I was thinking last night while reading the various threads here . . .wow! If a pandemic truly occurred (maybe late fall?) and there were power outages and fluwiki went down, where are you going to get the current news, support, information, what-to-do’s and level of communication we have all been the lucky recipients of here on fluwiki forums? Do you think that not being able to communicate with all the people here as a community resource would contribute to stress and your overall ability to adjust to this possible situation? Since it’s such an interesting and unusual community, won’t you also wonder how your fellow fluwikians are managing in possibly extreme circumstances? Anyone want to contribute their assessment of a possible scenario for being able to contact each other in this manner and get substantial updates and informative support for pandemic situations as they occur?
Granted, there is alot of expert information on the fluwiki main page area, but in a pandemic, there will be many things that may not have been envisioned. Do you think this fluwiki community would survive a pandemic or would it only be here until T”P”HTF?
Just curious.
I think so much depends on the state of the electrical grid. The MSM will be all drama and panic supportive, but there is the BBC and hopefully the web to stay in touch with. I imagine radio will be one of the last to fail if the grid falls(this is just a GUESS).
I am hopeful with all those here who have prepped with alternative energy sources, that at least a few someones will have shortwave radios up and running. I’d love to know now what “channels” I should tune into to be most likely to hear from fellow FluWikians.
I will not be able to transmit but like several of us who have prepped with the windup radios, hope to be able to hear news from the world with a long antenna hooked to the radio (mine is a Grundig).
Yes it will be very calming to know how others are faring. Comfort in numbers so to speak.
any hams (amature radio experts) out there who can hip us to which radio frequencies we can turn to for uncensored (air traffic, police, fire, ambulence, hospital, military?) information?
how might i tune into such legitimate, uncensored info?
what gear to get/modify?
Which frequencies?
Use your favorite search engine and look for “list shortwave radio stations.”
One good list is
http://www.eibi.de.vu/ Another is
http://support.radioshack.com/support_tutorials/communications/swave-6.htm
There are many more.
I forgot to mention: Not all of those broadcasts will be in English <grin>.
well my other hobby is just listening to the local police, fire, etc. The Internet and Yahoo groups are full of information about radio monitoring.
Here is the short answer, you just need a radio scanner and the correct list of frequencies to monitor.
Note: This is mostly local activity, to get shortwave, that is another kind of receiver.
For example I have a radio shack Pro-96 scanner and I listen to the local police, state police, fire, ems people. I can listen to the snow plow drivers if I am really interested in the road conditions in a winter storm. Here is a place to start. http://www.radioreference.com/
My uncle was a ham radio operator in WWII and continues to stay very active. He has been encouraging me to get my license (in my free time). If I can get him to buy into the entire fluwiki concept, he might be willing to serve as one of the conduits.
It would be really cool if people who have ham licenses “built” a Flu Wiki network to pass info. But I have a sneaking suspicion that people’s willingness to reveal themselves to this extent will be limited. I only know a smidge about ham radio networks and operators, but from what I gather, if you know someone’s call sign, you can pretty much identify their general (maybe specific) location. I may be misinformed on this though.
If there were a way to build such a ham radio network, I would be willing to help coordinate it. I do not have any experience on ham, but I know how to organize things! And I know these networks are a valuable asset in times of disaster (Katrina case in point). Is there interest?
Ranchgirl – at 20:49
There are several licensed amateurs (hams) here on fluwiki. I am one. Since there is a need for some to remain anonymous, most have not posted station call signs here. I do predict, though, that many of the existing traffic and existing welfare nets will be used for pandemic-support purposes ATSHTF. I’ll be active on 20 and 40 meter nets for national and international traffic, and will be active on 2 meters for local traffic. I have an ICOM 706 MkII that operates on 12 VDC, with a multi-band dipole on the ridgeline of my house.
Edna Mode – at 21:12
You are correct, if I provided my station call sign to you, you could check the FCC database and know my street address, city, state, and ZIP Code.
Also another ham here who won’t post a callsign in a public place.
Check out PACTOR III with published operating frequencies for setting up an HF bbs and email system, independant of the grid and internet. http://ecjones.org/pactor.html
Existing welfare nets such as SATERN will be used. Bet on it.
