Well, to please Edna Mode, I will start an entire thread on this subject when a simple answer would have been sufficient. So, to please Edna Mode, here is an entire thread devoted to the subject. I was actually reacting to comments posted on the Egypt thread but will start a brand new thread to ask the question, just to please Edna Mode…
Very mature, Nova. The Egypt thread had been hi-jacked and re-hi-jacked with debate about Niman’s merits, banning, etc. It is a thread about Egypt, not Niman. That’s why I made the suggestion, which is no different than the suggestion anon_22 made to (I believe it was) RBD a couple posts prior to yours and mine.
The tone on the wiki is very negative this week. I don’t know if people are unusually tense in the void of information or what it is, but it’s making me very sad, and I’m going to take a breather.
Life is too short to waste on petty shit like this.
Happy Thanksgiving, Nova.
Not again. Please let well-enough alone. Thanks.
It was a simple question. I’m not asking for debate. I just wondered why someone would be banned from this site. For those who understand, it’s old news. For those of us who don’t it is a simple question.
Nova - Maybe it would be better to ask somewhere else. I don’t know why either, I was dealing with a family crisis when it happened. But I bet you could find some information if you did a search.
Was your initial post being sarcastic or are you just that much of a people-pleaser?
Forum Rules
11. Participants may be banned on rare occasion for rules violation and general disruptiveness. Warnings may or may not be given prior to banning. Moderators have final say, and reasons for banning may be revealed from time to time if it is in the interest of the forum to do so. This decision is part of the role of the mods and is not subject to community vote.
This is why.
http://tinyurl.com/vkd26 If you want to go here and ask it’s fine. Be patient though, not a lot of people visit yet.
This just seems really uncomfortable here, and I’m sure nobody wants to replay some old war. The fluwiki forum is far too valuable for that.
Lauralou – at 16:20
I am a little scared to jump in here, but I am very curious too as I read Niman’s site for several months before I found fluwiki. I was surprised to find out he was banned. So how did he violate Rule 11? Or is it not to be revealed? Again, I am curious, not a trouble maker :-|
Thanks.
farm girl – at 16:28
I will take this advice. This was posted while I was typing my post. Thanks.
anon_22 said on the Egyptian thread:
“Nope, we agree with what we believe to be correct, and we agree that people should be free to speculate, as long as they indicated clearly that those were speculations and not proven science. “
I woudl interpret the above to indicate that the Niman posts of examples of recombination could not be posted because the were speculations, in the opinion of the owner/moderators of FW.
However, the same data was presented at the Vaccine meeting in Boston i
http://www.recombinomics.com/presentations.html
in front of the scientists making vaccines as well as funding agencies such as the NIH and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and no one has said that the invited presentation was in the “speculation” category.
One presentaion was in the “Overcoming Challenges” session, while the other was in the Panel Discussion on Funding for Vaccines
The meeting was entitled:
Targeted Immunotherapeutis & Vaccine Summit: Novel Vaccines: Bridging Research, Development, and Production
farm girl – at 16:28
I will take this advice. I was typing my post as farm girl was typing hers. Thanks.
Nova - if you find out and want to save me the trouble, please email me — dwcmail AT gmail DOT com.
He got in a fight with anon-22. They disagreed and he was banned. End of story.
I guess my question would be which time he was banned???
Edna Mode, your contributions here are great, but maybe a SHORT breather will do you (and everyone actually) some good. Other than a few quick peaks, I was away from the internet for almost 2+ months. . . Stress level went WAY down. . . Lots of things seem to have happened here that don’t sound real pretty. . .
Seeing the initial post of this thread isn’t very polite either. Hmmmm
farm girl: It was sarcastic. If anon_22 or Dem had chastised me I would not have been so offended. It was a knee-jerk reaction for which I make no apology. (At least I didn’t use offensive language as Edna Mode did in her response to me.)
Okay, I just wasn’t sure how to interpret it. I’m not very good at understanding the finer nuances of web-speak yet.
It boils down to basic animal behavior stuff. Dr. Niman has a lot to say — but his communication patterns can be difficult to follow and he doesn’t always have patience with questions — sometimes it seems that he thinks what he’s said should be 100% clear and it may not be — add in the challenge that electronic postings are completely devoid of facial expressions and tone isn’t always clear and you can get into a swamp in a hurry.
This last week has had a far amount of snitty stuff in the postings. That’s unfortunate. I often did not understand what Dr. Niman was posting, but I did appreciate his efforts to communicate. Yes, sometimes he was short and surly — but there were times when he was treated very rudely. I hope we can all continue forward without anymore snits from any direction (unlikely, but my hope!)
I’ve had the good fortune to work with some highly capable kids. It is amazing how intelligent one can be and how lacking in social skills. What seems like a “robust discussion” to one kid can come across as “rude and arrogant” to another. Hmm, maybe that fluwiki IQ thread that has so many geniuses listed is the root of some of these communication glitches. Combining the expense of preps with the hassles of the holidays with the stress of watching H5N1 and we may all be a bit grumpy . . . sigh . . .
