OK, I’m now getting well and truly spooked by the changes in H5N1 with no apparent reduction in lethality. I’m spooked by nobel prize winners living here who confirm they have stockpiled Tamiflu for themselves. I do not believe there is any sceintific basis for the suggestion that the virus will trade lethality for infectivity. If that were true, why are there still mass dyings of chickens?
Last night I had a dream. I was SIP and had not left on my boat because I couldn’t convince my son and his girlfriend to come. It was early afternoon and I was in the backyard tending my vegetables when I heard a distant popping sound - gunfire. It gradually got closer, I began to hear cars revving and people yelling and screaming. I knew I was listening to a mob, working its way towards me through the suburb. My son arrived, bleeding, with his girlfriend. their house was gone, burned, they had just escaped with their lives. The noise got louder. They were two blocks away.
My seventeen year old golden retriever, lame, deaf, and almost blind was lying in the sun. I had no weapon to shoot him. He would have to be left to the looters. Maybe one of them would take pity on him. My son and daughter were loading my twenty pound plastic boxes of preps into the landcruiser. I hadn’t convinced them to prep before, I guess they are believers now. Smoke was rising from the next block as we got into the truck.
The neighbours, husband wife and two little girls were watching in disbelief. I told them to go to the military base a mile away. Maybe they would take care of them. It was all I could do. For some reason the looters came over the back fence first, three of them I ran through the house to join my son. A clown came around the corner holding a molotov cocktail. He missed. He ran at us, we drove over him. A bullet came through the back window, missing us. We drove down the street and eventually came to my marina.
We loaded the boat throwing everything in any old way. As we pulled out the mob arrived. From the safety of the water, we watched them trash the place, one guy even running off with a large screen plasma TV - to watch what? Nobody came after us. I watched in disbelief as the mob torched a dozen million dollar yachts. Why didn’t they use them themsleves/ Why this orgy of wanton destruction? We watched as they set the whole waterfront on fire, then hoisted sails and headed for sea. No one could follow us where I was planning to go, but what if someone tried?
Then I woke up.
What that dream told me was this: When TSHTF and IF the CFR is higher then about 10 percent ( don’t ask me why I chose that number, it just seems about right) then I believe a shotgun is going to be a necessary survival tool, because fear is going to make society stop working, at least for a time, not in all places, but in the cities. Fearful people will do almost anything to ensure their survival - including taking things from other people. Then there are the underclass, for want of a better word (And I do NOT mean poor honest hard working people).
These guys are going to regard a lack of police as an opportunity to get even with society. It happens once or twice a year now, usually small groups of immigrant youths from a middle eastern country try and take over a certain park or beach but the police deal with them. I even know where they live, what they will target and which streets they will come down. Nothing is going to stop them, they will have weapons, very few of the community have guns - we rely on our wonderful, Police don’t we?
Anyway within a week or two I plan on having a shotgun with a twenty inch barrel, and some oo buckshot rounds as well as bird loads. That should even things up a little.
here here - get 2 (one to cover your back) and get a semi auto handgun while you’re at it.
Walrus -
Forget the gun. I want the boat ;-).
Whatever happens, I wish you the best. I think your stint on the boat is a good idea. The gun, too.
That was definately an axiety dream if I ever had or heard of one! My biggest anxiety dreams always include my animals. I have four dogs, four cats, and three parrots. They are included in my preparations. What a feeling of helplessness you must have had to leave that dog with the bad guys. Hopefully, if it recurs, you’ll put him in the car first, don your superman cape and pound the poo out of the bad guys. Good luck with the shotgun…my Concealed Carry Permit arrived yesterday so I’m legal now.
Two nights ago I had a similar dream. Looters came. We all ran out the back into the field a safe distance away. The German Shepherds were in thier crates and I heard a shot and one of them killed. I ran back into the house to get my Sig 45 and lay waste to them. When I tried to charge the gun it fell apart. I sat there in this stupid dream trying to get the gun to work while the looters were coming. Then I woke up. Shouldn’t of ate Mexican food right before bedtime!
