crfullmoon – at 16:58
(Dear Mrs.Tom DVM, I’m sure you’re busy too, but please, go prep. Luv, the TDVM Fan Club.)
“…1830 to 1918 to 2006…am 88 year time frame…” I take patterns from you seriously, TomDVM.
I’d put you, Monotreme, Medical Maven, CanadaSue, Anon22, and too many to name, but sure could have a full Flu Wiki dozen, in charge. The world needs people’s long-term health, cared about, and the ecosystem understood, more than short-term, benefits-few politics.
Ok; keep a straight face during this quote: (We already know how many other places in mammals H5N1 ends up!) “The organism is carried on the pig’s tonsils and is spread pig-to-pig through nose rubbing or coughing. But it’s only found in small concentration on the pigs’ tonsils, so it’s difficult for a human to catch it that way,”
(Buzzer sounds!)
Joe Neubarth – at 09:43, …”people who were involved in the butchering of the pigs that had died were dying also. Many were dying within hours of contact with raw meat. There were a hell of a lot more than just 37 of them. China was able to get that under control by stopping the butchering of any infected/sick pig. If pigs were suspect, the meat had to be cut up with protection worn”…
(We’re away past “we don’t live with chickens” “nor rub noses with pigs” reassurances, officials.)
anonymous – at 10:27, “when they die within hours, then it can’t be influenza” (Buzzer sounds!)
“It was just influenza” that was causing recently healthy people to drop dead during the 1918–1919 pandemic.
Dennis C. thanks for the chart (though the lines look a bit like my sleep patterns, somehow) MAinVA, I remember about that wicked big X flare! (Didn’t the Japanese just launch something? -Oh; …”the Solar-B mission, a UK, US and Japanese collaboration, hopes to learn more about solar flares.”)
Pigs, mammals Vivarridae, Herpestidae, or “other”…ugh. Too many possibilities, too many continents. TOM DVM – at 10:51 “…In one day we go from relative security to full blown pandemic…all mutations in at the same time producing a pandemic ready virus that gets on an airplane exactly the way SARS did.”
this 11-years-cycle theory had been published before - and abandonned.
…within hours after exposure to the bad meat was the statement. One influenza replication cycle takes about 10 hours from entering the cell until leaving it. While some bacteria can replicate every 20min. I don’t know about strep suis.
I read my name somewhere but I’m completely lost. This being part 8, can someone do me a favor of summarizing (and analyzing) all the previous posts….
Just kidding. :-)
I’m still completely lost though. Oh well…
On the prior thread [7] I mentioned the large solar flares of Oct-Nov 2003 and TomDVD followed up by asking for more information.
Tom DVM, I would be most happy to oblige! It turns out that the end of Oct, 2003 was a particulary active week in solar flares. One right after the other in growing intensity, until the largest one on November 4th.
The full series is listed here http://tinyurl.com/nnra4
Although the Nov 4th solar flare was catagorized as an X28; one of my clients, an astrophysicist with the Hubble project later told me that it was considered by some as an X43. Bear in mind that at the time, the largest ever recorded was an X20!
In doing some preliminary research to find out if the Nov 4th solar flare was officially recatagorized from an X28 to an X43, I was unable to verify that; however I did find this quote at http://tinyurl.com/twlt
“Craig DeForest, a solar physicist at the Southwest Research Institute, said others in his field are discussing the possibility that Tuesday’s flare was an X40.
“I’d take a stand and say it appears to be about X40 based on extrapolation of the X-ray flux into the saturated period,” DeForest told SPACE.com.
That estimate may even be conservative, he said.”
So, Tom, while the humongous Nov 4th solar flare is still considered the largest on record, there may be a question as to whether or not it was merely an X28 or was closer to the X43 as my client also claimed. Either way, I think we can agree that the last week of Oct and the first week of Nov, 2003 was seriously significant for solar flares! I may be able to do more research on this tomorrow — the Notre Dame v Michigan State game is calling! If you have any more questions - fire away!
582 samples
263 PRRS
167 CSF
130 PCV-2
17 Aujeszky’s
6 Streptococcus suis
1 pasteurellosis
47 porcine contagious pleuropneumonia
PMWS ?
PDNS ?
-----
sum=631
>><<
pleuropnomia sounds like flu. Why did they put the 47 as last although 47 is larger than 1,6 or 17 ? Hmm…
Wow!! You know I don’t think there is a question I could ask that would not be answered on flu wiki…well okay…there is one type of question…VETERINARY QUESTIONS BECAUSE MANY CATS AND I ARE THE ONLY VETERINARIANS ON FLU WIKI THAT WILL ADMIT IT!!…sorry…it’s only a MINOR IRRITATION.
