I had an opportunity this past week to visit with military personnel in two different branches, Navy on the West coast, and Army on the East about the Bird Flu issue. Although some of these folks were enlisted men, and some lower level officers, none had been given any information on Bird Flu or the need to have their families prepared for a potential pandemic. All had heard of the issue through the news, but no information through their respective military units.
I found this both surprising and a bit disturbing. Given the President’s November strategy speech and the US Government’s commitment, at least in words, in getting this nation prepared for a potential pandemic, why isn’t the military more involved? I would have thought they would have been well ahead of the game. One of the officers I visited with was in the medical field, although not directly involved in treating patients, and he has seen nothing of the subject from his Army surperiors.
Any military folks out there that can enlighten us on their preparation activities? I have to believe I just hit up the wrong units, and that there are lots of service men and women getting with the program already through their branches.
I would hope they test “simple masks” with folks who have just joined the Army and are not vaccinated yet. (Look for “simple masks” - they have a thread and a wikipage.)
My brother heads up a research and computer-modeling unit for the Army, both military and civilian employees. He and the other similar organizations that he deals with have extensive plans and materials in place. I can not be more specific.
Medical Maven – at 10:28
That’s great news, and certainly what I would have expected. I realize that you are not in a position to provide details, but do you know if there is any schedule that has been discussed or is publicly available that might indicated when these extensive plans might be shared with the service men and women on the line?
Confused Exec: I don’t ask my brother a lot of probing questions because a lot of his work is classified. If he volunteers something, I generally ask if the information can be repeated.
If they test simple masks I would hope they make the information available for everyone - in time for the whole world to benefit from such masks.
I’d rather see “simple masks” tested on those who refuse to serve our country instead of unvaccinated recruits.
Story in the base paper at Quantico, VA. They have held some exercises and have plans in place to keep things moving smoothly here near the capital. I don’t know more than that.
The National Capital Region Resilience Network is holding a simulation next week. I imagine the Pentagon will have people participating.
My son has been a member of the marines for the last 5 years. he has received numerous shots for many known and unknown things but never has bird flu been mentioned. His wife and son are given medical care on base and nothing has been mentioned by any dr’s they have seen. I told her about bird flu last month and she had no clue about it. I do know that he tests on gas masks once a year, but they leak. (ha)
They are planning on the medical end and I can’t say much more either.
I am a retired Navy Hospital Corpsman, so I don’t have any current first hand knowledge. My wife is a GS11 occupational health nurse for the Navy and is VERY interested in BF. She’s the one that got me going on the subject. Anyway, her impression of the Navy’s position on the subject is that it went from “it won’t happen and anyway it would be someone else’s problem” (this was last year) to the current of we need to be involved (at least from the standpoint of “protecting the fleet”). She attended a Navy occupational health conference in Virginia this March and one of the presentations involved a scenerio of a sailor developing symptoms aboard a destroyer after visiting an Asian port who gets transferred to the task group aircraft carrier when the ship without a doctor can’t handle the patient (one of the points made was that Navy medical personnel that could encounter BF need to be trained). The transfer to the large ship of course spread the virus because no one knows what is going on and precautions aren’t taken at first. She said that presentation really got peoples’ attention. My wife is now on the Navy’s email list concerning BF. Their preventive medicine unit in Virginia seems very knowledgeable and level headed in regards to BF and she is in direct contact with them. Where my wife works they do not have anti-virals on hand (small base), but have obtained the proper masks. She doesn’t know if the nearby Navy hospital has anti-virals. My wife believes a pandemic will happen. We are prepared.
Dumb question. Why all the secrecy? Seems a bit silly to me.
Whole Bunches – at 18:27
As I suspect, there are some very knowledgeable folks in the military about the Bird Flu issue, but no plan seems to exist for encouraging personal and family education and preparedness. I wonder what their trigger point is to act? (Different Thread, I know.)
So HHS and CDC are waving their respective hands in the air trying to get everyone going now with prep, while other arms of our government, including the military apparently, are saying “what’s the rush”? Makes you wonder who’s in charge.