Since I’m in public safety, I’ll also monitor regional public safety frequencies, and probably shortwave if it’s running.
Start with a good shortwave set with single side band capability, then add a public safety scanner.
I also endorse www.radioreference.com as a resource.
You can’t rely on the phones always being there! We learned yet another valuable power lesson this last round (thanks to Ernesto half of CT had no power this weekend). We loose power a lot in our rural town, but often bigger towns nearby do not. Generally the outages are short, no longer than one day (except for a few). We’ve never lost the phone (have an “old fashioned” one that doesn’t need power.) This outage was very widespread and lasted 24 hours AND WE HAD NO PHONE!
I talked to a neighbor who works at the phone company - he used to be the guy out doing repairs, laying lines, etc. and now he supervises those guys. 20+ years experience. This is what I learned. Basically, phones also the equivalent of “transformers” like electrical transformers that serve localized areas. Often they run off a seperate power souce vs homes. However, if an outage is very widespread, like this one was, there is no power for the transformers either. They have batteries that last about 8 hours which then need to be recharged. I asked “so if we have an ice storm and loose power for a week, we’ll have no phone.” He said, no WE’LL have phone because I’ll have my guys out recharging our unit, but the rest of the town will be SOL.
Lesson - have lots of alternatives. Make sure you have a hand-crank radio with cell-phone charger. Lots of the “emergency” radios also have TV signals. We use cable for internet but are looking into good-old dial up or DSL as a back-up.
Communication is a big necessity and problem in any emergency situation. We have several “modes.” One thing I am really wanting to get is a CB like truckers use. The way I figure it, at least I could get some real on the ground information. During Rita last year we were in a “news blackout.” All the communication we had didn’t work because we were holed up in a remote (or at least we thought it was remote… but so did several hundred other evacuees) national forest. Reception was awful due to everything being down and the remoteness. A trucker told us to get a trucker CB for info, because truckers would be out and about more than likely. I suppose I haven’t done this because of limitations to this mode of communication and because other stuff just seems more important. And, we have several other modes of communication that have worked in the past… just not the hurricane last year.
I saw this posting and wanted to correct something. When the power grid or more exactly the phone power grid goes down, yes the cell phones will work for a day or two and three at the max because the cell towers work off battery backup. Dont count on your cell working too long if the land lines are dead as the towers will quickly power down. I guess if you had a satellite phone it would work but who are you going to call as their phone would be just as dead.
Can someone please explain the major differences and advantage comparisons between CB and Shortwave?
Can a person buy a “trucker CB” and just use it in the house? Sorry if this is a hilariously stupid question, but I’m ignorant. And if so, any recommendations? Do you need any special antennae? This seems like an Eccles question, kind of, but are there any knowlegeable folks out there?
CB’s are very low power and definitely require an outside antenna if you plan on talking to anyone past a couple of blocks.
CB antennas are HUGE. Measured in feet.
A lot of the “trucker cb’s” also have illegal higher power output than regular cb’s.
If you want to know what’s going on, get Sirius or XM satellite radio. You get most of the major news outlets, and some regional news as well. They also have an emergency channel.
Works coast to coast anywhere you have a view of the southern sky.
I’ve used XM in campgrounds at the bottom of a box canyon, and on boats off the California coast.
Also get shortwave, and for live uncensored local and regional comms, get a public safety scanner.
LEG – at 21:58
Can someone please explain the major differences and advantage comparisons between CB and Shortwave?
Sure.
Shortwave with single sideband capability allows you to monitor one-way communications.
Both broadcast stations that originate outside of the United States, as well as some amateur radio communications near the same frequencies.
CB or Citizens’ Band Radio is a short-range two-way communication system that was very popular in the 70′s.
Low frequency 27Mhz, low power 4 watts, am modulation.
Truckers still use it for passing info and to kill time chatting.
BirdGuano – at 00:17
“If you want to know what’s going on, get Sirius or XM satellite radio. You get most of the major news outlets, and some regional news as well. They also have an emergency channel.”
I was thinking about doing that, but heard that they use up a lot of battery power (assuming the electrical grid is eithe down or unstable).
Comments?
