Continued from here.
Now most schools are out for the summer, any pandemic plans being worked on, most likely will be put aside or not done. This would not be in place then when school begins again.
We can always keep asking -the “emergency” groups may still be meeting monthly or something.
Usually unless a teacher training session or other school needed function, most of the teachers are off during the summer out here in Nye County. When they start school again in late August, most are concerned with the up and coming studies and new students, etc, getting ready for the school year and what not. I fear that the avian flu, will be rather low on the totem pole unless schools have already started or already have the information in place. As far as out here in Nye County, I do not believe anything along that line has even started.
Probably upper level school dept/health/emergency people have been making pandemic plans -they just aren’t sharing them with the teachers nor students’ parents, which probably means the “plans” leave a lot to be desired and won’t do much for an unprepared population. (Making the school an “Emergency Dispensing Site” is not much of an accomplishment, even on paper.) Transparency would help officials’ credibility, and the schools could be being used to educate and prepare the populace, if officials could face some public adjustment reactions.
We need students and teachers and staff around for after a pandemic more than we need to keep schools open until pandemic cases are in a district. Using schools as places to care for unaccompanied (uninfected) minors, would work better than using them for flu care hospices, far as I can see. Hope I’m wrong, but the strategy here may still involve no public education campaigns until pandemic has started, and then just telling people what they have to do. (While the “plans” are overwhelmed in a fortnight??) I do think a few school staff and student families have heard enough in the news that they are prepping, secretly, but way too few.
I occationally work for a school district on the handicap and preschool buses, and the bus transporation department have not been involved, if there were planning (which I doubt in Nye County), and every year, when the normal flu hits, the bus aids and drivers, most end up getting ill also. Being on a busload of children during flu season is like walking thru a minefield and most will become ill. Happens every year. Personnally I have given the transporation department administrator information what schools are doing across the country, and it all seems to fall on deaf ears. I would hope that IF AND WHEN A PANDEMIC begins overseas, that the President of the United States has the backbone enough to close all schools at every level,,,,,but we know how that goes.
Parents of school age children need to do their own planning. School districts can plan all they want to but parents are the ones that are ultimately responsible for the welfare of their own children.
Besides … the best laid plans …
The school districts may make plans that wind up not working, or not working long term. The parents need to be prepared for this eventuality and not assume someone else will take responsibility for their child’s needs.
How can you compare a “school year” to a “life”. I would hope my daughter would pull her children out of school at the first hint of H5N1 in the vicinity and post the pre-prepared “Treating Avian Flu Patients on this Property” sign and see how many school district officials come knocking on the door.
I am an elementary school teacher. (Well, at-home mom right now.) It is only as I look at the difficult situation schools are in in planning for a possible pandemic that I am beginning to fully comprehend the enormity of the problem.
When it was just thinking about heath care/hospitals/power plants, I was able to just say, “I’ll just keep my kids home and hide out for 6 weeks to 3 months and live off rice n beans and then it’ll be all over….”
And stay-at-home parents do have that option. If my kids were school-aged right now and I forsaw ANY difficulties from the schools in my deciding to remove my kids from their schools when they choose to remain open, why, I’dd sign them up for homeschooling right then and there — but —
I do realize many parents do not have that option. (Nor do many parents have the option of just removing their kids from daycares — is anyone even talking about closing daycares? Are daycares making plans to close ins a pandemic?)
Doesn’t everything depend on how severe a pandemic actually is? And in how long we are talking about closing for?
Sure, if a pandemic occurs and there is a very high CFR, it will be a no brainer to close schools, but what if the pandemic is more mild, with a higher CFR than regular flu, but nowhere near as bad as the worst case scenarios?
It is possible to just shut down schools for 6 weeks — but for 3 months? 6 months? A year and a half, until a effective vaccine is distributed? How long? Until there is ABSOLUTELY no POSSIBLITY of flu anywhere in town? And when do you close? Schools get a lot of flack where I live for closing when there is foul weather — parents rely on the schools for child care and many of them (especially the low income parents) suffer financially when they have to miss work for lack of child care. They don’t just lose a day’s pay, they lose their jobs.
Of course if the choice is, exposure to illness that will likely result in cartain death, or close schools for 6 weeks, parents will understand and will deal. But what if the flu isn’t that severe? And how does a school (or municipality) decide at what moment to close the schools, knowing that once you have closed, you will probably be closed until the pandemic is over — but you don’t know how long that will be?
Anyhow, what I think is needed is a two part plan — one allowing for parents who have the means to do so, to remove their children whenever they do not feel it is safe for them to be in school, with no legal repercussions; while trying to maintain school for as long as is possible for those who need a supervised place to be, while trying to reduce the chances of infection at school as much as is humanely possible.
