What issues/problems are the ones that keep coming back to you, and keep you up at night? Maybe a forum to address will be mutually beneficial in invoking the hive mind. Issues can be big or small.
For instance, one of my recurring SMALL worries is unseemly weight gain from excessive eating of preps while under pandemic stress. If my neighbors are low on food, and DH and I are seen rosy and well fed, will that create problems? (I believe that sharing is very, very important — if NOTHING else, how will we live afterwards if we didn’t help each other. Implementation of this ‘helping’ is problematic, but hopefully can be made real when it is needed but I digress.)
Some others of mine, for example (not necessarily in order of importance):
Keeping warm in winter. Have gas heat, so depend on availability of both electricity and gas. Have fireplace with insert, need firewood. Have some other possibilties I’m working on as well.
Will we have enough to eat ?
Sufficient water supply. Our climate is wet in winter, dry in summer. Have stored drinking water for a while, need plan for afterwards, in case a longer duration is needed.
What if I’m overlooking something important in my preps?
How do I deal with civil disturbance (have been through many different mental scenarios around this one, pls there have been multiple threads on this topic before). Everyone has to figure out their answer to this one. For me, it depends on how the situation develops. I will not shoot my neighbors. Maybe need to consider self defense in other situations. TBD.
The prospect of cooking EACH meal, vs cooking once every other day or so (DH and I alternate, plus have frequent ‘pick nights; of eating leftovers or foods we like that the other does not). If power is out or intermittent, relying on leftovers becomes a much less viable option.
Activities for adults (children’s activities already covered in another thread). Normally I spend a large amount of time in front of the computer. If that access is limited because of connectivity and/or power issues, how do stay happy and healthy (other than cooking 1.5 meals per day, with DH cooking the other half)? Reading, survival-related activities, print out Sudoku puzzles in advance … ?
What are your thoughts? What am I missing?
blackbird,
You are singing the concerns of many, me included. Glad for your song. Link here
blackbird at 01:19 ..Sufficient water supply. Our climate is wet in winter, dry in summer. Have stored drinking water for a while, need plan for afterwards, in case a longer duration is needed.
RE: Same here. Like hurricanes droughts are unpredictable since this is the first summer I have ver experienced this dry. I find myself wondering how much water will be needed if a pandemic occurs during a repeat of a summer year like this one. But unlike hurricanes I feel we will get a tornado warning instead of a Hurricane warning, with no time to prep for time sensitive last minute details.
All of those and more…primarily what happens if dh or I get ill (who will take care of the children?), and what happens if they get ill as well?
All the unknown variables are my main buggaboo - eg. if I knew for certain the power wold stay on, even if intermittently, I’d plan accordinglly. But, with so many possible outcomes and paths this thing could take it’s impossible to plan for all possibilites. I’m just trying to do my best and hope for the best.
Melanie, Ima, Laura, thanks for your comments. Humming Paul’s song in my head now. I’m on the left coast so it wasn’t as late here as the timestamp on the post above indicates. No excuse for the timing of this one, tho :)
Solutions and ways to approach the issues are welcome as well. For instance, I totally agree that the number of unknown variables increases the degree of difficulty in prepping. My response in food planning is to spread food preps across several different solutions, some of which overlap: some foods with a long shelf life (canned food, MREs), in addition to the ones I rotate through in the short term; some that require little or no additional water (Progresso Soups, other canned foods); some that require little or no cooking (MREs, trail mix, tuna fish, thermos cooking materials); some that are good in case of illness (canned broth, miso, instant rice, canned fruit) some that can be included in a bug-out bag (MREs, trail mix) lots of little snacks and taste bud relief such as bacon bits for variety
LauraB at 06:42. You’re absolutely right — illness is up there as a worry for me as well. It doesn’t have to be BF, could be just bad regular flu. Usually we don’t get sick at the same time. I’ve been getting better educated about treatment and preps for illness, and making decisions about how to deal with various sets of symptoms. In fact, this whole exercise has been a wake-up call to get my life more in line with my beliefs, but that’s probably material for another thread.
I have several collapsable water containers 7–8) & some rigid ones too (4 I think) and after that’s gone there’s a little lake near us — about a 5 minute walk downhill (when you’re not toting water).
So I WAS depending on the lake for extra water. I have added a step in between my little water containers and the lake though, because of comments here on fluwikie, I bought an 8′ inflatable pool, and 3 rolls of extreme duct tape to tape around the top of the inflatable ring to keep the birds from puncturing the inflatable ring & collapsing the whole thing. Now I have to worry about protecting the sides of the pool (can you tell I really don’t want to have to haul water back up the hill from our lake??)
I’ve found what I think I need — they make big foam puzzle pieces that make a room-sized mat and I think with 3 sets of those I could snap together something on the sides to keep the raccoons from damaging the sides of the pool and to protect the bottom of it as well!
I’m obviously obsessed with my delicate water supply issue…..too many things could go wrong even the lake since there are close to 2000 homes in neighborhoods around us that have access to that lake!!!
Another thing is that if I’m having to be responsible for every meal, how long will it be before we end up with some nutritional problem because I forgot to add to my preps some sort of fish oil or something else that I normally don’t use.
My other worry is that a lot of our preps are in duffle bags so that we can carry them with us if we have to leave…and there are things that are stored in the attic, and our pantry is there (an area we boxed in & cut through the air duct so it would be climate controlled) and we only have pull-down stairs right now — what if one of us was sick and the other one broke a leg and couldn’t get up to the attic for our survival food or manage to drag our duffles to the car with a broken leg? Then what would we do? Drive with a broken leg?
Obviously my mind is geared toward realizing the worst kind of minor disasters that would make SIP miserable, most of the issues would be ones that probably wouldn’t happen, but you can’t stop thinking about it.
For me it all falls into one category — we’re both nearing or at 50 years old, and there’s just the 2 of us and the fur-kids. If one of us gets sick, it’s up to the other one to stay well & treat the sick one, and how remote a chance is THAT that the second person would be able to stay healthy?
Where to start?
Probably the top of the list is general maintenance and keeping things running. Whatever food and water and meds we have are pretty much fixed commodities, if they aren’t enough there is not much I can do about that. Also, whether or not a family member gets ill is pretty much out of my control. However, if the equipment that I am counting on to make SIP somewhat more bearable quits functioning, will I have the necessary parts and knowledge to repair it? You can drive yourself crazy trying to anticipate every possible problem in this area.
I have tried to cover the basics - using lowest technology possible which provides greater flexibility under a variety of situations. I cannot address all possible problems or scenarios - but I can arm myself with good basic (again low tech) tools, and KNOWLEDGE (some useful references on a variety of topics) and then rely on my intelligence and intuition to solve each problem as they come forward.
The situation once presented will dictate what solutions are most appropriate. By keeping it simple, basic, and focussing on having the basic resources and tools on hand - you increase the odds that you will have flexible/adaptive options to address the myriad of problems that may arise.
I cannot BUY a solution to all my possible problems. I can INVEST in tools and knowledge which will help me SOLVE the problem.
I echo Hillbilly Bill’s concerns. In addition, I am very concerned about water supply as I am depending on my one and only generator to run the well pump. I don’t have the resources now to pay for adding a manual pump to the well.
