This thread is started to give people a place to post information they are hearing from colleagues, people in various businesses / industries, or from foreign countries. Perhaps it will assist some in “connecting the dots”, or deciding on further course of action.
A couple days ago I was on the road, and stopped at a business that looked like a feed mill, as I wanted to check out feed prices for possible future raising of some meat. The man I spoke with turned out to be either the owner or manager of the mill, and was very friendly…he told me the mill was actually for human food not animal, and that they fill a niche market for stone-ground corn meal, grits, and other corn products commonly eaten in the southern U.S. This is a condensed version of our conversation.
He asked, “why are you asking about this?..just this morning 4 or 5 people have been here asking the same question”. Answer - well, we are concerned about the quality of the meat supply, and are considering doing something ourselves. He replied, “well, you want to know what really has me worried, is this avian bird flu problem.” My ears prick up - this comment from him was entirely unsolicited - I tell him we are also concerned about it, have been following it for over a year as part of my work, and that I no longer hesitate to encourage 3 months of preps to whoever will listen. I asked him, has your company done much to prepare? He answered OH YES. I asked, have you done some cross-training? His answer - we have already finished doing cross-training…one of our primary concerns is to make sure our employees keep receiving their paychecks…we need to keep our production going, both for our employees sake, and to keep food moving into the pipeline, into the grocery chains. I asked, do you happen to know if the grocery chains are also preparing? He answered, yes they are. I asked, are they doing cross-training? He answered yes, it’s his impression they have or are doing that. He also made a comment that he, as well as the grocery chains he deals with, have geared up their production levels and/or inventory of goods in preparation for what might be coming.
beehiver – at 09:59
What state was this feed mill in, if I may ask?
anonymous at 11:39. The feed mill was in North Carolina.
good report beehiver.. sometimes I think the pot is brewing in a different manner. a bubble of prepping here and burst of prepping there. Prepping breaking out all over the place :-)
I believe our grocery stores are doing their part. (Western Washington state) . Our Safeway has had canned soups on sale (including the primo brands that are rarely on sale) and the Fred Meyer had a big end cap with gloves and santizer and tylenol on sale — an odd combination for an end cap on normal days.
I live in Western WA also. Our stores are providing 25–50 lb bags of rice and beans. Never in grocery stores before. All three grocery stores have remarkable sales on prep items each week.
Recently had an annual termite inspection of our home. In the course of this the inspector apparently noted our preps stored in various areas (store room, basement, etc.) and mentioned to my husband — oh, you’re prepping too?? Said he and his wife were doing so as well.
So maybe more people are than we know.
Olymom, our major Drug Store here in the Northeast had an end cap with the gloves, sanitizer and tylenol also. With some sign saying ‘flu season is coming”. That would have been fine - except for the disposable gloves. My prepping “red flag” went up when I saw those.
I agree. It’s not so much the items, but the way they are being grouped in stores that makes me take notice.
I know the owner of several charter schools in South Florida — they all have a plan and have distributed posters, letters to parents and are training students about hygiene. My DH’s high school has a bird flu committee (he is on it). They have already instituted over the summer a computer telephone communication network to inform students when school is closed etc. Already used it once for Hurricane (tropical storm) Ernesto but was implemented as a result of bf planning. A little here, a little there :)
I don’t hear anything much, here in Kentucky. My teenage daughter said that I ought to get together with the mother of one of her friends. We are both whacky types prepping for bird flu, apparently. The school has a plan created by our school nurse after she went to a regional meeting, but nothing by way of public education is happening. No letters home. Nothing.
My hospital in Iowa is hosting a Joint Commission Emergency Preparedness Rally day sometime in November which will include BF as one of the topics… I’ve asked to be part of the planning for this event. And during orientation for new nurses last month, the epidemiology speaker mentioned BF and how the hospital is beginning to prepare.
The UK is not doing any prepping. There is no advice to individuals to stockpile a two week reserve. There is no governemtn led cry for buisness to plan (except for the global multinationals). There is nothing but silence.
So if any reader of the wiki is in a position to know the answer, can they tell me why there is no UK/ EU government action or drive to encourage its citizens to prepare? After all we are not self sufficient in food as a nation - 4 days to starvation, I beleive the expression is. What magical mystery plan is there to keep everything rolling and solve such fundamental questions. If we are relying on our EU counterparts to keep the food supply moving (assuming production can be maintained with a 50% staff absenteeism rate), how sure are we that this will be maintained? I cite the example of the ORIGINAL plan for all EU states to donate Tamiflu to create an EU wide strategic stockpile, which was thrown out and replaced with ‘every country for itself, and we will all keep our own stockpiles, thank you!’.
In a bad pandemic, why do they have so much faith that life will be any different for food and essential goods supplies?
flumonitor,
Good questions, about the UK. It looks to me there is resistance at the very top political level, at a point when Tony Blair’s position is shaky and Gordon Brown’s not there yet, and everyone else either has their knives out or are keeping under the radar to survive the next ‘leadership crisis’. I suspect we won’t see any voluntary shifts in the government’s position until at least 8–9 months into the next Prime Minister’s term, minimum.
Sorry to be so pessimistic.
One of my kid’s schools now have sanitizer stations set up in each class. The kids use the hand-sanitizer on entering and before leaving each class. Middle school. The High School is not doing this, even though they have the on-site health center with NP and MD. I will be speaking to the HS health center about starting hygeine practices now.
Anon 22 - thank you for your response and I agree that it is felt not to be politically expedient for this issue to be raised by government nor its members. Let us hope that H5N1 gives us 9 months before it gains transmissibility. However, where are the opposition voices? An unprepared UK will damage the economy to a far greater extent in a country that is unprepared, compared with a country that is prepped for continuity, fom the local farms to stores to transport and to water supply.
I apologise for the rant, but my frustration over this issue and inaction is reaching a very high level. Everyone thinks the pandemic threat is another Year 2K, i.e. a storm in a teacup, and one that has all but gone away. I believe the government thinks they have it covered, and they dont. Many of the planning assumptions have been unduly optomistic and unrealistic, and planning has not been led from centre. Each area has been left to go it alone. I worry.
KMC RN…
Where in Iowa?? I know our local hospital’s ER RN pooh-poohed my questions about their prep plans.. telling me it should only be worrisome to elderly and if it was a concern their contagious disease nurse would have let them know. BTW the one & only ventilator in the whole county is there!
I mentioned this other places on the Fluwikie, but I was involved in planning for our community Y2K response. The Emergency Service Board did create a booklet for Y2K, in case the power went out etc,,,but little was actually carried out by the town fathers anyway. I also taught preparations in the local fire station, out of over 30 thousand people, about 20 attended each week and most of those were regular ones. This time around, I am not approaching anyone (although did try to get the manager of the school district informed to no avail), I think that most local gov it is beyond their activity,except to give out information to the public but even that is most lacking. I really think that most of the United States will just be SOL, when this happens, and the finger pointing will be going on big time…..that is if any one has the energy to finger point.
Gary Near Death Valley – at 17:44
My experience, actions and now attitudes mirror yours.
Our county health department is having an educational seminar for all the school nurses soon, and offering optional training to become a presenter of the states pandemic education plan. (it’s tepid to me but heck, it’s something)
Hoping the subject ‘breaks’out more after that. Nothing at all brewing that I can see, no super-preps at all in Southern NJ.
Where I work is next to the Chinatown section in Philadelphia so……
flumonitor – at 17:12 Anon 22 - thank you for your response and I agree that it is felt not to be politically expedient for this issue to be raised by government nor its members. Let us hope that H5N1 gives us 9 months before it gains transmissibility. However, where are the opposition voices? An unprepared UK will damage the economy to a far greater extent in a country that is unprepared, compared with a country that is prepped for continuity, fom the local farms to stores to transport and to water supply.
I apologise for the rant, but my frustration over this issue and inaction is reaching a very high level. Everyone thinks the pandemic threat is another Year 2K, i.e. a storm in a teacup, and one that has all but gone away. I believe the government thinks they have it covered, and they dont. Many of the planning assumptions have been unduly optomistic and unrealistic, and planning has not been led from centre. Each area has been left to go it alone. I worry.
