I live in a University town in New Zealand- We have students here from all over the world-USA, thailand- china - the middle east etc. We have just finished our flu season- so I have been repeatedly coughed on. I have walked through gallons of spit on the sidewalks- and tracked it into my house. My kids are at school so any flu I haven’t been able to roll in, they will have brought to me. I never got sick. Would I have had my immune system primed by this???
Would that be the same as having a flu shot?? I was thinking of getting flumist for the boys- heard it could help. But how is getting flumist different than being exposed to the real, live unattenutated flu viri?
I read that being exposed to the H1N1 componant of the vax could prep the body somewhat for H5N1?
clark, I have read one can build up a “library” of flu responses from the different bits of flu one encounters; that’s why I get a flu shot every year so I have at least bits-and-pieces covered. I think it works — a couple times I’ve had what I call “ghost flu” where I get the body aches and fever and that awful flu feeling, and then my immune system kicks in and I’m only sick for a day or two.
I believe if H5N1 reassorts with a common flu, we might have a bit of immunity to the common part. Perhaps one of the finer minds here can jump in with the science that can yay or nay the idea. (s)
Good to see you around, clark! Hope all is well with you and yours.
Hi Northstar I just had to have a break for awhile. It was all tooooo weird and tooo real for me for awhile.
WE are doing fine. My oldest bought his first car, my youngest has started playing touch rugby. It is spring time here- Things are great with all of the ordinary fear, deceit, drama and joy of regular life.
I have been following things on the wiki- have enjoyed your posts about dreams- this whole thing seems like a dream. You are always one of my favorite posters.
That stuff about “if H5N1 reassorts with a common flu, we might have a bit of immunity to the common part”, is what I read too. I have never worried about the boys getting sick- just dying or being maimed. Has anyone had any experience of FluMist?
It is so odd. My kids have not been immunized for anything.
What a nice thing to say! You’ve made my day.
The downside to the reassortment idea is if H5N1 *doesn’t* reassort and comes by its infectivity through point-by-point mutations, it remains a wholly alien avian virus that we have no natural immunity to. I believe that was the case with the 1918 pandemic. It has occured to me the best thing that could happen would be to have a mild, reassorted virus make the rounds before the big one takes off. A mild version of the 1918 virus apparently circled the globe the year before the more virulent version; possibly 1/3 of the population then had a natural immunity to 1918. I hope we are so lucky this time.
It sounds good that you took time to reconnect with family. This is a heavy burden to bear. I’ve made my “peace with the beast” as someone so eloquently put it; I still prep, but at a slower pace, and I almost can’t make myself worry over it.
I haven’t taken Flumist myself, but it’s supposedly no worse than a nasal spray. It is a live virus IIRC, so the immune response to it is stronger.
After my middle child had a horrible reaction as an infant to the Hep B vaccine, I didn’t have her or #3 vaccinated at all. But now, I’ve started them both on the series again; there’s a chance they could see a world where polio and measles are commonplace again. That’s something I don’t want to worry about for them.
Northstar- It was the thought of immunizing our tiny little babies that stopped us. Now that they are big, I am not so concerned. I have never been afraid of most diseases- traveled through India in the early 70s- never worried about getting sick. My Dad told me to just stay healthy and I would be fine (eat well and don’t be stupid).
The threat of H5N1 has changed my life. It is like that Joseph Conrad book “The Journey to the heart of Darkness”. I feel alot more light hearted than before. The bird flu is now part of my everyday day.
The threads with TomDVM talking about prednisolone- and the “ make your own vaccine” thread (Northstar!) are two high points for me. Getting dragged into new worlds- and changing my mind about many things. I guess I have been scared younger (I hope) by fluwiki. Oh yes, I read the Plague Years by Defoe because you posted a few pages of it.
My father inagined that he was immortal (would never die) right up to his death. He was 80 and had lots of prewarning to his demise (it was not sudden) If he had allowed himself to realize that his days were numbered, he would have said and done things differently).
There have been blessings for me, from this. Every moment is precious.
Since there are so many different strains of flu floatng around very year, it’s tough to say that you have immunity to the ones in your area or simply avoided getting it because you weren’t sufficiently exposed. I have three kids and some years we do well and hardly get sick, others we are all hammered with it, often multiple times. The only time I was previously vaccinated was when I was pregnant. And until recently, you could only get babies vax’d, not older children. There’s no telling if vaccinating will help with regular flu or AF. But I figure there is little risk (we have no history of bad vax reactions) and there is only upside. If it means one less round of illness in our house this winter then it’s worth it. Chances are someone will get something! I was able to get vax’d, but so far my ped hasn’t received his supplies yet! A friend who is a pediatrician told me that the mist is better than the shot because it protects against more strains than the shot - the shot usually only covers the three strains scientists THINK will erupt during the year. In the US a lot of insurance companies won’t cover it through because it’s more expensive. Don’t get me strated on the logic of that one…
I’m glad to read this thread,Like northstar and clark above,I had not immunized my kids(13,12,8 and 8) until one day last spring when I felt the sky was falling and then I went on to read an article that stated childhood vaccines would become scarce if the world was working mostly on flu vacs.I never gave disease a second thought when my kids were young.We ate healthy food and exercised,Lived a healthy life.But when I really started educating myself about panflu and what could happen afterwards,I drove right to the school picked up my 4 kids and took them to the health dept for their shots.I questioned myself before we got them,and I question myself now after getting them.It is tearing me up about getting flu vacs now,even tho I got them the pnuemovax.We won’t be able to sip forever and from many threads lately,it may not matter.I guess 36 years of carefree life was a good run.