The bottom line is that if the impact of any future pandemic is sufficiently disruptive to society to interrupt normal power and fuel for an extended period, there are very few of us who could continue to function indefinitely.
Like many, I have supplies for food/meds/heat for many months, but eventually you need outside resupply. I am not prepared for, nor will I prepare for a reversion to survival in the wilderness.
“I am not prepared for, nor will I prepare for a reversion to survival in the wilderness.”
I echo that sentiment. I’m just not going there.
Prescription medications. Two people very close to me require prescription eyedrops, but are only able to get them in 1 month increments. From what I understand, they could go blind without them.
Another person in my life has high blood pressure. I got a prescription for a blood pressure medication for myself, for something other than HBP. Rather than take them, I put them away just in case, but it’s only a 3 month supply. I don’t know if those pills will be any good when the time comes though. They could very well be expired.
Alcohol. The thought of taking care of up to 3 alcoholics has got me worried. I got some good advice about this on another thread, but when it comes down to it they’ll be here for the duration. I’m not much of a drinker, so I’m not very confident in my ability to provide them with enough booze to keep them where they belong. The last thing I want is a few drunks out looting the liquor store. I did stock up on the vitamins, but the beer thing is sort of baffling to me. Do I buy cans or bottles? What brand, or are they all pretty much the same? How long does beer stay good? Would hard alcohol be an acceptable substitute? I’m working on these questions, but it’s surprising to find out how much I do not know about drinking.
Strong painkillers. I’ve got vicodin, darvocet, and percocet because I have chronic pain issues, but how much should I save for storage? I don’t know how long they keep, and I really could use them at times, but I’m fearful that I might need them even more later. Plus, I’d be scared to give them to other people because it’s against the law, and you never know if they are allergic.
I don’t let any of it keep me awake nights. During waking hours though I’m preoccupied with heating and water concerns mostly.
HBB - *survival in the wilderness* Yea, I can’t wrap my mind around that either. That or a nuclear threat. It’s just too much.
A reversion to wilderness survival would be a piece of cake compared to my issues — family! Seriously, hubby and I are looking at hunting property near state land, I’ve just purchased a hunting gun (a HUGE step for me) and so on… wilderness survival, in progress, soon to be stamped “done.” (s) No, the real problem is family members, who I fully expect to be on my doorstep if things get bad. They do understand BF, but they are dependent people who know where the goods are (with me) and will head here as soon as McDonald’s closes. Seriously, they eat almost all fast food and an offer of dry rice and beans would probably be met with incredulity and anger, not gratitude. They have a teenager with behavioral issues who could eat what my children do in a week at a single sitting, and a younger child, also with behavioral issues. SIP together is out of the question. They also have lots of guns. The hunting property, in part, is to escape family as well as the highly populated are in which we live. I am scared, in a deep down to the bones kind of way. I am also very uncomfortable with the idea that I could leave family to die so mine could live. How can I live with that kind of thinking?
farm girl at 08:58- not having access to prescription medicine worries me, too. I want to stock up but my insurance won’t let me buy more than one month at a time. I’m not ready to risk buying from one of those online pharmacies but its something I think about.
Eccles, HB: wilderness survival . . . it never occurred to me but I think there’s only so much we can prepare for. But, if I were alone and had to survive in the wilderness (the “wilderness” of NJ, that is . . . ), I think my best chance would be to find other people in the same situation and try to form some kind of camp.
Most of my “concerns” are ones that I can resolve now; calculating how much water to have and then making arrangements to store it, saving money for the small generator and then figuring out where to put it (and its fuel) … those sort of things
The issue that concerns me the most is the possibility of large-scale civil unrest. I lived in Long Beach, CA during the Watts Riots in Los Angeles 40 years ago, so I was only 30–40 miles away from that. I saw what happened in New Orleans last year. I live in a much more rural setting now and I think people here will react differently but I cannot rely on that as a certainty.
I am equipped to defend my family, if necessary, but I cannot claim to be psychologically prepared to take someone’s life. I understand the sentiment of the gentle Quaker farmer (probably one of my ancestors) who is reputed to have confronted, with a shotgun, a burglar coming through a window, saying “Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world … but thee are standing where I am about to shoot.” Alas, I understand that is only a cute story and I won’t have the luxury of engaging an intruder in polite conversation. I am a pacifist, a gentle person, a retired nurse. It will disturb me greatly if I have to kill someone to protect my family. That part of my preparation troubles me deeply.
Thanks for listening (oops, wrong meeting…)
I have sent some opinion/informational articles to my local government/health department. I am hoping that this might facilitate prepping on their part to ensure that we have adequate water/electricity/etc supplies if TSHTF. I am hoping they will plan accordingly because it would really be a mess for all of us if our basic utilities were cut off. I am hoping to follow up with them shortly to see if they are getting the message. I have bought a MIOXX water purifier and am prepping to prepare for the worst case scenario but boy would it be nice not to have to worry about a fresh water supply! My husband is a hunter so we have means of protection, but I am with “blackbird” in that I am not going to shoot my neighbors! (I guess unless they were ready to shoot me first? What would I do?) We must stick together in this as much as we are able to at least retain our humanity.
I have had a hard time getting my husband into the prepping stages but slowly I see him bring in water, parmalat milk cases and put them in the bird flu area. The biggest concern I have after having food preps is home maintenence. Workers will be scarce in my opinion and all the stuff that needs to be done to your home should try to be done sooner than later. Here in Florida it can take weeks to get a workman to do the job and do it right. Just found out yesterday I need the whole house rewired. I think cocooning will be the style and you won’t feel good about anything if you are constantly worried about something going wrong.
I don’t lose sleep but I do think about prepping in the half hour or so it takes to get to sleep sometimes…
My main concerns are, Do I have enough?
Water, Food, Ammo - in that order.
I’ve largely skipped over the parts of FW dealing with getting sick, home treatment and have focused on the prepping. If I have enough of the 3 items above hopefully no one in the house will be exposed to risk of infection.
Northstar at 09:12 and Dennis in Colorado at 09:57
These are really tough questions. Dennis, you’re right that the actual prepping takes thought, $$ and energy but it’s relatively controllable (we do what we can, within each of our limitations).
Dealing with strangers or family who have potential to upset the applecart is much harder. The thread about ‘Coping with your emotions during a pandemic’ was helpful to me in understanding more about people’s reactions, including panic and denial.
I have a sense of how I want to be (and don’t want to be) in some of these situations but am not confident in my ability to carry out — there are too many external variables. Kind of like excluding teotwawki from active planning (I agree that’s out of my scope as well).
These are real, valid concerns. It’s worthwhile to explore them even if there aren’t good answers. I find that my response changes over time. Some days things make more sense than others. As long as it makes me uncomfortable, I’ll keep going back there to try to find resolution I can live with. In between my day job, actual prepping, wasting time on the computer playing bedazzled or text twist…
I had the benefit of watching (CBC-Canada)-The Nature of Things Part 1- “Cuba, the accidental revolution”. A brief summary is that it was a documentary about Cuba after 1989. At that time the Soviet Union collapsed and stopped providing nonrenewable resources to Cuba. At the time Cuba like most other countries had electricity, petro and the ability to house and feed its 11 million people. Once the Soviet Union pulled out they had no more petro basically. They had to go back to their lives of 30 to 50 years ago. It meant “manual labor” and well not mentioned it also meant poverty. With a year of the collapse the average Cuban’s caloric intake had dropped by one-third. It was eery to see all the old farm equipment just left where they were when they ran out of gas. It was eery to see the apartment buildings abandoned because they no longer had services. They now have 10,000 gardens throughout the country in every possible piece of land to feed the country. It is now done by man and oxen. They had to get the old timers to come out and teach the young ones how to garden this way. The gardens did look amazing but they did gloss over the back breaking work of the gardeners. Good gardeners apparently make 1000 pesos a month equal to what doctors make but I still think a huge percentage are living in extreme poverty. Part 2 might be on this Sunday (CBC).
