A thread for those of us that need a place to express our fears, and “cry” a little if needed. A flu pandemic is a scary thing. As we try to learn more about it and prepare, sometimes we also need a place where we can discuss our fears with others that understand.
As the other threads deal with information such as flu news, science, or prepping, this thread deals with emotions generated by pandemic flu. Let us keep it on topic, but also use empathy and compassion. We that feel we are a rock of stability now, may need to express our fears and concerns tomorrow.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
Well said and thanks for the initiative! (That’s my shortest post for the day!)
Great thread idea, and thank you!
Thanks for posting this thread, I think its a great idea. Is this a place to post ideas and links for coping with feelings, too? The other thread got me thinking about the kinds of skills that would help during SIP and other times, too . . . such as creating a routine and sticking to it, journaling, exercising, etc?
knowall – at 16:56
I think this thread should be a discussion thread about what we are feeling as it relates to pandemic flu. Discussion of coping mechanisms would be appropriate I believe.
Science Teacher has started a very good thread about coping with emotions too. It appears to be a more methodical approach for the FluWiki community to develop tools to help people as they are dealing with the range of emotions that can accompany a pandemic. I kind of see her/his thread as being a help for more deep seated or chronic emotional difficulties (which will likely be a major issue during a pandemic), while I see this thread as being a shoulder of a friend to cry on. A place to discuss emotional issues and recieve advice from regular folks. There is a difference in dealing with short-lived emotional up-heavals (which we all experience now and then), and dealing with chronic anxiety or depression.
Has anyone else been on a rollercoaster these last two weeks? I have been swinging from extreme to extreme on my BF concern pendellum!! (not even quite sure where I am today…it has already changed since this morning!)
Please note that when I mention “recieve advice from regular folks” in my post above, I meant “regular folks versus mental health professionals”. Kinda like an older woman giving advice to a younger mother about how to care for a sick child, versus a doctor giving advice. Regular folks can give good advice, but should recommend a doctor when the problem is no longer a skinned knee, but has become a severe infection.
Okieman – at 17:19
Sort of like sitting on the front porch, chatting with neighbors!
I just posted on the other thread that I have found that I blindside myself by not being aware at any given time, where I am on that concern pendellum. We all sort of settle into a spot on our personal 1–10 scale, then something blips and we’re caught off balance because we suddenly realize that we’ve either creeped or careened into a different number on the scale….usually a higher one! It’s unnerving to realize that our ‘settled in’ number changes without our permission.
okcinder, I’ve not been at extremes within weeks, but that doesn’t mean anything other than maybe I’ve not been paying attention as much as you have. Paul Harvey was talking about BF in the past tense today, after the scientific community had broadcast that maybe fears were exaggerated. So I know lots of listeners will ‘calm down’ and slow down or crank to a stop on their preps, or shrug & say they knew it all along. I get frustrated with that side of things we have to cope with too.
Wonder what’s got you stirred up over these last few weeks? Anything specific that you can identify?
okcinder – at 17:22
I have been having to reconsider an issue I thought was solved. I thought the springs near my land would be a good backup water source. With the drought we are having in Oklahoma, they are drying up. I am now going back over my options concerning drinking water and that has put me on edge.
Okieman – at 17:19 - thanks Okieman, I just found ST’s thread.
I’ll toss in my bit to get this ball rolling! I’m fearful that I’ll miss some critical prep. I’m fearful that I’ll chicken out and hide in my house rather than get out there and do some good. I’m fearful that no matter how much food I put away, it won’t be enough. I’m scared to death that I may be forced to turn needy neighbors and friends away. I worry that someone I love will die because I couldn’t do enough for them.
I don’t really need any advice or consolation…yet. I just thought I’d share some of the stuff that scares me. These aren’t new feelings, but they always seem to be lingering at the back of my mind. If there is a pandemic, will I keep it together or will I choke? Am I good enough, or smart enough, or (fill in the blank) enough to beat this?
“then something blips and we’re caught off balance because we suddenly realize that we’ve either creeped or careened into a different number on the scale….usually a higher one! It’s unnerving to realize that our ‘settled in’ number changes without our permission.
Yep, that describes it, and you posted it before I explained my backup water problem:-)
Okieman… you of all people know I’m a “regular folk” in the normal sense of the word (if any of us in the family can be called normal).