I worry too. I’m very frustrated, but a short while ago I made a conscious decision to suspend that frustration for the moment and intensify my US-related activities for the moment, since I wasn’t getting anywhere in the UK. We can do with a lot more voice, even on this forum. There was for a while a steady group of UK posters, but now it seems that they have either left, or are lurking, or simply no longer bother to continue posting on UK-related threads.
We can’t win all the time. I’m heading where the going is good - path of least resistance :-), and will have to backtrack and deal with my own country at some point later. Oh well…
Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing!
I live in a very small town in the plains…texas panhandle. It’s several decades (not exagerating) behind the rest of the world, so the fact that they know nothing…or care nothing about bird flu isn’t too surprising. They live on ranching and oil money and haven’t really come out of the 1950′s. A recent article from Amarillo, TX …”the big city” stresses over and over again that there is a very “slim” possiblity of bird flu becoming a pandemic. Where I’m at is an hour and a half and a time warp away from there. People here won’t believe they will have to worry about a pandemic until 1/4 of this population is already dead. It really makes me wonder if this is the prevalent attitude in America’s Heartland..(where most of the worlds food comes from)…we might be in trouble.
On September 14, about 50 leaders from various Limestone County organizations gathered at the Limestone County Courthouse to hear more about the possible approach of a flu pandemic and what needs to be done to get ready for it. A pandemic is a catastrophic illness which can go on unchecked for months because there is no medication developed that can stop the mutant virus that feeds it. It can take pharmaceutical labs six to eight months to develop an effective medication to contain the virus. Citing the 1918 flu epidemic which killed over 6,000,000 Americans as an example of a pandemic, Limestone County Emergency Management Coordinator Matt Groveton opened a panel discussion open for audience participation by stressing how urgent it is toget prepared for a pandemic. He said, “The pandemic is one airline ticket away from reaching the US. With the military shuffling troops in and out of the country, it might come from that direction”.
There’s more… [http://www.groesbeckjournal.com/story2.shtml|Pandemic Planning in Texas]
Oh guys, I was at such a low point until I saw this. I grew up close to here, and would have never thought Limestone County, TX would be blazing a trail - yet, here they are! I’m jazzed!! And I’m sending this to all of the counties around where I currently live, to follow up with the folks who thought I was a fearmongering lunatic six months ago.
Just a few more places like this that get on the bandwagon, and people are going to start paying attention.
Sorry about the link, but it still works.
America’s Heartland..(where most of the worlds food comes from)…we might be in trouble.
What do you mean by this?
Blue – at 07:33, What I think MLBIT meant is that the central plains of the U.S. (America’s Heartland) is the breadbasket of the world. A pretty good chunk of the food the world consumes comes from the plains states. If this area is hit hard by panflu to the point where it can no longer produce the food we all eat then we as a country, and to some extent the world, will be in trouble.
But,…in my opinion the central plains are in a better position to weather the storm even though there are areas not paying attention to the issue right now and not prepping. By virtue of the greater geographical distribution of the population and a greater ability to be self sufficient, not to mention a more cohesive community spirit, this area should be able to muddle through. It will still be terrible beyond belief, but the situation won’t hold a candle to how bad it will be in the mega-cities of the east and west coasts of the U.S.
On a different note, I believe the news about bird flu and the need to prepare has spread through the U.S. population to some extent like one of those urban myths we have all heard about at one time or another. Only with this news, when people look closer they come to realize that it is not an urban myth but a danger beyond anything we have faced before. I believe there is a lot of prepping going on under the radar, both individually and in business.
The pandemic plan I wrote for the small non-profit I work for was approved by the board and the executive director has already purchase ppe supplies in anticipation to a shortage of these types of things. (I had forwarded him an article in U.S. Today that discussed how large corporations were starting to buy up these types of supplies, and how they were starting to become scarce and hard to find.) He is a great boss and took the initiative and purchased them now so we would have them later. I think this sort of thing is happening all over to some extent. This is good. If we have sufficient time, maybe it will become widespread and many people will be prepared when the H5N1 monster reveals itself.
Houston area--- retiree’s being called back into petrochemical plants. (I don’t know how many… or the extent.) Apparently, there are not enough experienced people. I was told it had “something” to do with pandemic preparation, as well as “other” stuff… as well as cross training. (?????) I’m not sure how much to make out of this, but thought I’d throw it in the mix. Seemed like the thread to throw the info into.
Thanks EnoughAlready, this is exactly the kind of report envisioned for this thread…these not being rumors but small events actually happening, that will help people connect the dots.
Beehiver, as long as you have your pencil out, here is another dot for you: the State of California has recently signed a contract to purchase $19,000,000 in respirators. That is, nothing but respirators. Undoubtedly, California is also sourcing other personal protection equipment, but I happen to know about this particular contract because I was involved in making this deal happen. I’m sorry that I can not disclose any additional information, but surely this purchase is now a matter of public record.
Does anyone know about any other PPE California is trying to buy?
Deep South state looking into additional respirators (not the PPE masks, but rather devices that assist in breathing) for emergency rooms and ambulances. Has talked to some national respiratory groups on most minimally effective/cheapest type to buy and basic minimum training needed. Mulling through liability issues for EMS/other ambulance medics and first responders on use of these respirators/trying to balance training for many, many that would allow them to use such equipment according to established guidelines.
Anon 22 About 2 weeks ago there was news here in my uk city that birds were just dying for no reason apparantly flying into thins and dropping dead there were 2 or three clusters of birds left rotting one lot in stafford i got on the local radio frequencies that it was the hot weather we had had and was not avian flu related defra had been called and local people said they had been phoning for a week for the birds to be collected and as there was no collection i was wondering how they could be so sure what they died of.They cannot collect due to lack of money and cuts.There are quite big die offs due to the hot weather we had all nothing to worry about.I have not heard anything since and was wondering if you had since i have been alive 50 or so years i can say i have not seen birds fly into things then drop dead before
Anon 22 About 2 weeks ago there was news here in my uk city that birds were just dying for no reason apparantly flying into thins and dropping dead there were 2 or three clusters of birds left rotting one lot in stafford i got on the local radio frequencies that it was the hot weather we had had and was not avian flu related defra had been called and local people said they had been phoning for a week for the birds to be collected and as there was no collection i was wondering how they could be so sure what they died of.They cannot collect due to lack of money and cuts.There are quite big die offs due to the hot weather we had all nothing to worry about.I have not heard anything since and was wondering if you had since i have been alive 50 or so years i can say i have not seen birds fly into things then drop dead before
Well, one way to get around having a problem (like avian flu) on your hands is not to find the problem.
And if they didn’t test for it, they can honestly say “there is no evidence that….”. Which for most clueless journalists means exactly the same as “there isn’t….”
They then claimed after leaving the birds to rot due to lack of funds to collect them that they were so decomposed as they could not test them anyway but they are positive it is not avian flu related
At least worth mentioning:
One of my granddaughter’s teacher told us that last Thurs & Fri half her kids were out sick. She had 12 kids in her class. She told us the schools are full of this stuff. (coughing, vomiting, diarrhea and fever… some combination of one or all)
Schools tend to get wiped out a few times of year with ‘crud’. And that’s just basic crud. Imagine something stronger.
Europe doesn’t exist. It’s all different places, with no common thread running through all the member states.
A couple of us have been trying to populate http://europepanflu.blogspot.com/ but it has not been updated for ages, due to lack of response. Maybe people don’t use the internet in Europe?
So far I’ve counted 4 Europeans on this thread. Mostly in the UK.
heard a presentation on Wed. from a group just returning from Cen. Africa. People their dying of many desease. Primary cause is contaminated water soure. Plan to return and dig wells in villages. Most saddening was the statement that most of the African villagers they met this trip will may not be alive when they return in a year or so.H5N1 is just a number in line of many things killing these forgotten people. And a plane ride home with the missionaries to small town USA.
