Some of you might have noticed that I haven’t been very active here this weekend.
A friend of mine who owns a beer store in my neighborhood was murdered Friday night in a robbery.
I just bought a case a beer from him hours before his death. This sort of thing just doesn’t happen here. I can leave the car doors unlocked at night. Everybody knows everbody.
He was a great person. I’m pissed. I’m afraid that this sort of thing really will become commonplace if TSHTF.
The violence will be real. Please be prepared for it.
He was a great person.
Mods, could you please fix that for me.
And for Joe.
JWB, I’m so sorry for your loss. My heart goes out to you and his family.
And yes, there will be murderous people out the when this pandemic hits. Having three members of my/my wife’s murdered on two different occations in two differnt states, I’m a true believer that it can happen to me and my loved ones.
I’ll be prepared and ready. I hope the members of this forum take heed.
My condolences, JWB. Very sorry for your loss.
I’m going for a gun permit soon and will practise practise practise to protect my family. Its only very recently that I have chosen to do this.
I remember when I first got into martial arts, at first it was just fun and exersise but as I progressed I realized I was training to hurt somebody if the need arose to protect me or mine. (I was a massage theraist trained to heal and it seemed wrong at the time)I did some seep thinking back then and decided it was worth it. If I can kill with my hands and I can, then a gun shouldnt be a problem and now that my kids are much older I feel as if I can get one in the house now.
Part of the adjustment reaction on how badly I want my family to survive.
My condolences, JWB
Actually JWB I WAS wondering where you were because I was thinking you’d be on posting this close to the 18th. I am so very sorry about your friend-that is so awful.
So sorry for his children, too.
From your links: “He was a wonderful guy, a good father, a happy-go-lucky guy,” said another patron. And a guy who was well-loved in his community”
I hope the community can find out what happened, and, see each other through the future.
JWB - words cannot express how sorry I am for you and your friend’s family. Stay strong.
That’s shocking. Sorry for your loss, and his family aswell. Maybe take some time off work? Just a couple of days. Might help?
How AWEFUL!! My condolences. There is nothing predictable in life. No matter how hard we try to make it that way something changes. The good, the bad and the ugly…they’re all here.
JWB- I too am sorry for your loss and for his family’s loss as well. I was was thinking about you too today as well. Peace be with you and his family. Thinking of you in my prayers.
So sorry JWB..This senseless act of violence only demonstrates more poignantly than a discussion of the same, of why personal protection will be so vital in a pandemic situation, where people will be even more desperate and dangerous. They do this kind of stuff now just for a few dollars, imagine what will happen when it is survival of the fittest. I hope JWB that there is something that you can do to help the family. Many of us will be thinking of you at this difficult time and of the family of your friend, Joe.
I want to thank all you very much.
I really appreciate it.
The news articles don’t do him justice. His children were / are everything to him.
I decided to put those last beers that I bought from him into what I am beginning to stock up for down the road. No, I don’t mean stocking up for a pandemic. I mean the END of the pandemic.
We each have to visualize that. That paradigm will get you and your family there.
This virus will not defeat us. Period.
Many condolences for your loss, JWB, but you bring up a point that most here have shied away from.
Violence like this already happens in our society and we’re not in a situation of grievous need, at least here in the US. I can hardly imagine how vicious these same elements will be once they’re hit with that basic need of food.
Many here seem to think that just by SIP and hiding from the disease they will survive. I think they are naive. Defensive measures are necessary. Planning your defense takes time, training and effort.
Are Flu Wikians preparing for this aspect of staying alive as well as they are preparing their food supplies? I hope so.
jquest – at 19:57
Many here seem to think that just by SIP and hiding from the disease they will survive. I think they are naive. Defensive measures are necessary. Planning your defense takes time, training and effort.
I agree.
But it is an issue that many people do not want to consider. Much like panflu itself. It is simply too horrible a thought, that you may very well be in situation where you either kill or be killed.
I don’t want to think of the coming violence either. I don’t want to think about any of this panflu crap. I have plans for my life, and all of this is really getting in the way. I spent a beautiful weekend dong what? Stacking 3 tons of firewood.
I am reaching the point where I want to grab mother nature by the throat and say, “Bring it on already and lets get this overwith!”
Has there been any signs of violence caused by pandemic fears in Indonesia? or Thailand? I wonder what lessons we can learn from them. I know most of what we hear is that there is a lot of ignorance about the disease but I do think on the ground things if we look close enough we can learn something.
Prepping Gal – at 20:39
Good point. Let’s see/watch what happens where there is panic and fear and learn from it. But we have to take into account culture. Knowing my friend Joe, he would have handed over all the money and offered to help them load beer into their vehicle while cracking jokes the whole time. They still killed him.
