How many of us have tried to talk to people, friends who trust you, and tried to convince them of the necessity to pay attention to this pandemic issue, and failed?
I just had dinner with a couple who have been our friends for more than 20 years, the kind of friendship where we could appoint each other as guardians of our kids in our wills if we die. Wonderful intelligent people. Medics, both of them. They understand everything that I say, they have lived through SARS (as HCWs, remember), they have the money to prep, they are responsible parents, they make sure their kids got a good education, took their vitamins, teeth straightened out by expensive orthodontics, got told the facts of life, everything, the works.
But I’ve been telling them about this for at least 6 months, and they have done nothing.
Why is that?
This is by no means a unique experience. I can say most of my friends, mostly medical folks, are not doing anything about it. They don’t need me to explain ARDS, they see it in hospitals. They know the CFR for those in their kids’ age range. But they do nothing.
They would make sure everybody wear seatbelts, they buy insurance for everything you can think of. But they don’t buy preps as insurance against a pandemic.
I have thought long and hard about this, and I have a theory.
Imagine you are a man from Mars, and you’ve never seen or tasted a lemon before. What is it that I can say or how is it that I can describe the experience of sucking on a lemon for you to really get it? Some of you may have just experienced some actual sensations in your mouth when you read about ‘sucking on a lemon’. Even if you didn’t, you can imagine what the sensation would be like. In fact, you can make youself feel it. It is possible to turn on that special sensation, to ‘light it up’, so to speak.
But if you’ve never ever experienced anything like it, whatever I say, it is going to be very hard to get that sensation.
This ‘lighting up’, is the key. It is a biological, a neurological phenomenon. It is not anything abstract or ethereal.
If something is close enough to someone’s experience, even if they have never experienced it, like losing a loved one in a car crash, they are still able to imagine what it might be like for that to happen. But if it is something so extraordinary, something that is so far removed from their experience, then no matter how much they understand it rationally, it can get very hard for them to get ‘lit up’ about it. This ability to imagine, to try on, the unimaginable, does not come easily to everyone. Some of us have it, most people don’t.
This ability to get ‘lit up’, is also a biological, neurological event. The advent of functional MRI scans have in recent years revealed that our thoughts, aspirations, phobias, motivations, are not just abstract psychological phenomena. They are also measurable biological events!
What’s more, our biology is not static. It is affected by our history and our life experiences. For example, patients of depression may show specific changes on the scans. People who have normal scans, then experience traumatic life events that cause them to go into (secondary) depression, may then develop the same abnormal patterns that they didn’t have before, and these patterns may disappear over time as the person gets better. But if they experience repeated trauma, the depression can persist beyond the trauma and become permanent . When this happens, scans may correspondingly show persistent abnormality. (best reference: ‘Shadow syndromes’ by John Ratey) Our life experiences are literally imprinted in our neurology.
People get worried about losing someone in a car crash because they have experienced enough of life to know what it might be like to lose someone, and they’ve got the neurological ‘experience’ imprinted, even if it is second hand, sufficiently so that if they think about it, they will get ‘lit up’ sufficiently which kicks them into taking action, eg buying a safer car.
But if they’ve never ever had that imprinting, of the scenarios that we are talking about, it gets very hard for the lighting up to happen sufficiently for them to take action.
So what does it take for people to get off their butts? Some people might think if we make it horrible enough, they will take action.
My hypothesis is that we might need to make it just horrible enough (ie within the range of their life experiences so that their neurology can get lit up) for them to take action, but not so horrible that there is nothing in their life experiences to give that prior imprinting necessary for the lighting up to occur.
So if I were to say, it’s going to be dead bodies everywhere, they won’t know how to fill in the blanks, to create the kind of representation in their heads that lead to rational action. So they just blank out and do nothing.
But if I were to say, there’s going to be a pandemic. A lot of people might die. But scientists are telling us that if we all co-operate and keep away from people as much as possible, then there is a chance of reducing the deathrate and the impact. To do that, the government might decide to tell everyone to stay home for a while, at least until they get things under control, and shops might close. So you need to have enough food and essentials at home so you can stay in if necessary. It’s just the same as preparing for a hurricane, except maybe for a little bit longer.
Now you might say, why not then tell them to prep for 3 months? Why 2 weeks? Surely that’s not enough.
Yes, 2 weeks is not enough. But, again going back to the neurology, 2 weeks is just about the limit of what most people’s shopping experiences go. How many of us have found it really hard to figure out what 3 months’ of food mean?
Plus 2 weeks is do-able. If you give a large group of people a task that is too difficult, you will lose a large percentage right off the bat. Any book on goal setting will tell you that a goal that is too difficult to achieve is a goal that is too big. You need to break it down into smaller ones. That’s what most people need.
But, and here’s another key, the act of going out to shop for 2 weeks’ worth of food etc, will be a new neurological experience. It will start another process of imprinting. The mind starts getting used to the idea. Then getting people to do more preps becomes easier.