Toll-booth workers will start wearing latex gloves. Not sure when this starts.
And the holidays coming up - vast numbers plane traveling. Thanksgiving, the most widely traveled holiday of the year?
Lisa-I know a school nurse here in Arkansas, she said the hand sanitizer in elementery schools was fairly standard here. They do not do it in the high schools due to students being so uncoopertive.
Arklatex at 2:24 It’s sad they don’t try in the high school, in my H.S. classroom the students sometimes come in just to use the Sam’s club size bottle of hand sanitizer on the desk. They certinly use it frequently during class time. I do encourage it as we are a school of 2000 + students-very densly packed. I have to provide not only the hand sanitizer but also the kleenex! I don’t mind, but many teachers don’t bother even with the kleenex. Heaven help us if they are late shutting down our school! It would go through like wild fire. Yes , I am the only one talking about BF. My school nurse pals think it’s nothing to be concerned about!
Flumonitor - There are other people prepping in the UK, there is just not many. Also, I put it down to the fact that the UK is in such a priviledged position. Here, we have, no hurricaines, no tornados, no poisonous anything (only country that I’ve ever lived in that people pick up a spider and carefully place it outside and not stomp on it), no earthquakes and no wars since WWII, the fact is that this sort of crisis is plain uncomprehensible, don’t you know IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!! (eyes rolling). Honestly, I have given up, I have enough preps for my family for 3 months. I will bunker down and keep my family indoors and anyone comes around will get wasp spray in their eyes!
I send you a big hug because I know how lonely it feels.
Flumonitor and Crazy Lady - why don’t you start a separate thread just for the UK and see how many posters you get - it may be a nice surprise. We did the same thing for Australia and New Zealand and we each post little things of interest particularly down under or ask each other questions.
Also, having your own thread might encourage others to take a look …
Sorry, off topic.
On topic, there does not appear to be any pick-up in pace here but there is still plenty of public campaigning planned by the Ministry of Health.
bump
One of my wife’s co-workers said that her daughter was on a committee at school to raise awareness about pandemic flu. This woman told my wife that her daughter was really passionate about the dangers and because of her concern she and her husband had begun stocking up on food (no mention of water). She said to my wife, “This is really something that could happen!”
My wife said, “Yeah, that’s what my husband has been telling everybody (including you) for almost a year.”
I called the California state Office of Emergency Services to speak with the person in charge of pandemic preparedness. I told her about the FluWiki, she had never heard of it and didn’t sound very interested. It was a disappointing conversation.
I sent a friend the following links:
He told me “I wouldn’t go to work if I were a HCW”, and asked about stocking up.
Ah Lugon, you are a dear for putting these links to the graphs in one place, I’ve been looking for them to give to some local officials. Thanks very much for the time-saver.
Commonground – at 15:00 Olymom, our major Drug Store here in the Northeast had an end cap with the gloves, sanitizer and tylenol also. With some sign saying ‘flu season is coming”. That would have been fine - except for the disposable gloves. My prepping “red flag” went up when I saw those.
C-ground -Which chain was that? I was in both my local Shaws and Stop&Shop last night and don’t recall seeing anything like that.
I wonder about stores. Saw two ill children in their p.j.s being trucked around the local supermarket by their mothers. both about 10. One girl lying with covers in the end of a shopping cart, the other shuffling along in her p.j.s and robe. What is wrong with these women. Their neighbors would shop for them if the children are ill.I wanted to say something but was too polite.
Diana, perhaps this woman doesn’t have the right kind of neighbors- I didn’t when my daughter was small. There were times when we had almost no $ to buy decent food - never mind stock up anything, I had no family and no neighbors I could trust to either shop or watch her. So I had to go out to get food when I had the money no matter what, and had to take her with me. I did dress her though.
beehiver – at 11:17
blush
beehiver - i think i’ll place the links in “explaining pandemics” - i even thought of wearing the charts on a t-shirt
Cinda and Common Ground. I saw the end cap of gloves, ibuprofen and hand sanitizer at a Fred Meyer’s here in Olympia, WA. Fred Meyer’s is a grocery/big box store that operates in at least Oregon and Washington (maybe Idaho too?). I have also seen a lot of soups on sale at our Safeway and juices at Top Food.
The other night (11 p.m) I saw a pretty good commerical from our WA Dept. of Health. A woman is walking into a grocery store. She coughs on her hands and green sparkly stuff is now shown glowing on her hands. She proceeds to leave green sparklies on her grocery cart handle, the apple she picks up and then puts back (ugh) and on the touch key pad and she uses her debit card. I was impressed. The items were all hard surfaces — the final message was about “flu” season is coming (nothing special about the “flu”) It’s a start. Wish they’d run it as often as Prilosec OTC and ED ads . ..
Sorry if I touched a sore spot in your life Cinda. I guess I have always done what I could to help out a neighbor, so expect people in an area like ours would help out. School friends or so on. The children I mentioned were really very ill. I think our churches will shop for the elderly or anyone who needs help. I realize that my experiences are not everyones, and again apologize for bringing up any memories of rough past times.( Believe me I have been down to my last dime many times.)
Local grocery store is offering pneumonia vaccine. I thought that was odd. Never seen them do that before. Flu vaccine, yes. And, in September they started doing this!
I do service work in 8 hospitals in 6 states. NONE of the plant maintenance managers have had any preparations for extended problems. Discussing massive use of ventilators with one and he laughed. He has exactly 6 power strips in stock, the chain his hospital is in is having austereity measures for any kind of spare equipment. This alone would not allow many more ventilators be used, if they had any, which they don’t. Assuming they had any more ventilators or other support equipment requiring power for sick people, Home Depot better stay open and stocked.
EnoughAlready @ 00.55 - Just this morning I heard our local radio advertising flu shots at various Kroger supermarkets. The independent pharmacy two blocks away is also offering them, too.
My pharmacist said it is best to have a “fresh” flu shot at the end of October, versus the beginning of October, as they are more effective right after they are taken, and you want to time a flu shot as close to the beginning of the infectious period as possible. Can anyone verify the validity of this? I also read somewhere else that flu shots are good for about 6–8 weeks. Does anyone have scientific data supporting / refuting this?
Calandriel:
I thought the shots required a few weeks to become effective.
Calandriel:
We are always given ours (HCW’s) the end of Oct or first of Nov.
I travel weekly, so my employer has provided me with a wireless-capable laptop. On Monday, during a staff meeting, there was a lengthy presentation on how we are going to operate in a pandemic. Personal protection equipment was discussed, but the plan in my department is for as many as possible to work from home. Then it was announced that everyone in our department will be given a laptop— even those who do not travel. (I have probably mentioned this before, but our company sells emergency supplies to FEMA, the Red Cross, the U.S. military, et cetera, so I am assuming that we are developing a plan that will address the needs of these entities.)
At the end of our staff meeting, several people seemed quite disturbed and worried. If they did not have a PPF before, they certainly have one now. My PPF is 9. After TomDVM’s recent prediction of a 10% CFR, it will probably remain there for quite a while.
Near the close of our staff meeting, I inquired about the company’s plan to advise its 15,000+ employees of emergency preparations. Our upper management has been advised by our legal and HR departments that the company should not offer advice for indivisulas and should just stick with whatever will keep us operational. So, after the staff meeting I reminded (yet again) most of my department about Flu Wikie. Some of these folks were blind-sided by our company’s roll-out of pandemic planning and Flu Wikie will give them some guidance. I would like to offer my advice to them and share my literature, but I have already been cautioned against doing that.
I forgot to mention that my company’s official stance on personal preparedness is to refer employees to pandemicflu.gov. When they stated that in my staff meeting, I countered by noting that the Feds only recommend a two week supply of food and water.
It’s easy to see who is driving the bus here.
Dr Dave I am sorry if I alarmed you with the 10% CFR. That would put the virulence of H5N1 in the same approx. level as H1N1 (1918).