JWB – at 16:10 I’m so very sorry that you lost a friend — a really good friend. I don’t know if you’ve known him for years, but it doesn’t matter, because when you’ve found a friend it’s the quality of the friendship and the character of the people that count, not the length of time.
I’m sure you will find ways to help his family through this and that you’ll make a plan for them for pandemic times or whatever might come their way when the time comes, because that’s your character.
But I know right now you’re hurt and angry and pissed and for good reason. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family as well as your friend’s. I hope that progress is made in the search for the attacker & that he’ll be brought to justice soon. Take care of yourself.
I’m-workin’-on-it – at 21:32
Thank you.
And yes, I’ve just adopted a panflu family. They just don’t know it yet. There is no way the mother will be able to handle whats coming. I’ve got a lot of shopping to do tommorrow.
Violence is a real fear for me too. TV shows that show a persons death as the end of the story don’t get it. The real story, the real grief, and pain go on for years in a persons family, among their friends and in the community as a whole. I am so sorry for your loss.
JWB: Sincerest regrets for your loss. I just read your post on another thread about being in the park, enjoying a day with your family. I am glad that you are taking the time to be with those you love and am sorry that your friend is no longer able to play with his children or to watch them grow up. Life is such a fleeting thing and we all forget just how easily it can be snatched from us. It is particularly horrible when it is done so at the hands of others for their own selfish desires. Thank you for reminding us that there are those among us who find it easier to take from others than to work for their own resources. I live in a state where there are more gun stores than liquor stores and am happy for it. I believe there is less crime when the criminals know the law-abiders may be armed. As someone said in another format, “If you don’t think guns are a deterrent, then just put a sign in your front yard which says ‘This is a gun-free home’ and see how long your opinion remains unchanged” Not to turn this into a “gun thread” but you bring up an important point which is something we all must consider if we are faced with dealing with armed assailants. How unfortunate for us all. Peace to you and Joe’s family.
I dont know if anyone has caught the special on CNN called shoot to kill about the breakdown post Katrine. If you still have doubts about any of this its a real eye opener. It followed several different people and families and their experience including those of rogue police and armed gangs.
JWB,
Your tragedy during the “normal” daily life is just a taste of what could happen when the BF takes off. I am a Police Officer in a small town (about 30,000 people) and I can tell you there will be no Police to protect you when TSHTF. If you don’t think this is true contact your Police Department and find out how many Officers they have. We have about 25 Officers (35 if we put the office types on the street), that is about 1,000 people for every Officer. Not to bad, until you realize those Officers are on three 10 hour shifts and those shifts are broken down in to two working teams (half off while the other half works). The bottom line is we have only about 4 or 5 Officers on the street at any time! 7,500 people for each Officer is over whelming. Now mix in alcohol, drugs, domestic fights, and the people who would cut your throat to steal your gold teeth, and you can get an idea of “normal” life. During any disaster the first public service to be over whelmed is the Police. When TSHTF plan to be on your own, because we (the Police) will be unable to do much in the way of protecting you. I know some people will not believe me and that’s alright, what I ask is that you contact you Police Department and ask if you can do a ride-a-long. Your eyes will be opened! If you have plans to SIP, don’t forget the four rules of survival. Water, food, shelter, and a way to protect it! All the food and water will mean nothing if some scum bag kicks in your door and takes it (and your family’s life) from you. JWB drink the beer now and enjoy it as you remember your friend, if you store it to long it will go bad.
The Shield – at 11:37
Very well said. Thank you. (Good advice on teh beer for JWB also).
The Shield – at 11:37
All the food and water will mean nothing if some scum bag kicks in your door and takes it (and your family’s life) from you.
Thanks. My wife and I both have license’s to carry concealed firearms. We have had them for as long as I can remember, so it’s sort of as common as having my wallet with me. At the house I have enough heavy firepower to hold off a platoon.
There are many people (lurkers at this site) who may have now started to consider owning a gun. PLEASE get proper training, PLEASE train with it until you are comfortable with it, PLEASE keep it safe from children or anybody else that matter.
A can of Wasp spray isn’t going to stop a gang.
I would like to share with all of you a somewhat funny story about gun safety.
When I was finally old enough to own my very own Daisy BB gun, (I envied my older brothers for years ;-) ), my father told one of my brothers to go out and teach me about gun safety.
These particular BB guns were the kind that you pour in a bunch of BB’s and you cock once. You couldn’t pump them up any more than that, so they didn’t have much ‘firepower’.
