From Flu Wiki 2

Forum: Possible Vectors from Chickens

01 September 2006

gharris – at 14:11

Chickens have a number of parasites - nice clear list of them with diagrams from Ohio State University bulletin is found here:- http://tinyurl.com/p48uo Among them is the Darkling Beetle which causes Acute Leukosis (Marek’s Disease) Marek’s disease usually affects birds between three and four months old. Symptoms are characterized by various degrees of paralysis, most easily observed in legs and wings. Droopy wings, gasping, loss of weight, pallor and sometimes diarrhea are also symptoms. Birds severely affected may be found lying on their sides with one leg stretched forward and the other held behind. The disease affects both broiler and egg laying types of poultry. Losses can reach two percent of the flock per day, and mortality may exceed 30 percent of the flock within a few weeks.

Acute leukosis is highly contagious and has been shown to be airborne. Contamination may persist in the environment because the darkling beetle may serve as a reservoir for residual contamination. Beetles have been observed feeding on carcasses of poultry dead of leukosis, and it appears that beetles may become contaminated in the process. Adult beetles are capable of retaining the contamination and transmitting the leukosis when eaten by chickens, in the opinion of some scientists. Other diseases which are spread include the causative agents of avian influenza, salmonella, fowl pox, coccidiosis, botulism and new castle disease. They also act as vectors of cecal worms and avian tapeworms.

any comments?? TOM DVM or others??

gharris – at 22:04

bump

gharris – at 22:50

Anybody know of any H5N1 studies involving the Darkling Beetle - I think he is a good candidate as the ‘vector’from infected chickens - the above article mentions avian influenza as one of the charming things he can spread!

Tom DVM – at 22:56

Hi g. Just a few thoughts.

It has been discovered that in at least one case H5N1 was found in flies that would have fed on chicken carcasses.

Therefore, theoretically, these parasites could be a vector of H5N1 but I would caution that there is a threshold concentration of virus required to produce clinical infection and we don’t know whether that threshold could be crossed with the low concentrations in parasites…

…but having said that H5N1 is a different ‘animal’ from I believe any other virus known to man and therefore the threshold would be much lower for this virus.

It is very important and Thanks for bringing it up.

I would expect other similar studies will be coming out soon.

Cygnet – at 23:55

Darkling beatles in larval form are meal worms.

They’re not especially common “in the wild.” I also suspect they’re a fairly minor vector; there’s other things — like chicken droppings and chickens sneezing on each other — that I suspect are far more significant.

For that matter, chickens are cannibals.

02 September 2006

Cygnet – at 00:01

By the way, Mareks is not a human health threat. It’s common, though I would expect that it would NOT be an issue in Indonesia because the susceptibility to Mareks is genetic and natural selection would lead to resistance. It’s a bigger problem in factory farms and among highly inbred show chickens. It’s a nasty disease — it’s a herpese virus that causes everything from brain damage, blindness and nerve damage to lymphoma (which manifests as sudden and dramatic weight loss) to great gross ulcers on the skin.

I found out about Mareks the hard way …

gharris – at 23:39

Cygnet - Sorry for your experience with Marek’s!!

My interest in Darkling/mealworm is that hey are known to carry AVIAN INFLUENZA according to Ohio State - Just wondered if anybody knew of any recent studies on that aspect - or if anybody knows any researcher at Ohio State who might be able to enlighten the Wiki abt that aspect??

03 September 2006

stormsailor1981 – at 13:11

i read a report that h5n1 was isolated from a dog in thailand. dead dog was found in area of human outbreak last year. dr took samples, they tested positive. he just released the information recently because he has been busy and wanted to confirm the positive test results.

stormsailor1981 – at 13:18

PEOPLE TOLD NOT TO PANIC AS DOG DIES OF BIRD FLU By Pennapa Hongthong (The Nation) September 2, 2006

The Public Health Ministry yesterday urged the public not to panic over news that a dog had died of bird flu.

Dr Paichit Warachit, the director-general of the Medical Sciences Department, asked the public not to be scared by a report that a dog in Suphan Buri had died after contracting the H5N1 virus.