I haven’t been able to visualize what my community would look like if BF caused an economic collapse. This gave me some ideas and while I think the documentary was about how a country survived believe me this is not a pretty picture. This is why our ancestors lived to maybe 40 or 50 years if they were lucky. Now I’ve seen it I’m thankful we have land. I haven’t put a garden in for many years but to survive we would. Fuel for heating in a northern climate will make things more difficult but its doable. Water is a concern but I live about a couple miles from a major river. I guess the overall lesson I learned is I may not want things to change to that degree but we can cope and survive as well.
DoubleD at 08:44 The situation once presented will dictate what solutions are most appropriate. By keeping it simple, basic, and focussing on having the basic resources and tools on hand - you increase the odds that you will have flexible/adaptive options to address the myriad of problems that may arise. I cannot BUY a solution to all my possible problems. I can INVEST in tools and knowledge which will help me SOLVE the problem.
DoubleD, you have hit the nail on the head. You cannot anticipate all scenarios nor can you—even in today’s fully functioning society—buy a solution for all scenarios. I think the greatest service you can do for your family is to learn basic skills, equip yourself with low-tech tools that don’t rely on fossil fuels, and practice the skills you are acquiring. Gardening, canning, bread making, cooking from scratch, disconnecting from electronics.
My big worry is water as it seems to be with many. I, fortunately, have running water nearby, but disinfecting is a bugaboo.
If prescriptions are a worry, see if your insurance co. has a mail order Rx option. If no insurance, investigate other mail order Rx programs (but make sure you get in with a reputable one). Most of these companies permit (in fact, encourage) ordering a three-month supply so they can keep their shipping costs down. We have Anthem Blue Cross/Blue Shield. I can order three months worth (instant stockpile) and I only have to pay ONE CO-PAY! Our Rx costs have gone from nearly $1,200 per year to about $200 through the use of mail order and generics.
farm girl at 8:58
Regarding blood pressure meds, plan to feed these people VERY low salt diets. Low salt diets lowers blood pressure naturally, to the point that after 3 weeks or so, they may not need their meds, or a much smaller dosage. My dad is about 100 lbs overweight, doesn’t exercise, and when he lived with me and ate a low salt diet he went from 1–2 pills a day to half of one every two or three days.
Lay in some salt substitutes, such as no salt spice mixes. Paul Prudhomne makes one, or Mrs. Dash. Or get a lot of spices and make your own spice mix (much cheaper). Plan on using a LOT. Diced chilies help too. Also get low sodium salt,or Morton’s “Salt Substitute,” but be aware it’s full of potassium, which is bad for heart conditions. Use sparingly. You have to cook from scratch to get the salt out, but you’ll probably have to a lot anyway.
Also, drinking water lowers blood pressure - if somebody’s blood pressure is too high, make them drink 2 glasses of water and take it again. It will drop. Also helps lower blood sugar. Keep them drinking water all day long.
Regarding those with glaucoma meds, buy some “Refreshe” or similar artificial tears. They WILL NOT replace the meds, but if you run out, they will make the eyes more comfortable.
I noticed everybody is too delicate to attack this subject, so here goes:
Regarding the drunks, having lived with one I can say they will drink anything with alcohol in it no matter what it is. Beer drinkers are used to alcohol with a lot of water mixed in (low proof). Don’t encourage them to drink the hard stuff if they’re happy with beer. Ask a bartender, or somebody at a liquor store such as “Liquor Barn,” if you need some guidance. Aim for the lowest proof there is. Find out how many servings each drunk typically drinks and try to get as close to that as you can in your preps.
Wine might be your best choice - since it keeps well and is a much lower proof than whiskey. For alcohol content - 1 glass wine = 1 beer roughly. Also it can be made into a wine cooler, or maybe a punch. Look for recipes. You just want to give them enough booze so they feel like they’re drinking and are happy - don’t pickle them with hard stuff. They’ll be more manageable. Try to keep them busy if you can - not in front of the TV or wherever they usually drink.
Your main problem is going to be hiding it from them so they don’t go on a binge and drink it all in a week. I’d hide it in a number of different places, show them one hiding place (not now), say that’s all there is and get them to devise their own plan to ration it. Put a lock on it, but you need somebody to back you up. Somebody large. If they get their minimum, they will probably be ok, but can’t ration themselves. You may have to give them a little extra every once in a while as a treat. Maybe Saturday night, or special occasions.
If you run out: even the nicest alcoholic can become very enraged if they can’t get their stuff. Don’t try to stop them from looting or whatever they have to do. You could get hurt. Keep in mind, an alcoholic without booze is going through drug withdrawal. Would you get between a heroin addict and heroin? Also, they’ll be after your painkillers, so hide them and never mention them.
You’ve probably already noticed this, but alcoholics have an addictive personality, and not only are they compulsive about alcohol use, but also cigarettes, cookies, potato chips, and snacks in general. They have very little self control and can’t have just one of anything. If they get anxious, they’re even worse. The one I lived with went through 3 week cycles - binge, remorse, anxious and irritable, binge again. Usually at “anxious and irritable,” he picked a fight to have an excuse to drink, so watch out for this. You may have to lock up all the food, other than a few snacks on the table, or they may binge their way through that as well. You sure have my sympathy.
My lovely Au Pair has come up with what is, to date, my main concern.
She’s Polish and her father is a professinal soldier in the Polish Army. Keep in mind that in the UK we do not have the right to have arms.
She told me that the biggest risk as she saw it, would be that if things REALLY get bad, those that have access to arms (police, armed forces etc) would use them to force their way into homes and loot them. She said she could see her dad doing it if it came down to his kids being fed or dying!!!!!!!!!
This thought had NEVER crossed my mind!!!!!!!!!! Is anyone else really scared now?
Thank goodness for the Second Amendment! In the US, as a law-abiding person I’ve never been afraid of the military or the police. Even if rogue armed people popped up during a pandemic, they probably don’t have more ammo than me.
LA Escapee at 11:31
Thank you so much for the practical advice! I normally don’t use salt in my cooking, and my immediate family prefers this, but I hadn’t thought about the preferences of those who might be staying with me. They all tend to dump salt on their food during the holidays. I’ll pick up salt substitute on my next shopping trip, and then figure out how to make some from scratch.
I am so appreciative of the advice for alcoholics as well. It’s very good to know that wine is a better choice than whiskey. I was getting a little worried because I found out that they don’t like the 3 year old beer I keep in the fridge for get togethers. Apparently there is something wrong with it (besides the fact that I bought Corona that is.) I have one more stupid question about wine that maybe someone can help with: Should I buy the good wine or the cheap stuff? Does it matter if I’m just pouring it into a drunk? Of course I WILL buy a few bottles of good wine, just in case I decide to take up drinking, but do THEY need it?
