Rather than buy Bleach, which can degrade rather quickly, I’d like to buy something granular.
I thought I read where Pool Shock was good, but the one I bought today, isn’t Calcium Hypochorite….I think it’s Sodium Dichloro-s-Triazinetrione.
Can some one tell me:
1. Is Sodium Dichloro-s-Triazinetrione safe to use..and if so, some mixing guidelines? 2. A good place to get Calcium Hypochorite in granular form (but not the $100 bucket).
Thanks in advance
Patch..read this thread http://tinyurl.com/gsele
and Google brought up this http://tinyurl.com/nvppl be safe
Patch: stay with calcium hypochlorite. You don’t want to be using sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione and 20 years from now somebody goes “ooops”
Check WalMart. They have or used to have a 5 lb container of calcium hypochlorite Pool Shock. Regardless, you want nothing but calcium hypochlorite.
Another source, which comes in 6 one pound bags is: http://tinyurl.com/q822n
FYI: all this and more will be in my (free and not selling anything) comprehensive water report (80 or so pages). Send me an e-mail if you want a copy. I should have it done in a week.
pfwag@lycos.com
PS: Buy the chlorine test strips too. You need to be able to verify for residual chlorine. Ideally, you wnat test strips that go down to 1ppm which is the lower end for a swimming pool and upper end for drinking water.
Can I also suggest that folks try their local swimming pool stores for calcium hypochlorite (won’t be as cheap as Walmart, but with summer winding down (???) Walmart will soon no longer be carrying it; and I realize that not all towns will have a swimming pool supply store). Also, one can buy a pool test kit that utilizes a liquid reagent to test chlorine levels. I’m not sure of the price difference between the strips and liquid reagent, but one might be more available than the other.
Has anyone used the pro-lab home water testing kits? I’m trying to determine the extent to which I can use my sump pump water. Since it flows year round I figure why not put it to good use. I got one test for insecticides and one for bacteria. The insectide test is a quick 10 minute test. Mine came back negative. The bacteria test has to cook for 48 hours and I had not colonies at all on my petri dish. Would that be considered a negative or a failure? And I did check, the ph is very low at 6.8 the alkalinity is at 120.
Has anyone else planned on using sump pump water, either for potable or nonpotable needs?
I have a real question, and hopefully those in the know will be able to answer it.
My Dad used to tell me that when he was growing up in the Midwest (in Oklahoma..he was born in 1929), during the dust-bowl years the local grocers used to drop a silver dollar into the rain barrel to keep the water from becoming “dirty”. He said that his father used to do the same thing in a rain barrel (I guess about 30 gallons). Obviously, these were “Silver Dollars, pre-1964 US$.
My question is this: does silver (not colloidal silver, but pure silver) keep water from getting “rancid”? I’ve often thought about this as a way to keep water “potable”, but never really followed up on it.
Does anybody have any knowledge of this, or heard of anything like this? I’ve checked urban legend websites and haven’t found anything…
By today’s definition, he was making colloidal silver. Same reason silver is used for water filters in the space station, various commercial water filters, and as coatings on lavatory fixtures. Even door knobs.
Bronco Bill, here are some intereting websites about using silver coins in water barrels (and using silver for other germ-killing uses as well)…
http://www.doulton.ca/silver.html
a washing machine that emits silver particles http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/01/every_dirty_loa.php
pfwag – at 00:15 and Kim – at 00:22 --- I’ll be damned! Dad was right. Thanks…
But a silver-emitting washing machine? Wow!!!
Now, my next question, since I’m not one of the Hunt brothers who own pure silver…are silver and Sterling silver the same thing?
Here’s the difference between sterling silver and pure silver
Thanks for the link, Kim. The history is awesome. Turns out that the Sterling Siverware that I inherited from my Mom came from the Easterling Silver Co. way back in 1955. I may have a little treasure here…
Will the granular calcium hypochlorite also be usable as a disinfectant when cleaning? It’s my understanding that you mix the granules with water to make bleach which is then used to purify water. Would it also be useable and effective for cleaning and disinfecting or for laundry?
