You got questions? They got answers…
Continued from here
Bronco Bill at 01:36 \\ poggeI dont remember if I asked you this before now, but is there a way to make the Left Side Bar float? So when we scroll down, it in itself stays at the top? Im thinking XTML programming here, of which, on a scale of 1 thru 10, I have experience in the negative teens!!
Science Teacher at 10:08 \\ I found this article on network disaster recovery planning needed for Avian flu threat. It might be relevent to the discussion here (August 9th) on network falure due to overload.
Do we have any history on “A Duck Orange Mercurey for this Post”? He posted something today on the Rumors page, and I don’t know if it is legitimate or not?
BB, I was wondering if and when you close and continue a thread, if it would be possible to post the “Original” question or statement. I realize that the threads tend to grow and change, but at least it would give one an idea of why it originated. Just MHO. Thanks
Commonground at 12:40, I suspect Duck Orange Mercurey is a regular poster who wishes to have anonymity for that particular post. Don’t forget that it is the “Rumours” page. However, I suspect that posting on the “Rumours” page under a faux handle might make individuals more comfortable in posting certain info. Unfortunately, there is no way to verify the information but hey, its a rumour, right?
A little birdie - yes, I was assuming that was the case (what you said), but it’s so hard to know if it isn’t someone just trying to get a rile out of the people here.
I could guess who it is, and if I’m right. I’m taking it serious. I remember everything I read or hear.Certian words/phrases stand out to me as a pattern. Great for me but not for my kids or the man in my life. ; )
Snowhound1 at 12:45 --- I was thinking of the same thing, but wavering because some of the opening posts tended to be rather long. Let’s try it and see how it goes…Thanks
Commonground at 12:40 --- I have a good idea who ADOM is…regular poster. But that’s why it’s called a Rumors page
Let’s not expose anybody here (except anonymouses). The name was changed for a good reason, I’m sure…
Commonground, I have to assume that some people will post false information just to get a rise out of people. However, some of the rumors may have a basis in fact. The problem is discerning between the two. I would take all rumors with a grain of salt yet still use them to round out some of the information that we do have.
not gonna say a thing, I’m an eastsider. Eastsiders were bred to keep quiet.
Thank you everyone. You all answered my questions/concerns.
Commonground
Or ADOM handle was chosen to sound like some body we know and trust. If someone wishes to hide a handle, a totally unrecognizable one would have been used. It’s more likely misinformation, and some thing we are dying to know but you will never find out.
As we get closer to a pandemic, we should expect to see more rumors. It is however even more important to be level headed. TPTB may also attempt to deflect anger. WHO may not be the only fall guy.
FG can post what she wants from home, and also much from work, but not all, hence ADOM. The fact that I have a weird sense of humour is a way to cope with anxiety. In ADOM’s message, I have posted only what I considered serious, with my comments. Please note however that I have not mentioned that I shall madly increase my preps - for the moment - just keeping steady at it. And I am not frightened to go abroad next week for a holiday (yet. I haven’t planned my Xmas one). Thank you for your attention.
Astonished that posters didn’t realize it immediately.
Hello moderators, et al:
I’m part of a collaborative project the USDA is funding called “Prevention and Control of Avian Influenza” (www.aicap.umd.edu). I would like to have this up on the wiki site somewhere, as a general fyi for those interested in the animal vaccine side of AI. Where do you think it should be listed? Thanks!
The first thing that comes to mind is the Resources page.
Melanie: on the news thread… you called “the day the earth stood still” a B film.
I want you to know it is one of my favorite (after the Man in the white suit) and happens to be listed as #50 of the the top movies of all times. Not exactly B.
“Gort! Klaatu Barada Nikto” :)
DennisC.
A great B film. Great.
On Request from China II, Anon yyz said:
I think we beat it to death.
The question remaining: does any one want to respond to the request for help?
The request was for you to register and post training material - there is at least a copyright issue to look at.
If not, can we call it a day?
And then the thread was closed. Bummer.
If anon yyz wants to call it a day, why doesn’t he simply stop reading the thread? Others obviously were interested. Such efforts to control flow of discussion are a big turn-off.
anonymous at 12:59
anon-yyz did not close the thread. I did.
We close threads from time to time when the discussion is be moving too far from the intention of the original post, or the purpose of this forum, or most of the important points have been covered.
Closed threads can be re-opened if there are good reasons to do so, such as new information related to the original issue, etc. Please let us know by posting here or emailing one of the mods. Thanks!
anonymous at 12:59
The thread was to discuss a Request from China. That subject matter was discussed at length. I did not see any more posts about responding or not responding to the Request for many hours. I asked if anyone wanted to respond to their request. And if no one wanted to, there would not have been a need to continue and clutter the forum. I was waiting for some answers, but the thread was closed by the mods. Monotreme already alluded he’s not going to register with FIC. Would you like to register with them?
I am speaking for myself, not the mods.
If you have something specific, you can post it here and if it gets interesting, I am sure a lot of people will ask to start a Request from China III thread.
If you want to post anything else other than the subject of Responding to the Request, you can also start a thread under a new heading.
anonymous at 13:12
That was me. Anon responding to anon. Am I answering my own questions :-) Too many anonymouses.
Well, I can’t seem to make my cookies stick.
I’m sure it’s a non-issue. Using google, the Chinese request is associated with Hangzhou Neuro-Hemin Biotech. 2503, No. 316 Jiogong Road, Hangzhou 310012, Zhejiang, P.R. China.
“Established in 2003, the company employs 20 professionals who are instrumental in discovering advanced techniques to detect a potential outbreak of infectious diseases. Collaborating with international professionals, Hangzhou Neuro-Hemin Biotech Co., Ltd is working diligently to promote awareness of health threats and decrease the spread of life-threatening diseases. The company utilizes our expertise to educate the general public on disease control. Currently conducting a research project on local disease responses system, Hangzhou Neuro-Hemin Biotech Co., Ltd plans to expand our research into other facets by assessing the impact of disease on economic growth and working with tourism agencies to inform tourists of appropriate precautionary steps. The funding of this website was jointly supported by Government of Hangzhou and Hangzhou Neuro-Hemin Biotech.”