Walrus, I’ve had the same kind of dream, earlier, before I started prepping. Because of them I’ve discussed with my (little!) kids escape routes out of the subdivision, and possible sheltering areas in case of civil unrest. I’ve packed backpacks with food and emergency shelters for them. Now, this would have to be from pretty strong feelings to have considered discussing this with my kids. I tried to cover it by talking about getting camping supplies together and all, but they finally let me know they saw through me. Once they did, I knew I could be a little more open with them and they got a bang out looking at the Google satellite photos of our area and the layout of nearby wooded areas and all.
And I have the shotgun now. Never had a gun before; would never even consider it. I had the good fortune to run into a police trainer while gun shopping; he highly recommended a handgun rather than shotgun for personal protection (more control in tight quarters.) I wanted dual purpose for hunting, though. I am pressing my also previously anti-gun hubby into getting a CCW and a handgun.
I don’t have many bad dreams anymore. But I still don’t think my personal chances are good if TSHTF.
should of bought a GLOCK- THE Origional
My dream means I should go back to the range and get refamiliarized. If there is civil unrest, I think it will only be a relatively small window of a couple weeks duration. I would imagine that would occur 2–3 weeks into the thick of the pandemic. All the people who didn’t prep would run out of food, beer and cigaretts etc. by then. If they weren’t shot while looting, they would be sick shortly into their spree. I hope things would calm down then.
I’m not sure how long this thread will be allowed to continue as it seems to me, this site frowns upon firearm discussions…
With that said and before it’s closed or pulled, as a firearm instructor, I would suggest to those that feel compelled, to purchase whatever firearms you feel necessary, NOW. Along with those tools, adequate ammunition is important too. There are certain calibers that are getting increasingly harder to find, and the prices on ammo are going up up up. Between supply/demand, cost of metals, etc, there seems to be a run on ammo. Not only from the position of personal protection, but ammunition will become a high commodity for bargaining purposes if TSHTF.
Most importantly, for newbies to the firearm arena, proper instruction and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE is vitally important. Not only will you want to increase your odds of hitting your *target* per se, but also you will want to be frugal on the amount of ammo that is required to hit said target. And for those that know how to use a gun already, PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE is always a good thing.
No matter what anyone says, this country (the USA) was founded on a right to bear arms, that right was secured with the use of firearms and I’m increasingly concerned the need for them will continue to grow as world events unfold around us. There’s nothing wrong or (as much as I hate to even type these words cause it is not a state of mind that I choose to operate in) politically incorrect about educating oneself on the proper use and maintence of a firearm.
‘Nuff said.
Shad.
Walrus – at 17:52
As a gun owner, I hope you (Walrus) give serious thought to purchasing a gun. You need to be willing to make a commitment of time and money to learn how to use it properly. Until you’ve thought through the ramifications of using lethal force, I don’t think a dream is sufficient reason to purchase a gun. If you do go through with a purchase, follow Shaddup’s advice and practice. You owe it to yourself, your family and your community.
Two brand new Mossberg 590s joined my preps on Friday. I live downtown in a major US city and am concerned that if I donk( get enough advanced warning from the wiki to bug out, that my family and I will be stuck doing our SIP in our city.
Rather have them and not need them than need them and not have them.
Opressors beware.
Peace
Whoops, “don’t” get enough advance notice…
In addition to adequate training, for anyone purchasing firearms with children in the house, I would very strong recommend getting a good way to lock them down until you need them, and for older kids hide the key somewhere they can’t find it.
One option:
I’ve also seen a good lockable “sleeve” that covers the trigger, etc., more completely, but I don’t have the url in front of me at the moment.
I was going to ask Walrus to post his dream in the Pandemic Dream thread, but I see this has quickly become a gun thread.
if folks decide to get firearms, keep in mind that you’ll need a good stock of ammunition to go with them — folks won’t be able to run out to the store for that, either. and when/if things crank back up after, it will likely be a good bit of time before they’ll be able to buy it in stores. definitely get some range time in before the pandemic - once it starts, it’s very likely you won’t be able to replenish whatever you use getting comfortable with whatever you get. and if you’ll be hunting for the first time, get a fairly unreasonable quantity - because you’ll likely get nervous, and miss.
places do exist online where you can get bulk quantities for a good bit less than your local sporting goods store - i’d look at those.. looters may at some point figure out to check the federal sales records at the stores they loot, to find out where to go for whatever they’re looking for - if you don’t buy local, that won’t be a problem for you. and get a trigger lock for each firearm - my preference is a combination - ymmv. get cleaning supplies, as well.
before practice comes some TRAINING!!!
