Apologies if this was already covered: what’s the best product for turning questionable water into drinking water? For instance, tap water if TSHTF. Thanks in advance for your help and experience.
We have the BIG BERKEY By British Berkfield. I can’t say it’s the best, but it was one that was highly recommended during Y2K on many forums. I’m not sure what’s out there today, but I know our model is still available.
From an eBay auction here are some features: Features: The versatile Big Berkey® system is the ideal system for use at home with small or medium sized families, travel, outdoor activities or during unexpected emergencies.
This powerful system purifies both treated water and untreated raw water from such sources as remote lakes, streams, stagnant ponds and water supplies in foreign countries, where regulations may be substandard at best. Perfect for outdoor activities and a must in hostile environments where electricity, water pressure or treated water may not be available.
The Big Berkey® system removes pathogenic bacteria, cysts and parasites entirely and extracts harmful chemicals such as herbicides, pesticides, VOCs, organic solvents, radon 222 and trihalomethanes. It also reduces nitrates, nitrites, unhealthy minerals such as lead and mercury. This system is so powerful it can remove food coloring from water without removing the beneficial minerals your body needs. Virtually no other system can duplicate this performance.
Constructed of highly polished 304 stainless steel, the system comes complete with two purification elements and utilizes the latest technological advances. This system has a storage capacity of about 2.25 gallons and when in use it stands 19.25″ in height with a diameter of 8.5″. The upper chamber nests within the lower chamber for transport and stands only 13″ in height.
Configured with two Black Berkey® purification elements the system will purify up to 3 1/2 Gallons per hour*. This system can be expanded to use four purification elements and is capable of purifying up to 7 Gallons per hour*.
Just to give the proper credit: link
REI has a variety of water filters. One, for about $160 is a ceramic gravity filter with about 1 gallon per hour output and is good for many thousand gallons and cleanable. You might also want to add 10 drops of bleach per gallon for viruses, but it gets bacteria and cyclosporidia. There are other options for less money but needing replacable filters and with lower output. INFOMASS
Katadyn water filters are often used by aid workers in refugee camps.
We have the British Berkefeld filter with 4 Sterasyl filters. If I understand the information correctly, this filter will not kill a virus so our plan is to treat our water with bleach and then run it through the filter for drinking and cooking purposes.
Please read the instructions for making links at the bottom of the page so the mods don’t have to clean up your sidescroll.
Thank you, all! I have a Katadyn gravity filter (still in the box) with a 0.2 micron ceramic depth filter. Looking at the Berkey’s, tho. Don’t know enought to interpret the technology, and actually there’s very little info available. The tech specs I’ve found are pretty sparse (i.e. generic comments), which makes me wonder.
I don’t need huge capacity. I *do* appreciate the drip/gravity feature of both — figure we’ll all have enuf to do otherwise.
Melanie, Sorry for adding the long URL, but thanks for pointing out how to post correctly. I didn’t even see that down there till you pointed it out.
Rayne,
That’s what you keep me around for, innit?;-)
We have been using reverse osmosis water systems for about 30 years after a brief stint with a pain in the neck water distilling system. After reviewing my options for storing fairly large amounts of water for my family (about 450 gal. planned)and how we would be able to replace used stores, I researched the Aqua Rain (gravity)filter system after reading about it on the FW . I bought it on-line for $183 delivered about three weeks ago and am glad I did. Everything I read and have experienced thus far is positive.
I made my own using the food grade 5 gallon buckets and ***Black Berkey filters. So easy, even a guy could do it.
5 Pictures of Homemade filter
Picture of Black Berkey filter Picture of 2 buckets, one atop the other Picture of filter installed in Upper bucket Picture of bottom side of Upper Bucket Picture of Lower bucket (option spigot is shown)
VIEW at: http://gilmore100.photosite.com/album1/
In addition to their phenomenal reduction of pathogenic bacteria, cysts and parasites, the powerful Black Berkey® purification elements also remove or reduce harmful or unwanted chemicals such as herbicides and pesticides, VOCs, detergents, organic solvents, trihalomethanes, cloudiness, silt, sediment, nitrates, nitrites, heavy metals, foul tastes and odors. Yet they leave in the water the healthful and beneficial minerals your body needs. FROM: http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/be…le_purifier.asp (NEAR BOTTOM OF PAGE)
SCW AZ – at 21:54 - Fantastic! How long to get a gallon of water…two hours?
With the Upper Bucket filled pretty close to the top, it took 2 1/2 hours to “empty”. It doesn’t really get fully drained as the gasket and filter base keep the filtering media about 3/4″ from the bottom of the bucket. . .