Genoa at 01:50, sure it can be used for cleaning/disinfecting/laundry. Just make sure you have it diluted down to approximately a 5.25% solution of chlorine, then use just as you would bottled Clorox or generic bottled bleach (someone else will have to give you a formula for doing this… just thinking about algebraic equations makes my head hurt :-)
BTW, I’m not completely sure of the reason for this, but when mixing up a bleach solution like this, be sure you always add the bleach (calcium hypochlorite) to water, NOT pour water into the powdered calcium hypochlorite. I have a swimming pool, and every pool chemical package I’ve ever seen has a clear warning about doing so.
Kim- because it is a danger to inhale it, if water is added it will most likley send up dust http://tinyurl.com/oov7l handle it carefully
BB: Dad was usually right. We just have to become dads to realize it.
From my Water Report:
Calcium Hypochlorite
Should you want a lot of chlorine based product, or want some that will not go bad any where near as fast, get dry, granular calcium hypochlorite [Ca(ClO)2]. You should be able to get it from nearly any swimming pool (http://tinyurl.com/fad9c) or spa provider or a specialty chemical house. Swimming pool chemical providers often sell it labeled as HTH (for “high-test hypochlorite”) or “pool shock.” Make sure you are getting pure calcium hypochlorite with nothing else added, i.e. no anti-fungals or clarifiers, etc.
Pure calcium hypochlorite provides a minimum of 65% available chlorine. Calcium Hypochlorite is not hygroscopic (does not attract water), is practically clear in a water solution, and is a stable chlorine carrier. It is rarely available in small quantities so transfer it into smaller 1 lb or less amount plastic containers with plastic lids that can be tightly sealed.
BE SURE TO CAREFULLY READ AND FOLLOW ALL HANDLING DIRECTIONS AND HEED ALL WARNINGS. It is always a good idea to be using calcium hypochlorite in an EXTREMELY well ventilated area, (i.e.OUTSIDE!). If calcium hypochlorite becomes contaminated by foreign substances it can cause combustion. Do not breathe the dust or get it in your eyes. This stuff is not Play Dough. Also see: OSHA Hazard Information Bulletin
For granular calcium hypochlorite, 1oz = 50ml = 10.1 teaspoons
To treat clear raw water with 65–70% calcium hypochlorite there are a couple of ways to do it. If you want to directly treat the water with calcium hypochlorite use the following:
1 Gallon: add one grain, about the size of the period at the end of this sentence. 55 Gallons: add 1/8 teaspoon for a ~5ppm solution. 400 Gallons: add 1 level teaspoon for a ~5ppm solution.
To make a 5% chlorine solution to be able to use the drop method for disinfecting water, add and dissolve add ½ teaspoon of 65–70% calcium hypochlorite to ¾ cup of water. This will decay at the same rate of purchased 5.25% bleach so don’t make more than you will use in a fairly short time.
Here is a detailed conversion chart(http://tinyurl.com/j47n6) for using calcium hypochlorite at various concentrations and water quantities. Remember, you want a residual, after treating, concentration of about 0.5 ppm so get some pdp test material to be sure.
Get a plastic 1/2 teaspoon and small 1 cup to 1 pint plastic bottle pre-marked with a 3/4 cup level and store with your calcium hypochlorite. NOTE: the bottle must not have a metal lid.
Advantages • Extended shelf life. Providing it is kept dry, cool and in an airtight container, it may be stored for at least 5 years with minimal degradation. Pdp testing will allow its use for far longer. If you want to keep chlorine in larger quantities or for a long time, this is the item to store. • Very concentrated: 1 pound of 65% calcium chloride will treat about 65,000 gallons of water at an initial 5 ppm concentration. • Cheap.
Disadvantages • You usually have to buy a lot of it. Typically 5 pounds minimum. • In its concentrated form the stuff is dangerous so be sure to read all the safety warnings and handling precautions and use with the utmost care. • It is highly oxidizing so do NOT store concentrated calcium hypochlorite in your house.
