previous discussion here
original post on first thread
01 March 2006
MaMa – at 13:48
The purpose of this thread is to discuss and explore possible treatments that may be useful in the treatment of pandemic influenza.
Tamiflu is not available to most of us and I for one would like to find out more about what could be used instead. Everyone needs to make their own choices about what they might or might not use- I think it’s useful to have a range of options in one place.
Suggestion of options are welcome whether or not they have been proven with double-blind clinical trials- although any research, supporting documentation, etc. that is available should be included. If you have a particular area of expertise please state this in your first post.
Here is something that helped in 1918. Gelsemium came out on top but was not the only one. If the h5n1 pandemic strain symptoms are similar to 1918, the same remedies will be useful.
If you go to the hospital with influenza they will use anti-virals primarily. We will need to do the same. Interfering with the virus seems to me to be the route that deserves more human studies. I have no medical background. I have been doing research (PubMed, Natural Standard, Cochrane, International Pharmaceutical Abstracts) for months for anti-influenza (or anti-viral influenza) supplements that may be available without a prescription. With a prescription the following things help ambroxol (mucolytic/anti-influenza), augmentin (antibiotic, recommended treatment by WHO), erythromycin (anti-biotic/anti-influenza, recommended treatment by WHO), stachyflin (anti-biotic/anti-influenza).
Supplements that I see with good evidence of specific anti-viral activity against influenza (slowing attachment, reproduction, or spread) include andrographis, baikal scullcap (scutellaria baicalensis), black elderberry, forsythia, garlic, glycyrrhizin (licorice, not candy), green tea, lonicera, mullein, N-Acetylcysteine (NAC), quercetin, polygonium cuspidatum (giant knotweed/resveratrol), and propolis. There are several items with less documentation which simply means studies have not been done. I would stick with those with the most documented proof. Both elderberry (in SHS-174, PubMed ID: 7905240 ) and mullein (PubMed ID: 11054856) have been used synergistically with Amantadine to potentiate the antiviral efficacy. I am curious about geranium sanguineum but there is not much documentation about its use in humans.
Unfortunately several items have blood thinning properties, so taking several could be problematic. These are andrographis, garlic, green tea, propolis, and resveratrol. The risks and benefits need to be considered. One idea would be to take any of the non-blood thinning herbs 4x per day(?) and alternate between the 5 that thin blood once per day.
I have seen references to St John’s Wort (hypercin) but it may need light to be an effective anti-viral (there is not much light inside the respiratory system). Need more data.
Normally existing prescription medicines can support the needs of the public. In the event of a pandemic there will not be enough (we all know that).
I would like to emphasize that treating the cytokine storm is nearly impossible for the professionals. Holy Basil, Horse Chestnut seed, Quecertin, and Rosemary have been shown to reduce capillary permeability. This may help with respect to ARDS (I am no doctor). I think the benefits of simvistatin are based on the same action but some people are very hesitant to take statins due to side effects.
Other things for respiratory support include chamomile, wild cherry bark, lungwort?, marshmallow root, pectin, peppermint, slippery elm. Of course NAC, fish oil and borage oil.
Homeopathic remedies have some but not a lot of supporting documentation. I have done research but have found only references to symptomatic treatments. Better to spend efforts stopping the virus than simply treating symptoms. That can be done with commonly available over the counter medicines.
I also asked an expert from International Journal of Clinical Aromatherapy and he said that he is not aware of any clinical evidence that any essential oil is effective againse influenza. I have seen eucalyptus, peppermint, mullein, thyme, and several others mentioned in some authoritative books but I prefer to see supporting documentation.
The flu is always somewhere. Could studies be done during flu season to evaluate the in-vivo efficacy of these supplements using common dosages? Here is a reference to see where seasonal influenza activity is currently reported in the world. http://www.who.int/csr/disease/influenza/update/en/
I am writing another letter to influenza research centers and phytotherapy (herbal) organizations). Maybe they can talk with one another about widely available treatment options while we wait for vaccine production.
Fredness-
I seem to recall a number of medical studies on essential oils documented in the books of
My library is currently packed, so I can’t take a look to confirm. The Frenchman, Valnet, practiced extensively for most of his later career with essential oils.
NS1 was impersonating as an anonymous Flu Polymerase protein for an anonymous thread. Now I’m caught.
I ran across several articles in the last year on Tumor Necrosis Factor (TNF)--(a major cytokine)--and its suppression via the use of various essential oils.
