From Flu Wiki 2

Forum: Water Filters and Other Questions

07 November 2006

Newname – at 16:43

I’ve read all the forums about Water Filtes and storage,etc. But, I still have a couple of questions:

1. I’m confused about rainwater from a roof. Is it o.k. to use rainwater from an asphalt shingle roof?

2. Is it o.k. to use a galvanized wash tub to catch the water in?

3. Does rainwater have the dreaded Crypto and Giardia in it as ground water does?

4. If it does contain these monsters, then which filter would be best to use? A Berkeley does not filter them out if I understand correctly. So, what filter would do the job with rainwater?

If I can get answers to just these few questions, I would be so happy as I’ve procrastinated long enough on this area.

Thanks for all your help.

JV – at 16:58

Newname -

As far as I understand, if you use the Black Berkey filter (not other filters) with one of the Berkey systems, then Crypto is removed.

Here is the web site for the manufacturer (New Millenium Concepts): http://tinyurl.com/u5qjw

If you click on Black Berkey on the left side, then, on that page, you can see the places that evaluated the filters (bottom right). The University of Arizona found that Crypto was removed.

Urdar-Norway – at 18:39

yes the Berkey/ Doulton takes everything exepts viruses and some polution. But the shingle water is ok, but not the first parts.. You need to make sure the roof is cleaned by the rain for awhile before collecting it.. this is ordinary for rooff colected water, check out the web for DIYs. Then the virus problem.. it may not be any,, we will not know if birds in your area will have H1N5 or the new virus during the pandemic.. if its not there now, why should it be there during TSHTF.. Maybe a lot of people infected will pass it on to birds? Anyway, bleach takes care of that, and its recomended to blach it before using the cheramic fllter, or to make a two filter system, first cheramic, then bleach, then active coal. This is to save the berkey for longer lifetime.

Boiling is the most usaul way to clean any water. But it demands fulels /el. There is also a scientific proofed way to desinfect clear water using sunshine. You fill filtrated water in clear thin PET bottles (not glass or any other plastic , but PET) place it lying in sunshine outside for a whole day will kill anything in it if strong sunshine.

The idea of getting a cheramic filter is the best, much better than filling up your house with water. Even getting the containers infront is better than filling them all I beliwe. Since viruse dont make waterplants “sick” in the minute. But when alarm goes of you are in real hurry to fill them up.

I got me a Doulton, and I am impressed with the quality of water. The easiest way to use them is as a siphon. But drilling some hole in a plastic buket placed on top of another bucket is all you need, and the filter candle is not exepensive. The nice steel container is more costly :-)

LLouat 19:42

Dear Berkey lovers: We need your help and recommendations on the thread: “Why I am not telling my spouse…..” It will make sense when you go there. Thanks!

08 November 2006

Newname – at 14:34

Thank you both for the info on Berkley.I am looking at the Black one.

Now if I could only find out if the Galvanized Wash tub is o.k. to use. There might be some reason galvanizing is bad and I don’t know what it is.

Newname – at 14:36

Forgot to ask this too. Is PET the same as HDPE as far as bottles are concerned?

I am saving all soda bottles and I guess these are PET.

LauraBat 14:41

Yes Soda bottles are PET. Do not use milk bottles for water storage - they degrade over time. Old Soda or water bottles are your best bet. Also, lots of olks here have bought 5 gallon collapsible jubs from Wallmart, etc. They cost $5–7 each, but are quite small when not in use. Then you can fill them when think it’s time to store extra water.

Jumping Jack Flash – at 18:21

Does anyone know what happened to pfwag?? He was clearly (hopefully still is) our fluwiki resident water expert. Very valuable resource. I haven’t seen him in several weeks. I was really looking forward to seeing water report.