And getting them to ask the right questions also becomes easier. This is another important point, when someone is asking the question, they are lit up. They are on the right page. That is when your message is most likely to be effective.
The best time to sell someone an idea is when they are asking, NOT when you are pushing.
Anon_22 -
I think you are exactly right re neurological experiences.
1. Most adults today have never experienced this kind of catastrophic scenario.
2. With all of the advanced science and technology we now have, most people think nothing like this could possibly happen.
3. Even if someting terrible happens, most people believe that our government will somehow save us.
This kind of disaster is too enormous for people to “get their minds around.”
I think the only way that governments can handle this topic is to discuss it in increments with their citizens. First, they need to get people’s attention. In the US, perhaps the Surgeon General needs to have some prime time air time. He could start by explaining we always need to be prepared, and discuss why we should all have 2 - 3 weeks worth of food and water on hand. After airing that a few times, over a couple of weeks, then he could come back and state that in light of X, Y, and Z, we should really consider having 2 months worth of food and water on hand. And then, he could take it further…
How to do this is a study of psychology.
As Anon_22 said, my family and friends just can’t get this. They are intelligent people, but they have no life experience with this. There is a wall there that I can’t break through. Nobody in the government is getting people’s attention and giving them a serious warning. The Surgeon General needs to go on TV and look them in the eye (make a connection, and get their attention), and tell them, “This is a concern, and this is what you need to do now.”
I got “lit up” regarding pandemic flu in early April. I still don’t really know why. I had paid no attention to it before and had never prepared for any kind of emergency/crisis. Something intuitive it seems.
“The best time to sell someone an idea is when they are asking, NOT when you are pushing.”
That’s why I’m not talking to family/friends - yet. I know when I’m wasting my time. When the situation becomes more critical, I hope they’ll be asking:)
I totally agree anon - I tried to get familes, friends, etc. to prep, but only a few were remotely interested in what I had to say and the vast majority ignored the packet of information I gave them - maybe it was too much information (but it really was pretty USA TOday-like), maybe they’ve decided the risk isn’t there, there will be a miracle vaccine, can’t affod it, too many things on their plate, when things “settle down” with kids, work, it’s a media/gov’t conspiracy, etc. Heard it all.
Funny that you say “when they are asking.” When I was photo copying all the stuff for aforementioned friends and relatives, the guy at the copy center appologized profusely about reading my stuff but had lots on questions. We talked a long time about it, he made more copies for his loved ones, and is now an avid prepper. Strike when the poker is hot, otherwise let it simmer in the fire longer.
Even when things are well within the range of someone’s experience you are still going to run into the “it can’t happen to me or mine” syndrome. People die in droves from it around the world every day.
You cannot force someone else to take any subject or act seriously. Our court system is full of people that ride the revolving door of “justice” who, despite intervention(s) and education(s)that you would think that would stop them at some point from their dangerous behaviors.
Eventually for some it will be too late.
I tell people what I can. I try and model an appropriate lifestyle with common sense life choices. But at a certain point I have to allow the other party to assume the responsibility for their action/inaction.
I can’t take the credit for another’s person’s preparation. I can’t take the blame for them if they don’t.
Most people have been exposed to the same initial stimuli for preparation that all of us on the wiki have. Why some of us “light up” and some don’t I haven’t a clue. Why some Floridians prepare for a hurricane and some don’t is just as example … afterall of us have seen and/or experienced the ravages of weather-related catastrophes. And TPTB are in our faces quite regularly about the need to prep.
Socio-economic reasons do not explain it all. And some people will never ask.
This might reach some folks, but there will still be a large number that won’t ever “light up” over the need to prepare … whether its for pandemic or some other potential castrophic event in their lives.
Okbirdwatcher, I think you are follow your intuition. I really believe there are many of us who are getting involved because there is something deep inside telling them to do so. I have been following this for a long time, but I can’t honestly say why that is true. I have never bothered with other disaster stuff and this is out of the ordinary for me. I have a full life and have projects up the ying yang to do and paintings in me that are whailing to get out… But, I am a reader, I read newspapers cover to cover and I remember stuff, never the stuff that I am suppose to remember, alas, but SARS and BF caught my attention in a big way. I am a humanitarian and when people are facing global destruction, that gets my attention.
I would like nothing more than to go back to my little world where I teach and interact with children, paint pictures and create a utopia for myself and my family but I believe the shit is going to hit the fan and we have to be awake and functioning with our brains clear and our logic cleaned of the cobwebs of inactivity. All of us have to be like Eccles, we have to use our brains and figure out how to do things we never thought we could do or have never done before.
Anon_22 - Thank You! That is a wonderful description and analogy of what is happening to our freinds, family and collegues. That has helped me understand wyh I can’t reach my dear friend, whom I love with all my heart, and convinve her to prepare and save her kids and husband. These are people that should be here to rebuild if we have to do that, good people that give back to society, that have instilled that concept of community in their children…yet they do not prepare. My friend is focused on Mad Cow and her 16 year old son has posters on his wall of HAMBURGERS because they are not allowed to eat them… Mad Cow will not wipe out her family, BF could with a little more time.