I’ve just swung from blissfully not paying attention (determined to not let concerns about bird flu take up enourmous amounts of my time) to wanting to cry. If you saw the post about the suspected Indonesian family… that breaks my heart.
I don’t want to imagine that scenario playing out around me in my family and friends and neighbors. Yes, I’m prepped. Yes, I’ve prayed for the family in Indonesia. And yes, I still want to cry.
We all have our fears and tears… that is simply living and being human!!!
Hey Michelle,
I haven’t read the post you mention but I will in just a little while. Yea, I keep swinging back and forth too. I knew you had backed off from the issue some lately, and understand.
(Michelle in OK is my sister by the way. We are fortunate that all of our family is prepped to one degree or another.)
I find it very hard to understand medical folks who know everything that I know or even more but can carry on as if in full expectation that life will go on exactly as they have always known it for the next 50 years.
I find it very frustrating that some of my best friends, genuinely normal kind intelligent people that I have known for decades can so compartmentalize their minds and lives.
There are times when I wonder if I have ever truly understood them.
It frustrates me. It scares me. I guess it also makes me feel lonely and alone.
And then I look at their kids, and wonder how my friends would react if this virus actually hits and takes one of them, and then my heart breaks for them.
can I still join in here even tho’ I’m a social worker? I just want to say that I can really relate to the feelings of being alone and lonely expressed by anon_22 – at 18:01. Its especially hard for me when my “prepping partner” doesn’t take the threat of BF as seriously as I do, I feel like I worry for both of us. He wants us to be prepared for BF, but I am the one who does most of the work as far as keeping current with news and practical SIP issues, etc. We joke about it: he says he’ll make up for it by doing extra work when we finally start SIP, but the joke isn’t always funny when I’m doing all the worrying and he just carries on as if nothing is happening.
Boy, we’re all in each others’ heads aren’t we? Very clear statements of our deepest fears, our weakest areas, our ongoing frustrations. How reassuring that your whole OK family is on board with this, but oh my gosh, the water issue! Anon_22, your mention of compartmentalization reminded me of a book called something like Men are like Waffles, Women are like ……..Pancakes??? I don’t remember what we’re like, but I certainly agree about a lot of men being waffles — with ever aspect of their lives in little waffle-wells, holding it’s own syrup, separate and apart from every other waffle-well. But maybe men aren’t the only waffles…….
I guess the ultimate fear we all probably have is having to watch someone we love die. Many people go through that all over the world, but usually they get some time to adjust, maybe even work through some of the grief steps, etc., but others that have a loved one die in a car accident or at war or whatever, where they didn’t get to say a final good-bye or where the time was so short that there wasn’t any time to love each other through it have it hard in a different way. I think if BF is a problem then many of us may find ourselves in the latter situation, where there’s not enough time between doses of medications to say goodbye. Painful thoughts.
okcinder at 17:22 -
Yep. I think it’s panflu and world events all thrown together. I also think this bad combo is what’s spurred my DH to get more involved with preps. I think he’s getting really concerned.
anon_22,
That’s one of the reasons I’m looking forward to seeing you later this month. It’s sorta like we’re all on a different wavelength from everybody else.
I was in a dermatologist’s office yesterday with husband for an appointment. Before we left, I asked if I might ask an unrelated question, and then asked if the doctor were following the course of H5N1. He gave me quite a blank look, and asked if that were the new form of e. coli, then agreed with me when I said, no, it was avian influenza. That was answer enough to tell me what I wanted to know. This was a successful professional man in his late 50s, married with older children, who should be aware and is obviously not. I find this quite disturbing and frightening . . .
I’ve also been walking that rocky road comprised of war worries and flu worries, with things appearing as though the whole world is falling down around me. I suspect a lot of us feel like that. We feel better, for a while at least, when we prep, because that lets us feel that we are not helpless. Trouble is, since I’m quite aware of it, it doesn’t help when it comes to making me feel like I’m in control. I know I’m not. The war is at a fever pitch even as I type this, and I can’t figure out for the life of me how many people in Thailand are infected with H5N1, much less what is happening in Laos - I live in a state of perpetually heightened awareness, if not downright anxiety.
Anon 22 at 18:01
I’ve noticed this as well. The unspoken words at my place of work (hospital)is don’t bring it up! To me it ends in a person’s personality—those who like their info spoonfed and those that like to go it for themselves.
