I made contact with a neighbor who is a guard at a local prison (600 inmates). I asked him if the prison was making any preparations for the “bird flu” - and only received a blank stare in return (he had no idea why the prison would be concerned about a flu effecting birds). After I gave him a quick overview of how a human pandemic may start, and how having hundreds of people living/working in such close proximity to each other will likely be a breeding ground for the virus - I got his attetion.
I have made copies of some articles for him, which he is going to take to the Safety Officer at the prison on Monday - but he is asking me for suggestions on what preparations in particular he should be asking the prison to make…. any suggestions (other than buy thousands of N95 masks, gloves, etc…)? Note: I think the “priority list” put out by our state government for who will get the limited doses of Tamiflu - have the prison guards pretty far down the list.
My big fear is that the guards will not show up for work, plus all the support staff needed to cook for the inmates. Any practical suggestions on how a prison should be prepping (right now) would be appreciated.
Remember Stephen King’s “The Stand”? Kind of makes you want to stay out of trouble, doesn’t it?
My understanding is that many prisons … not all, but many … are often like little self-contained kingdoms. The low-risk prisoners do much of the “staff” work themselves … they are cooks, gardeners, cleaning crew, laudry, etc.
Now they do have to get their supplies somehow, but some of them even have their own gardens during certain times of the year.
The problem will not be having the “staff” to get things done, it will be leaders who have the authority and power to make them get things done.
Security will be an issue, but Lord help them if they go on individual cell lock down which is what is likely to happen in the event of a true emergency. Shades of “The Stand” indeed. I’d be interested in finding out what happens in prisons during a hurricane, earthquake, etc.
Well, in N.O., LA they sent them to the bus station. Seems logical, right? Take 600 hundred bad guys to a bus station with 2–4 sniffling, coughing guards. OK, Mom always said that sarcasm was a bad thing, yeah, whatever. Honestly though, if 50 percent of the guards are out sick, I think they would be alright. Less yard time, stricter security, etc. Anyway, I read somewhere that some of the lowest risk, nearly complete term prisoners would be released. Of course, not having time to prep they will be looking for supplies upon release. See: How secure are your preps discussion page. Basically City Slicker, I have no idea what they would do and I can’t imagine what they could/would do. Very scary though.
Dem was at his state’s Flu Summit. The one department of the state gov that didn’t show up was the bureau of prisons.
Worldwide, what a picture!
The Tiajuana Brass echoes very plaintively now: ‘In the Tiajuana jailhouse / where they throw away the key…’
In the extremest case, flu in the cell blocks, prisoners are starving, the last of the guards will flee. Hopefully the keys will be tossed to a trustee prisoner….
Those ‘rats’ are somebody’s hubby, daddy, son…
Indeed so Nikolai. Even tho i would not want some of these people roaming about, i like even less the idea of leaving them to die like a rat in a cage. Our humanity must not be the first casualty of pandemic.
Letting them loose, when they have nowhere to go and no supplies would be a very bad idea…better preparations now would make more sense.
Shame on the state for not telling everyone about “Pandemic Influenza”. They certainly could, if they wanted to. Not show up at the summits -shame on anyone “allowed” to go that didn’t show. (They should have been open to the public, those summits.)
This hits a little closer to home than I would like. I have a cousin that spent some time in jail due to DUIs. For those outside of the US it means it was driving while under the influence of either alcohol, drugs, medications, etc.
In my cousin’s case it was drugs. And yes, he did deserve to spend time in jail … for stupidity if nothing else … but the idea of my cousin dieing in jail under the circumstances that we’ve all been imagining just isn’t a picture that I want others to have to face the reality of.
My cuz is out of jail, clean (thanks in part to a prison program), and unfortunately paralyzed from the belly button down because of a subsequent car accident caused by delayed reaction time from damage due to years of drug use. He will now permanently live in a kind of prison of his own making.
But he did get rehabilitated in large part because of his prison time. Surely there are other men and women in this condition in our justice system. I hope that there are people around that can weed out the “good” from the “bad” if it does come down to a choice of release them or let them die. Not all of them deserve a “life sentence on death row” in the event of a pandemic event.
Still, prisons need a better plan than “Hope it doesn’t happen” and then either turn inmates loose (for lack of staff, lack of supply deliveries, lack of electricity?) during a deadly pandemic, or, lockdown the whole facility and come clean up when it is all over (NZ still planning to do that? More honest than saying It Can’t Happen and then saying, Oops; we have no good plan for 1918-or-worse!)
Could prisons make a list of who would be safe to release, and see if they have families willing to take them in, and tell those families to stock, prep and rotate, in case pademic occurs, and, how will inmates be released/transported to them? Would officials wait too long- don’t want people spreading pandemic.
Prisons certainly need plans for how to cope, in a pandemic year, with those who shouldn’t be released. The law-abiding citizens have rights, too.
crfullmoon – at 12:21
Prisons do keep detailed lists of prisoners. Unfortunately some of these men and women either have no family or no family who could/would take them in. Many of them also suffer from some type of mental illness where the only time they get medication that helps them maintain normalcy is while in jail. The screening process is very detailed when even learning challenges are discovered years after they’ve left school … and told they weren’t stupid, they just needed to learn a different way.
