From Flu Wiki 2

Forum: Strategies to Foster Self Reliance

19 October 2006

lugon – at 08:57

The next flu pandemic will cause Disease, Deaths and Disruption. If we want to mitigate disruption, one of the strategies is to have “sorter supply chains”.

Personally, I’d rather call them “supply networks”, if and when you can select from multiple providers. Actually, if your network is really a chain, with just one provider, then you’re in trouble. Think fossil fuels. Think some antivirals. Deep trouble.

Anyway, we want “shorter supply chains”. Less distance from farm to table. Less dependency on foreign oil, foreign food, foreign basic stuff. Yeah, ok, no problem if your child gets her video-games from the other end of the world. Disruption in that area? Play cards. Not so with water, food and energy.

So how do we foster self-reliance? Pandemic fear and SIP recomendations may move 1 to 5% of the population at most; post Katrina research seems to show just that. Others will be moved by profit, tax-deductions, personal fulfillment, and a number of other things. There’s a great percentage of the population in our towns and countries who will react to this sort of things, but will not move a finger if we tell them about pandemic flu.

Thing is, we want to see more self-reliance, all over the world, whatever the motivation. How do we do it?

A nice dream here (courtesy of Australian permaculture site).

crfullmoon – at 09:38

(Talk to the local farmer’s marekt, and community garden groups? There are model schools that use gardening and cooking with the children as part of all their curriculum.

“Slow Food is a non-profit, eco-gastronomic member-supported organization that was founded in 1989 to counteract fast food and fast life, the disappearance of local food traditions and people’s dwindling interest in the food they eat, where it comes from, how it tastes and how our food choices affect the rest of the world. Today, we have over 80,000 members all over the world. Find out more about us and what we do”… http://www.slowfood.com/ )

Can states or regions agree homeland security would mean having pharma manufacturing plants in their region; good jobs, choose having more control of supply chain over cheaper overseas costs?

Make it a source of pride to get energy from your own region, however that suits yours best?

If you live in a region that has to get their water from somehwere else, really focus on that as a “way of life” that needs to be negotiated to a sustainable water use.

Can local-self-reliance be a source of pride (marketed to the public the way so much other non-essential stuff seems to sucessfully be?)

OnandAnonat 10:29

In order to have self-reliant communities we have to have self-reliant people. That’s so obvious that I think many times it gets overlooked.

You cannot require, direct or force people to be self reliant; that is a trait that comes from within. You can encourage it rather than discourage it, but the nature of such social engineering gets into rather messy discussions of politics and philosophy, which I have previously declined to get involved in. I have very strong opinions about such things but this is probably not the place to do so absent the unanimous consent of the moderators.

If we cannot socially engineer self-reliance, nature will do so for us. All that survive the coming pandemic will likely share several characteristics-

-They will be self-sufficient;

-They will be most suspicious of the pronouncements of government;

-They will be polite. (armed societies are polite)

I’m-workin’-on-it – at 10:31

You need Dr. Dave’s 17 page write-up — it’s very well done.

kc_quiet – at 10:43

How did /do we teach anything else socially responsible? Movies, ad campaigns, school programs, etc. We need to find the right PR to make people realize it is socially unacceptable to be so dependent.

kc_quiet – at 10:43

How did /do we teach anything else socially responsible? Movies, ad campaigns, school programs, etc. We need to find the right PR to make people realize it is socially unacceptable to be so dependent.

gardner – at 10:55

There was an op-ed in my local paper a few months ago urging a move toward sustainable communities and renewable energy. It was greeted by a couple angry letters to the editor denouncing the writer for being anti-business, anti-development, and basically communistic. It’s going to be a hard slog to convince everyone to be more responsible. A lot of people are going to resist it.

Snowhound1 – at 11:11

Until there is a strong stimulus for people to understand why they need to be more self reliant, nothing will change in my mind. Particularly in the United States, where we live some of the “easiest” lives in the world. Lunch and dinner are just one stop away as fast food restaurants dominate the urban landscape. Heck, people don’t even brew their own coffee anymore, they just stop at Starbucks on their way to work.

The last two generations have had absolutely no complications in this “easy” life and see no reason to think that it will ever change. Of course, once the change comes, (perhaps in the form of a pandemic, but certainly other possibilities exist), these same people will be the ones least prepared and will suffer the most. They might know how to program a computer, send e-mails with their Blackberries, and can tell you the list price for a new Lexus, but they don’t even have enough food in their homes to feed themselves over a weekend. They don’t want their easy life to change and have convinced themselves that this (unprecedented in history) “easy” life is going to last forever. I think it is going to be very ugly, when the change arrives.

Malachi – at 11:53

We need to get away from the “victory gardens”being full of roses.I look back on my upbringing on a struggling dairy farm as my salvation when it comes to knowing that hard times can and will come.

