From Flu Wiki 2

Forum: OT Killer Staph Infections Spread in LA

22 October 2006

Fiddlerdave – at 15:22

This resistant, virulent staff initially developed in hospitals, has spread to the jail, homeless, and needle using populations, and now is spreading to fire, health and support workers and their familes, and who knows where else because it is not a reportable disease. Additionally, denial is common from officials to avoid costs or action. If you have read Laurie Garrett’s The Coming Plague, this situation becomes truly terrifying. This article from the LaWeekly has graphic pictures, if you are on a diet, read it before lunch.
http://tinyurl.com/ylg8tl

KimTat 16:05

ick!

mj – at 16:10

What KimT said. Time to place an order for Manuka Honey.

Spirit in the Wind – at 17:09

I didn’t have this, but I did have celluitis a couple of times. That in itself darn near killed me, and talk about PAIN! It’s less painful to give birth after 17 hours of pushing.

On the fence and leaning – at 17:35

Time for a staphwiki? That was GROSS~!

cactus – at 17:40
   It`s very,very common to see folks present to the Er with some other complaint, and also have a MRSA infection.And almost every nursing home resident in my neck of the woods seems positive,too.Makes for many people in isolation when admitted to inpatient care.

 I`ve read somewhere that Oil of Oregano works almost as well as Vanco.Don`t see it used in hospitals,of course.
crfullmoon – at 17:44

Maybe this could be an added motivation for the public to wash their hands?

:-/

cactus – at 17:45
  And, make sure that their caregivers (docs or nursing staff) wash,or use gel before every patient.
crfullmoon – at 17:50

Does that sort of MRSA remain a danger when processing fatalities? Haven’t seen anything about that possible complication in what few pandemic influenza plans mention how to handle fatality surges.

cactus – at 17:53
  Wear gloves. I really don`t know, but if lesions are weeping, I would think that it`s transmissable for a period of time.
crfullmoon – at 17:57

From the linked article: …”The bacterium that transmits staph can be passed through touch, shared surfaces and personal items like razors or towels. It can stay on clothes or bedding for five days”…

Yug.

InKyat 18:04

Gagadocious. Manuka Honey is now en route to my house.

Newsie – at 18:11

Am I missing a bird flu connection here?

MAV in Colorado – at 18:29

Standard isolation procedures. Contact precautions (gloves and gowns) would be all that is needed. Airborn precautions (mask and splash eyewear) if open wounds or invasive procedures.

crfullmoon – at 18:35

(Newsie, the “OT” in the thread title does mean “Off Topic”.)

MAV in Colorado, it still sounds like too many surfaces/objects get contaminated.

Jody – at 18:48

What is manuka honey?

crfullmoon – at 18:56

(Honey from “manuka” flowers, I s’pose…)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leptospermum_scoparium

(Oh -“tea tree” I’ve heard of “tea tree”.)

Wikipedia, monofloral honey: …”While all honeys have some medicinal value, manuka honey from New Zealand has been shown to have higher antibacterial activity than other tested honeys”…

MAV in Colorado – at 19:00

thats why re: fatalities from any cause….. bag ‘em up quick. In a hospital an MRSA patients room is “terminally” cleaned. That includes walls, floors, vents etc with proper disinfectants.

CR- it’s not too many, it’s just ALL surfaces/objects! If it were easy it wouldn’t be a problem.

Jody – at 19:18

Actually, I don’t see this as particularly off-topic. As mentioned, everyone who goes into a hospital is contaminated with these bugs. If we run out of heavy duty disinfectants, then what are we going to do---start boiling the face cloths? (Actually, I have often thought that wouldn’t be a bad idea in the normal course of things….however inconvenient.) This is where our “collateral death” is going to be! Since I come home every day probably covered head to toe in these noxious ickies, I should already have a decontamination procedure at the front door. That would give me good practice.

Jody – at 19:24

MAV in Colorado: You are so right, but we don’t treat it that way! Protocol here (Ontario)is that contact precautions are used only when dealing with the area that has swabbed positive, e.g. nares, whatever. Patients are supposed to wash their hands before leaving their rooms. It is considered cruel to keep people in isolation as long as it takes to “cure” them. Plus their lengths of stay tend to be over the national average! Used to be, we were told MRSA could exist on normal healthy people without negative effect. Not so anymore.

