I am so disgusted right now. I asked for the ESF 8 plan for the town, the medical part. They won’t give it to me cause its top secret and terrorists could get a hold of it.
What has happened the last two months with me trying to get info from this has made me really, really consider moving out when my youngest is done high school. I have run into road block after road block. There is no way they can have everything they need in that plan.
Forget the job they are going to have, I have more of a chance of winning the lottery tonight.
Sorry to be so negative but this whole episode of trying to inform has made me sick! But I love all you guys :)
Thanks
Birdie Kate What about the freedom of information act??? Would that apply in this kind of thing??
The other thing that will apply is voter pressure at the polls in november.
Birdie Kate—I wonder if a few calls/letters to your local newspaper or television station might help. If they are just telling you it is “top secret” so that you’ll go away, they might not be willing to continue that in the face of more public scrutiny. Also, do you guys have “Sunshine Laws” in your state? If you do, the meetings and its product may be state-designated public records? Good luck.
Most state and local FOIA laws in the USA are patterned after the Federal statutes. Those statutes allow information to be withheld if it is “specifically authorized under criteria established by an Executive order to be kept secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy. Regrettably, governmental agencies can withhold the information if they claim a similar sort of exemption at their level. My own local water department has declined to discuss specifics of their pandemic planning with me, claiming “security” exemptions.
If they aren’t preparing the public for possible months of “ homebound by illness or quarantine” they are planning to fail during an H5N1 pandemic.
Try getting the WHO Ten Things from last Oct, and the US federal pandemicflu.gov checklists out to stakeholders. (Include getting the Flu Wiki handouts to essential workers and first responders when you see them out on the street.)
Also, doesn’t sound like the school system is going to be providing a safe environment, right? Not ready if pandemic breaks out next month?
Don’t bang your head on the wall; the wall stays put, and it only annoys your head…
No fun being on this end of history. Do what we can.
Birdie Kate,
If I may offer a suggestion… Call your Public Health Department Physician. Set up a meeting… Take with you a presentation you have created, and tell them you are going to do a series of presentations for churches, girl scouts, rotary club, business owners, etc.
Show the doctor your presentation and tell them that you want to make sure you are giving your audiences the same message as the public health department and that it is in line with the county plans for a pandemic.
Ask for suggestions and any other information that needs to be included.
Then go do some presentations…….
Set up another meeting after the presentations and let the doc know of the reactions of your audiences, and report back the questions that they had. Ask for answers, for those specific questions.
But, make sure you actually give those presentations….. If you say you are going to cover certain populations, the public health dept may cut them off their list. They will be a missed population.
Just a thought…..
Birdie Kate – at 21:56
Don’t sweat that-I had the same problem in my township. The big ‘secret’ they’re hiding is this- where the antibiotics to treat anthrax are stored and where they would give mass vaccinations. This stuff was done in big table-top exercises called “Top-off” where a bioterroristic attack was simulated.
The info you really needs is this-does each department, including the governing body have an emergency plan in place? Most likely they do,but not with the preparations needed for a pandemic.
What I have found to be effective is speaking before the governing body during public access time at meetings. Short, sweet and to the point teaching-how what top off covered is not the same thing as preparing for panflu where a vaccination will not be ready until 6–9 months into the pandemic, and those antibiotics stored for anthrax will not cure panflu. Teach them that essential workforces will be reduced by 40% (personally, I think it will be higher than that), that essential supplies the township needsto function will be nonexistant or in short supply ie gasoline, electricity andthat some of the people hit first and hardest will be the first responders.
As them how the town will continue to function effectively under circumstances like that. Suggest that they form a pandemic task force, and volunteer to work on it. A task force was recommended by the federal DHHS.
Read them this-slowly,with emphasis on the little or no assistance part (boy, this was really effective for m approach to my township)
‘If efforts to contain isolated outbreaks within the U.S. were unsuccessful and influenza spread quickly to affect many more communities either simultaneously or in quick succession—the hallmark of a pandemic—response assets at all levels of government and the private sector would be taxed severely. Communities would need to direct all their influenza response assets to their own needs and would have little to spare for the needs of others. Moreover, as the number of affected communities grows, their collective need would spread the response assets of states and the federal government ever thinner. In the extreme, until a vaccine against the pandemic virus would become available in sufficient quantity to have a significant impact on protecting public health, thousands of communities could be countering influenza simultaneously with little or no assistance from adjacent communities, the state, or the federal government. Preparedness planning for pandemic influenza response must take this prospect into account.’
link: http://www.hhs.gov/pandemicflu/plan/part1.html
Tell them it will be like 100,000 simultaneous Katrinas-and no one coming to help. Really.
