We live in a condo so the only area I have to work with is INSIDE my unit or INSIDE the flue of my existing fireplace. We currently have a 35 year old pre-fab firebox and flue that was installed during construction. The flue is round if that matters to anyone. I have a fureplace surround that’s stone (real) with a 5″ hearth. I would LOVE to tear out the stone and hearth and replace with a zero height hearth area (flush with floor) and a wooden surround and mantle.
I would also like to install a WOOD burning insert. I know there are inserts that burn some sort of pellets, and if I could use BOTH that would be fine, but I must have something wood burning.
Let’s see, what else. I have cats so if the insert sticks outside the firebox, the type that you can set something on top of to cook, that might be a problem, unless there’s a way to cover up the top of the insert so that it’s not hot — do they make them with covers for that area that don’t get hot?? Probably not, so most likely I would need one that fit’s mostly flush with my opening.
I would LOVE to have a blower, but can I still use the insert to burn fires if the power is off, or does the blower also operate the flue damper or something, making it impossible to use if the power goes off?
Can you folks who have inserts please discuss with me the pros and cons with your type/brand so that I’ll have a better feel for how to shop for one of these things?
Can’t believe there’s NOone who knows somthing about these things…so I’m bumping! :-)
I don’t know anything about inserts. But I have a woodstove, which my cat touched once. Luckily when the stove wasn’t very hot, so the cat wasn’t hurt, but it was hot enough that the cat has never touched it again. He just curls up near the stove and sleeps all day.
Most of the people I know with woodstoves have cats, and I’ve never heard of any injuries (they tend to be surprised my cat was foolish enough to touch mine). But of course, that doesn’t mean that serious feline injury can’t happen, either through foolishness or an accident.
That’s good to know! :-) It’d be MY luck…..ouch!
My cats dont’ get close enough to get hurt. Although I did see my 6 month old kitten licking his paw and it felt a bit hotter than the others. I think he was trying to chase our old Siamese out from behind the stove and missed and got a surprise. They wake me up in the morning to make me add more logs to the stove so they can bask in its warmth.
Fireplace inserts are like car models, they change very fast and what one person has and uses on this list would be of little use to you. Find a store that sells just fireplaces and BBQ equipment (one sold in winter, one in summer so they can stay in business year round) and ASK lots and lots of questions. Prices can vary wildly and the exact same insert from store to store. Our woodstove (a hearthstone soapstone stove) cost nearly $2000, but was over $4000 once we had it installed. Those extras add up. An insert should be considerably cheaper, but you will have to have an installer come look at your setup up and they will have to take a look at your existing system to see what stove pipe you will need (sometimes they need to line it for safety) and if your floor can hold the extra weight. Some inserts can be quite heavy, some are pretty light. They do not burn pellets and wood. You will have to choose. The pellet stoves require electricity as they use a electric auger to drop the pellets into the burning area a few at a time, so it doesn’t work well for what we wikians are discussing here— independent heat. Will you have a place to store wood? It can really go through it, unless you are prepared to break up your neighbor’s chippendale dining room set in exchange for some soup and warmth? We put in a brand new high efficieny furnace along with adding central air to our old farmhouse a year ago. At the same time, we were also adding the woodstove. I will never be without independent heat sources again after living through several severe cold outages where we were the only ones in the neighborhood who didn’t have icicles forming INSIDE their houses. We happened to buy a house with a woodstove and we learned to use it. When the ice storms came, the electric went out and the stove was already heating our home. Neighbors would come to the door and say in shock, “ you have heat??? It’s so warm in there?!” We invited people in but they felt stupid and wouldn’t come in. Many had fireplaces or stoves but no wood or didn’t know how to use them or were AFRAID to light a fire. uh hmmmm.. whatever. They had huge hotel bills, we went on with life in our own home. After that I said I would never be without a wood stove. Fireplaces aren’t the same, waste heat and wood. Wood stoves take practice to get the hang of them, like training your spouse after you get married. But it is well worth the time. Wood heat also feels different than other forms of heat. Everyone I know who has an insert or stove prefers to use it than the furnace, even though they can well afford to use the furnace all winter. Jotul is a good brand, as is Vermont Castings. I don’t like my Hearthstove much, I preferred the Catalytic converter for more heat that I had with my Federal Airtight (now called Dutch West). Hope that helps some.
I didn’t proofread that real well, so if clarification is needed…please ask.
