Continued from here.
From Birdwatcher…
Its just all this stupid stuff . When we are all trying to prepare. I get so mad. Say something important . Don’t go against the good we are all trying to do. Everyone needs to wake up and prepare.
I totally agree. I use a cover for my own reasons. But hey, I’m just a well educated soccer mom and I think you all know it anyway. Take my comments with as much salt as you want. I do the same with others. However, the way some threads can turn from civilized discussions to 4th grade playground behavior is truly stunning. That hurts our credibility more than names or much else. Allow people to make their comments and debate them, not flame them. Don’t make it personal or political or religious. Think before you click…once you’ve said it you can’t take it back.
lauraB – at 06:58
All discussion board have that liability. We do better than most. ;-)
That’s especially true when one considers the diversity of opionion, nationalities, approaches, life experiences, etc.
The original port was about pseudonymnity and credibility. That remains a worthy topic of discussion, though as you can see from the original thread, I think content trumps psedonymnity.
A great deal of this debate is certainly natural. One may see a link to a story from chinaview and another story from bbc world service and we treat them with differing levels of credibility. When something was uttered and sounded more at fallacy than fact,(before the internet information super highway), my mother always said, “Consider the source”. She was a RN and did not jump to conclusions before she did the triage. Thanks, Mom.
Recently, I read that France had claimed themselves “BF Free”. I wondered how long before an outbreak would occur.
Things are very different today; Vietnam was the first war in the television age and we created “spin”. The possibility of a major pandemic in the information age has created “spinning”. (Read as whirling dervish)
From Samuel Clemens to Marilyn Monroe to Madonna and, golly gee, for that matter, who would think a guy named “Scooter” could be involved in any under-handed dealings?
The truth (which is a word I donnot think was mentioned here) may or may not set you free--- but Content will always matter.
L.B., we grow from play. Consider the rapid progress of Mozart throughout his 35 years (neotony). So called adult behavior really represents the bending of ones knees to normative models-as some have indicated, it’s the death of the creative child within. Grow up at your own risk. The greatest evils always come from bent knees. The greatest love from those which are not.
drw- A greater Art from primitivism. Maybe yes.
On the other hand-
Bow down to the one you serve, Your going to get what you deserve.
Who was that?
Oh, NIN. Nevermind.
Mozart was a genius, he also had awkward ways that irritated people. A lot of geniuses do. I don’t think that helped him in his professional life. I don’t think you can get more sophisticated than his Operas. Of course De La Ponte and Beumarchais as author and librettists gave it the sophistication, Mozart provided the gifts, but somehow in person he had no grace.
Perhaps he was an aspie?
Personally, I see a major difference between a discussion forum — like this — and other information arenas. Perhaps if I wanted to post my own scientific paper/research (not that I have any :-) ) on the Wiki, I should do it through other areas on the Wiki (or link to my paper, etc.) using my real name and credentials. Then I am posting bonafide research that I should stand behind and authenticate. A discussion forum is for — discussion, right? So I think it needs to wide open and free-wheeling (maintaining civility, of course. It seems like the in-depth research and information guides are being archived on other parts of the Wiki, anyway, so the forum is not meant to be a “long-term” storage device for information that really needs to be archived. With that in mind, I don’t have a problem with the use of pseudonyms in the discussion forum. (And, BTW, as my “handle” might indicate, I am in the library & information business).
InfoLady – at 14:22
Thanks! We’ve had some terrific help and support from the library sciences people, as well as some objections and concerns. Always interesting to see how that breaks out. ;-)
Wow Dem, way to go toe to toe with Mattison. I know that was awhile ago but…cool.
To my way of thinking the charms of the wiki are its wide diversity. There is no one wiki, it would fly off without the mods reigning it in. Everyone has their own idea. A dignified wiki, a practical wiki, a scientific wiki, a problem solving wiki. If the wiki weren’t quirky, I wouldn’t be here, if it didn’t interest me by its diversity I would read it a few times and do something else, certainly not flu oriented. I have done as much as I will do as far as preparedness, but I still read a lot of the threads that interest me. Some will prepare completly and will be in the cat bird seat if it does become pandemic.You take what you want out of the wiki or what you think you need.