InKyat 20:42

When I ordered a big bottle of Technu online in order to contend with regular exposure to poison ivy in my back yard, I got a brochure in the box with my order. It was for StaphAseptic, a first aid bactericide gel that is supposed to kill 99.9% of MRSA. Sounds useful. But what can be used to disinfect surfaces or laundry?

Fiddlerdave – at 20:49

I see this infection spread being handled similarly to bird flu. There is a tremendous financial disincentive to authorities to admit to its seriousness or even existence. Workmans comp is obviously big on their minds, as well as the obvious prime but politically unpopular solution of spending money to give medical care to unpopular segments of society. Plus the reactions to “supporting negative behaviors” by doing things like allowing people to buy, or giving away clean needles for drug use. To me, it illustrated many of our major issues with preparations and prevention have as much or more to do with societal attitudes and reactions towards disease, especially ones stigmatized due to a particular class being the most noticeable victim. (Many middle or upper class could be getting this, but its not reportable and most would never mention it). So, a deadly microbe is allowed to spread from its early containable stage to broad presence to become “part of the landscape” (I see it swiftly becoming less treatable than the little it is now!). Many cities here in Calif absolutely refuse to allow clean needle exchanges, fight viciously against medical care for the poor and indigent even if its not paid for by government taxes, hospitals don’t change the practices that bred the original strain, and on and on. Just as people and governments minimize and ignore BF for parochial reasons (which I believe is EXTREMELY WIDESPREAD, and why I expect the pandemic soon), we should realize solutions are not only technical and scientific in nature. And yes, wash your hands! This is here, now, across the country.

Fiddlerdave – at 20:54

By EXTREMELY WIDESPREAD, I mean the acts of actively ignoring signs of H5N1 - this means a place where it emerges in efficient H2H form, it may well be slow to detect - if all the chickens didn’t die, “it can’t be H5N1 in the people, could it?”

beehiver – at 22:08

A friend’s mother-in-law died in an Arkansas ICU after catching a MRSA staph infection there. Evidently some of the ICU staff was quite lazy about performing appropriate clean technique, including washing hands between patients. It was reported that many of the people that went into that ICU never made it out because of MRSA. Scary.

anonymous – at 22:58

I’ve not posted for quite some time but I have been here every day, checking things out. I spent the summer struggling with illness and was incorrectly diagnosed until I passed it to my daughter and the peds doc recognized it as MRSA.

My understanding is that none of the meds can get rid of MRSA once you have it—it just suppresses an outbreak—kind of like having cold sores.

A friend recommended reading a book on wild oregano and I have been taking it for a few months. I did not put my daughter on it and she had another outbreak and had to go on antibiotics again. I put her on the oregano at the same time and within three days her external infection disappeared. The antibiotic worked much faster with the addition of the oregano. Now, I recently ran out of it and within four days I began feeling the pain of an outbreak in the previous areas I had had the external infection. I got myself back on the oregano without contacting my doctor and the symptoms went away within three days. The author of the book claims that wild oregano can actually CURE someone of any staph infection but I don’t know how long it would take. Obviously, I am not cured yet, neither is my daughter. However, taking the wild oregano seems to really help. I haven’t been as sick as I was either.

It was also recommended to have a “bleach pen” like you can use nowadays for spots on clothing, to use on any locations where you have open skin, like a scrape or hangnail. My infection manifests itself in my cuticles and under my arms. I’ve had four cesareans, one natural birth and several surgeries, but I have experienced the pain that these “sores” create. It’s enough to make you crazy. I have become even more concerned and cautious about my kids and my friends and family using extreme sanitary precautions.

mother of five – at 23:08

Sorry, I haven’t posted in so long, I am anonymous again—I am mother of five :)

ICP – at 23:11

MRSA has been shown to live for hours on the hands of a health care worker and for days on equipment such as stethescopes, thermometers, etc.

Once a person develops an infection with MRSA, that bacteria then becomes a part of their normal bacteria and is most commonly found in the nose and can be shed at times even after the infection is cleared. The bacteria is there intermittently, so if you culture them today, test results may be negative. But next week, culture them again and it is positive. That is why once an infection has been present, diligent hand washing and hygiene practices are so important and good patient/family teaching is imperative to prevent future infections in these patients and in their susceptible family members. Regardless of whether a current infection is present or not.

