From Flu Wiki 2

Forum: A Good Book

18 September 2006

anonymous – at 00:54

…seems to be”Beat the Flu: How to stay healthy through the coming bird flu pandemic”, by AA Avlicino.(614.518AVL in my library!!)

 It mentions the Nanomask and says it hasn’t been tested by NIOSH(the US National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health) at the time of print(that being sometime in 2006) ,”but there is some believable science behind it that suggests their claim to filter out 0.027 micron is to be taken legitimately.”

 It says the problem with all the N/R/P 95/99/100 masks…apart from the sealing…is the grille opening is only 0.3 micron, and that H5N1 virii is approximately 0.1 micron. Yes, it does say that a lot of the time a virus will be piggy backed on a larger particle of some sort(water/dust), but that some virii will be alone and go straight through the filter.

 For those that don’t know: millimetre means thousandth of a metre; micro metre means millionth of a meter and nanometre means billionth of a metre. So the virii of H5N1 are approximately 100 nanometres in size. I don’t know if this is length or with, just trying to help.

 Haven’t checked the whole site yet, simply looked it up?(If the seal is not good then it will be just as useless as the other masks, for instance!!)

 It’s the Nanomask by emergency Filtration technology.

 The book also say’s that you shouldn’t eat sushi..damn!
Jefiner – at 01:16

I seem to remember hearing some bad buzz about the nano mask . . . anyone help me here?

Sushi? Only if it’s California roll.

anonymous – at 01:46
 Well, really they say that no filter short of a NASA spacesuit is going to protect you 100 percent…or a “Biohazard labsuit: level 4 and up”.

 We need some sort of answer to stop a possible 1918!

 From what i have read in this book, the other ones are useless- but I’ll concede that this one is useless aswell if it isn’t able to seal correctly to the face, for example.
anonymous – at 03:49
 …from said book(pg32):

 “There are countless ways to be infected with an influenza A virus. Touch something, anything at all, that has been in contact with an infected individual. Then rub the moist corners of your eyes, nose or mouth- an involuntary reaction each of us does dozens of times a day. You’re infected. It is not obligatory to inhale the airborne particles from an infected person sneezing or coughing on you. Think of that next time you use a public toilet, pick up something from the pavement, or are even handed coins as change. Let’s not even mention visiting bars and restaurants.
   On a recent trip to Rome, I observed the barista at a trendy Via Veneto coffee house “washing” the cups. His process was to take the dirty cups , drop them into the sink of standing, slimy, soapy water just enough to rinse out whatever coffee was left in them, and then put them on a drip tray to dry. I ordered several espressos just to carefully examine the cups, certainly not to put them anywhere near my lips. As I thought, I found lipstick on most of them, several different colours on some. Now if the lipstick is still there, what makes you think that the viruses carried by that individual coffee-lover would not be? Soapy water standing until it is lukewarm is not bleach. It does not disinfect anything on contact.”

 Food for thought.

 We need some kind of slogan to get the basic message across to use your head. I think a lot of us think the effort is perhaps futile(including me to certain degrees-especially when we are confronted with information that makes it seem just that little bit more impossible!). But we must try…each person who is MORE CAREFUL is another person who will not add to the pandemic chaos.

 How about: “Stop,think and plan your day. Make the Bird Flu find another way!” ??

 It works for me ;}
anonymous – at 03:51
 Oh ye: where’s the dirt on the Nanomask?

 Believe me- I DO want to know!!
Calandiel – at 07:18

At least one company marketed the NanoMask as being NIOSH approved, while this was not the case:

www.cdc.gov

I contacted the author of the CDC alert published on their website to gain more information. Here is the email I sent in early August:

To: Ahlers, Heinz W. (CDC/NIOSH/NPPTL) Subject: NanoMask / NanoGuard

Hello Mr. Ahlers -

I read your notice “NIOSH Respirator Users’ Notice: Misleading Representation of a Particulate Respirator” regarding the Nano Guard respirator posted on the CDC website. (note attached file: <Nanoguard 062906> )

Are you able to determine if the NanoGuard mask is the same item as the NanoMask being marketed by Emergency Filtration Products and distributed by 2H Distributors (amongst others)? Website: Emergency Filtration

Bird Flu Protection Test results are also attached above as a pdf document < Bird_Flu_Testing.pdf >

Additionally, NanoMasks Ltd markets the NanoMask and documents the following test results on their website: Nanomask The NanoMask website page is also attached above: <NanoMask Website.htm> - Can NIOSH verify that the test results as posted on the NanoMasks Ltd website are verifiable, valid and demostrate efficacy in the reduced transmission of airborne viral particles? - Does NIOSH recognize Nelson Laboratories as an approved and independent laboratory?

