Batman was a popular TV serial back in the late 1960s and a favorite of mine. On one program a dastardly villain had let a plague loose on Gotham City that threatened its survival. Batman saved the day by taking a sample of the disease down to the Bat Cave where he cooked up an antidote amidst an array of test tubes, Bunsen burners, bubbling colored water, and condensers. Once he prepared a few ounces of the antidote, in a day or two, everyone was cured and the villain’s plan foiled again.
When I read the claims made for some of the alternative and herbal therapies touted for bird flu and the promised medical breakthroughs coming out of the conventional pharmaceutical or university research labs, this episode of Batman comes to mind. If only it was so easy.
The truth is that new drugs and vaccines take years to develop, not day, weeks, or even months. The cost averages between $500 million to $1 billion to turn a laboratory idea into a drug at the pharmacy. There are complex reasons for this. The first and foremost is to ensure that the drug or vaccine is safe and effective. Biology plays a role in this because you have to have people with the disease take the treatment. Enough time must pass for there to be a statistically significantly better outcome to be detected in those treated with the new agent. This requires a placebo-controlled trial or in some cases a comparator trial where the new drug is tested against an existing one.
We all know that the pharmaceutical business makes a lot of money. What most folks don’t know is how many great lab ideas are worked up each year and totally fail to perform as hoped. We never hear about this in the press. The reason we are hearing about these very early bird flu lab discoveries today is because of the high degree of public interest in the bird flu story and their growing desperation with the present treatments available. The developers of these new products are also interested in attacking financial backing for them and others are interesting is selling their ideas or alternative products. These needs and desires lead to PR that leads to the media that results in news stories.
In an earlier thread, I made the case for those interested in alternative therapies for flu prepare by first obtaining all they needed to manage the disease conventionally before investing in alternative approaches. I call this approach The Two Tract Strategy. I urge all those getting ready for the pandemic consider the wisdom of this approach. We do not need to give up hope that a new method of making flu vaccine much faster and in huge quantities may be developed. It is likely that new anti-viral drugs will be developed for flu too. It is possible that an herbal or alternative approach will prove effective. Just don’t bet the farm on it. The prudent course is to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
Grattan Woodson, MD, FACP
Where is Batman when we need him?
One of my concerns is that if we find ourselves in the middle of a moderate to severe pandemic, and suddenly a “miracle” cure appears on the market (vaccine, treatment, etc.) would I be willing to take it myself or have my family take it? If the situation is bad, I imagine that “they” (the pharmaceutical companies and various governments) will be rushing drugs and treatments through testing and many will get approval, before the true side effects could be studied and known. I won’t be a first responder, but if I were and they were trying to get me to take a brand new, relatively untested drug, how secure would I feel in taking it? I think I would feel a little like Dr. Jekyll, and hoping I wouldn’t suffer the Mr. Hyde side effect.
I don’t worry about the “take it or not take it” question. We are not essential works, and we don’t live in a large city, or even a town for that matter. Before there is “cure” enough for me and mine, it will have been tested for a year on others.
Carrey in VA:
I find it annoying that first responders are suppossed to step up to the plate and take any concoction presented, so the other layers of society can determine if the kill rate on first responders is too high to be acceptable to the rest of the massess. Carrey in VA I don’t mean you personally, I understand your sentiments, especially regarding vaccines.
But as a first line responder and privy to thoughts of a small group of nurses, paramedics, policeman and doctors let me say this: We aren’t stupid. If the PF comes this way with the same high CFR I think it’s time someone shatters the 30–40% absentee rate myth. That rate might hold for office workers, but for first line responders in the health sectors I’m willing to venture upward to a 80% absentee rate or higher. The 9–11 first responders is a classic example. Society doesn’t care after the emergency is over.
Leo7 - 12:14
I NEVER ment that first responders should be made to take any concoction presented. Nor, did I mean that they should be used as guinea pigs for “the rest of us”. I only said that, first responders will be giving the “cure” first, in attempts to protect them first. Me, and mine, just lowly “masses” won’t be given the chance of a “cure” untill much, much, much later.
I know you said not me personally, but I wanted to make sure that my thoughts were spelled out incase someone reads what I said the wrong way.