DemFromCT — Well, I guess I have to go check that guy’s library credentials as well, eh? :-) There are a wide range of opinions on things in library land, just as everywhere. Some library and info. professionals don’t believe anything unless they can find 5 sources to back it up, others are a bit more flexible.
I tend to think a lot of “information” is just data — it takes the reader/researcher’s mind and discernment to convert it into real, usable info. (or discard it, as the case may be). Data in itself is not dangerous, regardless of the source — it is how it is used (or not) that can cause confusion and conflict. It still takes a human mind to make reasonable judgements. JMHO.
InfoLady – at 17:15
You are so right! And we always add that when it comes to knowledge and data, like any encyclopedia, the Flu Wiki is a place to start, rather than a place to end. ;-)
Lily, interesting that you would describe W.A.M. as lacking in grace. Other than being a rebel I found him somewhat unremarkable where the personal prameters of his life were concerned. Sure he was an introvert/extrovert with the occasional outburst of creative energy for public display, but for the sake of accuracy please explain what you mean when you indicate he lacked a graceful nature. By all accounts he was exceptionally kind and loving towards his wife and children. OK, there are those unsubstanciated rumors of his eye for ladies of exceptional beauty-perhaps an impulse control issue, but this is not at all atypical. By my interpretation at least, his bio-data indicated that he genuinely loved these ladies. He did have a parot, and he did die in a febrile state-bird flu, drunken fool or Masonic execution the theories are many. (OK, bird flu or one of it’s varients is remote but without a body???)
drw,
We do try to stay out of people’s personal business. Unless this affects the wiki in general, it is best left alone.
To Clarify- drw – at 00:17 >Lily, interesting that you would describe W.A.M. as lacking in grace. Melanie – at 00:20 We do try to stay out of people’s personal business.
I read this early a.m. and later thought:
None at least, that I can prove.
Mr White. I love Mozart and his music, I love Beethovan and his music, Brahms, Mahler and musicians past and present. Mozart had a father who promoted him. He, like Lord Chesterfield,with his son, tried to give him a polish that Mozart never seemed to achieve. What I refered to as grace, is more polish and an ability to please others. He cared for his wife, but would have prefered her sister. Its merely my impression. I stayed in Saltzberg for a time merely to soak it all in. One of my favorite operas is The Marriage of Figaro. I love his music. He could be a klutz, but all of us have our moments of klutzieness and noone more than 200 years later will give a damn.
drw,
Here is the current state of musicology on Mozart’s death:
“Severe Miliary Disease: Pneumonia: Brights Disease: Deposit on the brain: Apoplexy: Consumption: Rheumatic and Inflammatory Fever: Epilepsy: Uraemia: Renal Failure: Lack of exercise and overwork: Dropsy: Chronic Nephritis: Severe Grippe: Heart Failure: Tuberculosis: Meningitis: Kidney Failure: Encephalitis: Injury (Unspecified): Goitre: Typhoid Fever: Water on the chest: Gastritis: Cirrhosis: Tabes Dorsalis: Typhus: Fractured skull.
Some of these are very imprecise or highly speculative. A number of the symptoms listed, Brights Disease, uraemia, renal failure and nephritis are associated with kidney disease which is now widely accepted as the cause of death. Two major studies in recent years are those of Dr. Carl Bar (Salzburg 1972) and Australian consultant Peter Davies (various 1984–89). Bar, with considerable conviction, proposed that acute rheumatic fever was the underlying cause of death. Davies, while acknowledging that Mozart had suffered from early attacks of rheumatic fever, presented a strong case for the progression to final illnesses as “streptococcal infection - Schonlein-Henoch Syndrome - renal failure - venesection(s) - cerebral haemorrhage - terminal bronchopneumonia”. “
Translation: we don’t have the foggiest notion.
Lily, thank you for explaining what you meant. I to enjoy Mozart, Beethovan, Chopin, Shubert etc. Yes,he was very smitten with his wifes sister Aloysia Von Weber who rejected him it appears at least in part over his perceived prospects in life. Needless to say he was cronically in love with unobtainable women (sounds a little like Beethovan there), with a few notable relationships.