However, there are two components to a pandemic virus, virulence and transmissibility…it is possible to have higher virulence than 1918 and lower transmissibility…
…that being said, we have had 3 of 6 pandemics in the last 200 years comparable to 1918…I expect all of them came directly from birds as did 1918…this is a norm rather than an exception…and I expect that H5N1 will follow the norm for influenza’s hopping directly from birds to man…a similar outbreak to 1918.
What bothers me the most about this…at the moment?
I think this is the first time in recorded history that an influenza virus or any virus for that matter has infected this many species of animals at the same time…
…it is possible but unlikely that we could have a die-off of several mammalian species at the same time…
…however, this would be very unlikely.
Tom DVM at 10:46-Yes, simultaneously would be unlikely, but I could see sequentially.
Tom DVM Thanks for the clarification. Nevertheless, very scary. I’m still holding at 9.
Medical Maven.
I agree but zoonoses go in both directions at the same time.
In that case, humans become the vector between birds and other mammalian species…as in 1918, it would rapidly get in pig herds…first H-P and then P-P.
In other words, it may happen sequentially but the sequence time period may be so short as to be invisible.
Other than the fact that I really like pigs, this could result in serious food shortages.
lWith multi-species infections at the same time, you also have the potential for one population being the wick for another…maintaining the forest fire by jumping back and forth between species.
Tom DVM-How about this Tom. Simultaneously in “Human time” equates to Sequentially in “Viral time”. The little buggers just run rings around us.
Bingo!!
EnoughAlready at 00:55
I noticed the same thing in an Albertson’s grocery store here in southern California. Flu shots are normally given this time of year but I have never noticed pnuemonia shots offered. I also noted their heavily promoted items located right where the store’s entrance were toilet paper, chlorine bleach, and laundry detergent. Usually it is soft drinks, chips, beer, etc. It just struck me as odd.
Cindy - at 12:55 - It was CVS Pharmacy.
Commonground – at 15:00 Olymom, our major Drug Store here in the Northeast had an end cap with the gloves, sanitizer and tylenol also. With some sign saying ‘flu season is coming”. That would have been fine - except for the disposable gloves. My prepping “red flag” went up when I saw those.
C-ground -Which chain was that? I was in both my local Shaws and Stop&Shop last night and don’t recall seeing anything like that.
Calandriel – at 07:08
Someone posted on another thread that the VA was having flu shots starting Oct. 2nd. I asked them yesterday when I was renewing a perscription and they said that they discussed it at their morning meeting and decided to open their flu clinic Oct. 23rd.
Cindy - I should have mentioned that the same Pharmacy was advertising Flu Shot Clinics this month. I noticed this on Monday of this week. They never had them before.
The Ralphs’ (Kroger) near my home here have a section with gloves, had sanitizer, surgical masks, tylenol all grouped together. Don’t know about other supermarkets. Some of the people working at Home Depot were wearing gloves the other day. (Los Angeles area)
Dr.Dave, “Our upper management has been advised by our legal and HR departments that the company should not offer advice for indivisulas and should just stick with whatever will keep us operational.
So, after the staff meeting I reminded (yet again) most of my department about Flu Wikie. Some of these folks were blind-sided by our company’s roll-out of pandemic planning and Flu Wikie will give them some guidance. I would like to offer my advice to them and share my literature, but I have already been cautioned against doing that. “ ← That, which would keep your company operational…
Dead employees don’t work very well,
neither do sick ones, nor ones whose families are sick or hungry. (Or stranded somewhere).
Individuals keep any company operational!
(I’d “shout”, but they never change when I say to anyway…)
Did hear about vetrinary office staff getting new “in-services”. My second-hand impression is what Dr.Dave said, “If they did not have a PPF before, they certainly have one now.”
Camden County NJ is getting to do a mass mailing regarding ‘all-emergency’ planning info, including pandemic flu. All the school nurses had an inservice in the past few weeks. NJ State Dept of Health is going to start some ads soon-ie:
“DHSS: “Get Flu Ready New Jersey”
The New Jersey Department of Health and Senior Services (DHSS) has launched a multi-media public awareness campaign –“Get Flu Ready New Jersey” – to help individuals, families, businesses and schools prepare for a potential influenza pandemic.
Beginning October 1 New Jersey Health and Senior Services Commissioner Fred M. Jacobs will be featured in public service announcements reminding residents to “get flu ready” by preparing an emergency health plan, practicing good hygiene habits and learning about the potential impact of a pandemic before it occurs.
The 30-second public service announcements are airing at video screens located in 176 Acme, Pathmark and ShopRite supermarkets throughout New Jersey. The video will run five times per hour daily during the month of October.
“Every New Jersey resident should know how to prepare their families, friends, coworkers and neighbors for an influenza pandemic,” said Health and Senior Services Commissioner Fred M. Jacobs, M.D., J.D. “We don’t know when a pandemic will occur or how severe it will be, but there are steps everyone can take now to prepare for a worldwide flu outbreak.”
link:http://www.nj.gov/cgi-bin/dhss/njnewsline/view_article.pl?id=2974
From the Mayo Clinic website stating that you need to get a flu shot at the beginning of the flu season so that your body has time to produce the antibodies:
Mayo Clinic: What are my options for the flu vaccine? The flu vaccine comes in two forms:
A shot. A flu shot contains an inactivated vaccine made of killed virus. The shot is usually given in the arm. Because the viruses in the vaccine are killed (inactivated), the shot won’t cause you to get the flu, but it will enable your body to develop the antibodies necessary to ward off influenza viruses. You may have a slight reaction to the shot, such as soreness at the injection site, mild muscle ache or fever. Reactions usually last one to two days and are more likely to occur in children who have never been exposed to the flu virus.
A nasal spray. Administered through your nose, the nasal spray vaccine (FluMist) consists of a low dose of live but weakened flu viruses. The vaccine doesn’t cause the flu, but it does prompt an immune response in your nose and upper airways as well as throughout your body.
“Plan to get a flu shot in the fall — October or November — so that your body has time to develop antibodies against the virus before the flu season hits its peak.”
…think I’ll be gettin’ mine this weekend…
Costco in the DC Metro area offers emergency prep barrels (food, water, and other stuff). I have never seen that before.
Called my local health dept to see about the flu mist availablity(my doc only has shots). I was told on Oct 20th 4–8pm at local high school flu vac. will be given. This one time only! (usually just go to health dept during business hours at your own choosing) This year they want to test a plan in the event of disaster. Pandemic was listed long with a number of other events, those given first mention. I suggested to the health dept staffer to consider the drive by procedure other states and counties are planning. She seemed suprised and interested. Hope the TPTB will be also. I sure do not want to stand in line with 2000 other nieghbors in the real deal event.
I received my flu shot this morning at Krogers and my chicks had theirs this afternoon at the pediatrician’s. The ped. was going to be almost out of flu vaccine today. Only one of the children was eligible for the Flumist, so I heard a lot of “Not fair!” today. Of course the five getting the needle, thought it was “Not fair” for the Flumist kid to get a “shot toy!” I think that the only ones that can get Flumist are ages 5–49 and with no health problems.
Scheduled to get flu and pneumonis shot this coming Sat at the local grocery store. Got the pneumonia shot about 10 yrs ago and it is time again. No difference at the grocery stores except the rows of tp, water and hamburger helper all down one aisle.
My brother told me that his kid’s pediatrician (in the FL panhandle)is formulating a plan to have people drive up to the office and remain in the car for “curbside” triage/health assessments/treatment in the event of avian flu pandemic.
I am also aware the the Veteran’s Administration has such a plan in place.
Walgreen’s drugstore here in the Northeast is also having both flushots and pneumovax. I have not been able to get pneumovax from my pcp, I don’t meet any of the official criteria, Harvard educated pcp looked at me as if I had three heads when I explained why…I also asked what her thoughts were and if she was prepped…sad because she is single mom with two young kids. Anyway, I called them and they said if you have asthma the nurse will give you the pneumovax and you do NOT need a doctors note.
