Containment is the one thing that we all agree is not going to work. The next step is to control the number of people that die. If a H2H outbreak is confirmed on the new’s one day, then will you be going to work the next day?
no
anonymous…you pick a name and I will answer your question. /:0)
Although I am prepped very well, will still go to the store to pick up a few items. When WHO makes the announcement (it will be spreading faster than they say I suspect), (hope to get the news off fluwikie before even WHO states it), and will get some supplies for extra. As when the announcement is made by a country or WHO, I will KNOW the “Great Death” will be beginning soon in my town. I suspect most people will not pay attention right off, so AFTER I get home with my goods, will be on the telephone calling friends and relatives about the situation. Most know we are prepped and expecting this to occur but at least I will notify them THIS IS THE BIG ONE. Dont expect any to drive down here near Death Valley to hole up with me.
GNDV-I reckon you’ll probably get a few visitor’s. (Dunno where it is but!)(Sound’s Hot-Like Marble Bar or Sandstone) I won’t be going to work. You’ve gotta take a holiday sometime.
Not only will I not be going home the next day, but the very minute I hear it, I will leave the office, be on the phone to get my son and DIL on the very first plane (if there is any) to come to my home (originally I had thought I would drive up the 1000 km to go fetch them but I realize this may not be a valid option as in 2 X 14 hours of driving non-stop, borders may be closed and we may be stranded away from our homes). Second step would be to phone everyone of my household people to leave work immediately, everyone, myself included, go straight to the doctor get a sickness certificate for a whole month so that we don’t lose pay and send it immediately to employer, then go get whatever last minute preps it is possible to have, max credit cards, go to banks empty the accounts and get cash. Then come home and lock the house up.
Sorry, read: Not only will I not be going to the office (not home)
Frenchie,don’t you think, you will have some months of time for that ?
If a H2H outbreak is confirmed on the new’s one day, then will you be going to work the next day?
anonymous – at 06:51 — Some months for what? Doing the last minute things? No.
Once it’s in the MSM, 48 hours at best. And I would not chance even 48 hours, because coming back from work to home, getting cash or last-minute preps involve crossing the border for me, possibly severyl times. My understanding was that people such as us, having our feet in two countries, would be given only 24 hours’ notice before the borders are closed…
Hopefully, being able to see the big picture in FW, being somewhat warned might give us 3–4 days before the MSM break out the story. Have you considered the likelihood that the MSM actually follow our FluWiki in order to get their cues on _when_?
Where is the understanding of ,”24 hour’s notice”, from? Sound’s like a good rule. (But it would inevitably catch some people out.)
why should they close the borders when there is no panflu yet in your country or town ? Is it specified in your countrie’s pandemic plan or town’s plan ?
anonymous-Who are you? Who Who Who Who
sorry folks, it just popped out of me
What?
Blue – at 07:22 — Where is the understanding of ,”24 hour’s notice”, from?
From informed rumours in the corridors of people close to such employers as mine. In any case, it would make sense even for a government of Europe to do that, seing that the geographical distances between borders are so close, with much much workers living in one country and residing in another. It’s quite different to Northern America.
anonymous – at 07:25 — why should they close the borders when there is no panflu yet in your country or town ? Is it specified in your countrie’s pandemic plan or town’s plan ?
Selective border closing, firstly, then more and more closing of borders as panflu nears my country, with a possibility of moving populations about… French Government Plan. (Regardless of what Goju said about Nabarro’s remark on the French attitude said to be not wanting to close borders completely). Apart from that, think about the attitude of, for example, of the Netherlands Government. I don’t know what their plan is, if they have one, but considering they have very close ties to Indonesia, I’d bet anything their politicians would jump at stopping any flight from there if WHO/TPTB in Indonesia/Dutch or Indonesian MSM reported H2H transmission in Jakarta.
Tom DVM – at 00:03 anonymous…you pick a name and I will answer your question. /:0)
Thank you, Tom. After the debacle over on the male/female prepper thread, this is my new policy. I will not answer anonymous posts. There is enough anonymity in choosing a handle (or multiples if need be).
controlling or quarantining flights from Indonesia is quite different from closing the Swiss-French border in Geneva. I don’t see this happening in the first weeks - if ever. They might close airports, cancel trains, control highways or quarantine passengers but restricting travel inside cities while the hectic of preparations is going on doesn’t make sense. Also, suppose there a few cases in the area and now you impose
DemFromCT at 09:05
When is the question I’d most like an answer to ;)
anonymous at 10:45. Let’s not talk at cross-purposes.