I’m not excusing anything that these men and women have done. I believe in personal responsibility. So my reply isn’t meant to soft-soap that aspect, I hope it isn’t taken as such.
But a plan does need to be developed.
Are there any statistics/stories from the 1918 Spanish flu on what occured in places like prisons, asylums, sanitoriums, etc.? It might give a window into what our current systems can expect as well as clues as to how to develop a constructive plan in the event of a pandemic.
I do know in any closed/close environment, once a bad virus gets in, it will have much-higher than “normal” rates of who catches it; say, closer to 100%. (Don’t boarding schools in the UK get 75%+ attack rates, when seasonal influenza or some other virus gets in?) Military barracks/troopships in 1918 did very poorly, too.
I’d say, plans for restricting access to the grounds, no visitors, or otherwise trying to keep the virus out (maybe even having staff live in month shifts at the prison, rather than go home back and forth every day, would limit bringing infection in, or would it?
Medications, ect, are subject to what Dr.Osterholm has been warning us; we don’t make them all here, and supply chains will fail as people get ill, or trade/travel is disrupted, ect. Stockpiling necessary meds and storing them and rotating them properly should be on the list, whether they think they can afford it or not; can they afford not to? (Better mental health care is needed, in and out of prison populations.)
What is most important? -priorities would have to be different than in daily life, under a State of Emergency. I’d rather first responders, HCWs, utility (and burial) personnel and their families had their Rx meds first…if supply chains fail and rationing is put in place.
Prison and jail overcrowding is also an issue, and this gives yet another reason to address it. Very hard to do anything right when places are over capacity to start with.
From Illinois Dept of Corrections—Example
Big Muddy River Correctional Center
Opened: March 1993 Capacity: 1,152 Level 3: High Medium-Security Adult Male Average Daily Population: 1,860
Total Average Daily Population: 1,860 Average Age: 34 Average Annual Cost Per Inmate: $16,293.00
http://www.idoc.state.il.us/subsections/facilities/information.asp?instchoice=law
The av. age seems to 34 in almost all the prison systems in Ill.
Above should have read IL. (not ill)
We have a “Are Hospitals Prepping” thread. What are prison hospitals doing.
Will the govt. press inmates into service carting off dead bodies or stocking supplies? Or just roadside trash pickup?
If you think prisons are out of the loop read this from the Ohio Dept of Rehab & Corrections (state prison system)web site.
The Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction initiated a pilot project using videoconferencing technology, also known as telemedicine, in March 1995, connecting the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility in Lucasville, the Corrections Medical Center in Columbus, and The Ohio State University Medical Center. The project was undertaken to evaluate the use of two-way video technology for correctional healthcare. Initial project objectives included improved continuity of care, decreased transportation costs and improved communication.
The system uses video equipment that compresses the video image and then transmits the audio and video over T1 lines, best described as a high-speed communications circuit. The equipment is also connected to peripheral medical devices, such as stethoscopes, that enhance the ability of staff to provide medical evaluation and treatment. The system can be used to provide consultation between any two endpoints on the network.
Since its inception, the Telemedicine program has conducted approximately 19,000 consultations. Approximately 5000 such consults in 12 different medical specialties are now completed each year. Medical care is initiated at the local prison by the nurses and physicians onsite. Telemedicine is then used to present the inmate and his or her medical condition to the specialty physicians at The Ohio State University Medical Center for appropriate care. In addition to the medical services provided by the OSUMC, ODRC staff conduct psychiatric and dietary consultations from a Central Office video system located in the Office of Correctional Health Care. Thirty-two prisons participate in the Telemedicine program.
The Telemedicine network is part of a larger ODRC videoconferencing network that also includes the Division of Parole and Community Services’ eight regional offices and 3 district offices. The prison school system known as the Ohio Central School System has 6 distance learning centers included on the network as well. Thus, the videoconferencing network is used to not only to provide improved access to specialty care, but also continuing education to health care, administrative, security, and other support staff, as well as legal hearings, parole board hearings, administrative meetings, and patient transfer meetings.
Somebody knows what they are doing!
From another thread, JoeW writes
They do, but the ones presented don’t answer the question by any means. I have had prison administrative personnel write me from California and elsewhere asking to get in touch with others from anywhere because there ae few or no plans. Telemedicne is terrific but not the only ‘answer’ to what to do in a pandemic scenartio with a locked-in population and issues of supplies and staffing not settled. Local prisons will parter wth local hospitals, yet little of that work has actually been done. Many assumptions, little concrete planning.
As JoeW says, a few facts go a long way. And reflex defending the prison system doesn’t answer the question of how well prepared they are becoming across the country.
The issue of over-crowding only complicates their ability to address planning.
Part of the problem is as simple as their ability to store enough food to keep all the prisoners and any housed staff fed for a week. Gyms aren’t the only spaces that have been compromised in order to find room for all of the inmates. What once was storage may now be office space.
