Continued from here
Number 10 in a continuing series. Ask your questions of the Mods, whether they be about FluWiki, the Wiki side, the Forum side, or anything else related to this board. Someone will answer.
Spam alert Increased Cytokine Production in H 5 N 1 Patients (again).
thanks.. pogge’s on it.
I suppose you are reluctant to “dispose” of any thread, since such old threads might contain valuable archived information. However, has it been considered for the “Cytokine Production” thread, since there is obviously something about it that attracts some of the ugliest spam around?
If the file name is a target on some spammer’s list, the page would be recreated even if it didn’t already exist.
Spam on Cytokine thread again.
Monotreme asked me if we could store old threads on the sing url and I said sure. We have lots of space. So if want to send me some threads for deep archive we can do that. I can setup a new directory and set it for download etc. just like we do with the large file and the excel indonesia data. Anytime…better a small steady amount, than all at once….give it some thought. It is your sandbox…I just play here…grin.
Oh, and I would be happy to produce a DVD copy of the data and send it to the mods….
At the moment, that’s a no go. There’s too much IP personal data that shows up in the archived threads (I’m told), and one needs a functional copy of PmWiki to read them in any case.
pogge does have them stored, however.
Spam,again Increased C thread. What`s with that one? It just draws spam.
it’s a ‘bot, on auto-spam.
Isn’t there extraction software that can download a site which would not acquire personal information? I believe gs has done this in the past. Certainly one can copy and paste threads into Word as I have done. Automating this process should be possible, right? Even without pmwiki we can read the text. It may not look pretty, but would still be useful for datamining purposes.
Right after the Crash of ‘06, I was able to use the software that GS posted to download a copy of nearly all the threads that were still on FW while only a few were open to writing. Nearly 1800 of them. If I drill down into my Windows Explorer, I can double-click on a file and pull up an exact Forum thread with all the posts on it. It looks exactly like the forum as you’re looking at this now. No IPs, no names no identifiers except peoples’ handles. However, the software won’t let me download anything since then, and the files aren’t identifiable by thread name…only an HTML name similar to pmwiki51e0.html or some such. The only way to find anything specific is to double-click on each and every file. Way too much work…
Hi there happy Mods
Next time you are having a clean-up could you please “Closed and Continued” the Australia and New Zealand 21 thread - I have started a new Thread ‘Australia and New Zealand for September’.
Thanks so much - AnnieB
Spam again - on ‘Increased Cytokine Reaction’ thread!!
How about deleting the cytokine thread and copying the posts to a new thead with a slightly different name?
Monotreme
AnnieB – at 23:10 --- Your wish is my command. Done.
Monotreme --- I asked the same question. pogge explained that even if we open a different thread and delete that one, the ‘bots have the code to that thread and would simply open a new thread with the same old name. I’ve seen it happen with two other threads that were closed months ago, and all of a sudden, they pop up as new threads with the same old name. I’m not sure how spam ‘bots work, but I wish there were a silver bullet to shoot there way….
BB, we need our own bots to automatically remove spam as soon as it appears ;-)
I’m not sure I understood your post about the software gs used. Do you think it is possible to extract the thread info as text and then read it in Word? I can do this by hand thread-by-thread, but it would be nice to be able to automate the process.
Hi guys! I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo getting tired of all the “anonymous” posts. When it seems that several people are posting under “anonymous”, it so incredibly confusing. AND . . . It seems like they are increasing. I don’t care if someone makes a pithy remark about New York’s preparations (or lack thereof) vs what brand of diapers are good for a pandemic. Everyone writes under assumed names (except for BB and pogge), so why can’t people choose an innocuous pseudoname and stick to it?
Hi guys! I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo getting tired of all the “anonymous” posts. When it seems that several people are posting under “anonymous”, it so incredibly confusing. AND . . . It seems like they are increasing. I don’t care if someone makes a pithy remark about New York’s preparations (or lack thereof) vs what brand of diapers are good for a pandemic. Everyone writes under assumed names (except for BB and pogge), so why can’t people choose an innocuous pseudoname and stick to it?
Ange D – at 00:38 --- An age-old question. The answer lies in the fact that FluWiki is an open, public forum and doesn’t require name ID registration. Yet. The “anonymous” question has been addressed many, many times, but it just seems to spawn more “anonymouses”.
I don’t care to talk myself into more work. I will suggest that any threads that we really want, we should just print them to a file….and use them for our knowledge base away from the Internet. I have no use for every one’s URL, IP or any other information - I would just like an archive copy for getting the gems out on a very fast local computer that could be used when the Internet is down. It might be a useful service to have files of threads cleaned up and ready for a download for all to use off line. It is also about the users out there during a pandemic and not just the security of the wiki proper. It is their information. They created it. Just some thoughts that are divorced from the reality of what the mods have to do with their site.
Monotreme – at 00:25 --- GS had posted on a website a software package that allowed a user to copy websites in order to mirror them. It was a huge download, and it took me about 2 hours with DSL. Once it was set up, I was able to “mirror” the old Forum onto my PC (not a web server) while there wasn’t too much activity on the server and read all the old threads. But my copy of the download software stopped working, and I haven’t done a thorough search to find if it’s available on the web again. What I have is 315 megabytes of data, the majority of it in HTML code. If pogge or Dem wouldn’t mind, I could copy it to CD and send it to you…I’m afraid that much data would just kill an ISP’s email server…if you want, and if the Mods approve (I’ll email them), email me at wturner3 AT gmail DOT com and I’ll send the CD once I have Mods approval.
From ‘Ask Questions of the Moderators IX’, anon_22@08:01 -
“…we still welcome people who choose to post anonymously.”
http://www.fluwikie2.com/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Rules. There are 13 rules. There is no rule requiring a “handle”.
Rule Number 1.: “The forum is for friendly discussion and argument or thoughtful analysis. Be friendly. Follow the same standard of courtesy you would when talking to your neighbours, friends or co-workers.”
The Increased Cykotine thread has 3 spam entries on September 3rd. Now that is very very strange considering it’s been closed and you can’t enter a comment.
anon@5:44
What I would like to add is that the circle of fluwikie is greater than our sphere of co workers or friends or neighbours. The messages in Fluwikie have a very high cultural content. How one introduces oneself to a group is cultural and influences how i feel about a name or even a nom de plume. Our frequency of use and value judgements also infuence our perseverence with a name. their are other reasons like working behind a complex security system.