Leo7….If the PF comes this way with the same high CFR I think it’s time someone shatters the 30–40% absentee rate myth. That rate might hold for office workers, but for first line responders in the health sectors I’m willing to venture upward to a 80% absentee rate or higher. The 9–11 first responders is a classic example. Society doesn’t care after the emergency is over.
Hey, Leo7, I’m not following your statement fully — I TOTALLY understand that you feel the 30–40% absentee rate might hold for offices, but that you feel that it would be closer to 80% absenteeism in first responders, but I don’t understand your example of 9–11 responders & society not caring after the emergency is over.
Are you referring to the awful respiratory problems related to the clean up that are now being lived through, or causing deaths or are you referring to something else that I might not be aware of or have unfortunately forgotten?
Sandra Perko wrote a book on an alternative treatment of the Spanish Flu of 1918 and describes good results — even tho the pharmaceutical companies may not approve. The title is ‘The Homeopathic Treatment of Influenza’. As someone who has found homeopathy effective with a variety of things, it seems one more alternative that we should consider as we consider the ‘two tract strategy’ of Dr. Woodson.
I’m working on it:
They are dying, because they were told the air quality was within acceptable limits. It was too hot at the inferno site to keep masks on for 8–12 hour shifts. The truth is when possible time for survivors was over they should have been pulled out—until the site was cooler and the air less dirty. The gov which is suppossed to be we the people wanted NY and Wall Street back ASAP—so they were expendable.
The first line responders might say nothing could have kept them from going back-I say loss of jobs and benefits would have sufficed because anyone with two eyes and seeing the pollution of the smoke and debris had to know their lungs were being covered in it. The workers had PTSD and were overwhelmed with grief and couldn’t think clearly at the time to make the best decision for their own health. Cool headed-hard hearted people should have stepped forward and pulled them out of there.
They couldn’t get workmans comp if they filed over two years past 9–11. The gov sent paltry funds to monitor their health—heck—the argument can be made Tom Cruise cared more for their health—he supported natural treatments for them. Now they can’t work, can’t breathe, can’t sleep, feel discarded, can’t make mortgage payments, can’t pay college tuition etc. When I sent money after 9–11, I didn’t send money to make rich 9–11 widows, I thought it was going to support the 911 workers as well. It didn’t. The lesson is clear on first responders and we got the message.
Carrie in Va: One of my posts got dropped. I think you’re a good guy so I’m sorry I shouldn’t have put your handle at the top.
I think we should focus on paragraph 3 of the Doctors first post—that is where the truth is. I believe some of the posts coming out about vaccines and antivirals is to calm the 2% (like us) who are seeing through the BS and getting more vocal. I’m seeing a general trend upward with pie in sky news on treatments that should never even make mainstream commentary. It’s making me annoyed—almost mad—sorry Max.
Leo7. I for one, really appreciated your post at 13:21.
We too often have been the victim of bland, spun statements from authorities who in my opinion, don’t give a damn.
It was really nice to hear an uncensored comment from the heart…
…when I get sick, I want you as my healthcare worker…I know I won’t get sold short…Thanks!!!!! /:0)
Leo7, I clearly remember the EPA stating that “the air was safe to breath” around ground zero. The either lied or did not know how to do their job. Everyone who acted based upon this information has harmed by it. In my book this is negligence if they error was unintentional and criminal negligence if it was intentional. The statute of limitations may have passed for a civil action but not a criminal prosecution by the US Attorney for NY or for the NY Attorney General’s office. Mr. Spitzer seems interested in investigating a lot of things outside of NY, maybe his office can take a little time away from the Governor’s race to look after the brave men and woman now disabled due to their heading the EPAs advisory.
Grattan Woodson
TomDVM:
Thank you. I was disappointed that doctors in NYC didn’t go on the media about the workers exposure. They were probably afraid a mob would attack them, because let’s face it—people sent millions to NYC, because they were moved to tears watching the workers walk into that hell day after day. Americans at their finest hour. It was the bravest thing I ever saw, but I knew they were looking at lung transplants. I’m continually amazed when others seem surprised their health has collapsed. I truly feel sorry for their predicament.