Hmmmm… wonder why those school plans are not in place already, seems like an easy enough job…. (-: Actually, I do believe that administrators are working on these plans this summer — schools were probably the last to be told anything…..
Here’s a link to an NPR story from earlier this month on schools and bird flu. Some schools close when they have a locally severe flu epidemic, but that has never happened where I live. The link is pretty good, Claudio Sanchez, NRP’s education guy, is the reporter.
Melanie - thanks for the link. I’m a NPR juunkie but I missed that story. Public schools in our area have never closed for the flu, strep or pukies (and we had bad rounds of all three this year) BUT the private schools do. Private schools are not obligated to meet the state’s required 180 days of school attendance. I think anything positive happening regarding schools will literally happen town by town - some school board with aenough ba&&s to pull the trigger. Unfortunately, haven’t encoutnered too many school boards with ba&&s. State run agencies will be too slow to pull the trigger. Personally, I could care less if my kids are 20 when they graduate from high school. They’ll be alive.
Anyway, I was reading some info from a PA town in 1918. Schools were the last things to get closed - they shut down churches, meetings, etc. at least three weeks before they closed the schools. In the NPR story they talked more about universities. I went to undergrad and grad at top schools in the south that both had hospitals attached to them. Being the south, if there was 1/2 an inch of snow the whole state shut down - except our school! The univ. officials were pretty blunt -they said if they shut down campus the hospital workers wouldn’t show up for work. What will happen if H2H and a university really does have to shut down (1/2 an inch of snow won’t last long, pandemic will last weeks). Many major hospitals are univ. affiliated. In some states they are the biggest, best hospitals in the state. They are in very tough position.
Watch out for rotten math and programming. Earlier in the year there was a “computer model” that showed NO reduction in pandemic flu spread with closure of schools— I suspect the modeler was a parent of a couple of wild ones and could not countenance an extended stay at home with the munchkins. When it comes to the schools and day cares I suspect there will be lots of parents in denial about the lethality or spread of any illness.
I’ve spoken to our diocese office re: School Closure in event of Pandemic. There plan (as of fall 2005) was to wait until the closure message came from the local County Officals for the public schools.
My wife and I have discussed this already - we will pull our child from school when pandemic flu cases occur in our city - I suspect that the schools will wait weeks or months to close. My opinion is there will be a lot of foot dragging.
Our child has already been through pneumonia that was picked up after 2 other students in the class had it. I think the school classroom is one of the best petri dishes ever designed (kid interaction in the classroom, bathroom, sharing lunches, hugging each other, licking pencils, etc….).
We’ll figure out how to do online homeschooling …
annonx2: “I think the school classroom is one of the best petri dishes ever designed”
I couldn’t agree more. I had pink eye twice this past school year…a gift from the little darlings in my classroom. Some of our parents are so concerned about perfect attendance, that when their child is sick---they feed them a tylenol and send them on the merry way..in hopes that the fever will subside long enough to not be recognized. I shake my head in disbelief at parents sending their (knowingly) sick kiddos to school, with no concern of it spreading to others.
As far as schools closing, our Health Dept. can recommend, but schools don’t always shut down…particularly during the heart of any particular sports season. Because of flu this last year, the Health Dept. suggested closing a particular district. The story that went around is that it would cause too much confusion with the basketball schedule.
I have given avian flu/pandemic information to our superintendent and even asked to attend our state training, but nothing ever came of any of my efforts. “The Health Dept. would oversee it.” We did, however, agree that we might have to find ways to teach students outside of the classroom.
Prepping quietly here in Kansas.
April 2006 BBC article mentions “The virus is also expected to spread rapidly in schools, where infection rates of 90% are envisaged.”
In my Florida high school, mid level management is working on a plan. That plan will be submitted to the superintendent in the event of an outbreak.
We have no problem closing schools for the safety of our children. We have done it many times in the past due to hurricanes. Our difficulty lies in the fact that unlike a hurricane, this pandemic may very well be on us before we know it has arrived. We will close our schools in the event of an outbreak. Unfortunately, we may be already infected when we close our doors.
I think another thing to be considered is lack of funding. Our school district had 2 million dollars to build a football field, then claimed a shortage of funds. This year they laid off 25 teachers, numerous secretaries and office staff. The worst was firing the janitors. Now if the children get sick, the teachers must stop and clean it up. With the reduction of teachers class size will be increased. I expect (at the high school level)for it to go from 35–40, up to 50–55. Before there wasn’t enough desks, next year I fully expect some kids to be standing up all hour. This will put the kids in even closer proximity to each other. My son sometimes comes home at lunch, just to use our bathroom, he says theirs is so filthy. Believe it or not I live in one of the richest towns in our state. I have seen what I believe to have been the norvo virus go through my son’s elementary school. Two classes had eighty percent abstences, including teachers. The school didn’t close. I watched a local made show on the bird flu, from our health dept. It said a pandemic brochure would be sent home with every student, two weeks ago. Never happened, the brochure didn’t get passed out. I do not have any faith in our school system.