MAinVA. Thanks!! I’m sure Medical Maven won’t mind if I crown you the new sunspot specialist on flu wiki. /:0)
My question would be to your clients the astrophysicist…do you have any interest or have you heard of sunspots and emerging or mutating viruses…what has the relative suspot activity been in the time periods..1970–85, 1985–95, 1996–2006?
Any information they could give us would be greatly apprecitated.
Tom, I am a synthesizer not a specialist, a jack of all trades, master of none. Sounds like a resume’ for a pandemic. : )
earlier paper on PHFD:
The secondary mixed infections and parasitic infections , including swine fever virus (HCV), and porcine reproductive and shout absorption syndrome virus (PRRSV), swine influenza virus (SIV), pseudorabies virus (ADV), porcine circovirus disease drug type 2 (PCV-II) Actinobacillus actinomycetemcomitans and Actinobacillus pleuropneumoniae (APP), an Streptococcus suis type 2 (SS-II), Deputy Haemophilus Paratuberculosis (HP), Pasteurella multocida (PM), Pig mycoplasma pneumonia (MH), toxoplasmosis, attached red cell, Salmonella cholerae - suis (SC), etc. Bacteria infection.
1: Vet J. 2003 Nov;166(3):251–6. Association of porcine circovirus 2 with porcine respiratory disease complex. Kim J, Chung HK, Chae C.
porcine respiratory disease complex (PRDC) porcine circovirus 2 (PCV2)
Among the 105 pigs with PRDC, 85 were positive for PCV2, 66 were positive for porcine reproductive and respiratory syndrome virus (PRRSV), 60 were positive for porcine parvovirus (PPV), 14 were positive for swine influenza virus (SIV). There were 80 co-infections and 25 single infections.
[Korea,2003]
assume some disease, some virus which is triggered by secondary infections, like PCV2, then this virus must be somehow hard to detect or masked by the secondary infections. PCV3 maybe ?
Monotreme – at 17:34 crfullmoon – at 16:58 wrote:
Ok; keep a straight face during this quote: (We already know how many other places in mammals H5N1 ends up!)
“The organism is carried on the pig’s tonsils and is spread pig-to-pig through nose rubbing or coughing. But it’s only found in small concentration on the pigs’ tonsils, so it’s difficult for a human to catch it that way,”
I have a friend who has spent most of his life in close contact with pig/chickien tonsils, through his work as a federal meat inspector. After he read some stories about bird flu, he wondered about some of the strange skin infections that he and only his co-workers seem to suffer from.
Tom DVM, I feel honored to be considered any type of “expert” among all the real scientists on this board! I’d be happy to check on those series of dates to see what, if anything was going on vis a vis solar activity.
What I do know is that this last solar cycle seemed to be longer than expected. [Another observation shared by my astrophysicist friend.] Perhaps because of the amount of activity that continued past the normal peak of the 11 year cycle. If this is true, then it may relate to the final set of dates that you list above. I’ll check it out.
Another thing I’ve learned is that within the last few weeks the new solar cycle bagan when it was noted that the polarity of a new sun spot was reversed. Apparently that is the sign that the new cycle has begun. This may or may not be important as it relates to your looking for patterns, [something we both have in common, btw!]
Medical Maven. Birds of a feather…flock together!! /:0)
MAin VA. Thanks. I really look forward to reading your findings…this thing has intrigued me for years…how a sunspot could affect a virus is amazing.
One thing though…DennisC’s chart looks to symetrical…could you ask your friends whether things may be a little more variable then as represented there…
…it would be nice to correlate no risk for five years if that is what the patterns indicate…of course we have 1890 that was supposedly the worst pandemic in 400 years if you count the twentieth century…thanks.
I read that based on that polarity reverse that late this year or next the sunspot activity was going to be gearing up on towards the maximum by 2012. As I had noted some months back this may be the most intense solar maximum in modern times based on the preliminary readings.
Electrical grids could go down, and satellites could be brought down or incapacitated just due to this factor. If panflu has already arrived, it may just “bounce the rubble”.
Tom DVM Since ND is getting creamed, I may start my research tonight! LOL Then bounce what I get off my friend. Hate to ask him to do the grunt work.