Why is there not much interest in the ‘goverment accountability” thread?-because the poster did not mention the source?- I sure would like to know about all types of avian flus that are found, not only H5N1. the “mild’ ones don’t seem to be as harmless as they would like us to think.
anonymous at 22:57
For those still interested in finding out more about Request from China, I searched and found a little bit more info. Please note that the neuro-hemin.com web server is in China even though the .com domain is a “U.S.” domain, not a .com.cn “Chinese” domain.
With this additional information, the concern about Hangzhou Silk Road IT Co. remains unchanged.
I cannot see who owns flu.org.cn but the Administrative email is info@neuro-hemin.com
====================================
[whois.cnnic.net.cn]
Domain Name: flu.org.cn ROID: 20031219s10051s00023724-cn Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited Registrant Organization: 杭啞纽罗西敏生物科技有限公司 Registrant Name: 杭啞纽罗西敏生物科技有限公司 Administrative Email: info@neuro-hemin.com Sponsoring Registrar: 厦门精通科技实业有限公司 Name Server:ns1.dns-diy.com Name Server:ns2.dns-diy.com Registration Date: 2003–12–19 13:48 Expiration Date: 2006–12–19 13:48 ===========================================
A search of the domain neuron-hemin.com yielded the following:
======================================
Domain Name: NEURO-HEMIN.COM
Registrar: XIN NET TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION Whois Server: whois.paycenter.com.cn Referral URL: http://www.paycenter.com.cn Name Server: NS.XINNET.CN Name Server: NS.XINNETDNS.COM Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK EPP Status: clientDeleteProhibited EPP Status: clientUpdateProhibited EPP Status: clientTransferProhibited Updated Date: 16-May-2006 Creation Date: 02-Jun-2003 Expiration Date: 02-Jun-2007
===================================
Notice whois server is in China.
www.neuro-hemin.com is at IP Address 218.108.238.102 which is located in Hangzhou, China
I could not find out who owns this specific address but the block of IP Address 218.108.0.0 is owned by: WASU TV & Communication Holding Co.,Ltd., Hangzhou.
=========================================
inetnum: 218.108.0.0 - 218.109.255.255 netname: WASU descr: WASU TV & Communication Holding Co.,Ltd. descr: 6/F, Jian Gong Building, NO.20 Wen San Road, Hangzhou, descr: Zhejiang province, P.R.China 310012 country: CN admin-c: MX46-AP tech-c: MX46-AP mnt-by: MAINT-CNNIC-AP mnt-routes: MAINT-CNNIC-AP status: ALLOCATED PORTABLE changed: ipas@cnnic.net.cn 20060630 source: APNIC
I just posted a thread: Whats your PPF and hit send a bit too fast. I forgot the apostrophe and a question mark. I am ashamed! Is there anyway to fix it? I shouldn’t ever type after 12. Things get so blurry…and that just inside my head! Thanks.
On the fence PPF3 at 00:34 --- I wouldn’t worry about it. I’ve learned from Master pogge…little things like that won’t usually show up in the headers anyway. Your heading asks a question no matter how it’s read…
ANON-YYZ at 23:59
General Manager, Hangzhou Neuro-Hemin Biotech
Yang Li, MPH
Email: yangli@neuro-hemin.com, yangli@flu.org.cn
Tel: 0086 571 88254239, FAX: 0086 571 88254239
about information from china- is there any information about the outbreak in Shanxi Province yesterday that was thought to be encephalitis B but had 17 people with “flu like symptoms”?
ANON yyz at 13:12 : I asked if anyone wanted to respond to their request. And if no one wanted to, there would not have been a need to continue and clutter the forum.
If no one wanted to respond, the thread will sink like all the others. A natural death.
anonymous at 02:02 and other anonymous posts on this subject of Request from China II
That’s your choice. The mods made theirs. And after another 13 hours, no one has responded to your Request. That validates the mods decision. It was another thread that would have contributed to 13 hours of slowing down the servers, while sinking to a natural death.
By hiding behind ‘anonymous’, you are not gaining any trust from this forum.
The latest posts indicates that this wasn’t a group of “Local CDC researchers call for assistance in genetic analysis training” as originally (mis)represented to this forum. This was at best FIC fronting for Hangzhou Neuro-Hemin Biotech - a business with commercial interests. The request smacked of seeking intellectual property outside of regular channels of procurement and licensing. The pattern of behaviour suggests a level of ethics below what would be acceptable here.
I am still concerned about the association of the domain with Hangzhou Silk Road IT Company, which as reported in the Request from China II thread, has a track record of involvement with Citibank phishing scheme.
Hi team
I have posted the news summary again with the tinyURL service. As I noted yesterday, if I copy the PMwiki markups they either fail or revert to the original long link. Am I doing something wrong?
Please note that I am creating the update in an MS Word document then pasting it and fixing up the editing errors that are obvious following the pasting. Could this be causing the issues with copying the shortcuts? (I hope not as this will create so much more work for preparing the summary)
I hope creating the summaries is helping folks - I know I certainly miss Heather - which drove me to doing something!
ANON-YYZ at 03:14
“I am still concerned about the association of the domain with Hangzhou Silk Road IT Company, which as reported in the Request from China II thread, has a track record of involvement with Citibank phishing scheme.”
Mentioning this in passing as a matter of interest is fine. Further discussion of this and similar aspects would be outside the scope of this forum and would probably not be the best use of server time.
Earlier on another thread, the page had side-scrolled. As I understand it, someone had posted an internet address that was too long. Hence,we are asked to shorten all long ones using “tinyurl”. I’m not sure how “tinyurl” works anymore, could someone please explain this better?
I did discover that if you want to read such a side-scrolled thread, go to the top of the thread page and hit “print”, on the right side. You then get the thread appearing in it’s usual width but in a different font (letter size). I’m soooo bad with computers- it-s a miracle that I discovered this!!
Oh, um, duh. I just noticed the box at the bottom of the thread, under the author’s box. How to use the “tinyurl” service. I’m sooooo bad with reading! Sheesh!
Anyway, once a thread has scrolled, you can still read it easily by hitting “print” at the upper right of the thread page.
