From Flu Wiki 2

Forum: Vitamin D to Combat Affects of PBF Part 2

15 September 2006

Bronco Bill – at 19:20

Continued from here


spok – at 18:50

Dennis in Colorado – at 16:13

Thank you again.

Have you looked into Red Rice Yeast as a Statin?

And you didn’t mention the antibiotics that you have and when you’ll start using them.

The only other item that caught my eye, after all this time on fluwiki, was lemons and lemon water from the 1918 thread. It changes the ph in your body and there’s stories of it working in 1918.

In this chart it lists lemons in the “Extremely Alkaline” catagory:

http://home.bluegrass.net/~jclark/alkaline_foods.htm

anonymous – at 22:45

spok – at 18:50 Have you looked into Red Rice Yeast as a Statin?

Yes, but I’ve found insufficient evidence so far to warrant its use (for me). Most of the studies I remember were animal studies and one in particular from several years ago mentioned a very high variability in the level of the active element among different commercial products. I only had access to the abstract, so I couldn’t find out which commercial products were effective and which were not. I remember a comment (maybe in that article, maybe in another) that stressed the need for standardization of the red yeast rice extract. I agree that red yeast rice extract sure has the potential for use as a statin, but I don’t think it is ready for prime time yet.

And you didn’t mention the antibiotics that you have and when you’ll start using them

Right now, we have amoxicillin, 500mg caps, purchased as Fish Mox from amazon.com. No one in my immediate family has a known allergy to penicillin, so this was a logical broad-spectrum (available) antibiotic for us. Augmentin would be nice, but I don’t have a source for it. We’ll start a 10-day course of the amoxicillin at the first sign of any respiratory infection, along with the protocol we’ve established for viral infections (Tamiflu, Sambucol, & prednisolone). We have enough amoxicillin for six treatment courses.

…lemons and lemon water from the 1918 thread. It changes the ph in your body and there’s stories of it working in 1918.

I find it hard to believe that the acidity or alkalinity of any food or drink could make much difference in a respiratory infection, given the extraordnary ability of the body to buffer pH and maintain a very narrow range of “normal.” A bit more or less hydrochloric acid secreted into the stomach would seem to be able to overwhelm the acidty or alkalinity of any ingested juice. However, maybe there is some metabolite of lemon juice that has some unique properties, unrelated to its pH. I haven’t seen any controlled studies to support or reject that theory … but I haven’t searched very thoroughly for them.

Dennis in Colorado – at 22:54

anonymous = Dennis in Colorado and his efficient software that periodically deletes cookies.

Bronco Bill – at 23:22

I find it hard to believe that the acidity or alkalinity of any food or drink could make much difference in a respiratory infection, given the extraordnary ability of the body to buffer pH and maintain a very narrow range of “normal.” A bit more or less hydrochloric acid secreted into the stomach would seem to be able to overwhelm the acidty or alkalinity of any ingested juice. However, maybe there is some metabolite of lemon juice that has some unique properties, unrelated to its pH. I haven’t seen any controlled studies to support or reject that theory … but I haven’t searched very thoroughly for them.

Not to argue your point, for it’s well made. But I’m wondering, since newer studies are showing that H5N1 first lodges in the throat instead of the nasal passages, if the acidity in lemon juice (as well as any pure citrus juice) might disable the virus upon early exposure to it, before it passes to the lungs, much like Tamiflu reduces the symptoms if taken early enough. Could also be the sudden bump in Vitamin C. Just a thought…

16 September 2006

spok – at 00:09

I high jacked this thread. Sorry. That’s why I started a new thread:

“What Will You Be Ingesting and When”

Back on topic:

I will start by taking Vitamin D 2000 iu a day and if a pandemic comes I will bump it up to 4000 iu a day. I bought enough soft gels today to last my whole family for a year.

JWB – at 07:37

Dennis in Colorado “Right now, we have amoxicillin, 500mg caps, purchased as Fish Mox from amazon.com. “

I had heard that many pet meds were indentical but never really discussed this with anyone or read about.

Tom DVM, could you comment on this also?

Thanks. I was wondering where I could get this kind of medicine in bulk without a prescription. I’m going to prepare “CARE” kits for some young families in the neighborhood that aren’t prepping. When the SHTF the kits will magically appear at their doors one morning. This would be a great item to have in there.

Klatu – at 08:38

Epidemic Influenza And Vitamin D

15 Sep 2006

Medical News Today (excerpt)

Epidemic Influenza And Vitamin D

“However, as the epidemic progressed, I noticed something unusual. First, the ward below mine was infected, and then the ward on my right, left, and across the hall - but no patients on my ward became ill. My patients had intermingled with patients from infected wards before the quarantines. The nurses on my unit cross-covered on infected wards. Surely, my patients were exposed to the influenza A virus. How did my patients escape infection from what some think is the most infectious of all the respiratory viruses?

My patients were no younger, no healthier, and in no obvious way different from patients on other wards. Like other wards, my patients are mostly African Americans who came from the same prisons and jails as patients on the infected wards. They were prescribed a similar assortment of powerful psychotropic medications we use throughout the hospital to reduce the symptoms of psychosis, depression, and violent mood swings and to try to prevent patients from killing themselves or attacking other patients and the nursing staff. If my patients were similar to the patients on all the adjoining wards, why didn’t even one of my patients catch the flu?

A short while later, a group of scientists from UCLA published a remarkable paper in the prestigious journal, Nature. The UCLA group confirmed two other recent studies, showing that a naturally occurring steroid hormone - a hormone most of us take for granted - was, in effect, a potent antibiotic. Instead of directly killing bacteria and viruses, the steroid hormone under question increases the body’s production of a remarkable class of proteins, called antimicrobial peptides.