I’ll make sure to buy eye drops as well. Hopefully the pharmacy won’t be closed for months on end, but you never know what will happen I guess.
Gallo in the gallon ought to do just fine. :-)
might I suggest, if other’s haven’t.. buy several wine kit’s (you can find them on ebay)
my biggest (prep-related) concerns incl: cooking w/out drawing attention to my preps, having to refuse to feed a neighbor, having heat, the pipes freezing.
farm girl at 14:33:
Are your glaucoma patients diabetics? If they are obese they may be. I’m not sure of the details, but apparently keeping the blood sugar consistently at the lower end of the proper range may help lower the pressure in the eyeballs (which is what causes the blindness). Diet plays a big part here. There are a lot of diabetic cookbooks that might help. I attended a diabetes seminar that was a big help - check your area.
Also, some of those glaucoma eyedrops require refrigeration - others don’t. You might want to find out ahead of time which they are.
Regarding the beer - it went stale! Beer (and ideally, wine) is supposed to be stored under 55 degrees and in the dark to protect from UV rays, which is why beer bottles are often dark brown. (Same is true of spices - best stored in an opaque container or in the dark to make them last).
After surfing the net, looks like inexpensive beer ideally stores 3–6 months, 1 year at the outside. Cheap wines about 2–3 years. The colder and darker it is, the longer they’ll last. Red wines keep longer than white. Also, wine is ok served at room temperature, warm beer is usually considered undesirable. For wine info, try: wines.com. One site suggested storing wine and beer in paper bags to keep it “in the dark.” Also, in an area free from vibration, not on top of the fridge where it’s light and hot.
My advice about the drunks will probably get me banned.
It involves the second amendment as well! Tell them not to come to your property under any circumstances. You can’t afford to risk your immediate family on people like that.
OR Tell them to drop 100 lbs., get sober, clean up, go to AA or don’t bother showing their heads lest they meet the wrong end of your shotgun!!!
Water is a concern here. We have several alternatives, including our own small ponds, but during a drought like we had last year,it is still a worry.
Our most recent thought has been that our neighbors, a mile and a half down the road, have a “pond” (if you call 6 acres of deep water a pond!) that we could get drinking water from. The issue is transportation.
We have decided the most effective way to carry heavy water barrels would be to put them in a pony cart and have our small arabian pull it. There is one quite steep hill she would have to pull, so even then we might need to do several smaller trips each week, rather than one larger one. But we feel getting her cart trained and purchasing a smallish cart from the Amish Auction house in our area would be a fun hobby now that all of our neighbors would greatly appreciate later on. A community building skill if you will.
Crazy American Lady in the Village, I agree with anonymous at 12:10. Here in the States, ordinary citizens still have the right to bear arms (for the most part, anyway, except in some large crime-ridden metro areas). There could always be a few bad apples on a police department who’d try this, but in most localities they’d be taking their life in their hands by doing it. There are an awful lot of Americans who are armed, and a good number of those are WELL armed. Our Second Amendment is what makes all the other Amendments possible :-)
Nemo at 16:32: Ha ha ha ha ha! My first laugh of the day!
I wouldn’t want to walk in Farm Girl’s shoes, but unfortunately we ladies sometimes are stuck having to save the world, like it or not. After all, nobody else could do it.
(My chauvinstic remark of the day).
We live near Lake Michigan so there’s a lot of water, but I’m afraid of running into other, needy, people while on a water run. I wonder if pulling water containers on a flying-saucer type sled would work on the sand, and a Radio Flyer wagon when we got to the pavement. Here’s where having a community would help: a group fetching water would be safer and we wouldn’t have to leave the house(s) empty. Now my stomach is churning at possible ways this could turn out. The lake as a source would be useless once ice started forming at the shore, though. Although farther away there are piers where the boats put in, near the dog beach, and where the ducks hang out. Yuck. That’s enough anxiety for now; I’m shoving the other topics deeper into the cave.
Those ducks will quickly fall onto someone’s spit (the kind that rotates over a fire - that is!)
People in your area have been doing without running water for much longer than they have been living with it— although the population has gone through the roof. An ice auger can be used to cut through the layer of ice and you can use a pump like a water drum pump to pump it up through the ice and into some gallon containers. Lots of ways to outsmart that old ice flow.
LA Escapee at 16:46 : I AM a lady! Okay, maybe not. Like my husband always says: “That’s no lady, that’s my wife!”-
We gals do have to save the world- sometimes that means cleaning out the gene pool so others can survive- especially our own families.
You guys are so funny! I can’t shoot ‘em because I’m related to them, so that’s out. For some odd reason, I imagine it would be less likely for me to unload a rifle (but I wouldn’t rule out DD’s BB gun) into the FIL. No matter how many DWI’s he gets, even the courts can’t seem to convince him to dry up, so my odds aren’t the greatest. I’m probably stuck with the other two as well, but I’m learning to be okay with that. I just have to work a little harder to find ways to make it a success. Nothing is impossible, right?
Beer goes stale. Well that probably goes a long way towards explaining the faces people make when they drink beer at my house. I guess I’ll be stocking up on cheap red wine.
The people with glaucoma (that sounds like what they have) are a little fatter than they should be, but neither one is a diabetic. I think one prescription does go in the fridge, but don’t know about the other one.
Thank you all for giving me such great help with the things that worry me. I have to confess, these problems didn’t really keep me awake (nothing does), but now I have all sorts of information to work with. Now I’m going cruising on the site LA recommended, and ebay for some wine kits.
The waves freeze in irregular growing humps and get undercut by the water, so it looks risky to go out there. Sometimes people fall through. With luck, there will be snow for a lot of the time. Or with teamwork, a channel can be dug before a freeze so water would flow into the beach. Maybe that’s too utopian. But thanks for the nudge and ideas, NEMO.
NEMO: But we feel getting her cart trained and purchasing a smallish cart from the Amish Auction house in our area would be a fun hobby now that all of our neighbors would greatly appreciate later on
Have you asked your Arabian if it’s a hobby he wants to take up?? :-)
As for bearing arms, there is a new law that states that in an emergency they can’t take your guns away from you. I don’t know where I heard that, probably on FoxNews since I camp out there some during the day, but it was just a few days ago that I heard it had been passed. I remember them mentioning that removing arms from people in New Orleans left them sometimes in the dark & defenseless and the powers that be didn’t want that to happen again, I guess.
Im-workin-on-it at 17:28 Have you asked your Arabian if its a hobby he wants to take up?? :-)
She has a high desire to please, so I think she would very much enjoy the extra “face time” she would get. At least she would work better than the llama who is nearly impossible to catch, and the goats couldn’t pack enough water to make it worth the long trek.So the Arabian is our best bet, especially when she would be able to drink some cool fresh water as a reward on either end of the job!
That sounds like a workable PLAN, NEMO!! :-)
We plan to share with neghbors, if needed. I think a “community stew pot” or soup pot will be best. Everyone can bring a can of veggies or potatoes or onion & we’ll put it all in a crab-cooker. (For non-Maryland people, that is a large pot!).