Commonground – at 05:45 pogge says that the thread address is what they have and even if it is closed they have a door in somehow.
SPAM
on the increased cytokine thread…
I don’t think, GS did what BB said.
But he did update the fluwikie-forum-archive at
http://magictour.free.fr/fw.gz
Now 33MB compressed. Decompress and search it with:
http://magictour.free.fr/fw.exe
those who post for cultural content may use a name. Best a cultural one. Something like Ali Hassan Muhammed or such and you’ll be loved by everyone.
What’s “cultural content”?
Z, slang, humour, stories what your grandpa did in 1918, why you love your pets, what you prefer for breakfast and such.
anon at 14:12 - ‘’those who post for cultural content may use a name. Best a cultural one. Something like Ali Hassan Muhammed or such and you’ll be loved by everyone.”
I’m not sure what you mean by your last sentence. Are you serious or sarcastic. I hope no one would automatically judge someone—for good or bad—based on the origin of their name. Would that be namism? whatever it is, i think it’s offensive.
On another note, I doubt that Bronco Bill is BB’s real name. Wow if it is. Not as bad as Moon Unit though.
I doubt that Bronco Bill is BB’s real name
My name is Bill.
Your name is not “Bronco”. It’s an anonymous “handle” selected by you that reveals nothing about you and protects your personal identity.
Hi gs.
I chose my handle based on the type of vehicle I used to own,, not on anything else at all. By choosing to give myself a handle, I differentiate myself from other “Bill”s on this board, and give others the opportunity to address me directly. By choosing anonymous, you have no differentiation, and are nothing more than the same as all others who can’t or won’t or don’t know how to choose an identifying handle. There needn’t be anything in a handle that identifies you personally, nor your personality or worksite. It simply allows others on the board to know who they’re talking to, and to know who is talking to them.
And if you want to get into semantics, your name is not anonymous. You are somebody…
Tom DVM – at 16:18 --- :-)
Hey Dude, I agree. The data is what’s important.
DemfromCT, Pogge, or Dude,
I have a couple of documents that would fit well with the work the Indonesian investigative team is doing.
May I please email them to one of you for posting on the ftp site?
(I am not sure how to take the personal data off… )
I don’t think anonymous at 15:49 is gs.
Oh Bill…Where are you Bill? /:0)
And to which “Bill” are you referring, good sir?
anonymous – at 19:58 --- And you would be….whom?
Tom DVM - For once and for all, let us in on the joke. Who the heck is “gs” and what is up with you and BB? I’ve been spending my time reading all the threads to figure out what that’s all about and just can’t figure it out. And honestly, I don’t really care and don’t have time to engage that way. In spite of myself and against my own good sense, I get caught up in it. Whatever it is, it has nothing to do with ME, this forum or avian influenza preparedness; it’s some kind of cliquish, personal ‘inside joke’. Are you incorrectly assuming that every ‘anonymous’ post is from an individual that you know from somewhere else, off the forum maybe? It’s distracting and annoying. And it’s way off base. I specifically look for your posts, Tom, and appreciate your opinions. This is a bit unworthy of you.
Bronco Bill, I don’t appreciate your hip, biting hard humor. You think it’s clever and funny - for me, it’s reminiscent of unpleasant junior high school boys that use joking as a weapon against peers, no one is exempt from attack and they have no boundaries. Your rough treatment is one of the reasons that I don’t use a handle. I will not participate in personalizing anonymous rudeness. Like you said at 16:19, I am indeed somebody. I often wonder if you are a teenager that has established an “identity” here for your own amusement. You’ve clearly toned it down a bit recently, and I thank you for that.
anonymous at 15:49 is me. I don’t need a fake name to exchange in honest dialogue about a serious issue. If I have something of interest to add to this community, I will. You can choose to read it or ignore it. I don’t argue with the convention of adopting a name - it’s already been established that posting with a name makes it easier to know who’s talking and that it helps with the subtleties and nuances of non-verbal communication.
Like I’ve said before, I absolutely will register when it is required. I fully believe that the gratuitious rudeness and adolescent ‘pack’ behaviour, interrupting threads and abrupt interference, will tone down when YOU have to register as well.
N. Napariaq, Alaska
Thanks for that, N. Uhm, I’ve already asked to be the first to register, after the Mods, of course…personally, I’m looking forward to it.
Rough treatment?
anonymous at 20:22,
I completely agree with your second paragraph. Although I did not choose “anonymous” primarily for that reason, it is one big reason I continue with it. I am just that contrary.
Also, gs was a very frequent poster from the early days of this forum. Very intelligent, focused, unique individual. Mathematician from Germany. For some reason, several weeks ago (maybe a few months ago now), he decided to start going by “anonymous.” Due to his unique writing style, many of the old-time regulars could still identify his posts. In spite of much pleading and whining, gs has refused to go back to that handle. Many still want him to.
What’s funny to me about Tom DVM is that he pretty much thinks every anonymous is gs.
Speaking of gs (now anonymous), he has either changed his writing style or he isn’t posting on Flu Wiki anymore (or rarely).
Even though we prefer that everyone uses a handle, just to make it easier to follow the conversations, since we have not (or are currently unable to) insisted that everyone should use one, we should respect gs’s wish to be anonymous if he wants to, IMHO. :-)
Hi, I’m not the anonymous at 05:44 or 14:08, or 14:12 or 14:38, or 20:57 or 20:22.
Just wanted to clear that up.
I’m a DIFFERENT anonymous.
Bronco Bill,
I just realized how hurt you might feel by the comments made at 20:22 and my agreement with that at 20:57. And I truly am sorry if I’ve hurt your feelings. Although I often do not like your posting style, you often make me laugh (and everyone else for that matter). You obviously make an important contribution to Flu Wiki, and I thank you for that.
Yea! The anonymouses are almost half of the people on this thread! Ya think that might be meaningful?
No, just very confusing.
Bronco Bill hurt? Naww, not him. He replied and sounds just fine, all spit and vinegar. I agree that he is a regular and does make an important contribution.
anonymous – at 21:20, NO. Those of us who are not mods have no way of knowing how many of you are out there. Could it be the same person posting multiple times?
Please explain to me how not having a handle protects your anonimity (sp?)?
Mike
Yes that is my real name.