When the MSM will finally talk about H2H, in all likelihood, BF will probably be all over the planet, or mostly. If the MSM wake up early, we may have a few weeks (that’s to soothe you :-)
Geneva is an international city, a plane commute for the world of Asia, Western and Eastern Europe, the Americas, Africa, Australia. Geneva is within 1h15–2h00 of the major air hubs of Europe (London, Amsterdam, Frankfurt). Geneva airport is now, after 40 years when it was then almost in the country side, right in the city suburbs. I have never been at the top of the WHO building, but from it’s location, I’m pretty certain one could count without binoculars plane landings and taking off on the runways. A number of WHO employees live on the French side of the Northern border of Switzerland, located within 5 minutes drive on a good day.
This is true for many international organizations in Geneva. Many employees, including high up officials, work in Switzerland, and sleep in France, whether on the North side or South side. The European Centre for Nuclear Reseach (CERN) is actually located across the border, ie. its buildings are on both sides of the border.
Do you for one moment think the French Government cares a S- - - about border workers making preps if it thinks that closing the borders would protect the rest of the population? Do you think the French Government thinks itself so insufficiently prepared that it would still, in its mind, require weeks of governmental prepping? Do you believe that any European Government would think differently to the French Government? Do yu believe that realization of an imminent pandemic in the words of the MSM is going to light a 500 W bulb inside the heads of politicians? And even if it did, that they would act swiflty enough to complete governmental preps in less than, say, two months, with due respect to legal process? Notwithstanding legal process, even with martial law?
The only reason I can see for any European Government not closing its borders at the time the MSM report on H2H, it would be because H2H BF is already in the country and making ravages, because at that time, it will be useless to close the borders. So, if governments still believe that closing borders would help slow the pandemic (which is exactly put this way in the French Govt plan), then I think they would. It’s neither here nor there that there may be hindrance to the joyous living of the tens of thousands of workers that would be affected by a border closure, in the face of several hundreds or thousands of whom you could save the life.
And, incidentally, that’s why I believe the rumour that we may be given a day to clear our desks and go home over the border. It may just be that is the only flexibility the Government can give itself when it knows H2H panflu is arriving on its soil within days, possibly hours. During WWII, the borders were closed between France and Switzerland. My family suffered because of this, having members on both sides of the border. It’s not going to be any different, just flu instead of war.
So I stand by what I said in my above posts, and hope that BF never makes it H2H efficient…
And by the way, do you not think the Swiss Government would react the same? Also, just had this idea: a 24 hour notice would be one way of extending courtesy to the neighbouring country. Very important in diplomatic relations.
Pfewww! End of discourse :-D
FrenchieGirl-If you get stuck at the border, you may be able to bribe some officials with some N95 facemasks (along with your Gallic charm). : )
Since it will likely later get identified *because* people started falling ill all over the world at the same time, seeded out from airport hubs… 24 hours sounds like a lot of notice, which I don’t expect the WHO, my govt, or any official to give me.
Some essential people may choose to stay at their posts, even if it means “going down with the ship”, but others have other responsibilty that come first: if the pilots even want to fly the planes anywhere but home, what about all the people who suddenly want to get home too? (Where was everyone on 9/11 ?)
Won’t the airlines, railroads, highways, get clogged by numbers of people, who want to get home, or, go collect family members, no matter what?
Get serious, anon.
General strategies by some governments to “manage the media to prevent rumors and misinformation” will probably get screwed in this age of internet and cellphones; imagine what FrenchieGirl – at 06:42 plans to do when she’s sure, and multiply that by perhaps many more people than any governments sense have been paying attention.
crfullmoon at 18:37-You are on the money there. When those “phone-trees” and email mass mailings get rolling simultaneously there will be enough sheer panic and fright in the world that some civilization on the other side of the galaxy will have an anxiety attack from the vibes we will be broadcasting. It will be like being hit by the concentrated burst of a pulsar.
The world will have never seen anything like it. And that is just the beginning.
I speculate that if containment via border closure were attempted, it would soon be realized they are trying to stop a tsunami with a single sand bag. IMHO, border closures would either be over run, circumvented, or abondoned within hours. Look at the US - Mexico border (with no pandemic).
Frenchie, a quick question, then I have to go. On the European continent, what does ‘closing the border’ mean? Like you draw a line somewhere and guard it with …what?