S. Arlington – at 20:59

MIOX

http://www.msrcorp.com/filters/miox.asp

http://stuff.silverorange.com/archives/2004/september/msrmioxpurifier

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2003_Sept_16/ai_107795455

11 November 2006

Genoa – at 16:25

After much debating and even more time spent saving, I finally am on the verge of orderng a water filter. I was all set to order the Berkey when I ran across some information I had saved earlier when researching water filters. Now I’m wondering about the AquaRain filter, which seems to be similar to the Berkey. Of course, in their information, they claim to be better. I don’t know about better, but it is less expensive. It appears that the filters MIGHT be interchangeable, but then again, I’m not sure since it appears that the ceremic elements and the carbon filter are all in one for the AquaRain and separate for the Berkey. Does anyone know for sure? I also thought the Berkey black filters were supposed to be the latest and greatest, but now I don’t know if that is true or not.

I would appreciate any observations by those who are familiar with water filters. While I’d like to save money, I am willing to pay more for a better water filter. So I’d like to make my final decision based on which seems to be more reliable/long-lasting, etc.

I’ve included a link, I hope for the AquaRain information I came across. I hope the link works, as it’s the first time I’ve used the tiny url or posetd a link on this site.

http://tinyurl.com/nglen

Edna Mode – at 16:44

Genoa, I don’t know about Aqua Rain specifically, but I do know that the carbon in carbon filters requires replacement at a more frequent rate than the ceramic filters. You need to find out how many gallons each Aqua Rain filter can process before part or all of the filter(s) need to be replaced. Then and only then will you be able to compare the real costs of the Aqua Rain v. Berkey.

My Black Berkey filters (I have two inserted) will filter up to 16–17 gallons of water per day for a year. If we are in the position of needing to filter surface water for survival, there’s no way we will be lugging that much water daily. Still, just in case, I have a set of filters in the stockpile. They take up less space than two hardcover books. To figure out whether to buy an If you buy an Aqua Rain v. Berkey, figure out how much replacement material you will need to have on hand for X period of time for each filter, the cost of those materials for each type of filter, and the space to store—all factors in making your decision. If the AR and the Berkey come in at similar costs, I’d go with the Berkey.

Aside from the water test results that I referenced over in the “Why I’m not telling my spouse…” thread, the fact that heavy-hitting non-governmental organizations the world over rely on the Berkeys in the field—and some pretty funky fields at that—convinced me that it was the filter for my needs.

Edna Mode – at 16:45

To figure out whether to buy an If you buy an Aqua Rain v. Berkey, figure out how much replacement material

Should be

To figure out whether to buy an Aqua Rain v. Berkey…

Urdar-Norway – at 17:50

Newname: PE HD.. Polyetelen High Density is ok for any dry food and drink.. its softer than PET and is not often used in bootles, but barrels, jugs etc are often PE. I would maybe not store any fat like oils in it, since I think it may contain a slightly amount of pfetelat. And its desolves in fats. Anyway wash them in hot water and soap if factory new.

 I uses it for water, and dry food, like beans, rice etc.

I also made my new doulton water filter wiht two PE buckets with lid on top on eachother. All I would want was a tap..

Urdar-Norway – at 17:56

Genoa: It seems to be the same tech.. and they mention that you may replace from any provider. Berkey has its active carbon inside. The carbon will not last as long as the cheramic, but it will work anyway. The berkey has silver incorporated in the cheramic, thsi is good to prevent any bacterial growth, and probably finnishes of some viruses as well.

When my filter is old I will try to crack it open, replacing the carbon and glue it back togheter, If you filtrate very clean water like tap water i think the cheramic will last a very looong time..

Newname – at 19:12

Edna Mode’

How do you exactly clean the Black Berkey filter? Do you just wash the black outside part or do you have to take it apart and clean whatever is inside.

How do you know when to clean them, anyhow?

I’ve decided to get the Black Berkey but want to know how much water it will take to keep the filter and inside the steel cans clean.

Edna Mode – at 20:16

Urdar-Norway – at 17:56 When my filter is old I will try to crack it open, replacing the carbon and glue it back togheter, If you filtrate very clean water like tap water i think the cheramic will last a very looong time..

Urdar-Norway, I would not recommend doing this, especially not in emergency water filtering situations. The cost of a backup set of filters is nominal compared to the cost of getting a waterborne illness in the middle of a pandemic (or any other time for that matter).