Many MRSA infections today are being misdiagnosed in ERs because the bacteria is changing so that instead of a typical open, draining sore, it fequently presents as a blister that appears to be a spiderbite and is being mistaken for the brown recluse spider and proper early and aggressive treatment for the MRSA bacteria is not being done and no culture taken until the infection spreads.

Poor communications with patients/families is what helped lead to such community-acquired infections where this bug used to be one that was most commonly found in patients with long term hospital stays, many medical tubings, mulitple hospitalizations or living in long term care. Just as important is diligent hand hygiene and proper infection control practices and education for health care workers and physicians and infection control professionals who actually monitor and reinforce these practices to health care workers who are seen NOT doing it.

When you are in a hospital, clinic or phyisican office and you see the nurse, physician or other medical personnel NOT washing hands, cleaning equipment to be used on you, etc. remind them to do so. Health care is a business and you are a customer. You deserve quality health care that does not put you at risk for infections that are not necessary.

cactus – at 23:12

mother of five

Ahha! It was you with the oil of oregano. Thanks ! I told a friend about it, and it has relieved most of his problems with MRSA.

23 October 2006

Leo7 – at 02:05

Everyone blames HCWs for the spread but that is the symptom. It grew from inappropriate use of antibiotics, period, for non existant bacteria infections. Thank you baby boomers. A nurse I work with said in the 80′s they would do nasal swabs of HCW’s once a patient was identified. The hospital wouldn’t tell HCW’s they were clear , but they did identify some carriers. My hospital put four people out on medical leave with pay—they got oral meds, IV meds, they jammed Neosporin up their nose—they didn’t clear after a year. The hospital couldn’t afford this indefinetely and they were let go. Soon they quit testing—I’ve never been tested for example. These carriers found work at other places because of confidentiality with disease can’t be reported. People have to eat. If you are still a nail biter—you will eventually pick this up. I’m glad to know about oil of oregano, there are lots of folks who need help.

EnoughAlreadyat 02:19

Thank you baby boomers

that’s a pretty stupid comment

Fiddlerdave – at 02:36

I will comment on one thought I have with bacterial resistance issues. Yes, overuse of antibiotics in people has helped created resistant microbes in them. However, the constant use of anibiotics BY THE TON in farm animals, chickens, beef, pork, to gain a small (and profitable) increased weight gain remains, to me, a likely large source of antibiotic resistant microbes, including MSRAs. This practice was banned years ago in Europe and other places, but the farm lobby here stopped the implementation of a ban on this practice. It is slowly being discouraged, but should be stopped immediately. The total annual cost to a consumer was estimated to be $30 if the practice was stopped. Please support efforts to stop this practice, by law and by buying meats not using this practice. This does not mean they can’t use antibiotics appropriately for animal illness.

Leo7 – at 02:48

Enough Already:

We got antiboiotics available for prescription just as they were being born, and we’re losing them just when the tip of the boomers are checking out. Sorry, if it’s a sore spot for you.

Fiddlerdave – at 03:25

BTW, one thing that reduced my antibiotic use, I have found the over-the-counter topical antibiotic ointment to be extremely effective on boils or cyst-like infections that are even deep inside below the skin, with no surface opening or even barely visible redness (but a big mass inside). I, one in a while, got antibiotics given by the doctor to deal with them when it got bad, but the topical has eliminated general antibiotics for that use. A number of tubes are in my preps. Costco has 2-packs at a good price.

MAV in Colorado – at 04:42

Fiddler- hmmm, I wouldn’t have really condsidered ointments for closed lessions. I have had very good success “painting” closed lessions with Betadine solution (not the scrub which has added detergents). There is obviously some local absorption that takes place. Works very well for tinea (fungal) infections (athletes foot, jock itch, ringworm etc). Seems to dry them up and clear in a day or two. Your right though, a course of oral antibiotic for a boil sounds like overkill unless it were to develop into a cellulitis. Unfortunatelly, for many years it has been standard thoughtless practice to handout Rx’s. Nature has a way of keeping balance.

crfullmoon – at 06:34

Ok- this absolutely should be part of current community education and prevention efforts; and, what happens during a pandemic when all patients possible are discharged (and, cleaning staff and supplies may get disrupted), some plans say release certain classes of prisoners from custody, and what’s going to happen when current efforts to work with infected homeless/drug users, ect, are disrupted “by illness or quarantine”? What’s going to happen during disruption at other institutional care facilities, where MRSA/”flesh-eating” bacteria is also a factor?

