… and buses… and commuter trains….
I’m wondering what people are thinking of for personal protection against the flu if they must take public transportation to commute to and form work.
Please don’t tell me “not possible”. I know that. But what can be done to minimize the risk? Anything?
Also, I’m not talking about in the middle of a pandemic, but rather during that gray area of time in between the first announcement of pandemic flu somewhere in the world and the realization that it has hit your area. People will need to go to work. They can’t all drive. Will masks help? Hand washing? Staggered shifts? Going in to work at very early hours?
Or point me to a thread if this has been discussed before….
Thanks
“Will masks help? Hand washing? Staggered shifts? Going in to work at very early hours?”
They will all help, but not to 100%.
It’s all about exercising judgement and taking precautions, IMO.
I saw an ad for a personal handstrap, you can fold it up and take it with you. I may start using it now, you can’t take too many precautions on the NYC subway!
knowall — thanks, now THAT’s an idea! (-:
The subway is my weakest point. Driving to work would be a major hassle, but it may come to that. Meanwhile, I am hoping for a staggered schedule. For instance, going into the office no more than 3 times a week for a much longer day so that I can travel when the trains are emptier. Maybe going in weekends instead? Telecommuting for the rest of it. I have been practicing for a while now not touching so much stuff while in the public transportation system. Gloves? Definitely washing up well once I get to work.
I suspect that people who appear sick on public trans will get an earfull from the other passengers.
Carpooling may be a better bet.
Driving to work in many areas may be a complete impossibility — there’s already no parking anywhere downtown!
There will be more parking if a significant number are not commuting, because they are sick, caring for the sick, SIP’ing, or dead.
Let’s just say that’s my personal trigger point — if you can find parking downtown, TS has really HTF and it is time to stay home. (-:
You’re probably right. I’m hoping that is also my company’s trigger point to make sure we can work from home. OTOH, I think the most dangerous period will be before then, as far as taking public trans, so I hope by then I will already be driving to town.
I may be taking a job where I have to ride BART. Wonder how the train people would react to a full burqua? There may be some advantages to other national costumes.
I’m thinking that going back to ‘full coverage’ might be a good idea — i.e. a voluminous rain coat out of that silky nylon, and keeping my hair up under a cap or hat. Light gloves and leggings, and walking shoes. All can be dropped on arrival at work, and put back on on departure, and left in an entryway corner at home out of the way. I’m looking for something to spray them all with to either prevent, or kill off any virus, but haven’t found anything yet.
I don’t know about a face mask - they wear them in Hong Kong, but I don’t know about here. It may be illegal due to the terror threats on trains, etc. Maybe a couple winds of a silk scarf around the nose and mouth when somebody sneezes?
Pocket full of sani-wipes.
Does anybody know anything about that ‘microban’ in sports clothing? Is it just for bacteria, or does it do viri?
Oh, and big bug eye eyeglasses. Swimming goggles probably would freak people out.
I was just over in the files section and found a section on personal avoidance of flu; it pretty much covered the wash your hands, don’t sneeze or cough on people, sneeze into your elbow, avoid public surfaces like door knobs, rails, and so on stuff we have probably aready heard. Like using a hand towel to open the bathroom door on your way out. There was a tip to use your finger to coat the inside if your nostrils with vaseline before you fly on an airplane, as that would seal any odd breaks or cracks in the skin. The section on “Personal Profylaxis” is still to be written, so it is indeed worthwhile to pursue this here .
Here is some info that I got from www .
vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-PO_AI.html
source of contamination:The virus can survive in the manure for up to 105 days, especially in high moisture and low temperature conditions. Mechanical transmission by anything that can walk, crawl, or fly from farm to farm can and will occur. Vectors are agents of disease spread. Rodents, insects (including flies) and wild birds (like sparrows) can act as vectors for AIV by carrying the virus on their bodies from place to place. AIV can also be found on the outer surfaces and inside of shell eggs. Transfer of eggs is a potential means of AIV transmission. Airborne transmission of virus from farm to farm probably does not occur under usual circumstances. The spread of avian influenza between poultry premises almost always follows the movement of contaminated people and equipment.
ways to clean up:
complete change of clothes including shoes and a shower should happen before entering poultry facilities.
Shoes and clothes are an excellent vehicle for the transmission of AIV.
Influenza virus is extremely sensitive to most disinfectants and can be inactivated by heating and/or drying.
Heating can be used to inactivate AIV. Heating a building to 90ºF or higher has been used in other outbreaks as an effective method of sanitation. Spraying a facility with a viricide after depopulation is another method.
Disinfectants that will kill avian influenza virus
One-Stroke EnvironR Any detergent Formaldehyde Bleach Ammonia Acids Heating to 90ºF for 3 hours, 100ºF for 30 min. Drying Iodine containing solutions
this might offer some clues as to how to decontaminate clothing, shoes and surfaces.
Still looking for a simple spray and dry type treatment for clothing, leather shoes, gloves, and so forth that won’t degrade the material.
What about Lysol Spray for clothes. Would that deactivate the virus?
heddiecalifornia – at 23:59 Do you have an area where you could leave your shoes, leather gloves etc. outside in the sun for a few days? I read that UV rays can kill the virus, some people here were going to use this strategy with their mail.