Newname, The filters themselves are missile-shaped cylinders that screw into the top water-holding container. You unscrew them and wash them gently with a Scotch brand (or similar) sponge (yellow on one side, green on the other) under running water. You’ll know it’s time to do this when the rate of water filtering slows down enough to be a pain. That means the pores are clogged. As for the inside of the holding chambers, you could simply dampen a clean cloth with a water/bleach or water/vinegar combination and wipe the interior down once a week or so. You should read the information on the New Millenium Concepts Web site before you buy to make sure you understand fully what you are buying.

http://tinyurl.com/m6ulb

Sahara – at 21:14

To answer the first question of the original poster:

1. I’m confused about rainwater from a roof. Is it o.k. to use rainwater from an asphalt shingle roof?

We had a few threads talking about this issue, and the consensus we arrived at was “No.” Don’t use runoff from as asphalt shingle roof for drinking water. Asphalt particulates appear to be washed away in rainwater, into your prospective drinking water. These contain hydrocarbons that are unhealthy. Also, there are questions about the adhesives used to secure asphalt shingles, and the possiblity of lead from flashing leaching lead into the water. Shingle composition, adhesive and flashing vary, and its hard to generalize to every roof. You could use the runoff for flushing toilets and washing, but not for drinking.

That said, I wasn’t able to locate any specific studies about exactly what chemicals and how much of them were in the runoff. It doesn’t appear that anyone has ever studied the issue, or done any testing of runoff - this is hard to believe so I think it is probable that this research hasn’t been published widely - at least no in the environmental journals I read. People who harvest rainwater from their roofs use metal roofs, and diverters that allow the first few minutes of runoff to divert onto the lawn or elsewhere, away from the collection cistern. I never found a reference that recommended anthing else than a metal roof to harvest potable rainwater.

In an emergency, anything goes and I would drink the runoff rather than die of dehydration. I have a Katydyn Gravidyn filer, which has both ceramic and charcoal filters. It is the same as the Berkey, but the container is made of plastic and doesn’t look as good sitting on your kitchen counter. It is less expensive. The ceramic will filter out the biologicals, and the charcoal will filter out the hydrocarbons, pesticides and heavy metals - or so I understand. Bleach will kill whatever gets through.

However, runoff is a last resort. I would recommend other ways of harvesting rainwater if you have a choice. A tarp propped up on some sticks draining into buckets is my water backup. Of course, every situation is different and we all have different circumstances and climates that need a personalized, local solution.

Hope this helps.

Edna Mode – at 22:18

Sahara – at 21:14 We had a few threads talking about this issue, and the consensus we arrived at was “No.” Don’t use runoff from as asphalt shingle roof for drinking water. Asphalt particulates appear to be washed away in rainwater, into your prospective drinking water. These contain hydrocarbons that are unhealthy. Also, there are questions about the adhesives used to secure asphalt shingles, and the possiblity of lead from flashing leaching lead into the water. Shingle composition, adhesive and flashing vary, and its hard to generalize to every roof. You could use the runoff for flushing toilets and washing, but not for drinking.

We have an asphalt shingle roof with aluminum gutters connected to our rain barrel. I posted water test results over on the “Why I won’t tell my husband about my preps” (or something like that) thread the other day.

Long and short of it is that the raw water straight from the barrel was darn near potable in terms of heavy metals, VOCs, etc. with the exception that it contained e coli. Post filtering samples still tested positive for e coli, which shocked me given the claims made by Berkey. However, the lab that ran the test (owned by a close friend with whom I spoke directly about test results), assured me that with proper bleach/chlorine treatment, the water was entirely potable. (It should be noted that both the raw water from the rain barrel as well as the raw water we had tested from the marsh behind our home were very soft to begin with.)

Metal or clay tiles are the ideal water gathering surfaces. But under the circumstances, I’m thrilled with our water test results, and I’ll have no qualms about using our roof water for potable applications once it has been treated and filtered.

Newname – at 22:20

Sahara and Edna Mode

You both have helped me so much!! Thank you. I really wasn’t certain about the roof water. I will frame a tarp to use with a bucket and sticks. I sure don’t want to drink ‘dirty’ water unless things get dire.

Now, if I can find someone who can advise me about using galvanized wash tubs to use for catching rainwater, I’ll be set. Thanks again.