So about 4 3/4 gallons with one Black Berkey filter in 2 1/2 hours. . . or about 1.9 gallons per hour for a full bucket, left alone. . . BUT. . .
BUT, since this works on gravity / “water pressure”, the more water in the Upper Bucket, the faster it works. . . If the Upper Bucket is refilled whenever the water level drops down 5 or 6 inches, you get almost 3.5 gallons per hour.
Fill it and leave it: 1.9 gal per hour Refilling it when it drops: 3.5 gal per hour
PLUS if you needed a higher flow rate, install extra filters. The capacity is only limited by the size of the buckets bottom
The above link didn’t work…
I searched the site and you can view it here
near bottom of page is the replacement filters 2 for $99USD
I have the MIOX anyone use that and is it effective
<i>If I understand the information correctly, this filter will not kill a virus so our plan is to treat our water with bleach and then run it through the filter for drinking and cooking purposes.</i>
Filters don’t kill anything, they filter it out — and viruses are too small to be filtered. A backpacking filter post-treats with iodine.
TC_in_CT – at 22:34 The above link didn’t work…
SORRY!!!
Would also reccomend the spigot, but MUCH cheaper at sporting goods stores replacement filters 2 for $72USD
MIOX looks interesting. A lot of the ads are convincing — any feedback on actual usage, pros and cons etc appreciated.
That’s weird… I checked it right after posting, and again (now) and it works for me.
The try it again… Link to storefront
on that page… 3rd row — 4th from left (in the group of pictures (links)
This is not “the best” but it works for me: the Katadyn drip Ceradyn filter. The advantage for me is that it is gravity feed. I just can dip from my stream and pour in the filter. I wanted something independent of the community water supply in case power and water fail.
got mine here: http://tinyurl.com/p4a69 Note: in canadian dollars.
Just as a comment, from extensive experience backpacking, water filters do NOT like hard water or silty/mucky water. They clog up quickly — I’ve seen one clogged to the point of uselessness in ONE backpacking trip over a period of 4 days.
Useful for a short trip. But my preference for water purification is:
1. Filter the water through clean cloth (a sock is good) to get out any large matter. Not necessary for clear water, but if you’re drinking out of a puddle …
2. Boil it. Giardia is hard to kill with chlorine or iodine, and is no fun at all — speaking from experience. Boiling is the one sure way of treating water, way more reliable than a filter (I’d FILTERED the water that gave me giardia).
If the water’s clear, that’s all you need to do. To get rid of the flat, nasty boiled taste, fill a bottle half full of the water and shake it hard for a few minutes. Add a flavoring of your choice.
3. If the water’s got a lot of suspended silt or organic matter in it, THEN add just a couple of drops of bleach to a bottle — a 2 liter soda bottle is good. It doesn’t take much; you’re not purifying the water. The bleach will cause the silt to precipitate out, leaving clear water. Pour the clear water off; the silt will be at the bottom. Add something like gatorade or make sun tea* to mask the bleach taste.
(*Just drink the sun tea right away. Sun tea is actually a good way to give yourself food poisoning — it will go bad if allowed to sit for days.) Leva
Cygnet,
From one canoist to a backpacker, I second everything you just said.
Giardia is endemic in every stream and lake in North America (it’s in deer poo) and you do NOT want to get this!
I have the Aquarain.
Comparable to the Berkey. Slower at 1 gallon per hour. But doesn’t slower mean better filtration? Price also much lower.
I also bought the $10.99 cloth pre-filter.
I just found a Canadian seller:
Notice Aquarain makes a ‘siphon’ filter, and it would appear that Doulton actually makes the ceramic cartridge for Berkey. Doulton has a counter-top (cheaper) model. I haven’t really checked thoroughly, since I already got the Aquarain, but suggest you check all these options out for your needs.
The AquaRain filters are rated at 0.2 microns (compare to British Berkefeld’s 0.9 micron rating. The Doulton is 0.5 micron.
I’m far from a pro on the subject, but before putting your water thru any water filter, filter it out by putting it thru a coffee filter first. This will stretch the life of those expense ceramic filters.
ANON-YYZ – at 23:51
Slower at 1 gallon per hour. But doesn’t slower mean better filtration?
It would depend on the size of the filters area.
Anyone know about filtering (Berkey) vs purification (MIOX)?
Can I suggest an alternative to filtering? Because of the large amounts of water needed during a pandemic quarantine, and because filters don’t kill viri, think about using germicidal UVC light to sterilise large quantities of water. There are UVC tubes that you can put into large water containers and stir it around. You must prefilter (coffee filters are good) the water if there is alot of sediment so the ultra violet light can zap all the virus.