What would be a handful of websites for people wanting to research on this? Or keywords for wikipedia? I’m thinking about:
Could someone map out the requirements, the tools, etc? I’m thinking about something like this (a quick draft!):
Such a network might have “levels of capillarity” (for lack of a better term right now, please help!), perhaps: how to connect locally, how to connect across larger distances, etc.
It’s difficult to think big and think small at the same time. New territory!
Sorry about this “questions only” mode. I really don’t know what we could do to have a really great fantastic useful working communication network for us fluwikians when things start to get noisy and then, possibly, patchily silent.
Also, local communities need to think out their own communication strategy - openly. I mean, it’s not just about a thin and spread network of fluwikians - everyone will need to communicate across distances. The bare minimum is to use mirrors and some way to code messages (“we have food”, “we have water”, “let’s swap asynchronously”, “ok”).
If this were a science fiction novel, then we’d have an addendum with the “how to”. Sounds like a wikipage to me. :)
Ange D – at 19:16 - “Do you think that not being able to communicate with all the people here as a community resource would contribute to stress and your overall ability to adjust to this possible situation?”
For me, the time to prepare and adjust is now. It’s not that hard to imagine what may happen, if I screw up my courage and look at it with a dispassionate eye. I’m prepared to die- it’s been my meditation for 26 years. And we all have to go sometime…..
When the fluwiki went down some months ago, I discovered I had a real streak of paranoia! What if xxx government is blocking our vital news source?!?!? I really had to work out that one fast- it had already become clear to me that if a pandemic with a high CFR hit, there would be no electriicity thus no Internet. Also the issue of dependency came up. It gave me an enormous impetus to go on prepping and contacting loved ones about BF. Then my computer went on the blink for 2 1/2 weeks- it was as if I was locked out of the family home! I missed very much the regular posters, the news updates, the scientific exchanges, the prepping information- everything we really love about the wiki. Since then I have been downloading much useful info; also the more science-based posts for later re-reading.
“Since it’s such an interesting and unusual community, won’t you also wonder how your fellow fluwikians are managing in possibly extreme circumstances? “
I have been wondering about that from the beginning! These are already extreme circomstances. But I know in my heart of hearts that many here are very smart and capable people. It’s a rare and precious thing to see and participate in. I wish evryone the absolute best!
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/004943.html
Our Communication Stations are ultra-low-power PCs, running on Linux, requiring 12 watts of power. They can be run on solar, bicycle, wind, or other power; solar is the primary. This is important because most communities they serve are off the grid. They are very simple machines, with no moving parts, using off-the-shelf technology; they can also can be modified to add voice communication (VOIP). Each computer connects to a wifi access point which in turn connects to a real internet connection (satellite, local ISP, or cell phone provider with data capability). Each wifi access points has a high-gain directional antenna with a 12 to 20 km line-of-sight range, and the access points can daisy-chain up to 5 hops, so they can take their range out to 70–100 km to the internet connection. We work with local entrepreneurs to maintain the deployments we have.
I think the FluWiki community is better informed than the average person. Armed with a ham radio we may be able to inform people on a wide scale. While most of us are not doctors we do know about infection control and some vital information about fever and dehydration. We could read the latest manual of Dr Woodson over the air.
Lugon- right again. We need a wiki page on this important topic.
Bird Guano said “Start with a good shortwave set with single side band capability, then add a public safety scanner.”
It looks like Yaesu VX5R or Icom IC T90A might be good 5w triband handheld models but they don’t have SSB. The Yaesu is more difficult to use but has the WIRES internet repeater system feature which sounds useful. I am not certain able the WIRES vs SSB tradeoffs. These models can be modified to include frequencies which cover public safety (at least in my area according to Radio Reference).
I asked my local Radio Emergency Associated Communication Team (REACT) about modified ham radios as public safety scanners and they did not reply. Maybe that is because I am not a member or do not have my license yet. I am sure they want to maintain integrity of the emergency system by ensuring only trained users are on the air rather than the chaotic communication that citizen’s band radio sometimes carries.