It truly is confusing to read a thread with two or more overlapping “anonymous -es” (or anonymousi?). Sometimes an anonymous will post a question and it would help to know if this is “New guy” or “old contrarian” — I believe I’ve read a posting where someone thought “anonymous” was an old contrarian and the response was sarcastic and biting — which can really smart painfully if it’s a new guy who is striving to learn.
We’re gonna need all the brains we can get in the upcoming months. Perhaps we need a fluwiki etiquette flag/pop up/box that encourages (but does not demand) an alternative handle to “anonymous.”
BB does a great service to this board as well as having a great sense of humor. I seriously doubt that comments from anyone, let alone a anonymouse, will have any effect on him.
Tom DVM, keep that inquiring mind going. We need it.
Mike
Mods/BB let me know if I am getting out of hand and I will quit (don’t feed the trolls). I just feel that this is one of the best boards that I have found and it irks me to have anonymous people complain. All I ask is that folks identify themselves. Nothing is perfect but making snide comments/criticism by being anon is too much.
In case, you have not noticed, I support some level of registration to post.
at 21:07 --- Thank you for that. My posting style? Seems there are many others who are much “rougher” in their “style”. How shall I change my “posting style” to appease all the anonymouses who don’t like my “posting style”? Shall I not address any one person in particular? I can do that… Shall I not make any jokes at all? I can do that too. Shall I just not post anything at all? I’m perfectly capable of doing that. I’ll simply close old threads and split lengthy ones, and y’all can have at it.
at 21:20 --- Ya think that might be meaningful? Not really. To a newbie, it looks like one person is arguing with him/herself.
CAMike - All I ask is that folks identify themselves. Nothing is perfect but making snide comments/criticism by being anon is too much.
Excuse me? I posted with my REAL NAME and the state I live in DIDJA WANT MY ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER?!
I rest my case. Every anonymous makes it difficult to follow a thread and give any credibility to respected posters and those who are known by the pseudonym they choose to post their posts by.
And,BB’s “hip,biting humor” is intelligent and witty. Sarcastic at times,because he doesn’t suffer fools lightly. He is also one of the first to support the underdogs when they surface. BB doesn’t deserve to be criticized because we are discussing the use of anonymous when posting.
My comment was just a plea to those who post in the anonymous mode. If two people (-horrors-MORE) are posting as anonymous on the same thread, one cannot tell who is conversing, who is trying to make a point, and after awhile, it seems that one very unusually unstable person is arguing with him-self, her-self and/or anon-self.
Olymom – at 21:35, great post. I agree with your basic premise that it is difficult to seperate out the people that post as anonymous.
For those that post as anonymous, I apologise for using the term anonymouse. Instead, please choose a handle even if it is only anonymous1. There have been a lot of great posts from those that use anonymous but how do we sort out the good from the bad.
This is the only thread where I read anonymous posts (and not for much longer). On other threads I tend to ignore them since I do not know whom I am getting advice from.
Folks, this will likely be my last post on this subject. Some of the earlier posts rubbed me wrong. The fluwikie forum is a great source of information and it irks me to see anonymous criticism of the folks that run/support the site.
If anyone would like to tear into me my e-mail addy is in my profile.
Lets hope thimgs are not as bad as some of us expect and lets all keep on prepping.
Mike
The next iteration of the Forum will require registration. We have warned/alerted posters of that (depending on your POV) for some months.
The mods do not have access to IP or personal detail except for pogge, the webmaster. We are a non-commercial site and do nothing with the information.
anonymous – at 21:45, please read the reply from “Ange D – at 21:46″.
No offense but ot is far easier for readers to identify posters by their handles then by reading their replies.
No, I have no interest in your address or phone number. I humbly apoligise if my earlier reply caused any offense. My e-mail address is in my profile if you would like to take this offline.
I mentioned above that I support registration before posting (non-intrusive - just a means to sort the posters out).
Apologies to all that I may have offended. I do tend to go balistic at times.
Mike
BB,
If you want to know what I mean by your posting style, read paragraph 2 of anon at 20:22. I didn’t write it, but I completely agree.
Anon at 21:07
anonymous. The fact that you can respond to Bronco Bill and myself is a testament how the choice of a name allows flu wiki to operate.
How would you like it if every person on flu wiki was anonymous?
You are obviously a highly intelligent poster and my friend gs is also a highly intelligent poster although maybe you are a number of highly intelligent posters.
Actually, I just figured out the problem a few minutes ago…
…BASICALLY, IT IS DISRESPECTFUL.
Dr. Tom Gastle…Lakefield, Ontario, Canada. /:0)
Registration? That’ll suck.
And by the way…I like you…N. Napariaq, Alaska…so pick a name and help us out…we need all the help we can get.
this post pretty much clears up the problem:
Hi, I’m not the anonymous at 05:44 or 14:08, or 14:12 or 14:38, or 20:57 or 20:22. Just wanted to clear that up. I’m a DIFFERENT anonymous.
anonymous – at 22:40, yes in a way it will. However, registration info can be kept to a minimum (perhaps just an e-mail address). By the way, which anonymous are you?
Following Tom’s lead:
Michael Huber, Sunnyvale, California. Fire when ready. :D
Mike
or, rather ir ‘defines the problem.
Can we cool the remarks on personalities please? Thanks!
Mods,
In amoungst the bickering please notice the post by FloridaGirl – at 18:06. She is asking an important question. Thanks.
Nuff said. Apologies for starting this. This is my last post on this topic.
Mike
It’s like watching a tennis match . . . while drinking RWFK . . .