Alternately, you can also do this [[ put your url here | put description of your url here ]]
So the link to ‘Last 50 Changes’ page will look like this when you type it [[ http://www.fluwikie2.com/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Last50Changes | Last 50 Changes ]]
and when you hit the button ‘post’ it will appear like this Last 50 Changes
Try it, its fun!
:-)
ANON-YYZ at 03:14
I am still concerned about the association of the domain with Hangzhou Silk Road IT Company, which as reported in the Request from China II thread, has a track record of involvement with Citibank phishing scheme.
anon_22 at 06:46
Mentioning this in passing as a matter of interest is fine. Further discussion of this and similar aspects would be outside the scope of this forum and would probably not be the best use of server time.
Acutally, I don’t agree with you on this anon_22. The general consensus seems to be that FIC is run by ethics-challenged individuals affiliated with the Chinese government. They seem to be going to some lengths to disguise this fact. Further, someone, who claims to be afraid of the reach of the Chinese government, wanted DemFromCT to post the letter from FIC on FluWiki. Seems like a classic case of social engineering to me.
Further discussion of FIC’s validity may not be useful, since no-one seems to question that it is a bogus site, but I think that fact should be highlighted somewhere to protect unsuspecting people seeking information. Alerts of phishing scams are routinely put out by affected companies. Shouldn’t attempted scams on Flu Wiki be similarly advertised?
Monotreme at 10:11
I guess the flip side is the risks of potential defamation claims etc. That’s why I posted publicly available information (which can be verified by anyone), and let everyone decides on him/herself.
I will no longer respond to anonymouses on this subject Request from China, and I would ask the mods to address it going forward.
Monotreme,
I’m not sure there is any firm conclusion what exactly this website is or what they are trying to do. One may have suspicions, and rightly so, and those suspicions IMO were quite thoroughly discussed. In any case, it is not the role of this forum to investigate whether certain external sites are legitimate. Hence I still stick by my original warning of ‘buyers beware’.
There had been previous controversies relating to other websites. Flutrackers comes to mind, but it is by no means the only one. Us mods have enough to do keeping track of what we are about without going into the business of figuring out what others are doing.
No offence, but I just trust that individuals who access the internet should be able to take appropriate precautions without us ‘babysitting’ them.
Besides, I think you already did a good job of warning people. Anyone with any sense who read what you wrote should go away fairly well educated on this issue, IMO. :-)
THe problem I have is like that of Annie above. I just cannot get the markup to “transport” to most places. For example they do not seem to move to the fluwiki comment box. They just show up as the words. The same goes with trying to use them in most documents, text emails and so on. With the tiny url’s you can cut and paste them into spreadsheets, send them via text email and so on. This is important to me since I sometimes send the information to some “government types” by email and I try to keep a spread sheet of the major news items.
People keep saying they are easy to use and to write. OK, but I just cannot get them to cut and paste into things like text emails and spread sheets. They seem worthless if you try to email them. They don’t seem useful if all they do is let you use them here.
I have no problem with posting them once but how do you transport it from one comment to a new comment. I cannot get them to work to move from fluwiki to a text field. For example, how do you cut and paste them or move them from a comment above into a text comment box like the one we use here?
anon_22,
I think the issues regarding FIC are qualitatively different than those raised by the Flutrackers vs CurrEvents spat. If someone had posted the FIC site using their own handle, I would not be as concerned. What raises the profile of the issue is that someone who was unwilling to use even their handle to post the FIC site went instead to DemFromCT to get it posted.
No offence, but I just trust that individuals who access the internet should be able to take appropriate precautions without us babysitting them.
I’m not offended. I agree with you regarding the high intelligence and judgement of Fluwikians.
I think you already did a good job of warning people. Anyone with any sense who read what you wrote should go away fairly well educated on this issue, IMO. :-)
Thanks!
OH yes, for a specific example of the problem. Cuting and pasting from top of this thread.
the markup comes out: here with no link.
the tiny comes out: http://tinyurl.com/rpxfx that one works.
so how would I move the “here” link into the fluwiki comment box if I want to use it for something?
AnnieB at 06:43 and DennisC at 11:05 ---
The PMWiki Markup language doesn’t transport very well at all. Part of the problem is when you post a link using the markup language, the only thing you see is your link description. That’s all that your cut n’ paste method sees too.
When I have several links that I know I’m going to cut ‘n paste, what I like to do is open a small word processor window and create all of my URL links there. Then, once I get everything put together in my forum window, I just create the markup language link by copying from the word processor into my new link. Sounds complicated, but it really isn’t….
Cutting and pasting a TinyURL link if fine, since it’s an actual http link.
DennisC at 11:10 --- Right click (if using Winders) on the link you see and choose Open in New Window. Now highlight the address in the new window, right-click and choose copy, and follow the instructions for creating a markup language link
So you have to use the link and then rewrite the markup. You just cannot copy the markup itself- right? Is there a less time consuming way that does not require multiple windows and a rewrite? With the tiny, I just copy and paste. It sure is nice when I copy an entire news thread and try to save it- all the tiny’s are preserved but the markups are often lost. I guess that means that I will have to go through all the markups one by one when I save a thread.
But thanks.
DennisC,
What I do to save an entire thread or page is just go File, save as, but I save it as an web archive file, .mht cos I want it to be a single file for ease of handling. That way, all the links work in exactly the same way as the original, which saves a lot of time.
Ever since I started reading the fluwiki (about 8 molnths now)I have been wondering what “IMHO” stands for but didn’t want to clog up a thread with the question. So I’m asking here…
I guess it’s actually “IMO” not “IMHO” but whatever it is what does that stand for?
anonymous at 12:32
IMHO - In my humble opinion IMO - In my opinion
Anonymous @12:24 and 12:32 - it’s “in my opinion” or “in my humble opinion” as the case may be! :>)
anonymous who hasn’t chosen a name for 8 months --- Try this link for Forum shorthand:
couldn’t find ‘BTTT’ and ‘ty’…anybody know?
anonymous at 14:07 --- There’s a little box under the Comments box. It’s labeled “Author”. Choose a name, type it then click Post.
ooookkkkaayyy! That explains it! BTTT LOL WADJ!
ANON-YYZ at 10:38-
I will no longer respond to anonymouses on this subject Request from China,
Promise?
And another thing. The incessant badgering of various anonymouses who post here is also a big turn-off.