We live in too stable of an environment for people to imagine anything else.
If you could bring down the grid for one week, right now, it could help people to realize that other things could happen too. Short of that, people can’t imagine being without power and a pandemic is even harder to imagine.
Maybe I could cut the power to my house for one week to incourage my wife to help me prep more :)
to prep for this pandemic I believe most people need info from the following:
an authority:
People need to hear from someone they consider to be an authority — a medical professional, a newspaper article in a paper they respect, their employer, or even a letter written to them from their utility company, their kids school or college, etc — something other than a friend telling them “a pandemic could be quite serious and you may very much wish to stay at home for a while.”
a story:
this is the “lit up” part anon 22 talked about. People need to have some idea of what it is like to live through an epidemic — if they have read stories about 1918 everything will resonate much more, but even stories, movies, or personal testimony of what it was like to live through summers of polio epidemics will be a big help.
a sense of urgency
People need some idea that this could happen sooner rather than later, to give them a bit of fear, even to put it all together.
D*(@! I have no more time; there’s so much I want to add but never have a second to myself these days.
To add to the above “sense of urgency”:
“chatter” from others in the area adds to the sense of urgency. If it is somehting people around you are talking about and aware of, it seems more pertinent to your life. If no one is talking about a pandemic, it seems less urgent. When it becomes water cooler conversation, it will seem more urgent.
On the subject of ‘stories’, the Katrina story is a good one to use to light them up about not waiting for the cavalry to arrive, and the importance of thinking the unthinkable.
Make sure you tell folks how the vast majority of people in New Orleans survived, as will the vast majority of people in a pandemic. A lot of people just say, “Oh well, we’ll all just die.” You need to get graphic about them NOT dying but having to live through something like Katrina.
I use another story, the story of SARS. Most people would have seen at least some TV footage of cities with everybody wearing masks, etc. I use Hong Kong and not anywhere else because it is well recognized as an advanced economy and also because there was community spread causing widespread panic.
I say to people that SARS killed 300 people in Hong Kong and brought the whole place to a standstill. And then I use a very mild scenario of 25% clinical attack rate and 2% CFR, which for a population of 7M will translate to 35,000 dead, in the same time frame of the SARS outbreak. This 100-folk increase in impact is something that helps to focus people’s attention.
And then of course I say well the current CFR is 55%.
Doesn’t always work, but you can watch their faces change.
I agree to all of the above. Very well thought out and written Anon_22
I have gotten a few people to prepare, but not the ones I love the most. My sister’s husband is in Iraq right now, she is concerned more about terrorists, but she is still not preparing.
I never prepared for any disasters before either, but for some reason March was my wake up call.
I’m gonna die eventually—before, during or after a pandemic but I sure as heck will go out fighting to live.
How is it that I picked up on the threat and my family members who have had similar life experiances haven’t and refuse to even have the topic brought up? That confuses me.
KimT - at 19:42
“How is it that I picked up on the threat and my family members who have had similar life experiances haven’t and refuse to even have the topic brought up? That confuses me.”
I have wondered the same thing.
I have never lived through a disastrous senario like a pandemic, and neither have my family or friends. I do understand medicine better than my friends, but I have also tried to explain this to them.
I think this difference in some “getting it” and prepping, and others not (even with the same life experiences) may be the possibilty of vision (again maybe different neurologial pathways present). Maybe it relates to creativity. I just don’t know. This is just a notion I have.
So many people are so concrete. They just say, “The virus is in the birds, and in another part of the world.” They indicate that our government does not seem worried, so why should they. They don’t allow themselves to imagine. They just go with the simple facts of what they are told (by TPTB)is happening today.
So, for those with no vision, perhaps the following is all their minds allow:
1. I am told that the virus is in the birds in other countries far away.
2. My government does not seem alarmed.
Therefore,
3. I will do nothing now because to do otherwise it will cost time and money to prepare, and that apparently is not necessary.
I also think women are better at this, mothers even more so.
I’m not being sexist, but how many times have women complain about husbands who don’t do anything in the house unless specifically told to. Reason? They don’t realise things need doing.
I think women especially mothers are constantly scanning the horizon for things that might happen or consequences of certain things not happening, eg dishes not washed, trash not taken out, coins left around for toddlers to swallow, schoolbags not packed the night before….
I have a number of elderly relatives that have lived through some major world events such as the Depression, WWII, etc., but when it comes down to their personal life experiences - no major natural disasters, no serious illnesses, no premature or violent family deaths, never had to think for themselves during an emergency, etc. They’ve always been surrounded by large support groups of friends and family, always had enough money and lived in nice houses (since WWII, anyway),lived the good life and never realized it.
These guys are pretty helpless when it comes to any kind of personal adversity, because they haven’t had any. They really just can’t imagine it could happen to *them* - up til now it’s always been “the other guy.”