Mars/Cap Modification Will Expanded Transmit Frequencies to: 50Mhz to 54Mhz 140Mhz to 174Mhz 420Mhz to 470Mhz
Freeband Modification Will Expanded Transmit Frequencies to: 48Mhz to 69.995Mhz 108Mhz to 221.995Mhz 300Mhz to 579.9875Mhz
I believe the radios with Lithium Ion batteries are prefereable. I was thinking that smaller units might use batteries and could be recharged using solar if necessary. I think I saw someone posted that 15w solar panels were available for $70 at www.northerntool.com. This is drifting towards another thread. Of course you don’t want to buy more quality than you need. I don’t know if non-handheld transceivers are more affordable.
A hand crank mobile radio would be interesting but probably not cheap.
Emergency Communications page already exists. Lots of room for improvement of course.
many of us are familar with the instant messaging softwares. Like AIM, IChat, MSN, ICQ and Yahooh Messenger.
Jabber is the independent open source alternativ. “Decentralized — the architecture of the Jabber network is similar to email; as a result, anyone can run their own Jabber server, enabling individuals and organizations to take control of their IM experience.”
Point is, if you stille have net in your house, then a problem with electricty on a another place, like the place where MSN server is located. Will cut the usage uf MSN. Jabber on the other hand uses the main strenght of the internet, the decentraliced net. My plan is to publish my AIM and MSN adress here on the wiki if TSHTF.. I also hope others will (make an anonym acount, preferbale with a similar nick as used here.) This will take a lot of the load fluwiki will meet as one of the best sourses of information. If MSN etc have trouble, I will use the Jabber. I am sure the “hackers” of the world will fix this huge challenge :-) Ham radios are fine as well, but most of us will use the net as long it can be used, and the net is very solid.
resilience means variety - as in nature
My prediction: Given a high CFR and CIR individual operators with ham radios will be the last redoubt of broadcasting and communication worldwide. It might even outlast the military networks worldwide.
Medical Maven – at 19:41
My prediction: Given a high CFR and CIR individual operators with ham radios will be the last redoubt of broadcasting and communication worldwide. It might even outlast the military networks worldwide.
Given that hams are mostly old-farts and not in the prime pandemic category, you are probably correct.
Of course there are some of us young whipper-snappers who are licensed.
The VX5 won’t do HF very well.
I restate my opinion on what you need for situational awareness:
I also plan:
I wonder if Jabber would work via PACTOR over HF radio for long distances ?
The internet is FAR from robust as one person here opined. That robustness ended when commercial entities took over and DARPA relinquished control.
Your choke points are DSLAM’s, fiber hubs, the DNS system, and data centers that house servers and are power hogs.
Grid POWER is the gating item, followed by diesel availability for generators.
Thanks for the WiKi comm link.
I will have to check that out.
are people having ethereal conversations around this? what do they think?
CurEvents Comm Shack has many discussions on this topic. See also eHam.net. They have forums and equipment reviews. See also http://www.dxzone.com
This subject is deep. May require an expert write up a summary here, or a Emergency Survival Communications book, or link to good existing resources.
No ethereal conversations from me. I only had a cb radio as a teenager and remember it was be chaotic trying to carry on conversations. I heard it is worse now in my area. BirdGuano works with fire and rescue for a living and has experience from that perspective.
I did a search on eham.net for the word pandemic and found this. It looks very interesting.
Strong Angel III Integrated Disaster Response Demonstration Anticipating Complexity | Exploring Responses | Cultivating Resilience
A Complex Contingency: A lethal and highly-contagious virus gradually begins to spread around the globe. Infection rates are high, deaths are frequent, and no vaccine is available. Cities all over the world fall under quarantine. Emergency services and medical centers are stressed and national government agencies, affected just as severely as the cities themselves, cannot provide assistance. And then the situation goes from bad to worse.
fredness, if it wasn’t so true, that would be a classic line for the humour thread .. It does belong in the quotable quotes thread though surely :-) good find!
Do you have a recommendation for a Public Safety scanner for a total novice? What are the minimum requirements to look for? I tried looking at various sites on my own and got lost immediately. Found lots apparently geared to monitoring driver’s communications in car racing.
Also, maybe this is stupid but I was wondering if the police encrypt? or otherwise protect their communications so scanners can’t pick them up. thanks.