Heard a neat guy talking at ~3a.m. a few weeks ago on WMAL who was tolking about stocking up & preparing. He’d moved away from California city area to Texas rural area. He said he had a gun “for possible coyotes” . . .
One of my primary worries is what happens if the electricity is out, and that impacts the sewer system. I think I could deal with a lot of things, but raw sewage coming into the house instead of going out would, I think, be a bit much. DH, who is much better than I am at talking face to face to people about mechanical solutions to things, so far has just flat out refused to bother with talking to anyone - and it’s the passive/aggressive type refusal - oh sure, I’ll do that (but it never gets done).
The other things that worry me are things that would necessitate our leaving home - fire, looters, etc. We’re prepared to defend it, but if it’s burning down around you, there’s not much to do. And yes, we have fire extinguishers. Still, I worry about it. We don’t really have anywhere else to go.
bugladyJ,
Read the story of Stone Soup.
I’m workin on it, here’s a newspaper story (dated today, 08/02) about the legislation to bar confiscation of citizen’s firearms during an emergency. The article does not make clear whether this is now actually law or whether there is still something else that needs to be done to finalize it.
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?1680264a-ad79-479b-9d00-66ccc71c944e
Clawdia..about sewer backup..http://tinyurl.com/e6tl7
Don’t worry, be happy. It will be a self-limiting situation, one way or another. You who read this message are more prepared than 99.99 per cent of the rest of the world’s population. You have (or are soon to have) “nailed down” just about everything that can be, given your own particular circumstances.
It is now time (or soon will be the time) to “let go”. To let it happen, to expect it to happen, to be part of what could be one of the most momentous events in human history.
Just let go.
And gather up those energies that you are scattering now and save them for one monumental effort.
My nightmare is about communication. I learned after Isabel how fragile the system is. My family is spread all over and they don’t all have cell phones.
Medical Maven— 20:52
Talking about worries isn’t scattering energy for some, and doesn’t deplete everyone. Well, me, anyhow. Talking about things is a way some people (probably more women than men, I think) rehearse.
In my case, talking about things that worry me actually refreshes me and makes me better able to handle what may come! Isn’t that something?
Just thought you might like to know that, I know you worry so about all us natterers.
(not that *I* am worried about anything. I am cool as a cucumber — see Thread for CUKES.) (-: I’m just saying, for OTHERS….
One prep that people tend to overlook is ensuring all your dental work is up to date and that your gums are disease or infection free. In previous ‘disasters’ one of the great ‘killers’ is gum disease. Because this cannot be treated, it runs rife and overwhelms the system. So, top of your preps lists should be ensuring all dental checks are up to date - even move to quarterly checks to be sure that your teeth and gums are in the best possible state before you need to hunker down.
I have several…most notably:
water supplies
how to safely store the little propane tanks for the stove (we don’t have anywhere outdoors but I hate to keep them in the garage, especially when it’s 100+ yet again and extra hot in the garage)
issues with the kids’ health (and/or them being on their own)
finding $ to keep prepping; next goal is 6 months’ worth
But at the moment, my main concern is that dh is starting a new job (after being basically w/o paycheck all summer) and we just found out that the first paycheck won’t hit until the 31st. I was literally scraping up change to get milk for the little ones (though I do have that powdered stuff, lol).
At least I have some food set back, but it has taken me months and months to store 2–3 mo worth of food for the 6 of us and the last thing I want to do, heading into the fall flu season, is deplete it. But it looks like we’ll have no choice. Guess I’ll just be glad I put back what I did and hope for time to restock once dh starts getting paid.
Petticoat Junction at 00:56 All of yours make a lot of sense, I share the one about propane and hope there’s good advice out there for us.
Anyone have suggestions on storing propane safely, not in a hot garage? What about calcium hypochlirite (for making bleach), “Heat Cell (sterno-like stuff) and other chemicals? I’ve printed off the materials safety info (don’t breathe in the calcium hypochlorite).
We have a couple of garages, and a large, cool basement. Garage 1 has the gasoline, garage 2 is a possibility for the propane except for the heat. Think I’ll put the calcium hydrchlorite in the back hall - it’s cool and has room except for all the clutter. Heat cell also back there someplace. Still not sure what to do with the propane, so I haven’t bought it yet.
I don’t much like having all these noxious substances around…
I am afraid my mentally ill husband will crack in sip and kill me.
Blackbird ~ there have been other threads on storing propane, you can run a search. Variations on outdoor sheds seem to be most popular, but I don’t have that option. The best I could do for now was to make sure there weren’t any matches, etc anywhere nearby. I’m planning on calling the local fire dept (OK, well, maybe the one in the next bigger town because ours is volunteer) and see what they suggest for our local conditions.
Anon at 2:11 ~ If you are not writing metaphorically or tongue-in-cheek, you have my most sincere concern and every good thought I can send your way. That would not be a burden to consider lightly, nor does it mean that your current life is an easy one. ((hugs))
As a pool owner, I can tell you that calcium hypochlorite stores just fine in a hot and/or freezing garage. That’s where I’ve stored mine for the 15 years I’ve lived here (there’s always some left over at the end of the season, I haven’t had the same stuff laying around for 15 yrs). It’s a detached garage, and temps here range from −20 deg. F to +108 deg. F. I wouldn’t keep the stuff inside my house, the smell can be overpowering, especially in a confined space.
As long as a storage shed is well-ventilated (even though it gets really hot) your propane tanks should be fine. The propane tank storage question was discussed in another thread awhile back, but I can’t find it now.
anonymous at 2:11 - I read your post and I’m sincerely hoping that you are joking. If you weren’t joking, I don’t even know what to say. That would be a terrible thing to fear.
blackbird at 01:35
As Kim stated, propane tanks will be fine in the garage if it has some ventilation.
I keep my Sterno in a cabinet in the downstairs kitchen. As long as it is not near any open fire or flame it is fine.
This “umbilical cord”, the fluwiki, may be cut, if the panflu is severe. That is a fear, but that is also a challenge for us to mentally prepare ourselves for that possible prospect. We are not talking about material preparations. We are talking about spiritual preparations. The “nuts and bolts” of what we need to survive will fall into place, IF we have reinforced “the self” for the coming blows.
You neglect that aspect at your peril.
What I expressed at 2;11 is a literal fear.I was not joking or being metaphoric.I am a regular here but even too chicken to post under my screen name about this subject.Medical Maven,how do you think we can mentally prepare for this coming storm?Or is it too late and so long for the sick ones?
Anonymous, that’s probably a problem on others’ minds too.
The FIRST thing I’d do is to get friendly with your nearest police station & fire station folks — take ‘em a cake once a month or some sandwiches, etc. Explain that you might need them at the drop of a hat and you wanted to be reassured that they would know what they were coming into if a frantic 911 call from your home was dispatched to them.
SECOND, get locks — for the guns, for the knives (store them in a cabinet or drawer and use a child lock-even if it slows womone down that could be a life saver), lock up the ax and power tools — there is some sort of safety lock for them as well) leave spare car key & house keys hidden in every room so you can grab & bolt at the same time if you have to, you can always use a baby monitor to ‘track’ what someone is doing in another room and it could com in handy in a sick room setting,
and THIRD, take a self defense course at your local Y or at a church or anywhere you can get some skills and confidence — anything that can buy you time is worthwhile.