Yes Dennis, We do have a state law that says non public sessions minutes of meetings are off limits to the public. But it says something to the effect of discussions regarding planning for a deliberate act that will cause widespread illness and infastructure problems. So I called him on it, asking when were these public meetings? No response, but he did go off on me about they can’t plan for specific pandemics, he inly doing what he is told, blah blah blah. I told him I wil come and meet with him in person. I think I have burnt that bridge, and frankly it is taking its toll on me. I am very snappy and irratible.
FloridaGirl, We don’t have a public health department. In my state any person can be a public health officer with no requirements just being selected by the BOS. Funny thing is, our CERT Team leader will probably be the one for the job since the old one quit. This new guys knows nothing with a capital N. Very part time position.
crfullmoon, I couldn’t agree more, we are screwed as a town. I do have some phamplets from “Health America”, I think that is it and have some I made and will start trying to get them out. A problem with that is the majority of townsfolks don’t care. It could never happen HERE. But will make that my new goal and get my mind off the stupid elected officials I have. I have tried to tell them all hazards and pandemic aren’t even close. The school plan is definately lacking and I have approached the school. same story, they will take their lead from the town and state.
Grace, good point but I have pretty much tried that route via email. I did have some good news, one selectman said i could put information together and link it to our town page. The webmaster can be a jerk sometime but I do have the clout of permission so I will try and focus on that. I have emailed another to look at the ESF 8 and make sure my concerns were included like, maintenance drugs for townfolks, when to shut schools, morgue capacity, where to take and care of ill people, etc. so I will see where he gets. He is sorta into bird flu so maybe he will look into it and make sure my concerns are looked at. coming from him it might appear different. maybe i will email my other BOS reps.
I just don’t get WHY people don’t get it! I thank and commend all of you for your input and persitance. I myself am running out of steam, but will forge ahead.
Birdie Kate - I think FloridaGirl – at 19:43 had a good idea. When I contact my DOH several weeks ago and told them that I was going to teach some PP seminars starting on Sept. 23rd and that I wanted to get the most up-to-date info on the county’s plan (so I could answer questions appropriately), I thought they were going to s_ _t! Within about 10 seconds, they started telling me about how important it was for us all to be on the same page, sending the same message. That’s when they finally started sharing the “insider” information.
Ranchgirl, Grace RN, and others - I have been thinking seriously about my present situation and like most of you see no preps or action by this little “trendy” boro. So, next week, after the Pandemic Preparedness conference on Wednesday, I’m going to “boldly go where no one has gone before” and attack the biggest threat from within.
I live in 50 year-old 10 story apartment buildings, with hollow walls and only occasionally functional elevators. In the past 4 days we have had 2 small fires around 6 PM, both cooking mishaps, and the entire township’s fire force showed up, along with half the police. Still, less than half the building evacuated even with smoke in the halls. So, as I see it we have 4 buildings of 10 floors with 32 units a floor - about 320 units a building, 1200 total. Maybe 2500 residents. I’m going to the “new” building owners and ask them for their pandemic response plans to deal with isolation or evacuation. And I will also remind them that my lease expires in December and that I need an answer before I will renew. And that I will be passing this information along along to other residents in the next 30 days as a part of Pandemic Influenza Awareness Week.
These buildings represent about 5% of the township population and a big chunk of tax revenue. The residents have endured crumbling concrete ceilings, water outages, failing air handling units, elevators that behave like a slot machine in Atlantic City for successfully getting you to the lobby on a good day, and now threats to tow vehicles with flat tires while they have on-going construction that is over 2 months behind schedule (hence lots of nails and screws in the parking lots). I wonder if they will consider the possible legal / financial exposure of not preparing once some of the legal and medical people living here have forewarning.
I sincerely doubt that they will have an answer, and only paralysis will keep me from moving out at the end of my lease - even if I have to move into a tent - but I see these units as incubators for pan flu when it comes. I need to see somebody either do something to address it or to display stubborn fatalism by doing nothing - which will prove my decision for leaving is rational and sound.
Militarily, it would be referred to as abandoning an indefensible position to find a more advantageous point from which to stand, and it has been a basis of military tactic for centuries. Pandemic will be war, and I hate loosing to something that only has 8 strands in it’s RNA by following a poor general -or mayor. Now, if that makes me a public menace, I’ll be happy to go back where I came from. Maybe my wife will give in and let me try to save the kids by taking them there too.