There, that’s better; now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.
top 100 posters:
posts handle
-------------------------
4847 DemFromCT
4385 anonymous
3629 anon_22
3093 MaMa
3037 Melanie
2572 Monotreme
2518 Tom DVM
2390 Grace RN
2289 Eccles
2205 Kathy in FL
2089 BroncoBill
2006 Washington Post Jan. 1
1875 crfullmoon
1842 NS1
1710 Hillbilly Bill
1614 Lily
1611 lugon
1579 gs
1549 DennisC
1344 ricewiki
1285 Medical Maven
1206 ANON-YYZ
1191 Bronco Bill
1151 niman
1016 1
0956 JoeW
0872 dubina
0833 Kim
0832 Okieman
0795 Racter
0725 Fla_Medic
0714 Snowhound1
0714 lauraB
0657 Many Cats
0637 Watching in Texas
0577 Scaredy Cat
0577 I’m-workin’-on-it
0565 Closed - Bronco Bill
0554 Commonground
0545 April
0542 moeb
0542 AnnieB
0539 Woodstock
0515 Heather
0508 Swann
0508 Oremus
0507 NJ. Preppie
0497 Michael Donnelly
0494 Jane
0487 Hurricane Alley RN
0483 FrenchieGirl
0480 pogge
0477 European
0471 tjclaw1
0463 clark
0462 Poppy
0462 bird-dog
0461 flourbug
0457 Name
0450 Nikolai---Sydney
0442 EOD
0442 banshee
0441 mmmelody47
0434 Janet
0431 NEMO
0422 Anne
0392 LMWatBullRun
0391 jon c
0390 Leo7
0379 Will
0371 giraffe
0366 mom11
0363 Dennis in Colorado
0360 Lorelle
0357 rrteacher
0356 hoggie
0354 EnoughAlready
0353 TRay75
0349 Devils Advocate
0347 Peej
0345 Mari
0340 Mr White42
0323 Quartzman
0321 jack walt
0321 Dubina
0321 Corky52
0320 Nightowl
0319 NW
0317 MAV in Colorado
0316 Average Concerned Mom
0313 Np1
0311 Calico
0310 Nikolai-Sydney
0299 OKbirdwatcher
0294 JV
0292 Michelle
0291 TreasureIslandGal
0289 Felicia
0285 Edna Mode
0281 The Sarge
>><<
aw, shucks, I’m not in the top 100; I need to talk more. (JK)
anonymous – at 00:47
Bet that list looks different filtered for the last 3 months only.
yes, the top 100 for June,July,August 2006 only looks different.
Top contributor was anonymous, with far more posts than anyone else !
1045 anonymous
0568 anon_22
0552 Melanie
0484 Tom DVM
0440 Bronco Bill
0421 niman
0417 Kathy in FL
0389 NS1
0345 DemFromCT
0279 bird-dog
0278 Eccles
0268 Monotreme
0264 lugon
0248 Hurricane Alley RN
0235 ricewiki
0229 Hillbilly Bill
0225 lauraB
0220 ANON-YYZ
0198 LMWatBullRun
0198 Dennis in Colorado
0196 CAMike
0195 Medical Maven
0194 BroncoBill
0187 MAV in Colorado
0178 Commonground
0163 EnoughAlready
0156 I’m-workin’-on-it
0144 MaMa
0142 Edna Mode
0140 DennisC
0138 Mari
0137 Grace RN
0136 Lily
0133 Leo7
0131 OKbirdwatcher
0128 Lisa in Southern Maine
0123 Okieman
0116 KimT
0115 Average Concerned Mom
0115 Anon_451
0112 glo
0112 glennk
0111 Kim
0108 Jefiner
0105 On the fence
0105 Houston 6-Pack
0105 Gary Near Death Valley
0102 HillBilly Bill
0101 jane
0100 Dude
0098 Closed - Bronco Bill
0096 Orlandopreppie
0095 Theresa42
0095 The Sarge
0093 banshee
0093 annie
0092 LauraB
0090 Watch Dog
0089 Sahara
0089 FrenchieGirl
0087 wetDirt
0085 TRay75
0084 Roman
0084 Racter
0082 lbb
0082 crfullmoon
0080 Mr White42
0080 katherine
0079 Kellie
0078 Woodstock
0076 Will
0076 knowall
0075 Calico
0073 Heather
0070 pogge
0069 Strider
0069 SaddleTramp
0069 Northstar
0068 PBQ
0066 Worried in the City
0066 clark
0065 Prepping Gal
0065 NJ Jeeper
0064 jplanner
0063 seacoast
0063 gardner
0062 Many Cats
0062 Janet
0061 Thinlina
0060 AnnieB
0059 Quartzman
0059 Ange D
0059 2beans
0055 Swann
0055 preppiechick
0055 mom11
0055 Carrey in VA
0054 Jane
0054 bumping for bill
>><<
Wow, I have never made a top hundred before - wow!
I think that it is unfair the BB gets 2 slices at the cake - ‘Closed - Bronco Bill’ scores really well /;-D
the point of posting as anonymous is, of course, (among others)
that you want to spread the message which you just write and don’t want
to be (mis)quoted with your previous posts and attitudes.
You could use a new handle instead, but that would be somehow “cheating”
and demonstrates that you don’t stand to your old handle,
that you somehow changed your attitudes and that you are
planning to develope a new philosophy now and stick to it
and sign it with the new handle in future.
There is an anonymous post on a few threads, written in the style above - deliberately broken short lines, that are not always making sense. Threads to check include H5N1 water filter, the worst case scenario and the one I already labeled Spam Alert. I am not too sure what is going on ….
maybe you should pay more attention to the content than to the “style” ?
(I can’t resist joining in the fun of trying to “out the anonymous” — anonymous at 04:59 sounds German to me… Stimmt’s?)
we’re not here for the fun. You can get that elsewhere: [link removed]
Auf gut Deutsch: koenne mer gar nich ueber lache
In English: we’re not amused
En francais: c’est la vie (or such)
… enough non-fun for today.
Mods please. I was re-reading Monotreme’s story of Pete Prepper and Louie Lucky when one sentence lit a bulb in my head: “These supplies were quickly deployed in the key cities once sattelites showed villages going dark in China.”.
Question 1 — Yes, of course, if China gets hit with pandemic flu, they also will have energy problems. And the whole of the Western world has satellites snooping on them, among which satellites which are capable of showing light pollution maps of said country… I have roamed the Internet and found this site, but I don’t know if it’s real time: night time earth view from satellites. Do we have any FWikian who seems to know a lot about such subjects: astronomy, satellites, energy, who could have a look at these (or other sites) and perhaps undertake a surveillance of night lights in China/Indonesia/…? Of course, in case of a pandemic, the authorities would be loathe to protect energy sources, but they could be taken by surprise and not react fast enough, so our satellites might actually see “the lights going off” and if it’s not because of weather or earthquakes, we might get advance warning.
Question 2 — Along the same ideas, how about computers/servers electricity. Of course, one priority of any government would be to keep government electronics working, but not necessarily those of ordinary citizens. Could someone knowledgeable in computer programming make a program that sends repeated ping requests to yet-to-be-identified web sites that are likely to go down in case of government clamp down and report in case of ping failure of a number of them several days running? We’d get advance warning with something like this, no?
hi TomDVM,
can you help us with this diagnosis ?
