30 minutes 60ºC (140.0ºF) (half hour at a temperature that causes first and second degree burns in humans in ten seconds) This info is from Wikipedia http://tinyurl.com/g45ld I’m thinking the oven. Some input would be helpful, most everyone gets mail.
I started this because of the UV light thread, I for one need a less complicated way of dealing with this issue.
Why can’t you let it bake in the sunlight for a day or so? Be sure to let it bake on both sides? Not an answer just a suggestion?
I wrote this a while back. See if you find it useful.
Steps to dealing with contaminated mail:
Equipment needed, to be used outside of the house eg on the porch:
1 PPE masks, gloves, etc,
and either
2 scanner connected through window to PC inside the house
or
3 fax machine connected to phone line
Now you are in business. Put on your PPE, go out on the porch and open the mail. Throw away all junk. Documents and letters that you need to keep or file, put them in a box and store them outside for a lengthy period of time. Mail that you need to respond to, either scan it to your pc or fax it to yourself. (For this you need 2 phone lines, and either another fax machine or pc to receive fax.) Store the original as above.
There may be times when it is necessary to use the original piece of paper for whatever response, eg forms to be filled in. Even these you can substitue with copies quite often and maybe submit the original at a later date.
Very clever, I missed that idea. An even easier method as a take off, I have a combo printer/copier, so just copy the bills and no phone lines needed. But still if the virus dies after 2–3 days or less in heat, why not let them cure on the porch in the sun. Or driveway on the blacktop. Or just thow them all in a box and after a week, open them
anon_22, thanks for that suggestion, can we get a little less complicated :-) something for “dummies”.
something for “dummies”.
Put them out on the porch, as NJ suggested.
I wrote this on a thread when peole were suggesting a lot more complicated deals. LOL. I myself am not that paranoid.
Some of my old thoughts on this subject with no studies to back them up:
Use tongs to open the mail box and to remove the mail from the box. (Place tongs in bleach solution after use). Place the mail in a clear plastic tupperware on a metal grate suspended over a thin layer of pure bleach, and replace the clear lid on the tupperware, and then let it set for seven days in the sun. Then remove the mail with tongs and place on an ironing board and iron both sides to the point of browning. (Antique irons that can be heated on a wood stove or over a fire are still pretty cheap). Use disposable gloves to open the mail and to read the contents. Do this in the open air. Burn the mail after inspection. And after all that, still no guarantees. No studies.
You would be amazed at how many colds and flus you have contracted through your lifetime by just handling the mail that comes to your home. During cold and flu season I always wash my hands after handling the mail.
MM,
You kidding me? I don’t ever iron both sides of anything. In fact, I try not to iron any side at all. LOL
I guess I’m more of a tech geek than a housewife, eh?
anon_22: Sheltering in place will provide a lot of time on our hands. The pleasures of ironing, even the mail, might be therapeutic. : )
anon_22 – at 10:13 I myself am not that paranoid.
Thank god! I generally agree with and find much of value in your posts anon_22, but after reading the scanner/fax post, I was beginning to doubt my sanity and commitment to preparedness!
anon_22 – at 10:45 You kidding me? I don’t ever iron both sides of anything. In fact, I try not to iron any side at all. LOL
Now THIS I agree with!
Seriously though, refresh me: How long can the virus survive on surfaces? I’d just gather my mail (wash my hands well afterward) and leave it in a pile in the garage until X time had passed. Wouldn’t that work, too?
the simple task I will use for the US mail is this. Using gloves will move the mail to a cardboard box labeled #1. Each day I will do the same thing, and when I get to day #6, will take the mail out of #1 and open it….as I live near Death Valley and the UV light is so high out here, with days of being in the sun, as well as the low humidity (the virus if there were any will have died by day number 5), then I will be able to open the mail. No bills have to be paid within 5 days so that is no problem,,,
There was a study done on virus I remember with SARS and the virus can live on a plastic surface for up to a few days, and I would expect the same with this virus, although have not seen a study. If the surface is damp, of course will last longer so the time period should be adjusted for those areas with higher humidity. Out here heavens even I would not last two days without water.
Medical Maven – at 10:50
“anon_22: Sheltering in place will provide a lot of time on our hands.”
THAT is something that I’m seriously in doubt of. I can think of plenty of things that I don’t have to do now which will keep me very busy, like keeping stock, or making sure people don’t waste stuff.