BTW: One of the items I would not live without its my large bellows that I picked up at a flea market for $3. It ain’t purty, but boy can it get that stove cooking! It’s about 20″ long, 16″ wide and the two sides of the bellows open up to about 12″ for some real air flow going over those coals when I am trying to get the fire started again or get it going from a cold start. We could use fire starters in our Federal Airtight, but we aren’t supposed to use any chemicals at all in the soapstone stove or it will clog the stones pores. So we can use plain newsprint (newspapers that aren’t shiny)for starting up a fire. Also, we bought a cheap $5 aluminum bucket to put the ashes/embers in when cleaning out the stove. BTW: Check out how easy it is to remove the ashes from the stove. I HATE the ash removal system on this new stove compared to my old stove. Makes a huge difference in the ease of continuing use. Now, I use a spider (in the housewares section- like a slotted spatula) to remove any hot embers and even the coal like pieces and set them aside in a metal pie pan for continued use. Then I used a large spoon to scoop out the ases into the metal bucket, then I dump the embers/coals back into the bottom of the stove, put a couple of rolls of newpaper on top, a couple of pieces of wood. I start the paper up with a long necked lighter, use the bellows to blow on the lightly until the embers, coals start glowing red, then use more air from the bellows till the heat from the embers/coals lights the pieces of wood on fire. Keep working with the bellows till it flaming big and bright, then close the door tightly and adjust the air intake down a bit. Air flow provided to your fire is an art form that you have to play with to find the sweet spot. That bellows is my true fire friend!!! Look on ebay for on old ugly big one!!
I have a fireplace insert. Burns wood. Has a fan, and an off switch if you choose not to use it. I have a cat, and she instintually knows enough not to hop on it when it’s going….. I have a Lopi brand, and have never been happier. It’s better to get a liner in your chimney because it makes it more efficient and easier for the “chimney sweep” to clean. I don’t burn Pine. Clean it once a year. Like Nemo said, check out fireplace stores, they make them in all different sizes, shapes and colors. Around $1,500 - $3,500. When you shop (on-line, if you wish) you will see that some come with blowers, some don’t. Some blowers are “optional”. I would recommend a blower, as you can turn them off if not needed. Mine has a glass door, and they sell the cleaner, which is a must. Couple sprays and wipe off all the soot.
Your cats will not get too close to your insert. The heat it throws when operating under normal circumstances will repel them. If you need a great place for bread dough to rise, however, you’re golden.
Check out the Napoleon 1401. It’s about the closest thing to zero clearance you’ll find as far as I know. We searched far and wide for something (stove or insert) that would work with our existing mantle and hearth. Napoleon 1401 required the least clearance of anything.
I’ve raved about this unit on many other threads. We are amply heating 1800+ s.f. with it. Our outside temps have been in the 20s and 30s at night and 40s and 50s daytime. We stoke it at night, wake to comfortable temps and coals in the a.m. Fire it up for a bit in the a.m., stoke it mid-morning and close it up until evening when temps start dropping again. The temps in the house have actually been much more consistent with this heat than with our FHW system.
Here’s a link to the Napoleon site: http://tinyurl.com/v2pac
The unit comes with gold or black door. Black is a little less money than gold. We prefer to avoid bling when it comes to our heat sources, so went with black, and it is very handsome.
Forgot to mention, the Napoleon 1401 does have a blower that is temperature sensitive (i.e., it kicks in when firebox gets to a certain minimum temp). The blower requires electricity so won’t work when power is out. However, if your fireplace is centrally located, the heat will diffuse along expected convection patterns even without the blower. The blower just gives it a little nudge.
The only thing I don’t love about our insert it is not top-loading, which makes loading a little awkward. I, for example, would not recommend this insert to my mother who has an inner ear problem and gets sick to her stomach when she bends down.
Hope I’m not monopolizing this thread!
One cleaning the glass door— I just had my installer come out to clean the chimney. I asked him about the best thing to use on the glass door to get it clean. He said to wad up a piece of newspaper, dip it in water, dip that then in ashes, and then do “wax on, wax off” (karate kid movie) on the glass. I tried it and BOY! does it work well and for free!! I was shocked. Don’t use too much water though. If it doesn’t want to do “wax off” wait a few seconds til it dries out a bit and then wipe the mess off. It comes WAY clean and took me about 3 minutes maximum to clean it clean, clean, shiny clean. Very shocked that it worked. Actually it makes sense. You get lye by running water through wood ashes, so doing this is basically making a soft scrub/lye cleaner that works wonders. I used it on my storm windows too and it worked just as well, better than using windex. So I don’t need to store as much windex for the year’s storage supply as I was going to.
That should be On cleaning the glass door…not one. sigh.
Commonground – at 18:19
Are you taking your insert with you when you move, Commonground? And have you ordered wood for you new house yet?
NEMO that answered a lot of my questions — thanks sooo much!