These questions arise due to my concern that although N95/N100/R95/R100/P95/P100 NIOSH approved respirators effectively filter particles of .3 microns or larger, the influenza viruses range from .02 to .25 Microns, which would render the NIOSH N/R/P approved masks largely ineffective in the prevention of virus transmission: Britannica

There are many Flu Blog sites attempting to address this question. Any information or direction you can provide regarding:

  *  the efficacy of N95/N100/R95/R100/P95/P100 NIOSH approved respirators against airborne viral particles of .02 - .25 microns 
  -or-

will greatly help navigation through these muddy waters.

Dr. Ahlers reply:

“Thank you for your questions. I will try to answer them where I can.

1) Are you able to determine if the NanoGuard mask is the same item as the NanoMask being marketed by Emergency Filtration Products and distributed by 2H Distributors (amongst others)? The 2HD Nanoguard mask was a different product from the EFP NanoMask

2) NIOSH will only test a mask when a manufacturer requests a NIOSH approval of that mask. EFP has not requested an approval for the NanoMask.

3) Since NIOSH has not performed tests on this mask we cannot comment on the test results. This test is apparently using the infectious dose titer which is not typically used as a measure of filtration efficiency

4) NIOSH test filter penetration using a particle challenge at the generally accepted most penetrating particle size. The test parameters are described in 42 CFR 84.181. For the Sodium chloride challenge a test aerosol having a count median diameter of 0.075 micrometer is used. This is equivalent to a mass median aerodynamic diameter of 0.300 micrometers. The count median is the size where 50% of the particles are above and 50% of the particles are below by number. The mass median aerodynamic diameter is the size where 1/2 of the weight of the challenge is above and 1/2 the weight of the challenge is below. Since smaller particles are lighter the count median is smaller than the mass median. Further, masks tend to be more efficient on both smaller and on larger particle diameters. On the smaller particles there is increased capture due to diffusion and electrostatic capture. On larger particles there is increased capture due to impaction.

5). NIOSH does not have q mechanism at this time for recognizing any outside testing laboratories as an “approved and independent laboratory”

The CDC recommendations for avian influenza precautions when visiting a known infected area may be found at the following link:

 Questions & Answers at pandemicflu.gov

I hope this answers your questions. If you would like more information I will try to provide it, or you may call me at 412 386 5132″

I wasn’t satisfied with the response regarding the micron size of the particle capture for the N-R-P masks. Was this babblespeak? Your opinions count here….

anonymous – at 07:50
 Very cool work Calandiel. I understand that this mask is not same mask as advertised by Emergency Filtration Technology.

 I also understand that the nanomask that I mentioned to begin with(by EFT) is NOT approved by NIOSH.

 You have actually scared me into thinking that there is not one commercially available mask on the planet that can deal

with this virus.

 On the website..if you type Nanomask into Google you will see one by EmergencyFiltrationTechnology…it talks of filtering 

out 0.027 Micron sizes particles.

 The book I was reading said that they(the virii) are about 0.1 Micron’s, but the website said they vary from ~0.08 Micron to just over about 

0.1 ie confirming this approximation of 0.1 Micron.

 You have stated that they vary from 0.02 to 0.25 Micron.

 On the smaller side of this scale, then the virus will slip through even the NanoMask even if it was confirmend to 

filter out 0.027 Micron Virus.

 NOW I am scared!!

 PLEASE keep posting! Very Important! Thankyou.

 At the moment things look very grim!
Blue – at 10:02
 Hard to read. Too Hard!

 Seems to be something about the respirator’s not being effective for viruses!?

 New thread needed!
LauraBat 10:25

Please check the forum index - there are lots of threads on masks, including the nano.

Bertha’sKittyBoutique – at 11:30

Sushi?

Sushi!

Please, why did the book say not to eat sushi?

I’m on my way out the door to meet the girls at our favorite sushi bar. <sigh>

Blue – at 11:33
 Ta…found one when I typed in masks to start my own thread …and it took me to an old closed one………V. Intersesting…I’m tired now and going to bed, but when I wake up!?