Taweesak Songserm, the vet from Kasetsart University who found the carcass of the stray dog in Suphan Buri, said it had contracted and died of the disease after eating the carcasses of wild ducks and that it was a unique case.

Taweesak said he obtained the carcass of the dog on a field trip to Suphan Buri during the country’s first bird-flu outbreak in 2004.

However, he only completed his research that found H5N1 in cells in various organs of the dog’s body, including lungs, liver and kidneys, late last year.

Since it was going to be the first such case in the world, he said, the laboratory results needed to be confirmed by many labs.

Dogs became the fourth mammal species reported as having contracted the virus. The other three are humans, tigers and cats.

Taweesak said he was going to publish the findings of his research, which was a joint project between his university’s Faculty of Veterinary Sciences and Chulalongkorn’s Faculty of Medical Sciences, in the journal Emerging Infectious Diseases

FrenchieGirlat 14:16

Thinking aloud, mmmmm, are the following parts of the puzzle or not? Just in case, I’ll make this post a sort of note for the record (following excerpts, emphasis is mine).

Yesterday on this thread, Cygnet – at 00:01 — “…By the way, Mareks is not a human health threat. It’s common, though I would expect that it would NOT be an issue in Indonesia because the susceptibility to Mareks is genetic and natural selection would lead to resistance. It’s a bigger problem in factory farms and among highly inbred show chickens. It’s a nasty disease — it’s a herpese virus that causes everything from brain damage, blindness and nerve damage to lymphoma (which manifests as sudden and dramatic weight loss) to great gross ulcers on the skin. […] I found out about Mareks the hard way.”

and

Thread IndonesiaOutbreakIV - FrenchieGirl – at 11:26. Thoroughbred vs. nonpedigreed chickens - Should that make a difference? I have noticed several times that they mention it. In fact, there was one article on MetroTV (about the prices fetched by chickens on the market) that was very ambiguous about this, I wondered whether the people there seem to make a difference/have been surprised by which chickens get sick and/or customers wanting to buy one sort rather than the other. Can’t put my finger on it. Can anyone here?”

and

Thread IndonesiaOutbreakIV - ANON-YYZ – at 11:38. “For example Thoroughbred (may = Fighting Cock?) is worth a lot more money, and will be hidden from view when the officials come into a village to try to cull all chicken?”

and

Yesterday on this thread, gharris – at 14:11. “Chickens have a number of parasites - nice clear list of them with diagrams from Ohio State University bulletin is found here:- http://tinyurl.com/p48uo […] Other diseases which are spread include the causative agents of avian influenza, salmonella, fowl pox, coccidiosis, botulism and new castle disease…

and

Today - Tom DVM – at 22:56. …It has been discovered that in at least one case H5N1 was found in flies that would have fed on chicken carcasses. […]Therefore, theoretically, these parasites could be a vector of H5N1 but I would caution that there is a threshold concentration of virus required to produce clinical infection and we don’t know whether that threshold could be crossed with the low concentrations in parasites… […]…but having said that H5N1 is a different ‘animal’ from I believe any other virus known to man and therefore the threshold would be much lower for this virus.

anonymous – at 14:31

with these swans, I thought about freyana anserina

stormsailor1981 – at 18:12

it would seem that almost any mammal species can be infected with h5n1. that certainly broadens the vectors of infection by several magnitudes.

could also explain the cluster in march, family ate a pig at the reunion.

gharris – at 23:23

I think I remember that they did tests on the pigs and other mammals in Karo and came up negative?

FrenchieGirl - yes - that is exactly what I was getting at - Niman says that the sequences in (some of the) human cases in Indon dont have the same cleavage site as the avian samples - i.e. there MUST be another vector - my thought is (if it is not H2H??!!) that it might turn out to be this Darkling Beetle - and the comment that Marek’s Disease needs a genetic susceptability is another VERY good reason to suspect the Darkling!!

I wish some epidemiologist/viroligist/DVM or other was taking a close look at it!! Wonder if we could raise the flag about it with some research lab somewhere?? Perhaps some Wikian has a contact at Ohio State as they seem to have a bit of an idea abt what it is about??!!

31 October 2006

Closed - Bronco Bill – at 21:21

Closed to maintain Forum speed.

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