The incessant badgering of various anonymouses who post here is also a big turn-off.
Then choose a handle. Eventually, whether you like it or not, registration will REQUIRE you to choose a name, or go somewhere else.
Bronco Bill 16:15 I fully expect things are going to get tough in the fall and I hope you are not going anywhere…I for one really appreciate your unique sense of humour.
Now, my skills on the computer are very limited and I may never use it but could you tell me how you did the things with type in your 21:04 post. I don’t see anywhere that allows you to play with type face or high light words etc.
Thanks again!! /;o)
Tom DVM --- To BOLDFACE the type, type in 3 apostrophes, your word or phrase, then 3 more apostrophes. No spaces.
To italicize the type, type in 2 apostrophes, your word or phrase, then 2 more aprostophes. No spaces.
In order to do both BOLD and italicize, type 5 apostrophes, word or phrase, then 5 more apostrophes.
I appreciate the compliment…thank you. Hoefully, if I sell my house in the very near future, I’ll be driving x-country from California to Virginia. Should take about 4–5 days. Then a few days to get settled in and get the PC back up and running. So yeah, I’ll be offline for a couple of weeks. But then, I’ll definitely be back. I don’t have a set date yet…just taking it day by day…
Hoefully?!?
I really gotta slow down when I type!
At the bottom of the page are links to the text formatting rules for PmWiki.
BB. Melanie Thanks!!
Melanie. I took a look at the text formatting rules…they were very hard to understand.
to copy the link in PMwiki markup- (FOR PC)
right click on the link- select copy link location.
Goto your comment box, select the proper location in your preformatted pmwikie markup brackets, right click and select paste
voila
Tom,
I’m a PC idiot and it took me a while to sit with them and then go to the wiki sandbox and try them. Once you do that, they aren’t so opaque.
This issue anonymity has come up several times recently. The problem is not so much we want to know who you are.
We don’t.
Really.
The problem is forum conversations are already limited by lack of access to facial expressions, voice tonality, or body language, all the minimal cues that people use to decipher communication. So you have to work extra hard at figuring out what people mean by the words that they use.
If you are talking to lots of people on the forums every day, sooner or later your ability to decipher these cues get rather exhausted. When someone uses a pseudonym, at least over time you learn a few things about the way that that person writes, their sense of humour (or lack thereof), their understanding of issues, their previous questions, etc.
It reduces the workload on our brains.
And that’s not even mentioning when there are more than one anonymous posts on the same thread.
If you have an issue with cookies, just clear your cache regularly and type in the author name every time you post.
«Then choose a handle. Eventually, whether you like it or not, registration will REQUIRE you to choose a name, or go somewhere else. »
Thank goodness. I dont even bother reading posts from anonymous posters anymore. Just too many of ‘em. I think.
BTW the words we use only constitute 15% of communication cues.
That is fully 85% of what someone means is lost in internet conversations as opposed to normal conversations.
Hi Melanie! Here’s a couple of questions I hope you can answer: When we discuss whether or not our communities/states/nations are “ready”, has there ever been an affirmative answer? Is there a document somewhere that sets the standards? I realize the impossibility of ever being completely ready, but have TPTB who are trained in disaster management actually communicated where they think we need to be? Give me links, pleeeeze!
Mosaic at 22:51
“Thank goodness. I dont even bother reading posts from anonymous posters anymore. Just too many of em. I think.”
Yes, this is a rather frequent remark from regular forum participants. Seems that mods are not the only ones who get frustrated.
There’s another way of looking at this. A forum is a community built up over time. Like all communities, it requires a certain degree of commitment, shared values, contribution from individuals towards the collective good. Hence, it natural for regular participants to view with less enthusiasm those who do not contribute to the wellbeing of the community. Anonymous posters are more likely to be viewed in this way, whether they deserve it or not.
Swann,
The actual answer is “No.” That’s why we are prepping here.
I was afraid that would be your answer. Thanks.
Swann --- From what I’ve seen, read and heard, the City of Seattle seems to have a very good grasp of what is needed to be prepared. Except for the mention of only having 1 week’s worth of food in your house, the site lays things out quite well.
Seattle and King County Public Health website
Municipal Research and Services Center of Washington
Hope this helps…
And I’d be willing to bet that Microsoft had a lot of input into Seattle’s plans…seeing as how they’re the city’s largest employer!
Some anonymous posters are new, and you can tell by the kind of questions they ask etc.
Some anonymous posters may be from governments or are organized as a tag team with an agenda. Some are very well versed on the subject, know how to format the documents very nicely, but presenting pseudo arguments and down playing the situation behind an anonymous handle.
Then there are those who wastes a lot of time provoking … and disrupts the civilized discussions we have here.
I hope we have registration soon.
actually, University of Washington and Boeing are the largest employers.
Actually, Boeing moved to Chicago 4 years ago.
Last time I looked, Boeing was still firmly in place down at Sea-Tac and at the plant in Everett. Interesting note - in April, China made a deal for 80 737s, finishing a deal for 150. Bombadier (Canada) will provide the engines.
ANON-YYZX- Then there are those who wastes a lot of time provoking and disrupts the civilized discussions we have here.
Yes, and they don’t all go by the handle “anonymous,” either.
DO pick a handle. It helps sorting things out.
Please.
anon_22 at 22:48. Thanks for the explanation about the objections to posting as “anonymous”. It’s the first time I’ve seen a reasonable civil explanation and I appreciate that you took the time.
anon_22, it never occurred to me that “regulars” think it’s some kind of a privacy issue. It isn’t for me. None of us are private, we’re on an internet website. And none of you use your names. I can clearly see how it’s distracting, inconvenient and fatiguing in a dialogue with multiple exchanges; aside from this, I haven’t seen why it makes a difference one way or another. A “handle” doesn’t lend credibility, nor does it serve to enhance or clarify written material. I see that it does create a sense of familiarity and community, mostly a postive thing, but at times not. It seems to be a convention, and that compliance is important for participation here.
Initially, I didn’t realize that posting without a psuedonym was frowned upon. The curt responses have been annoying at best, and rather interruptive. I thought it was anonymous internet incivility to individuals not in the clique, or that some inner group are acquainted outside of this website and that we’re intruding into their private club, despite the mission of the website. I chose not to personalize anonymous rudeness by offering a name for strangers’ convenience.