Jane – at 12:21

Having a community farm is now being discussed in Evanston, IL. Also gardens at elementary schools, although I am sure of only one operating now. Guest speakers came to the first open meeting and discussed their operating gardens, one in the inner city and another with workers who are usually hard to place. Their produce is sold to excellent restaurants and at farmers’ markets.

The practical self-reliant ideal doesn’t have to be the only motivator. There’s also the educational aspect for children-math, history, science, health (the kids eat what they plant). Employing ex-prisoners or mentally handicapped people might motivate altruists. Edible landscaping could be a new path for garden clubs, possibly; I’m not a member so I don’t know how receptive any particular group would be.

Chicago has water barrels for residents, either free or subsidized, to catch rainwater instead of letting it go into the sewers. City Hall has a garden on the roof, even. Probably not food, though, more for cooling the summer heat. The Chicago Tribune has gardening contests, the best small garden, for example. Wonder if they’d do one on the Most Productive Small Backyard?

Bird Guano – at 13:11

Start with the business schools that teach and foster just-in-time and supply chain management, and management by metrics.

Unless you can impact the bottom line ($$$)in a positive way, and have a sea-change in the way supply chain management is taught in biz school, you have no hope of changing the way business is currently done.

AFTER a pandemic, you may have a window of opportunity to make a large change for the better/future, but PRE-pandemic, I just do NOT see it happening.

It’s too ingrained in the Global business culture.

This coming from an MBA program graduate.

My $0.02

LMWatBullRunat 13:47

BG-

I agree. JIT works great, right up until it doesn’t.

Then the cry will be ‘It’s not our fault! we did what everyone else was doing!’

Reality and H5N1, however, won’t care whose fault it was. H5N1 has the potential to reacquaint us with Reality. The lessons that will be learned will be very painful.

“…the Gods of the Copybook Headings with Terror and Slaughter return.”

Texas Rose – at 16:39

There also needs to be a sea change in the thinking that working with one’s hands is to be avoided at all costs(or hire someone else to do it). There is absolutely nothing wrong in learning how to fix things, how to make things, how to DO things yet it seems like those who can’t look down on those who can.

I was raised with the oft-said “God helps those who help themselves” and as I’ve grown older I can see the wisdom in learning how to do things for myself rather rather than having to depend on others to do them for me because I don’t know how.

As an aside: I took an auto mechanics class way back when so I could learn basic auto maintenance. Many years later, I showed both my children how to change a tire, change the oil, and check the fluid levels on our cars. They were amazed that their ordinary mom knew such things…and that I still was a member of the auto club. Just because I know how doesn’t mean I want to do it.LOL

20 October 2006

Malachi – at 08:58

I try to get it thru my kids heads to never ask anyone to do anything for them that they can do themselves.Mostly I meant get a glass of water or find their socks but I am glad they are somewhat self relient.Last night I showed my preteen boys where all our canned dry foods are and had them open a can of mixed bean soup and make up some of it.It was okay tasting and I told them some stuff they would need to know if we were sick and they needed to take care of us.If any of us get sick I would rather it be me than them but I guess that is against the odds.

This fall I offered to help anyone at my church with canning or learning to can.I only had one taker and did feel proud to teach one gal how to preasure and hot bath can.I got her to get the blue book for herself.We canned 12 pints of chicken breast and 24 quarts of tomatoes for her and she will always know how to do it for herself now.

Those that know…Take the time to show!!!!

lugon – at 09:21

Reading through all the above comments I think “motivation” (from within) is key, as is “practical oportunities” (from without). People have always had the motivation to communicate, and now cell phones make it convenient.

Could we see the same trend regarding food and energy? Who would be interested in that as a business? Wal-Marts selling cute and trendy biodigesters and biogas applications? What’s more convenient than not having to take home rubish to the street?

Jane – at 12:16

Do you think having a social aspect would help? There used to be quilting bees, a social form of creating something useful by recycling worn clothing. Now women do scrapbooking, getting together to make something beautiful from photos and souvenirs. There are Christmas cookie trading parties, too. For self-reliance, I’ve heard of seed-swapping. Maybe in spring there could be neighborhood tilling parties, getting the ground ready for gardens. (So long as the pandemic holds off, and we’re not contagious.) Although I don’t know whether the ideal has to be adopted first, before people feel like attending a get-together, or whether having a party would help get the ideal across.

More on a previous post: here’s a link to Green Chicago, with its downloadable pdfs., including rooftop gardens and disconnecting downspouts. http://www.mcachicago.org/massivechange/prt2_cgt.html

21 October 2006

LMWatBullRunat 13:27

bump

Jane – at 13:55

Bird Guano at 13:11: Start with the business schools that teach and foster just-in-time and supply chain management, and management by metrics. Unless you can impact the bottom line ($$$)in a positive way, and have a sea-change in the way supply chain management is taught in biz school, you have no hope of changing the way business is currently done.