In many states, the school receives state funding for each student in attendance on any given day. If too many students are absent, the school cannot afford to stay open. (At least that’s what I’ve heard) If too many teachers are sick, our district will never be able to get enough substitutes for classrooms. I suspect if we really do have a pandemic, they will close the schools.
Ruth - what you say about funding is absolutely true in most if not all states, thanks to the lack of federal funding for education and “No Child Left Behind.” Even some of the districts in “better off” towns can not afford to loose a dime of state funding, let alone poorer districts. I think they will close schools at some point, but long after the kids and staff have started dropping like flies from fever.
University of Central Florida is running a mock pandemic scenario. They are going to give kids candy instead of vaccines for the mock pandemic. It will take place in august when kids are back. University of Florida, FAU and FSU are also involved. They have plans at the moment to have “sick dorms”. They plan on keeping kids on campus as does the North Carolina schools in their pandemic proposals.
re: University of Central Florida is running a mock pandemic scenario. They are going to give kids candy instead of vaccines … ???
o the BIG issue is that a pandemic vaccine will NOT BE AVAILABLE for 6 months + after the start of a pandemic.
And then only in very limited quantities, volume mfg may take much longer (based on current vaccine funding, production methodologies). Reality Check - Why practice vaccine distribution??
o Why not practice hygiene? - N95 Mask fitting, disposable glove usage protocol, hand cleanser, bleach based disinfecting? Because it takes too much effort, no one will really pay attention as the threat is viewed as far away in the future .. It’s not the easy “take a pill/get a shot” solution … however it may be the best approach until sufficient vaccine is available.
o I believe we (as individuals) need to plan for our own family’s health and safety and not wait for “The Powers That Be” to make decisions for us.
o I will err on the side of caution, and pull my child from school early.
I am not encouraged by this at all. I live half a mile from the University in question. They are horrible neighbors. Horrible. I am not surprised that they would miss the point of preparing a plan. It concerns me that they are building dorms at an enormously fast rate and that they would plan on keeping tens of thousands of students there with only two grocery stores within a mile. College kids these days can’t plan ahead and carry a condom or designate a driver, I’m suppose to trust that they’ll wear a mask and have enough food to eat? Or worse yet, trust UCF (You Can’t Finish) to take care of them without them finding their way into my neighborhood? We’ve got way too many rentals in here now, and the “Frat houses” are a pain to homeowners as it is. The UCF office that is suppose to help with the problems they create doesn’t do anything as it is and it involves simple things like drugs, underage drinking, parking in neighbors yards, etc. Gee, I can’t wait until they quarantine! I think I need more shotgun shells.
LauraB: “Ruth - what you say about funding is absolutely true in most if not all states, thanks to the lack of federal funding for education and “No Child Left Behind.”
I just wanted to remind you that our Federal Constitution leaves Education up to the local level to fund. That includes State and local. It’s not the result of the “No Child Left Behind Act”. It’s not the result of budget cuts. The Federal Government has done more in the last fifteen years to fund initiatives with block grants than ever before.
I teach at a middle school and have inquired about our county plan for pandemic. I accidentally got the ear of someone who knew some people. According to this county commissioner the “plans” have been in place. But no one shares the plan. I am spending a lot of time this summer putting all my lesson plans online. It is my considered opinion that for a while we could use cable tv or radio and online activities to keep teaching. IT would be easy to have a talking head/teacher do 7th grade Geography at 9 a.m. Tuesday and Thursday. This won’t work for all as not all have internet but it will work for many. I hope to keep income coming in. Those that are healthy and work at their education will do the work, post it to the website or mail it in. DH is working on a UV-C light box that would disenfect papers for me. I will put all this in a plan and provide to my Principal at the appropriate time. Dinner ready, DH mad. Write more later.
Orlando - will come and teach at our school? It’s great that you are doing all of that. I can almost guarentee not many teachers are unless told to do so by their boards/principals. I have many friends who are teachers. They are not even prepping their own families let alone lesson plans if TSHTF. Our state has seen less and less money from the feds. Maybe that’s not true where you are but it is here. And because of all that No Child Behind requires (testing, etc.) there is less money for other things. Anyway, I don’t want to turn it into that kind of debate. The point of the thread is what will schools do? We’re actually putting out kids in private school next year, for many reasons, but the weeks and weeks spent teaching the kids how to take tests rather than learning anything else helped seal the deal for me. Imagine my pleasant surprise when I found out the teachers at the new school have been told to prepare on-line lesson plans. I’m glad that they won’t feel the pressure to keep the doors open to maintain attendance. We need more teachers like you - organized and thinking ahead.