I post something here and there; it may add something or not. I haven’t planned to engage in conversational threads. The threads are great, but invariably get shut down by one of several “regulars” who routinely pop in, announce that they don’t like the thread and could everyone stop now. I really can’t tell who the moderators are - there are several that aren’t listed as moderators, but seem to serve that function.
Everyone will make their own selections on what to read and what to pass up. To refuse to read a post because of how it’s posted (one single word in the line header), rather than based on its content, seems like cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face.
I have no problem with registering for this website, and frankly, I think you should require it. The reasons for keeping it an open forum seem to have been lost.
anon_22 at 22:48. Thanks for the explanation about the objections to posting as “anonymous”. It’s the first time I’ve seen a reasonable civil explanation and I appreciate that you took the time.
anon_22, it never occurred to me that “regulars” think it’s some kind of a privacy issue. It isn’t for me. None of us are private, we’re on an internet website. And none of you use your names. I can clearly see how it’s distracting, inconvenient and fatiguing in a dialogue with multiple exchanges; aside from this, I haven’t seen why it makes a difference one way or another. A “handle” doesn’t lend credibility, nor does it serve to enhance or clarify written material. I see that it does create a sense of familiarity and community, mostly a postive thing, but at times not. It seems to be a convention, and that compliance is important for participation here.
Initially, I didn’t realize that posting without a psuedonym was frowned upon. The curt responses have been annoying at best, and rather interruptive. I thought it was anonymous internet incivility to individuals not in the clique, or that some inner group are acquainted outside of this website and that we’re intruding into their private club, despite the mission of the website. I chose not to personalize anonymous rudeness by offering a name for strangers’ convenience.
I post something here and there; it may add something or not. I haven’t planned to engage in conversational threads. The threads are great, but invariably get shut down by one of several “regulars” who routinely pop in, announce that they don’t like the thread and could everyone stop now. I really can’t tell who the moderators are - there are several that aren’t listed as moderators, but seem to serve that function.
Everyone will make their own selections on what to read and what to pass up. To refuse to read a post because of how it’s posted (one single word in the line header), rather than based on its content, seems like cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face.
I have no problem with registering for this website, and frankly, I think you should require it. The reasons for keeping it an open forum seem to have been lost. And that’s enough of this subject. Thanks again, anon_22.
Oops. Sorry.
Thanks BB. They provide a family health info sheet that is helpful, and it was a good reminder for me to get those done ASAP.
I guess I am just anxious to find more detailed plans than we are currently seeing. “YOYO” is not going to get my community ready. Seems like we are paying taxes to fund the salaries of some well-trained disaster management types who need to be producing and publishing the blueprints for the structures we need to enable survival.
Can anyone tell me why sometimes if I enclose something in 3 single quotation marks - to make it bold - that it doesn’t work? What am I doing wrong?
Commonground at 07:31 “Can anyone tell me why sometimes if I enclose something in 3 single quotation marks - to make it bold - that it doesnt work? What am I doing wrong?”
Did you do it exactly this way '''something'''?
Remember that if you write in paragraphs, each paragraph has to be enclosed separately. Same for each new line that you start. ie the quotation marks only work for continuous text.
3 single apostrophes on either end is what you should be using, not 3 single “”“quotation”“” marks.
3 apostrophes, word. 3 apostrophes. No spaces.
anonymous at 02:39
Thanks for your response. The somewhat curt responses to anonymous posters are unfortunate.
By way of explanation and not defence, I just want to add that this has only started very recently, mostly because of one very frequent poster who had previously used a handle and then decided to drop that handle.
This ‘anonymous’ is one of those who repeatedly asks questions which others pretty much find unanswerable or adequately answered, but would not accept such responses with grace but rather with suspicion and charges of insincerity. Since this particular person has a very unique writing style and some shall we say fastidious attention to one or two particular issues, he/she is often clearly recognizable to regular participants, who understandably are rather miffed by someone who demands sincerity of others while hiding behind anonymous posts.
Because of this history, and because of a couple of mildly unpleasant exchanges with this person, it has become particularly irksome recently when reading anonymous posts to figure out whether it is the same person repeating the same old story or it is a new person asking perfectly legitimate questions (because they are new).
All this is not to say that we are perfectly happy with being rude to anonymous posters, and I do apologize to those who have been inadvertently offended in this way.
Eventually we will require registration, but in the meantime, we still welcome people who choose to post anonymously.
Just be aware that you may end up being lumped with some other anonymous poster(s) who have been annoying others and thus receive less than friendly responses!
Very nicely summarized and written, anon_22. I always appreciate your informative and compassionate style.
Anon_22 - thanks. I didn’t realize every paragraph and each new line had to be enclosed. I appreciate your help and time. I also researched on how to make a break in the line without a double return. I’ll be able to condense my posts much better now.
anon_22- Since this particular person has a very unique writing style and some shall we say fastidious attention to one or two particular issues, he/she is often clearly recognizable to regular participants, who understandably are rather miffed by someone who demands sincerity of others while hiding behind anonymous posts.
You presume to speak for all the “regular particpants” here, but i doubt you do. Most people who disagree with you or Melanie or any (either?) of the de facto mods are unlikely to speak up because they realize they will probably get trampled. The particular anonymous you refer to had reasons of his/her own to start going by anonymous that have not been acknowledged or even attempted to be understood by others. It seems few are interested in his/her POV, and the “incessant badgering” by those who are miffed comes across as disrespectful and sometimes downright bullying.
anonymous at 09:13
“You presume to speak for all the regular particpants here, but i doubt you do. Most people who disagree with you or Melanie or any (either?) of the de facto mods are unlikely to speak up because they realize they will probably get trampled. The particular anonymous you refer to had reasons of his/her own to start going by anonymous that have not been acknowledged or even attempted to be understood by others. It seems few are interested in his/her POV, and the incessant badgering by those who are miffed comes across as disrespectful and sometimes downright bullying.”
See, the first thought that comes to mind is is this the same anonymous as the one that I just responded to?
I will let others decide whether they get ‘trampled’ when they disagree.