This was in the days of Pro Keds tennis shoes. The kind that had a large rubber area above the toes. Well, my brother said, “Lesson one. Do this.” He cocked his gun and pointed directly on his shoe above his toe and pulled the trigger.
I was amazed that it didn’t hurt, so I proceeded to do the same. (Little did I realize that he didn’t have ANY BB’s in HIS gun!) So I pulled my trigger and boy did that hurt !! As I was hopping up and down holding my foot he said, “Lesson one: Never point your gun at anything that you don’t want to put a hole in!”
Some lessons in life you just never forget! 8-D
JWB - I’m saying some prayers for you, your friend, and his family. You’re an angel on earth to do what you are doing.
JWB – at 12:36 ………As I was hopping up and down holding my foot he said, “Lesson one: Never point your gun at anything that you don’t want to put a hole in!”
That’s a funny story that could have ended much differently — fortunately it was your foot you were pointing at and not someone’s face! :-)
It’s good that we learn some lessons forever isn’t it?!
I’m so sorry, JWB. It’s such a shock to the system to lose someone you know to senseless violence.
(Reading your story about the BB gun: All I could think of was that “You’ll shoot your eye out!” line from “A Christmas Story”.LOL)
First, Thanks mods for fixing that error.
Brock – at 16:22
And yes, there will be murderous people out the when this pandemic hits. Having three members of my/my wife’s murdered on two different occations in two differnt states, I’m a true believer that it can happen to me and my loved ones.
Thanks Brock. I can’t imagine what you and your wife must have and are going through.
And A HUGE THANKS to Milo, KimT (martial arts and armed? whew, wouldn’t want to mess with you!),
Green Mom (18th is getting close!), crfullmoon, Newsie, Blue, AD, Influentia2, Snowhound1, jquest, Prepping Gal, I’m-workin’-on-it, katherine, Many Cats (luv the sign!), Annoyed Max- Not mad yet, The Shield (yep, I think I will drink those beers!), Are we there yet , History Lover (I’m no angel, just ask the wife! ;-) ), Texas Rose (I love that movie!).
JWB- I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. Loosing someone so young is bad enough, but so senselessly and in such a violent manner is just heartbreaking. Bless you for helping his family. They will need lots support right now and you’re right, flu will not be top of mind for them.
Shield - also, most of our tiny police force doesn’t even live in our town. They can’t afford the outrageous home prices or property taxes. They’ll be more likely to hunker down at home, maybe form protection groups with their OWN neighbors, not hopping in a car and driving to help our townfolk, some of whom treat the police and fire department like dirt (they think because they have money they can). I never, ever, ever considered owning a gun. However, at a minimum dh and I are discussing it. We’re not there yet but may have to be at some point.
Prepping gal - while there hasn’t been any violence in Indonesia, they are not even close to full-blown sh** hitting the fan. Only a relatively small number of people have been sick/died, people aren’t starving, there’s fresh water, etc. Due to their circumstances, many are used to getting by without much. If it hits here, watch out. It’s a whole other story. Even your normally “normal” neigbors could be driven to do things thye’ve never even dreamed possible.
JWB - I am so sorry to read about your friend Joe and his family. What a painful loss. It will feel so good to help them out and know how Joe would appreciate it. What a loving gift. It is such a shock to the system when someone especially such a wonderful friend is suddenly gone. Again, I’m sorry.
I don’t usually read this thread as I’m one of those folks who has a hard time thinking about needing ‘lethal force’ preps. Years ago, a very large deranged man kicked in my locked heavy wooden storm door and came after me. Fortunately I’d seen him crossing my yard and was able to call the Sheriff who came immediately. It all turned out ok…well, except for the terror of it all. Whenever I think of prep mauraders I picture the zombies from ‘The Night of the Living Dead’. Very scary.
I can see that I need to take action. Thanks for the push.
I’m sure there are many people (lurkers, etc.) on here sending you and Joe’s wife and children much love. Including me.
bird-dog – at 17:01 picture the zombies from ‘The Night of the Living Dead’.
My mental image is that from Omega Man. Remember the well prepped man with generators, food, light etc and the Mob of the sick. And like the movie, transfusions may end up being the thing that saves people.
DennisC - I’ll have to rent that one. Thanks, I could use a new image! <grin>
bird-dog – at 17:10 I am not sure it will be a much better image. But it does have a happy/hopeful ending.
LOL. I do watch probably too many scary movies and I love sci-fi, 24, Prison Break, etc. Too bad I can’t get cable tv… You’d think that I’d shy away from that stuff. Just weird, I guess. Thanks Dennis.
LauraB, Bird-dog, Thank you so much.