Now, I just did a scan using another aspect of astronomy and have found something that is raising my PPF factor something big! Looking at the transit of Saturn around the Sun, it was in the same location along the ecliptic during the 1830 pandemic, in 1889[a pandemic that came out of China] and in 1918! Saturn is going to be located in the same postion as these three dates during this Fall, 2006. What are the odds of that given that the Saturn cycle around the Sun is 29 years?
and how does Saturn communicate with those viruses on earth ?
anonymous-You are hitting slow, easy softballs here. Don’t get too cocky. : )
Hmhmhm…not good…that’s a pattern I would rather not stumble upon.
anonymous. That is why I remember reading the comment about the sunspots in the 1980′s so well…
…my sentiments exactly…How the heck could sunspots make viruses mutate?
I think the answer is in a dog who can sense earthquakes before they happen or sense thunderstorm before they are forecast…or hear things before we do…alot that nature does is beyond our five senses capability to interact or comprehend.
anonymous at 23:03 and how does Saturn communicate with those viruses on earth ?
It calls them on the phone. They listen for the “Rings” of Saturn.
P.S. It’s Earth with a capital “E”. Don’t insult the Motherland!
anonymous – at 23:03
and how does Saturn communicate with those viruses on earth ?
Basic stuff really. The two large planets, (Jupiter and Saturn) have a sufficient gravitational pull to effect the way radiation from sun spots moves through the solar system. As we all know normal back ground radiation can cause minor mutations in the smaller cell organisms, hence an increase in that radiation would increase the mutations in something oh say viruses. Increase in virus out breaks because Saturn is in a specific position may be nothing but it may be worth the time to study to verify the effects.
MA in VA 22:54
When you play Notre Dame…you have to wait until the game ends.
So Sorry MSN.
Well, I may or may not have what you are looking for, Tom; however I suggest you check this out. I found a chart that gives the number of solar flares for each month between January 1965 and through August of 2005. It doesn’t distinquish between M Class and X Class, if that is an important factor. Here is the link: http://tinyurl.com/efhqf When you get to the page, scroll down a bit to where the heading says “PDF Tables of H-alpha Solar Flares” then click on “Number of Solar Flares 1965 to present (pdf)” Because your dates scan whole decades, you will find this list is rather comprehensive. If this is NOT what you are looking for, give me more specifics. Thanks!
No, Saturn doesn’t “talk” to the viri nor does it cause anything any more than the hands of the clock straight up at noon “cause” you to be hungry! Just view this as an interesting coincidence, unless like me, you don’t believe in coincidences! I believe like many cultures including the American Indians, that things in nature can be taken as symbols or omens of what is happening in the world. Even Genesis says that the “lights” in the heavens shall “be for signs, and for seasons.”
Um, I guess you folks got everything handled, then…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4755328.stm
Hi All- I heard this guy talking on the radio. Thought it might be a good way to add to the thread. Europe’s “Little Ice Age” may have been triggered by the 14th Century Black Death plague, according to a new study. Pollen and leaf data support the idea that millions of trees sprang up on abandoned farmland, soaking up carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
This would have had the effect of cooling the climate, a team from Utrecht University, Netherlands, says. The Little Ice Age was a period of some 300 years when Europe experienced a dip in average temperatures. Dr Thomas van Hoof and his colleagues studied pollen grains and leaf remains collected from lake-bed sediments in the southeast Netherlands.
Monitoring the ups and downs in abundance of cereal pollen (like buckwheat) and tree pollen (like birch and oak) enabled them to estimate changes in land-use between AD 1000 and 1500. Pore clues
The team found an increase in cereal pollen from 1200 onwards (reflecting agricultural expansion), followed by a sudden dive around 1347, linked to the agricultural crisis caused by the arrival of the Black Death, most probably a bacterial disease spread by rat fleas.
This bubonic plague is said to have wiped out over a third of Europe’s population. (There is an alternate view taht the Black Death was not Bubonic, but a haemoraghic, H2H virus- Clark)
Counting stomata (pores) on ancient oak leaves provided van Hoof’s team with a measure of the fluctuations in atmospheric carbon dioxide for the same period. This is because leaves absorb carbon dioxide through their stomata, and their density varies as carbon dioxide goes up and down.
“Between AD 1200 to 1300, we see a decrease in stomata and a sharp rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide, due to deforestation we think,” says Dr van Hoof, whose findings are published in the journal Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology.
But after AD 1350, the team found the pattern reversed, suggesting that atmospheric carbon dioxide fell, perhaps due to reforestation following the plague. The researchers think that this drop in carbon dioxide levels could help to explain a cooling in the climate over the following centuries.