I may lie if I have to and say I have asthma to be honest. I go to a public health clinic and don’t have insurance, so I don’t really have any other option tho I am happy to pay out of my pocket. Last yr I called around to find a doc —couldn’t find anyone here who’d give me pneumovax. I think you might need a relationship with your doc, like in a small town (I am not), to have them be so flexible. Kinda makes me mad.
oh, I also asked the nurse if they usually offer pneumovax and she said she thought this was the first year. I asked her if she thought it was due to possible pandemic, she said that “avian flu is viral;the shot won’t help for that”. Sigh.
jplanner-at 04:59
that is very interesting. I’m thinking she was probably referring to the fact that the regular flu shots won’t help the avian flu because the vaccine is different. It is my understanding that all colds, and flu are viral. If I am wrong, someone please straighten me out. Question- exactly what is bacterial, and what is viral? I believe something like strep-throat is bacterial?
Just reply, “It helps against what the pneumovax covers, and from developing complications, at a time when regular medical care will not be available. Ounce of prevention will be priceless, come a Pandemic Influenza year.”
(Checks mirror; still sees one head)
http://tinyurl.com/jomm8 “The Massachusetts Department of Public Health and The Local Public Health Institute, of Massachusetts, Spring 2006, Be Prepared for Pandemic Flu: Key Tools for Local Public Health “…
(No wonder we’re getting screwed; look at the numbers they were using: “Assumptions:
Attack rate: 30%
Hospitalization rate: 4.2% of ill (8.4% of those who seek care)
Death rate: 1% of ill
Duration of epidemic wave: 8 weeks
Avg. length of non-ICU stay for flu related illness: 5 days
Avg. length of ICU stay for flu related illness: 10 days
Avg. length of ventilator usage for flu related illness: 10 days
Avg. proportion of flu admissions requiring ICU care: 50%
Avg. proportion of flu admissions requiring mechanical ventilation: 15%
Avg. proportion of flu deaths assumed to be hospitalized: 70%
Daily percentage increase of cases compared to previous day: 3%” )
“Emergency Response: Continuity of Operations Planning template to address 40% absenteeism, Plans to meet the needs of people confined to their homes,”(Let’s hear how that went- what supplies if this happens next week?) “Surge capacity planning” …
“Vaccinate everyone at risk for pneumococcal disease now
Common complication of influenza
Increasingly antibiotic-resistant
Unable to conduct pneumococcal vaccine campaigns during pandemic “…
jplanner, maybe they didn’t get the memo…quote:
“Vaccinating everyone at risk for pneumococcal disease protects them now, and during the next pandemic!”
Please consider getting the nasal flu vaccine if you are eligible. If we support that method of flu vaccination, we healthy mid-age people will continue to have an option during times when there are flu vaccine shortages and only sick/very young/old people can qualify for a shot.
crfullmoon- at 06:50
please help me to understand. How would vaccinating against pneumococcal disease protect me, say next winter if the pandemic hit? I understand that the avian bird flu produces symptoms of the flu, but the strain is different.
cottontop, The Massachusetts Department of Public Health and The Local Public Health Institute, of Massachusetts, want more people to have had the pneumovax before pandemic. It is good for many years.
No one is saying it will protect you aginst a pandemic strain, but if that doesn’t not kill you, (and someone keeps you hydrated, fed, ect) you would have protection from developing complications that could kill you. You also don’t need to get sick from any of those things when regulare medical care has collapsed, even if you never caught pandemic.
http://tinyurl.com/fk4ny …”pneumococcal disease kills more people in theUnited States each year than all other vaccine-preventable diseases combined.
Anyone can get pneumococcal disease. However, some people areat greater risk from the disease. These include people 65 and older, the very young, and people with special health problems such as alcoholism, heart or lung disease, kidney failure, diabetes, HIV infection, or certain types of cancer. Pneumococcal disease can lead to serious infections of the lungs (pneumonia), the blood(bacteremia), and the covering of the brain(meningitis).”
(Keep in mind these figures are from current hospital care and imported meds being available) “About 1 out of every 20 people who get pneumococcal pneumonia dies from it,
as do about 2 people out of 10 who get bacteremia
and 3 people out of 10 who get meningitis.
Peoplewith the special health problems mentioned above are even more likely to die from the diease.
Drugs such as penicillin were once effective in treating these infections; but the disease has become more resistant to these drugs, making treatment of pneumococcal infections more difficult. This makes prevention of the disease through vaccination even more important”…
frfullmoon - at 06:50
thanks. I have noticed that the pneumona(sp?) vaccine is side by side with the regular flu shot this year, when normally it isn’t, or perhaps it is, but not as heavily advertised as the flu shot is. it is this year. It’s funny how we don’t notice everyday things, until a situation such as this occurs. Then we get suspicious!
When I tentatively mentioned maybe getting the pneumovax for my three kids, the youngest only 2, my PCP literally jumped out of her chair in enthusiasim. She wrote me a “permission slip” for them for the health department. I’ve never discussed AF with her, but I thought her response was a bit unusual.
anonymous – at 01:22
Thanks!
Cottontop: I think I understand why you’d get the pneumovax 23: one of the the major things people died from in 1918 after contracting the flu was secondary pneumonia (Community acquired pneumonia -CAP) which is caused by bacterial infection. and the pneumovax protects against 23 of the most common types.
The current H5N1 virus is specific and novel enough that seasonal flu vaccine isn’t designed to protect for AF yet, however the latest news about the having the seasonal one offering some protection was encouraging!
I just made “reservations” at our local clinic for the flu nasal spray vaccine for our whole family. Mine is free through work but we have to pay $23/each for everyone else………..I need to visit with my family Physician about the pneumovax for us as well.
Northstar – Before I started reading the fluwikie I did not even know there was a pneumovax (pneumonia) vaccine. I just had my first ever during my last physical as I remembered reading about here and when I asked the doctor he was more than happy to administer the shot.
Just another in a long list of good things learned from the fluwikie…
“crfullmoon – at 07:14 cottontop, The Massachusetts Department of Public Health and The Local Public Health Institute, of Massachusetts, want more people to have had the pneumovax before pandemic. It is good for many years. “
Have you found this in writing anywhere to back it up? My doctor is does not want to give it to us. At the Mass DPH website I can only find the old guidelines and by them my dr. is right and we do not qualify.
something I learned on the fluwikie, is the the pneumovax vaccine last many years. I did not know this. Now question- is this one in the same shot, or two seperate shots, a flu and a pneumonia? My family has never had a flu shot, yes, yes, I know, bad mom, but I have become quiet concerned about this, and to put my preaching where my mouth is, I have decided to schedule the flu shots with our doctor, (although hubby and girls do not know this yet. Lord help me!) I’m just very concerned about the girls, my oldest has allergies, and of course my baby,(she’s 4), so young. Of course hubby coughs once, and he thinks he’s dying. He was convinced last year he had bird flu! Man he was sick. so, if anybody has something to say to steady my nerves about this, I would love to hear, especially dealing with the kids.
Ma-Mom, I was looking at http://tinyurl.com/fk4ny and do none of your household members or people you care for meet the criteria? Any doc-in-a-box places you could call and ask for it and pay cash? (We’ve had threads on pneumovax in the past somewhere around)
cottontop; two separate shots, unless someone/household is safe for the flu-mist, people would be getting two vaccinations. Check with your pedi.
Being ready to try and not catch pandemic, and not bring it home, and, be able to cope at home is still as important.
cottontop – at 06:49 “It is my understanding that all colds, and flu are viral. If I am wrong, someone please straighten me out. Question- exactly what is bacterial, and what is viral? I believe something like strep-throat is bacterial?”
Cottontop - Bacterial is any illness that is caused by bacteria. This can be treated with antibiotics. Bacteria are living cells, they can reproduce on their own (usually). Some examples of bacterial infections include strep throat, salmonella, and e. coli.
Viruses are nastier little creatures. Some examples are flu, cold, and HIV. Viruses are not technically classified as “alive” until they have invaded a body cell and began using it to reproduce themselves.
Obviously medical science has done a good job learning to control bacteria… I just wish we’d hurry it along with finding a more effective way to deal with viruses.