Taxes have something to do with JIT, too. Businesses are taxed on inventory, so that discourages them from having much. Not too far back, publishers were added to the list of businesses taxed on inventory, and that had an impact on authors and bookstores. Congress has a responsibility here; they should revise the rules.

Green Mom – at 14:23

Its a real slow go, but I think people are, slowly, moving in a more sustainable direction-Ive been tracking this all my life. Some encouraging signs-

1) celebraties jumping on the “Green” wagon, I was personally thrilled to see several arive at major award shows in their Prius cars instead of a strech limo.

2)Handcrafts-knitting and crocheting have just exploded in the few years-its become stylish and hip.

3) mags like “Make” and its new sister mag “Craft” and “ReadyMade” plus tons of internet DIY sites and blogs. Whole tv DIY channels, house and garden shows sewing shows, “Project Runway” is a HUGE hit and is inspiring people to sit down at their sewing machines. “Top Chef” Iron Chef/ “No Reservations”-all these are really inspiring people.

4) Yes, the Slow Food movement is (slowly) taking off.

Malachi-As a teen I used to watch the “Victory Garden” on tv with my grandmother. She had an actual Victory Garden during the Big War. She thought Roger Swain could walk on water-and there was another guy whose name I can’t come up with now, and after the show we would walk out to her garden and talk about green matters, she allways had a huge vegtable garden-and yes, she dearly loved her roses, but the veggies came first. I think she would be very disappointed in the VG as it is now.

Yeah, its gonna take a whole lot more than some tv shows, but theres a healthy and substatial grassroots movement going on and it is beginning to penetrate main stream America. I sense the tide is turning. I just hope it isn’t too late……

Kathy in FL – at 16:10

In years past it seemed like there was no time for anything but work. Not necessarily true, but people did physically work a great deal of the time.

The change to the “convenience” life-style was supposed to mean that people had more time.

But in reality, look around you. Most households have both partners (married or not) working outside the home in some fashion, if not full-time, to pay for the maintenance of this “convenient” lifestyle.

We work to put our kids in daycare and in the “right” schools. We work to buy our families all the toys and gadgets that are supposed to be part of this “convenient” lifestyle. We work to pay for the house that is supposed to be ours by right of doing the right thing in this “convenient” world we live in.

But in truth … we are working and there is little time to experience the “convenient” part of the modern life. We are busting our buns so that we have time to work to pay for a lifestyle we don’t have time to enjoy.

To go with that shortage of time, we have become dependent on “convenience” items and “convenience” shopping. The old skills are lost.

How many of us here on fluwiki alone have sung the lament of there not being enough time?

But once you are on that merry-go-round it is awful hard to hop off. For some it is impossible without severe financial sacrifices such as letting houses go back to the banks and maybe bankruptcy itself. Social and familial sacrifices that some aren’t prepared to make. Even when the sacrifices are made there are still silent traps that hold us back form 100% commitment to a change in lifestyle.

I believe that all we can do is espouse the benefits of a change toward self-sufficiency. Model the successes … and not whine about the failures. Until a person or family unit is ready to make those “sacrifices of convenience” they won’t do it. Even with the greatest threats, stimuli, and/or reward system(s) in place a change won’t be made until someone is ready to make it.

We can model, but we cannot mandate.

heddiecalifornia – at 16:28

There is a new graduate school of management out near Seattle that offers an MBA, and several certificates, in the field of “sustainable business development.” Program looks pretty good.

 Seems the logical and natural way to run a business, but TPTB have so much invested in globalization, JIT, and making money for the corporate overlords that they want it to appear to be ‘counter cultural’ and sort of ‘subversive.’ If we don’t make a cultural ‘u-turn’ soon, we’re going off the cliff.     
lugon – at 18:45

I must say I deeply resonate with all previous posts. Apparently, there’s about 50 million http://www.culturalcreatives.org in the USA, and a similar number in the EU. And more in other places are “leapfrogging” (making the jump directly into sustainable practices) out of sheer need, as when a village in India uses solar cooking.

I’ve pre-bought the book at http://www.worldchanging.com The tools are all already there, I think.

Of course, most “cultural creatives” don’t get it (panflu, I mean). But they are quite close, maybe. And some aspects are mixed, as when “local food” is not exactly the same as “sustainably grown food” (see here).

I keep wondering how fast we can move forward. Maybe if we join forces we could go for different levels at different stages? What’s the minimum, and could pols and communities call for it and a myriad small business make small money out of making it happen?