And it is pretty hard to figure out someone’s POV if you can’t figure out which point has been made by that same person before, so all you’ve got every time is a single post to build your understanding on. Pretty slim data, IMHO. With the best will in the world, it’s pretty hard to be able to respond appropriately.
Trampled? Please cite occasions where someone has been trampled. The mods tread pretty lightly here.
For those new comers who want to post but not sure about the privacy and the issue about cookies, a frequent poster Monotreme suggested that you can disable cookies and still post under a handle by entering the handle in the ‘Author’ box on the bottom of the screen every time you post. This will allow you to build your online personality and start making friends still anonymously. You will also run a lower risk of being lumped with the trespassers who don’t want to contribute anything useful here. If you choose to use a handle, you will also help reduce the confusion that the trespassers want to create, we will all be able to see quickly. This forum is the most civilized I’ve seen anywhere. Please help us keep it that way.
anonymous 9:13 Hi GS. I wish you would get over it. You are posting under GSGS at Current Events so why should flu wiki only recieve your posts as anonymous.
I think you need to be consistent on both.
anon_22 at 13:09- We close threads from time to time when the discussion is be moving too far from the intention of the original post, or the purpose of this forum, or most of the important points have been covered.
22, While you can speak authoritatively to the purpose of this forum, you cannot speak authoritatively to the intention of an original post, unless you are the one who made it. Also, you have no way of knowing if “most” of the important points have been covered; there are perhaps more that would be brought up later if you had not closed down a thread. When all of the important points (at least as far as any of us know and care to post) have been covered, then a thread will sink on its own—no need to intrude.
anonynous 10:54. Hi gs…you again.
I like you very much…in fact I don’t know of one person on flu wiki who doesn’t like you very much…
…but you are throwing a ‘wrench in the works’with the anonymous thing…
Anonymity was managable before you went over the dark side…now there are too many it is just confusing…
…so go back to being gs…your post mean to much to us to be bunched with anonynmous postings that leave us guessing whether they are you or not.
Hi any available mods, from my perspective the site has been going slower in the last half hour. Greetings
While you can speak authoritatively to the purpose of this forum, you cannot speak authoritatively to the intention of an original post, unless you are the one who made it.
Not true. Anyone can speak with authority to the intention of an original post, based on their personal experiences and based on what and how that post is written. Example: if someone starts a thread stating that there is now a cure for human H5N1, most here can speak with authority based on what they have read and the experiences they’ve had in dealings with people in the know.
The Moderators are here to moderate, to keep threads on track. Rarely are threads closed by the Mods unless the thread goes so far off track that the original idea has been completely lost in the discussion.
Ocean2 at 11:18 --- I’m not a mod, but I’ve noticed it too. Guess I’ve got some more work to do tonight…
anonymous at 10:54
“While you can speak authoritatively to the purpose of this forum, you cannot speak authoritatively to the intention of an original post,”
The intention of the original post, (assuming you are talking about the Request from China thread, which I don’t know if it’s the case since I can’t tell one anonymous from another), was to put up a request for help supposedly from people in China. Either people choose to respond or they don’t. I do not find anything in the original post to suggest any other intention such as whether that site is responsible for credit card phishing, which btw comes way too close to libel.
If you have an important point to make, you can always start a new thread.
“When all of the important points (at least as far as any of us know and care to post) have been covered, then a thread will sink on its ownno need to intrude.”
If we let all threads go on till they sink, we might as well not moderate this forum.
This is a moderated forum. We have never pretended that this is a free-for-all forum. It is moderated within certain parameters so as to serve the purpose of this site, which is to discuss and disseminate information related to pandemic flu.
Bronco Bill - at 11:26 - I don’t think you are going to be able to wait until tonight. It’s running real real slow.
Melanie,
I’m sure that if I had the time and inclination I could find many examples of trampling.
While this (typical) post of yours on the Free Speech thread-
We put up the rules when we opened shop. If you dont like em, take your business elsewhere.
may not be an example of trampling, it’s hardly “treading lightly.”
And I think it illustrates why more people who disagree with you are not posting.
“And I think it illustrates why more people who disagree with you are not posting.”
THAT is probably the funniest thing I’ve read today.
How do you know people disagree with Melanie if they are not posting?
Anyway, this is a case of never being able to please everyone.
Oh well.
Come to think of it, I disagree with Melanie on quite a few things, such as whether dogs or cats make better pets.
Just kidding. :-)
Seriously, we DO have very different takes on threat assessment and how much preps is appropriate for ourselves and/or others, etc.
It is like the clergyman ponding on the pulpit about all those who do not attend services.
The crowd looks arond and thinks, We are here.
And I think it’s time we just start to ignore anyone who posts with anonymous as their handle.
I’d love it if someone could tell me what “my point of view” is, beyond quite confused.
better get over to the Detroit Warehouse.
The Forum is near a standstill - getting timeout error messages.
I can start closing old threads now, but it’s gonna make a mess of the Last 50 Changes list!
BB- better a mess than a shutdown. Pages will hardly load. Worst I’m had in months. LL
Bronco Thanks for closing old threads. If someone thinks that they have more to say, they can always just start a new thread and link to the old one. But most of the time, the old ones do little but slow the server down. Yes, it does mess up the 50 list, but not for long- just bump the live threads.
and my point of view is that cats make better pets :)
Bronco Bill at 12:04, I have skipped over most posts from anonymous for a long time now- so do others, as I’ve read . When I first started reading here, it quickly became apparent that the posts from anonymous were 1)insulting or unfriendly, 2)without much content or contribution, or 3) IMO deliberately misleading or distracting, often appearing during contentious or involved discussions among the regular posters. Now, with this insight it’s easy to skip over anon’s- he/she/they certainly understand the reasons behind a request for a handle. This ploy is used as an attention-grabber`, if you want to play that game. That was fun getting that off my chest!
BTW, thanks for clearing up the threads. Were more people posting because of the news from Michigan?
Ocean2 at 13:23 --- I agree.
Were more people posting because of the news from Michigan?
So far today, there have been 1,353 Forum visits, with 8,271 page views. I’m not sure what time pogge has the timer set to begin each day (my guess would be midnite East Coast time). Good chance we have a lot more visitors today…
The Wiki server has had 966 visits today, with 1895 page views…
I need a Mod to give me the go-ahead to close threads during the day…Melanie? pogge? Anon_22?