There are more links in the original. I added the important ones but it is too much trouble to back add them all.
bump - more info on calcium hypochorite for other thread
Does anybody want any more info on specific water treatment issues, chemicals, filters etc? If so let me know and I’ll post the section from my water report, like the part on calcium hypochlorite above. Some sections have many dozens of links which I would have to back add for posting on FW (too much work) so if you want a lot of info send me an e-mail (listed in the Profiles) to get the whole report. If not, I’ll drop off this thread as the action is over on the other FW thread http://tinyurl.com/mku2t
Are there any alternatives to using bleach or calcium hypochlorite to purify my drinking water? I just don’t like the idea of bleaching my water and then drinking it. The calcium hypochlorite stuff is too complicated to use and I won’t need to purify 325,000 gallons of water.
“Pdp testing will allow its use for far longer”
Showing my ignorance here, but what is Pdp testing?
PS … I found a reference to DPD test tabs at the website you listed for calcium hypochlorite. Is that what you mean? How is it used and what does it tell about the water?
Wondering - There are alternatives but if you are on an a municipal water system in the USA most likely you have some chlorine in your existing drinking water. While there are different types of chlorine compounds, the end result is chlorine in the water. Making a complex subject very short, basically almost all drinking water sources are contaminated with pathogens. Some of the stuff that is in the water will cause you to pause before drinking the water coming out of your tap. Mistakes happen. In any case, to purify raw water for drinking, you need to filter out some things, like cryptosporidium, which are very hard to kill, and then kill the others that are very hard to filter.
The more common chemicals used to kill bacteria and virus for emergency applications are sodium hypochlorite (i.e. Clorox bleach), calcium hypochlorite, chlorine dioxide, and iodine. Other treatment methods to kill pathogens include heat pastuerization, UV, hydrogen peroxide, and ozone.
If you don’t want to use bleach and don’t want to mess with diluting calcium hypochlorite, get two part chlorine dioxide or most any of the ready to use water purification chemicals sold in camping stores. And have a way to filter out the cryptosporidium which is in nearly all surface waters. (NOTE: chlorine dioxide is about the only drinkable chemcal that has any chance of killing cryptosporidium.)
See the FW thread Water Filter Recommendations http://tinyurl.com/mku2t for more info.
Genoa - dpd is diethyl paraphenylene diamine. It is used to test for chlorine in water. All the recommendations for adding chlorine recommend a LOT of chlorine, probably on the “it is better to be safe than sorry” principal. When you add chlorine to raw water it gets “used” up reacting with organic contaminants. When it reacts with organic compounds it forms trihalomethanes (THMS) which are known carcinogenic chemicals. This is why you want to pre and post filter. After the chlorine has reacted with the all various organic compounds what is left is residual chlorine. This is what you are after and a dpd indicator test will tell you aproximately how much residual chlorine is left in the water. You want something around 0.5 - 1 ppm. The EPA limit for municipal water supplies in the Safe Drinking Water Act is 4ppm. If you don’t want any chlorine in the water you can then filter the treated water through activated carbon which will also remove the THMSs.
If you have the ability to test for residual chlorine you don’t need to be as concerned with your bleach decaying - just add more until you detect some residual chlorine. If the water source is the same and the chlorine is from the same bottle at about the same time you can then aproximate how much you need to adjust the amount of bleach to use.
oops I pasted wondering in the author and hit return.
Genoa - I forgot to mention, that you can get the pdp test kits at most any place that sells pool supplies. Typically a bottle of 50 is around $8.
pfwag:
how are you coming with your water report? we are anxiously awaiting…
jumping jack flash - it is almost finished. I just ordered $400 of water stuff that came in yesterday that I need to test over the next few days. That will complete the last section on a low cost, low pressure filter solution. If you didn’t already, make sure you send me an e-mail to get a copy. Currently 115 pages.
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