m on WA time so it’ll be more like 9:30 (your time) if I make it!
I keep throwing panflu into the conversation at intervals at work (NSW public service), just when it’s apposite, not like an obsessive. People think I am certifiably insane. But late last week I did get a call from a public service exec friend of mine, late on Friday, who whispered, “I’ve been called to a secret meeting about that bird flu you’re always on about!” Oh, really? So maybe it’s filtering through.
I also had my will updated with an extra person nominated as a guardian for my 3 year old in case the other two nominees should die (which on current figures seems all too likely). I figure we couldn’t be so unlucky as to lose my husband and I, my sister, and two cousins but I suppose we could. Then my daughter will be in state care if she survives.
I really hate the way this thing is starting to run my life! I envy the denizens of 1918 in a sense because although it was hell to live through it no doubt, they didn’t have the planning period. And it hurts to know that we appear to have nothing better to fight this with than the good old Carbolic Smoke Ball of contract law fame - in 1892 there was a pandemic flu and this was the original counterfeit tamiflu. And 110 years on - are we any better off?
Aziraphale- I went to chinese wholesale /retail grocery store and bought lots of bulk food. See if you can find one in your town. Big bags of rice- big pottles of spice paste. Dried mushrooms. I got lots of mung beans for sprouting. Pour boiling water over them when you first start them. The heat get them all going at the same time- doesn’t kill them.
Australians to mask up to fight flu. Govt encourages use of surgical masks
The below story was the number three item on Sydneys number one news station; although they made no mention of avian influenza, other stations did in their report of the story.
Call to use face masks to fight flu
Tuesday Mar 14 19:02 AEDT
People suffering from flu this winter are being urged to wear surgical face masks on public transport and in other crowded areas to help prevent the spread of infectious disease.
The NSW Department of Health has begun a public awareness campaign in the lead up to winter to help stem the spread of influenza and prevent a pandemic.
The department’s suggestions include getting immunised, washing your hands with soap and water regularly, and wearing a mask if you are already suffering from the flu.
“Wearing a face mask is something we haven’t talked about in the past although it has been talked about in reference to how we might combat the flu,” said the department’s communicable disease director, Jeremy McAnulty.
Dr McAnulty admitted while it helped reduce the risk of transmitting influenza, wearing a face mask was something of a taboo in Australia.
“It’s something that people haven’t really taken to to-date, although in some countries like Japan and parts of Asia it’s much more culturally acceptable,” he said.
“It was used in Australia in 1919 when they had the pandemic after World War I and there is some evidence that after the outbreak of SARS in Hong Kong that they worked in reducing the disease.”
Dr McAnulty said people should wear a surgical mask if they have a severe infection and are going to their doctor for treatment.
This would help prevent clinical staff and others in the waiting room contracting the same illness, he said.
However, the best strategy was immunisation, Dr McAnulty said.
“Anyone who wants to avoid getting sick should get an influenza vaccination now,” he said.
Immunisation should be considered by those at high risk of severe diseases, including people over 65, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people over 50, and people with underlying medical conditions
Any thoughts about the amount of cash we need if this pandemic hits? how it will affect banking etc? The Syd Morn Herald ran a small media item today saying the IMF wanred that a severe bird flu pandemic would cause cause ….. the IMF also advised the Reserbe Bank of Aust to build up supplies of currency notes to “satisfy the inevitable rush for cash in the event of a flu pandemic” cant supply link but it was on page 7 of the paper today. Your thoughts on managing your cashflow? thanks
Ms J:
No, not a whole lot. 1892 Smoke Ball? My word, yes, we are better off! Now we have ‘smoke and MIRRORS’ to obscure the hard reality and purchase.
Not to say but MAYBE Relenza and Tamiflu will save us from death. From death, mind. Not from the agony of the flu. But isn’t that a great lot, too!
Keep your confidence. All will be well for those who prep and ISOLATE maximally. Cheers!
AussieOne:
Mind, no confusion now. The SURGICAL mask ONLY reduces the expulsion into the air of particles of infection bearing sputum. It is EXCLUSIVELY to protect others, not, NOT the wearer.
I’m sure you realise that.
Immunisation in this quote is ONLY relevant to SEASONAL FLU not to the lethal Pandemic flu. Vaccination is not yet available for H5N1, sad to say.
Yes, Nikolai, I am aware of that and I think the article says that as well.
PS surgical masks are and will remain one of the most effective methods for reducing the spread of all air bourne diseases, they are often forgotten when people talk about BF -with the focus more on N95s etc. which are more about how do I protect myself rather than how do we stop this from infecting others.
Just on the masks subject I have already bought some P2 masks which I believe are ok but any advice on masks for 7yr olds? which is a good easily accessible and wearable one? thanks
Another topic - in my preparations i have stocked mainly canned food assuming no water or power what do you think is a realistic scenario should pasta and rice be on my list too???
NotParanoidBut, you have a couple of choices, preformed/molded and flat fold and both have elastic head bands. I tried both variations on my children and they are of various ages. The flat style fit best on my 9 year old as it fully envoloped the face from below jaw to the ridge of the nose, molded ones tend to favour an adults face.
Thanks AussieOne will seek out the flat style great advice - thanks again!
clark - thankyou for the tip on finding mung beans at asian grocery stores. We have heaps of those, I’ll look this week!
sandi - sorry I didn’t make it home in time to chat to you on IRC. Let me know if you’re going to be on at a later time at some point.