It also tells me that you have limited experience of having a LARGE family living on top of each other, maybe? :-)
Viruses live longer on fabric than on smooth surfaces. I don’t have the exact info but I’m pretty sure that on fabric it can be more than a week. So it depends on what kind of paper or packaging you get.
anon_22 at 11:15: Everybody should have a corner and their chores, however miniscule. A place (or corner) that they can call their own and “work” to give meaning to life will go a long way in lessening your anticipated difficulties. And if that doesn’t work, get out the plastic handcuffs. : )
Gary Near Death Valley – at 11:11 What will you do if it rains on your boxes? Or if you’re putting them on a porch, will that be too shaded?
I have an extremely large porch area well away from the rain even with wind blowing. But like the pandemic that only comes once on average every 30 or so years,,,,a normal rain storm out here,,,,only comes very rarely. 99% of the time the sun is bright and the humidity is in single digit, which is why I never hike the desert in summer, and when I do in the fall and winter, have enough water on me to last a couple of days.
Why can’t we just spray the mail thoroughly with Lysol spray? Seems a lot simpler.
So, I am going to get the mail with latex gloves put it in a box on the back porch numbered 1- 6 and rotate my mail each day. Dispose of the gloves. If it rains, it will go into the garage in a box. I may, if bored, lay it out in the sun and let it bake on the back porch. Good ideas from all, not going to get too comlicated and this works for me. Reminds me of opening the mail with latex gloves during the anthrax days.
anan_22 -
Here is a good article called “Transmission of Influenza: Implication for Control in Health Care Settings” It states on page 3:
“They showed that human influenza viruses could survive on a variety of surfaces at 35%−49% humidity and a temperature of 28%C. Both influenza A and B viruses were cultured from experimentally contaminated, nonporous surfaces, such as steel and plastic, up to 24–48 hours after inoculation, and from cloth, paper and tissues up to 8–12 hours after inoculation. However virusus could be recovered from hands for only 5 min and only if the hands were contaminated with a high viral titer. Viable virus could be transferred from nonporous surfaces to hands for 24 hours and from tissues to hands for 15 min.
I had thought that influenza virus would be viable for a longer period of time.
This is of course assuming that regular mail continues to run. My guess is if the pandemic gets that bad that only vital mail will be processed.
I know that bulk mail already gets put at the back of the line. I also know that in some locations, the postal service already has the ability to sanitize mail … not all locations though.
If anyone has contacts in the local postal services (national/international) find out if protocols are in place, will be put in place in the event of a pandemic, or are being created for a pandemic. Might prove enlightening.
You have too much time on your hands. What makes you think the mail will even be delivered? Does the post office know something we don’t about not getting infected? 40–50% no shows at work means the govt also. What mail carrier in his or her right mind is going to go out and go to work whan everybody else is told to stay at home.
How will you know if your mail is disinfected? Really disinfected?
Just dont take it out of the box, and go about your life with one less worry. Life can be kept very simple.
Just because your phone rings doesn’t mean you have to pick it up. When someone you don’t know knocks on your door, you don’t have to open it.
JV – at 11:51
“I had thought that influenza virus would be viable for a longer period of time.”
I’m pretty sure from what I’ve read only recently that it’s a lot longer than that. I’ll have to check that sometime. Thanks!
What makes you guys think that there will even BE any mail???!!! Or postal employees to sort, deliver it??? It the grid goes down the sorting machines wont work - will there be anybody to fix them? Will postal workers show up to work anyway?? I dont think so! The only mail we will get is email. . . for as long as the grid or pc batteries hold out - and the sender has likewise!
or gasoline to power the mail trucks?? Or airplanes flying for overseas mail? I dont think so kids!!
gharris-I have thought about it all, many times. I don’t know what is going to happen and neither do you. Just asking for some ideas. I could have done without yours.
I’d love nothing more than to stop receiving mail! I can barely keep up with it as is.
I agree with all. Keep it simple. In a pandemic, it’s not like anyone is going to be processing much of anything to begin with. We are going to be so busy maintaining our basic living conditions, how many of us are even going to be thinking about mail.
Retired ParamedicMI, You are sooo right about not answering the phone/door. I just cancelled my call waiting and voicemail, and life is so much more peaceful! Everyone who really needs to reach me knows I answer e-mail quickly. And my cell is available to the people who REALLY need to reach me 24/7.