I don’t think there will be a problem with borders being closed, more like having the manpower to contain the people who insist on crossing the ‘closed’ borders.
Aviation, of course, is a different matter. THAT decision will be made by abstention vote of the aviation employees, IMHO.
I suspect voting with feet with be the norm, for borders, flights, schools, jobs. And TPTB will be playing catch up from the first to the last minute.
Unless they start thinking very hard now rather than doing what they have always been doing….
Blue – at 05:39 I would like to have my son, or grandson, in laws, etc, drive down here,,,,,but that wont happen. But I have told them that if they do once the official announcement is made by TPTB or by me, if they come, they will have to stay out in the spare building for at least 2 weeks without coming into the house (heat, water and toilet is out there), but I do not expect any to arrive. A thousand miles away, and with work etc themselves, it wont happen. The thing I fear are telephone calls telling my wife or myself that some of her grandkids, or my grandchild, son etc, has caught the flu.
I see H2H being announced after about 30 people having been hospitalised in the one city on any one day; air travel would have to be grounded within a day to have any chance of stemming the spread, I would suggest!(More like 12 hour’s or even less!)
Or, would H2H be announced with a smaller cluster of say 5?
The point being,in what shape will H2H most likely announce itself?
(The furtherest point being, that an announcement of 30 people being sick would indicate that the virus could very well almost be in your country by the time you hear the news…then.,,. ………. …well you would expect the government would of picked it up before then and would’ve started grounding overseas flight’s. So the first thing you hear of it will probably be something smaller such as below ten, that has prompted government to ground incoming/outgoing traffic.)?
Important to look at this I think, to combat this DENIAL that we’ll apparently be going through. I do believe that DENIAL will play some (-)role.
So that we know what the signal should look like and to act with a calm knowledge of what is happening.
*(WHAT IF there were multiple cluster’s suddenly upon us, as could well be the case considering it can be spread before symptom’s are shown.)
{Actually- this might be the shape of it. The more I think about it…it makes a whole lot of sense.}*
Let us compare and contrast the shape of the beginning of the pandemic’s of last century…tomorrow!
If/when MSM gets it together enough to report “its here, and its bad” We will already be in the handbasket asking where we are going.
I’m not relying on MSM to tell me when to stay home.
CarreyinVA- at 15:01-
If the MSM report’s that ,”it’s here”…then yeh…that would not be good;{
Although, that situation should probably be examined! (Tomorrow!) We might find strength somewhere in it.
What would you do if…the nightly new’s announced that BF in Pandemic Form had touched down in NY this morning?
anon_22 – at 20:42 — Frenchie, a quick question, then I have to go. On the European continent, what does ‘closing the border’ mean? Like you draw a line somewhere and guard it with …what?
For a number of borders, they follow nature, like rivers and mountains. They are presently marked in nature by engraved blocks of masonry or stones. It means that roads are closed with barriers, possibly with those things with big nails in them, barbed wire fences, patrols with dogs. If it were war, it would be orders to shoot. The Swiss have a number of frigates for Lake Geneva safety (they actually do have a “Marine”, would you believe!). The Swiss Army is reputed to be extremely good (whether that’s true or not I don’t know), their equipment is excellent, and their citizens do army training two weeks every two years or so until they get too old, then they do civil service.
In the countryside here, some (ordinary) fences in the mountain are still maintained. For example, once I went for mushroom picking in the mountains on the North Side of Geneva. I could not get into Switzerland unless I was willing to jump over the fences (they were not very high). In no time you can transform these with high barbed wire. Even in peaceful times as now, the border is patrolled on both sides, roads with unmarked cars and dogs (sniffing drugs) and nature with walking patrols, also with dogs. Some patrols are armed and may use them on chasing people who refuse to stop or attack them. At any rate, you may be controlled at any time on either side. Whenever there is a big robbery in Geneva, the borders are “closed”, i.e. they put barriers and control almost every car, bus, train, searching inside and taking the papers on the electronic machine to check your identity, and reinforce patrols in the countryside. Both countries cooperate so you may be controlled not just at the point of crossing but in the whole region (Swiss or French). You better carry ID (and in order) on you at all times. Those days, it can be very long to go home.