All of the patients on my ward had been taking 2,000 units of vitamin D every day for several months or longer. Could that be the reason none of my patients caught the flu? I then contacted Professors Reinhold Vieth and Ed Giovannucci and told them of my observations. They immediately advised me to collect data from all the patients in the hospital on 2,000 units of vitamin D, not just the ones on my ward, to see if the results were statistically significant. It turns out that the observations on my ward alone were of borderline statistical significance and could have been due to chance alone. Administrators at our hospital agreed, and are still attempting to collect data from all the patients in the hospital on 2,000 or more units of vitamin D at the time of the epidemic.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=51913

http://tinyurl.com/qtsf5

bump – at 11:43

bump

pfwag – at 16:31

I’m not sure what this means but it is interesting:

EFFECTS OF DIETARY SUPPLEMENTATION OF FEEDLOT STEERS WITH VITAMINS E AND D3 ON LIVE PERFORMANCE, CARCASS TRAITS, SHELF-LIFE ATTRIBUTES AND LONGISSIMUS MUSCLE TENDERNESS http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/research/1999rr/11.htm

Anybody have any idea if liquid or dry Vitamin D will have a longer shelf life?

Dennis in Colorado – at 17:30

The “shelf-life” referred to in the OK State study was the shelf-life of the beef, not the vitamin. I don’t think there is any carryover message for us from that study, unless some descendents of the Donner party are SIPing with you.
The Vitamin D tablets I purchased today at Wal-Mart have a guaranteed freshness date of Jan 09.

spok – at 19:05

When I bought my vitamin D yesterday, they had Dry and soft gels. The soft gels expired Dec 07 and the dry expired Nov 08.

Is one better than the other?

Edna Mode – at 19:50

Here is a link to the NIH’s Dietary Supplement Fact Sheet: Vitamin D http://tinyurl.com/qbz4c

It answers many questions posed in this thread. Regarding dosages for kids vs. adults, while the IU recommendations are clearly below what is being debated here, if you look at the ratio of what is recommended for children vs. adults, you can extrapolate appropriate dosages at higher levels. At least IMHO you can. Other than my CPR certificate, I have no med training. Buyer beware.

That said, the daily intake recommendation is identical for everyone from birth through age 50. Ages 51–70 it doubles. 71+ it triples.

So, please all, check my logic. I have a horrible head cold so may be totally out in left field on this, but I don’t think so.

Klatu – at 19:53

Thanks Edna, you are a trooper!

Dennis in Colorado – at 19:57

Looks good, Edna. Thanks!

17 September 2006

Edna Mode – at 18:04

You’re welcome Klatu and Dennis. Do you both think my logic works?

18 September 2006

spok – at 12:46

With the price of vitamin D being so low and the benifits so great, I can’t find a reason to not take 2,000 units of vitamin D every day.

Thanks to everyone for nailing this one down.

20 September 2006

beehiver – at 11:56

The recently published article “Epidemic influenza and vitamin D” has free full text available online here.

Page 4 has a section titled “Mechanism of action of vitamin D”. It says in the third paragraph (references are in brackets):

“Perhaps most importantly, three independent research groups have recently shown that 1,25(OH)2D dramatically stimulates genetic expression of antimicrobial peptides (AMP) in human monocytes, neutrophils, and other human cell lines [43–45]. These endogenous antibiotics, such as defensins and cathelicidins, directly destroy invading microorganisms [46]. AMP display broad-spectrum antimicrobial activity, including antiviral activity, and have been shown to inactivate the influenza virus [47–49]. Not only do neutrophils, macrophages, and natural killer cells secrete AMP, but epithelial cells lining the upper and lower respiratory tract secrete them as well, where they play a major role in pulmonary defense [50,51].”

Please note that 1,25(OH)2D is vitamin D3.

I’ve not had time to check the additional references yet, and will cross-post this to the Cytokinic Dysregulation thread in case there is interest there.

21 September 2006

Torange – at 07:05

Can D3 be bought without ws prescription?

Dennis in Colorado – at 09:33

Torange – at 07:05 Can D3 be bought without ws prescription?

Yes. One example at:
http://www.americannutrition.com/store/now_foods/NF0365.html

beehiver – at 10:01

Hi everyone, I made a slight mistake in nomenclature in my post yesterday at 11:56 when I said: Please note that 1,25(OH)2D is vitamin D3.

I should have said that vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) is converted to 1,25(OH)2D (the bio-available form) once it is ingested.

This information might help to answer AnnieB’s question above (16 Sept at 00:32). There are other pharmaceutical synthetic forms, but vit D3 as cholecalciferol is commonly available as a supplement without a prescription.

I have gathered some abstracts from references in the article I posted about yesterday, and will condense some of that information and post it here later today. It seemed especially interesting that vit D stimulates production of anti-microbial peptides (proteins)…these are the AMPs…and that they can kill or inactivate the influenza virus. I am particularly keen to follow up on this in view of the report from the doctor at the psychiatric hospital, who reported people in his ward (and taking vitamin D) experienced no influenza in spite of an explosive outbreak at the hospital. What seemed further significant was the observation that his patients had mingled with those from the other wards, yet did not get sick.

23 September 2006

Chesapeake – at 19:13

I take Citracal, a calcium supplement for osteoporosis, it contains vitamin D3 to help asorb the calcium. 400 IU

30 September 2006

DemFromCT - close thread – at 15:07
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