BB,
Go ahead.
Traffic is consistent with the last few weeks.
Will do…it’ll be slow going for a little while…
22- “How do you know people disagree with Melanie if they are not posting?”
I’ll grant you that it is possible no one but me thinks Melanie has been guilty of “trampling.” However, over the months, many people have indicated they find Melanie (and you for that matter) to be at times, uh, impolite. They often stop posting soon after, and I’d imagine that’s because they are usually told that if they don’t like the way you run things to start their own forum or leave. I notice when regulars stop posting. And I notice that they often stop posting after one of Melanie’s (or your) “light treads.” Sometimes they even outright announce they are leaving. Maybe you haven’t noticed. Maybe you don’t even care. Your way or the highway. You’ve made that quite clear.
In any event, your laughing response implies you’ve missed my point which is that when someone who protests or disagrees is told by a mod to take their business elsewhere, such a response not only often results in the poster actually leaving, but it also sets an example for others more timid that it’s simply not safe to disagree.
for the record I agree with Melanie in most mod items. I am glad she has this forum and with all its faults, it is a good on. Thank you Melanie.
The mods don’t speak with one voice. There are as many opinions as there are keyboards here. That said, we do have house rules, which we don’t think are particularly onerous. Break the rules repeatedly and we have to wonder why you want to be here.
oceans2- Now, with this insight its easy to skip over anons- he/she/they certainly understand the reasons behind a request for a handle. This ploy is used as an attention-grabber
You really have no way of knowing why someone opts for “anonymous.” Just as there are reasons behind a request for a handle, there are reasons—probably no less compelling—for someone choosing “anonymous.”
That said, if you choose to ignore anonymous posters I don’t think anyone will mind.
I fail to see why someone would insist on being anonymous when they could just put in some thing like “xxxasdfg” or “anon1234567″if they did not want to be known. I think the mods can see you IP address if they wanted. So I just don’t see what reasons there may be to insist on “anonymous”. Please explain why “anonymous” is so much better than a “fake name”. With a handle, other posters can at least tell one poster from another when we answer or reply.
Only pogge can “see” IP addresses, but he has a day job and other better things to do. Picking a pseudonym helps us keep the discussions on track.
Melanie at 18:00- That said, we do have house rules, which we dont think are particularly onerous. Break the rules repeatedly and we have to wonder why you want to be here.
The point of the example (cited only at your request) was not about the rules. The point was your response on Free Speech thread when someone disagreed with your interpretation of the rules, after which you abruptly invited them to leave.
And not that I agree with your characterization of that poster as someone who repeatedly broke the rules (fluid though they may be) or even as someone who’s stayed, but as to why anyone would want to be here? It’s called H5N1. For many it overshadows all else.
For many it overshadows all else.
Then post something about H5N1 that is relevant to any conversation on FluWiki, and quit dredging up the past, as you seem want to do every time you post to this thread.
DennisC- So I just dont see what reasons there may be to insist on anonymous.
I can’t speak for everyone else, and I don’t wish to share my own reasons, but I think in one case the poster felt under attack and wished to have his/her posts judged only on content.
I wish those who keep saying they are going to ignore anonymous posts would hurry up and just get to it.
I see nothing wrong with Melanie being the one that interprets the rules. She is the one that pays for the site and they are after all her rules. If the site cannot be what she imagines it to be, then why should she even have the site? Remember that the “free speech” only applies to a public forums and this is not that.
Again, Melanie, thank you for the site and making it what it is. I hope we never forget why the site exists and all the hard work you have put into it.
gs. I’m sure you have a good reason for your comments to be only judged on content but to be consistent, your comments are not judged on content on Current Events so it is unfair for us to have to guess and differentiate you from all the other anonymooses.
We spend way too much time trying to differentiate your comments from others…and in the fall time may be of essence for many…
…anyway, like I said before, you are loved on flu wiki so stop ‘screwing around’ and use your own name…
…or we will all go anonymous and we’ll all have to quit because flu wiki will make no sense.
Bronco Bill at 18:33
anonymous wants to be judge, jury, and executioner, and wants to put the mods on trial. There is no interest in H5N1 or anything else.
anonymous, or whoever you are, its been many hours, you’ve been doing a monologue. Your tactics ain’t working. No one cares about your ‘cause’. Get over it.
Life is good, without anonymous.
anonymous-at 18:38:
Yes, but content is very little without context and continuity. You could at least number yourselves. I don’t think anyone’s interested in where you live or how many kids you have or your social security number. Maybe the best thing to do is respond to anonymous as one large amorphous ball.
The Forum Rules aren’t mine. They were proposed and debated here publicly months ago. If you have an issue you want to raise, do so with a link.
Tom DVM at 18:43
“or we will all go anonymous and well all have to quit because flu wiki will make no sense.”
Now THAT has just topped my charts today of the funniest comment! It’s one of those that make you think “how come I didn’t think of that line before Tom did?”
I have an immediate visual of a long thread of anonymous posts..
ARGH!
LOL
Thou shall from this moment respond to anonymous anonymously.
/:0)
And what do you do when anonymous keeps talking to himself and answering his own questions?
ANON-YYZ,
Ignore him.
Please.
I don’t understand why anonymous postings are so threatening to people. If people are sincere, who cares whether they take a handle or not? The point here is getting information out about H5N1. Why not respect people’s preferences instead of getting all upset about it? It’s as though it flies against some kind of need for control. Get a grip. The more people learn about H5N1 the safer we all are. THAT is the most important thing. Not whether you think it’s socially inappropriate that they choose not to make up some silly name. Saying that you want to ignore people who post anonymously sounds like a lot of schoolyard balogney to me. The worst thing about this forum (as in any social group) is when it gets clickish and there is an “in crowd” and an “out crowd.” That will drive people away faster than you can say “high school.”
As far as Melanie “treading lightly” goes, I must agree with Anonymous. Melanie’s style is very blunt and sometimes comes across like a bucket of cold water thrown in the face, to say the least. It’s a style I don’t care for because I think it hurts people’s feelings, but one that we have to live with, just like we have to live with people who want to post as “Anonymous”. I can already hear Bronco Bill coming to defend Melanie (not that she needs it!), since he can’t bear that anyone say anything remotely critical of her. Click. (Sigh).