Sorry should read go get it for themselves.
SIP is going to be the acid test for relationships too. One of my fears is that in very large doses, I can get pretty sick of people being around me 24/7, even people I gave birth to.
knowall, yep, it’s lonely when your partner isn’t on the same course as you. So not only are you dealing with the worry, but sometimes the ridicule!
Windsong, this may change the face of future laws — they may make strangling legal! (just joking of course, not trying to offend anyone who has had someone they know stangled)
My biggest worry is that I won’t have enough food. My garden did not do at all as well as I had hoped this year because of lack of rain. I was stunned by how fast my kids decimated a bin of preps they found when I was away and money is very tight so I’m only able to add to my preps in small amounts. I get sick of thinking about the flu-sometimes I wish I were one of people I see tripping along, la-la-not a pandemic thought in their heads! I coasted through July pretty calmly, but now my anxiety is starting to creep back up-maybe because we are getting closer to flu season?
I got bitten by chiggers, had to go to the store for some OTC anti-itch cream. Makes me wonder what else I don’t have at home because I haven’t needed it in years, but might need and not have during a SIP.
Gotta remember “need” is a relative term. Most of our OTC stuff is minor symptom relief they lived without a generation ago. If you caught a cold, you suffered cold symptoms for a week; if you got bug bit, you itched for a while. Symptom relief is welcome but not essential.
I need to focus on actual necessities, not try to duplicate an entire drug store of comfort stuff that might go out of date (at $5 per item) unused.
Ah, I feel better already.
i’m working 17:29
I think it is as okbird said…the additional world situation keeps me additionally stirred up. Then I read a few threads that really bring my “pucker factor” down…(the “brains” kinda calming people down, makes it all not feel so dire.) Then we get new BF suspects in the news and I’m right back up there.
Also, as several have mentioned…husband is not on board. He is accepting of the food stockpiles, did cut down a few more trees for me to be drying out, and ok’ed the purchase of some collapsable water containers “because they would be good for camping”…but that’s it.
Don’t know…I had taken a emotional vacation the beginning of summer and was feeling fairly comfortable, now it’s nagging in the back of my mind all the time again.
Every time I think I’ll take a breath…and slow down on the prepping, I find myself waiting to exhale for some reason or another (like these new cases in Indo):-( So I just keep on preppin’.
BUMP.
Gotta keep this great thread going!
I guess I’m lucky my family’s lives have been turned upside down the past few months. Three months ago today we were living in our home town in California and everything seemed fine. The next day my husband lost his job and we have since moved our family halfway across the country to start over. The move went anything but smoothly and it will be awhile before we find a new “normal” for our lives.
I had really only begun prepping back in California and had to completely stop. Now I am trying to begin prepping again adding to what little I already had. The hard part is not knowing the area, not knowing the good stores to get the best bargains and doing it all on a budget that is still tight. I would love to go buy about $60 worth of peanut butter because I accidentally found a great buy the other day but I need to save money for: a refridgerator because we have been here almost seven weeks and still do not have one. A sofa because we have only a recliner and a camp chair for living room furniture, forget dining room furniture, there is none. Bed frames and foundations because there was no room for them in the moving van, and mattresses on the floor are not only not comfortable but not healthy should the flu hit us. And I also need to pay about $900 back to my aunt who helped smooth out our move as best she could.
Worrying about preps for the past three months has been so far back in my mind it’s been nearly non-existant. The “distraction” of all these other worries has kept me from worrying about H5N1 flu. I have a husband who is halfway through his unemployment and still unemployed. Only one family member is working and the rest of us are looking for jobs. Our show rabbits (some quite valuable and all much loved) are boarded three hours away from us with people we barely know. And as for Lebanon and Israel…I really don’t care. Maybe they will hurry up and finish each other off so our young men will not have to worry about a draft or being exposed to something as awful as a flu pandemic in a military camp setting like so many were in 1918. Sorry but my kids are young enough to be drafted and I am sick of the entire middle east and their “issues” with “infidels” like me.
Will I continue prepping? I continue to do a little here a little there as I can. Will it be enough should we get hit with a hurricane this season or a flu pandemic this fall? No. Now, I will not revisit this thread because now that I have let this all out I really am scared and tired and need to just go cry. If I let myself think about all of this too much I won’t be able to hang in there and solve my own problems and there isn’t anyone to solve them for me so i have to.