“Suppression of neutrophil accumulation in mice by cutaneous application of geranium essential oil.” _Journal of Inflammation_ 10 Feb. 2005 http://tinyurl.com/h3p9r
“Suppression of tumor necrosis-factor-alpha-induced neutrophil adherence responses by essential oils.” _Mediators of Inflammation_ 12(6): 323–28 Dec. 2003) http://tinyurl.com/jnxng
Both articles were free PDF files
Good catch!
I’ve researched these topics extensively, but don’t have my books right here at the moment.
Thanks for the references.
PDFs of each reference mentioned by Rose
geranium oil, to mice suppressed the cellular inflammation induced by curdlan dose-dependently, as monitored by the MPO activity of peritoneal cavity and skin. This suggests that essential oils using in aromatherapy massage may suppresses the inflammatory symptoms related with neutrophil accumulation and edema.’‘
In the first reference, the following essential oils were tested, many that we’ve mentioned here and in other threads.
I will be mixing varying combinations of these and several other oils for:
NS1 and other contributors - a 58 year old man probably should not use the term, “I’m blown away” by what I have been reading herein, but, I’m blown away!! Very, very interesting posted material. I’m on my way out right now and can’t spend the time that I’d like to give some consideration to writing more about my thoughts, feelings and questions, so…I’ll reserve some time in the near future for additional comments.
I do have time to say thank you.
mmmelody47
What’s so exciting . . . this is everyday stuff (tongue in cheek).
It’s pretty neat when you start seeing that the healing is all around you and all you have to do is reach a little.
What are you going to do with this new information?
“Homeopathic remedies have some but not a lot of supporting documentation. I have done research but have found only references to symptomatic treatments. Better to spend efforts stopping the virus than simply treating symptoms. That can be done with commonly available over the counter medicines.”
Why would OTC be better than homeopathy? Homeopathy cures, if the right remedy is chosen. OTC can only suppress. If there is a truly global outbreak, plenty of experienced homeopaths will have chimed in about what to take. (They already chimed in about 1918.)
I fully plan to take both herbal anti-virals and homeopathic remedies because there is no reason not to take both. Thanks for the analysis of the herbal options.
Calico,
You always have such good ideas.
Are you doing a rotation plan now to feed your immune system and cell-to-cell signalling systems?
Thanks, NS1. I plead guilty of not taking the best care of myself, at least not along the lines of what you have tried to hammer into us. However, with the help of my homeopath I do have a grasp of my “constitutional” homeopathic remedy which should be an additional help for my immune system.
I’m in generally good shape. I’m not especially susceptible to the flu - I only recall having it once, and it was probably the 1968 pandemic. So, it might take something like h5n1 to knock me off my feet again.
More than anything, I probably need to work on the quality of my exercise. Puttering around my garden only counts for so much.
Regarding the use of essential oils for fighting avian flu: One thing that I’ve done in the last year is purchase an Essential Air Aromatherapy Diffuser (by Leyden House) (just like it, I don’t have any financial relationships with the company) and I will be diffusing geranium bourbon, ravensara, hyssop decumbens among others in our sickroom. I have read that hyssop decumbens, in particular, is good with LOWER LUNG infections.
Some related articles: these are NOT academic journals, just web-published articles:
Baudoux, Dominique. _Antiviral and antimicrobial properties of essential oils._ http://tinyurl.com/om9k6
Cech ND, Misty Rae. _Essential oil antiviral properties._ http://tinyurl.com/kzt86
Keville, Kathi and Mindy Green. _Aromatherapy for the respiratory system._ http://tinyurl.com/j69on
diffusers: Essential Air http://tinyurl.com/fssvb AromaStone http://tinyurl.com/es4kf
FYI: a stinking rose — is Garlic, as we all know on Fluwiki it is a fabulous antiviral, and one of my favorite restaurants in the Bay area is The Stinking Rose (see link below) —great food.
Calico,
What are you growing?
Rose,
I’ve only been to the one in Beverly Hills. We eat garlic everyday and sometimes even take the Carlson supplements.
That nebuliser you listed looks like a nice model. I like what the author used as an introduction:
Do we want that air to be contaminated or pure?
bump
Rose,
Did you notice the particularly minute amount of Lemongrass Essential Oil necessary to suppress neutrophil activation by TNF-Alpha.
As you can see, it only takes a few drops in vitro.