NotParanoidBut - are you stocking water? If so then aim to have enough to be able to cook pasta/rice/beans also, they are cheap and filling and I think you’ll go crazy just eating canned foods! Plus they’re a way of turning one tin of meat/soup into a (sparse) meal for 2–4 people. For cooking them, do you have a barbeque or gas stove? Camping stove (if reticulated gas is out)?
NotParanoidBut, no problem.
As no one has replied re pasta and rice yet I thought I would throw in my two bobs worth.
Both are the main ingrediants of my plans, particularly pasta.
My intention is to mix pasta/rice through the canned meat and veg with a dressing as the primary meal of the day. The choices in canned vegitables will help provide variety, while offering the correct nutrition, protein and staple mix.
AussieOne - we will have pretty similar menus :-) Also porridge for breakfasts and cupasoup for lunch if we’re really lavish.
aziraphale, are you telling me that I am now going to have to get up even earlier agian to beat you to that last can of Spam!
You can keep the Spam! Just keep your mits off the braised steak and onions :-)
or my plumrose hotdogs!
Several things to comment on - I love this thread.
The pasta thing - get yourself a mechanical pasta rolling machine and you can make fresh pasta really easily - it always tastes better and it will be something fresh when everything else is coming out of a can or packet! If you need a recipe for fresh pasta, let me know. (It is also a great fun family thing to roll and cut the pasta.)
As to the IMF report and Bank preparedness. This has had high profile here in NZ and currency stocks are on their way to our shores. Banking is seen as critical infrastructure to allow payment of benefits and salaries and to permit online and telephone banking - you can still pay your bills from home - even if the postal service isn’t working.
I understand there is some work going on in the Aussie banking sector but cannot give definitive answers in that area. I do know their NZ arms are being asked to assist given the efforts already under way here.
Would you hold cash at home - a tricky one really. Possibly more likely to be needed when “its all over” and before the banking system settles into action again, but during the event - where are you going to be shopping anyway?
AND, taking picnics and stuff near wild and migratory birds.
Your chances of actually touching the birds are slim - they are fairly flighty (love puns almost as much as tiny URLs!) But, remember that the birds can excrete the virus for several days if they are infected. So, watch where you walk, usual care with hand cleaning - use some of that gel stuff before eating and playing etc, and clean your footwear when you get home - paranoid or cautious - you choose!
Re: Choice of mask types, Surgical or P-2:
I applaud protection of others, but why should anyone prance about the streets wearing a Surgical mask? They obviously do NOT have the panflu, so cannot give it to others in the first place. If they ARE infected, they’ll be at home, on their sickbed, spreading blood and lung mucus amidst their family carers.
Unprotected families, by the way. The family bought the Surgical masks, remember. (With loving care for OTHERS.)
I am probably confused, but I don’t own a single Surgical mask—but I do live alone. Advice for me, anyone?
NPB: I tried preformed and fold flat masks on the kids. The 3M 9322 fold flat ones fitted well on the older ones and -ok- on the littlest one. I ended up getting some P3 Drager infant masks from the UK for the littlest one. The 3M ones were ten in a box for AU$70 and the UK ones a bit dearer. Also I would definitely buy rice and pasta to pad out canned foods (especially braised steak and onions). Cheers.
Nikolai
“I applaud protection of others, but why should anyone prance about the streets wearing a Surgical mask? They obviously do NOT have the panflu, so cannot give it to others in the first place.”
The ‘difficulty’ is that people will (may?) be infectious BEFORE they show any symptoms of the flu - as we are now with any flu. We remain out and about in our communities because we are unaware that we are infectious. By wearing a mask, we are acknowledging that state and protecting others. Japanese and other asian countries have already adopted this practise.
For us in the ‘down-under” world, changing our habits and adopting this approach will probably take some time - unless we can get some of our famous (or infamous) to lead the way - make it publicly acceptable to be masked. Equally, our habit of forming queues for food, transport, checkouts etc will mean a lot of education to get social distancing in place. These are most likely the areas where a mask will be most needed.
Nikolai—Sydney, Surgical masks are very, very useful.
1. They have an equal and, in the better quality masks, a higher filtration rate that N95s. 2. They are alot less expensive than N95s. 3. There are only 2 differences between a N95 and a surgical mask. Possible gaps on the sides of the face and N95s are made to sit away from the mouth. 4. In low risk environments they will save you from using the more expensive N95s, saving them for when you may really need them or when you cannot guarantee replenishment.
“why should anyone prance about the streets wearing a Surgical mask?” Why not! Would you not wear a N95, whats the difference or are you really planning on any pandemic hitting very, very, very quickly?
Remember that a pandemic will be an event that will take time to let loose, so unless you are planning to quarantine, say tomorrow, then forget about that last bit of preps, banking, paying bills, visiting family and friends etc. Back in the 1917/18 pandemic the Australian Government made it mandatory to wear masks when you left your home and this was credited with saving many lives as well as assisting the economy to continue as people felt protected.
this post is a shameless attempt to put the thread back up the top! Had a horrible day at work wondering about all the lifts in my building and watching people come in and out of the bathrooms without washing!!!! Ewwww!!
Sandi, one thing about BF is that it makes me think more about my hygiene practices.
Have tought me youngest to sing “happy birthday” twice as he washes his hands - it works!
Thanks Aussie Dad for your advice re masks and cans did anyone see the post about the NZ Govt starting their information campaign on tv tonight regarding asian flu? any kiwis like to comment?
and yes Sandi we down under do like to be on top!
NotParanoidBut, your comment “and yes Sandi we down under do like to be on top!” - what was that referring to or was it referring to the comment
Sandi – at 16:45 or my plumrose hotdogs!
Old thread - Closed to increase Forum speed.