UVC can also be used to decontaminate yourself and clothing after being outside. There are UVC tubes that fit into regular flourescent tube fittings. Set up a clean room where you come in and go out & leave the UVC light on to sterilize the room.
Blackbird – at 01:48 Anyone know about filtering (Berkey) vs purification (MIOX)?
I beleive MIOX uses batteries and creates a solution that is basically bleach.
Some people need to be aware t hat iodine can be dangerous if taken regularly (such as drinking certain filter/purified water) A lot of water purifiers (eg Katadyn) use iodine to purify the water. Iodine should not be ingested by some people (pregnant women, people with certain thyroid problems or dermatitis herpetiformis) Both chlorine and iodine tablets can be bought in hiking shops for purifying water, chlorine tablets are safer for pregnant women etc but leave a slight smell.
I chose a water filter/purifier called First Needs Deluxe which gets rid of bacteria and viruses. It’s made by General Ecology in USA and meets certain regulations - I can’t remember it all but if you do a Google you will be able to find more info.
Good microfilters ( < 0.3 microns) will remove bacteria and protozoa, but will not remove viruses.
Filter first to remove impurities and the above micro-organisms. Final stage should be application of bleach or iodine.
The MSR Miniworks EX received excellent reviews and is reasonably priced. Here’s a list of pertinent water purification products.
Alternate process:
If you have a micro-filter that also removes chlorine and iodine odors (i.e, it ‘also’ has an activated charcoal filter), then follow this process;
The guy who cleaned my 5,000 gallon rainwater tank said not to chlorinate the tank, but has supplied me with a stabilised hydrogen peroxide solution which he says is more effective and not residual in this application. I will chlorinate only before drinking and only when BF comes to Australia.
As I noted above - I purchased the Aqua Rain as my main water filtration system (adding food grade hydrogen peroxide or bleach as a backup) - I just got my laptop back from repair and found a great site in my favorites that collects data utilizing individuals that field test various pieces of camping/outdoor equipment and then provides their unbiased evaluation. I purchased an MSR mini-works based upon the reviews at this site and think perhaps some of you may find reading what others have to say about wide ranging outdoor products pretty interesting.
The other definitive source for survival info and gear reviews is Doug Ritter’s excellent site at www.equippedtosurvive.com
Please create a wikipage with all of this. We want high-tech as well as low-tech ways to get “better” water. Maybe not “perfect”, but “better” for as many people as possible. Let’s help others too.
Be careful with the water purification tables, Used them in SEA and was sick half the time, it could have been other issues as well but when ever I was able to get normal water (military potable) normally got better, of course I was also eat real food so that may have had something to do with it. That was the reason I went with MIOX. When I run out of stored water and the MIOX i intend to strain and boil water and set to one side for drinking. I will have lots of empty containers to but it up in. Do not want to use Iodione unless I have to.
I’m with you Majdad; I went with the MIOX because its a purifier vs a filter system. Also it comes with water test strips. I did find a review site of this product and learned two important tips. Sorry can’t find the site right now.
You don’t have to test your water each time you use it (strips are pricey) but once your source of water is tested as long as you don’t have any change to that source testing is not needed. You would test after say a major storm, or perhaps more usuage by people, animals or birds.
There have been problems with the brine (in the salt compartment) getting plugged and apparently there are a couple ways to overcome that problem. One is add a little water to the salt compartment and second (oh darn can’t remember now). It may have been to not tighten too much. I still have to experiment with it.
scw az - posted this Q on the other water/kiddie pool thread as well, but was wondering what you used for your filtration system (which is awesome btw) and where you bought your supplies.
BTW - can we get your system in the info section of the wiki? Mods?
It would seem that the first step in picking a purifier and/or filter is to decide where you are going to get your water, and what that water might be contaminated with.
For example, I forsee getting my water from the lake at the end of my (suburban) street. It is potentially contaminated with protozoa, bacteria and viruses, pesticides and fertilizers, heavy metals, organic debris.
I don’t think there is one system that can handle all of that, so I have a microfilter with charcoal to take care of most of the contaminants, and a purifier (bleach or MIOXX) to kill off the viruses. The charcoal isn’t totally effective against pesticides and heavy metals, but its better than nothing and hopefully this will be for short term emergency use only.
EverReady said: The guy who cleaned my 5,000 gallon rainwater tank said not to chlorinate the tank, but has supplied me with a stabilised hydrogen peroxide solution which he says is more effective and not residual in this application. I will chlorinate only before drinking and only when BF comes to Australia. This does make sense. When we first put in our pool, we used a line of products called Baquacil (more expensive than chlorine) and it really hydrogen peroxide. We eventually did switch to chlorine as it just seemed to put more of a sparkle on the water, but it would make sense that peroxide can kill germs too.
