Part I is here
Abraxas – at 12:15
On one of the flu blogs in the last year I read a post from a young man in Argentina. He was talking about the economic collapse in that country and how it now had a flourishing black market.
One of the things that he mentioned was gold. He recommended that you should start accumulating gold, not good gold coins, but bulk gold: rings, chains, etc.
He claimed that there were gold buyers everywhere, but that they paid a set price for gold: any gold coins or jewelry because a street trader has no way to verify the quality of the gold.
This sounds reasonable
Gold jewelery (not the 14kt stuff) has been used as currency for quite a while.
The Asian neighbors I have all have 22kt or 24kt jewelery just for the purpose of holding a store of value with a common denominator. The quality is determined by weight.
Weird stuff as jewelery because it’s so soft.
Japanese and Indians are now getting into it big time as well.
One guy I know used it to escape the Philippines during the war. Got his entire family out that way.
Quite common amongst asians.
I’ve taken their lead ;-)
Gold is never a bad idea. I’ll consider it after I am satisfied that I have enough bullets and beans. As for the National Guard, it has been a reserve force for the federal army since the 1950′s. Korea and Little Rock come to mind. It is one thing to use the military to control threats to the center. It is a whole different thing when it is used to attack the center. The military is not some faceless enemy. It is made up of our sons and daughters. If their conscience fails to hold them in check, a legion of JAG officers will. If the rule of law and conscience fails to keep the military from making war on us then remember that Romanian AK 47′s are cheerfully cheap and they are abundant.
BGuano
You would indeed be wise to grab as much gold as you can afford. I too read that post. He is right. However, I prefer easily identifiable and verifiable coins as opposed to jewelry for the simple reason that I am not a jewelry appraiser - and I don’t want to become one.
Regarding gold-If you want to establish a bit of verification of your gold’s authenticity and purity, buy from some of the nationally advertised companies and retain the invoice.
If you are an average joe, known by the buyer, that piece of paper should be sufficient to remove doubt in the buyer that he isn’t getting scammed. You could block-out the quantity and dollar amount so as to not reveal how much gold you might have.
What use is gold in a world where nothing can be manufactured, where all products are local and mainly agricultural and “trade” becomes exactly that? What could someone you want to trade with use it for? boat anchors? counterweights on your well bucket? fishing lures? You are assuming the world returns to something very much like what we have now and very quickly. If I had some gold coins in a post-busted civilization world, I’d beat them flat and polish them smooth for fishing lures. They are heavy enough to sink and stay bright and shiny even in the water. Can anyone else think of other uses for them?
Abraxas at 11:34 — What an interesting post! Thanks for putting it up there.
From the very beginning of the city-state thousands of years ago, Man very quickly augmented barter with coinage, (silver, gold, bronze, etc.).
Shortly after the worst has passed it will be useful. We are talking about within a matter of months.
And the world will still go round, and men of means will still want to give their ladies jewelry.
Gary
When you make your gold fishing lures, I’l buy’em. I’ll give you a nickle each.
Gary – at 14:41 gold- other uses for them
About the only use I have for gold these days is as electrodes in electrochemical cells. If you have a solar array for some DC power, you can make a lot of “good stuff” electrochemically if you know what you are doing- Chlorine from salt and water, and so on.
If it gets really bad, I don’t think I would accept gold in trade- Labor, rice, wood, even a bunch of dandelion roots over gold. Something like gold that in non-perishable and non-consumable will not be good an investment. For example if you equate wealth with gold per person, then if there is a 50% loss of life the gold will drop in price by half. Things like solar cells and small water pumps will be worth their weight in gold.
DennisC-You will still need coinage at some point (and without a Central Bank it can’t be ersatz), and you can not assume that the markets will be efficient. The markets for every commodity, including Gold, will be very local or regional at best. The World Market such as we have now will be gone for awhile.
And Gold has always had a very special allure for Man in just about every culture through every stage of history throughout the world.
And once rudimentary commerce begins to create wealthy men again there will be a demand for Gold and other fungible stores of value.
One addtion to my above post-Portability of wealth (and the ability to hide it) is critical in times of disruption. The portability of precious metals will be valued by all.
Surfer at 14:57 Hmmm a nickle? Do you suppose you could pound that into an arrowhead?
DennisC at 14:59 Now that is interesting! I happen to have a solar array. Chlorine could be useful, it purifies water. What else can be made? My guess is that gold will probably worth its weight and not much else (other than electrodes).
Medical Maven at 14:51 What does it mean to be a “man of means” in a busted civilization? Probably not a man with a lot of gold if no one else wants it. More likely a man with sufficient food, a healthy family and enough productive folks around him so they can share (trade) resources and keep one another going.
Gary
This is great. I’ll pound a nickle (or even an ounce of nickle) into an arrowhead, you pound an ounce of gold into a fishing lure. I’ll trade you even steven, one for one - as many as you can fashion. I’ll even take gold arrowheads if you get tired of making fishing lures. Fair enough? Uh, by the way, where are you going to get the gold?
Gary – at 15:44
I agree with your view- A healthy family, food, seeds, a warm dry place (or is it a cool dry place where you are- I remember my summer in Boron very well- the old rocket propulsion lab). If I had the Au, I would just trade it the first chance I had for the food, solar array, pumps, fuel and so on. I might keep enough for fish lures and electrodes and that is about it.