DennisC
That was a great movie.
Playing a long game of chess against myself is on my SIP list.
JWB – at 17:23 well if the net stays up I will play you by email.
Once upon a time 2 perps forced my door and entered my home; they were greeted with a cocked .45. I’m glad they backed up when told to do so, as I would have been obliged to replace the carpet. There have been several times when I *really* needed a firearm, and after the first time I made sure I had one.
this has been discussed here off and on for a year. there are threads about home safety and wiki threads about see Will Stewart’s .pdf (document password = “fluwikie”). Many of us are gun-owners and many are not.
However, the function of the forum is not to dwell on how much ammo is enough (the title of a now-defunct thread).
because of the contentious threads and the idea that over-discussion of guns was scaring off new users, the mods decided to discourage the topic here (see rule #12).
There are other places on the web to discuss self-defense. We cannot be everything to everyone. It isn’t a matter of blithely ignoring the issue. We would rather focus on helping each other as a community than sharing ideas of how to arm oneself to the exclusion of other topics.
for other threads on the topic, see security. please check the Forum Index (found in the L sidebar) before assuming we haven’t diuscussed something - maybe we have.
In comparing possible US violence to Indonesia we must conside financial differences. If everyone is dirt poor with meager means- there would probably be fewer home break-ins, less kick in the door activity- because there would be nothing worth the effort. However if a home appears to be well off, one might assume there would be possible food, guns etc inside. I would think the more well to do homes would be at higher risk if TSHTF.
DemFromCT
Thanks for putting the thread back on track. I’m guilty too of the ‘thread drift’. (Niman would agrue thread recombination ;-) ).
8-D
JWB at 20:31: LOL!!! Thread recombination is a cause for concern!!!
I was very emotional when I started this thread. And I posted:
The violence will be real. Please be prepared for it.
I really meant to be emotionally prepared.
It just really hit home that things are going to be devastating.
Many Cats – at 20:36
And more information would be useful!
JWB: You are TOO FUNNY!!! Thanks for the laughs!!! :)
JWB — any news yet on any suspects in the case? (Probably too early, I know.)
On guns: I’m not a gun owner. Not my thing, partly because I’m way WAY too clumsy for that. Dangerously clumsy. I’d probably shoot my eye out (or worse) just trying to load the thing. :-)
And kudos for you prepping for your friend’s family. You do us proud.
Milo – at 20:57
Yes. The police profile is a drug user who recently moved into the area. Joey recoginze his killer. He was shot 3 times close range. (Joey looked like a linebacker, one shot would have simply pissed him off.) The killer wasn’t going to leave any witnesses. Last night the Brusters ice cream shop next to Joe place was broken into. I can’t go into anymore detail than that, other than this person WILL slip up. Patrols are everywhere. We have state and county police in on the patrols. When this police force gets pissed, things happen.
Here is a link that has his picture:
http://tinyurl.com/wueos Always smiling.
One more note. He wouldn’t mind that a thread that started as a result from his death had jokes in it. In fact, he would demand it!!!
Since shooting sports is my thing I came across this little tidbit. 32%wow (I am sure its not cause everyone has taken up skeet shooting)
According to the National Shooting Sports Federation overall firearms and ammo sales are up over 10% compared to 1st quarter of last year. Sales of ammunition are up 32% as part of that overall number.
The figures are calculated based on the Pittman Robertson excise taxes as a percentage of wholesale receipts paid by manufacturers on sporting arms and ammunition.
Annoyed Max at 11:50-The telling part of those statistics that you reported is the increase in the sales of ammunition. It would not take that many would-be preppers “sniffing the wind” to generate those increases by deciding to really load up for their various firearms that they have had for years. I see that stat as a clear sign that there is a significant underground of responsible citizens who are looking out towards the immediate and near-term future and seeing some dire outcomes, panflu related and not.
The scum don’t think that way. The next day’s fix and a half-box of old ammo is good enough for them.
In terms of emotional preparation for violence, I recommend reading “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin deBecker. For those who have not read the book, this is not a book on how to arm oneself but an excellent book on recognizing one’s gut level reaction in response to a situation and not dismissing that reaction.
OTOH, with the sunset of the Assault Weapons Ban, certain firearms are now available which have not been for the last several years. This could all just be pent up demand.
Military use around the world and some legislative proposals both US and international have led to shortages and rapidly rising prices in combat calibers since the first of the year. I have been suprised to find local and online dealers temporarily backordered on very common types of ammunition and prices are definitely UP!
Bear in mind that lead and zinc and copper are all at or near all-time high prices; metals in general are way up, and I attribute that to oil runup not panflu fears.