On the other hand, I’ve *been* the other guy. That’s probably why I’m here. If you went through the list of FluWickians, how many are people who have actually lived through some traumatic event, and want to put themselves in the best possible position to avoid another one?
maybe what we have is like a seventh sense, it’s like having a strong survival gene. it’s a little voice inside telling us to get busy . I think it’s like when we know a winter is coming and we need to get food and more fuel to heat and cook by or get warmer clothes to wear. some people don’t think like that. something needs to trigger most people anymore and sometimes that doesn’t work either. Maybe it’s been bred out of people I don’t know. I do know lots of people like me that sense something is on the horizon but don’t know exactly what , but just get ready for it.
What you said, lady biker, reminds me of the last scene in the first Terminator movie. Sarah Connor (Linda Hamilton) is standing looking across a vast dessert as she fills her car with gas. Dark clouds threaten on the far away horizon; a new storm is gathering.
Sometimes I feel like that woman and think of her as the pandemic clouds draw closer.
I call it “Nesting”
lady biker, boy do I agree with you. Those of us that pay attention to our hunches just “feel something” isn’t right. When you say that you “sense something is on the horizon,” that is exactly how I feel.
Maybe those of us that have somebody to protect besides ourselves, or already know what it’s like to be in danger or take a big loss, just listen more carefully to the “survival genes” we have.
LA Escapee , it’s like something that I read in a book once, that said, SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES. Like something is looking for me, can it see me yet? The big ugly is out there is some way, shape, or form. just gotta be ready for what ever. I honestly do believe it’s a seventh sense, just stronger in some people than in others.
Science Teacher – at 20:33
That scene is the one of the most haunting ones I have ever watched—and that feeling is with me all of the time now (not that I look anything like Linda Hamilton—I wish!!:-)
The creeping sense of menace I feel now is far more threatening than the fears of nuclear war for me, because, in the end, all politics are negotiable—even if it ends up with Americans speaking Russian or wearing robes and burkhas. This disease is like a shark; emotionless, implacable, unmoveable, nonnegotiable.
sorry, that was me . . .
To me, there are 2 kinds of ‘preppers’…those that prepare for an event, and those that live a prep lifestyle.
I’ve seen over and over and over again a great majority of people who are vulnerable to LIFE, with all it’s ups and downs. While some are better able to ride the waves of natural ups and downs, too many get caught with their pants down. Time magazine last week had an article about why people don’t prepare…it was a very thought provoking article. In it, it said in part:
“In fact, 91% of Americans live in places at a moderate-to-high risk of earthquakes, volcanoes, tornadoes, wildfires, hurricanes, flooding, high-wind damage or terrorism, according to an estimate calculated for TIME by the Hazards and Vulnerability Research Institute at the University of South Carolina.”
It went on to give their reason why the majority don’t prepare ahead of time:
“There are four stages of denial,” says Eric Holdeman, director of emergency management for Seattle’s King County, which faces a significant earthquake threat. “One is, it won’t happen. Two is, if it does happen, it won’t happen to me. Three: if it does happen to me, it won’t be that bad. And four: if it happens to me and it’s bad, there’s nothing I can do to stop it anyway.”
That’s a pretty sad state of affairs if you ask me. I have no answers as to how to convince others that scoff at me. I live a prep lifestyle and have for many years…just as others can’t comprehend why I DO, I can’t comprehend why they DON’T. I know some who have had similar, albeit different experiences in dealing with tragedies or potential threats in life and each person responds uniquely.
I don’t know much about those that prep in response to a potential event, so I can’t really comment on that. I’m not LDS or any other generally known sect that teaches a prep lifestyle, it’s just a burden I’ve had for a long, long time and a choice that I’ve made that has served me well. I can teach others that wanna know, what I know…I can warn others that could care less and I can stand alone when others view me as if I wear a tin foil hat, it matters not to me.
Anyway, enough musings…here’s the Time article in its entirety if you care to read it:
Shad.
I think part of the problem is that the people in charge who are supposed to be warning people have not ‘lit-up’ themselves. Even though its their job, how can they be enthusiatic about something they themselves cant get their own minds around?
I first heard about H5N1 several years ago on 60 minutes (tv news mag. show). In my mind I still can see the chickens and pigs in their pens in some Asian country, and adjacent trees with birds in them. They talked of a virus in the birds, and a possible pandemic. What they said frightened me. Then I forgot all about it till last fall, and something was on the news, and I remembered. I also thought of Katrina and the tsunami, and realized major bad things can indeed happen. Without knowing anything more, I went to the store and bought some extra food because it just seemed prudent. I had yet to hear the word ‘prep’.
The very next day, out of the blue, a doc friend of mine from a large family of doctors called and warned me about a possible pandemic, and told me to prepare for 3 months. Then I came on the computer, found fluwiki, eventually Curevents, and was off to the races.