We’re on a slab & our chimney column is as well so I’m not worried about the weight. We have nearly a cord I think it is and wood is what I want to burn. We have a big rack that’s almost 8′long x 6′ high x 2′ wide with a cover, plus wood also stacked to the side that was left over from last year. It’s all up on a concrete pad my husband built this summer. We have pretty mild Winters, after all’s said and done. We’re in about 850 sq feet right now….with potential to build up to 1800sf. I could *probably* throw a log on & get a lot more efficiency from it than others who have a bigger space might get. I just want better efficiency & not have my heat going mainly up the chimney.
I want an insert to blow the heat out into the room, but also work if the power is out just as a regular fireplace but with less heat loss.
We have a place called Absco about 2 miles from my house that will sell these things and there’s another place about12 miles away, but I needed to have some idea of where to start the conversation!
Thanks!
I am not knowledgeable on the subject yet, but I’m actively out looking at inserts. The one I like best is a Morso 1710 model. Now I have a very rustic rebuilt antique log cabin, so it’s got to “look right”. This model heats with natural convection (optional fan) for about 1200 s.f.. Very efficient, cast iron construction (brochure says has great ability to absorb heat and slowly release it, long after the fire has gone out) with “self cleaning windows” and made by a company with 150 years experience. The price is about 1300.00, installation was $ 280.00 and the darn liner is $ 415.00 (they said liner is like a double liner with insulation in between-this prevents damage to fireplace flue due to extreme heat being produced, or some such). They have several models, and some inserts (not this one) I looked at actually have a small shelf on top that could be used for heating foods (about the width of a med. cast iron frying pan). I also looked at simple “parlor” style stoves with both top and back which wood heat about 800 s.f. and could use top for cooking (even came with cast iron water kettle). All in all, inserts are expensive, but now I have a local source, and when I get a little closer to “bug out” mode, I will immediately call (although I’ve even thought about pre-purchasing and storing). Hope this helps. good luck. Here is a site to check it out http://tinyurl.com/ymrrfk
That’s another good point I hadn’t thought about….how to load it — I DO have bellows (not as big as yours but I have ‘em that I got for free and we use it sometimes). Mainly we use a little cast iron lighter block with stone in it that we saturate with BBQ lighter fluid & light it up. I also save toilet paper and paper towel rolls all year long (can’t break myself of the habit) and we use them as fire starters, but I don’t fill them with lint from the dryer like some people do — just use ‘em like paper.
Edna, we have a pretty small firebox, so I’ll check out the site you posted — that may be just what we need! I want the biggest we can get just because I think we’d get more efficient use.
This is great—I knew some of you would have invaluable information!
We have a Quadrafire wood stove but they also make inserts. I did a fair amount of research before buying & Quadrafire makes some of the most efficient stoves on the market. Plus their “made in America” which is always a plus for me. BTW - we love our stove, it burns clean (as much the quality of the wood too) & the temp is easily adjusted. I just installed it a year ago and had a service come out and clean the chimney before using it this fall. The guy cleaning the chimney didn’t hardly believe me that we had used it all last winter & said that it hardly needed cleaning. Which ever of us gets home first in the afternoon builds a fire (around 4pm), then about 8pm when there is a nice bed of coals I fill it right up and that lasts all night. We cut our gas use by a full third last year and only used about 1 1/2 cords of wood. I figure if we used it for our sole heat source we would have used about 2 1/2 cords the whole winter.
When you go looking check the efficiency ratings of each model. Dont go to home depot or lowes go to a store that deals in woodstoves/fireplaces the knowledge base is well worth the price difference. Lopi is a high end top of the line woodstove co. Napolian is midrange [i have had a napolian for 10 years and its great] Im not familuar with quadrafire. Blowers are on most models, and no your cat wont get burned they are pretty smart.
Edna Mode - at 18:28 - No, my new home doesn’t have a fireplace. But I do have to get a new Wood Burning Stove, as they took the one they had. I was showing my husband last link the link to the Napoleon stoves you provided and we liked them. I checked out where they are sold, and, they are sold in the same place as the Lopi stoves in Laconia. So, when we go there, I will indeed check out the Napoleon. I will be takilng as much of my wood I we can in each trip to NH until we move. I managed to throw my cedar chips that my neighbor gave me from some job he was working on, and filled a whole metal trash can with them to bring with me. I’m going to try and bring all my kindling too. What a pain in the you know what to try and move wood, and kindling.