Yes, it’s amazing how things can change in an instant. One month ago, I was prepping, with Dh’s support, (except for the gun I wanted to get). We managed to collect several months worth of supplies.
Then, three weeks ago, DH passed away unexpectedly from a massive heart attack. To make a long story short, I now need to sell the house. And not only is it full of our stuff, but there are now all those preps to deal with. I am feeling extremely overwhelmed right now. I just hope stuff doesn’t hit the fan while I’m moving. The only bright spot on the horizon is that I’ll be going to a less urban area.
dd - I am so sorry to hear about your DH. I can’t imagine everything you are going through right now. Please let us know if there is anything we can do. Cyber hugs.
Thanks LauraB. It’s good to have a place to just “cry” a little bit.
I guess the reason the majority of folks here on the FluWiki are over 40 years old is that it takes some years of living and experience to come to the realization that life can take a turn for the worse very quickly. There have been too many times that we, or someone we know, have had our legs swept out from under us whenever we thought we were standing on solid ground. In this physical world there is no solid ground. (Spiritually, well..that is a different matter. That is the only place “solid ground” can be found.)
Poppy, hang in there. Live each day one at a time. When you feel like all you are doing is just treading water, help will rise up when you least expect it.
dd, it has to be tough right now. While I would like to be able to say something that would make things better, I know that neither I nor anyone else here can make the hurt go away. But know that as each one of us here on the FluWiki read this thread, we will each be reminded of you, and each in our own way say a little prayer for you.
dd,
Condolences on the loss of your spouse. It doesn’t get much worse than that. Tell us we what can do to help support you. Spell it out—for those of you who have never been through this, it is about the most traumatic thing you can go through and the needs are different in every situation.
dd,
Jeez, you really have had the wind knocked out of you. Keep your chin up, I’m so sorry for your loss. Best advice I ever got, “breathe Kelli”…good luck. and breathe.
One of the greatest fears I have living down here near Death Valley up in the mountains, that when (not if) the avian flu starts doing it pandemic dance, that at some point I will recieve some phone calls telling me that a friend or a relative (son, grandson, brother, etc), that lives a thousand miles away had caught that flu, and died. When the pandemic does happen, I do know that there will be some phone calls of that nature, and that is my greatest fear,,,,and cannot do anything about.
Green Mom,
My gardens were a dismal failure this year apart from the lettuce and onions I harvested. Poured tons of money and energy into building square foot garden beds only to realize that I am going to have to relocate at least one of them (not enough sun). Money is tight here, too, as DH starts his own business. My 6 children also decimate my pre-packaged preps when I don’t get to the grocery store regularly.
Cyber hugs to dd and Poppy. Will remember you both tonight in my night prayers.
Nice to know that others are suffering from anxiety like I am. My DH’s support for prepping is waning. Sometimes I wish I’d never heard of BF. All I get is crap for it. No pun intended :)
dd: Your post took my breath away. I am so sorry for your loss. I hope you consider all of us here as friends and will call on us to provide whatever comfort we can. My thoughts and prayers are with you tonight.
dd: I am so sorry for your loss. There are no words. You are in my prayers. Please come back to cry if you need to.
dd-I am so sorry to hear about your loss. If theres anything worse than losing a loved one, its losing him quickly without warning. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
Poppy- I dispise moving. I moved halfway across the state a few years back and I was wrecked. I can’t possibly imagine moving across the country! we wern’t employed when we moved either, and we also did the camp chair in the living room thing, all and all a pretty dreadful situation, so you have my full sympathy. I will leave you with this hopeful note though-it took us probably about a year-the move, finding jobs, coping with camp chairs, that whole bit, and it was pretty awful, but ours lives are soooo much better now. Dh found a job he loves-don’t pay much, alas, but has turned out to be very fulfilling. Things really worked out for us-I hope they will also work out for you. You are also in my prayers.
Poppy - Hang in there, the preps can wait while you get things sorted out. I’m sure you’ll be back on track soon. Let us know how it goes.
dd - I’m so sorry for your loss. I will include you in my prayers.
