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Forum: Is America the Only Super-power That Doesn T Make Its Own Vaccines

10 August 2006

WordSmithat 02:12

I can’t help but wonder how many Americans realize that the U.S. doesn’t manufacture vaccines any more. The last American company that did, Chiron, was sold to the Swiss when the company’s owners realized it was much less risky and more profitable to manufacture repeat-use drugs, like Viagra, instead. We have American companies researching various vaccines and production methods, but no vaccine manufacturing infrastructure in place to actually start making a pandemic flu strain vaccine when the pandemic starts. It means that we’ll have to line up, ALONG WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD, to buy vaccine from France and Switzerland. Right after they finish vaccinating their own dying citizens. Guess we know who the NEXT super-powers will be.

Bronco Bill – at 02:18

This has been brought up more times than I can remember…WordSmith, do a search for vaccines in the upper left of the page. You should get around a hundred hits…just on FluWiki. Also, you’ll find that the topic can be a little….politically polarizing. Not a good thing here.

WordSmithat 02:27

But…but…If we don’t get the news media to cover the issue (they haven’t touched it) and get enough public outrage to movtivate our government to begin domestic production… then aren’t we totally screwed?! The French and Swiss companies haven’t even been able to keep up with our low level, totally predictable orders for our seasonal flu vaccine.

Ima-Prepper – at 04:05

Politcally correctness and polarization is as much a problem as the lack of our own collective self reliance on the government in the impending threat of H2H H151 while relying on the same entity to inform us. In light of this one should not be afraid to step on toes and hurt feelings when the stakes are this high as long as it is factually on topic and not party driven. Yes it is a touchy subject, but history has shown that those who were once thought not to make an impact actually did when it was zconsidered taboo. How much are we willing to sacrifice or risk in the name of political correctness as to not cause waves?

WordSmith in a simple breif response, like many companies it’s been a sellers market for international buyers on all fronts. This goes for Private organizations as well as government to balance debts. It is quite justified to be concerned over. I find the matter deeply disturbing myself.

Ima-Prepper – at 04:23

H151 = H5N1

Trotting back to bed ;)

Racter – at 10:40

About half of the US supply of seasonal vaccine is made at the Sanofi Pasteur plant in Swiftwater, Pennsylvania, the other half at facilities in England formerly belonging to Chiron, now Novartis, which plans to construction next year on a new plant in Holly Springs, North Carolina. They hope to have it up and running by 2011.

Tom DVM – at 10:45

Racter. It seems to me that H5N1 would be considered a threat to national security because if one’s enemy had developed enough effective vaccine to protect their armies and citizenry…and you hadn’t…your position in the world could change significantly.

There was a public-private partnership to develop the Dr. Saulk’s Polio vaccine in the 1950′s…the name of the company has slipped my mind at the moment.

…Why couldn’t that model be followed today.

Tom DVM – at 11:12

The name of the laboratory was Connaught Laboratories in Toronto that I believe made all of the initial vaccine for North America. I believe it was shut down in the late sixties or early seventies.

I belive it was a public-private partnership with the emphasis on the public involvement and it was highly successful in its time.

Hurricane Alley RN – at 11:17

Tom, Where’s the profit? Like governments, we are talking big business here. No profit equals no product. By the time production could be set up, the pandemic would be over! gina

Tom DVM – at 11:25

Gina. One way or another I think we have a problem for this pandemic.

It seems to me, as a national security threat, vaccine facilities could be set up in less than three years.

It seems to me that with the onset of the 1980′s privatization was the rule and direct involvment for the public good by governments was a bad thing.

I agree that in some sectors that might well be true but specifically with vaccine and future threats not only from H5N1 but other diseases as well as Bioterrorism, direct public governmental intervention is required.

Think of 2001 and small pox. The type of laboratory I am talking about could be designed to be flexible and meet anyone of a number of potential threats requiring short turn around periods…less than twelve months…

If we get through the next few dedades without two or three pandemics and serious bioterrorism threats (foot and mouth, small pox or worse), I will be surprised…

It is time for some innovative thinking and bold planning…a difficult thing for narrow and tunnel visioned governments of today…but not in the recent past…

…you don’t have to look too far in the United States to see what bold thinking can produce!!

Tom DVM – at 11:28

Sorry, I mean to say that in twenty-years I turn out to be wrong then like Connaught laboratories (I believe it later became Norden laboratories) can be moth-balled.

We are going to face some significant disease challenges as the world climate changes and terrorists and countries that developed biowarfare components in the past…we might as well face it now rather than after the fact.

