After reading many energy/power threads, I have tentatively concluded that the majority here think that natural gas service will more likely remain online, or at least be subject to less disruption, than public electric service. Thus, those of us with natural gas stoves could still prepare hot meals, boil water, etc. Rather than blindly rely on this conclusion,however,I would like to consider the realistic likelihood and potential problems with maintaining continuity in natural gas service. For example,I never thought about the need for electricity in distributing water to customers. Is there some similar hidden weak link in the provision of natural gas service that the average consumer may not realize?
I read somewhere, here or at CE, that said natural gas is pressurized by large electric pumps that have backup generators capable of going a week. I have notural gas & am not gambling on it to stay functioning.
I just spoke with the plant manager of a 400 mega watt natural gas fired combustion turbine generating plant. His take was no electric power means no natural gas. The natural gas relies on electric power to keep it flowing through the pipes.
The natural gas company where I live would install gas line from the street to house, hook up appliances, etc for FREE.
Because I have little confidence in the electric power grid, and because my house WAS an all electric house, I chose to go to the expense of installing a 1,000 gallon propane tank ($3,000), gas line to house ($1,150), and cost to fill tank ($1700). BTW - look on DW and kids face when I told them vacation this was replaced with propane gas system (priceless).
However, given the fluctuation between summer and winter gas price (nearly double), I anticipate a 2 - 3 year payback on the system. So this money spent is not entirely out the window.
I have also stooped so low as to eye up my neighbors tanks and considered aquiring 500′ of line to run to their tank in the event they are dead from BF and my propane has run out. I think I should be good for 12 months. but after that who knows.
Jumping Jack Flash – at 16:54
I agree on natural gas being undependable if power fails.
As I understand it, along the entire pipeline systems, there are pressure regulators that need electricity to run. If some of them fail, the whole system needs to be shut down for safety. Even with intermittent power failure, it will kill the system.
Instead of replacing natural gas, one option is to supplement it with propane, outdoor stove, cooking etc. For heating, it is possible to convert from natural gas to propane fireplace and have at least some heat. The natural gas furnace needs electricity to run the blowers so if power goes, it means immediately no heat.
Others have posted that if power goes, your natural gas range/oven may not work, and with no exhaust fans etc, it will be too dangerous to cook indoors. So think outdoor cooking in winter :-).
Hey MyKidsMom—
From someone who is overwhelmed by all the possible scenarios — my current take is that, if we have more than (I’m guessing here) 2 week’s worth of loss of electricity (over a large geographical area), my lack of heat and cooking ability will be the LEAST of my concerns. I live in a major metro area and we will have no water after that point. (Depends how long the water plant can operate on generator, I guess….)
I currently have about 1 month’s worth of survival water stored up. After that my back up water source would be the Anacostia River…. (-: Plus a really really good filter….
Anyhow, I was quite worried about losing heat and cooking power until the water thing really put it into perspective. So I decided not to look into wood stoves, fuel tanks, etc. until I felt I had a better handle on the water. I do have a small propane camp stove, though, but if there isn’t any gas flowing, you can be darn sure I won’t be wasting any drinking water boiling rice on it!
Passive cooling and heating systems are the way to go unless you reside north of Omaha (U.S.A.) or thereabouts. You won’t attract attention or entreaties if strangers or neighbors plainly see that you are without heat. I could see a lot of resentment building, if you are toasty and your neighbors are freezing to death with little food. You can give them food from afar, but you would have to risk exposure by bringing them in to your home. You bring them in, and you will have a toasty, little viral deathtrap.
When the natural gas peters out I will turn off the main cock coming into the house and proceed with my other plans. “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”. (Maybe THE mantra of the 21st century?)
Also, while touching on these issues I have rethought the idea of cooking during the first 6 weeks of a High CFR pandemic (and all of the smells and scents that would permeate your environs). I would rather waste what few frozen items I have than attract attention. It is canned food only and blinds drawn until the first stage of the winnowing process is completed. After that my camp stove and the dried beans and rice will come out.
Here is a link to an EXTENSIVE discussion I had on this topic earlier in the year:
Natural Gas.
Fergetaboutit !
Medical Maven: Also, while touching on these issues I have rethought the idea of cooking during the first 6 weeks of a High CFR pandemic (and all of the smells and scents that would permeate your environs). I would rather waste what few frozen items I have than attract attention. It is canned food only and blinds drawn until the first stage of the winnowing process is completed. After that my camp stove and the dried beans and rice will come out.
Cooking odors can be controlled without much effort, with a little pre-planning and some inexpensive equipment.
Of course you can always do what I’m planning on doing.
Burning my “waste” in a burn trench at the same time food is cooking. :-)
They’ll only smell ONE odor then…. LOL
Having a pre-done file we could simply upload to VistaPrint would be great.
Pre-formatted and approved wording.
Then each of us can have our own printed.