Oremus – at 23:12
if you choose to think of it that way, i suppose. but it is a choice.
and having re-written this a few times, i’ll leave it at that.
anonymous – at 23:00
Yup. In fact, I wouldn’t let any actual firearms or ammo into our house until we had all means of securing both. And DH knows that under no uncertain terms are they to be left unsecured for any reason come hell or high water. Well, actually, we will unlock them when it comes hell or high water.
anonymous – at 23:28
Yes, that is why I said proper instruction along with practice.
It doesn’t do much good to practice with something that you don’t know how to use correctly. All the gun ranges I’ve been to have an over abundance of people who are more than willing to help answer any questions one might have, but even more important than that is to find someone who is trained in the art of firearm instruction to teach and educate the new firearm owner.
Firearms are tools that must be respected.
Shad.
shadddup – at 23:56
couldn’t agree more.. without proper instruction, you may be doing alot of things, but practice is not among them. that applies to most tools. i once saw a guy put a drill bit into a concrete wall - because he hadn’t tightened it correctly before starting to use the drill press he was fiddling with; the drill bit could have hit (and killed) anyone in the room.
I, too, advocate training and practice. Most of my firearms are safely locked away in gun safes. Unlike many, I view my firearms as emergency tools that, to be useful, must be handy and ready for action. I don’t expect a phone call warning me that an intrusion is scheduled in five minutes.
As there are no children here, I feel comfortable discreetly placing handguns out-of-sight near where I work and sleep, and long guns near exterior doors…with rounds chambered.
As a child I was taught to respect firearms much the same way that I was taught to respect electricty. I was never shocked because I stuck a hairpin in an electrical socket. And, I’ve never experienced an accidental discharge from a firearm even though I’ve had a CCW for many years and carry ‘locked and loaded’.
I also have four fire extinguishers stategically placed (in plain sight) around the house and one in each vehicle. That comes from the same line of thinking. If I need my emergency tools, I need them NOW.
Tall in MS – at 00:45 I, too, advocate training and practice. Most of my firearms are safely locked away in gun safes. Unlike many, I view my firearms as emergency tools that, to be useful, must be handy and ready for action. I don’t expect a phone call warning me that an intrusion is scheduled in five minutes.
Good point, and one that we’ve considered heavily. While I have no doubt we would regret the inaccessibility of our firearms were we to experience a pre-pandemic home invasion or some such, we feel it is an unacceptable risk to have firearms in the house with our children unless they are under (multiple) locks and keys. Ours are strictly for worse case pandemic scenario.
As for training/instruction before practicing on your own, that’s another excellent point. My DH and I opted to pay for private, one-on-one instruction, and it was money well spent.
Edna Mode – at 00:56 - I certainly appreciate reducing risks when children are present. When the grandchildren come to visit, the ‘ready’ firearms here are elevated so that a certain tall guy has to stretch to reach them. Anyone else would have to drag a ladder around just to find them.
It takes considerably more time and ammunition to become proficient with pistols than it does with long arms. The shorter barrel makes for greater opportunity for accidents. Unless you plan on carrying a pistol on your person or in your automobile, it would not be my first choice. A good pump shotgun along the lines of what the police are currently carrying is more than adequate for close encounters of the wrong kind. Put a trigger lock on the gun. They usually come with two keys. Put one on your ring and put the other on your spouses ring. They are usually tiny and easily recognizable. Take the thing to the range and shoot it. Both of you shoot it. Bring the kids along and let them shoot it if they are old enough. Don’t force the little people to shoot it, the recoil will hurt them. Don’t pretend to be an expert and their will be a number of friendly people at the range that will be more than willing to help you. People who shoot at gun ranges are generally more than willing to help newcomers that share an interest in their sport.
For homeland security, load three rounds of OO buck first followed by two rounds of bird shot. Do not put one in the chamber. Lock up the trigger lock and lien it up in a corner. With any luck, you will never need to use it.