Ocean damper From around 1500, Europe appears to have been gripped by a chill lasting some 300 years. There are many theories as to what caused these bitter years, but popular ideas include a decrease in solar activity, an increase in volcanic activity or a change in ocean circulation. The new data adds weight to the theory that the Black Death could have played a pivotal role.
Not everyone is convinced, however. Dr Tim Lenton, an environmental scientist from the University of East Anglia, UK, said: “It is a nice study and the carbon dioxide changes could certainly be a contributory factor, but I think they are too modest to explain all the climate change seen.”
And Professor Richard Houghton, a climate expert from Woods Hole Research Center in Massachusetts, US, believes that the oceans would have compensated for the change. “The atmosphere is in equilibrium with the ocean and this tends to dampen or offset small changes in terrestrial carbon uptake,” he explained.
Nonetheless, the new findings are likely to cause a stir. “It appears that the human impact on the environment started much earlier than the industrial revolution,” said Dr van Hoof
MAinVA – at 22:54
Tom DVM
Anon_451
Others
The positions of our two biggest bodies in the sky can be well computed with a number of software on the Internet (a bit less accurately for early centuries). There have been some studies in such cycles, but unfortunately these studies correlating planetary movement with mundane matters have not been done by astronomers, but by people practising the art of astrology, which is usually not considered serious. When you take for measure the time from, say birth of Christ to now, you are bound to find that Saturn will turn up at decisive moments of this humanity, and it probably would not be statistically significant. At most, one could talk about intriguing coincidences. Even if you did find something significant, you’d be loathed to use that as an argument for prepping cities and governments as you’d be taken even more for a basket case than just presenting nowadays scientific (medical, virological, epizootic) information.
Now shouldn’t we go back to discussing our hidden mammalian reservoir? :-D
22, millions of pigs were dying in China with undiagnosed disease (“pig-high-fever-disease) since end of July. China was covering up as usual. One Hongkong article was suggesting they should consider H5N1. Now the symptoms and virus tests were reported. It looks to me like some virus infection which is triggered/activated/increased by other secondary infections (including flu) and which worsen the disease a lot. Similar to porcine circovirus which was also a problem in North America last year. TomDVM and Monotreme are still very sceptic and afraid it could be H5N1.
I forgot to mention that mortality was very high, 40%. Higher than usual with these secondary diseases. They say, the spread of the disease could be controlled, contained now. 1 million dead pigs were reported inofficially, probably more (unconfirmed)
FrenchieGirl. I would be the last person to waste time on idle speculation and I agree that the other hidden mammalian reservoir is important (I think reservoir #1 has now been confirmed as pigs… we don’t have the index reservoir bats, shoreline mammals etc.)…
…but the relationship between sunspots and mutations has as far as understand it been confirmed and is known to many researchers…
…we have one question left to answer with respect to H5N1 and pandemic (virulence has been answered in the last eighteen months…will be as bad or worse than 1918)…and that is timing…when is it going to happen.
The astronomical studies to put together previously unidentified and unexplained patterns may give us some indication of similar environmental conditions that may indicate a predictive measure for timing…and I for one, want to answer this question…because then all the questions will be answered.
The pattern observed so far, may indicate that the pandemic may not occur when I thought it would…which would be in the next nine months…
…If the astronomical pattern and sunspots indicate a high likelyhood six years from now then I could relax a bit and study other related matters…
…I know that nature is completely unpredictable and never repeats itself twice (regularly irregular) but I am really intrigued in this pathway to an answer on timing thanks.
Thanks.
Journal Watch
September 24, 2006
Two studies suggest that the SARS virus may have originated in bats, not civets.
“The worldwide outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) was caused by a newly emerged coronavirus (SARS-CoV) that was probably transmitted to humans by palm civets. However, civets are not believed to be a natural reservoir of the virus. Two new studies have independently provided evidence that bats may serve that function.
Lau and colleagues obtained nasopharyngeal and anal swabs from 127 bats, 60 rodents, and 20 monkeys from rural areas around Hong Kong. These were examined for SARS-CoV by reverse-transcriptase PCR. Anal swabs from 29 lesser bent-winged and horseshoe bats tested positive. Complete genome sequencing, performed on three samples collected on different dates, exhibited 88% nucleotide and 93% amino acid homology to SARS-CoV from humans and civets. Only 1 of 38 serum samples from patients with recent human SARS-CoV infections had antibodies that recognized the bat SARS-CoV.