Sorry, I tried to separate the EverReady’s statements from my own above, but it had already gone thru. My thoughts start with, “This does make sense.”
Sorry about any confusion this may have caused.
Have a look at this website for helpful info. about how water filters work and pointers on how to put together a very simple, very cheap system using the same Doulton ceramic filters that the very expensive Berkeys use.
Our water storage is our in-ground swimming pool, so we a re adding the inline carbon filter and setting the system up in food buckets on our back porch.
Prepping Gal, the salt packet that comes witht he Mioxx seems awfully small. Wouldn’t you use up the salt in just a few uses? Where to get more are a decent price? Can you buy it in 5# bags at a retail store. It is just rock salt.
Comparing Mioxx to Berkeley? I understand that Berkely is a filter and Mioxx is a purifier. If I use the Berkeley to filter and then a bleach solution, will I not accomplish all the Mioxx does? Is the preparation needed for Mioxx a downside for the product? I’m trying to decide which to buy. Also, what are the possibilities for contamination? Is the H5NI virus possibly going to get into the water systems and the lakes? Or are people that are buying water filters planning to use them with “outdoor” water supplies? I need some advice from people who know more that I do!
They are called Black Berkey filters. . . But it is a purifier. . . by definition of how clean it gets the water. With the Black Berkeys you would ONLY use bleach if you felt the water was heavily contaminated. 16 drops per gallon beforehand. . . Strain water with t-shirt or coffee filter before hand and the BB will then remove the chlorine.
BUT, I’m a Black Berkey kind a guy. . .
The steri-pen is also an excellent choice. Liter at a time, uses batteries.
On the MIOX you can use regular table salt, (Iodized) I have bought a case of the 4Lbs boxes at Sams for it. Battries will be a problem. Found a source for the rechargable, with a 12 volt chargind adapter, Going to go solor to keep the battries up. You are right about the test strips, I may contact the company and see if I can buy them bulk have about 200 now would like at least a 1000.
Please note BEFORE I use the MIOX on the water I intend to filter it first if it is not coming from a known source (ie out of the tap with a boil water alert). Jost so you know I am going both ways on this.
anonymous – at 19:32 Iam bad did not put my handle MajDad
SCW AZ: I’m wondering about the possibility of a virus (H5N1?) in water. You suggest using bleach is water is heavily contaminated. What do you think about protecting against viruses?
Ok, let me see…..first I get the water hauled up from the lake, then I filter the large impurities out with cloth or a coffee filter, then I add Clorox & Iodine & I guess I let it sit for 30 minutes of so, then a few teaspoons of hydrogen peroxide to get rid of the Clorox taste, then I filter through my Big Berkey, then I use a UVC stir stick light to kill any viruses left…..have I got it right??
That would give me 7 gals of purified/filtered water every hour and half, not counting hauling time.
Is there any problem with mixing both Clorox and Iodine in water at the same time??
MSR miniworks is the filter we have selected based upon the reviews we have read and the engineering of the unit. We have 3 of them.
SCW AZ –
I already have a Big Berkey, so I have 2 questions:
Any real difference in the black or the white filters? (mine are the white ones)
Do the filters come with whatever attachement that holds the filter in place in the bottom of the bucket? My Big Berkey is packed up & I can’t get to it right now, so I can’t describe it any better than that….what holds that little bugger in place in the bottom of your bucket?
Great idea by the way, I just would never have thought about it, but it sure will speed things up!!! Looking forward to constructing my own! Thanks!
I’m-workin’-on-it – at 23:16 :
Black Berkeys are EPA Log 7 and the white ones are Log 4. This scale is kind of like earthquakes (Richter scale) in that 6 isn’t twice as good as 3 it’s by a multitude more. The downside is you are only good for 3000 gallons per filter as opposed to 60,000 for the older white ones.
The filter has a threaded tube that stickes out the bottom. Leave the washer on the stick, slide it thru the bottom of the upper bucket and it has a wing nut to twist it on.
My problem is finding out if it filters out Phthalate, which is the the chemical that makes PVC soft enough to be made into pool liners
The best water filter?
Its the one you actually have when you actually need it.
This should be right at the top of everyones prep list, don’t wait, spend as much as you can afford to get the best one you can afford - this is one of those “you get what you pay for” thingies.
The Miox is limited to treatment voume isn’t it? Seems to me I remember it was a liter at a time.