In another thread we discussed how wearing masks and other PPE gear on the subway might provide extra benefits by keeping people at a disance—they might see the PPE gear, think we’re crazy and stay away from us.
prepmaniac – at 07:31-
I just found this on the Lysol website:
“Do LYSOL® Brand Disinfectants kill Bird (Avian) Flu?
LYSOL® Brand Disinfectant Wipes and All Purpose Cleaners do make efficacy claims against Influenza A Virus of which Avian Influenza, bird flu-H1N1 & H5N1 are both strains of Influenza A. Based upon this similarity we believe that disinfectants claiming efficacy against Influenza A will inactivate all type A viruses. LYSOL® Brand Disinfectant Spray has recently been granted Federal EPA Approval against the H1N1 strain of Avian Influenza for use in areas where poultry or food processing takes place.
Although claims against the particular bird to bird contagious strains (H5N1)are not made nor allowed to be made per an EPA Mandate, organizations such as the US CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION (CDC) recommend these two easy steps to help stop many infectious diseases:
CLEAN YOUR HANDS OFTEN—Keeping your hands clean is one of the best ways to keep from getting sick and spreading illness. ROUTINELY CLEAN AND DISINFECT SURFACES—Cleaning with soap, water and scrubbing removes dirt and most germs. However, using a disinfectant cleaner (registered with the Federal EPA) kills germs, giving even better protection. “ http://www.lysol.com/avian_flu/faqs.shtml#lysol
knowall — yes, after reading the UC Davis instructions for keeping a chicken farm clean, it seems that people really do have a good chance of avoiding flu, since decontamination is pretty simple. Wash!! If you have clothing, wash it in detergent and run it through the dryer. For hard Surfaces, keep clean and use lysol or any other disinfectant cleaner. For shoes and leather gloves, heat up to 100 degrees — if you have a car you can heat up to 100 degrees any afternooon it’s sunny — that’s really not that high. I’m thinking a complete decontamination system could be set up in your laundry room — plug in a microwave oven, set up a personal wash area, and drop everything else into the washing machine when you get home. Would be nicest if you have a mud room entry with washer and dryer and shower right in there already.
I don’t know if its a good idea to heat leather shoes to 100 degrees, I don’t think my Manolo Blahnik’s could take it.
heddiecalifornia – at 12:43- are you planning on microwaving your clothing?
Interesting experience today.
I was shopping. Usually if I’m going to be getting a number of things I will get a shopping cart. If I don’t have a container of Lysol wipes in my purse the first place I go in the store is to find a container of Lysol wipes. Today I decided I had plenty of wipes at home (but none on me) so I decided to just forego the cart and carry the items in my arms. (I say this all to explain why I had no wipes available.)
Anyway there was a lady with a kid (about 3) in her shopping cart. The kid was touching the cart all over and rubbing his eyes and nose, etc. The mother kept saying “Rex (or whatever his name was)- this cart is filthy! Don’t put your hands in your mouth.” I heard her say stuff like that a few times. I was so confused. I mean, I know there are some parents who think they should just let kids be exposed to any number of germs from everyone and anyone because they think it will “build up their immunity”. (Obviously I’m not one of those. It is just not natural for a small child to be exposed to SO MANY BUGS from THOUSANDS of people from around the world. Never before in history was this thought to be acceptable. But enough ranting.) Anyway, apparently this parent at the store was not one of those either (because of her scolding the kid not to eat the germs) and yet still no wipes.
If I’d had my wipes on me I would have given her a couple, but my question is why don’t pediatricians or someone advise parents to routinely use these wipes?
In recent years my kid has been trained to not touch those carts at all unless there is a wipe where she’s going to put her hand. I wasn’t always smart about it. I didn’t put 2 and 2 together until I picked up a VERY bad intestinal bug from a shopping cart a few years ago. (I know for a fact that I couldn’t have picked it up anywhere else.) Since I instituted the “no wipe, no cart” policy my family very rarely gets sick anymore. We went from 2 or 3 colds a month to 2 or 3 colds a year…and no more stomach bugs.
People need to start now getting into the habit of thinking that any public surface that thousands of people touch could have the pandemic flu on it.
It is really not so much of an inconvenience to use the wipes. I don’t wipe down the whole cart. In fact I don’t wipe any of it at all. I just drape a few wipes across the handle and where ever else the kid might touch the cart. We never touch the surface of the “cart” we just touch the “wipe”. It really seems to help.
Sorry to be off topic— I know this is about subways.
anonymous – at 13:57 I can relate, I carry wipes for the shopping carts, too. They are just as disgusting as the subways. Ick!
knowall —
knowall — 100 degrees is not at all hot! Just walking around on a sidewalk last week in the heat wave was probably closer to 200 or more — a car in sunshine quickly gets to 120 degrees, and that would not be too hard on walking shoes!!
On the subway or commute train, I would wear sturdy walking shoes, not manolos. Not even my Ferragamo pumps!! Save them for indoors at work or home —
Decontaminating might not be as hard as I had imagined —
anonymous at 13:57. You and the mom had it backwards! The kid in the shopping cart wasn’t being exposed, the kid was the one spreading cooties everywhere. ;^)
I like my garden clogs - they’re smooth hard plastic. It might be a good commute shoe because they would be easy to disinfect.
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