 The one thing I really didn’t like tho. is talk of a fake approval by NIOSH(or whoever it’s supposed to be)!! =“Just a little bit scary!”
Blue – at 11:39
 Oh yeh: the Sushi part was in a  section of the bookcalled”Don’t eat H5N1”. It said something like: there is only one rule regarding Sushi/Sashimi/Raw Fish→Don’t eat it.

 I was cut..I love that stuff!
Bertha’sKittyBoutique – at 12:57

Blue at 11:39

Does it mean to cease eating sushi ASAP or at some point in the future as H5N1 gains momentum?

Gosh, I eat sush several times a week. Must I quit THIS WEEK?

I’d appreciate your opinion. And, thanks!

Bertha’sKittyBoutique – at 13:43

Eating sushi — gives an added dimension to asking a blessing before meals.

Blue – at 23:19

No_ it just siad it as a complete aside…I don’t even know if that’s a word but it just said it for the sake of it…it appeared totally unrelated bird flu…I didn’t read the whole chapter but it was in list of thing related to cooking and supposedly bird flu…I couldn’t find where it was related to bird flu…so I must admit I was dissapointed with that certain chapter, and read another.!!

 It said that bird flu was seen coming toward a pandemic when the CFR dropped. This was explained as so it could infect more people and eventually be a bigger killer. I found this interesting  and that is why I read this book to start with. That was in the first chapter about the history.
Bertha’sKittyBoutique – at 23:27

Thanks for your response, Blue. Doesn’t sound like enough information to force me to abandon my sushi habit just yet.

Blue – at 23:34
 No. I like sushi too. There was no information on it- it just plainly it in a list.
blackbird – at 23:53

An oceanographer of my acquaintence once said knowing what he does about what’s in raw fish and seafood, he would NEVER eat sushi.

Maybe that’s what the book was getting at.

I still eat it, tho. Love it.

Bertha’sKittyBoutique – at 23:59

Blackbird, I’ve heard people say not to eat sushi, too, but no one will explain the reason/s. And today we’re led to believe fish harbor H5N1. Really, is this true or an edumacated guess?

19 September 2006

blackbird – at 00:01

BKB - I don’t know about H5N1. The ocean’gr’phr’s comment was years ago, about seafood in general.

Bertha’sKittyBoutique – at 00:04

Thanks, Blackbird. I understand that you’re just relating a passage from the text. It’s just that it is frustrating to consider a lifestyle change for no apparent reason. KWIM?

Blue – at 04:38

No/No/No The book, about H5N1 said not to eat sushi for no other reason than to say “not to eat sushi”. The author just took the opportunity to tell everybody not to eat sushi!

 Strange, I thought, but true.

 AND he gave no reason for it.

 Just don’t do it, apparently.
zeta – at 19:26

It sounds an awful lot like “Don’t eat butter”, “Don’t eat eggs”, and “Don’t drink.” Everything that they tell you is bad for you this week they’ll tell you is good for you next week. Sometimes I think the experts are just control freaks playing manipulative headgames with the masses.

22 September 2006

A. A. Avlicino – at 09:04

Hello, I was given a heads-up that several of you were discussing my book, and I thought I’d pop in and answer any questions you might have. When it comes to sushi/sashimi/crudo, etc., the rationale behind my advising anyone to not eat it is as follows.

Bird faeces contain extremely high concentrations of H5N1 that can stay active for weeks. When the excrement is dropped in fresh water and to a lesser degree in salt water, the live virus can easily infect fish in that body of water via contact or ingestion. The only way to appropriately inactivate H5N1 present in any fish/seafood product is by cooking it until it is thoroughly opaque which usually translates to an inner temperature of 160F/71C.

In my latest blog entry at Bird Flu: What We Need To Know I deal with a potentially hazardous pond right beside my home. H5N1 has been identified less than 100 miles away in Montana ducks.

>>>

There’s something about ducks. They fly. And they don’t respect the U.S./Canada border. All that means that Mr. and Mrs. Duck that are bobbing around on the pond 50 yards from my kitchen door are likely to be carriers, and even if they’re not, it’s a pretty good bet that Huey, Dewey or Louie are.

That pond is right beside my campfire site… the big round rocks that line the firepit were fished out from the sides of that very pond. With my bare hands. In water containing untold fecal matter from ducks that very likely are carrying H5N1.

