Is anyone else concerned with nuclear tests that N.Korea is threatening to do in the immediate future? Could this lead to a possible World War 3? This whole situation scares the crap out of me. I have been preparing for a pandemic and been a lurker on this site for awhile now. I made the comment to my husband last night that I was so thankful for the stockpiling we’ve done because right now this situation in N.Korea seems to be more of an imminent threat than anything else right now.
roadranger – at 02:29 we all are concerned, lots of things could go wrong, just keep staying prepared for anything & still enjoy life.
Oh and by the way, welcome! Glad you came out of the shadows!
Roadranger. Thanks. You have raised an important issue but not necessarily for the threat of nuclear warfare but of ‘biological warfare’ of sorts.
The two countries of the world that I suspect are most likely to be ground zero for an H5N1 avian flu pandemic would be China and North Korea…
…North Korea is a neighbour and allie of China. Economic and Agricultural ties have been close, China has sent left over food supplies etc. to North Korea…which means both countries must have hidden outbreaks of H5N1…
…at least we know what is going on in Indonesia and Thailand and Vietnam…
…China and North Korea, concerning disclosure, are and will continue to be a black hole…
…I would not be surprised to hear of a large human die-off that crosses the border to China first and then on to the rest of the world.
The only worry I have is the US response,,,,face it, the US is creating more enemies every day with its arrogance and attitude.
This scares me enough to keep me awake at night. My daughter is leaving Wednesday to visit her husband in S Korea on the Kusan Airforce base for 2 weeks.
Danger Will Robinson! Danger!
Lurker Martha - I can see why you’d be awake at night, with your daughter being so close to the root of such turmoil. But - they test the missiles with distance. Is that any comfort? And S.Korea is h5n1 alert. Tell her to eat Kim Chee every day. Months ago there was an msm blurb recounting antiviral properties of kim chee.
South Korea just announced that North Korea tested a nuke.
Yep, Drudge & FoxNews both reporting, but Fox saying it is NOT confirmed yet & they are trying to do so, but reporting what they’re hearing only as non-confirmed at this time.
Just read on CNN that they are reporting that they have successfully tested a nuclear weapon and that there is no radioactive leakage.
OH MY
Wonder what the world’s leaders are gonna say about this in the morning.
They’re gonna say, “you shouldn’ta done that, I’m gonna tell”
I believe the wording from the americans was “It will be a very bad day for them.”
This is another “hangfire”, the danger is not now. Even odds that whenever a terrorist nuke blows in the U.S. or Israel it will have a N. Korean “signature”.
North Korea has nothing to sell but counterfeit dollars, drugs, AND plutonium and/or extra nukes.
They were evil bastards from the get-go. Nobody made them that way. Evil exists.
S. Korea is picking up seismic activity of 3.58.
Don’t think Condoleeza will be getting a lot of sleep tonight!
S. korea has just raised their military alert level
Lisa: This is THE FIRST time in history that N. Korea has tested a NUCLEAR weapon!! This is not a missile test. This is BIGGGG!
“If you do that again, we will warn you some more!”
Yeah it sounds like they have gone to DefCon2. Think the reaction now really depends on what China and Japan will do, not so much what the US may want to do. It does bare watching.
I do believe it’s time for a top-off of preps, gang!
One possible outcome might be an “accident” in the NK weapons dump……. The fallout would be bad, but better there than here, sez I.
I don’t think Japan or China are steering. If the south gets uppity and starts something, it will flare beyond what China or/and Japan can control.
BullRun: Have you sat down and read all the instructions for your survey meters and tested them?? Do you have the D cell batteries connected?
I don’t think it’s the South that will start something. More likely to be China and Japan. Many in the South have family in the North.
I do not believe that this is a signal to top off preps, withdraw or do anything else rash (except make sure your fels supplies are reasonably high).
there will be much chest thumping and sabre rattling, but that’s about it. I think China will be the most exercised of the neighbors, and you frankly don’t want to be getting them riled up.
The price of gold has risen about 2 bucks an ounce since the news hit a while ago, not a very violent reaction given that it is the Hong Kong exchange that is open at this moment.