OK, you military personnel out there that are lurking. Pass the word up the line - this is the real deal, not just another excercise. Time to prep is NOW!
im sure the military is preparing in someway for the bird flu, from what ive seen of the base housing it would be very hard for any family to prep. they are very small and most are connected to each other. most of them dont make very much money and have a hard time making ends meet, trying to prep just adds more strees. my daughter in law has had to move 5 times the last 5 years. each time my son is deployed she comes home, when he returns they have to request housing and are put on a list for next open unit. i feel it would put a lot of extra stress on our soldiers and their families who are trying to handle such extreme life changes during this time. i have tried to let my daughter in law know that i am prep for them and should the time come they will be taken care of. my son has the same attitude for bird flu that he had for y2k (its a joke). then he gives me the “if the time comes we will adapt and overcome” lecture. right now most of them are just worried about making it home (this is real for them, they are seeing it, feeling it, and living it) bird flu is a maybe (not on the high list of whats important.) just my thoughts on why the chain of command is not putting a lot of umph on bird flu.
I’ve been told by a reliable source that there are people in the Pentagon who are sh***ing bricks that the Iraq war is going to be to bird flu what WWI was to the 1918 flu. I have very high level sources here. I don’t know how well those voices are being heard, however, in a Pentagon which doesn’t seem to be hearing reality very well these days. But the voices are there.
DTEX – at 21:59
I fully understand all that you stated, and can fully empathize will our military families. My daughter is in exactly the situation that you describe. But my granddaddy served in WWI, and of all the things that he faced, and there were many, there is one that always stood out in his mind until his death at 96 years. And that was the 1918 pandemic.
The Spanish Flu did more damage to the militaries of all sides than any bullet ever could. It simply wiped out whole sections in a matter of weeks. His descriptions were chilling of the wholesale devastation. But he did not say much about the families left behind. Depending on whether they lived in rural or urban areas apparently made a difference.
So, I guess my position is, OK dear daughter, I love you and wish you had more financial means to take care of yourself, my grandson, and my grand? due in December, but for God’s sake don’t sit back and hope the military will act in a timely and effective manner on this issue. Save your pennies and prep the best you can. If worse comes to worse, I’ll get you home and safe somehow, but you need to take on some responsibility as well.
Again, if there are any military personnel reading these posts, pass on this URL to your friends and families. It will do quite nicely to keep you informed until our generals get their orders to act and prepare.
melanie, i had the same feeling when they sent in the marines a few weeks ago to help with the earthquake(i think)in indonesia, however i wonder if all the military have been given shots for bird flu. i know the sign a form allowing the government to use expermental vaccines. they are also required to have a full physical before the leave iraq and once home are under a 7 day medical watch. (its been that way for my son anyway). maybe they will catch it early.
birdman, is your daughter listening? i wounder about the attitude of the soldier and the soldiers wife. my son is in total denial. my daughter in law is strong. ive seen her cope with many a situation i didnt think she could handle. she has alerted her family (who live close to me) and has us doing family prepping. she told her mom that they would be at our house and not to come knocking (haha) so her mom and i have been helping each other. she is trying to get the word out on base but again its falling on deaf ears. most of their friends just cant see or cope with it happening. i dont know which. and once more the soldier listens to what he is told by his chain of command. something most of those young people are finding out means life and death. if his commanding officer hasnt said anything then its not something to worry about. im just worried about them. so far from home!!!
Military personnel do not take anything seriously unless the Leadership does. Generals tell the Colonels who tell the Majors who tell the Captains who tell the Sargents who tell the privates. Command does not care troops don’t care. Command is more concerned in getting them back alive from the war zones. Bird Flu is a maybe. To much on their plates at one time.
DTEX -
I’m not finding too many folks anywhere really interested in listening for very long. The subject is just not very pleasing to discuss. Sort of like sitting down and making that first will, nobody rlishes the thought, it’s just something you have to do.
But for our government to have credibility, it needs to speak with one voice. You should hear Michael Leavitt say something about the country’s stated pandemic strategy, and that should be closely followed by every military commander repeating the message to their troops. If Michael, as the President’s designated point person, is not taken seriously by the military, what are the rest of us supposed to think?
I hope this is not coming down to a generational type of issue where it’s us ole foggies sending out warnings to these young folks in the service and they just sit back and sip another cold one while they await orders. We desperately need leadership, and I had hoped someone out there would enlighten us that our Joint Chiefs do in fact have a plan and are about to pull the trigger.