Just to remind everyone, there is a HELP WANTED post in today’s News Thread - if you could take some time to help out - please do……
Hi anonymous. You’ve got a lot of nerve…but I like you anyway /:0).
I am not sure this is appropriate for this thread but I do not know what thread it would be appropriate for…so you can move it wherever you want.
You are right to point this out as potentially important. Maybe you can tell us how the location of this outbreak fits in with the present and historical locations for H5N1 in China and that would help in our investigation.
Okay, as far as the clinical signs listed, they are incredibly general and non-specific…
…Pigs have a few quirks and we have a few mistunderstandings about them. They are one of the most closely related animal species to humans and are more intelligent than most other animals…
…they cannot regulate their body temperature by sweating, and that is why they lay in wet muddy areas in the summertime. They are also prone to both ‘blushing’ and sunburn…
…therefore, any disease would produce the clinical signs mentioned.
If this has been around for some time, then veterinarians would already have a diagnosis…a preliminary one could be given by me and a knife in twenty minutes.
Once again, there is little doubt that the Chinese Government is being deliberately misleading and someone has leaked the information on ProMed.
I believe something is up in China. I’m not sure if this is what I was talking about but I would expect a disease outbreak like this in pigs as a preamble to a pandemic and have been watching for something like this.
Unfortunately, we have been told the whole truth rarely since 1997 and this is just one more instance.
DICK, MAYBE YOU WOULD LIKE TO POP ON OVER TO FLU WIKI AND STRAIGHTEN A FEW THINGS OUT FOR US…
…BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE…AND…
Thanks my friend and please, I would like to know you by another name.
anonymous – at 00:47,
top 100 posters:
posts handle
4847 DemFromCT 4385 anonymous 3629 anon_22
anonymous – at 04:15 yes, the top 100 for June,July,August 2006 only looks different. Top contributor was anonymous, with far more posts than anyone else !
1045 anonymous 0568 anon_22 0552 Melanie
Denk!
I knew there was a reason why I’m for registration!
LOL
AnnieB – at 05:41 --- That’s ‘cuz I was really hungry! ;-)
anon-22 at 22:52 -
Can we cool the remarks on personalities please? Thanks!
You know what is so irksome about this? You are quick to jump on certain individuals, certainly quick to jump on anonymi, but you let outrageously obnoxious comments by certain others slide by with impunity. Here’s an example from an earlier chapter of this thread:
Bronco Bill (to someone who disagreed with him) - Third, I heard a Click at the end of your post. I can only hope that was your dial-up modem hanging up.
And this, also by Bronco Bill - Hard to say, since anonymous is anonymous. you could be right. Perhaps if he/she is having feelings of angst, he/she should seek professional help to move past these feelings of inadequacy.
(Did that sound perfessional?) :-)’‘
Well I’ll take that last question. No it did not sound “perfessional.” It didn’t even sound professional. It was an extremely offensive comment (as was the first one I cited) that not a single moderator commented on. No, not one. Not a mention of “the rules.” Nothing.
And this is very typical and one reason I agree with analyses mentioned by others about a clique, or a pack mentality. If you’re in the in-crowd, you can get away with the type of insult—no, one far worse—than that which, coming from another person, would be cause for immediate chastisement.
And I don’t care how foolish a poster is. It is not for Bronco Bill to determine for everyone else who is or is not a fool, and even if it were, it should not be license for such rudeness (and, yes, roughness). I know if you’ve never been a target, you may not understand, you may not even care. It feels so good not to be a target of such treatment, you may even join in on the dogpile.
Yes, some may say that what they see as a problem will be solved with registration. But one would do well to consider the Law of Unintended Consequences. Beforehand.
anonymous – at 10:54
If you have paid a little more attention, you will notice that my remark was not addressed towards you or any other certain individuals, but the whole bunch of posts prior to that.
If you find it ‘irksome’ when a moderator tries to lower the temperature around a discussion and make it civil, then you may need to consider how much your own attitude might also be contributing to the fire.
BTW did you also read my post at 21:03?
No one is giving anyone a license for anything. You are making it bigger than it is. Just quit this topic and move on.
thanks TomDVM.
_Lots_ of dead pigs.There is some info here:
http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9923
including pig-prices but meanwhile nobody seems to think
it’s H5N1, so the discussion is about Chinese secrecy.
Well, that’s nothing new…
at 10:54 --- I don[t see anon_22 “jumping on certain individuals” here. Anon_22′s comment stated, in a GENERAL statement: “Can we cool the remarks on personalities please?” So it’s obvious you’re feeling threatened by it. (Oh, sorry…hard, biting humor there)
And if you were to read the entire converstaion that your quotes came from, you would not have to do as the MSM do and take things so far out of context that it only makes sense in your mind. There were other parts to each of those conversations that led to those comments. If you can’t stand that fact that this is a community and not some backroom bunker plotting to take over the world, then you might be able to get along better. As it is, as far as I’m concerned you, at 10:54, should just move along to your other flu bird and leave this community alone.
If you continue to act like the troll you’ve become in the past few months, then you’ll be treated as such…
Flu Bird?!? Flu Board…my eyes got crossed….
anyone can email; me at demfromct @ earthlink.net.
if it’s a gigantic file, use http://www.mailbigfile.com/
Let me say this one more time.
This forum is for the civil discussion of topics related to pandemic flu. We would prefer that people pick a handle or pseudonym for ease of discussion. It will be required when we move to a different platform.
In the meantime, we tolerate and accept those who prefer not to do that at the current moment. But let me also point out that this does create problems for others who are trying to follow the discussion so if you prefer to post as ‘anonymous’ you may encounter the frustrations of others directed at the issue, and at other ‘anonymouses’ who may not be you.
Seeing as nobody can tell whether you are the same as the last ‘anonymous’ who had been driving people up the wall last week, you may find yourself the subject of sometimes unwelcome discussions.
We ask everyone to be civil to each other. Irrespective of whether you are posting under a pseudonym, your real name, or as ‘anonymous’.
DemfromCT,
Did you receive the email I sent last night? or were the attachments too large?
Should I resend?