Minneapolis Mom-
The other day I was mournfully walking through the heat-scorched remains of my garden and I noticed something. Just as a kind of eco-experiment, along one side of my garden I had placed a row of tires. I layered the inside as per Lasagnia Gardening, ( first, layer of newspaper, then leaves, compost, peat moss, etc etc ) and planted different things in them. Kind of forgot about them to tell you the truth. The plants in the tires are doing fantastic! Big bushy plants, no weeds! I planted a melon-it has two good size fruits plus more blooms, a squash thats doing great, a Roma tomato plant just full of tomatos and four o’clocks-supposed to repel Japanese beetles. That plant is absolutly gorgous. I think the tires were able to hold in enough moisture-these were heavily mulched also,-to keep them from drying out. I’m now looking for more tires to plant a fall crop in. I have a rather huge semi-tire that I liberated from the side of the road, plus some that dh has happily donated to the cause. I’m planting stuff a’ la square foot garden though I don’t know exactly how to convert square space to round space- I think you multiply something by pi and divide by the phase of the moon or some such.
It was a very nice bright spot to an otherwise dismal week.
Poppy and DD, your losses though different, are very much real and painful and scary & you have our prayers that each day will somehow get a little easier. The feelings you’re having, however varied & volitile, are oddly normal for us human beings. Only small steps will seem possible, and that’s OK, you will both be in my thoughts and prayers. Be good to yourselves.
dd – at 20:48, so sorry for your loss. How ever you are feeling (at any time) is right for you. Do you know about “Grief Recovery Online”? http://groww.org/Branches/branch.htm 24/7; good if you can’t sleep.
anon_22 at 18:01, I so “get” the surreal, ‘why others carrying on as if nothing bad can disrupt’ - Why are officials balking at telling public? (Unprepared) People (and communities) are going to suffer,( more than necessary) but, I can’t “get horses to drink”. Sometimes I don’t try anymore, (for a while, then, feel it is too unethical not to keep trying to get people at least a bit informed).
Thanks to all of you for your prayers and support. I know all the prayers and kind words have been getting me thru so far. I sometimes still feel like I’m in shock - it can’t be real, I want to tell him about this or that, or I think he will be there when I turn around. Some days are better than others.
I can’t imagine how much harder this would have been if it had happened during pandemic flu. So many people have reached out to me and have been so kind and helpful. But what if everyone were suffering from this sort of loss at the same time? And at a time when people are going to be worried about being exposed to a potentially fatal disease. There are going to be alot of devastated people with alot of needs, physical and emotional.
dd,
When it is happening to YOU, it really doesn’t matter what’s happening to other people. It’s your reality. That’s a psychological truism. For you this is global right now. And that’s normal.
dd and poppy—
Y’all put my “stresses” into perspective today! I am so very sorry for both of your situations—just said a prayer for you!
dd-i am sorry for your loss. You nailed when you said shock. I watched my mother die two years ago. The hardest part, or one of them is the loss of all the memories of her. By that I mean wheneverI think of her I can’t seem to recall anything but the last five hours of her life when her lungs were slowly filling with fluid. And I just hate that this funny, smart, witty and interesting woman has been reduced to these last few hours. She would have hated that. I am hoping with more time I will be able to recall more of who she was. The finality of it is just so brutal.
dd,
I hadn’t read this thread again till today. I’m so sorry for your loss. Most people live their lives in oblivion of what misfortune might await them round the corner. The loss of ‘innocence’ that accompanies an untimely death is not something that can be recovered quickly. I only hope that in time you will find strength and solace and a new balance in your life. In the meantime, hang in there, take care, and all the best.
katherine at 03:22 -
“I am hoping with more time I will be able to recall more of who she was.”
You will. I say this, having lost my mother 9 years ago.
I am so thankful that DH didn’t have to suffer. If I had a choice, I would go like he did.
Still, it’s such a shock to realize how fragile life is, and how you just never know what’s going to happen next.
This finality IS brutal. There are so many things I would like to tell him. Some serious things, some things only we would laugh at. We were married for 17 years, known each other for 20, but it sometimes it seems like we were always together. It’s hard to remember my life before he was part of it.
What a good idea about tires. I have a least two in the rafters of a garage, a good experiment for next year. In my large pots I have large bushy tomotoe leaves with only a few green tomatoes on each plant, Might turn red by September. I think I’m going to do a lot of garden lore reading this winter. As far as male and female responses. I”m a female, but a waffle type. Compartment after compartment,. Might be why I prefer waffles over pancakes.