I did clean my glass with the newspaper and ashes for about 4 years, but when I got the spray, it was so much easier and it only takes a few sprites to clean. For me, it was so much easier. Thanks for providing the link Edna. Another thought is have them put a cap with wire mesh at the top of your chimney, if you get a liner put in. It keeps squirrels out. (I’ve only had 1 cup of coffee and it 5:30 AM EST)
We put in an insert when we moved in this house and it is the only heat we have for 3000 sqft spread over 3 levels. Ours does have a blower on the back. I don’t know the brand, but we bought it used for about $100 and it has a tree on the door. Our blower has an off, on, and a temp controlled postion. When the power goes out, hubby takes the door off and doesn’t let the fire get too big. He says he does it cause the blower motor can’t get that hot or it will burn up and not work. I’m not sure if that is correct or not. Anyone know?
I just did this all a few months ago. Convinced my parents to get a wood stove because they were sitting in a freezing house with their coats on all last winter. So after what I could find on here and online we went to several stove stores. I second going to a real stove store if only for their experience they have. Most stoves anymore are very efficient and clean burning to deal with CA requirements, they just make them all compliant. I would expect to spend at least 1K as a min for a “real” stove. We ended up spending 2K including installation because my mother insisted on getting a white stove (costs way more). Yeah I know, I couldn’t convince her otherwise. Anyway its from a company in norway I think called yodder(sp?) They have a huge house and it warms up most of the house nicely even with it being in a far end of the house. The chimney is a tube within a tube design and went right up the existing chimney. My advice after having to cut all the wood is even if you have to spend more money get a stove that takes the biggest logs you can find. A few inches is a big deal when you have to cut many cords of wood. It took 5 people 7 hours to split and stack 3.5 cords of wood with a rented splitter. We are all crippled today but at least we will stay warm.
Annoyed Max - Glad you got the stove, and cut the wood. We always say “we are broken” when we overwork ourselves!!! And those rare “do absolutely nothing days” we call “Throw Away Days”!!! I am having a Throw Away Day today, as a matter of fact.
Max, good for you for pleasing your mom with a white stove! Sometimes looks are worth it & the older we get the truer the statement!
I’ll bet you’re worn out today — hope you and Commonground enjoy the day no matter the aches and pains!
And to all, I really appreciate this information!
I have a fireplace insert which came with the house we bought back in 1989.It had a blower and worked very well but did not last long.We replaced the blower and the same thig happened.Our propane heater also had a blower which helped but again it lasted only a short time.Apparently the blower motors on these particular devices do not tolerate high heat for long.Does anyone have any suggestions as to what to do about this problem?
I think Napoleon and Vermont Castings are made by the same company?? We have Vermont Castings parlour stove in the kitchen - has a griddle top so I can cook on it if need be. We also have 2 kitties and they do not jump on it, even in summer - they do like to sit near it tho for warmth in winter. Vermont Castings (and Lee Valley Tools) have a fan gadget that works by convection - so it moves the warm air without electricity - The VC is a great thing in the kitchen. In the livingroom we used the old chimney (built in 1835!!)but installed a flexible stainless steel liner - looks kinda like a dryer vent, but stainless steel with an inexpensive airtight firebox insert from local hardware store - because the firebox was actually quite small on the original fireplace we had trouble finding one that would fit into the volume of the opening - i.e. some were too ‘tall’ or wide. It has an electric fan which comes on automatically - but I dont really think it is that necessary - the warmth seems to flow out quite well even when it isnt on. (the noise of the fan bothers me if I am reading or watching tv so I often turn it off) Our neighbour has a pellet stove and it is VERY loud, plus the electric part would make it useless if the power goes out - and it is UGLY!!!! I wouldnt want it in my livingroom for aesthetic reasons! We use these two stoves to heat the entire house (1500 sq.ft) all Canadian winter with temps sometimes 40 below zero celsius!! We are quite comfy with them, but admit we also wear our LLBean longjohns as well!!!
Commonground – at 05:36
We got our insert from Stove Barn in Concord. Not sure if they work up in Laconia, but they probably do. They offered the best prices locally that I found. You can order the Napoleon’s off the Web, but I was too chicken. Wanted to have a face I could get in should anything go wrong.
If you go to the Stove Barn, just beware. It looks like hell from the outside, but the people are very knowledgable and the products they sell are solid. This is the second install they’ve done for us, and they are very good people. Maryanne and Tom are very affable and easy to talk with. Butch doesn’t have the same velvet people skills (sometimes comes off as negative), but ultimately, everything he has told us has proven correct and saved us lots of hassle and money.
Wow that is great Edna Mode. Concord is only about 30 or so minutes away. Thank you so much. We may be going there sometime this week, have to go back up for a few details.