Watchful waiting is called for, and react only if things look like they are going sideways to down more quickly than usual.
Nemo - I do not have the D cells installed, nor my dosimeters zeroed at this time. Perhaps I am to relaxed, but I would rather save the adrenaline for when it is actually verifiably required.
Eccles: I agree. It’s certainly not time to withdraw or do any rash. Topping off for me means loading up on TP and other paper products. I certainly wouldn’t go nuts and spend like crazy though. Time to watch and listen closely, though.
China is the 1000 pound gorilla in the area. China had asked them not to do this and warning them of dire consequences if they did. We need to watch China not the US.
Japan’s military is not capable, currently, to engage in a knock down/drag out. China won’t do anything to it’s neighbor. The south will be the ones to watch but I agree with Eccles and what I said earlier, more warnings, more ‘condemnations’, etc. I am NOT running to Walmart tonight.
I just by coincidence decided to sit down yesterday and read the instructions and put in the D cell and monkey with them a bit. Glad I did. They aren’t as self-intuitive as I thought. Found out my dosimeter charger light bulb doesn’t work. Doesn’t make a huge difference because the bulb isn’t required if you have another light source to see if the dosimeters are zeroed out. But I wouldn’t want to read these instructions when there IS a panic situation at hand. It’s nice to sit back with a glass of tea and do it calmly.
I think chest thumping is the most likely too. But you never know. It won’t keep me from sleeping tonight. But I will be keeper Fox on in the background when I get up in the morning.
gieger counter Nemo????
Nemo - I did the Read-rinse-repeat exercise with them several years ago. I guess a refresher wouldn’t be too uncalled for. But I’ll wait for morning.
On the fence and leaning – at 00:21 The South will not do anything. The North has sufficient artillery ready to fire that they can destroy everything from Osan North, to include Seoul in about 20 Minutes. That would be half of their population. The Japanese Military is about 750K strong, very well trained and highly capable. That they do not have a military is the biggest joke in military circles. China has just been slapped in the face by the North and the North has so much as told China that there is nothing that they can do. Not a smart thing to do.
Lurker Martha 11:17, I don’t know but I imagine your daughter won’t be going over there any time soon.
ONTFAL: (Fence) yes, survey meters are the yellow box like geiger counters like you might have seen in Jericho. Some of us freaks have them as well as NukAlert keychains and potassium Iodate pills. This is just a good time to test out that equipment again. A nasty little reminder of the world we live in.
I think Japan doesn’t have a Navy, but they certainly do have a military.
Rep. Mark Kirk from Illinois is calling for stark sanctions! Oh boy— we’ll cut off their supply of green M&M’s now!!
Yeah, right!
NEMO: “Some of us freaks have them”
HA! Some of us (like ME) are a bit jealous about NOT having one. I like all of the toys. I think they are awesome, I would love to have one but I am hopeful that they won’t be needed anytime soon.
Well heres hoping they wont let her go… I made a small BOB for her with a nano mask, gloves, hand cleaner and iodine pills.
She just spoke to her DH and he didn’t know anything about the test,, he had slept threw it.
USGS detected a 4.2 tremor, as opposed to the S. Korean detection of a 3.58. Seismic scales of exponential. A 4 is ten times greater than a 3.0, I believe. Eccles? Is this right?
NEMO – at 00:34 The Japanese navy is mostly missile frigates and a few light cruisers along with a good size destroyer fleet. No Air craft carriers and only a few subs. But what they do have is first rate and could taken on a similar size force from the US and I would not take any bets on the winner.
Saw on Fox News that China has called for the North to return to the 6 Party talks. From the wording, sounded like an ultimatum to me. Could be wrong but the Chinese are really PO’ed.
Eccles: what is “fels supplies”? Being I don’t know, it’s probably something “else” I don’t have. ~sigh~
Thanks Anon_451! Glad to have the info.
Martha, IF the base elevates it’s alert level you may see family members coming back. Doubt they will want more civilians visiting. Best of luck to you and yours. He may have slept through it but he will probably be getting less sleep in the days to come.