AnnieB – at 04:43
“I think that it is unfair the BB gets 2 slices at the cake - ‘Closed - Bronco Bill’ scores really well /;-D”
This is SO funny I cracked up laughing and woke my slumbering dog! LOL
but anon_22, this whole thing very much showed again, that posters are
(ab-)using the handles for personal attacks which are only justified by
what they (mis)remember as historical (mis)behaviour of that handle in previous
threads. “You wrote something bad in thread xyz last month, so you must
also be wrong here”- sort-of-thinking. I strongly assume that none of
the anonymouses which BB were attacking recently was really the anonymouse
which he wanted to address, and without that historical experience
BB would likely have responded completely differently.
You’re not primarily searching for scientic truth here but for normal social
“well-“-behaviour just as in normal non-science forums.
You could as well give up on the connection with the (scientific) wiki-part then
and start an independent forum with suitable forum-software.
anonymous – at 11:46
Read my post at 11:09.
The pros and cons of registration has been debated and decided a long time ago. The decision has been made. It will not be re-opened for debate unless and until such time as the mods choose to announce a different decision.
anonymous – at 11:46
Oh, just put a sock in it, will ya?!?
now that’s really professional
You aren’t going to change anyonehere by all this complaining. You don’t like it, then go start your own board.
Now back to our regularly scheduled discussin.
at 11:46 --- Never assume. You make an ass] [-of-] [u] [-and-] ]me. You have no idea who I was addressing, and since you all have the same name, neither do I.
I had been using my same handle for quite some time, then another “Sarah” came on board with very different opinions from mine… so I added an “S” to my handle. I would go back to my original handle, which was “RuralMD” but there was some controversy about folks adding professional designations to their handles, so I went to “Sarah.” It’s hard to decide which to use!
SarahS,
Thank you for being flexible. Whatever name you choose works fine as long as it distinguishes yourself from others and you stick to it. The problem with 2 different people with the same name shows another benefit to registration.
Let me thank everyone for their patience. This IS being worked on. Nothing in life ever works as fast as we would like.
it’s not about registration. Registration won’t change anything.
Anonymouses would just have to re-register frequently.
It’s about posting ethics and spread of (mod’s-,American-)
view of behaviour,culture and ethics.
They are not commercial, but they occasionally abuse moderation power
to predominantly spread their views. Not so much yet, but still a bit mendacious.
Please, I don’t want to say that I’m uncontent with moderators or moderation
here as compared with other boards. But moderator-views should be
subject to discussion just as other people’s views
SarahS, but beware from contributing explicite opinions when you
want to keep that handle ! There is always the danger that someone
will disagree, will feel offended and will be trying to revenge.
anonymous – at 12:32
SarahS, but beware from contributing explicite opinions when you want to keep that handle ! There is always the danger that someone will disagree, will feel offended and will be trying to revenge.
Wow, that kind of sounds like a threat.
anon-22 at 11:02 -
anonymous – at 10:54 If you have paid a little more attention, you will notice that my remark was not addressed towards you or any other certain individuals, but the whole bunch of posts prior to that.
I never said your remark was addressed towards a particular individual. My point is that you do not seem to make such remarks when certain other individuals, e.g., Bronco Bill, make really outrageous remarks, two of which I have already quoted.
anon 22 - If you find it ‘irksome’ when a moderator tries to lower the temperature around a discussion and make it civil, then you may need to consider how much your own attitude might also be contributing to the fire.
I consider the inconsistency of the moderators efforts to “lower the temperature around a discussion and make it civil.” (See referenced prior quotes.) BTW did you also read my post at 21:03?
anon 22 No one is giving anyone a license for anything. You are making it bigger than it is. Just quit this topic and move on.
The license comment was an allusion to Ange D’s comment at 21:46: And,BB’s “hip,biting humor” is….[s]arcastic at times,because he doesn’t suffer fools lightly. So obviously some are willing to give his biting “humor” a pass.
You can quit this topic, ignore it, whatever. As the saying goes, it takes two to tango. And I should think you would want me to move on since some of my criticism is directed at you. You were very active in the previous chapter to which I’ve referred, and you said nothing to Bronco Bill. I consider that highly hypocritical.
And then there’s this, from Bronco Bill at 11:04 - As it is, as far as I’m concerned you, at 10:54, should just move along to your other flu bird and leave this community alone.
This remark goes unchallenged by any of the mods, ironically even the one posted the following:
We ask everyone to be civil to each other. Irrespective of whether you are posting under a pseudonym, your real name, or as ‘anonymous’.
And with the following:
‘’Jefiner – at 11:58 anonymous – at 11:46 Oh, just put a sock in it, will ya?!? now that’s really professional You aren’t going to change anyonehere by all this complaining. You don’t like it, then go start your own board. Now back to our regularly scheduled discussin. We ask everyone to be civil to each other. Irrespective of whether you are posting under a pseudonym, your real name, or as ‘anonymous’.
I accidentally hit “post” before I finished writing my comment.
The last two paragraphs should have read:
And with the following:
‘’Jefiner – at 11:58 anonymous – at 11:46 Oh, just put a sock in it, will ya?!? now that’s really professional You aren’t going to change anyonehere by all this complaining. You don’t like it, then go start your own board.’‘
I would say we have a budding moderator here.
anonymous – at 12:41 I would say we have a budding moderator here.
Heh. Don’t think so. Troll chasing is a sport for me; moderating is hard work and no fun at all.
Bronco Bill,
Allow me to be even more blunt. You want to label me as a troll because I disagree with you, because I strongly argue an opposing view? I know you’re a BMOC around here, but I think you’re nothing but a bully. And I would really appreciate it if, as you have said you would do, you would just ignore anonymous posts.
In the interest of clarity, this has just been added to the Forum Rules.
14. We prefer that you pick a username while posting. Just put your unique choice in the ‘author’ box before you click ‘post’. This makes it easier for everyone else to follow the discussions coherently. If you choose to not do that, your post will appear under ‘anonymous’. While we have no objection to that and your remarks are equally welcome, just be aware that this does create problems for others and you may encounter the frustrations of others directed at the issue, and at other ‘anonymouses’ who may not be you. We do also ask all other forum participants to be patient with this issue. Registration and the use of a username will be required when we move to a new software platform.
Jefiner – at 12:34 , think again.
How could it be a threat when it’s adressed against _any_ explicit
opinion without specifying which ?