Hey Fredness.
Good to see you here.
Public Safety Scanner recommendation ??
That’s VERY area-specific.
It fully depends on what they use in your area of operation.
Best place to check is www.radioreference.com
Come back and tell us what types of systems are listed in your area and I can make a recommendation.
Most police are NOT encrypted, but that is slowly changing as police move to digital radio systems and mobile computer terminals.
Thanks BG,
This is the info from www.radioreference.com We live in Phoenix. Is this the info you wanted?
System Name: Maricopa County Location: Maricopa County, AZ County: 3 counties System Type: Motorola Type II SmartZone System Voice: Analog and APCO-25 Common Air Interface Sysid: 521C CT: 128.57 Uniden DSP: 250D = 733 / 785D = 533 Last Updated: Added Site-15 Hits: 9857
This is an ASTRO Digital Smartzone system in use for public safety communications in Maricopa County AZ. The Scottsdale Police Department has recently joined the system in Analog mode.
BG, I found Middlesex county, MA ]] (and should probably print that out for future reference, since “Motorola Type IIi Hybrid, Motorola Type II SmartZone, LTR Standard” currently mean nada to me) but, I notice not all towns in the county are listed.
Bumping back up hoping for some help.
I added some basic info about FRS and GRMS. Those radios are cheap $25 per pair and work across 1 mile of level terrain (approx). There is a National SOS program that sounds very useful in case power or telephone service is unavailable. Great for neighborhood watch programs. Of course you need to stock up on batteries.
Sam, ASTRO is a Digital radio system put out by Motorola (Motorola Type II SmartZone). You’ll need a digital trunking scanner to listen and follow at least some of the converstaions. Your post says that the “System Voice” is “Analog and APCO-25 Common Air Interface” meaning that at least some of the transmissions are in analog and can be picked up using any trunking scanner, but others are digital (APCO-25). My guess is that anything you’d be interested in (Police/Fire/EMS) is likely digital.
I haven’t personally used or set up any digital scanners, but I do have an analog trunking scanner that was easy to set up. I had planned to buy a digital scanner when they got cheaper, but now I’m part of the Fire/EMS service in my county, so I don’t need one anymore. Uniden makes several models of digital scanners, both hand held and base units. Check on the features and prices and buy whatever seems to best meet your needs.
I called a local ham radio store. They said the police use analog frequencies. To get anyone else (fire dept, emergency medical services (EMS), etc you need a digital scanner which costs $500 (from them). If power is up it would be better to use public safety scanners which are repeated (rebroadcast) on the internet. There is probably a link to them on www.radioreference.com
Police Scanners for most US Cities on DX Zone
If you plan to use a public saftey scanner here are the frequencies for common Public Safety Radios from Radio Reference website
Thanks for the info. Like everything else re prepping, I’m learning as fast as I can.
I was hoping a scanner would enable us to keep informed re problems in the city if the power was down. Phoenix has a high crime rate at the best of times. Would hate to invest in a scanner though and then find I can’t hear police, fire etc.
sam in az – at 10:28
Thanks BG,
This is the info from www.radioreference.com We live in Phoenix. Is this the info you wanted?
System Name: Maricopa County Location: Maricopa County, AZ County: 3 counties System Type: Motorola Type II SmartZone System Voice: Analog and APCO-25 Common Air Interface Sysid: 521C CT: 128.57 Uniden DSP: 250D = 733 / 785D = 533 Last Updated: Added Site-15 Hits: 9857
This is an ASTRO Digital Smartzone system in use for public safety communications in Maricopa County AZ. The Scottsdale Police Department has recently joined the system in Analog mode.
You will need a digital capable scanner like a Radio Shack Pro2096 or the Uniden 996T
You’re into the $500 range for a scanner.
Shop around.
I have both and like the Pro2096 for it’s better audio quality. There is also a hand-held version the Pro96. Same price.
All digital capable scanners are computer programmable with the correct cable and a software program.
In fact there are many areas where the configuration is already posted by somebody in a Yahoo Group and you just download the file and then upload it to the scanner and start listening.
Let me know if I can help further.
Oh and I should add the Radio Shack digital scanners won’t do LTR trunking.