Most of the other tested oils showed action just below or at .05%, again just drops.
Starts to make that Tom Yum Kha Thai soup sound like another great dual purpose food.
I need to correct myself. The correspondance I had with an aromatherapist was through www.aromamedical.com not International Journal of Clinical Aromatherapy. I would be interested in hearing from them about anything they know that has specific anti-influenza activities. Added a few things on the Aromatherapy page.
Thanks for sharing ideas and citations everyone.
NS1, the only thing different I’m growing for h5n1 is lots of garlic, in part because it is enough of a perennial I can hold it over. Calendula is a great first aid plant, and this year I have enough growing I think I’ll try harvesting the flowers, drying them, and then processing them for ointment. (I have enough mother tincture I don’t really need it, except for the practice I suppose.) Otherwise, it looks to be a banner year for tomatoes, Irish potatoes, sweet potatoes, sweet peppers and cucumbers. To the extent that optimism feeds the immune system, the best therapy I have ever found is working in my garden, at least when the garden is going well. :-) I have a very large perennial garden which is my reserve area for a larger vegetable garden if need be. In other words, beds already double dug and richly amended, standing by.
I love garlic and onions. My dad eats a raw onion every day. It was my job as kid to peel it, and put it on a special cutting board with small knife next to his plate. I can see him cutting off thick slices, salting them, and crunching into them with relish. Probably why I never saw my dad sick as a child.
Thanks for all the great information. I’m really enjoying this thread.
Calico,
What got you started on the gardening? Sounds like you are all organic? Are you also growing herbs or anything in the forest edge (shaded)?
Rose,
I was always offered onion and ketchup sandwiches as a child, so I too came to love the raw onion. The great thing is that now I see all the onion (allium) variety and can have some fun with the little guys like the shallots, etc.
Elderberry liquid and pills etc. products are available from Nature’s Way Vit. Company and have shown themselves to be effective against common colds and flu. Whether thye will have effect on N5 is anybody’s guess? I will definitely make sure I have these products in my med. kit.
Just posted a nice link to a study from Stanford on using tryptophan to reduce neuroinflammation on the Cytokinic Storm 3 thread
NS1,
Just saw your note on Lemongrass E.O.--yes, I have acquired several bottles (to diffuse) as I think it will help in a sick room. I quite like the smell even when nobody is ill.
Retroscreen Virology, a leading British medical research institute associated to Queen Mary College, University of London, announced that Sambucol (black elderberry) was at least 99% effective against the avian flu virus, H5N1, and in cell cultures significantly neutralized the infectivity of the virus. Jan 2006 http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?n=65394-razei-bar-sambucol-bird-flu
NS1, my garden is definitely organic. I’m a biologist and gardening has always been a passion. The flower genes came from mom and the vegetable genes from dad. Folks at work suck up to me 11 months of the year to be near the head of the line in August when I’m (usually) inundated with tomatoes looking for homes. I hate tree roots, so I stay as much in full sun as possible. It’s bad enough dealing with glacial cement, er, till. I don’t need root competition on top of it.
bumping for bill
Calico,
Is glacial cement mineral rich?
NS1, it was more a joke about the crummy soil I started with. Every year I ask Santa for a solar-powered jackhammer to loosen up this stuff, but I guess he can’t maneuver it down the chimney. It was a nutrient poor, highly compacted, poorly draining silty clay. All my garden beds were dug about 2 feet deep, all pebbles and rocks removed, and as much organic matter as I could work in. Walking over a garden bed is grounds for castration or worse.
But we seem to be getting rather off topic.
Calico,
Only a castrato appreciates emasculation.
Sounds like your hard work is producing some alternative treatments for your family.
Do you have a multi-stage composting system?
Years ago, we experimented with raised bed gardening. The first year our garden had about 2 inches of top soil on a heavy clay base. We dug the dirt from the ‘path’ and heaped it up on the ‘bed’ (about 2 feet wide), where we planted the vegetables. Then we bought a few bales of straw from a local farmer and filled the path with straw (this eliminated all hoeing) and the weeds were just plucked from around the vegetables. In the spring the whole garden was rototilled (this mixed the decomposed straw into the soil). We hired a local farmer to rototill the whole garden for us once a year (yes, this was a BIG garden). The third year, the farmer was amazed at the qualitly of the soil. We had beautiful loose very black top soil over a foot deep all over the garden.
PanicStricken
It goes to show you that you really do have to make your own soil.
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