Li and colleagues obtained blood, fecal, and throat specimens from 408 bats, representing nine species, from four locations in China. Antibodies to SARS CoV were detected in 20 of the 59 horseshoe bats tested; in 5 of the 20 animals, PCR analyses of fecal samples revealed SARS-like CoVs. Complete genome sequencing of the PCR products from one fecal sample revealed a 92% nucleotide sequence identity to SARS-CoV. Analysis of this complete genome sequence and partial sequences from the four other PCR-positive fecal samples showed considerable genetic diversity, however.
Comment: Two independent studies have demonstrated asymptomatic infection of a relatively high percentage of horseshoe bats in China with SARS-like CoVs. Although these findings do not prove that bats are a primary reservoir from which SARS-CoV arose, they certainly raise that possibility.” - excerpt
“There are approximately 70 species of horseshoe bat worldwide; in South East Asia over 30 species have originated in the last five million years alone. “
The coronavirus is both avian-like and bovine-like, and is thought to represent a new family of coronaviruses.
Tom DVM – at 09:56 You are right to try and fix the timing issue based on Historically recorded events; If TPTB are basing PAN Flu on 1918 and 57/68 timing could be tied there as well.
Klatu – at 10:39 Concur that a real hard look at bats needs to be made. I have read somewhere that they may also be the carrier of Ebola.
FrenchieGirl – at 04:08 What I believe that we were all saying is that science should not stop at the know but should always push into the unknown for answers. An old saying goes:
The more I learn the more I realize how little I know.
Anon_451 – at 12:01 wrote”
Klatu – at 10:39 “Concur that a real hard look at bats needs to be made. I have read somewhere that they may also be the carrier of Ebola.”
Yes I’ve read the same. Ebola although very serious, has less sustained transmission than H5N1, because the victims sicken and die too quickly to have time to spread it into the community, the way an aysymptomatic BF might.
Tom DVM, I know you were offered an email address at ohsingtomemuse [?] however I don’t know if you are using that or not. If you were open to more dialogue on the above solar flares, etc. I would love to be in contact. If that is not an option, then perhaps another thread, so we don’t take this one any further afield. I will also amend my profile to include an email address.
As for the acceptance or not of a correlation between events on Earth and planetary locations, I might point out an irony — the person who won the Nobel Prize for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction, [without which we may not be able to discuss things like mammalian reservoirs], Dr. Kary Mullis, is also someone very knowledgeable in astrology. He included a whole chapter discussing this in his book, Dancing Naked in the Mindfield. I think some of you might be VERY surprised to learn that there are other scientists who do not reject it out of hand, especially if they took the time to observe and test it for themselves. Making a judgment without having evidence upon which to base that judgment doesn’t seem scientific to me, but then, I’m not a scientist, so what do I know? ;^)
Please start another thread…the science/exploration is the best thing about H5N1.
All points of view are valid, they are just another point of view.
MAinVa. As you, I am interested in the science of astronomy or astrology identifying gateposts leading to the 1918 outbreak and environmental similarites that might cause simllar forces to sunspots to influence th mutation rate of pathogens. The Meyians (sp) couldn’t have been all wrong.
Maybe we can do some preliminary investigations and then bring the conclusions to a new thread…
Medical Maven…you up for taking a walk down this path…should be interesting.
Sorry, my keyboard must like being anonymous.
Tom DVM at 17:03-I am not a big advocate of astrology, but I do not doubt that Solar and Extrasolar events outside of our planetary system affects everything here on Earth. All scientists will admit to those facts. They just don’t know how and to what effect. It has been conjectured that galactic cosmic clouds which our Solar System transits through in patterns of tens to hundreds of thousands of years affect the timing and severity of our Ice Ages and naturally occurring Global Warmings (among other factors like Earth’s varying planetary tilt and wobble). Instead of the planets aligning, it may be more a matter of galactic positioning and stray events like detectable bursts of energy from pulsars that may come together to make that final cataltytic push for any given panflu.
To start a thread on this would be grasping at the unknowable. I think once in a while you just have to give chaos its due, and set the patterns aside (even though I dearly love them as do you). : )
I wrote (with many interruptions) the following before no name asked for the tangents to be taken elsewhere. I don’t know where else to post this, so I will go ahead and post it on this thread.
From clark’s post at 17:59 and again at 03:14 -
I find this whole thread fascinating, but clark’s posting has really piqued my interest because of a very peculiar thing I’ve noticed here where I live in the mountains of southern California.