And that posted by an anonymouse who apparantly dislikes
any sort of censorship here.
SarahS. I ran into the same problem at effect measure where I posted before here…and I was ambarassed by what the other Tom said…so I had seen Grace RN’s name and decided to use Tom DVM.
It all comes down to content…does it matter that colleagues know that Grace is a nurse or gina is a nurse or that I am a veterinarian. Yes, I think it does.
I actually would like to know the particular expertise of the person posting…it doesn’t change how I recieve things because I assume you like me have met a lot of intellectually compromised persons with big titles.
I treat everyone as an equal colleague but I still think it helps that you know that I am a veteriarian…
…and gs, the same goes for you…being anonymous is not an advantage when it comes to flu wiki…I don’t think.
at 12:48 --- I label you a troll because you have nothing constructive to say here. Every time you post on this thread, it’s a complaint about some other poster whom you disagree with, whether it be their posting “style” or what they have to say.
The only opposing view you’ve shown here is that which is in disagreement with someone’s personality (mine). You’ve had nothing to say about influenza, you haven’t asked a question, only stated an inflammatory opinion. Given your obviously much higher education, and your debate abilities, you should expect to be flamed every time you post. If someone argues with you, you dissect their post in order to prove how superior you are.
Again, I label you a troll because you incite arguments that have nothing to do with what this board is meant for. I will ignore anonymous posts unless they are directed at me or I am mentioned in the third person…then, I will answer.
Tom DVM - at 13:08 - I thought I would let you know my particular “expertise”. No college education, I am a homemaker, aka: grounds keeper (just scraped the underside of my mower), financial mgr. (bills got paid yesterday), chef (Coq au vin for dinner tonight), sanitary engineer (if I didn’t empty the garbage, no one else in this house would), psychologist (2 young adult children), and I saved the best for last: news tracker for Wiki! :-)
Commonground. Exactly!! /:0)
Tom DVM, if we find a house next week in NH, I will be moving……2 states away. If I pack up my preps, 2 recliners (got to bring the husband…..), computer, phone and some coffee….I can leave the rest behind…..including the lawnmower! I also won’t be able to track my news articles for a while…..
at 12:48 --- troll or not, forget about BB, this leads to nothing. He’s not capable of running a reasonable argument, addressing the points, keeping the subject-issue etc. BB, nevermind, keep on here, you’re appreciated. Just don’t run into arguments so much please, when you’re so sensitive.
Commonground. I appreciate your comments and your gentle reminders about prepping.
About the rest…yes…things are almost back to normal around here!!
I seldom post but whenever I do, I stay anonymus because I am paranoid.
at 13:38 --- ROTFLMAO!!! You crack me up!!!
I am the anonymous at 13:51, not the one at 13:38, sorry for the confusion.
BB at 13:24 -
at 12:48 --- I label you a troll because you have nothing constructive to say here.
You don’t view it as constructive because, as I (and others) perceive it and have expressed it, I am critical of your treatment of posters with whom you disagree.
And this: Given your obviously much higher education, and your debate abilities, you should expect to be flamed every time you post. If someone argues with you, you dissect their post in order to prove how superior you are.
Well, I guess I’ll take the first sentence as a compliment since, formal-educationwise, I have earned but an associate’s degree. In nursing. I absolutely do not consider myself superior to others. I know I’m intelligent (not that intelligence is the only thing or even the most important thing in life), but so are many others who post here, some so vastly superior in intelligence I can only marvel.
As far as “arguments that have nothing to do with what this board is meant for,” that is opinion, not fact, and not even an opinion consistent with your own behavior of engaging in discussion, debate, argument, whatever, of issues not directly related to bird flu.
thank you anon at 13:38. You’re right.
As my dear old mom (a surgical RN)used to say, “RN=registered nut”--and everything I ever learned worthwhile in healthcare I learned from LPN’s.
Can someone tell me how this debate/discourse/rant/meltdown has anything to do with asking questions of the mods?
If ya can’t stuff a sock in it, then take it out back on a different thread.
Tom at 13:41 - About the rest…yes…things are almost back to normal around here!!
You’re really something else. (In a good way.)
Now, to the exercise bike (although I have figured a way to wedge my laptop between the handlebars).
Jefiner
“Can someone tell me how this debate/discourse/rant/meltdown has anything to do with asking questions of the mods?”
No, it doesn’t. Most of it is just mudslinging, and I don’t even know who is slinging what at whom. Although pogge can.
He’s the only one who sees the IP addresses and knows who’s who.
Pogge the All Powerful.
LOL
Jefiner,
Sorry, can’t help you locate your sock drawer. Keep looking.
anonymous – at 14:13
Well, while I’m at it, I will keep an eye out for your brain.
at 14:13 --- And your true colors show, with your “hip, biting hard” humor that you so despise.
If any anonymous’ want to take a look at the HELP WANTED in the news thread, you might want to turn your negative energy into something postive…just a thought. Have a good day……..
I have just relogged on.good evening Jefiner Best wishes I will be posting as BEATRICE ELIZABETH IN UK in future formerly Anon in uk
Howdy, Bea! (that’s an affectionate nickname in these parts). Good to see you here.
what is the discussion.Can you give me a clue.
Spam alert: Increased Cytokine Production in H 5 N 1 Patients. Maybe the file needs to be renamed. It is already closed.
Commonground at 14:33 -
If any anonymous’ want to take a look at the HELP WANTED in the news thread, you might want to turn your negative energy into something postive…just a thought. Have a good day……..
Expressing an opinion that runs contrary to the mainstream might be confused with “negative energy.” However, there is a big difference between “negative” and “contrary.” What is sometimes perceived as negative is often, more accurately, contrary, springing from the desire to correct and improve. Obviously, we can disagree on what constitutes something in need of correction and improvement, but nonetheless, the contrarian view often derives from a positive impulse.
In a January, 2006 Flu Wiki opinion piece in which psychologist Michael Donnelly analyzes and discusses the dynamics (and pitfalls) of internet discussion groups in general and the Flu Wiki forum in particular, one of the many interesting things he says is this:
To my mind, the real danger…is that as certain people exert pressure to conform, these pressures might become overwhelming. If these pressures build up too much, then people who hold contrary views will either be cowed into conforming with the group, or they will just pack their bags and leave.