Tom,
You are so good-natured I think you must look like your smilie. Do you?
please ignore me
Tucker,
I don’t think anyone has said anonymous postings are threatening.
If you follow this thread carefully, you will realize this was started by way of explaining how come anonymous posts can create problems and misunderstandings, sometimes disadvantaging those who post anonymously, as when someone is mistaken for another who has been annoying to others.
You will probably also notice that posts about whether they will read anonymous posts were made by participants, not the mods.
I can’t speak for the others but I for one am willing to tolerate anonymous posts within reason (ie I am still responding to them) but would much rather they pick a handle, just to make everyone’e lives easier.
Tucker,
All of the mods have very different personalities. Anon_22 and Dem are very outgoing and their posts reflect that. I’m an introvert and don’t tend to say much, here or in any other public gathering. I’m close with my words as a personality style.
It doesn’t have anything to do with you. I just don’t say much.
gs. Was that you at 19:10 and 19:14 or visa versa or etc.
In life, some would say I am good natured and some would say I’m an ‘blank’…trying not to use the *** button.
I’m not sure if I look like my smile or not…if you stop calling yourself anonymous and the others quit to…and if I knew more about computers I might put my picture on flu wiki…as I really don’t care about anonymity anyway.
I might suggest others do the same as well but there are some like Monotreme that shouldn’t reveal themselves.
It’s kind of the old ‘dead man walking’ argument.
anon at 19:14 - ‘please ignore me’
That’s a fake-out and you know it. You can do better than that.
Tucker at 19:08 --- First, anonymous postings in and of themselves are not threatening to anyone. It’s the fact that nobody can differentiate between the various anonymouses on the different threads (except the one making a vain attempt at arguing it’s point here—some of us are fairly certain who it is). When multiple people post as anonymous, and specifically when they post with antagonizing comments meant to disrupt the flow of the discussion, we don’t know if it’s one person or many. Perhaps if you’ve been around much, you would have noticed that.
Second, I don’t need to defend Melanie. She’s a big girl now, and can take care of herself. I don’t believe I’ve ever had to come to her rescue.
Third, I heard a Click at the end of your post. I can only hope that was your dial-up modem hanging up.
Is that Tucker from CE, who has ferrets?
Even I go to bed sometimes.
I had a tuxedo cat called Tucker.
Lily,
This is the “ask the mods” thread. Please take your comments elsewhere.
Yes..
see what I mean?
I distinctly read a Please in there.
And you just keep pushing…
anon_22,
I agree with most of your comments, but not
I do not find anything in the original post to suggest any other intention such as whether that site is responsible for credit card phishing, which btw comes way too close to libel.
Some anonymous person persuaded DemFromCT to post a link to the FIC site. I did not find the request from that site credible. Others found links suggesting that another site registered to the same company was responsible for credit card phishing. Links and references were provided. Although there was much speculation, no one said that they had evidence that the FIC was a credit card phishing scheme, simply that skepticism was warranted. I think the issue was handled responsibly by all involved. The thread had run its course, so I have no objection to it being it closed, but I don’t think is fair to characterise the comments on that thread as libelous or close to libelous.
Moderators,
Thank you for the time and energy you expend in supporting this very important site and cause.
? Has there been a thread on Waste Disposal?
Thanks in advance for your response.
anonymous. Now see, this person is no name…sounds like anonymous but the difference is that I can follow his/her posts and connect the information in previous posts to current posts and this will help both of us learn from each other.
So drop the anonymous handle and replace it with gs!!!!!!!
anonymous and Tucker,
Let me try to explain why I don’t give as much weight to anonymouses as to posts from people with handles. In a way, we are all anonymous, except for the very few who choose to identify themselves. So the problem is not with anonymonity, per se. We are all in favor of that. The issue is not privacy, either. I don’t like cookies and routinely block them. I type in my handle each time. Not too hard. The real issue is ease of conversation. If there was only one anonymous, that could be their handle. But there isn’t just one, there are at least two. Sometimes they post after each other and I can’t tell who is who. This leads to unnecessary confusion. A second issue is credibility. There are certain posters I trust more than others because they have a track record. Over time, it is possible to discern individual biases and competences. I find this very useful. I will read posts from people, I don’t “know”, but will not give them the same weight as a post from someone I do “know”. This isn’t because I believe in old-boys clubs, simply that it is harder to interpret the posts from people who I don’t have much experience with. As anon_22 points out, it is hard enough to “read” people without facial expressions. A lack of a frame of reference makes it that much harder.
Durn Monotreme…..
I wrote almost the very same thing. Of course, I think you put it more elegantly.
I do not post much… but I have been reading Fluwiki for about a year. These past couple of months, it has been frustrating to try and determine which is which…… I no longer try.
Like others, I usually read the post, but because I cannot “see” who is speaking, I do not place much credibility into what I read. I too, do not see the problem of adopting a “name”… unless it is to just irritate the readers and the moderators. It certainly does not warrant all this discussion.
Sometimes, you just need to “let it go”.
That is just “For what it is worth…”
So ladies and gentlemen…I have searched the site without success(new at this) for information of proper disposal of S**T in case TSHTF and the water and sewer services are out of service. I live in a single family home with a moderate size back yard.
I can see I have interrupted a passionate debate…sorry…but should I dig a hole and sprinkle the waste with lime. Point me in the right direction and I will get out of the way.
Thanks
no name at 22:43
Did you try to search “toilet” or “garbage”?
no name at 22:43
Also try search “composting toilet” or “chemical toilet”
and/or take a look at this:
Composting toilet is not cheaped though.
I suggest we respond to all anonymous as one anonymous. Their posts are all one. They could distinguish themselves as “pear tree” or “rabid dog” or “runway #2″ or just any old thing no less anonymous. Again I suggest we studiously regard them all as the same big sack of anonymous. If one anonymous says something objectionable, they’ve all said it. Maybe if they all get tarred with like brushes they’ll distinguish themselves out of vanity.
That’s cold, but a legit point of view.
no name: I can’t believe I have this to share but it may help you: http://www.weblife.org/humanure/default.html
Long thread closed for speed, but continued here.