Melanie, thank you for your input and research into some of the possable causes of his death. Although less popular and perhaps even less substanciated are the theories that he was poisoned (his own stated personal believe). For years many have suspected Salieri. A more radical claim still involves “The Magic Flute” and the claim that it revealed Masonic lore. Ultimately, you are right all that can be made out of his deaths cause lies in symtomology. The unspecified injury probably relates to the conjectural “drunken fall” and supposed head injury. I do agree with the statement that he was just passing through.
My, what a laundry list of maladies.
Lily and drw, I was concerned Melanie thought that you were talking about me. As the decendants of Mozart can tell you both have great respect and love for his genius.
I stepped away to another thread regarding “A Controversy” and was wondering if this thread would cause any other ramifications to the site. I am only on Part II.
Btw, Theresa42 is not my wife.
As a musician and musicologist, I can only be glad that we had Mozart with us for as long as we did. That we never got to hear the works of his late years, as we have with Haydn, is a loss.
The bird that Mozart had was not a parrot. Possibly a thrush. He heard it singing a refrain which was not even out on the stage, but I think something he might have whistled in the street and the bird picked it up. He bought the bird.I have the greatest of respect and admiration for his genius. The most gracious man I ever heard of was Churchills forbearer, John Churchill the 1st Lord Marlborough. He had the ability to say nothing to offend, and everything to please, while rarely setting a foot wrong. We don’t often get men like that. But he never wrote a note of music.Mozart would have done better in his lifetime if he had gone to London.
Never setting a foot wrong, or never saying anything in such a way as to offend, is an exceedingly rare trait. I wonder that any here could manage that in even a week or month, much less a lifetime. I know I have managed to irritate any number of others, but my astrological signs main flaw, is a foot in the mouth. I think the Niman controversy will die off, and let us hope things will calm down.
You are correct Lilly. Memory fades over time. I should have said parakeet but even that would have been apparently wrong. One sight indicated that he owned a starling (which he gave a first class burial to). I’m not sure that W.A.M. would want others to put him on such a high pedistal where his behavior is concerned. It’s obvious that he was extradinarily good natured, kind in his own way beyond what we encounter in our everyday lives. Yet, we are looking through a distant lens at his life through the faulty repeated perceptions of historians and biographers. Where human beings would judge him at fault we also see them as a part of the entrapment driven by feelings of inadequacy (primal ego posturing). As far as not saying anything to offend another, I’m pretty sure I’ve made it a week before (of course, I tend to be an introvert and somewhat asocial). I guess my experiences and veiws of others does at times get a little Beethovanesque.
I love the way these topics often range off-topic. I personally learn so much. This is a vary diverse yet well managed forum.
Back to the main topic (I think). I have no problem with pseudonyms. I just wish all the anonymies (is there a plural for anonymous?) would identify themselves even if only by number. After awhile I determine those people that have opinions that I am interested in hearing even if I don’t agree with said opinion. When the comment is from an Anonymous I tend to skip over them. Of course, I suppose people abuse handles so maybe the whole issue is moot.
Don’t mind me. I sometimes feel like I am losing my mind.
Back off-topic. I too love Mozart’s music. It has been fascinating to read the above comments about his life and death.
CAMike – at 22:06 <I love the way these topics often range off-topic…. …Don’t mind me. I sometimes feel like I am losing my mind.>
Wilkommen Herr CAMike.
Mr White42, I will if I can find it. I know it is around here somewhere.
Hey now!
Does the use of real names damage credibility?
But then again, “Namin” could be a handle.
Or,better yet-
“Teh Namin”
Coprimising cred. is never a good move. A better idea may have been to reword the thread eman,-- I mean, -name without the phrase “_H@%^-ing our credibility”.
The general implication is there. Thread Names should possibly looked at more closely.
bumped and not forgotten.
Bump
This will be my last bump. If no one else cares then do not reply and it will be eventually closed.
Not so quick, cam
BB do you want to close it up or could you offer some birds of wisdom?
Mr White42, cam indeed. ;-)
I am not trying to force closure but since most of the recent replies/bumps have been from the 2 of us maybe it is time to let the topic die. The topic can always be resurrected if there is interest.
Close it up BB--------------- or reopen as “what gives fluwikie credibility”
Bump That.
BB, I think you are still on va-ca. Sorry, Dude,-Keepin’ Buzy, I guess.
Please forward to Credibility Dept. Thanx.
Closed to maintain Forum speed.