From Flu Wiki 2

Forum: Darwin and the Descent of Man

11 October 2006

NS1 – at 22:37

Although Pogge has closed the thread on Will a Pandemic Solve Any Problems due to an unpopular opinion being discussed, I intervene in the normal spirit of expression on the FluWiki and answer a question posed by Ottawa Guy, so that fairness and equity will also have their day and voice.

Pogge, feel free to suspend me as necessary. I, for one, have grown weary of seeing rational discussion on very important topics closed due to lack of scientific or factual understanding on the case of the moderators and their advisors. I do not wish to be unkind in any way; I do hold to the simple position that accuracy may be found on careful discussion and careful examination of facts.

Winnowing removes chaff. Why do we so often rely on the chaff as a basis for our discussion?

I stand her volunteering to winnow.

As I’ve always asked, Gather and Solve.


Ottawa Guy stood aghast at notions posed on the earlier thread and made statements that require an answer.

This is held up as fact and defended as truth? Other than assertions from the author of this bit of race baiting (or baiting those who don’t accept evolution as FACT) and the followers of it, no evidence is provided to suggest that Darwin ever wrote, said or thought this. Give me one unequivocal statement, uncontested/valid citation to support that statement and I’ll recant.
This is the most awful claptrap I have ever come across in a discussion (and I have been part of a good many). Darwin never singled out any race. Rather, said he, homo sapiens are all the same, descended from a common ancestor, of the same flesh and blood, our flesh is as it is with all creatures. Our differences arise from environmental differences, not divine order. Blacks/whites/asians/aborigines, we are all the same, all animals, all come from a common ancestor.
His ideas were antepolar to those of his society. His society, 19th century Britain and most europeans too, believed that Britania ruled the waves, of the white man’s burden, and all that other nonsense that justified the persecution of the underdeveloped world and of the superiority of the white man. That is partly why he was villified by some.

I offer to you an excerpt of many available from Darwin’s own hand. In the future, take care to read and fairly develop your topic before attacking.

At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes … will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian [aborigine] and the gorilla.

Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man, 2nd ed., New York, A.L. Burt, p. 178, 1874.

I do not ask for a debate here as the issue is deeper than this forum can support. A question was asked and is now answered.

As you all can see, I very clearly do not support the concept of molecules to man evolution. After thousands of hours of research on either side, I find the evidence does not support the theory of goo to you evolution.

If you survey the genetics threads where I have posted, you’ll clearly see that, unlike most who carry the anti-evolution banner, I fully observe and understand the movement of existing genetic material between the so-called lower order organisms (mycobacteria, nanobacteria, bacteria, spiroplasma, virus, retro-virus, parasite and fungus). I do not find compelling evidence that any of these organisms grouped and formed into a man through any series of intermediate steps.

Before anyone begins the classic attacks on oppositional viewpoints, please realise that precisely zero of you understand my take on the concept of evolution as it relates to science and to society because I have yet to share the very defined theories that have been developed in the past 3 years. Your presuppositions will only take you in directions away from a balanced discussion.

Some ideas to ponder:

We should all do our homework, learn about the principal players and their supporters, before we draw conclusions and ‘reach for our quivers.

Gather and Solve.

Monotreme – at 22:45

NS1 – at 22:37

Let me ask you straight out, do you believe in Intelligent Design? Please understand that I greatly respect your contributions, but the this forum is not the place to debate Evolution vs. ID.

But I’m sure you know where I would stand on that issue ;-)

Tom DVM – at 22:55

If you believe in Mother Nature then you can believe in evolution and intelligent design at the same time…

…at least she appears to me to be a lot smarter than humans…and I hope she hasn’t decided we are expendable.

…and a side benefit is when you sit in my church…the view is always different…and you never get bored. /:0)

pogge – at 22:57

Closed. This isn’t the place and in particular, this isn’t the time. Let it drop.

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