Even with just one gold electrode, you can get electrical power out of just about any other metal, just a “dissimilar” metal and salt water (or what ever you have. The gold would not be consumed and you should be able to make a battery with something like iron and gold (about 1.8 V or so, depending on what kind of iron/steel you have) That would be my first choice use.
But to be honest, I still don’t think civilization will be “busted” and we will be back to functioning at 1930′s depression levels very quickly. I hate to say it but most things around will keep going even with a loss of 25% of the people. And the ones out rioting and into mischief will be the ones that will be first to go, first to get “it”, the most likely to be poisoned and the last to be missed. (“sure looks like plant food to me”)
OH yes, chlorine is OK. You may want to look up ozonators. That is my chlorine backup. I have one that I got from Real Goods many years ago-it was part of a solar water treatment system I had some of my classes work on for a community med center in Hatti- I don’t think that they sell them now. The one I have is a 12V job. You can also check out fish tank places for them if you just have a small water holding tank.
I don’t know about the company but this should get you started:
The thing is that Ozone is easier to handle than Cl 2. The Cl 2 just chews up things and is very poisionious.
It’s funny how some are so quick to brush aside gold and silver yet historically if you look practically anywhere in the world with basic civilization and trade you could get along quite well with plenty of silver or gold.
Now I grant that if you are expecting a loss of 95% of humans on the planet and going back to a caveman like way of life gold and silve my not do you much good while you are out hunting down the bear for dinner. I on the other and don’t expect things to sink to that level. As long as there is basic trade, basic government or basic civilization silver and gold will do you well. Whether you are looking at the situation in Zimbabwe today where they they are better off using their $500 bills instead of toilet paper because one sheet of tp is worth more than the bill, Argentina in the 90′s, Mexico or Brazil in the 80′s, Germany in the 20′s where people loaded up their wheelbarrow with printed money to go buy one loaf of bread, the US in the depresion, Holland during it’s Tulip mania, or the Roman Empire you will have done fine economicly with silver or gold.
Granted two hours after the 9.0 earthquake or the day after a EMP blast takes out all electronics in the country it is not the time to try to survive using your silver or gold. This is where your other preps come into the picture. Still, at some point, whether is it days, weeks or months after the event your silver and gold will have value. For some reason civilization goes back 100 years, guess what - silver and gold were valuable then; civilization goes back to colonial levels, guess what - silver and gold were valuable then; civilization goes back to medieval levels, guess what - gold and silver were valuable, civilization goes back to ancient (Roman, Egyptian, Persian) levels, guess what - silver and gold were valuable. In short ANYWHERE there is basic trade, government or civilization silver and gold will be valuable. That is, unless you are planning on being the only person within 200 miles living in a cave hunting that bear down for dinner that I mentioned.
Yes, other preps are vital. You need food clothing and shelter after whatever the event is. Do NOT think you can survive with just silver or gold. The day after your silver or gold may not buy you a piece or bread, this is the time your need your food, water, lighting, etc. preps, but at some point at a minimum basic trade and barter will start again (even if it is only on a Medievel level) then your silver and gold will make you very glad you were smart enough to have it.
Repomadman, you and I are in total agreement. History and Human Nature do not lie.
But to give the other side its due-Gold and Silver would be my LAST prep, if I were a beginning prepper. You have to have the practical means and barter items to get to “the other side” in order for those precious metals to do you any good. But they will do you a great deal of good once commerce is reestablished.
Agreed Medical Maven
I do NOT recommend PM’s as a first step.
Only a final step to preserve wealth.
Repomadam
Bravo. You have the correct clue, and appearantly have a basic grasp of the purpose and durability of real “money.” Mine is probably not above the basic level (only a B.S. in Finance). Helicopter Ben has a different theory.
MM - I would not make real money the last prep. Before you buy your second freezer or the last of your ATV’s, I suggest trading some currency or stocks for real momey.
Lead and copper are probably more useful than either silver or gold from a purely utilitarian standpoint. Then there is iron. “Iron, cold iron, shall be the master of them all.” That is why I scrounge every piece of iron and steel I can find. But I also have the others as well.
I thought that bic lighters, tobacco, cigarett papers and booze would be handy article to have as money. A still, some brewers yeast and some sacks of suger would be handy ways of making money in a post pandemic world.
Beer is extremely easy to make, and one can buy cans of the malt syrup for about $8-$10 each that can store for years. A little yeast, sugar and water — there you go! Plus it’s the best tasting stuff you’ll ever have. The set-ups are everywhere now for Christmas giving… I know Harbor Freight carries them.
It’s a fun hobby come the flu or no… and could make an outstanding trade item.
BTW, if you do take a bear, make sure to cook it as thoroughly as you would pork; trichinosis affects both.
Just a reminder of terrible events of the past. Yellow Fever, before it was known that insects were vectors. Channel 13 tonite at 9. Bridges were dismantled, men with guns kept trains from stopping in towns, but the mosquitoes kept biting. So quarentine measures didn’t work.
Note that Dr. Woodson in the thread he started Stop Cutting Bait and Start Fishing I think he called it, and in his new book, which I have just started, recommends some precious metals. His suggestions are 1/10 oz gold bullion coins and silver bullion coins. A look online reveals many sources of same. While it is not on my prep list yet, still paying off more mundane items, a small amount of these and some cash would be more than prudent IMHO.
I have a list of items that are easy to find now, but will be difficult to impossible to produce absent industrialism. This list includes things like-
-Fish hooks, all sizes;
-Canning lids and jars;
-Nails and screws, hardware generally;
-PAdlocks and hasps;