Private companies cannot provide the flexibility needed because there can be no garauntee of big profits like from Viagra etc.

Hurricane Alley RN – at 12:38

Tom, You are right, we are going to have many more problems than just this flu to deal with. Food, water and weapons of mass distruction. gina

anonymous – at 13:46

The US government is the biggest culprit here. They are the single largest purchaser of vaccines in the US and they have the clout to demand price discounts on vaccines and they get it. If vaccine manufacturers are not allowed to charge what they want to — to cover R&D and lawsuit risk and profit and unsold product/uncertain demand risk — then they will find something else to manufacture.

Catching the seasonal flu is very costly — we’re talking upwards of 1000 bucks depending on your insurance circumstances and whether or not you get paid sick days. So seasonal flu vaccine is very valuable to me. I want vaccine companies to be able to charge what the market will bear. If there are obscene profits possible in manufacturing flu vaccine, companies will be falling all over themselves to get a piece of that. They need to figure out a better method of distribution however. I wish we could order our own flu vaccine (pre-pay for it), have it delivered to Walmart or private doctor, make an appointment, and then let the pharmacist/doctor administer it. The manufacturers would not have the “uncertain demand” excuse. Healthy people should be encouraged to take the nasal version that does not involve a needle and they should be able to administer themselves without even needing to deal with a doctor. I’ll bet if healthy age-eligible people could order and administer the nasal flu vaccine themselves, we could have nearly universal vaccination for the seasonal flu. Old people would not have to stand in long lines for the shots because all the healthy young people would have already vaccinated themselves nasally. Besides maybe family doctors and health department would be able to handle the vaccine for the at risk people. Doctors should not have to tell patients to go to the corner grocery store to stand in line for a flu shot.

Tom DVM – at 13:50

anonymous. You seem knowledgable. Why not pick a name and stay…we could use your help.

My question is: are you sure the studies indicate that seasonal flu vaccines are effective…just because they can produce them does not mean they are effective.

anonymous – at 13:51

I should have mentioned that I know this is about the pandemic flu and I was talking seasonal flu, but I think that if we had a vaccine industry in place here with efficient distribution and profitability for the manufacturers of seasonl flu, we could be ahead of the game and we’d have the manufacturing capacity for the H5N1 vaccine.

Leo7 – at 15:39

I would like to add to what goes umentioned. Americans pay the highest prices for drugs and vaccines than anywhere in the world. We’re virtually slaves with these fixed price controls. Every other world citizen gets cheaper drugs as a result of Americans being extorted. If the US health care system ever goes national you can expect to see drug prices float up in other countries and there will be no more freebies.

WordSmithat 16:01

Racter (at 10:40) - You are right - the Sanofi Pasteur plant is located in Swiftwater in the U.S., but it is still a French owned company. Chiron WAS an American company (with the plant located in England), but sold the company to Novartis, which is Swiss owned. Thus the U.S. doesn’t own any of the vaccine producing companies, even though one is located here. I can’t imagine that the French company here would choose to sell the vaccines to Americans until after they vaccinated all of their own country first.

Another question - If only privately owned companies operating in the free market make the vaccine and can thus charge whatever the market will bear, how much will each vaccine dose cost when everyone in the world needs one right away to survive the pandemic? Will only the super-rich be able to afford them in the early waves? Cost, and some hope of logical and fair distribution, seem likely only if governments are producing at least some of the vaccines themselves.

anonymous – at 16:27

I sure hope that the first companies that come out with a good vaccine will be able to CHARGE OUT THE NOSE for it!!! They will make tons of money, the rich people can get vaccinated if that’s how it is, then people will come out of the WOODWORK wanting to start up a vaccine-manufacturign plants in the US. We might get one on every street corner. Before long competition will bring the price down, but I hope not so far down that the companies can’t make enough money to stick around for the next pandemic. I think they should make it policy that we all get the seasonal flu vaccine each year. Between producing that and the H5N1 vaccine, these companies should be able to make some money.

Hurricane Alley RN – at 17:45

Could it be possible that our government is’t worried about the production of a vaccine? Many military bases had laboratories before and during the cold war. I actually saw one of these labs when I was a child. For the most part, it had already been dismantled. I truely doubt the government trashed all of its labs and I also doubt it would take 5 years to build a manufacturing plant. If the vacine needs temperture control, then build a lab near a climatic hanger. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has thought of this. gina

14 October 2006

Closed - Bronco Bill – at 21:46

Closed to maintain Forum speed.

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