One of my passions is gardening, so I spend a lot of time outdoors. And this year, for the first time in the almost 19 years I’ve lived here, I have noticed an extraordinary number of pine tree seedlings. Although I always see an odd seedling here or there, this year is different. They are all over the place. In the sun and in the shade, in areas I water and in areas I don’t.
(And although we had a relatively good winter (high precip) this past year, I don’t think it’s just that. We’ve had plenty of high precip winters before and I’ve never seen so many seedlings.)
Up until now, considering all the local pine trees lost to the ravages of bark beetle disease and also considering that, in the event of a pandemic, I expect most of my decorative planting to wither, I’ve viewed the seedlings as nothing other than a wonderful coincidence. Maybe even a miracle.
But now I have to wonder if they don’t represent something more ominous.
And if they do, if there is any connection between a pandemic and “millions of trees [springing] up on abandoned farmland,” based on my personal observations I would also have to wonder which event—the pandemic or the springing up of trees—came (or comes) first.
Hi Scaredy Cat. Where have you been…or did I just miss your postings…good to see you’re back…/:0)
Medical Maven Thanks. /:0)
Hi Tom. Yeah, I’ve been around. I guess you missed my postings.
Say, have you learned to type with your fingers crossed?
anonymous – at 06:53
“China was covering up as usual.”
They’ll continue this route until the pandemic strain emerges an gets a name like Indonesian Flu, Sumatran Flu, Vietnamese Flu, or AnyOtherWhereAsLongAsItsNotChinese Flu.
This thread has drifted a wee bit. Can I suggest those who wish to discuss sunspots and/or astrology start a new thread? Please don’t take this the wrong way. I’ve been guilty of thread drift on many occasions.
As for the name of the pandemic strain of H5N1, how about Hu-WHO Flu?
I provide the following solely to provide informatin on who Hu is. It is not meant to be partisan. It is intended to lighten people’s mood a bit.
you forgot to say that his 2nd name is “mour”. Yeah, and those with humour and retracted sequences and censorship in China please join the sunspot-folks. This thread is only for pigs ;-)
Here is some feedback from the OIE Report I posted on the Pigs in China. From ProMed.
UNDIAGNOSED DISEASE, PORCINE - CHINA (03): OIE
ProMED-mail http://tinyurl.com/fnu8b
<promed@promedmail.org>
[We will continue to refer to this disease as “undiagnosed” rather than “high fever” disease until a more definitive diagnosis is established, either as a syndrome resulting from mixed infections with particular agents or when a definite single agent is identified. Such questions of causality are not uncommon when a new disease occurs; PRRS was originally referred to as “mystery disease.” There are many instances in the annals of infectious disease when a new disease gets tagged with a temporary name until the cause is more definitively ascertained.
A couple of questions, at least, remain. First, it would be interesting to find out whether sick swine were tested for influenza, H1N1, H1N2, or H3N2, which circulate in Asia, and also for H5N1 to increase active surveillance for influenza. Secondly, none of the 3 agents, PRRS, CSF or PCV2, are known for having marked seasonal distributions, yet a summer distribution seems to be one of the most prominent features of the outbreaks described by this report. As always, there are more questions than answers when something new comes along.
It is very helpful to have official word of this from the Chinese animal health authorities, and OIE again proves itself to be an invaluable source of definitive animal health information. - Mod.PC]
Yes, please start a climate change/sunspot thread-I would like to learn more about them. Wierd- a year ago I wouldn’t have thought pig diseases to be so interesting…
(Hee hee hee- Hu-Who Flu! ;-) )
Commonground. An excellent and well-based analysis as usual…Thanks for your continued sleuthing on the topic…the Chinese Government doesn’t know WHO they are up against. /:0)
The operative word is…”Such questions of causality are not uncommon when a new disease occurs”…
…this is the first time that they have admitted that once again they have an exotic disease on their hands…
…it is pretty clear that this is the reason for their recent antics…for what it’s worth, they appear to be concerned that H5N1 is playing a role in this syndrome…
…funny thing when they gave the shopping list of involved diseases and diseases they had tested for…influenza, a relatively common disease in pigs was not named in the rule outs or the testing!!
Commonground – at 07:07
Great job. Notice that Moderator PC is now specifically mentioning H5N1 as something that should be tested for. Is it possible that they are a wee bit skeptical as to the Mr. Youling’s explanation of all those pig deaths?
TomDVM & Monotreme - I thought it was interesting that it appeared after I posted it here the other day? I will say no more.
Closed and continued here.