Is the First Needs Deluxe water purifier ok? It’s made by General Ecology in USA and they seem to have been certified as ok. They say it removes bacteria and viruses by filtering without using chemicals, has anyone had any experience using one of these? Thanks for any advice.
SCW AZ - Did you contact Doulton? They responded to my question immediately. I posted the link on the AZ thread. sam
05 June 2006 sam – at 10:29 WROTE SCW AZ - Did you contact Doulton?
REPLY: Yes I contacted Doulton and New Millenium (Black Berkey’s manufacturer), waiting. . .
05 June 2006 sam – at 10:29 WROTE SCW AZ - Did you contact Doulton?
REPLY: Yes I contacted Doulton and New Millenium (Black Berkey’s manufacturer), waiting. . .
SCW AZ - I heard back from Survival Equipment re the Katadyn Combi and they also said the Katadyn will work with pool water if used with the carbon. Looking at the products though, decided to go with the Black Berkey as it looked like it would be stronger and didn’t cost that much more.
Hope you hear soon. The kiddie pool would be a nice backup for us desert dwellers. sam
SCW AZ – at 00:26 thanks for your comments above about the differences in the Berkeys.
I have the white filters & will probably buy the black ones for the filter(s) I’ll make.
While we’re waiting to hear back from the manufacturers on the Phthalate issue, is there an adequate charcoal filter on the market that we can use, or do we need to be considering making our own? Got any ideas on how to make one? Maybe a third bucket for the water to flow through packed tightly with charcoal?
I’m-workin’-on-it – at 15:29
“Got any ideas on how to make one?”
I am thinking along these lines:
Get a 5 gallon bucket, perforate the bottom with many small holes. Get cotton or other fabric and make 5 bags the same diameter as the bucket and about half inch thick. Fill the 5 bags with activated carbon, and stack into the bucket. Place another bucket below to collect the water.
This becomes the phthalates pre-filter. What is unknown is how many gallons can I put through before replacing the activated carbon. The reason for 5 bags is so I would take the whole stack of 5 out. Empty the top bag, rinse, fill with new activated carbon, and place in bottom of stack.
Big unknown is there may be so much phthalates that it would be impossible to filter out. So CAUTION is warranted. This is just a brainstorm.
All,
I sent this to: technicalquestions@berkeywater.com
Waiting. . .
Myself and some friends are wondering if the Black Berkey filters remove the chemical DEHP. We are also concerned about Phthalates, the soft plastic (PVC) residue that leaches into water.
We are doing disaster planning and are interested in the use of cheap swimming pools as water storage devices. The cost per gallon stored is fantastic with pools, but as you know, they are not rated as food safe.
ANY help would be appreciated.
THANKS,
Thanks for taking the time to send that email.
Attempt to filter out phthalates from kiddie pool water:
I think Berkey, Doulton and Aquarain are all ceramic filter cylinders with activated carbon in the core. The ceramic deals with the bacteria, and the activated carbon deals with the organic compounds dissolved in the water.
In the case of the Aquarain, the ceramic can be unclogged by cleaning off the surface and will therefore last a very long time. However, the activated carbon core cannot be regenerated and it will saturate if there is too much organic chemical in the water. I suspect Berkey or Doulton would be similar.
I suspect using any of these ceramic cylindrical filter cartridges for phthalates will severely shorten the life of the cartridge, making it an expensive proposition.
My original thinking (ANON-YYZ – at 15:47 ) was to pre-filter phthalates with multi-layer beds of activated carbon. I talked to a manufacturer of activated carbon and was told that it is basically an absorption process which means that the ‘contact time’ has to be no less than 15 minutes.
Since it is absorption by contact, we don’t even need a mechanical filter set up. Let’s say we put some granulated activated carbon into a new clean sock, and let it soak for 15 minutes in water in a small container, it should achieve the absorption and we don’t have to engineer the ‘flow rate’.
When it’s done, put the water through the more expensive Berkey, Doulton or Aquarain which will then remove the bacteria and a final pass of organic chemicals.
Please don’t flame me for being crazy. If this is completely off the wall, help us with your knowledge. Let’s explore simple home grown solutions.
And it looks like you can buy activated carbon (OK for fishes at least) at Petsmart.
I found activated carbon specifically made for water supplies at calgoncarbon part number GW 12 X 40
They only sell to distributors. You can call 1–866–225–4660 to find out where is a distributor near you.
If you know of another drinking water activated carbon, please post here.
SCW AZ: I think your black filter is my future water supply :) some questions, hove does it react on humus (swamp red organic stuff in the water) does it clog quicly? ( I could make a simple prefilter for that takes care of most) and hov long does it last? is it keramic or charcoal flter?