Anon_451 – at 22:53
I’m with you, let’s get our troops out of harm’s way as soon as practical. But in the meantime, let’s don’t forget about the hundreds of thousands of military personnel that are stationed in the US. Nothing wrong with a little education and preperation now and again since they aren’t dodging bullets and land mines. Then when our personnel return from overseas, we will have already “trained the trainers”, and they can pass on all that good knowledge to their buds, hopefully in time to make a difference.
I have no particular knowledge of what the military thinks about a pandemic, but I won’t let that stop me from opining. From reading numerous posts on this board and others, I get the impression that people high in the food chain of many organizations, not just the military, have a growing awareness of how bad a pandemic could be. But they aren’t 100% sure that it’s going to happen. To prepare the masses would require massive allocation of resources and would likely cause serious economic dislocations. TPTB are not yet prepared to do this. So, I think they are quietly doing what they can without alerting the masses.
Monotreme – at 23:03
I do believe you’re correct with your suspicions. Bird Flu is like a wine before its time.
I guess we just need to be a bit more patient and let the issue work its way through the bureaucratic corporate and military processes. And of course, let’s give WHO and others a big hand of applause at keeping the lid on the threat. Don’t wish to allocated resources too far in advance, do we?
I know of several military medical people who have had their overseas orders cancelled, put on hold, etc. Don’t know if its across the board or just med personnel. Could be budget.?
Birdman,
I have every confidence that fluwikians will allocate whatever resources they acquire, wisely. The truth is, there aren’t enough resources for everyone (I crunched the numbers on rice some time ago). Who wants to break that news?
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the military is actively (read aggressively) recruiting medical officers for Iraq
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AVanarts – at 12:58 - I’d rather see “simple masks” tested on those who refuse to serve our country instead of unvaccinated recruits.
Hmm - hadn’t seen it that way - whereever your our country is ;) (I’m kidding in a friendly way. Really. It’s just that I’m not a US citizen and tend not to asume any specific our country. Sorry about my own personal bias!)
Seriously, I was considering the very small effect common flu has on healthy young people, versus the potentially useful information for all. A military situation has the advantages of discipline (to wear masks properly, among other things) so quite a few confounding factors would be out of the picture. Of course, as usual, research needs both ethics and practicality and scientific method and whatever else I’ve forgotten to mention. I have yet to see one idea of mine that cannot be improved on by most other people!
Volunteer recruits would be vaccinated as soon as the two month experiment ends.
Maybe use nuns instead? Community volunteers?
I’ve taken the mask subthread to where it belongs: Forum.CooperativeThinkingSimpleMasksPart3
I wonder how much hope has been placed on having the military around to help ‘keep the peace’ in the event of pandemic. Hopefully not too much. After watching the news over the past few days it seems like the Army/Air Force/Navy/Marines are going to be very busy for awhile.
When I started reading FluWikie back in October/ November 2005, the first article I read was from an employee at Health and Human Services in Washington DC. She had just attended a large seminar in her office building where a few Military speakers were enlightening them on safety measures to protect themselves during a flu pandemic. They were shown how to don face masks, etc. Someone in the audience asked if the US Military would be supplying the face masks. etc. The response was that each US Agency had to prepare their own supplies.
So the Military has been preparing for some time.
However, I spoke to a cousin in the Coast Guard (stationed in DC at the time and now on patrol in san Francisco) and he has not been presented with any health information concerning the avian flu.
smitty,
I’ll guess AF hasn’t gotten very far down the chain of command yet. The services tend to be just in time, tell you only what you need to know right now cultures.
I have several members of my family in different armed forces, they don’t know anything. My BIL just shipped out to Iraq few weeks ago. He told me they will get the flu shot for the bird flu and my sister doesn’t prep, her daughter, my neice just had a baby last friday and her husband will be shipped out soon and none of them believe the BF will be serious. They firmly beleive that the gov and military will take of them. I gave up sometime ago trying to convince them. My brothers are ex-military they also are not prepping. Before I even had a chance to mention it to a brother of mine that lives out of state he called to tease me. My parents had called and told them I was stressed about it. All I did was send them links and asked them to read it.
Closed to maintain Forum speed.