Nemo - The richter scale is indeed exponential. It is conceivable that both of those readings are correct. Seismic waves travel over multiple paths and at different depths, and until a number of stations worldwide have had a chance to receive and process the data, then the numbers should be considered for order of magnitude only. I son’t know whether the guys that have the real answers will be telling us anything anytime soon, but some Geo-geeks at some universities should get something out pretty soon.
My military kid got back from the Korean war games in September. He just told me the South would be more than happy “to trounce the north’s ass” if we would just get out of their way. He spent lots of time with the Koreans in a deep secret war room and was interested to hear what their opinions were. I thought the south was less interested, but he just corrected me.
That would be scary having China POed with you. So much for going to bed early. A little excitement tonight.
I’ll go put on a pot of coffee for us!
EnoughAlready-
You know, Fels Naptha soap for laundry (like when you soil your shorts).
Actually, I was attempting to type fuels, but my skeletor-like fingers sometimes don’t type accurately enough.
Did you notice that the new, possibly, secretary of the UN is South Korean. The votes not done yet but…. That could add something to the equation.
I think my PPF just went to DefCon2: Wary mode.
Did I say this wasn’t going to keep me up tonight? Liar! Nemo is a Liar!!
Bush is expected to make a statement yet tonight. And another in the morning. Should be….bland.
Has anybody read Caspar Weinberger’s book, “The Next War”? We just read the Korean part a couple weeks back. Not a pretty scenario for sure.
Just for a bit of humor: My hubby pointed out that my name here is Omen spelled backwards. Whooopsss!
So, omen, ya got anything you want to tell us? Just caught the Korean News- Think I’m going to be up for a bit….
I guess I’ll have a cup. I was planning on turning in at a decent hour tonight…
Green Mom, what does the Korean news say?
Oh, sorry, I meant the news coming out of North Korea regarding their nuclear test. Didn’t realise my post looked like I was seeing an actual news source from Korea-I’m just sitting here flipping back and forth between FOX and CNN.
Nope. If my son knows more, he can’t tell me. So I’m just watching like everyone else. Think chest thumping will be profuse, but that’s about it for now. They are saying the test was pretty weak. Smaller than Nagasaki.
Japan’s prime minister has just arrived (or is going to arrive shortly) in S. Korea to discuss the situation with the folks in the south.
I wonder how many megatons it takes to burn up BF virus.
Have you seen Drudgereport.com? S. Korean stock market heading down…
S. Korea President to confer with Bush by phone about the event soon.
It’s a good thing the Japanese and Chinese markets were closed for a holiday. Will allow things to stabilize a bit before they open back up.
CNN: “We’re getting reports that Chinese military is moving towards N. Korea, can you confirm that?” Guest: “No, I can’t”
Where did those first reports come from?
okay. Not panicing at all. Troop movement can be seen as severe chest thumping I believe? Gulp.
On the fence and leaning – at 01:19 That was the Japanese military the was moving “CNN unconfirmed reports” Japanese prime minister is in the South at the movement, foreign minister was on CNN. Was listening to the South Korean military in the Back ground they are really stepping up the pace a bit.
Just a side note, We know that Israel, South Africa and Brazil all have nukes but have never tested them. I have often wondered if the Japanese have them as well. Know that the could if they wanted to just can not confirm that they do.
Anon_451 – at 01:37 make that moment not movement
Ok everyone, let’s sip our coffee/tea and try to stay calm.
<enza makes note to self to add potassium iodide tabs to preps>
NEMO – at 00:59
Bush is making a statement tonight… like this time of night? And morning… as when normal people are waking up?
On the fence and leaning – at 01:15
I’ve got drudge up, too!
China wants everyone to come to the Olympic games in 2008, don’t worry, they will take care of N. Korea. Can be seen like a bad child, mommy is going to spank it. The standoff is, if we do anything to N. Korea, China will take over Taiwan. So we will let them handle it.
Yup. They said sometime tonight and then again in the morning. It may be just a statement that is read rather than him in front of cameras.
Drudge has been rather slow lately. Not really keeping up they he used to.
CNN is using CNN International right now.
(How can anyone breathe in that pea soup that passes for air in Beijing?)