Bump
I agree that when people believe the news about a panedemic comes from an authority figure, as opposed to an ordinary person such as ourselves, they are more likely to listen. That’s why I log on to Flu Wiki every day now and go first to the news threads. When I see a story from a doctor or a researcher or an institution warning about the possibility of a pandemic and the need to prepare for it, I copy it and e-mail it to my husband and my cousin who both work in health institutions and to anyone else I think will listen. I do believe I’ve had some impact, because my husband is more involved with prepping, and he has forwarded some of the articles to administrators in his institution. He’s also encouraged me to attend any local public meetings about BF and to forward the e-mails to our national congressman. My cousin has also been responsive by prepping more. I think I just need more e-mail addresses.
From Mosaic at 00:17
“The very next day, out of the blue, a doc friend of mine from a large family of doctors called and warned me about a possible pandemic, and told me to prepare for 3 months. Then I came on the computer, found fluwiki, eventually Curevents, and was off to the races.”
In my opinion, this is where the news needs to come from to be believed by the majority of people. MDs and others in the medical community, but most of all, family doctors and internists.
I have found from talking to people that those who seem to be the least concerned fall into certain Catagories.
1) They are affluent enough and their parents were affluent enough that they have never wanted for anything. They could always get whatever they needed when the needed it.
2) They have not lost, or come close to losing, a friend or loved one from a common curable illness, like influenza.
3) They do not believe that the stores would ever be in a situation where they might not be able to get deliveries for weeks or perhaps months. They believe they would always be able to go out and purchase what they need because they have not ever dealt with a pandemic, hurricane, eartquake or other disaster and seen empty store shelves for themselves.
Many of them are knowledgeable people, with common sense and intellgence. They simply cannot relate to the possiblities a pandemic can cause because they do not have the life experience.
ACM at 13:28
Yes, I agree with you that people will potentially prep more if the warning comes from an MD. However, just yesterday I was once again trying to get a friend to prep. And she said that her friend, an ER DOCTOR IN TAMPA, has told her repeatedly that the bird flu is overhyped, but if it does happen he will call in an order of Tamiflu for her and her kids. She said he has assured her that Tamiflu will work. She flat out said to me she believes him over me, because, after all, he is the doctor.
A fourth group would be the one’s who don’t believe anything can be done..ie find it too overwhelming- I’m finding that in myself- but I choose to try and find logical solution’s. (I just wonder: but that’s good …I’m just a bit scared I s’pose and can’t think straight…but I s’pose we’re all the same.) Or does that describe all of them
Being a doctor only gives a degree to treat people … it doesn’t always guarantee farsightedness. Just as many doctors have a hard time imagining trying to do their job without everything they are used to having, much less how the remainder of society would function.
The fact that he said he would just “call in” an order of Tamiflu makes me truly suspect. I’m in Tampa, and just “calling in” a pharmaceutical order is frowned upon because of all of the abuse. Most pharmacies won’t even fill these orders before a person shows up with a script as well. It is also frowned upon by most insurance companies, though I’m sure it does happen.
And doctors aren’t always aware of medicinal shortages. Several times in my life I’ve had to wait while the pharmacy calls the doctor’s office to apprise them that a medicine they prescribed is on backorder, out-of-stock, what have you. If the doctor will script an alternative medicine then fine … however, a lot of times they can’t or won’t so I either have to take the script to go to another pharmacy hoping they have it or wait for the medication to come in.
In the event of a pandemic which requires blanketing of populations with tamiflu, I suspect that a doctor’s scrip will not be worth a hill of beans. You will either receive your dosage from TPTB because you are in said area to be blanketed … or you are SOL. <shrug> There will be shortages and everything else.
Whoever the doctor is that she is speaking to either doesn’t know his hat from a hole in the ground, being irresponsible, or just blowing her off with platitudes … all of which occurs on a daily basis in this medically busy metropolitan area.
Sounds to me like magical thinking and pure laziness. Magical thinking promises easy answers, easy victories, easy achievement of our goals with little effort and work. But this is, and always was, a childish dream. Through cooperating with each other and studying the world around us, we can learn to better control our circumstances and improve our lives, but such improvement will always take labor and work.
The lure of easy answers is an illusion; there are answers, but they are difficult to find and always were. Yet that does not make them worth any less. On the contrary, it makes them even more precious, and should increase our appreciation for what progress we have brought about and our resolve to make further progress in the future.
Lots of folks have a hard time putting away “childish things” as they mature and take on adult responsibilites. Preparing oneself and one’s family for whatever evil this way comes takes hard work, determination and maturity to recognize that this is what adults do.
I’ve got a relative that maintains that an individual who has confidence in their ability (and assumes they are more capable than the average person) can lead a positive life and deal with emergencies when they arise. To do less, I’m told is to live a negative life. In other words, you don’t have enough positive thoughts and confidence in yourself to cope with whatever is thrown at you. This can me financial, medical, physical or emotional. This person assumes I’m a negative person, I believe I’m a realist and that to base my future on positive thinking is not rational. So you can guess why I haven’t tried to persuade this person to prep. The more I make it an issue, the more negative I am and therefore I must not have much confidence in my abilities. Around and around the circle we go.