You have to be persistent with your doctor to get the pneumonia shot. I finally convinced my doctor to give me, my husband and my two sons the shot. I am the only one at high risk, but I told them I wanted the entire family to receive the shot. Anyone at high risk often needs a second shot (a booster) the second year, but those not at high risk should be covered with just the initial shot.
Pneumonia is the main killer in ANY flu. Why not be safe and get your family covered? It is somewhat difficult in that most M.D.’s are not aware of the Avian Flu and the benefits of the pneumonia shot. Be persistent for the sake of your family.
this is good. I’n telling you people, I have never felt the need to know the difference between bateria and viruses, but I am learning so much, and that is what I need.
Question- can the common cold turn into pneumonia? I’m guessing yes.
Well, if you are run down with a cold, and something else viral or bacterial comes along, or, you are too bedridden, can turn into pneumonia. (But, I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on the internet.) Check the main Flu Wiki for books like “When there is no Doctor” Red Cross Home Care for Pandemic Flu pdf and maybe get some of the other preparedness guides or find simple home first aid/nursing manuals, and make sure all the household knows about them. Sometimes, the person with no medical clue is the only one well or uninjured; not good.
Meanwhile, (back on topic), what news from out in the field?
I would say if your cold “settles” into your bronchial tubes with a mucus drainage.. .that provides a great place for bacteria to grow (warm, moist, food source) and then theoretically yes the common cold can turn into pneumonia… in people with healthy immune systems I would hazard a guess that this is very uncommon.
I think it would be rare that a typical sniffley, sneezy, tickly cough kind of cold would provide the conditions that allow the right bacteria to grow developing into pneumonia in a previously healthy individual.
But I’m am not a HCW & I don’t play one on TV, nor did I stay at a holiday-inn express last night..
I am a biology major and “teach” a certain level of this stuff (bacteria vs. viruses) for living. Stocking up @ 11:01 is spot-on with their difference between bacteria and viruses
take my “guess” for what it’s worth :-)
diana – at 16:52 No problem- ‘ That which doesn’t kill us’ -----right? I made it through, and am a better (and more frugal!) person for it
cottontop – at 07:02 crfullmoon- at 06:50
please help me to understand. How would vaccinating against pneumococcal disease protect me, say next winter if the pandemic hit? I understand that the avian bird flu produces symptoms of the flu, but the strain is different.
I don’t know the science but can tell you all- husband got the flu last year for the 1st time ever- ( I got it too- for the 1st time since 1976/77) and got Pneumonia “from” it. He said the flu was bad enough but the pneumonia was what really kept him down. It was more than a month before he felt anything close to himslef again. he already got his Pneumo vax. We are both getting our flu shots and I will get the Pneumo vax at work too.
jplanner – at 04:57 I may lie if I have to and say I have asthma to be honest.
Lie till your blue in the face baby. Do what you have to. By the way, as an editor, that sentence structure and phrasing made me chuckle. I may lie…to be honest. :)
On the pneumovax, our bloody asst. state epidemiologist is running around telling everyone to get one to hopefully prevent secondary bacterial infections during pandemic (or seasonal flu for that matter).
My husband’s doc gave him the runaround but finally gave in. Actually, it was the doc’s Nurse Ratchet that gave him the runaround. The doc was fine with it.
Our pediatrician and my PCP were happy to give us our pneumovax shots. I told them why I wanted them. They said, “Oh. Hm. OK.”
It’s funny because I know a lot of the nurses at the peds office. My hope is that they whispered about this after the fact. They know I’m not “one of those” (i.e., crazy, high-maintenance) mothers, so hoping it got a few of them to thinking.
Just be prepared everyone. The pneumovax hurts like a b****. Both kids and I had pain that radiated up the arm and involved the shoulder joint. Couldn’t sleep on my side without waking up. Lasted about three days at full throttle for all of us before it began to abate. Heat and ibuprofen helped some. Regardless, I’m glad I got it.
The pneumovax is available at a lot of drug stores, just like the flu shot. You don’t have to go to a doctor’s office and beg or make excuses. Just call around. Ask before you go if there are any rules or age groups for the pneumovax…as far as they are concerned.
Re Pneumovax:
I went to a Costco in Northwest CT yesterday and got both a seasonal flu shot and Pneumovax (23 valent pneumococcus polysaccharide vaccine) for $51 total. No doctor’s approval required. I don’t know if there was an age limit. There was a space on the required form for age and DOB. I am over 50, so I guess I would be in the approved range anyway.
In the US, one can find flu clinics through the American Lung Association flu clinic locator at
The notes may or may not say if the Pneumovax is available at a given location.
Re Pneumovax:
I went to a Costco in Northwest CT yesterday and got both a seasonal flu shot and Pneumovax (23 valent pneumococcus polysaccharide vaccine) for $51 total. No doctor’s approval required. I don’t know if there was an age limit. There was a space on the required form for age and DOB. I am over 50, so I guess I would be in the approved range anyway.
In the US, one can find flu clinics through the American Lung Association flu clinic locator at
The notes may or may not say if the Pneumovax is available at a given location.
I went to the VA yesterday after being told the flu vax would be available on Oct 2nd last month.
I was not abel to get it because they don’t have it. The trucks never arrived. Locally, stores and other individual doctors may have received their small shipments, but none of the larger hospitals that placed large orders got them in. Contrary to the press announcements, I was informed that there is a shortage again this year. In theory, there isn’t… because there will be “enough” vaccine distributed to all requested orders BY DEC. 31st! -so by definition, there is no shortage.
But I was told that there would be only initial shipments for the highest tier of receivers availabel at the end of Oct or possibly Nov. The next shipments won’t arrive until late Nov and possibly Dec. My VA Doc suggested I not wait and shell out the cash at a local provider outsie the VA and “get it while you can”. Supplies are extremely limited and will probably sell out by the end of the weekend, especially if folks hear that there is actually a shortage/delay in deliveries.
This is in Tampa Bay Area by the way.
I’ve tried for two years to get the pneumovax vaccine, for myself and dd(s). Even though my dd and myself have asthma, they say that we are too young and that you can only get the vaccine twice, when you are over 65, unless immune compromised. (from the doctor and then from a visiting nurses clinic). I looked up the recommendations and they are quoting them (asthma is not considered immune compromised…why is it, then, that every time i get sick, it’s in my chest???) Any ideas? I suppose we all could have diabetes…they wouldn’t question me, but they would question the rest of my family :)! I really don’t want to lie, though.
TreasureIslandGal – at 13:12
The VA in Roanoke, VA is opening their flu clinic Oct. 23
preppiechick, try going to a Costco or market - they don’t really give you the third degree that much.
I take care of two individuals who are immune system compromised. I’ve also had pneumonia myself several times, and have had chronic bronchitis that lasted months. These seem to be valid reasons, at least at a supermarket clinic. I don’t think people at Walgreens, etc are that picky. They just need to put down a reason, and don’t have your medical records, so they take your word for it.
I just saw the news this am (Fox, maybe?) and they had a doctor on who was telling everybody to get a flu vaccine - rally pushing it hard - everybody from 6 months to 5 years, even pregnant women because he said they might be giving some immunity to the newborn a few months afer birth. My guess is it might be easier to get the pneumonovax this year, because it sounds like they want to immunize everybody they can get their hands on this year. I wonder why? ;)
preppiechick – at 13:19 tell them you have to care for an older person that has lung problems and don’t want to risk infecting them. And if you don’t want to lie- go visit some old person (friend’s relative) in a extended care home.
Thanks all! I almost gave up my costco membership, because they went up to $50.00 and i usually go to sams (i mile away vs 10). My oldest dd, with asthma, just started volunteering at a senior center (for school) and she said everyone was sick. She said she washed her hands a lot (and she doesn’t do that often enough…she thinks mom is a little too cautious, esp. about bf…sigh) so that will be a perfect response. Thanks again!