FINALLY, stay caught up on your prayers, and we’ll keep you in ours as well.
In regard to the propane issue….I found this info here awhile back, you might want to try to find the same info for YOUR state. If you do a search on fluwikie on the word Wisconsin, you might turn up the thread that this came from— I just had a copy that I’d pasted in an email and sent to myself:
These are the guidelines from a fire department in Wisconsin. AFAIK they’re pretty standard in North America. To be on the safe side you should do as anonymous suggested above and contact your local fire department to find out what the regulations are in your area, to avoid liability or loss of insurance.
An excerpt:
Fuel Storage Issues and Guidelines
Many situations prompt people to store food and fuel to meet the needs of their families. The following is meant to be a guideline to help you know what is safe and within the local laws. Please consult your local fire department for more complete information.
Common Questions and Answers
Question: Can I store emergency fuel containers inside my home, basement, and/or attached garage?
Answer: No! Generally speaking, we ask that you only store emergency fuel containers in a detached shed or garage to minimize fire hazards and ignition sources. Two or three (2 or 3) 1-gallon DOT rated containers for gasoline, and 2-cycle fuel for general operation of lawn maintenance equipment. We have experienced many serious problems with larger quantities of fuel inside homes, basements, attached garages, and carports..
Question: Can I store as many containers as I want in my garden shed or unattached garage?
Answer: No. Depending on the type of fuel (gasoline, kerosene, diesel, and propane), you are only allowed to store limited quantities of each type of fuel, in certain kinds and sizes of containers. See the guidelines below.
Question: What authority does the fire department have to tell me what I can and cannot do I my own home?
Answer: The legal authority comes from fire prevention related portions of the Wisconsin State Code and local city and county ordinances. This really is a life safety (your life safety) issue. Also your homeowner’s insurance provider would like you to keep the quantities of flammable liquids stored at your residence to a bare minimum.
(the link below also has info on Storage of Flammable Liquids like Gasoline and Coleman Type White Gas, Storage of Combustible Liquids like Diesel, Kerosene, & Lamp Oil)
Storage of Flammable Gases (Propane & Butane)
much more. http://ci.marshfield.wi.us/fd/fuelstor.htm
anonymous at 02:11 “I am afraid my mentally ill husband will crack in sip and kill me.”
Hi anonymous, what sorts of things help him to keep from cracking today? does he have support systems other than you? support group? therapist and or doctor? medication? maybe there are ways to make sure he has access to these things while SIP, or, get them in place now if they aren’t there already.
anonymous @ 10:54--you might consider non-lethal forms of deterrent as a very last resort, such as pepper spray or stun gun, if they are legal in your area and you are not unwilling to inflict some moderate or greater discomfort on a loved one in order to save yourself.
If you have a trusted caseworker, you might consider discussing this issue with him/her, although I’d broach the subject carefully and with a good bit or forethought/rehearsal if you go that route. Perhaps a discussion about, “I’m concerned about how my spouse might handle stressful situations, like power outages or hurricanes (if that’s appropriate to your area) or financial problems, etc.” Not all caseworkers, many of whom carry staggering case loads, will be responsive to fears regarding what might happen in a possibly low probability situation from an individual who is not making active current threats. If your spouse is actively a threat to self or others or goes through poorly controlled periods of such, please get help immediately if you have not already. Your local mental health department or hospital could provide you with more information and/or a referral in most cases.
You might consider keeping the crisis line numbers handy. They might or might not be staffed (both locally and nationally) in the event of pandemic and they might be able to give you advice on how to “de-escalate” an escalating situation.
If you have children involved in this scenario, I strongly urge you to create a disaster plan now, for example, a trusted friend or relative to whom your child could go or other plans for a worst case scenario.
If psychotropic meds help to keep your spouse functional, please consider talking with your doctor and/or pharmacist about keeping a supply for SIP purposes.
If your disaster plan can include valued, active roles for spouse to perform that help keep him busy, engaged, and occupied, this might also be helpful.
Just my two cents. sorry this was so long.
Galt
anon at 10:54: To come to terms with this possible disaster each person is going to have to find that religion, that philosophy, that spiritual touchstone that rings true to them. And you will know that you have found it when your anxiety begins to abate. Then you have to entrench yourself into that “shelter”, make it your “home”, return to it frequently, and think about it in many ways. And you need to do this in a way so that you can still continue with the practical matters that are still necessary for survival.
Your friends may not even know that you have found something new at first, but gradually they will see that you are reacting to the world differently, in a more calm and accepting way. And I would keep whatever you have found to yourself, make it exclusively your own.
But whatever you find, part of it will have to be the total acceptance of the worst that you can imagine. “Fear” kills thought and creativity and saps your energy. And you will need all of those things to survive. And by your being calm, there is a chance that whoever is with you that is mentally unstable will be able to make it through, too. They will sense your inner strength and acceptance and will be able to take comfort from that.
I was able to keep a dying relative who I dearly loved from hysterics because I was calm and accepting. It will work, but you have to do some searching. I would spend as much time devoted to this aspect as to any other.
anonymous at 02:11, you should consider contingency plans that might include SIP somewhere other than your spouse. You don’t say whether children are involved or whether there is a history of violence. If your husband knows he is mentally ill and takes meds, and knows a sip will cause problems, can you discuss this with him now and formulate a plan together? Your first responsibility is to take care of yourself and your children/pets, if any.
anonymous—
Are you concerned for your safety right now? What signs is your husband showing now that make you fear violence under the pressure of 24-hour contact? Or is it lack to access to medications you fear most?
I believe the strain of living through a pandmic situation, including an extended stay at home, will be very difficult for most people and extremely hard on those who have already existing psychiatric conditions.
see: The Emotional and Behavioural Consequences of CBRN Events and Other Complex Public Health Emergencies
From the above linked article:
Following most natural disasters the rate of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) in the exposed population is usually in the 11–15% range. This is an elevation above the baseline rate of 8% in the general population. PTSD will be a concern in the pandemic and post-pandemic phases, but rates depression, anxiety, complicated grief and other mental health conditions will also be greatly elevated. This may occur during at a time when access to mental health care and medications may be greatly diminished.
There is a significant number of individuals in any community who struggle day-by-day with serious and persistent mental illnesses, such as schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder (manic depression). Those individuals deprived of their medications and support systems are likely to decompensate and begin to experience a resurgence of psychotic symptoms, such as hallucinations and delusions. The same interruption in medications and treatment for those afflicted with severe depression or anxiety may exacerbate these conditions and result in increases in suicidal and/or homicidal thoughts and acts.