Urdar-Norge – at 19:04
Use a coffee filter to pre-filter!!
Urdar-Norge – at 19:04
The filter is good for 3,000 gallons (12,000 litres)
Pre-filtering is recommended if the water has “funk” in it. You could even use a t-shirt as a pre-filter. No problem with clogging if you pre-filter.
If you think the water is badly contaminated they suggest 12 drops per gallon of UNSCENTED bleach, before filtering.
The outside is charcoal, but it is layered and I beleive(?) ceramic is one of the layers.
Urdar-Norge – at 19:04 I’m-workin’-on-it – at 19:07
Aquarain makes a cloth pre-filter bag for $10.99, made for muddy water to save on the ceramic filter. It’s washable.
It’s not advertised. You have to ask for it.
Ok. if the term humus is known, I will add the fact that chlorine and humus dont mix well. Some subtanses is created that is on the cancer list. Thats why mechincal filter are also a necesary when cleaning some well water and from smal lakes in swampy areas. link
so the black one is a mixture between ceramick, and coal then? I will then make a tripple can system, with cloth filter around a ceramic, then the black one, one level down (yike. I will need a ladder to get on the top..The web page i found dont have much info. Is it clear that this will also remove virues? Whitout the usage of chlor?
Filtering organics that have been leached into water from plastics is a different problem from filtering sediment (dirt particles, algae) suspended in the water. The larger particles of sediment will settle out if you wait a while; most of the rest can be filtered out using coffee filters or layers of cloth.
after reading some better web pages. Is it possible to replace the activated carbon inside the berkley? This realy look like the simplest and best methode of getting safe drinking water, it is so easy to build your self, and the filter are much cheaper than any UV system i have looked at :D happy solution on my birdinfested dear drinking humus swamp of a SIP watersource := Heck, I eaven think I will use this to get better drinking water in my flat as well..
Most every water filter on the market will not filter out a virus. To kill any H5N1 in the water (think ducks & geese) you need either strong UV light or chemicals. Since power for a UV water treatement filter may not be available it might be wise to rely on chemicals.
while there are better and more expensive solutions, as a back up, you can add plain ole Clorox, or the new Clorox Ultra, to the water to kill H5N1 and every other nasty thing in teh water. For info on both see:
http://www.rense.com/general2/watrpur.htm
An activated charcol water filter will take out the clorox and other cancer causing compounds that are now there as a result of chlorine reacting with some organic materials. BTW, this is basically what your municipal water suppliers do.
A bigger problem is sick or absent water workers letting the bad stuff, other than H5N1, that is already in the water through. How serious can that be? In 1993 a fault in Milwaukee’s system let cryptosporidium (worse than giardia) through and 400,000 people got sick, with a few thousand hospitilized and over 100 dying. If one gets H5N1 and cryptosporidium the death rate will assuredly be 100%.
For info on the cryptosporidium outbreak in Milwaukee, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Cryptosporidium_outbreak
If you need to filter your water, there is also a good chance you won’t have any water pressure, meaning reverse osmosis filters won’t work. You can build your own water filter by getting the appropriate filter cartridges for whatever you want to filet and hooking them up with a gravity feed. Put a tank (5G bucket with a fitting added) up high (roof, second story, hill, etc) and run a pottable water rated hose down to the filters and collection tank. You can buy all the parts at most any plumbing supply store such as:
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/filters.html
Somebody will have to do the math for the minimum elevation (pressure) required for a reverse osmosisi filter.
I believe that if you use Clorox in water, you’re supposed to follow with hydrogen peroxide — small amount — to remove the chlorine taste — read that somewhere here I believe.
SCW AZ, There seems to be two water threads going so I’ll post here too.
Did you use any type of sealant around the holes in your buckets and around the filter “nipple” to prevent leakage of contaminated water into the bottom bucket or between the top bucket and bottom lid? Sorry if that’s an ignorant question. I’m not quite sure how the filter actually does it’s job. Have you tested the filter and/or sent out any of your water samples? Also, what size drill bit so you get a nice fit for filter and spigot?
one thing that worries me — how do you know that you need to filter your tap water?
I assume this would happen because of illness (people not able to keep the water purification adjusted) or if the shipments of chemicals aren’t available. In other words, if things are bad. In that case, who’s around to notify and how would they do that (assuming concurrent power outages, and illness in other areas).
I’d call them. If you can’t reach a live human by phone, might as well treat and filter the water.
Public Health announcements would undoubtably be made via TV and radio news channels. Make sure you have a solar/crank powered radio with rechargeable batteries.