“Public pandemic forums” need to start hearing questions about plans for other problems during pandemic,

like MRSA, drug addicts, domestic violence, care of orphans, getting pantries stocked now for months, stockpiling meds for those that rely on them now, keeping the power grid up, fuel, staff, and spare parts for keeping roads passable in snowy parts of the country, all the details of mass fatality plans… we’ve (luckily) had the past 12 months communities could have been brainstorming like the Flu Wiki does, if authorities had wanted to bring the community to the table.

crfullmoon – at 07:27

(I forgot; and what about XDR TB? The public needs to know and care about health issues more than they do; maybe they’d follow health advice if they studied how amazing it is how our bodies work in the first place…some of the public takes better care of their cars than themselves.)

Malachi – at 09:39

omg…when I first read about this crud a few months ago I thought geez I spent alot of time in the hospital when my dad was sick.Oh I hope I didn’t get this.Thanks for the clear and graphic photos to let me know I did not get this…Excuse me while I go barf.

Fiddlerdave – at 14:23

MAV, I have been amazed, too. But in my case, it has been absolutely effective, and for a friend as well. It was only on a whim to have initially applied topical cream to a subsurface lump that I know eventually may come to a surface “boil” but almost never open unless it is lanced - having an deep lump be gone in 2 days was amazing.

diana – at 14:43

I have cut my swimming down to once a week after I contracted a plantars wart on my foot. I didn’t go to the pool until I got rid of it. Now ,while the rules specifically state that noone with sores or skin infections should be in the pool, I have seen people, possibly with psoriasis (not contageous) that made me feel that not everyone cares about rules.I Doubt if chlorine is enough to stop some skin infections. Who knows what any of us avoid simply by having strong immune systems.

I’m-workin’-on-it – at 14:53

Malachi – at 09:39 How IS your dad doing? Home again now?? Hope you’re catching up on your rest?

johnO – at 14:55

I once caught a staph from a pool. Don’t know if it was under-chlorinated or what. But I see people at my gym in the jacuzzi with mysterious skin ailments. Since the first time I saw that, I’ve never gone back in. But it was scary to read how you can pick up staph in the locker rooms too. Just add that to the list of nasty things in the locker room. Ewwww

Kim – at 15:03

Diana, PLEASE I hope that everyone knows that psoriasis is NOT contagious, it is an autoimmune disease. Nasty looking skin does not equal contagion. In fact, one form of psoriasis can look alot like MRSA. http://www.psoriasis.org/about/psoriasis/guttate.php

diana – at 15:14

Kim. I think I know what psoriasis looks like, but there are any number of people who I think have other problems. I am not a dermatologist, but I get out of a hot tub, a. if it isn’t hot enough, b. if someone comes in with skin lesions.

Malachi – at 15:31

IWOI….Thanks my dad is great!!!!He has just got this loving life vibe about him like I have never seen in anyone.More appreciation of the small stuff.He and 2 of my sons walked across the mackinac bridge(5 miles) on labor day and made it back to central MI (3 hour drive) by 11:00 am.He has alot of energy for what he went thru.He loves hanging out at “Gildas house” cause they have all kinds of fun stuff to do for free!!!And sometimes he even goes to work ;) but only if he feels like it.

diana – at 15:32

Certainly I don’t say anything to someone with lesions. I don’t think most of us can differentiate between something that is contageous and something that isn’t. So it is sad that people might not be considerate of a person with a non contageous skin problem, but I personally think it is prudent to avoid close contact when you don’t know what you are dealing with. You don’t have to be obvious, just careful.

Madamspinner – at 15:43

Anyone have a mail-order address for the Oil of Oregano ?

cactus – at 15:47
  I`ve seen it at my local health food store.
anonymous – at 15:58
 I get mine from this place :wwwdotse1dotus. Can’t seem to figure out the tiny url thingy.Very fast service.
ICP – at 15:58

Leo: You are correct in that misuse of antibiotics lead to the development of MRSA, VRE and other resistant organisms. However, when an otherwise healthy patient with hip pain enters the hospital for a planned hip replacement surgery (Class I or “clean” surgical case) and stays 3 months with an infection that requires tubes in every orifice and on a ventilator, I think it is safe to say, health care workers had some accountability in the transmission of this bacteria.