Hi Malachi
I am glad we didn’t immunize til now- both boys have been really healthy- and are rarely off school with sickness. I have always wanted what was best for the boys rather than supporting some anti-vax or pro-vax dogma. You weigh up the information for/against and take your chances. And live with the good/bad results.
The H5N1 has rocked my world and I am starting to think like you and Northstar. I can imagine the future world will be different from this world and I need to be different accordingly. A current set of vax could be a lifesaver. Which ones?????
Malachi and Northstar, what vax did you decide to give to your kids and why? Have they been OK? Have you got any regrets?
LauraB- I think I will try and get flumist- my kids hate needles- and they are getting too big to just put in the car and take to the doc, no questions asked. There is no forcing them to do things. I have to explain, argue and ultimately, bribe.
Clark…I got the standard recommended ones here in the usa…..Dpt (diptheria tetnus pertussis)When I did it there was a outbreak of whooping cough(pertussis I think) at my older sons school which we did not get.It did weigh on the decision to get them tho,It spooked me that in this day and age we still have a problem with that and come to find out alot of people got that even tho they had had the jab.
Polio
MMR
Hep B
Pneumovax
We still need to go in and finish out our last ones but I was trying to hold out until the flu vax is available.Even tho I am still leary about getting it.
I knew a girl who got the shots on the regular schedule and when her baby was 2 she got more and then came down with autismn.It scared the crap out of me and so decided then I wouldn’t get them for my babies.Maybe I was also suffering from the “Hey we are healthy,nothing can hurt us”issues.Also I have been known to buck the system a bit,I do things that are right for me and screw what anyone else thinks.Believe me I went thru heck with the schools and doctors.To this day we don’t really even have a doctor who is “our doctor” because they didn’t think I was doing right for the kids and let me know that in less than nice ways.One called protective services on me citing that it was child abuse not to vaccinate.
The kids have been fine since they had them.We are still healthy,eat right and exercise too.Shoot those little troopers didn’t evem cry.It was actually quite surprising how easy it went.The first round.Second round was a bit tougher to get them to go and I am trying to figure out the right bribes to have ready for our last round.
I don’t regret getting the shots,but I do regret that my glasses are clear now instead of rose colored.It isn’t nearly as pretty.
Malachi – at 09:53
New studies are showing that autism starts in utero,very early, like first 6 weeks. Moms are exposed or ungest something that leads to it.
clark, any regrets about the vaxxing? I do regret I didn’t get the Hib (meningitis) vaccine for my little one when she was an infant… that could have had serious, fatal consequences if she’d become ill, and completely avoidable. I confused it with the HepB vax (Hepatitis B) which gave my infant #2 fevers/liver problems for 2 months. It was very scary, and when I found out it was to protect from a sexually transmitted disease, I felt like such a fool for allowing my tiny infant to have it. The government wants to make sure everyone gets the Hep B and getting them in the hospital at birth is the most convenient way for them to do that. BTW, the Hib doesn’t protect against the meningitis that is a problem later in life, so there’s no point in getting it past 2 years old. (My ped told me.)
My poor little 7 and 2 year olds each got: _MMR_ (Measles, mumps, rubella — Measles has broken out over here. One infected person on one plane spread it to about a dozen states. Goes to show.)MMR is the one most often fingered by parents as when their child started demonstrating autistic tendancies, though an association is not supported by research. I find it pretty compelling when people tell how their child changed from one day to the next, though. _DtaP_ Diptheria, Tetanus, Peratussis — all ugly illnesses, and preventable. _Varicella_ - chickenpox. Now even my pediatrician is not vaxing her kids against this, preferring a stronger natural immunity, but I was 13 when I got it and vividly remember the misery. This one was a hands-down no-brainer for me. _Polio_ This is an ugly, ugly disease that could bounce back in no time. If it’s that kind of world, I don’t want my kid going that way. I almost feel like it’s a last chance for a vaxx- maybe.
The older one had a large amount of swelling/redness/soreness at the injection site for several days, sucessfully treated with hot compresses & OTC pain meds.
I haven’t found a source for a kid’s flu shot yet, but they’ll get one (at least the ones that can — one’s allergic, which scares me) and my doctor was thrilled out of her gourd when I hesitantly suggested getting them vaxxed against pneumonia. She literally jumped out of her chair with excitement (which surprised and puzzled me. I thought she might object.) It gave me the feeling she knew something I didn’t. I’ve never discussed BF with her.
It’s funny you mention that dreamlike feeling. I have such a feeling of unreality, too, it’s like walking through water. I used to be so worried about BF, but now I’m more happy-go-lucky than ever. I’m intensly enjoying my time with my kids and am much more patient with them. There’s always that thought, what if it — this world we all know — should all go away? What would the most important to me then? Of course the kids, first, foremost and always. And to lose them? The thought lurks in the darkness in back of my mind, always.
Yet, the worse the news, the closer PF seems to get, the less I worry. I am reminded of a state of mind I was once in when, while driving on the freeway, a flatbed truck lost a pallet of bricks right in front of me. Suddenly I am flying through a cloud of bouncing bricks at 70mph. “Ha ha!” I thought. “These can’t be real, they must be styrofoam to bounce like that! Maybe it’s a movie!” And time seemed to slow down; I was so focused and concentrated and almost joyful as I expertly slalomed between the bouncing bricks. I could see where each one was going, and because time had slowed, was able to veer around its trajectory. I remember them bouncing right over my windshield. I remember my screaming tires. Everything is very vivid, crystal clear, even now. The mind is an amazing thing. I thought I’d never have an transcendent experience like that again, but in a way that’s kind of how I feel now, at a real low level.
Ah, well, sorry for blathering on. It’s late, and I’m waiting for my canner to finish. (s) Take care, clark.