BTW - does your town have local access channels? That was another idea tossed around on another thread for teaching kids. Not everyone has pPC’s (or high-speed access) but almost everyone has cable TV.
Maybe this has been asked….
If schools close, will teachers still be paid? Just the ones that are willing to do a TV or internet teaching gig? Can one teacher teach the entire county? The others just help grade the papers? $$$$$ makes the world go ‘round. Unemployed teachers, just one more thing to worry about.
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On the fence but hopeful – at 22:20
Check with your state on how teachers are paid. Here in Florida I believe they are quasi-contract. They have so many sick days but other than that they are paid … not for how many hours they work, but on their pay scale and contract.
My question is how will corporations, states, counites, etc. … that utilize direct-deposit for contract employees know that someone hasn’t died or isn’t ill and used up their sick leave? Will there be daily call-in requirements for those working from home?
So mnay questions, so few answers.
I wish more teachers were thinking about it. We get paid to think, right? Ha. We do have community access channels. All Core classes now having “pacing guides”, which means we are told what to teach and when. Math has it down to a day, which is a joke as not all kids get it on the first pass. Social Studies is by a 9 week period now. We can teach it in any order in the 9 weeks it’s assigned. I think this is a good thing.
If all students should be studying math-type stuff A on Monday (I’m not a “math person”) or European Geography this nine weeks all over the county then a talking head could do the lesson on TV or radio (?) and the rest of us could act as facilitators answering questions over the phone, grading papers that can be dropped off or mailed (disenfected), or posted to the internet. I can tell you that it’s possible, and yes, full of challenges…but it would also help facilitate the parents maintain some type of structure to their day if they still have “school”.
Maybe we could turn this generation around and into another “Greatest Generation” because they still got educated during an unprecedented disaster. It won’t work for all, trust me. Some don’t want their kids educated just occupied and they’ll use this as an excuse. But until a kid gets sick, we lose power, or there’s no mail…or just too dangerous to even drop papers into the box it would work and I for one would welcome the chance to keep doing something constructive. Education happened for hundreds of years in less advanced schools than we have now and gee it WORKED! You just have to take responsibility and work at it. Sorry, passionate about it. Let me know of other ideas.
Even I can’t get answers from the district though.
Have you all taken a look at the Contra Costa school district’s pandemic plan? It’s on the main wiki page - on the right. I am terrible at links so I won’t attempt it. Anyway, it’s semi-fluffy, but the fact that they even HAVE a plan impressed me. A group of people actually sat down and put some effort into it. There are pre-written letters for outbreaks, closing, re-openings, etc. I know for a fact our district has done nothing to plan for possible pandemic (firends on the board who also are not prepping). Like most of my state (I never see anyone doing preps) they have their heads burried in the sand. I knew there was a reason I loved living in the Bay Area. Time to move back - CT sucks.
Wiki PTB - is the Contra Costa plan posted on other wiki indices as well? It would be a good place for a superintendent, principal, etc. to start in developing their own plans.
LauraB, I’ll take a look at the pandemic plan you mentioned. In Florida an “alternate certification” teacher is on probation for 3 years. That means I have a B.A. that is not from a school of Education and changed careers. I was a defense contractor with a background in technology. I have to take five special class and pass three state tests. I am taking my last class now, and have two test left to do in the next year. Until then, when I am offered “continual contract”, I can’t afford to make any waves, bring any controversy, or negative attention to myself, my school, and especially my Principal. So I really am in a bad place as I can’t go to him and say “Hey, have a plan?” I can just plan on my own and hope it fits in.
If this thing happens in the next ten months, and we lost a lot of kids it’s very probable that I won’t have a job. If you don’t have the students to teach, you don’t need teachers. I hadn’t thought of that until now. The decision to offer me CC can be made one day over the halfway point in my third year…this January. Hopefully this thing will hold of until then when they can’t rescind their offer. Boy, is that selfish or what? I’m the only breadwinner and am not near prepped yet. Wish I could win the lottery!
In my school district, teachers were paid a monthly salary which didn’t get reduced if school was closed for, say 8 days during an ice storm. However we were required to make up those teaching days — one year we did it by staying an extra 30 minutes each day for several weeks and coming in on Saturdsya, other times we made up the lost days by actually adding days at the end of June.
The length of time of the school closure (2 weeks? 6 weeks? 3 months?+) would be a huge factor in whether teachers got paid while schoosl were closed — and whether they could make up the lost time. Insturction over Cable/internet is an intriguing idea — for kids who are literatem anyhow….
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