With less storage space the fewer days back up the prisons have of any given needed item like food, cleaning supplies, linens, etc.
So simply finding the space to put a pandemic plan into effect will be just as problematic for a prison as it is at the local and individual level.
Prisons have many of the same problems as a single household does … just multiplied exponentially due to population.
Prisons are really small cities if you think about it. With all the same problems of supply line distribution, utilities, etc. … but complicated with the need to monitor 100% of its citizenry 100% of the time. Further complicated by the fact that its citizenry cannot participate in the preparation because of safety reasons.
I suspect in the interest of preventing riots that many prisons will shut down outside feeds on the televisions and will go into lockdown or modified lockdown mode.
I don’t think that there will be mass-release programs go into effect as there is no logical good to come out of releasing possibly 100′s (thousands if you add hypothetical releases together from across state lines) into a public who will already potentially be having panic attacks over the flu itself. These men could actually be put in danger if some people think to “take justice into their own hands” to “keep their family safe.” A man/woman may not be able to protect their family from an invisible virus, so they will make the next most likely and easiest “problem” to fix their focus … released inmates.
Perhaps the prisons need to plan along the idea of being small cities. Food distribution, power, water, keeping the peace, etc. are all factors that both prisons and cities have in common.
“And reflex defending the prison system doesn’t answer the question of how well prepared they are becoming across the country.” Well, I don’t think I was doing that. I suspect that they are better prepared than most would think but that doesn’t mean they are all that well prepared or that they have completed their preparations. Like Dem said, people are looking into their problems and the prison is indeed a small city with the attendent problems. I do suspect that their problems are fewer than the average comparable town or city.
More facts from Ohio penal industries: The also supply cleaning products.
“Ohio Penal Industries (“OPI”) is a division of the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction. OPI is dedicated to preparing prisoners for life after incarceration by providing industrial training and instilling positive work habits. We work with institution staff to ensure that inmates learn the importance of employee accountability, pride in job performance, and the ability to work with peers and work productively under strict supervision. The division employed 2682 prisoners in 18 prisons during FY02. Total sales for OPI in FY02 were approximately $30 million. This is a decrease from previous years, in part, due to the closing of Orient Correctional Institution and the downturn of state revenues during FY02, which limits purchases from other state agencies.
Inmates provide a variety of office and business services, as well as manufacture and assemble a variety of quality, cost-competitive items. They also receive rehabilitative training and personal development skills at little or no cost to the taxpayer. With the wages inmates receive, they are able to pay for court costs, victim compensation, child support, medical co-pays, and purchase needed items through their institution’s commissary.
By having these work programs within the institutions, recidivism has been approximately 18% lower for inmates participating in OPI shops than other training programs. Studies have shown that these programs have a positive affect on the participants.
Another new feature for OPI is their furniture and institutional catalogs. The 2002 OPI Furniture and Institutional catalogs are available in PDF format at www.opi.state.oh.us, the OPI website. Future catalogs will eventually be available on CD.
The future of OPI is actively being pursued by seeking different and new business opportunities, and implementing several initiatives to better position themselves in the job market.”
ODRC grows all (or nearly all) of their own food.
With regard to how well prepared they are for a pandemic, I guess that with their video conferencing system for continuing education (among other functions) they are as well prepared as The Ohio State University Medical Center allows. I would say that is better than most small towns or comparable cities with 50,000+ populations.
I doubt that ODRC has their own epidemiologist but I’ll bet that they have access to whoever the Governor uses though their cabinet level position. Any reasonable prison system has contingency plans (not shared with the public) for any of several emergencies that include several worst case scenarios. Staff are routinely rotated through different emergency response teams to insure that staff can handle all types of situations from hostage negotiations through riots.
The State Police and the National Guard may have other duties during a pandemic and I would bet that most prisons have already considered this and the “lock down” contingencies that will allow a reduced correctional officer group to control the prison. In most prison systems anyone who works in the prison becomes a “guard” when required. This policy, by itself, doubles the guard force when needed.
From what I know of prison operations I would conclude that they will be less of a problem than several other aspects of our culture. It is quite possible that they will in some ways be a resource for some potential problems.
Don’t get me wrong hear, I am not a defender of prisons, in fact I would like to and expect that we will do away with prison systems completely (but that is another topic). What I am trying to communicate for those who are less informed is that prisons are better prepared than most other organizations. Containment is their specialty. That does not mean that they are “well” prepared. Relatively speaking they have a better handle on these types of situations. Nothing more, nothing less.
Relatively speaking they have a better handle on these types of situations. Nothing more, nothing less.
I think that’s right, but if the real time info I’m getting is correct, it’s made them complacent about pandemic prep (“we can handle x” doesn’t translate into “…and we can handle a pandemic, too”. Our local Fed spa has never had a good track record of working especially well with the community; the state spa does better. The story goes that at the last Fed fire, they locked the gates and the fire department had to break it down with a truck before entering the premises… it was a life threatening situation that took a few lives.
So it goes.
Old thread - Closed to increase Forum speed.