Good luck to you!
“On message/one message” : “Speak with One Voice ” — Why I Disagree” by Peter M. Sandman, who helped write the “Crisis and Emergency Risk Communication” handbook produced by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Birdie Kate, handing the WHO’s Ten things you need to know about pandemic influenza that have been up since last Oct, and saying, the feds and state have said it is local responsibility, “to care for citizens homebound by illness or quarantine”, that we already quietly had (7 months ago!) our state pandemic summit with HHS Leavitt who says, No vaccines, and, Dr.Osterholm’s take on supply chain disruptions -this has worked.
Individuals have found it unfortunately believable, when they wonder Why they haven’t heard the international, federal, and state Pandemic warnings, nor of the local plans hidden under the meager bushel of an “all-hazards approach” when I explain, The local officials panicked last year and said, The first thing is- we can’t tell the public!
Hope and Despair are not plans of action.
Planning starts yesterday. Take action today.
I just attended a commuity pandemic flu/emergency meeting. I will post the details probably tomorrow, however, they were very open with their plans. They explained how everything would work and asked for thousands of volunteers to be trained to assist in an emergency. No secrets.
If they were proud and confident of their plan they would share it. Must not be so sure of whatever plan they have.
This Toronto Star article covers a broader range than just pandemic plans. It’s about a test of government openness conducted by the Canadian Newspaper Association. But this item stood out:
We seem to have a problem up here, too.
Pogge The other thing that report pointed out was that govt officials are being told ‘who’ is asking for info by the privacy commission - i.e. if it is a person/reporter they dont like, then they stall and prevaricate!! Outrageous!!! The Freedom of Information Act is a complete sham!
pogge gharris. There is a process through the auditor general’s office to ask a formal question…and ministers governments etc are forced to answer it…
…if we have specific questions that are troubling us…there is a process that forces their hand while not forcing them to release information…
…I have been chasing them for eight years…about three years ago they went to a system with no written records of any kind…everything oral only…no record or teleconferences or face to face conferences…to avoid having to release information under the freedom of information act…
…this was occuring at Health Canada, Agriculture Canada and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency…
…I’ll bet you if you put a request in about Mad Cow…you wouldn’t get a response back…because they are attempting to cover everything up…because they are going to lose that 9 billion dollar lawsuit about 6 years from now…I expect they will attempt to settle out of court…this case may have stimulated the overall change in attitude about freedom of information.
Whoops!! sorry Medical Maven.
I was told that it was secret because they didn’t want it to get out. I looked at their draft months ago and critiqued it and they were not too happy. I think I have butted heads with them one too many times. It seems they would rather be wrong that take my advise. I have written to my selectmen so I will see what comes of that. The town is in the process of hiring a health officer who has no qualifications except he is a nice guy. In my letter to the selectmen I said that their decisions would mean we suffer minimal impact or a hug impact, ultimately they woudl be responsible. Lets see what happens if anything.
Geez, a person cannot even volunteer anymore :(
Ruth, the devil is in the details.
Check their assumptions:
“They explained how everything would work and asked for thousands of volunteers to be trained to assist in an emergency”
Perhaps, Assumptions as an “emergency” that does not have a contagious, double-digit case fatality rate disease involved,
does not affect 10 to 40 year olds at an extremely high attack rate because of schools and business/vacation travel and current H5N1 age ranges,
assumptions that there will be an effective vaccine, even though Leavitt said there won’t be enough for all first responders/hcw/essential workers even after the first 6 months, and no capacity for the US public until maybe 5 or 6 years from now,
a pandemic that does not cause any disruptions in the manufacture and provision of energy, nor food, current medical/emergency care, Rx pharmaceuticals, law enforcement, wildfire fighting, border control, safely running nuclear power plants…?
If they haven’t already bought and stockpiled mucho PPE for esential workers and first responders, *and*, had them stockpile their families’ homes, and cross-trained workers, and *had* those community stakeholder meetings (the feds have all those nice sector checklists on pandemicflu.gov) gotten people to be ready if their kids shouldn’t go to school, have some way to not lose their housing ect, during a pandemic year,
we’re screwed.
There is a lot of opportunities between doing nothing and “Hope it won’t happen” and Despair that “it will be so bad there’s nothing we can do”.
Let the public know they’ve had *at least* 11 months to look at it, and they have to ‘fess up that the public has to rise to the occaision and try and get themselves better prepared, just in case, since it will be too late if we wait.
Be nice if all newspapers could run “Pandemic Awareness Week” this year…