First things first. There is no such thing as “low path” H5N1. The virus is not a speeding juggernaut with a specified linear trajectory. There is no calculus in virology. There are countless clades, or sub-strains of H5N1 evolving and developing along their own paths and at their own pace. Any one of these clades can develop “humanized” characteristics by evolving and swapping genes with other viruses inside a human anytime anywhere. Like the time when I splashed the sweat from my face with that famous pondwater.

>>>

However, my ex is a sushi maniac and refuses to heed my advice about gorging on raw fish. All I can tell you is that I don’t plan on joining her for dinner anytime soon.

27 September 2006

Blue – at 15:23
 Hi Mr. Avlicino.

 CRIKEY.

 I will go and read this other book at the library and ask if you can confirm or deny something or rather about the nature of this BF.(Yes, I have a question!)

 Back soon.(possibly 12–18 hours..it’s 3:16 in the morning over here).

 Awesome. (The POWER!)
Blue – at 15:24
 Hey_Put up a post Mr. Avlacino!!
Blue – at 15:27
 Mr. Avilicino,

  Do you perhaps know anything about what these Pandemics looked like in the beginning.

  (I might go and read your book some more.)

  By the way, this is what my other question will eventually relate to, of course.

19 October 2006

A. A. Avlicino – at 22:59

Hello, Blue.

Sorry for the delay in replying. Can you be more specific about “the beginning” of the Pandemics?

Thanks!

20 October 2006

Blue – at 12:26
 Yeh, I was going to ask two questions regarding the beginning of the pandemic in 1918 hoping that you may know bit more than the resrt of us.

 One Question has already been answered in that I was curious and wanted confirmation that there seemed to be no huge losses of birds in 1918(My question from another book to you, which I never got around to quoting for you). It seems there wasn’t and so what we are dealing with now is just so different. That’s been answered, but where the answer gets us I don’t know. I don’t know if this is significant or not, its just general research on the beast that approaches-Avian Influena.

 The other question is: “How was it first reported in the papers that something bad is going to happen?”.

 That is to say, how do you perceive that the first hint of imminent international disaster was communicated to the people of the time? Was there a Headline in the paper one day saying that we’re all toast? Was there no clue until it was upon them(the World)? Did word of mouth save the ones who didn’t die?

 Just the coming of the disaster and the expectations of the people interest me. 

 Did people of the day know anything about pandemics being cyclical events of nature even?

 This is the line of my thinking. How did all of these people die?
Blue – at 12:34
 Also, in your book you didn’t exactly recommend the Nanomask- you just said that it may be promising new technology.

 What is your opinion on appropriate mask/respirators now, as the rest of the forum is especially interested in this question compared to the start of a pandemic. It is a confusing topic.

 Tho, I think they would be interested in anything you had to say on either of the two topics..and on this forum-WOW! The first question is research and almost complete curiosity, where as the second is actually “Life Saving” information.

 Thankyou.
Bubba – at 12:38

In the beginning God created Fire, so we would not have to eat Sushi!

Blue – at 12:47
 Yeh, well I think that the person talking about his diving mate saying that he would never eat sushi knowing what was in raw fish, was probably referring to Sea Lice.

 Maybe not, but we have always been told that Sushi is not worth eating- I just don’t know why. I’m only guessing, Sea Lice. But, I dunno.

31 October 2006

A. A. Avlicino – at 04:46

We always have to be careful when applying current standards of medicine and technology to historical events. Although it is true that large-scale bird kills were not reported in 1918, that is not to say that they were not occurring. The North American continent of 1918 was much emptier than it is today and most of the population was huddled on the coastal northeast, thus millions of birds could have been falling from the skies in the plains and West without anyone properly reporting it to the authorities who even then might not have made any connection between the two events.

There is also the hypothesis that the bird stage of this virus was fairly shortlived and it gained humanized characteristics after a rather brief avian “incubation”. We may never know the actual reasons. Today’s news that a new strain of H5N1, named “Fujian-like” after the Chinese province where it was first detected, sidesteps any current vaccine as it may have developed under challenge by the widespread poultry vaccines of the past year, provides a valuable insight into the extreme evolutionary velocity of these viruses.

Senior UN System Coordinator for Avian and Human Influenza David Nabarro today stated: “Frankly, I don’t know how we’re going to know when pandemic flu gets close. We’re just going to get hit by it.” Just as a random H5N1 clade could develop today into a humanized form, it could just as likely have occurred two years ago or two years from now. There seems to be no fixed, predictable time schedule. “You pays you money an’ you takes you chances.”