I got my pneumococcal vaccine yesterday (I assume it is the “Pneumovax” that people are refering to) at the local Safeway pharmacy. They took my money and gave me the shot. At $40 it was definately more expensive than the flu vaccine ($28) but may turn out to be worth every penny.
On connecting the dots…
Our county Emergency Medical Services Agency (under public health), just published the equipment guidelines for all ambulances and fire apparatus in the system. This is an update. The first in a couple of years.
New this year is an infectious disease kit consisting of fluid barrier goggles, NIOSH compliant P100 respirator, tyvek hood and gloves for every person on the apparatus.
These requirements came out last WEEK in the emsa plan update.
EVERY piece of equipment in the system now has to carry this equipment to be “legal” and respond to system calls.
Yesterday I was in my local ‘Bulk Barn’ shop - part of a chain in Ontario - unpackaged dried foods etc you can buy in bulk - good prices on rice, beans, dried fruits and veg etc - great resource for prepping! So. . . managed to trap the manager and engage him in conversation about his lack of in-store signage re advisability of stocking up as a pandemic preparation. He actually laughed at me and told me that he didnt want ‘his store’ to be associated with the negative word ‘pandemic’, as that would be bad for business - I suggested that the word ‘emergency’ would do as well - he was completely obstinate on the subject - I told him that when the panic starts he will have empty shelves in 2 days - he said he wasnt worried as he would just call his head office distribution centre and order more. I tried to explain that it was unlikely he would receive replacement stock - but he just brushed me off as a harmless wacko!! His company has not issued any special instructions nor has prepared in any way. arrggghhh!!!
My insurance HMO, Kaiser Permanente of Northern California, has information about flu shots posted on it’s web sites for several locations, the various hours and who should come in, etc. Times and people ages, etc. all seem to be expanded from last year.
One of the locations is offering “drive-through” vaccinations for several days; I hav’nt seen that offered before. Seems like a great idea for the less ambulatory among us. I recall having a difficult time getting my dad in and out of the car for all his doctor’s visits and lab tests in his last years.
Would love to see them offer drive through blood draws, too.
A lot of vaccine clinics this year are using the seasonal vaccine distribution to test their pandemic distribution plans.
Probably why you see Kaiser doing a drive through clinic.
That was my thought. Kaiser tends to be ahead of the curve on proactive care if it’s proven to save further down the line. If they’re trying it out it would indicate they are thinking ahead at least a little …
Bird Guano – at 15:33 A lot of vaccine clinics this year are using the seasonal vaccine distribution to test their pandemic distribution plan
Yep, that’s what we’re doing. We’re also offering pneumonia shots. I’m helping with the clinic on 10/28.
gharris- at 15:15
and you move on to the next one. I encounter this atitude alot. I feel like a telemarketer. I’ve accepted that this is the way it is, for now. I don’t take it personally, and always try to leave on a lighthearted note.
Eduk8or – at 11:36
Thank you! Bio major here! No medical knowledge though. I know what it is- can’t fix it :-/
Funeral home directors still need to hear about possible H5N1 Pandemic, and, the Flu Wiki.
(Try “cold calling” ;-)) They deserve information and resources.
A few weeks ago a friend who works in my state (Massachusetts) DPH and is involved in the panflu planning told me that one of DPH’s concerns is that the medical waste transport and disposal sector could become overwhelmed. It is private sector, so DPH and the hospitals have no control over it. With an increase in medical waste, a decrease (if they are sick or dead) in handlers, and ultimately an out-of-state disposal site, that contingency isn’t covered.
off the thread topic again but, HHS November 8, 2005 Pandemic Influenza Plan, Appendix F: Current HHS Activities … “Risk communication… 9) continuing efforts to raise awareness about the importance of seasonal influenza vaccine and to promote increased yearly compliance of influenza and pneumococcal vaccination. “…
Brooks, can control over medical waste transport and disposal be put under pre-emptive emergency control, or, tell them now that’s what would need to happen when pandemic breaks out? Get preparing now?
Brooks – at 11:23
A few weeks ago a friend who works in my state (Massachusetts) DPH and is involved in the panflu planning told me that one of DPH’s concerns is that the medical waste transport and disposal sector could become overwhelmed. It is private sector, so DPH and the hospitals have no control over it. With an increase in medical waste, a decrease (if they are sick or dead) in handlers, and ultimately an out-of-state disposal site, that contingency isn’t covered.
The military would just incinerate it.
There won’t be an EPA to worry about.
:-/
Any more news from those, out, standing, in their fields?
It’s cold.
wet
and the leaves are falling. /:0)
Ridgefield, CT, USA, will hold a real seasonal flu vaccine clinic conducted as a pandemic mass innoculation drill on Saturday 4 November 2006.
I think I just stepped in something nasty.
It would seem to be slowing down somewhat, yeh? One case in Egypt and one more in Indonesia, but we may be seeing the end…what would you think about that statement?
Blue. I think this is the calm before the store…and it is frustrating because I do not know whether the calm will last one day or five years…
…and everyone, including professionals and experts dealing with the speculative…do not really know where knowledge and intuition end and paranoi begins.
Tom DVM – at 13:57
Which store? Wallyworld? Sam’s?!! 8^)
Oops!!
I hope this is the correct forum for my comments.
A guy I know works for a county sheriff’s department. He told me that he is purchasing one of those 5 gallon buckets filled with 275 dehydrated meals (sold at Costco, I think) for each of the people who work under him. He wants them and their families to have food in an emergency so that his people will be able to report to work. This gives me hope that similar actions are quietly taking place in law enforcement communities elsewhere??!!
I stopped by one of the large grocery store chains in my area. It was the chains ‘super store’. I spoke with the store manager about leaving some phamplets and cards. When I brought up the word pandemic he cut me short and said, ‘yeah, I’ve heard about that SARS stuff’. He had absolutely no clue about what I was talking about. It only confirms my belief that the pandemic message has stalled out at the Federal and State levels. What happened to the idea of ‘community planning’?
I hope so, (and keep suggesting it to them, when you see any essential personnel).
(Though I hope I don’t hear anymore that “our families might be all brought to some central location for the duration, so we know they’re safe”)
I can’t imagine 275 meals stuffed into a single 5 gallon bucket! Is that for real???!!
Yep- I’ve seen them. They sell them in our local Costco, but they’re also available online. Their website is: www.foodforhealthint.com. (I have no connection with them.)
Their flyer says “Each 5-gallon bucket contains:
(All products aare soy based except for whey milk.) And they give lots of other info and actually for “Natural Disasters- Pandemics” Oh- each meal is about 1500 calories so that may not be enough for guys working hard, chopping wood, etc.
I thought I had read on another thread that COSTCO’s was being sued over those buckets for false advertising?
Hard to believe. One 5 gallon bucket can feed you for 55 meals? What if I only eat two meals per day. I can’t imagine a bucket feeding me for almost a month. One thing I have said all along. If we live through this, we will need smaller pants. Take that Jenny Craig!
wait. just re-read. 275 meals, 5–55 serving meals. Even harder to believe.
Let me guess: he gives you the bucket and then says,”No excuses.” Some people are so precious.
it is not 275 meals, just 275 servings. The “servings” range from about 100 to 200 cals each. So you would need 7 to 15 servings a day for the 1500 cals a day.
What Are You Hearing from Out in the Field?
(Sound of crickets chirping)
I just did the math. The 55 packets each hold 5 servings. 39,500 total calories, which averages out to 143 calories/serving. At 1,800 calories/day, it’s 22 days worth of food for one person in each bucket. I think that without shipping it works out to about $7/day.
I didn’t check for nutrition balance, but for the first 22 days, all you really have to worry about is vitamin C.
Well, I’m hearing some first responders are just getting told how serious pandemic threat is, say within the past two weeks,
while other responders still seem to think “bird flu” has only been in one spot and it not more of a threat to their families than any existing diseases even if it were to go pandemic,
so, the word has been being passed along rather slowly and unevenly, far as I can tell. (Some sectors I would consider essential workers don’t seem to have been told at all, yet.)
Your statement “…do not really know where knowledge and intuition end and paranoia begins…” rings so true. Great quote to be quoted.