Thanks all for the suggestions…He(we)seem to just mutter through periods of okay behavior and periods of bad behavior.He has just gone through a period of really bad behavior.I should have left him long ago.I do have a therapist that I speak with weekly but he simply will not deal with his issues.(addicted dad who then split from the family with no more contact until my husband reached adulthood,addicted stepdad who kicked his butt to the curb when he was 14)He won’t take meds and wont go to therapist.He does make appointments but will go once and say how stupid they are.Or lie to me for weeks that he is going when he isn’t.I am so stupid to still be in this hell relationship.I have alot of kids and I guess I am just a weakling.I thought my happy demeanor would just carry me through the bad times.I thought that my faith told me to stay.Now with the prospect of panflu it has become painfully clear that none of those things will see me through anymore.A friend asked me to go to al-anon with her lat night and I went just for some support,not cause we have alcohol issues although we do drink some .(also taking these emotion threads serious I figured I could use all the help I could get)Got home and what do you know but he had got some booze and was drunk.He was abusive to me.He knocked over a plant and proceeded to step in the broken pot seriously cutting his foot.My house looks like a horror movie.His mom took him to the hospital cause I am too weak to call the cops.I asked him to stay at his moms.So far he has.
anon
Some of us have been thru it.
He is your past but your children are the future.
They will think- his way might be the way to act or even living and loving someone like that is ok.
Do you want that for their future?
anonymous at 12:12 - Sometimes it takes events like the plant-pot incident to make changes for the better. If alcohol is an issue for him, that will need to be addressed in addition to the mental health issues. He has a long, hard road ahead of him, no wonder he’s started and dropped out so many times and told lies about it. Would he consider going to AA with you, together?
anonymous,
Talk to your local county prosecuter about getting a court order to keep him away from you. I’m not kidding. Your local women’s shelter can help you.
anonymous, please seek out help from a battered women’s shelter and an attorney. Even if you are not ready to leave just yet, they can help you get your ducks in a row. Slainte is right, it is bad, bad bad for your kids to be in the middle of this.
My Daughter’s ex; was just like my ex. Ditto what Melanie said. You are in my heart and prayers. There are great programs out there for single mom’s.
anonymous — Kim and Melanie are right. You can call a local shelter or abuse hotline and just talk. They won’t make you do anything you aren’t ready to do. You can just start thinking about options.
If you are already thinking things like “He’s going to kill me” then there is a reason you are having that thought.
There are signs your intuition is noticing if you have these thoughts. Incidents like last night are an obvious sign, and there are likely many others. The longer you wait, the more normal these things may seem and the more you will be likely to accept.
I do know what it is like to have no good options.
Having children changes everything and reduces your options. But people at a shelter can help you think these things through and come up with a plan.
Good luck and my prayers are with you.
And anonymous, you DON’T have to divorce him to be safe (there is NO faith that I know of that requires one to stay with an abusive spouse… some faiths may be more nit-picky about an actual divorce, but not many). You also may not have to leave your home to keep him away from you and the kids, in fact since he is at his mothers now would be an ideal time to prevent him from returning. You must keep yourself and your children safe and sane, and hanging around to be abused (physically, mentally, verbally, sexually, whatever) is not in your or your kids best interests. Don’t think that you are not a strong woman, you’ve already coped with more than many people would. You can do this. Your local women’s shelter, your county attorney, and a private attorney can all help you.
If you are in immediate danger, consider calling 911, or the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 800–799–7233 (800–787–3224 TTY). they have free, confidential assistance.
here is a page with some links for domestic violence support from the National Domestic Violence Mental Health Policy Initiative:
Good luck to you, mother anon; you can see we have faith in you and your kids, and, want your safety. Now, as well as during a hypothetical Pandemic Year.
My problem (one of them) is the public education that is not taking place but should be;
to get all the citizens here up to date, working past denial, and making practical household and community preparations,
(no matter how politically unpopular or difficult it may seem to local health, emergency, school and other and government officials, to go public now -while there is still time to do things and systems are functioning normally.)
Anon at 12:12
My elderly dad recently went through this with his crazy, abusive ex. The way the family law attorney put it was, “Did you call the police? NO! Did you leave? NO! Did you file for divorce? NO! So that means it was ok with you!” Legally, you have to take some documentable actions that show that what is happening is unacceptable to you.
In particular, if your husband becomes violent, CALL THE COPS! My dad didn’t want to do that, and later, when the situation worsened, he couldn’t get a restraining order because there was no documentation. When it was divorce time, he was at a huge disadvantage because there was no proof that Ms. Crazy Lady did all these things. The lawyers wouldn’t even let him bring it up because so many people make up domestic violence stories during a divorce proceeding to get money. Call right when it happens, PLEASE!! Unless you want to get no help from anybody, and have a bottomless pit of money to pay lawyers. Been there, have the T-shirt.
Please take care of this - having grown up with two parents that were fighting and screaming all the time (until the divorce), I can tell you with absolute certainty that you are sparing your kids nothing by sticking around. They know what’s going on, and are a lot more frightened and upset than they show. I’ll be praying for you. Take care.
anonymous at 12:12 Wow that brings back memories. My first marriage was abusive. Husband never touched me but broke everything I cared about. Making up my mind to leave was the hardest thing as my self esteem was so low-thought I couldn’t make it without his financial support. What I am going to say goes against what most say but it helped me. Provided you are not in immediate danger right now-and your kids aren’t in danger. It is okay to wait until it is a good time for you to leave. But make your plans now and have a leave by date in your head. As you know the most dangerous time for you will be once you leave or he gets wind of you leaving-mine waited until I was moving boxes out for his final attack. Most woman will go back to an abusive relationship because of poor planning beforehand-plan for sucess, and get out once, never go back. Never ever be alone with him once he knows you are leaving or once you have left. Never meet him in a secluded spot. If you are planning to go to a woman’s shelter be forewarned that some police officers know the location of the shelter in their town. I worked at a shelter for a year and the wife of a cop showed up. Be prepared to be wooed back by spouse. When I worked at the shelter the place was always flooded with red roses-it was like working in a funeral home.
The shelter I worked at was very nice. the women were warm and friendly. Good luck getting out and staying out of another bad relationship.
anonymous - I had an abusive boyfried for 4 years way back when I was a teen. He had mental health issues, and I always blamed his meanness on that and tried so hard to understand him and forgive him. I didn’t have any kids, I wasn’t married to him, we lived together off and on, but still I stayed because that was all I knew. Eventually, he took comfort in pounding the crap out of me every time he got annoyed with anything, and thoroughly enjoyed cheating on me all the time. I figured it must be okay, because that’s what I’d known as a kid. It happens right?
One day he decided to stop the car because hitting me with only his right hand wasn’t satisfying enough. He dragged me out of the vehicle, and started pounding on me right there on the side of the road. Unfortunately for him, a sheriff’s deputy happened to be driving along. That was the first time I learned that this wasn’t okay. It further astounded me to learn that it isn’t okay to verbally, mentally, or sexually abuse someone either. What had started out as just a mean-tempered kind of thing had turned into utter debasement when I wasn’t even looking.
Fast forward something over a decade. I have a husband that adores me, a child who is just as normal as could be, and a life that is worth living. I don’t feel like a dog anymore, or a servant, or a piece of crap. IMO, the best thing you can do right now is take what has been handed to you - a chance to get away. You probably aren’t weak, you are just lost and scared. I won’t lie and say it’s easy to get away, but you won’t regret it for a moment in the long run. And if you can’t give yourself the gift of normalcy, give it to the kids. It might feel like you are taking a giant step into a scary world, but when you look back in a few years, you’ll see which world was REALLY scary.
a little too personal for name at 15:36
What an amazing story — you’ve got my deepest respect - you’re a powerful, strong & wise woman! Thanks for sharing your past with the rest of us.
anonymous, you are a prepper, you want to be prepared for things or you wouldn’t be here. Katherine at 15:09 is SO right, it really helps to have a plan laid out if possible. Of course if you or the kids are in immediate danger then all bets are off, but if at all possible, plan out what you’re going to do. You are not alone, there are thousands of women who’ve been through similar circumstances.