Have a lot of preps in noncooked food. I spoke to my water dept. and power company and they are not planning for a lack of fuel delivery. If there is a power failure, the water dept. thinks it can run a generator by getting fuel from the gas station. I wouldn’t expect a “gas company” would consider storing fuel either. Try asking yours.
Birdguano at 21:09: I think you have also hit upon an excellent way to stretch your preps. If that doesn’t just about kill your appetite, nothing will. : )
Medical Maven – at 21:34
Some one could try this:
or this:
instead of ‘wasting’ a natural resource :-)
ANON-YYZ at 21:48: With all of the beans fluwikians have stockpiled, if we calculated all of the potential, naturally fermented “biogas” generated through time we could probably light up Times Square on New Years Eve. : )
Medical Maven – at 23:16
Ah, now I know why WHO keeps sending the message everything’s under control. The continuous supply of B* from the WHO generates so much ‘biogas’ that Continuity of Natural Gas will never be a problem.
It sounds as if we lose electricity, we’ll also lose the natural gas supply line and distribution. The grand bummer is that unlike electricity, natural gas won’t be “switched” back on again ASAP.
With electricty after the thunderstorm passes, the wait begins for the light bulbs to flicker, signaling that power has returned.
With natural gas, each home will have to have the line into the house shut off by a worker. When a grid or area is “secure” someone will have to turn the gas back on and go into each home to ensure that all pilot lights are lit, house by house. . .
So ya think the gas company guys and gals are going to be making “house calls” ???
Seems like a worker (if there were any avaiable of course) could get in and out of a house without too much risk on infection, to light a pilot light. The risk would be nothing compared to, say, what a Health Care Worker would be exposed to, or the police, emergency workers, etc.
I’m not saying it’s what I’m expecting, certainly not in a worst case scenario. But already when someone comes to service my furnace, it’s not like we have a lot of contact.
I open the door, he comes in, goes to the basement, works a little, then I sign a paper with my credit card number on it and he leaves. I wouldn’t even have to BE there for him to light the pilot. He could enter the basement door, the whole family could even be upstairs, even on the second floor — well over 10 feet distance away. Gloves for the doorknob. I’m just saying — I think it could be done. (For the right fee of course!)
Average Concerned Mom – at 00:43
The only problem with that plan is electricity doesn’t fail just once. It keeps going up and down i.e. rotating blackouts from one district to another. Until it stabilizes, which means after a pandemic, the gas utility will give up trying to provide service. One small mistake somewhere could cause either CO death or worse, explosion.
It won’t work. Don’t count on it.
YYZ - we should be in bed now!!!! This will still be here tomorrow!! :-))
gharris – at 02:21
Thanks. Good night.
Didn’t someone say the gas company used its own gas to power their pumps or other equipment? Drat, was that a myth?
No kiddin’, jane. I’ve been without electric before in cold winters but while my electric-powered forced air furnace was out, my little gas thingy worked fine and kept us going. hmmmm…..
Wolf – at 22:38
Glad to hear that. How large was the area with power outage, and for how long?
Wolf— and what exactly was your lttle gas -thingy? Sounds like something to put on my ever growing list of things I want but cannot afford….
My understanding og the gas situation is — if you lose electricity on your street or in your part of town, the gas will keep flowing fine, the only issues are do your appliances need electricty to use the gas. So, I could cook on my stovetop but the electric light won’t work — have to use matches. That happens frequntly during power outages around here. Also, I think the thermostat of the oven wouldn’t work, so while you could bake, you coudn’t control the temperature except by opening and closing the oven
I hadn’t thought about the forced air part of my furnace being run by electricity, but of course it must be. I guess we have never lost power for long enough in the cold for me to have experienced that problem.
Anyhow, the big worry being, what happens if the gas company itself loses electricity — then they can’t even get gas to our houses to run the appliances?
ACM, the oven will not turn on, at least in the newer models. The gas will not flow if the electric heat bar (or whatever it is called) doesn’t work. Frustrating. I’ve baked biscuits on the cooktop, in a cast iron skillet ( covered) though.
In the Katrina crisis, the New Orleans police, Red Cross, rescue workers, etc. were caught off guard that their cell phones weren’t working. People have these myths about what will still work due to most blackouts being very local and not affecting phones, gas, water, etc. Hospitals and water companies have back up generators which will handle a few days of power, but they won’t be able to get more gasoline if the gas stations have no electricity.
If the whole power grid goes down, consider that your phone service, water and natural gas will stop shortly. For those who are planning to use a generator for their house; think about which appliances use natural gas. That could be, beside a furnace,- the water heater, the clothes dryer, the dish washer, the oven/stove. You may be using a generator only for lights and refridgeration. You might turn on your computer and find that your internet server is not working. You might turn on your TV. and find there is no broadcasting. Don’t depend that a generator will keep your life running normally. Consider how else you will heat and cook and get water.
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