>I believe that if you use Clorox in water, you’re supposed to follow with hydrogen peroxide — small amount — to remove the chlorine taste — read that somewhere here I believe.
I can’t address that item, but if you acquire a micro filter that also has an activated charcoal filter, you can remove the chlorine taste by using that filter in the last step of the process. If there is significant sediment or other suspended particulate, let it settle out for at least 30 minutes, then pour the clear water into another container and dispose of the sediment. Treat the clear water with chlorine or iodine, then micro filter, as noted in my book online here at Fluwikie.
I have heard that hydrogen peroxide tip here somewhere also but I would be concerned that it may deactivate the chlorine somehow before it has a chance to do its job on the water. Where are the chemists when you need one….
If there is a major outbreak of pandemic BF in your locality you can assume the water workers will be affected too. That means there may not be anybody treating or checking on the quality of the water in the municiple system coming out of your tap. Better to treat and be absolutely sure of having uncontaminated water than not and be sorry. As I previously noted, if you get H5N1 and a water borne parasite you will surely die, no matter what else you do.
I forgot, here is a great link on overall water purification:
http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_Files/LTAH_Water_Pure2.html
and a link for a decent comparasion of some of the major brands of purifiers (although I wouldn’t be surprised if they left out things that competed with their very well priced offering) as well as a lot of good generic info on filter types:
http://www.thewaterexchange.net/filter_comparison.html
And here are a few more links from my water files:
What the EPA says: http://www.epa.gov/safewater/dwh/treat.html
http://www.crystalquest.com/ http://www.bigbrandwaterfilters.com/ http://www.epicwater.com/ http://www.doulton.ca/mast-idx.html http://www.h2owarehouse.com/ http://www.thewaterexchange.net/ http://www.pwgazette.com/index.html http://www.purewater4u.com/store/index.htm (one of the few that also has 12VDC pumps) http://www.seychelle.com/ (water bottle with integrated filter) http://www.softwater.com/faq.html#imp3 (a lot of good water FAQs) http://store.bigbrandwater.com/sterilightuv.html (UV light sterilization)
And if you want to store your filtered water: http://www.watertanks.com/default.asp
And if you want to measure how much water you have filtered to know when to change the filters: http://tinyurl.com/rh4lp
And an interesting link on a packet that will purify water where I haven’t yet tracked down a source for (help!): http://tinyurl.com/llxaa
And finally, with BF, a good tip to know about: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=38067
In the “old” forum, there was a thread called “re-visiting water filters”…maybe DemfromCT could open it up again :)
Someone discussed a product called Pool Shock and gave all the particulars for how to use it as you would use regular bleach to kill viruses, except that this product is in a pelleted form and could replace a ton of bleach bottles with only a small carton of pellets. You would have to make sure it is the type that is nothing but calcium hypochlorite and inert ingredients. There was a link to a governmental site in that thread that gave the formula for how to use calcium hypochlorite for emergency drinking water purposes. You can get something like 20lbs of pellets for 45 dollars at Walmart and that would probably be enough to treat your entire water supply for months. I do not want to ABSOLUTELY guarantee that it will kill viruses (I am not a water purity expert), nor do I recommend that you try this without independent verification. The site said to use a very, very, very, very SMALL amount of calcium hypochlorite and if done improperly, you could possibly even KILL somebody for all I know. Nothing was mentioned about the safety of the inert ingredients, which are supposed to be inactive (inert), but I can’t guarantee that they would be safe either since the government site did not mention its source of calcium hypochlorite. This information is provided for academic discussion only. You NEED to find the government website to determine if this is an legitimate option but you can pursue those details for yourselves, maybe with Dem’s help if he will re-open that thread.
As a person that spent almost 3 years on a island with no potable water I can tell you that clorox saved the day. I hate to say it but this was before water filters or at least befor we knew about them. We treated the water with the reccommened dose of clorox (6 to 16 drops per gallon depending of how funky you thought the water to be- we just used 6 to 10) and stir for a couple of seconds to diseminate (sp) clorox. Then let it sit for 12 to 24 hours in a open container. That let the clorine dissapate (sp? I am a bad speller-have you noticed? :-)) into the air. Then because the water was flat we would shake it up or whip it up to add oxygen back into the water. We even poured the treated water back and forth between 2 pitchers to add a little air. That gave it a better taste.