Wonderer: Thank you. That is all I wanted to know.
That’s what I’m here for…clarity! ;-)
Lauralou: And, thank you too. That answered the other part of the question.
This is like a Mobius strip.In Casino Royall ,Vesper Lynn gets into an elevator, and tells Bond to wait, as the elevator is not large enough for her and for his ego. Perhaps everyone should take a bit of time to reflect, and wait for the next elevator up.
Farmgirl at 16:08: interesting link. What is that site? Please tell me more.
Olymom – at 16:38
«Hmm, maybe that fluwiki IQ thread that has so many geniuses listed is the root of some of these communication glitches»
LOL! Funny post! :)
Thanks folks. All’s well that ends well.
Uhm, I have a suggestion. Being a reader on this site since the summer of ‘05, I have noticed a great deal of animousity expressed toward Niman. Pros and Cons from all direction.
Don’t know why, ‘cause I don’t follow this site 24/7. I’ve got better things to do (mainly, getting my arse in gear and prepping). A buncha stuff may have happened when I was not on line. Appearently, it did. And I’m not going to revisit each thread to investigate who did what when. I’m not a detective. Don’t wannabee.
But, I, for one, welcome all opinions. I’ll use the small amount of brainpower that I have to sift thru expressed opinions, and act accordingly. I have my own filter system. So do you. Act on what you like, disregard the rest. Simple as that.
Opinions vary greatly. And for good reasons. Courtesy, of course, is paramount. No need for finger pointing, ‘specially when we are all here trying to survive this impending calamity that we (a very few) see brewing.
“farm girl ¨C at 16:18 Nova - Maybe it would be better to ask somewhere else. I don¡¯t know why either, I was dealing with a family crisis when it happened. But I bet you could find some information if you did a search.”
I spent a few hours following threads trying to see an event that triggered the banning. Basically I saw the same kind of exchanges you saw in the Egypt threads. If there was a seminal event other than those, I didn’t see it. Most frequently, the pattern followed I observed was someone objecting to postings of Nimans point of view, and people objecting to their presentation, just like the Egypt thread. These anti-Niman posters certainly exhibited a religious fervor equal to any other.
“Lisa the GP ¨C at 19:21 Pardon a brief journey into personality-land, just to be out on the table, I find myself bristling at NS1¡äs posts, detecting a note of ¡®nimanista¡¯ in them, a slant that seems to want to prove Dr. Niman right.”
Nimanphobia is more like it. And where is the critizism for the “scientific method” shown by publishing papers based on secret data with having to show the complete data the paper based on? I could show all kinds of interesting theories if I only had to show the data I chose to reveal, preventing either contextual review or contrary interpretation of the whole.
Niman’s theories somewhat resemble trying to prove the method of progression of marks on a ruler, to show they occur at 1/32nd intervals (which demonstrates the method is not only mutation), but only being allowed to have almost random looks at these marks, without getting to see the points between these occasional samples. The process of the progression is the issue, unprovable without intermediate data. Somehow, a contrarian scientist is supposed write papers and proofs anyway, and the mainstream view supporters get to hide and hoard the data, for reasons specious and false on their face. As far as I can see, Niman’s theorized “ruler of viral change” more closely resembles the real progression of the virus than the people saying a year ago “Oh, someday it may become a pandemic”. Sigh, I am old enough to recognise a potentially rigged poker game without knowing exactly how the cards are marked. I have to speculate on the motivation for the hiding of publically acquired data. I don’t have to speculate on the credibility of the people spouting these BS excuses to justify hoarding from the people holding the data. They are enitrely suspect, to me. This critizism is about the PROCESS, not his views per se. How can anyone prove something in this environment of exclusion?
This point was made in opposition to Niman. “But the point that I¡¯m making is that people can legitimately draw different conclusions from examining the same information, irrespective of who is proposing the theories.” Hmmm, guess that doesn’t work 2 ways! Niman drawing different conclusions is bad, I guess, since he says the others could be wrong? I am glad at least HE believes himself.
“and the fact that he does not mark out the limits of certainty in his work, particularly when communicating to laymen is, at best, not the action of a responsible scientific person. At worst, it is misleading the public.”
This comment made me laugh out loud. So many examples… For sooo long, the WHO issued OFFICIAL, absolute statements of “NO H2H transmission” when disease onset dates in clusters alone made this explanation improbable AT BEST. There was no hint of uncertainty, no disclaimer that the facts had aspects very out of line with this conclusion, no additional public statement to the general public many reputable scientists had severe doubts. And finally a mealy-mouthed, tortured release that admitted the past year of BS was not really BS, but you know, something that fit in the cracks. maybe.
I guess I have no problem with assertions of Niman’s shortcomings, he has many, diplomacy certainly being one. But assertions that he is alone and thus discredited in not following “proper scientific method” and that not just his voice, but his ideas should be excluded from discussions to be pretty repugnant, especially done in a spirit of righteousness or “protecting the uneducated”.