Kathy in FL at 16:06 Yes, this particular doctor is very irresponsible. BF aside, I know he has called in antibiotics for her when she has had a sinus infection (or thought she has had one). It is people like this who are causing antibiotics to lose their effectiveness. Good thing I have no idea what his name is….I just might report him. :)
Prepping Gal at 18:33
I too have a relative that says I am “inviting BF into my life” because worry creates negative thoughts and negativity causes bad things to happen in one’s life. I have been told not to “create” bird flu in my world and therefore it won’t happen. And I too have stopped trying to get this person to prep. As you can see from my last posts, I am feeling frustrated. In the last few days I have tried my prepping appeal on a few people and it has failed.
Funny thing is, I don’t feel negative. I feel empowered through my prepping and I feel an inner strength. I know I am a survivor and I will always try to survive no matter what. If I lose, well I went down fighting and realistic, just like you.
some of the answer may lay here, right on the forum. After spending time here for almost a year. I realise that newcomers have valubale information on what it took to get them interested.. Did someone new here hear it from friends, coleagues etc, then after some kind of proces started to investigate it or what? Please post if you feel like charing a self analysis on your learning.
After all we are not talking about some kind of “salvation” here, only a kind of knowledge process, that leads to a analysis about doing som preps and planning in case of a situation that may happen that is to big for the individual, and to massive for the systems to take care of as normal.. A crisis.. like any other one, only that this one is global and has happend before, regulary…
Udar brings up a good point. At least for me, it did take some time for me to become worried enough about AF to start really investigating it, and then, taking steps to prepare. There wasn’t an “ah-ha” moment, no one trigger factor. Getting people to accept the reality can take time. Push gently, not agressively. Know when to back off. Be ready for questions when they come up.
Also, gage your audience: does your target listen more to the media (reliable or not) or listen more to individuals they trust. Adjust your message accordingly. I tmay mean you have to approcah everyone on a completely indivudual basis vs a blanket approach, but better to be effective and convince 10 people than waste your time with 100 and convince one.
Lurker Mom at 15:51
I think people in the medical profession can have a profound effect in either direction — if they stress pandemic preparation with their patients their advice will carry a LOT of clout, as people perceive it to be primarily a health care issue (at the moment). And if they dismiss the threat, their patients and friends will also not pay attention.
well. this terory about peopple caring about social and political issues have been mentioned earlyer by historians in conection with personal loss. The theory goes something like this this.- If people have expeirenced a personal loss of some kind, they are more willing to take action to help, risk and fight for some issues. It was seen in Germany during nazi period, and in many soviet countries. Problem was that the number was stabil., and low….. Only when numbers got over a certain number, like a critical mass, the issue become “comon”..
This may answer all radicals questions to them self when young and working to save the whale, the ozone layer, the clima balance etc. “why dont people react?!” Next question here would then be. Is everyone here a “ voulantair, a good samaritan, an activist, a support in comunity etc etc in this forum? If so, we will know who to convince first.. But then again, its only “quasi science…”
oh that redflukiller, gives inspiration on a friday night.. :D
…just another thought.. If someone near tells you about something you see it in a certain perspective. If someone from “abroad” tells you, -you may see it with new eyes.. This was tried out on a war started not to long ago.. And may be helpfull. If some of the US citicens, organsations etc would please give the europeans a hint.. I would be very thankfull. No one here in the population cares about it anymore since the “storm” died out when avian flu landed, and “nothing” happend… :-/
good night from scandinavia :D
I think we have been “tagged” spiritually. The feeling of something being “on the horizon” is nearly universal to those on the wiki. Some of us have come to recongnize more cognitive events that keyed us into searching out a way to survive the coming storm, but almost every single person here feels like someone unseen has, at some point, said “tag…you’re it”. That’s why members of the same family who have been raised exactly the same with the same experiences and education can take this all EXTREMELY differently. They weren’t “tagged” and may never be. Those you reach have already been “tagged” and your information puts a face on the event that they already “knew” was on the horizon. That’s my take.
NEMO – at 21:27 that is an interesting way to say what seems to be happening with some of us here. Just like when I was in the fire service, and we would stand around, knowing a big one was coming, we would begin to become mentally prepared,,and time after time, a large diaster would arrive and we would spring into action. I feel the same way at this time, feeling something is coming that will strike all of us really hard. At this time I cant really say it will be bird flu pandemic, although that is right at the top of the list for me, but also could be a devasting world event, such as a large quake in the western part of the USA etc,,,,but whatever it is, feeling the urge to continue prepping and spreading the word for others to prep as much as possible. Does that make sense? I wonder if others on the Wikie feel that same way?
How very interesting, NEMO. Always watching, always waiting.
You pegged it Gary! I don’t know for sure it will be bird flu, but preps are pretty universal, so I am prepared for the biggie as much as any individual can reasonably get.
I sure wish a bunch of us could get together in person, I bet the electricity would be phenomanal to experience!