I too feel a little overwhelmed sometimes. I do all the prepping and hubby depends on me to keep up with BF (and everything else) He is 59, type II diabetic and works 12–18 hours a day (desk job, but even still it is too much) and most weekends too. Back in May he was in the ER once and the hospital twice. Now suddenly I don’t feel quite as safe as I once did. My biggest fear is that during the pandemic I will be the one to get sick. Then who will take care of everyone else?
dd - I’m so sorry to hear about your husband. I do know how you feel. 28 years ago I lost my husband suddenly. He was 30 and I was 26. We had only been married 4 years. Our children (one from a former marraige) were 6, 2 and 8 months old. Needless to say, I couldn’t slow down to mourn. I have said a prayer for you asking God to help you through this time with his love. I hope you can feel that.
Gardening with tires. I read somewhere that you can continue to stack tires with dirt onto a potato plant and then just remove the tire layers to harvest them. Have never tried it.
dd, All of us who have lost someone they love can relate to the problems you face. It is a tremdous shock to have someone die immediatly. I know i drove my husband who was going shocky to the hospital with his first heart attack. He had three, and died of something much more painful. He actually wished at times that he could go quickly with a heart attck. Just saw a film, and the Apple store is closing. I hope all goes well with your move, and the rest of your life. God bless and keep you and your family safe from harm.
Katherine, our mind will not let us forget the good memories, but sometimes the bad ones overlay the good ones and but them in the shadows. I feel certain the shadows will part & the pain will ease in your own time. Be patient and gentle with yourself….I’m reminding myself to do the same thing — I still remember the scary things about my mother’s death days prior to me waking up to see her passing in her sleep. The bad seems to always show up first, but the good memories get stronger & start to push the bad ones aside. It’s sort of like the race between tortoise (good memories)& the hair (bad memories)……eventually the tortoise wins.
Top Cat and Lily, Thanks for your comments - you make me feel a little less alone. I’ve been in the ER and I’ve driven DH to the hospital twice when he had heart attacks. He was totally conscious and aware both times before and in absolute denial that he needed to go to the hospital. Only the threat that I would call the ambulance made him go. DH was a type I diabetic for most of his life. He had two heart attacks previously (10 years ago and 4 years ago), but he was doing very well since then. In fact, he just got good reports from his doctors in June(it seems like he had a different one for every one of his body parts). You just never know.
dd,
I am so sorry to hear about your Dear Husband. How difficult. Thank you for sharing this intimate time with us. Take care of yourself. I pray you have people close to help you. Your inner strength shows through when you speak of how others might feel in a panflu while you are in the midst of such turmoil. Your DH was a lucky man.
Katherine,
I, too, believe that your memories will change. I have lost 2 close relatives and am the stepmother of a houseful of children that have lost both parents. We never know another’s pain.
In my work, I see death often and have shared the grief of many families. I once read that a person is not measured by their death, but by their life. Those last few hours are such a small part. And while the sight may be worrisome and even scarey, perhaps it may give you some solace to know that as a person eases into death, they do not know it. It may look and sound laborious, but once we get to that point, we are not aware. Seeing so many patients die has removed any anxiety I might have had.
I do believe that your Mom “knew” you were there in her spirit. That is why I tell families to talk to their loved ones if they choose. I hope you can at least replace your frightening memory with the remembrance that you were there with her.
nsthesia: Thank you. It’s been 13 years since my Mom died and I still grieve; I think I will until the day I die myself. Your words are very comforting.
Friends and family have been so helpful and kind to me. They have been calling and visiting and doing everything they can to help me out. I don’t know what I would do without them! I am very fortunate for the wonderful people in my life.
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dd.Don’t know your age or if you have children. Had not been following the wiki for a number of weeks as I was more concerned with the world situation. I never overload on trouble. What I want to say is your husband is still with you and always will be, even if you go into other relationships when time has passed. I live completely in the present, and yet I must dream of my husband or my mother or others who are long gone, and they will always be alive in spirit and in me. Again my sympathy and warmest regards.
Lily, DH was only 45. We didn’t have children, our dogs are our kids. Thank you for your kindness.
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