As for when the first media reports occurred, the 1918 strain first hit the Army barracks in Kansas in early spring and spread widely, but given that the headlines were monopolized by the war coming to its climax, not much notice was given in the media at the time. It is conceivable that it was not necessarily identified as a true pandemic until 8 million Spaniards died in May. By that time it had been characterized as a “Spanish Flu” and the massive media reports began. We must also remember that the media of nearly a century ago was quite different from today. Most rural Americans of that time rarely saw a newspaper, let alone read one. And they were a bit busy with their ploughing to care much about news. Regardless we must also recognize that the pandemic was couched in the misconceptions of the time and the accurate and timely flow of information that we take for granted these days was unconceivable 88 years ago. Although the Black Death was a well-known historical fact, I doubt that any but the most applied scholars drew any pandemic parallels until late into the fall/winter of 1918.

I can’t really in good conscience recommend any mask, even one with as superfine a mesh as Nanomask. Place any mask on your face and fit it as snugly as you can. Then make a few grimaces. You’ll see that the mask will lift from your skin by as much as a full centimeter. So much for the micron filters… Maybe if someone can develop a mask that can be “glued” onto the skin, (perhaps with a surgical liquid adhesive) then we might have the first truly effective protection. Until then, it’s better than nothing but not that much better.

Anisakiasis is the main parasitic disease contracted from infected raw seafood, but the concern with regards to H5N1 is that many fish are coprophagic (eaters of feces) and all we need to do is follow the H5N1-loaded excrement of a duck or seagull into the water and then into a fish in order to convince ourselves to char our seafood until it’s crispy.

I apologize once again for the delay in my replies, but I hope that I have been able to be of assistance.

LauraBat 06:08

Thank you for your comments. Your posting for yesterday gels with how most of the rest of us feel here on the wiki - a vaccine is a pipe dream. IF they come up with one, it is unlikely to help all but a few perhaps at the tail end of a prolonged pandemic. And that’s IF the strain remains constant, which is unlikely adn the latest news supports this. Telling people there will be a vaccine will cost lives. Most don’t understand the impossibility of it all.

Many of us have been trying all different angles to get 1) The Power That Be to act on things that WILL save lives - stockpile medicines and equipment, devise plans for treatment centers, mainiting vital services (power, water, food), etc. 2) Get others to prepare as individuals/families. With a few exceptions, many of our efforts have fallen on deaf ears. Any suggestions that you or others on your blog have tried with success?

Again, thanks!

01 November 2006

Blue – at 10:38
 WOW_

 Good to know that we won’t have a vaccine?? Still good to know.

 Bit of a history lesson aswell, Thanx Mr. Avlicino.

03 November 2006

A. A. Avlicino – at 08:07

The main problem with the current state of government pandemic plans is that they are excellent epidemic plans but completely useless in the event of a full-blown pandemic. They virtually all focus on an existing medical hierarchy and chain of command when in reality it will be the medical corps that will be hit first and hardest. To date only a handful of pandemic plans have even remotely hinted at addressing social aspects and provision of staples when it is quite obvious even to the most jaded observer that the very fragile J.I.T. supply system adopted by most staple distributors will fall apart within days. I have personally taken this case to everyone from Canadian Health Minister Clement to WHO Global Influenza Coordinator Fukuda and received little more than a polite “don’t call us, we’ll call you.”

There is a knee-jerk reactionary response built in to political structures and that is to always rely on the “magic bullet,” regardless of cost or efficiency. Unfortunately, in the case of H5N1, there is no such bullet on the horizon. Tamiflu, Relenza, Peramivir, Amantadine and Rimantadine are only marginally effective, only when given in large prophylaxis doses and relatively useless once symptoms commence. I think we’ll see a 10 cent gallon of gasoline before we see a true H5N1 pandemic vaccine. But that doesn’t stop the unconscionable squandering of billions of tax dollars to enrichen the pharmaceutical companies in exchange for little more than placebos.

I believe our consciences will not allow us to sit idly by in the prospect of what could potentially be the greatest human die-off since the Black Plague. So what can we do? Continue to raise hell, even though our chances of actually being heard by anyone in a position to take any effective action whatsoever are quite remote.

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