Also, whenever there is a big conference in Geneva, one that could provoke risks on the population, they bring in the army, the French on the French side, and the Swiss on the Swiss side. I remember in the 1980s when there was the Palestine Conference at UN, the army raised barricades throughout town and had checkpoints. It was a long job to cross into Switzerland. The army was brought in and had order to shoot if you did not stop at summons - I had to make it very clear to my son that if he was out on the street, if any soldier was saying something (in Schwyzer-Deutsch since they brought them from the deepest of German-speaking Switzerland) he had to stop in his tracks and wait - it was horrible and we were terrified. When Mitterand visited Geneva - I had not paid attention to the news - and I wanted to take my son for a picnic watching planes from a field nearby the airport. We never got there… More recently, when WTO had its Ministerial Meeting in Geneva, with demonstrators all over town, they whisked some Ministers away by helicopter when these demonstrators started making a mess. There were snipers at the top of trees in some parks bordering the lake, with dog patrols beneath the trees :-D When the G8 met in Evian a few years ago, it was a painful job, cops everywhere in the whole county (county = admin.region). I wanted to take my old lady for her Sunday outing, but the countryside was severely restricted so we ended up turning in circles between towns, on secondary roads (the main one was reserved for the G8 attendees), but yet still not in wilderness (which was closed to us mere mortals). I do not know how it is on other borders of other countries, just my local ones, but I would imagine more of the same.
On the other hand, you can go skiing in the Alps and cross into Switzerland and Italy and reach the other countries’ skiing resorts.
As in the war, it would be impossible to make it completely crossing-proof, but you’d have to know the area very very well to know where to cross without being caught. Still, the authorities know their business when it comes to close the border.
If the nightly news was reporting that pandemic flu had been found in NY I’d be filling up my extra water containers, sending hubby to the gas station with a mask to fill both vehicals, and our empty gas cans. Hubby would still work with mask, goggles, and gloves untill PanFlu is confirmed in our county. We would stop automatic payments and prioritize the bills.
I have considered making a pit stop at a grocery store just for fresh fruits and veggies, but I wouldn’t do that if it looked at all scary at the store. The last place I want to be is waiting in line at a grocery store with hundreds of scared people fighting over the last can of beans.
Went to a meeting with a group. One person reported on the possibilities of a pandemic, vs epidemic. After her report, a few questions. They discussed DNA and RNA/ One person, the talker thought our sanitation, our hospitals gave us an edge. Another spoke up about the health care crisis, hospital closing due to the influx of illegals. Some people just looked bored. I said there were three things to do. Shore up your immune system, use sanitary precautions, and do some prepping. At that, there was superior laughter. The very thought of prepping seems to strike people as ridiculous. I said nothing of the extent of prepping that is being recommended. They did struggle with understanding the recombination of viruses, and the possibilities of bio terrorism. 22 people, none of whom took it as anything more serious than an annual bout of influenza.
EdnaMode and TomDVM I agree with the anonymous stuff. To all the anonymous people out there.. Even when you post with a name, you are still anonymous. Edna’s real name could be Richard, Tom could be Stan, person posting as Blue, we don’t know who they are. It just helps to know if we are talking to the same people. It helps with continuity. So please, everyone needs a name.
I think thee are some good comments from the anonymous people out there. They shouldn’t expect too much conversation, but what is the point in picking on someone’s name if they have valuable points of view. It help’s with continuity, but some may not wish to hang out at the forum like other’s. Valuable POV is still a valuable POV and the person expressing it can still be adressed, by quoting their input first.
I think Blue some people find mulitple anonymice difficult…I know I do…when there are mulitple unknown people in a single conversation more than what happened here. Even if they are a one time visitor, if they see in a conversation they are participating in that there are more than one anonymouse, setting things up for confusion, it would be really helpful to pick a name. I’ve seen it worse on other threads, multiply anonymouses, people thinking one said this inflammatory statement when it was another anonomouse, etc. An anonymouse gets banned for a week and people think he said a number of things that actualy others said. You can’t know if you are talking to one person or two or three.
As an aside, what I wanted to share with you, rekind of silly thing happened with my seeing the thread titlel “WHO”. I guess it just somes up the collective view of that organization. Tired and free-associatiing, I see “WHO”
my kneejerk response was..
“WHY?”
Borders are the one thing where Europe is one (mostly).
AND Africa (within and with regards to Europe). In Senegal there are fishing boats capable of reaching Europe. Something like ten thousand boats (last time I heard), maybe with 30 people each.
Europe is in for some big trouble.
Another OMG moment.
And, of course, the question is HOW?
(HOW WHAT?)
There are fishing boat’s capable of reaching Australia from Indonesia. We will also have to think about that.
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