Only the unidens.
Every Spring the local church of Latter Day Saints (Mormon)in the St. Paul,MN area holds a Preparedness Fair. “Preparedness” is a tenet of their faith. Anyway, they had EVERY area of preparedness covered including ham radio seminars. Check to see if a similar event is held in your area. I understand the preparedness fairs are free, open to the public, and have minimal attendance outside local LDS members. By the way they had phenomenal demos on canning, square foot gardens, bread baking (top notch- this is what I attended for), how to store food for a year, water storage, and more.
Thanks! um, what’s LTR trunking?
I researched water for weeks before buying the Big Berkey with black filters as being the most suitable for our needs. I can see learning about digital scanners will be my next project. Thanks for all the info. I appreciate it. I may not be any smarter than I was when I started but I think I can ask more intelligent questions thanks to you!
You are right Northern Star. There was a fair just this past weekend! My timing, once again, is impeccable! Will try to see if there will be any others in this part of the state. Last year there was one in February so I will try to catch one somewhere. thanks.
bump
While I am also not willing to list my call, I think it might be well to set up some ‘just in case’ frequencies for flu emergencies. Right now at lower sunspot activity I have not heard much activity on 20 meters after dark; 40 is open then though. How about a couple alternate freqs, say on 20 and 40 meters? 7250 and 14250?
We could also select a CB channel, too. Say 33?
Any thoughts?
As regards portable receivers, I am most pleased with my Icom R-10. Eccles has chided me for suggesting this radio as it is far better than most people need, but it works very well, with coverage from 0.5 mhz up to 1300 Mhz all modes, runs on rechargeable AA batteries and is about the size of an old-fashioned transistor radio. I carry it with me on my travels and it’s really handy to have- scans police and weather, shortwave, CB, am, fm, TV broadcasts, ham, everything. Really neat receiver, and it really pulls in the signals with an external antenna, which I also take along.
I rather fancy Ten-Tec HF rigs; they have outstanding receivers and really good CW transmitters. SSB voice quality was always good, too.
Another thing to think about is local phone service. I bought a number of TA-1 and TA-312 military telephones a couple of years back, so that if things go sour I can have local hardwired commo in my neighborhood. They are not very expensive, and they are really rugged. Kind of like the grownup version of the Wire and tin can phones……..but handy.
LMWatBullRun – at 20:47 How about a couple alternate freqs, say on 20 and 40 meters? 7250 and 14250?
Those sound fine to me; they are open to General class licensees and are open to phone. Unless someone has a specific reason not to use those two, I vote for them. Do we need a #3 plan, on 15 meters … say, at 21400? I’ve often done well from here on 15 meters. Don’t want to make it too complicated, however; we want to make sure we can find each other.
Also, how about a schedule? We are certainly NOT going to be able to pick one time each day that will be “best” for all concerned as far as a main time for sharing info is concerned, especially when we consider our European and Australian friends. Maybe something like 06, 12, 18, & 24 UTC, with each op taking his/her pick of time to be on the air? Would that spread us too thin and not allow maximum sharing of info? 12 & 24 UTC would put more of us on together but would still allow some flexibility of scheduling (I am at UTC-7, so that would be 0500 & 1700 for me and either of those is OK with me).
I do wonder whether 15 would be reliable, but sure we can set up 21400 as an alternate. 12 and 24 UTC makes good sense to me. Suggest that we commence when the Wiki site is down for more than 48 hours or when the pandemic starts, whichever comes first.
Thoughts?
Guys and Gals
Didn’t see this thread until after I posted on the “Ham Sat Communications in a Pandemic” thread. Will you read my post on that thread and reply?
Asuggestion. Perhaps one thread dedicated to Ham Sat com, and another to CB com.
From Communication as found in the FluWiki Index.
National SOS Radio Network Our goal is simple: To help create an easy, accessible-by-all emergency communications system freely shared by the public & emergency resources. In an emergency situation: CITIZENS: Use all standard communication options first (telephone, cell phone, etc.). Should standard options fail, and personal safety is at risk, tune your FRS radios to Channel 1 and coordinate your efforts with neighbors & community coordinators (refer to our general Guidelines).