Sit in any hospital or medical office and just watch how often the staff cleans their hands, stethescope, thermometer, and other close contact items over a shift. Culturing the electronic thermometer in a hospital is an eyeopener! The plastic tips get changed but all the patients breathe right onto the electronic box when the temp. is being taken!

Next time you go to the eye doctor and have a vision check, watch to see if they clean before/after, the machine you put forehead up against or the black metal/plastic cover that you hold and press against your eye to block the light to read the letters with one eye… I once saw an outbreak of “pink eye” from the eye doctor’s office. :>)

The organisms are harmful but it is the hosts and the carrier that makes them debilitating and deadly.

Fiddlerdave – at 16:17

CRFULLMOON is so grounded! “Public pandemic forums need to start hearing questions about plans for other problems during pandemic,”.//

  You are inspiring me.  I have been really burdened in my heart about care of orphans, of which there will be millions, and your comment makes me think there needs to be a plan, EVEN IF TERRIBLY IMPERFECT, for that, among all the others.  Even if it accomplishes nothing more than a place for all of us to not die alone. Off to look for inspiration and ideas. Thank you.
mother of five – at 23:21

Earlier in this thread someone asked for more info. re oil of oregano.

From my reading, I understand that some products claim to be wild oregano but are made from marjoram and it’s not as effective. The product must have “P73″ on it to know that it’s made from true wild oregano.

On the flipside—a friend told me that marjoram IS wild oregano……..? I am taking Oreganol capsules made by “North American Herb & Spice.” You can make that a dotcom address and find it on the internet. I just pick mine up at our local health food store though. :)

24 October 2006

stilearning – at 12:21

Fiddlerdave at 16:17 - Please stock extra supplies for the orphans whom you may choose to “adopt” at a moment’s notice. I have no faith that any community plans will be made for the most vulnerable among us.

31 October 2006

crfullmoon – at 10:05

Fiddlerdave, I’m “so grounded” that I’m no fun at parties and have no social life. (grounded is the kindest thing I’ve heard my pandemic preparedness focus called. haha) Don’t have as much to lose at this point by keeping trying to warn people, and know what I do have to lose, (other people may be able to believe “it” can’t happen to them).

If others in the community can start wanting to know “what’s going to happen if…” and take action, things will improve for my situation.

“Public pandemic forums” need to start hearing questions about plans for other problems during pandemic, and taking action together on the issues now.

Fiddlerdave – at 15:16

VRFullmoon: Indeed, I would suspect many here are “no fun at parties” but would be quite a comfort when the chips ar down. For a time, I was in a social circle that included a guy who prepped bodies at a funeral home, and frankly rather enjoyed the irreverent humor, and the comfort there was no comment I could make that he would consider a “downer”. It was always grist for his humor mill.

Texas Rose – at 17:01

“It grew from inappropriate use of antibiotics, period, for non existant bacteria infections. Thank you baby boomers.”

Overuse of antibiotics was being done before the ramifications were known and before boomers were old enough to influence anything.

anonymous – at 18:20

Overuse of battlefield antibiotics (upon first invention) in WWII was discussed as a potential problem by the original researchers / discoverers / inventors as early as 1944. They particularly detailed development of resistant bacteria if anti-biotics were applied widely to the civilian population’.

MRSA and XDR TB happen to be of interest to the media and are just the start of an increasing trend. Watch for the addition of dozens more to the list in the next 5 years, many of which will offer a potential fatal outcome.

NS1 – at 18:20

NS1 sometimes posts as anonymous.

01 November 2006

Leo7 – at 02:24

Well they have a vaccine in development for MRSA that was effective in mice. URL goes to New Scientist for article. http://tinyurl.com/onpa7

Leo7 – at 02:30

Sorry folks that wasn’t the site. Try this one for direct link. http://tinyurl.com/yghfcj

06 November 2006

Blue – at 13:00
 I have only read half the posts and will read the rest but, are we talking about this “Golden Staph.?”
 This is being talked about in Perth…so I am concerned also- a so called Superbug.
 We are led to believe it is very serious. 

 CA-MRSA I believe…Community Aquired MRSA??

 Well…maybe it’s time for the campaign?…”Wash your hands twice.”
Blue – at 13:03
 Oh- and stop biting your nails kids…

14 November 2006

DemFromCT - closed – at 21:51

will close due to Forum speed. Restart a new thread if needed.

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