LA Escapee, Katherine, Too Personal… great advice, thanks for the posts. I hope anonymous will realize that thinking “he might kill me” is not normal. Many married people would never be thinking that. Don’t accept it as normal. Take it as a serious red flag to heed, you probably are right. Something is wrong with him and he’s not trying to get help. An antidepressant could make a big difference and considering that there are children to think of, it should be tried, pronto, -as an ultimatum.
anonymous - Could it be that you’re confusing or mistaking an abusive streak with mental illness? There are plenty of depressed, anxious, or bipolar people out there who would never in a million years abuse their spouse in any way. I don’t doubt for a minute that he has some sort of issues, but I don’t see how it’s an excuse to be abusive. If anything, it sounds like he should hate men instead of women. Also please remember that abuse usually starts out small, maybe a little yelling or calling you names, but it doesn’t progress to physical stuff until the abuser believes you are too cowed to do anything about it.
From a practical perspective, it might be a good idea to get away from him now, since he pretty much doesn’t want to fix himself. If he cared a whit about what he was doing to you and your kids, he’d be on meds and talking to a therapist. The real issue that I see is the ability to plan for the most effective help you can get. Resources everywhere will be scarce if there’s a pandemic, so why not take advantage of the abundance that is available now. I don’t know if this applies to you, but I’ve met several women in similar situations as yours (lots of kids, abusive husband with mental problems) and one of the very common concerns that keeps them from accessing the services that are available is the fear having to go to work to support a pile of kids. This is a very real fear, but it almost never happens that way. First, the woman spends time getting her head on straight again, then she has the confidence to get a job (or a better one.) In the meantime, there is welfare, state health insurance, housing assistance, and all sorts of other stuff to help her through. A good counselor will know how to find anything you need to make the process easier.
But if for some reason you must stay, there were several good suggestions for self-defense in earlier posts. You might have to make an awful choice, but decide now who should get killed in front of the kids if he snaps during SIP. Which one would be less traumatic for them? I know what I’d guess, but…
anonymous - I work with women who have been or are being abused every day. Your gut is giving you life-saving knowledge right now. It is telling you that if you stay, you will die. This is real knowledge, not you being overly reactive to his explosive unpredictability. Listen to yourself. We all end up in trouble when we ignore that deep voice that tells us clearly what we must do.
Thank you all.I’m sorry I hijacked the thread.I called the womens shelter and will start group therapy there on Monday.I have also rehidden the gun case keys .
anonymous at 07:58- That’s great news, we’re all behind you! Congratulations for taking that first step!
anonymous at 7:58:
Thank goodness. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other, sweetie.
anonymous - Your ‘hijacking’ raised a valid concern that is probably applicable to others and hopefully will be something others take action on now before an environmental shtf crisis occurs. Most likely, your raising this concern and taking action (YAY for you!) will be the push that another woman needs to do what she needs to do. Well done. Take care, stay strong, and use any support offered to you to get through this.
Guess I’ve lived too long to worry myself over what isn’t facing me at the moment. I’ve prepped a bit, read the worse case scenarios and thought about them as I read, but once read, once commented on, that is it. It’s on to the next problem. That is what we have in life, now, and hopefully a lot of tomorrows.For those of you in really terrible relationships, if you can break away do so. Life is too short to feel rotten about yourself, and someone abusive will make sure you feel rotten.As far as violent behavior, that is always possible. Protect yourself, and if you have kids give them a childhood that is free of the fear of a violent person, male or female.
anonymous at 07:58 Not a hijack. I asked what people worried about, and have been just awed by the results. Wishing you all the best.
Lily at 13:22 Your comment makes me feel young, thank you :). Usually my attitude is more in line with what you said (not to worry over what isnt facing me at the moment), but facing the possibility of BF or other large scale disruption — many to choose from these days — is allowing me to step back and re-examine the life I’ve fallen into. Too much focus on work and not enough on the rest of life at this moment, among other things. It feels like an opportunity for renewal and change. So yes, there’s worry but also a lot more clarity around what’s important, along with impetus to do something about it.
Another thing to consider-the child protective aspect. Should children witness husbands’ violence, self-injurious behavior or violence towards spouse, child protective services could become involved, particularly if the non-violent or non-offending spouse hasn’t taken appropriate steps to make the situation safer, including seeking shelter, leaving the relationship,notifying the authorities, etc. It’s considered “failure to protect”.
Back to the flu…with pandemic flu or other total public health emergency or breakdown, I really fear the consequences of individuals and families being totally on their own without community supports and the risk is huge for the affected others of the unmedicated mentally ill. While most of us speculate here as to the dangers of societal breakdown posed by marauding strangers, many of us could be facing thoses dangers from our spouses and families members. I haven’t figured out the answer yet-wish I could-I have someone in my family that would be dangerous if off their meds and I do not want to be isolated with this person.
Someone — was in Leo7? — posted on another thread about the realities of trying to SIP; he said that after even a few days of hurricane weather and power outages they got patients in the ER who needed Xrays and stitches from the fighting that went on when families and “loved ones” were cooped up too long together. Especially with no power, I imagine, the stress of the different life (well, and the heat) can be very trying.
Throw in lack of medication for people with psychiatric problems and that only adds fuel to the fire.
Unfortunately.
Is there a thread on how to legally (and frugally) stockpile psychiatric meds? (-:
Actually, I’ve looked into it and I don’t think so, other than reordering a week or so in advance under most insurance plans, which would take over a year to stockpile, slowly doing it bit by bit. What is a more practical idea is to order generics through offshore online pharmacies, like inhousepharmacy.com and goldpharma.com. Some of the older SSRIs and anti-depressant medications have been around for years and many companies manufacture generics for them. I’ve also travelled extensively for business in the 3rd world and I feel comfortable using generics when I’ve needed them overseas for antibiotics, even for my small child.
I would not isolate with my particular family member (who doesn’t live with us anymore) unless they had their meds for the duration of the isolation, whatever that might be. I’d lived with this volitile person before, who happens to be bipolar, and the individual’s judgement is at best exquisitely, dangerously poor. When the person would run out of meds, they would become easily enraged, threatening and violent towards others and self. But for us, stockpiling meds for this person would required me to do all the prep work at considerable expense, still leaving us at risk from the individual, let alone the bird flu. Even with meds this person would be fully capable of breaking a quarantine and exposing the household…
What I haven’t figured out is how to keep this person away if TSHTF. I have a young child to protect.
My new concern is water. We were without power for 2+ days so our well was out also. It didn’t take long for us to drain the water tank - and it’s 60 gallons. If TSHTF I would not want to be using valuable drinking water to flush the occassional disgusting toilet. So, I am immediately filling containers of tap water and am going to get a rain barrel. Even if it isn’t drinkable at least it can be used for washing dishes, etc. And we’re going to bite the bullet and get a small genny to run the well and coold own teh fridge/freezer. Fuel may eventually run out but it’s better than what we have without - nothing!
Closed to maintain Forum speed.