Okay, the coffee is kicking in now. Time to go night-night. (What can I say? Coffee makes me sleepy.) Sounds like the US is starting to say: It was pretty small and wimpy. Not sure if we should really taunt the little creep.
Enough Already: This guy is standing up up a pedestal and pulling at his tiny Korean pud. He’s full of sh**. Relax.
Now they are seeing it was much smaller than the Hiroshima bomb.
Now they are saying it was much smaller than the Hiroshima bomb.
To add to my comments above-The other effect of this test will be South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan all dusting off their plans for creating nuke deterrents. That is why China is so mad, besides being dissed. China props that little tin-pot regime up with fuel and food for their own purposes, and then N. Korea ignores them and takes action that will create more formidable opponents on their eastern flank.
When Iran does its test in a few years all of the other technically capable Mideastern countries will be following the script above.
The danger lies in the future. Every country in the world that has the technical ability to have a nuke WILL have a nuke. More nuke stuff in the hands of unsteady owners means that the chance of some of this getting into the hands of terrorists goes up. And there is an increased likelihood that a war such as was averted a few years back between India and Pakistan in which nukes would have been used will occur.
Sometime within ten years terrorists will do the deed or we will have a “minor” nuclear exchange between lesser players on the world stage.
Nuclear Proliferation has arrived.
Medical Maven – at 05:55
That is why China is so mad, besides being dissed.
I disagree. China is one of our real enemies. They know what they are doing. They have been encouraging and giving aid to NK for a reason.
Wouldn’t the international community be relieved if China did it a favor by invading North Korea and securing the nukes? China has already amassed troops on the Korean border to “prevent refuges from entering China”.
If China did such a thing what would be the world’s reaction? Praise? Or Boycott? We basically couldn’t do anything about it.Whadda u think?
Nemo-
I always have my meters zeroed and ready to use, all 5 sets of them. I check and change batteries quarterly.
MM- Proliferation has been here for a while. Plenty of nations have not tested their nukes, however. Now we get to see the results of proliferation. Yet another reason to be glad I’ve made preparations.
As regards the LD100 for virii, it’s extremely high. Don’t recall exactly but it’s many thousands of roentgens. Nukes won’t kill the virus outright. They will however kill the hosts much more readily…..
THe thing to remember about NK is that they are basically a one man show. One assassin is all it would take to solve this problem. It would not surprise me if the Chinese do that and install a new more compliant puppet who agreed to turn over their nukes to the Chinese for some facesaving reason….
I was thinking along the lines that China might would be encouraged to go in and stomp N. Korea and do us all a favor. Then they could keep it, (historical precedence there already) and/or split it with S. Korea. As long as S. Korea, Japan, Russia and the U.S. all agreed on this issue then I would think China would be fairly happy to do the deed. I suspect many of the N. Korean soldiers would defect as quick as they could.
But…what is likely to happen is just louder saber rattling and an escalation of rhetoric.
Here are a couple of past news articles. The first reveals the thoughts of a past secretary of defence and his assist secretary previous to the N. Korean missile tests that took place earlier this year. The second discusses Chinese troop movements back in 2003 which were thought to have been conducted as a deterant to N. Korea continuing to develop a nuclear weapon. Do these attitudes indicate that we may see some type of strike on N. Korea? I don’t know. (Does this have anything to do with bird flu? No, but historically disease and war have gone hand-in-hand so it might in an tangential sort of way affect development and distribution of a pandemic flu virus.) The problem with wars is that they never turn out the way folks seem to think they will.