I wonder if our wiki’s founders feel ‘tagged’? From the movie, Field of Dreams: “Build it and they will come’. and so we did.
yes Science Teacher and I would feel a whole lot better if more would come alonge with us. You know it’s funny cause I have had this feeling all my life at different times and usually it is correct, I’m just hopeing that it’s a false alarm causes it scares me how strong that feeling is this time. I just pray a lot and hope that I can help someone survive what ever happens.
Still, one must guard against any tendency towards a flu-religiosity; it becomes too easy to become an echo chamber. I’ve been quite put off by that. I enjoy hearing ALL voices.
I wonder how much television and movies have contributed to the average person’s inability to perceive true risk? There are people who believe soap operas are real, but there are millions more who watch disaster and horror movies, and enjoy them, in part, because they understand that they are NOT real. Has that impeded their ability to understand that real horrors happen to real people?
A lot of these folks also cant relate to frightening world news events either because of the lack of depth, and sound bite reporting. They never get emotionally connected. Sept 11th was a little different because of the repetitive nature of the reporting and the “shocking factor” that it happened in a city that just about everyone in the US has some familiarity with at some level.
How many times have you heard the news anchors warn people that upcoming scenes might be disturbing, almost suggesting that they go make a sandwich for the next five minutes….?
LadyBiker @ 2116: “The big ugly”
For me, it’s been “Something Bad”, complete with capital letters.
Science Teacher @ 2033: I’ve been reminded of that scene repeatedly in the past few months.
GaryNearDeathValley @ 2132: You said what I feel exactly!
I’ve experienced earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, and even a volcano erupting but I have never felt the need to stock up or prepare before. Now, though, that need is imperative. I don’t know if there will be a pandemic or something else. All I know is Something Bad is coming and I want to be ready when it does.
I feel like I’ve been getting ready for something for a number of years. I can’t tell you what prompted me but I told my DH it is something I just have to do. Prepping is something I’ve done now without any specific event prompting me. I’ve had a special sense of intuition all my life that others tend to ignore. Through my experiences I can tell you that ignor your intuition and you will deal with the consequences. It’s like I’ve got a guardian angel on my shoulder telling me “get ready” or “rethink this situation” or “don’t let pride prevent you from doing what’s right”. I can’t really explain it. I’ve never been in a life threatening disaster. I’m not a worrier and don’t consider myself uptight. I’m a calm, down to earth, non-flashy, practical person who lives a quiet life in peace and harmony.
“There are four stages of denial,” says Eric Holdeman, director of emergency management for Seattle’s King County, which faces a significant earthquake threat.
“One is, it won’t happen. Two is, if it does happen, it won’t happen to me. Three: if it does happen to me, it won’t be that bad. And four: if it happens to me and it’s bad, there’s nothing I can do to stop it anyway”
I hear way too much of this- oi! (And worse; some are drawing town salaries in “Health” or leadership/public trust, while they say it.)
Can we at least work on a good comeback to that last one?
Of course you can do things ahead of time to mitigate your experiences during and after a natural disaster! (I don’t see it as odd to consider a deadly pandemic to be a long-duration Natural Disaster.)
I think we all who visit and stay here are all of a kindred spirit… I read these posts and I just keep saying - yes, right, exactly!!! I am not nuts.
When you buy a car, you buy car insurance “just in case” you have an accident. Nobody REALLY expects to get in an accident, but the insurance is for “just in case.”
When you buy a house, the same goes for fire insurance. Nobody REALLY expects their house to burn down, but the insurance is for “just in case.”
In both of these instances, the possibility of a car accident or house fire would be small, but the consequences would be devastating. That is why we buy insurance.
The insurance policy for a pandemic is prepping. Nobody knows for sure when a pandemic might occur or how bad it might be, but the way to try to survive the consequences is prepping. That is just simply an insurance policy for a pandemic. I am not so sure that the possibility of a pandemic is small, but I believe that the consequences could be catastrophic.
What is an added bonus is that prepping for a pandemic is basically the same prepping as for an earthquake or terrorist attack.
I quess the reason people don’t prep is that they have seen and heard of many car accidents and house fires and understand well how insurance for those events is necessary, yet people have no life experience with a pandemic or the consequences of a pandemic, and therefore the necessity of the prepping insurance. They have trouble imagining, so they stay with the concrete, what they know.
When I talked to my neighbor, I used the analogy of fire insurance for a house fire to be the same as prepping insurance for a pandemic. He liked that comparison and has used it on his friends.
Prepping is just simply an insurance policy. I guess people have to determine:
1. If a pandemic is even REMOTELY possible.
2. If the consequences of a pandemic are severe enough that therefore an insurance policy is warranted.
JV @ 12:14: And, as has been mentioned oftentimes before, what exactly is the DOWNSIDE to prepping - for any emergency? Fact is, I’ve got a coupla hard months coming up financially. I’ll be, uh, practicing, using some preps.
Prepping Gal at 2:07-Well said, and my experience mirrored.
Wolf @ 12:24 -
The only “downside” to prepping is time and money and the ability to think through what is needed and where to get it.