Kim – at 22:37

I’ll jump in here with what I know about Berkey’s vs. AquaRain. My experience is based on selling AquaRain filters when I had my camping store. Let me say further that I am no purist when it comes to drinking water… as long as it doesn’t smell or taste like rotten eggs or something, water is all the same to me. I did, however, take a lot of time and research to compare the two brands before deciding what I wanted to sell.

I chose to sell the AquaRain instead of the Berkey for several reasons. One reason was cost, the AquaRain is somewhat less expensive.

Another reason was the quality of the ceramic used in the filters. I don’t know anything about the Black Berky’s, at that time Berkey’s had whitish-colored ceramic filters. The AquaRain filters are poured ceramic candles that are produced and cured under computer-controlled conditions. A side-by-side comparison proved that the AquaRain filter was smooth, hard and dense, while the Berkey filter was much softer & grainier and actually somewhat chalky. If I recall the AquaRain also had a finer absolute pore density, .2 micron versus the Berkey .5 micron or so. Both the Berkey and AquaRain filters are (were, anyway) filled with silver-impregnated activated charcoal. The AquaRain comes with a plastic guage that you can slip over the ceramic filter to determine whether or not there is still sufficient ceramic to filter effectively, I don’t think the Berkey did.

I also liked the design of the AquaRain because it had a flange where the top water container fit onto the bottom water container. This flange prevented any unfiltered water that might get accidentally spilled as you were trying to pour it into the top container from running down the side and dripping into the already filtered water.

The AquaRain is made in the USA, while I think the Berkey is not.

Finally, the folks at AquaRain are a WHOLE lot nicer to deal with (at least from a dealer’s perspective) than the folks that control the Berkey’s. Let’s just say that I finally ended up telling the Berkey people to stick their filter where the sun don’t shine.

Things may have changed since then, I don’t know (this was about 5 years ago). I still have my AquaRain 200 and plenty of spare filters and parts in the box, waiting to use if needed.

12 November 2006

Kim – at 01:37

BTW, if you have questions about the AquaRain you can go directly to the mfr’s website www.aquarain.com If after looking it over you still have questions you can email or phone them (contact info on website). They really are nice people to deal with.

Lavendergrl – at 01:55

Those who use a filter-how will you protect against viruses in the water? You can’t use bleach and then use the filter for very long, because the bleach contaminates the filter.

I’m with S. Arlington. Get a MIOX.

These people have a discount code right now:

—coupon code: messageboardfriends

NJ Jeeper – at 10:18

In my effort to provide backups for backups, it did not occur to me that we might break off the spigot of the Berkey. That could be a big deal. So ordered a replacement kit. Thanks fluwikie. Always find a good bit of useful info here.

Mari – at 12:29

Edna Mode – at 22:18 - Glad you posted your water test results here as well as on the other thread, because you didn’t mention the asphalt shingle roof on the other thread. I’ve been wondering about the water quality I would get from my asphalt shingle roof, and your test results confirm what one of the chemists said on the “Ask questions of chemists” thread (OK as long as you don’t keep the first 5–10 min or so of water). Since I don’t have gutters, my solution is to position my rain barrels out a bit from the roof where the shape of the roof channels the water, so that water only goes into the barrels when it’s gushing off the roof.

Edna Mode – at 15:31

Miox takes 4 hours to kill cryptosporidia (much less to kill giardia, viruses, and bacterias). You can do approx. 200 liters (about 52 gallons) before the batteries need to be replaced. The batteries appear to range in price from $1 to $5 a piece, depending on if you go with no-name or brand-name batteries. So, aside from having to wait a very long time (IMO) for the water to be assured of being potable, you’d end up spending anywhere from $116 to $580 on replacement batteries to filter the same amount of water you need to do with one Black Berkey filter (3,000 gallons) at about $50. Even if you buy the least expensive batteries, you’re still paying about twice the cost with a Miox in the long run.

18 November 2006

DemFromCT - closed – at 23:48

closed for speed -restart thread if needed

Retrieved from http://www.fluwikie2.com/index.php?n=Forum.WaterFiltersAndOtherQuestions
Page last modified on November 18, 2006, at 11:48 PM