For those of you that are afraid of contaminated veggies and fruits- wash them with clorox water too. We used a stronger mixture, a couple of tablespoons per gallon if I remember right. We did this too because local produce was grown with uummm..human and animal fertilizer so parasites were a problem. Rinse veggies in clorox water and let them dry. No parasites and no bacteria/virus. Yes the lettuce taste a bit “fresh like clorox” but you are safe. I knew 3 years of living like this would come it handy some day. Some of the stories I have to tell!
oh boy, I can’t read all of this thread at the moment. do we talk systematically about the different things that need to be filtered/purified out? I notice some water filtration devices filter some things and not others. What is the most important contaminant to look for? Do i need two filtration/purification systems then?
RobT, where can I get one of those UVC purifiers for zapping virii?
eg., can we make a list here of the bacteria and viruses most commonly found in water streams, lakes etc. in North America that we need to take care of?
Here’s a list of what I’ve seen mentioned on this thread so far:
-chemical DEHP.
-Phthalates, the soft plastic (PVC) residue that leaches into water.
-protozoa, bacteria and viruses, pesticides and fertilizers, heavy metals, organic debris.
-pathogenic bacteria, cysts and parasites
-harmful or unwanted chemicals such as herbicides and pesticides, VOCs, detergents, organic solvents, trihalomethanes, cloudiness, silt,\\ sediment, nitrates, nitrites, heavy metals, foul tastes and odors.
-cyclosporidia
-giardia
-organic solvents, radon 222 and trihalomethanes
-nitrates, nitrites, unhealthy minerals such as lead and mercury
can we organize this into a better list and add to it or flesh it out? I mean, I have no idea which of these are bacteria or viruses etc. etc. and we need to know that sort of thing if we want to know what exactly our filter will take care of.
bump
Bleach kills everything, given enough time. The bigger the organism, the longer it takes bleach to kill it. Liver flukes and giardia, being multicellular, take a while; Iodine tablets work even better than bleach, b ut are more expensive and go bad relatively quickly.
Pressure cooking water works very well; the higher temp kills things that simple boiling won’t.
I am told that the EPA website used to show links to the standards for water purifiers and filters. Haven’t looked as I have mil-spec MSR ceramic filters and have not worried about them.
does bleach kill viruses too?
oops - viruses aren’t livign organisms. they are protein strands. so you can’t “kill” them anyway. I guess my question is, can bleach “de-activate” or render virii inert?
yes. Chlorine, being extraordinarily reactive will attack proteins of whatever sort. Virii are susceptable. to reiterate, bleach kills everything, eventually. Eventually is a long time for certain organisms, usually larger ones that ceramic filters can screen out.
SCW AZ - any response from Berkey re removing the phthalates etc. from kiddie pools? thanks, sam
i ordered several aquarain filters + the filter cloth from E.S.C.A.P.E http://www.escape-co.com/CONTACT_US.htm and they are not responding to my emails re why my order hasnt shipped. has anyone had any experience w this company? should i be worried? thanks
chivitopelon – at 17:06 - I found the below information on their FAQ page….if you get no satisfaction - call your credit card company or bank and have the transaction reversed.
ricewiki . you may also add “humus” it natural organics, rotten plants etc. it is not poisenus in any way, but gives bad taste and sour stomac. Problem is when this water is treated with chlorine, some bad stuff happends then.
thanks mmmelody47. didnt see these phone numbers.
Urdar-Norge – at 17:33
can you treat dirty humus water with bleach safely then? Can all humus be filtered out?
re ESCAPE CO.
those phone #s are defunct so i cancelled my charge and had new credit cards issued…
maybe theyre just understaffed for TEOTWAWKI but— poor business practice.
anyone have a good experience ordering AQUARAIN elsewhere?
shoutouts and props to all the most excellent wikians!
Can order directly from AquaRain at www.aquarain.com
chivitopelon – at 15:19
I bought from homestead products both the Aquarain 400 and the cloth pre-filter. I found the info from escape-co but bought from homestead
Check with aquarain to verify status of dealership.
Homestead address:
I ordered Big Berkey 2 filter from british company http://www.safariquip.co.uk/ (sell a lot of nice traveller stash, but after some days with no mail confirmtion on the Visa transaction I wrote them 2 mails, after no reply i sent a mail canceling. I then went to http://www.doultonusa.com/ found no info on shipping to europe, and sent a mail. Got a swift reply. The cost was 51$ for shipping. The billing with Visa was quick and nice. Their website is a mess, and you realy have to use some time to understand what the different filters etc fits togheter, but rest is fine :)
thanks, ya’ll. i ordered from:
info@everythingkitchens.com
which was 20–50 bucks cheaper than the others but forgot the filter cloth! i’ll check out the aquarain site.
uh, that would be “y’all.”
Bump in a thread closing session
Closed to maintain Forum speed.