Edna Mode, I went to copy the directions, and it mentions its behind the Mattress Shop. Have you ever done business there? Need to purchase some mattresses……..
gharris, you’re making me cold just READING bout your cold weather!
I know there are ‘silent’ blowers now, but I’m not sure what models OR whether the claims are real. I’ll put on my list to ask about how to keep the motor cooler so it won’t burn up.
I’m-workin’-on-it - at 11:41, my Lopi has a fan, can turn from high to low, and I don’t find it loud at all? My stove is 7 years old.
is the “concrete” or briks used of the heavy type, or maybe its stone? If its heavy its good, it will store heath during the night. If its light weight material, get rid of it exept the part that is used as insualtaion against wood wall etc.
will it with a insert have a channel of air from below that sucks in cold air, heaths it and sirkulates it out in the room? That will be good. Fireplaces are bad because the lack of doors (that make the airflow into the chimney to quick, with poor fulel economy and heath output. And litte heathed air that is able to sirkulate to heath the room.
Tha last negative for fireplaces (with inserts also) is the lack of possibility to cook on it. (the cast iron casserolls can be used, but..
If you get a wood oven or a insert, be aware of the new techonlogy that is more clean burning. they uses a kind of katalysastor that makes the burning process more eficient and less local poluting (problem for ashmatichs etc) This ovens are not more expensive.
I will recomned the norwgian brand Jøtul, they are old and reliable buisniss, and theire european design catalog is realy good. Probably no problem to order via amerikan resellers. The smallest classic and cheap woodstove is essentilay anything you would need in a house. But larger ovens with some stones will store heath giving a more leveled temperature during the day and night.
There is also classic kitchen stoves awailible that you can both bake and cook with. Perfect as a “of the grid oven”
Ovens that combines pellets and wood is hard to get.. I beliwe pellets will be the preferd fuel for the future. And they can easly be made to keep running with a solarcell 12v as backup in blackouts.
http://www.jotul.com/Content/SiteCommon/StartPage____1978.aspx
LOL yodder apparently is spelled jotel, go figure. As far as fans there are two types you can buy that dont use electricity. One uses a thermocouple to make its own electricity to move the air and the other uses a small piston “thingy” that also uses the heat from the stove to move a fan at like 300CFM thats pretty fast. If you google wood stove fans they will come up all over the place.
Commonground – at 11:40 Edna Mode, I went to copy the directions, and it mentions its behind the Mattress Shop. Have you ever done business there? Need to purchase some mattresses.
How very odd that you should ask. I hate all our mattresses, and was just talking to my dear daughter about getting new ones. We have purchased from that mattress shop. Mostly they carry junk. Affordable junk, but junk. I would recommend you check out Jordan’s Furniture for mattresses (Southern NH) to get the lowdown on different bedding then compare their prices to other places. Jordan’s is very competitively priced, though. Plus, free delivery I believe.
Be really careful when you go to the Stove Barn. The intersection is a nightmare thanks to poor city planning and a very poorly placed divider.
I don’t want to highjack the thread, but if you need tips on vendors, etc., you can e-mail me at emode AT nhpandemicplanner DOT com. I’m actually originally from Laconia and have lived in and around the Lakes Region all my life. If you need it, I can probably help you find it.
Hi all, we have a vermont castings fireplace insert that works well. It was a nightmare for the installer because it came in about 2,000 pieces, spread out all over the lawn when it first came. AND he had never installed one of these before (he had lots of experience with regular wood stoves tho). The install ran a lot of $$ as you might imagine.
It has a catalytic thing that limits what we can burn to wood only. No logs made of rolled up newspapers. It also has a blower that I haven’t used. Will try it this year.
We had a liner installed inside the chimney stack.
Other comments:
The opening to the inside is a little small, even tho we squeezed the large size insert into the space. It would be tough to fit a small dutch oven in there but I will try. Big logs are good but make sure they will fit in your unit.
The cast-iron top heats up very slowly. I don’t think it’s ever been hot enough to boil water, but have only used it for a few hours, maximum, not as a main heat source.
I don’t have a bellows, but want one for the fireplace and also especially for the grill because I blow myself dizzy getting it lit.
Maybe you already have one for your fireplace, but ensure there’s something on top of the chimney to keep birds out. Learned this the hard way. :)
blackbird - at 15:15 - Thanks for the reminder about putting a Dutch Oven inside. I had forgotten all about that. I’ll make sure I look for a decent interior for my new wood burning stove. I was going to use trivets for the top of my fireplace insert for cooking. Mine gets hot enough to boil water, even with a trivet.
Commonground - the dutch oven will fit, it’s the FIRE + dutch oven that’s tricky. :-)
will close due to Forum speed. Restart a new thread if needed.