My other neighbor is very worried about a pandemic, but he is quite busy with work and has very little free time to spend on anything but his work. Because he was receptive, I gave him numerous samples of what I had purchased, masks, alcohol hand wipes, fish antibiotics (amoxicillin), and phamplets and sources from which I ordered these products. I also gave him this web site and other informative articles re H5N1. He was so appreciative because I saved him a lot of time trying to figure out what to get and where to get it. He has the money and the vision of what could come. He simply has very little time to prepare his insurance policy.
For this insurance policy, you can’t call up an insurance agent and buy this as with other insurances. However, the need for this (considering the consequences), is so pressing that If people can envision the consequences, I think they would take the time and find a little money to start prepping.
JV - Gotcha. I was speaking more in terms of reasoning. What could any reasonable person find objectionable in prepping for an emergency? But the types of impediments you describe are very real. I am of modest means (to say the least) and you’re correct that it takes a great deal of planning to prepare properly. I work 2 jobs. I also do not own a car, which limits me even further. No trips to Wally World or Aldi’s. Still, it can be done. I seldom go anywhere without picking something up ‘For the Pandemic”.
JV – at 12:14 and JV – at 13:07
“The only “downside” to prepping is time and money and the ability to think through what is needed and where to get it.”
Exactly. With the insurance policies you mentioned, one writes a check and sends it. Some or all of the coverage is mandatory in the U.S. (if you have a mortgage or for state laws / lending requirements for autos).
Pandemic insurance is entirely optional. Moreover, it takes thought, effort, $$ and time to accomplish, while investigating scenarios many of us would rather leave alone. It means getting deeply educated in the ways we’re dependent on unreliable providers, and exploring how we can devise ways to provide for ourselves and others.
This is deeply rocking the applecart, if not tipping it over entirely. It implies that the other ways we’re spending our thought, effort, $$ and time may come to nothing (or to not much) if/when a serious pandemic hits.
I’d be tempted to avoid it myself, if the panic at being unprepared didn’t MAKE me act. That said, I have found the changes from this are profound and actually … priceless. But they’re not compatible with maintaining the status quo. THAT’s what keeps people from prepping, imo.
make that post above from ‘blackbird’
make that post above from ‘blackbird’
uh-huh, and this one too. A one-person post blitz. ;-)
amak – at 11:55 “I think we all who visit and stay here are all of a kindred spirit… I read these posts and I just keep saying - yes, right, exactly!!! I am not nuts.”
I feel like that most of the time, the other part of the time I think we are ALL nuts!
Some people DO put a lot of time into buying insurance before they send out that check. <grin> My hubby is a “rate shopper” and will spend hours, days, weeks of effort before deciding what company to go with. We really have to because it is a major expense of our business.
But there are people that just go with a “name brand” insurance thinking that that is going to cover them in the event of an emergency. Think again … there are people all over the south that have learned that to their chagrin. They didn’t read their policy and now suffer for it.
For me it still comes back to the way we think about things. To have an independent thought process is important, but not nearly as important as making the choice to act on that independent thought.
For many people it is simply easier to allow other people to do their thinking for them. I’m not being snide, not really. We all do it to a great or lesser degree … its how we spread out the work load of life. What we have to find a way to do is to get people to realize that prepping is an individual task that requires individual thought and planning … it is not a task that can be left up to someone else.
And as importantly, we also need to get them to realize that IF they do chose to leave a task up to someone else, then they still retain the responsibility of consequences if “leaving it up to someone else” winds up not being a good decision. Don’t blame your spouse for not stocking the kitchen cabinets. Don’t blame the cops if things get “uncivil.” Don’t blame the government when they don’t arrive at your door on a white stead to rescue you from your own choices. Don’t blame the docs if it takes a while to get a working vaccine and your food runs out beforehand.
I think a huge obstacle to preppring (foodwise at least) is that most people I know do not actually EAT shelf-stable foods much. It is one thing to stock up on medications and such, like Tylenol. It is another to stock up on foods you generally wouldn’t or don’t eat. It requires a lifestyle change, especially if you do not bake or cook from scratch.
I think this is one reason prepping might be more easily promoted in the country versus the big cities — it is less of a stretch for people who live far from restaurants to say “stock up your pantry a bit” versus those in the cities who generall pick up take-out food or shop every day.
I’m a city girl and yes I have a tendency to pick up take out food a lot. I had to sit down with paper and pencil and write down what I thought the actual days would be like if I had to stay home all the time. We eat out for breakfast and lunch everyday and a lot of dinners too since we are all so busy. I have been reading here a lot now and have managed to get about three months worth of food stocked that we would eat. I’ll miss my daily salads and fresh fruit that I pick up all the time. I have gotten things ready to be able to sprout and have canned and dehydrated fruits and veggies.
I remember baking from scratch from when I was a kid, I figure I can do it again if I have the time and if I am staying at home I will.
I’ve paid attention to what everyone has said about what we may or not have in regards to power and have made adjustments to my strategy. I like my soft mattress, natual gas, running water but I will do what is neccessary to keep my family safe.
There sure is a lot to be done.
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