I’ve given it some thought and like some of the ideas here, either for their brillance or their “make me chuckle” factor. I think the mail will be delivered for a time at least. Not everyone will be sick the first week, and many will go on about life as normal, because it’s “not in my town”. We don’t know when the bug is getting off the jet in which airport, and coming down our street. So mail delivery, UPS, Fedex, etc. will arrive at your door. I think we should be prudent, but not nuts. Pick your comfort zone and go for it. If the flu bites you anyway, you probably won’t know if it was the mail, the door handle you touched the day before, or the air someone sneezed in in the revolving door you went thru on Saturday. We should do our best, prepare for the worst and keep on living.
Kathy in FL: My guess is if the pandemic gets that bad that only vital mail will be processed.
So Kathy, that would mean that I would certainly be receiving my mastercard bill. Yet another reason not to even take the mail from the box! :-)
No mail, the safest mail… setup everything on line.
No wait a minute, folks. All of this discussion has merit. If there’s no mail, then there’s no problem in how to get it, is there? If/while there is, how to get at is safely is worth a few pixels in the inter-space and a few minutes of reading/writing time. If nothing else, the info is pertinent to other media of germ delivery (i.e., sharing info on how long germs live on various types of surfaces).
Another wild idea… Open the mail outside using your gloved hands. Have another person take a digital picture of it. Then you can read it inside using the camera.Just be certain that you take close-up snaps.
You need to to consider an alternative way of payment, if the power goes out for a long time, if you’ve set up your bills online.
Kathy in FL – at 13:16 This is of course assuming that regular mail continues to run. My guess is if the pandemic gets that bad that only vital mail will be processed. I know that bulk mail already gets put at the back of the line. I also know that in some locations, the postal service already has the ability to sanitize mail … not all locations though. If anyone has contacts in the local postal services (national/international) find out if protocols are in place, will be put in place in the event of a pandemic, or are being created for a pandemic. Might prove enlightening.
The French Government Plan against an Avian Flu Pandemic has three measures to be put into place with regard to mail, during phases 5b and 6:
Advertisers don’t advertise when it’s hard for people to buy, so 80% of the mail won’t be generated after a few weeks. One should get as many of their bills to pay online. If the Internet is down, the clerks in accounts receivable won’t be on the job anyway.
If you are comfortable with on line banking you can set up automatic payments delivered to your creditors on an assigned day.
gasoline… I will just desinfect the hell out of it, right there in the mailbox, its only bills anyway >:D (evil grin)
As noname has just said 18.00 you can get set uos from your bank or direct debits for your bills.gas electric water telephone and credit cards you can either phone or use automated pay or on line facilities on secure sites we can in uk so presume that will go for you all.Just write a list get sorted out with everything then stay away from it making sure nothing falls on your hallway carpet or in america were outside boxes why not just leave it or dispose when safe use your masks and glove and box the lot. just a thought.
on the mail subject if you get newspapers delivered cancel magazines etc as people get sick quick they may be ill at work.In uk papers sometimes get thrown in or at least directly posted.
Set your mailbox on fire with the mail in it. In the US destroying mail or a mailbox (even if you paid for it) is a felony. That way the mail is disinfected, the prep bills are all destroyed, and you get to go to feferal prison where it is now the Govt’s resposibility to make sure you have Tamiflu.
You’re joking- the prisoner’s are taking all the tamiflu?!!
If the electricity/gas is working, put the mail in a metal baking pan big enough to hold it and put it in a 160 degree (F) oven for 30 minutes. Keep paper away from flame/heating element. The heat will kill the virus and not burn the mail. (I assume the “extra” 20 degrees over the 140 needed to kill H5N1 will take care of incomplete heat transfer.) No jail and you can read your bills and credit card adverts. If the electricity is not working, will we be getting mail?
I finally found the reference for how long the H5N1 virus can survive in the environment. The answer is - very long.
Highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza outbreaks in poultry and in humans: Food safety implications
“The virus can survive in faeces for at least 35 days at low temperature (4°C); while at 37°C, viruses could survive for 6 days in stability tests on faecal samples in studies using H5N1 viruses circulating during 2004. Avian influenza viruses can also survive on surfaces, such as those within the poultry house environment, for several weeks.”
Closed to maintain Forum speed.