Just today, I read this: With its moulded plastic construction and 1m3 capacity it takes only 2–3 hours to install, and is cheaper and easier to put in place than the dung based plant. Its relatively small size means it can be used in urban houses and even apartments, which is a break-through in the world of biogas production.

It has even attracted keen interest from the Pune urban administration who are keen to find an effective disposal system for the growing food waste in the area as they have recently stopped collecting food waste due to the shortage of landfill sites available.

So far, 700 units have been installed in the state of Maharashtra. The potential for rapid replication is vast. According to Dr. Ronald W. Larson, Chair of the American Solar Energy Society: “I predict that we will see a very large proportion of the world’s 2 billion poor, as well as the more affluent, seeing this as their technology of choice in the future”.


Maybe it’s more than “a handful of tools” like the one above. Maybe it’s more like 10 or 20 tools. Waste for energy. Solar for cooking. Gardens for food. I really want that book, and a practical version for my own home. And a way for maybe 10% of people to join in in one year.

Let’s keep trying and join forces.

lugon – at 18:56

One interesting aspect is that “as well as the more affluent” part (see above post). Let me expand …

There was this cruel attempt at humor: “people starve for two reasons - some have no money to eat, others have no time to eat”.

From the above posts I see I’m not alone in not having lots of available time to “head for the hills”. I’m a “type II” poor, then. Maybe I would be able to use a simple biodigester if I could buy it. There are no patents. Could these be bought over the internet? Create a network of biodigester makers that would infiltrate itself in all available networks such as garden cooperatives, green parties and what not?

Could there be a mixture of “for fun”, “for ecology”, “for Earth”, “for fashion”, etc? We could add panflu to the mix and provide focus and a clear reason.

There’s this idea that we’re talking to TPTB. Maybe we should also talk to the new PTB. (I wish.)

Urdar-Norway – at 20:10

Bird G:”It’s too ingrained in the Global business culture.”

there are some very very important mind-changing going on these days, and its a train we all may wanna catch if we like to. Read this article; http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/08/green_wall_stre.php

This is not opposite to profit chasing that has put us in so many bad unwanted situations, but is is a clearly movement into decentralized society, and that is much more solid. The background is of course the understanding of a emergent energy crises that is unavoidable. The crisis has a name, it called PEAK OIL, and is not the end of oil that we have heard so much about, but the peak in production and reserves that easily said.- means that everything will be more expensive.. The worlds population is growing above the planets reserves, and a small percentage is using 90% of the resources.. In the end the math dont summs up good. There is no place for more people living like we do in the “west.”

The growth in economy will change from cheaper and cheaper production into more and more local production. But first the $ powers will squeeze the last drops out of the existing regime. And we will all pay the price. Food prices will raise, travel, heating, disposables.. All this will be a thing in the past when we all more or less will have to harvest our own energy on a local scale.. So this is actually a period in history where the possibility to get a successful business is on its start.

 Use your knowledge, and create a living out of helping both humanity and the planet.

The eco wariors did the testing, now the men with ties are moving in to harvest the knowlegde and experience.

lugon – at 20:19

Urdar-Norway – at 20:10 … Good. And we fluwikians add to the sense of urgency, and the focus on simple, low-tech, easy to spread (as in “copy”, no patents) solutions.

Urdar-Norway – at 20:59

In england they actualy realised that the suburbans was in fact the new english habitat for animals. Those who could survive there, and it was a supricingly large number did so because the gardens had a big enoug wariations on plants, ponds etc. And all the gardeners do theirr best to keep is so by not using chemicals, leaving the compost in a corner etc. All that garden space is big enough to feed a lot of people, It was this that saved the russian populations from starving when the sovjet broke, and is still feeding the masses of pensioners that lost their pensions. I realy cant se that growing vegetables in your garden would put you in a bad social situation as someone has mentioned here before. Or is the amercan reality just as in “american beauty” ? Like when i argued with my father about planting berrys in our summer house, he said we wouldnt bee there to harvest it every year, and my reply was, so? cant we just let the birds enjoy it? A food plant is much more interesting than a simple flower :)

Do as the brits, USE your gardens if you have some. And ban that Roundup shit.

…and if EVERY fluwikans changed ALL their lightbulbs into fluresents or even better LED lamps, the blackouts would be more distant if TSHTF.. Support the small shops nearby, and take some responsibility for the safety and wellbeing of this world, Just start to apriciate real qualities of product and food,it will also make your life richer :-)

janetn – at 21:52

Education, Education and more education. As an above post mentioned most homes have two working adults. They work to pay for all the bells and whistles they have been led to believe will make theeir lives easier and better in quality. They have sold their lives into slavery to maintain what they beleive is the good life. They need to be reducated. otherwise they will believe they are lowering their quality of life.

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