Sorry - for ‘TOMDVM’, Your statement “…do not really know where knowledge and intuition end and paranoia begins…” rings so true. Great quote to be quoted.
My spouse, a senior scientist and “one-two degrees” from top AF experts—and yet not on board with prepping (too busy, where to start??, we have time….) called to say, “Just got out of a conference lecture with Dr. G Poland and I now really believe this thing is going to happen. omigod.” No time frame was given (prob sooner rather than later) but the concern seems esp. to be with infected migratory birds, soiling parks and the waterways and spreading the virus to children (who appear now to be the most vulnerable) who come in contact with them and the virus or arriving by plane as noted in so many threads. I can’t say (don’t know) what it was about this “aha” moment for my spouse that was so unnerving but I suspect we will get real serious about really prepping really soon—like tomorrow. Thankfully, I have been plugging along prepping for a while thanks to fluwikie but there is more to be done and even I am still a bit shaken by this new motivation. And all the things written about; high death rate, HCW absenteeism, interrupted services and supplies, overwhelmed health care facilities, NON-EXISTENT gov. rescue were made clear and believable to this academic audience. And the fog begins to clear…..
Thanks for sharing
anonymouse for this post: Do you think you could post again tomorrow or the next day with additional info. such as what the “aha” moment was, what else was said at the meeting, if a timeframe was predicted, etc.? This would be extremely valuable information for the rest of us, particularly those with relative who, like your spouse, are STILL not prepping despite your best arguments. THANKS!!!!
anonymouse 0:46-I get how it must wierd you out to see your non-prepper scientist hubby finally GET it. THe validation must be unnerving.
shots update::I got my flu shot at Walgreens, they had FORGOTTEN syringes so no pneumovax for me yet. But also, no questions either. I just had to pay forty dollars for the shot, I didn’t even have to lie and say I had asthma, there were NO QUALIFYING questions beyond was I allergic. So in a pinch anyone who can afford it in the US anyway probably can just pay out of pocket to get pneumovax…Crfullmoon, I explained to nurse about pandemic and how MDPH wants people to get pneumovax, but she wasn’t even up on idea of pandemic flu occuring. The nurses that staff these clinics aren’t public health nurses….don’t seem to be the top of the profession. I will go to another Walgreens to get the pneumovax.
Unrelatedly, one of my city’s firehouses is a block away so I kind of know the firefighters. A group of them has personally stocked up on gloves and masks, which was spearheaded by one of the wives. But they haven’t heard anything from their organization from the top down about pandemic preparedness.
EnoughAlready – at 09:08 Houston area--- retiree’s being called back into petrochemical plants. Apparently, there are not enough experienced people. I was told it had “something” to do with pandemic preparation, as well as “other” stuff… as well as cross training.
My uncle is in Houston, 77 years old, electrical engineer in the oil industry; is SO BUSY these days, he’s about to drop. Whenever the oil companies have a problem, screw up, or need an expert; they call him. He works around the world. He is hearing all sorts of pandemic preparation news. He’s training other engineers in alot of areas; to help keep things going.
…”senior scientist and “one-two degrees” from top AF experts…yet not on board with prepping (too busy, where to start??, we have time….) called to say, “…now really believe this thing is going to happen.
(A senior scientist feeling “omigod!”…I got sort of a laugh out of that. That’s what you and most of us have been living with for months or years.)
What did it, so we can get the situation to add up put the flashing light on for all these others that have been eating spin? Really would like to know what people need to understand to see the danger.
If communities knew about what a pandemicinfluenza year is, they couldprep and try and prep for their first responders. We’ve seen them care about 9/11,and the tsunami, and the hurricanes. Give them something rational to do; don’t say,you wouldn’t have listened anyway so we didn’t tell you, because you would have listened and panicked inthe streets…
crfullmoon. If I understand this…could you ask the senior scientist what data caused the ‘omigod’ reaction? Thanks.
Sorry. I just read the anonymouse for this post statement above yours.
Tom
crfullmoon was referring to anonymouse at 00:46.
anonynous please tell us more! And who is Dr. G. Poland?
Average Concerned Mom. Thanks!!
Average Concerned Mom – at 13:11 And who is Dr. G. Poland?
Gregory Poland, MD, Mayo Vaccine Research Group?
I associate that name with development of inactivated avian influenza vaccines.
Our local Sunday October 15 paper (the Kitsap Sun) article on wanting over 900 school students for flu mist training for local responders. Of course I didn’t save the link. Kinda struck my. They were going to give the flu mist free for the students. What is the agenda?
Safety lady, the agenda may be Practice drill handing out stuff they won’t have available if pandemic brakes out next month, this winter, ect.
Keep the public calm by letting them think there will be similar ministration during an actual pandemic, instead of asking tricky questions (and getting prepared to do without antivirals, hospital care, and vaccines) now?
A little more on Dr. Gregory Poland: He is the editor of the journal “Vaccine” and a biodefense expert, as well as the Director of the Mayo Clinic vaccine group. He would certainly be a “top expert” in his field and if he is nervous, it should raise the PPF (PPF =“personal risk assessment level” or “personal pucker factor” for those new to FW) of all of us, I think.
A little more on Dr. Gregory Poland: He is the editor of the journal “Vaccine” and a biodefense expert, as well as the Director of the Mayo Clinic vaccine group. He would certainly be a “top expert” in his field and if he is nervous, it should raise the PPF (PPF =“personal risk assessment level” or “personal pucker factor” for those new to FW) of all of us, I think.
(Safety Lady, to be fair, besides any other motivations, giving out immunizations to free to student ages might also be a good way to increase seasonal flu protection among those who wouldn’t have gotten it, and reduce community transmission of seasonal influenza.)
Here’s an article by Dr. Poland:
I think the Mayo docs in general are very aware of this anyway. My uncle was chief of one of the major depts there for many years and his growing concern re: pandemic issues over the last 10+ yrs was an underlying cause for my initial preps, pre-BF. Well over a year ago he was warning our family that if this hit, it would dwarf 1918.
I think it may be time to ask my mom to give her brother another call and see if he’s heard anything new (he’s retired but still living in Rochester and ‘in the loop’)….
anonymouse for this post: Please re-visit us and let us know what the OMG moment was. There are some of us still trying to pry our relatives out of their morass of inertia. THANKS!!!
Spouse is out of town for this week and next and still concerned/worried. The speaker at this lecture was the Dr. Poland referenced above (Infomass 14:43). I think part of the “aha” was the seriousness of the tone of the speaker and no spin. Many of us have blinders on and don’t always look up to see the whole forest. We are busy, stressed, and putting one step in front of the other. There is also a lot to digest around the AF situation and it is becoming increasingly difficult to separate what is important and true and what is spin and untruths and let go of our belief that it couldn’t possibly happen. One look at most news headlines’ list and it seems that a vaccine or successful treatment is just around the corner and ours for the asking (as long as we have some money). But for this senior scientist it was hearing a credible figure step up to the podium, pull no punches, link the dots and make statements that rang true with the group—particularly on the topic of vaccinations—and I don’t know the exact statements but the conclusion seemed to be that even on the best day, with the best luck, and 100% of vaccine producers producing,it would still be only enough to cover a low percentage of the world’s population until we were well into the mess. That’s illuminating for all of us who hang on to the belief that science will make this easy to endure. And the scientists are working at triple overtime—if they are worried, I am worried—no make that triple worried. And like most other experts referenced here, what we do know is: there is no timetable to be known at this time or certain path, we have been warned by the gov to have no expectations of assistance,the most vulnerable are the young, and it would take very little to throw most cities and towns into chaos. So add that up and we know enough to get moving just as Dr. Woodson has recently posted.
Anonymouse.
My PPF just shot up. I guess the hardest part is just wrapping my head around the fact that it is possible for a pandemic to hit with such seriousness.
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Petticoat Junction – at 15:44 My brother is at Mayo. Sent immediate family rx’s for Tamiflu last fall. First most of us had heard of AF.