Two boxes of no 8 bird shot, two boxes OO buck and you are good to go. If you fire more than sixty rounds at an intruder then you are warding of the zombie hordes and the inside of your home is going to look like Baghdad
c3jmp – at 23:54
This was not a comment against guns. I have many, and I think this site needs to have gun prep threads. I just like it when threads stay on topic, so I am glad that this didn’t get posted on the pandemic dream thread since the thread would quickly get off topic. Sheesh, gun people can be so touchy. 8^)
One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is that it is essential for a gun owner to understand the laws governing the lethal use of force. Every state is different so don’t assume that you know. It is the responsibility of every gun owner to understand and obey the law.
And yes, continue to train and practice.
I’m sorry but I’m totally lost with this thread. Would anyone have even bothered reading it if the title had been “Had a Dream—Buying a Pipe Wrench”??? A gun is a tool: a complex collection of metal parts designed to accomplish a specific task—nothing more. If you don’t have one in your ‘toolbox’, then your preparations are incomplete. Period.
I happen to have a toilet plunger stored in my bathroom vanity cabinet. Here’s hoping I never have to use it. But I’ve got one there just the same, because if I ever DO need it, and I don’t have one, then I’m SOL (chuckle). It’s no different with a gun.
If there IS something more to a gun than a collection of metal parts, it must be what an individual’s psychological makeup imposes on it. Kind of like the Druids and Stonehenge, I suppose.
They’re nothing but big rocks, you know . . .
I’m waiting for them to ban pencils in schools because you could stab someone with one. Blame the pencil.
Oremus – at 12:27 I’m waiting for them to ban pencils in schools because you could stab someone with one. Blame the pencil.
Well, they aren’t far off, Oremus. My 8 y.o. son came home to tell me that they played soccer in gym, but they couldn’t use real soccer balls because the teacher deemed them “too dangerous.” Give me a break! Just about every kid in the class is on at least one, and some of the two, soccer teams. Oi!
Another good one is the rule at our school that you can’t run on the playground, because you might bang into someone and hurt them or yourself. Ridiculous.
Edna Mode – at 12:33
Overly Litigious Society.
Oremus – at 11:24
:-) not at all touchy. didn’t know where you were coming from. agree there should be prep threads on this topic, as well. doing stupid things in a car gets far more people injured/dead daily - you don’t see near the concern about cars, tho.
There have been many, many, many threads on guns and other things to use for self protection. Hundreds and hundreds of pages worth. You can probably access them. Try. It will save the thread from being shut down. It always goes over the top.
I think a little background explanantion is required about why I posted about this dream and my actions - which are remarkable for me.
I was trained in the use of firearms very well in the Army. I was actually the battalion range control officer responsible for all weapons instructing and range practices by the time I left. I have held the view since then that most people owning guns are more of a danger to themselves than anyone else when it comes to self protection, and I have resolutely refused to arm myself for this very reason - until now.
In other words, this is a major change for me.
Cloud9,
If someone chooses to become armed, your advice is good. Are you fending off zombies, or are you merely brandishing a weapon? Are you picking off marmots at 275 yards, or are you within 50 yards of your target? Wiil your projectile fly harmlessly for a mile or two, or might it travel through several residential walls before it comes to rest?
For purposes other than law enforcement or big game hunting, a shotgun may be your best choice for personal protection.
If your in the city a shotgun can also get you a meal or two. squiriels, pigieons, andrabbits abound in most cities. Just make sure you have the correct ammo for small game
I appreciate that there is a time and place for this sort of discussion but I draw your attention to Rule 12 of the Wiki Forum Rules and that, as a non-partisan and an international site, discussion of guns can be divisive for some and discourage visits from others.
yes, I know I don’t have to visit this thread, but it constantly shows in the list of current threads and the divisive word (guns) is in the title.
MODS,
I’m sorry to venture into forbidden territory.
shadddup’s advice and others is thoroughly worth reading. if you get a gun, PLEASE learn how to use it. The NRA can help, and there are many local opportunities for training (call your local police chief). If you have children in the house plan accordingly.
This thread was fine, but it is a problem because gun threads always veer into how much ammo you need, trip wires and other things that make our visitors think we’re nuts. It is only peripheral to flu prep (regardless of what the gun people think) and as a matter of policy, this thread will be closed. But… not before some excellent advice for those who are not experienced with firearms.
Thanks, folks. I appreciate it.
Wiil your projectile fly harmlessly for a mile or two, or might it travel through several residential walls before it comes to rest?
An excellent point, particularly given the probably minimal training of folks using “pandemic guns” for the first time.