If Necessary, Strike and Destroy
North Korea Cannot Be Allowed to Test This Missile
By Ashton B. Carter and William J. PerryThursday, June 22, 2006; Page A29
<snip>
We should not conceal our determination to strike the Taepodong if North Korea refuses to drain the fuel out and take it back to the warehouse. When they learn of it, our South Korean allies will surely not support this ultimatum — indeed they will vigorously oppose it. The United States should accordingly make clear to the North that the South will play no role in the attack, which can be carried out entirely with U.S. forces and without use of South Korean territory. South Korea has worked hard to counter North Korea’s 50-year menacing of its own country, through both military defense and negotiations, and the United States has stood with the South throughout. South Koreans should understand that U.S. territory is now also being threatened, and we must respond. Japan is likely to welcome the action but will also not lend open support or assistance. China and Russia will be shocked that North Korea’s recklessness and the failure of the six-party talks have brought things to such a pass, but they will not defend North Korea. In addition to warning our allies and partners of our determination to take out the Taepodong before it can be launched, we should warn the North Koreans. There is nothing they could do with such warning to defend the bulky, vulnerable missile on its launch pad, but they could evacuate personnel who might otherwise be harmed. The United States should emphasize that the strike, if mounted, would not be an attack on the entire country, or even its military, but only on the missile that North Korea pledged not to launch — one designed to carry nuclear weapons. We should sharply warn North Korea against further escalation.
>snip>
Ashton B. Carter was assistant secretary of defense under President Bill Clinton and William J. Perry was secretary of defense. The writers, who conducted the North Korea policy review while in government, are now professors at Harvard and Stanford, respectively.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/21/AR2006062101518.html
China deploys 150,000 troops on North Korean border Epoch Times 9/17/2003
HONG KONG - Hong Kong’s Sunday Morning Post cited an unidentified security source in China as saying five divisions of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA), roughly 150,000 troops, had been deployed in Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture, bordering North Korea, since last month
<snip>
Hong Kong’s Chinese-language Sing Tao Daily has earlier reported that three PLA units — each with 50,000 troops and including armoured divisions — had been deployed along China’s 1,400-kilometre border with North Korea. The paper quoted a Chinese foreign ministry source as saying that the move had been aimed at deterring North Korea from continuing its nuclear build-up and to pressure Pyongyang into holding talks on the nuclear crisis with the United States.
<snip>
LMWBR at 8:00-I agree that proliferation of nukes has been here for awhile, but I think it is now reaching that critical point-of-no-return level at which the risks go up exponentially.
Okieman-I think even a hardball country like China would find difficulties in swallowing the basket case that is North Korea. Everybody saw the difficulties that West Germany had in assimilating East Germany (and it still hasn’t come off well). And truth be known, even many South Koreans would dread reunification even under the most favorable of circumstances.
What they all fear in the area is an implosion with a massive outpouring of strife, refugees, and contraband (nuclear and all else). The Hermit Kingdom is a pot of poison full of stunted bodies and stunted minds ruled by evil men.
If China ever does to cut off N. Korea’s fuel and food to create an implosion, they will have all of their ducks in a row. They will assure that the contagion flows south towards the other Korea. And then they will come in and pick up the pieces after the majority are dead.
Ok, may I suggest that if folks want to chat about N Korea they please find another web site? This has nothing to do with bird flu and will only serve to slow the wiki down.
MM-
the Middle Kingdom thinks strategically in terms of buffers. By causing an NK implosion they would be giving up that buffer, which is one reason they have not done so despite considerable reason, so far. I will be surprised if they change policy at this point; I do expect them to change NK leaders, however. A regime change is not without abundant historical precedent……
LMWBR at 10:19-Sounds like a good scenario to me. Hope that when they put the old “double-tap” to Kim Il Jong that he knows that it is coming.
And an implosion would be bad for business and could hinder China’s breakneck pace to overtake the U.S. and to push it out of the Pacific basin.
“And an implosion would be bad for business and could hinder China’s breakneck pace to overtake the U.S. and to push it out of the Pacific basin.”
I have to agree with Mods PLEASE close this thread – at 10:18
What at all does any of this have to do with bird flu?
Are we there yet-I was just going with the flow and all of the intelligence reports that I have read.
I’m afraid I think the flow has gone far enough. The immediate will-they-or-won’t-they mystery is over and a discussion of the fallout from this (pun intended) really belongs somewhere else.
Closed.
Medical Maven – at 10:39
“Are we there yet-I was just going with the flow and all of the intelligence reports that I have read.”
But this has nothing to do with bird flu.
I mean no offense, but when we post threads like this the wiki ends up looking like a therapy/self help group for anxious people.
If the issue is not flu related, it doesn’t belong here. There are other current events sites one can go to and talk about N. Korea, etc. if one wishes to discuss current events, etc.