I agree, Tom, with your statement! I knew that workers were dying from such horrible respiratory issues as well as the fallout caused by their illnesses and have seen reports from the group that is heading up donations for them and their families. Couldn’t have said it better Leo, how money we donated and thought would help EVERYone, including the search dogs, went to everyone else except the searchers. I thought that’s what you meant by your statement, but worried that there was something else I might have missed — as if the one thing isn’t criminal enough.
And I certainly understand your statement that you’ve all learned your lessons — I HOPE that you all have, but I fear that some didn’t and we will experience this same needless loss of life again if, as you described it, ‘Cool headed-hard hearted people should have stepped forward and pulled them out of there’, don’t do the right thing the next time around.
I hope those nearest you are eternally grateful for your knowledge and willingness to help them prepare & that they listen to you now so you don’t have to be put in a position to say no to them later.
The Doctor at 14:12:
The EPA did say it. But I’m one who uses my senses and my eyes told me, the EPA was clearly wrong. You could hear them coughing as they walked in and out. I think people were too shocked to think for a week or two. By then, the damage was done. BTW, thanks for the first post, it summed up the current state of affairs.
Leo7 – at 12:14
re:”But as a first line responder and privy to thoughts of a small group of nurses, paramedics, policeman and doctors let me say this: We aren’t stupid. If the PF comes this way with the same high CFR I think it’s time someone shatters the 30–40% absentee rate myth.
Very true and very overlooked. I plan to work, but I’m 55 and have no young children dependent on me; the vast majority of HCW’s can’t say that.
Doctor: once again, thanks for the great analogy, and good information. Wish the docs I deal with were so forthcoming!
“The either lied or did not know how to do their job. Everyone who acted based upon this information has harmed by it. In my book this is negligence if they error was unintentional and criminal negligence if it was intentional.” The Doctor 14:12.
It seems that we currently are discussing a parallel situation. So my question is that if the World Health Organization or any single professional within the World Health Organization is being deliberately and knowingly misleading…and millions die as a result or if they deliberately or knowing withhold information that would have allowed world regulators and governments to prepare.
Are these persons subject to charges of ‘Crimes Against Humanity’ or are they immune from prosecution and can say and do whatever they want with impunity.
The 9–11 site had high levels of tritium detected. Makes you wonder why it was so hot 7 stories below the debris enought to keep huge quantities of molten steel hot for weeks.
question911.com
Google “messages in the dust” for a review of the pre/post 911 environmental health response. There are lessons to be applied to a pandemic that parallel what happened in NYC.
Here is the URL - http://tinyurl.com/yhptl3
The first responers for 911 suffer from the same fixed system ALL workers suffer from. Being assured of safety, health problems are minimized and ignored until the “filing for claims clock” runs out. Its makes it more dramatic due to the purpose and motivations of these particular workers, but it is absolutely typical treatment of ALL workers and veterans. I think such a public lesson is NOT lost on many people, and more people do understand that your gift is not going to earn reciprocal support. In talking to young people, they now have an innate cynicism that goes beyond what this old curmudgeon ever has had. Expect a lower turnout.
You can be sure there will many “miracle” cures emerge (they are now!)when PF gets going,and evaluating credibility will not be easy. You can be sure that a truly credible vaccine will need to be produced in enough quantity to serve the powerful (paid for by government) and wealthy ($10,000 a shot? why not?) first before it gets available to many others.
Hmm, the rich and powerful and connected are the first in line to get insufficiently tested medicines/vaccines that may have horrible side effects? Maybe there is a God.
Olymom- I am laughing so hard my belly hurts! Thank you!
Heck I knew that those responders and people cleaning up the mess were going to have trouble in the future. I think a lot of those working at that site where driven men. I think they are being short changed. You know The first Queen Elizabeth ignored the sailors who saved England from the Armada. You lost a leg, and arm your eyesight, and need to beg in the streets ?Too bad. That’s the way it always was and always will be.To this day I haven’t gone to ground zero.
There are military vets who are suffering illnesses from the first Gulf War that are being ignored, and some of these illnesses come from vaccines that were given. And what about all the Vietnam vets suffering from PTSD and Agent Orange exposure and God knows what else. I feel that its absolutly shamefull the way our Government treated and contines to treat both its military and its first responders. But yeah, that sort of thing goes waaaaay back.