Over the many months (almost a year now) I’ve been following this forum, I have witnessed some of these pressures occurring. I think it has had an overall negative impact. I think this forum is important, and so I express my concern.
I don’t see so much pressure here, it’s still mostly free speech. Other than e.g. Flutrackers who (proudly?) anounced that it’s not free speech.
Is Melanie okay? I’ve missed her level head and her wit…
If she’s on a break since the others have returned, I hope it has been restful, but I’ll be glad when she’s back.
First to the mods
THANK YOU for the fluwikie.
That isn’t said enough.
Second, I think a lot of your moderation issues and workload would be solved with a move to something like Vbulletin on a leased machine in a data center.
I like the wiki portion, but the forum style for the forum SUCKS as compared to other flu board forums.
Registration won’t gain you a lot.
Having moderated forums in the past, it didn’t make much difference in handling the problem children, but it DID make threads easier to manage.
Ree – at 15:50 “Is Melanie okay? I’ve missed her level head and her wit…”
Melanie is on a break. She needs and deserves one. She has some things to attend to which I’ll leave her to share with y’all when she comes back. Thanks!
anon at 15:47,
Now I am not sure who Bird Guano is referring to here—
Having moderated forums in the past, it didn’t make much difference in handling the problem children, but it DID make threads easier to manage.
—but I think that referring to someone who holds a contrary view as a “problem child” would qualify as pressure. Of the type Michael Donnelly was referring to.
Bird Guano – at 16:07
You’re welcome. :-)
I like the wiki portion, but the forum style for the forum SUCKS as compared to other flu board forums.
I don’t know whether you were aroung then but a while back there was a series of long and fruitful discussions about the future format of this forum, there were lots of good inputs, pros and cons. One important issue was the balance between ease of finding information vs the spontaneity and creativity of this current style.
Dem can probably give a better summary of what was discussed better than I can, but just my 0.02. :-)
at 16:17 --- and to continue the paragraph which you pointed to:
Solomon Asch did the definitive studies in the 1950s and 60s on the factors that cause conformity to occur, and frankly, the activity I see on this board do not (at this point) reach the levels they need to to generate a cowed and conforming minority. That isn’t to say that some of those types of interactions aren’t happening. They are, and your treatment is testimony to that fact.
Why do you feel that BG was referring to contrarians as the “problem children”? Could it be just the opposite, that the problem children were actually the ones who are all agreeing with one another? Since we’re in the midst of debate about who constitutes “problem children”, could it be that those who are “yes men” are the problem children, those who agree with everything, no matter their true beliefs, because they don’t want to appear negative to the groupthink?
Anon@15:37
I believe that since the article you refered to the pressures to conform to a particular social style have increased. It is I believe a measure of how important the issues that this forum has as its stated goal are important to us all that some people bother to declare their concern with the dynamics of Fluwikie. I seldom post, and lately I read the Fluwikie less as it carries an ever increasing social content that is largely self refferential. I am interested to see if the next incarnation of fluwikie will compartmentalise the ebb and flow of Fluwikie. The encounters between people with different focuses will diminish and very likely some of the conflict but a certain richness that derives from these encounters will be lost. Fluwikie has given me much and I have little to give in return. What happens in my corner of the world is of so little interest to the majority of posters here, that is except for those buildings down the road with WHO written on them.
just my .05 here. Since i spend more time reading then posting. Registar awesome idea!! Changing format please no as it’s taking me awhile to learn how this site works. I’d even pay to be here. Who cares what DH would have to say…lol Question— how long before requiring to registartion starts??
AzNewBe – at 17:30
a few more weeks to months, but at some point what we’ll do is run this Forum and the new one in parallel. The social software that builds thriving communities continues to evolve as well.. Scoop and the derivatives such as soapblox are some examples. You can find them on the political blogs.
The idea is to be able to link to different comments, tag individual stories that regular posters could write for content searching, nest comments for easy reply, etc.
running them in parallel gets folks used to the new style.
DemFromCT, sounds like a great balance. Is there way that we can contribute to the cause?
Mike
Cookie Flusher – at 16:52 I found your post to be thoughtful and thought provoking at the same time. I am interested in finding out where there is pressure to “conform to to a particular social style”, though. I find it troubling that if someone declares concern about the dynamics about the fluwiki, that concern has generally gone hand in hand with 1. think like me and 2. if you don’t think like me, you shouuld banned. Free speech is a great thing but carries the responsibility of respecting the other person’s freedom of expression as well. I can think of at least two threads that blew up into a conflagration because of a poster’s demands of “think like me or else”.
I agree that there is the danger of becoming self referential, like living in an echo chamber where all we hear is the same thing over and over again; if you hear it enough, it is easy to perceive anything as the truth. That is why I think it is important to stay away from political commentary (read finger pointing) and keep my focus on a more global level.
And as I noted above, the mods are doing yeoman work here, and at times it sure does look like no fun at all.
Just my .02; got to go and feed the guests now.
CAMike – at 17:58 --- I found the address here in the first post (Melanie at 00:42)
Thanks, BB. I don’t understand how you have the time for all that you do (aren’t you moving soon?) but very much appreciate all of your efforts at keeping this site up and running.
Mike
I don’t understand how you have the time for all that you do (aren’t you moving soon?)
Heh…I check the computer, I wrap a wine glass, I check the computer, I wrap another wine glass, I check the computer, I wrap a water glass, and so on and so on… ;-) I get my excercise that way!! My computer’s in the room furthest from the kitchen…
And I need to get to VA soon…my wedding anniv. is at the end of this month, and my honey is there waiting for me!! :-))
Jefiner at 18:07 -
I find it troubling that if someone declares concern about the dynamics about the fluwiki, that concern has generally gone hand in hand with 1. think like me and 2. if you don’t think like me, you shouuld banned.
What I find troubling is when someone twists and/or misrepresents what someone else has said. While I have explained my thoughts and why I think them (just as you have done for yourself), I have never suggested that anyone be banned. Not once. This is not the first time you have twisted my words; it is the first time I am calling you on it.
BB,
Don’t wrap all the wine glasses yet. You gotta leave them out till the last minute! :-)
anonymous – at 21:53
No one gets to call anyone on anything. This topic is closed. Please move on.
Same for everyone else.
We are DONE. Get over it.
If you find it hard to get over it, call it a night.
If you still can’t get over it tomorrow, grow a thicker skin.
Thank you ALL.
closed and continued here