Sherri Tenpenny, D.O., is author of FOWL! Bird Flu: It’s Not What You Think. Her website is BirdFluHype.com. Her publicist asked me to offer my thoughts on the book. In retrospect I wish I would have been kinder in my criticism—I was just so frustrated by the whole pandemic “denier” crowd. These are the highlights of what I wrote:
I’d be happy to email anyone Dr. Tenpenny’s response (I’m afraid I’m not good enough at forum editing to make her response come out right).
-Michael
Michael Greger, M.D.
mhg1@cornell.edu
(206) 312–8640
BirdFluBook.org
I’d love to see it, and thanks!!
demfromct at earthlink.net
Thanks Doc.
It has so much weight coming from you.
Thank You Dr. Greger for your book and comments here. I was pleased to see that you are donating all profits from book and current lecture tour to charity! Bravo! I wonder if the authors of hoax books are doing the same??
Ditto redviolinman at aol dot com
Dem (and Michael) - Would it be ‘ok’ to post her response here? I’d like to see it too. Thanks!
That’s up to Dr. Greger, but i think it would be fair to see it.
Agreed. Transparency is most important.
I can understand how it could be inappropriate to post it here. My email: spd at prexar dot com
Thanks Dr. Greger for your very informative book!
I see no reason not to post it here. Perhaps, you should have her permission?
Question for Dr. Greger, It is obvious in your well documented crituque of the “hoax” books and your own book about the threat of H5N1, (I have just begun to read it, since you have been so generous to supply an online version) I was wondering if you have taken any steps towards personal preparedness in the event that there is an “imminent” pandemic? What would your recommendations be? I would also be interested in knowing what you speak about in your tours, do you speak of preparedness? (Unfortunatley, none of posted engagements are close enough to me, to be able to attend.) If you would rather not answer, I would understand, particularly since you have been so generous in supplying your name and contact information. I have also signed up for your Monthly Pandemic Updates…thanks
I just sent Dr. Tenpenny’s reply to everyone that requested it and can certainly continue to do so. Sorry for the delay—sometimes internet access is a bit patchy on the road. I’m speaking at U of MN tonight—I hope Osterholm comes!
Dr. Tenpenny asked that I not post our exchange publicly, but in the spirit of transparency (and the significant misinformation) I felt I couldn’t remain silent about it. Without her response published side-by-side, though, it’s not really fair to her. I sent her an email requesting that she join in the discussion and both present our views, but unfortunately I haven’t heard from her. So I don’t know what the right thing is to do. Out of respect for her I feel that her rebuttal should be posted, but that might go against her wishes. In the meanwhile I’ll continue to send it to anyone interested, and I’ll let everyone know if I hear back from her.
In response to snowhound1, I have tried not to be hypocritical and follow the recommendations that I lay out in my book in six chapters on preparing for and surviving the next pandemic. These are probably the key sections:
IV. Surviving the Pandemic
1. Don’t Wing It
* a. The A List
* b. Stretching the Stockpile
* c. Get It Now While Supplies Last
* d. Crash Course
2. Our Health In Our Hands
* a. Coming Soon to a Theater Near You
* b. Coughs and Sneezes…
* c. Washing Your Hands of the Flu
* d. There’s the Rub
* e. Masking Our Ignorance
3. Be Prepared
* a. Home Health Aid
* b. Collateral Damage
* c. Corpse Management
* d. Bird Flu Vultures Lining Up
* e. “We have learned very little…
* f. “In the absence of a pandemic…
-Michael
Michael Greger, M.D.
(240) 328–4615
mhg1@cornell.edu
http://www.BirdFluBook.org
michaelgreger – at 10:37 Goodluck in Cincy tommrrow. I’m trying to send some people your way.
(Good luck on your tour, Dr. Michael Greger, and thank you.)
Ooh - off to read what you wrote about Corpse Management - (have you seen the Mass Fatality Management threads?) (forget lunch)
Hey; I can type in color! When I don’t mean to ! Woohoo!
(sorry folks)
Wow Doc!!!!! Just read her response to you. She deserves to be posted here to get the facts straight.
Amazing… thats all I can say.
Thank you for recommending that I post a rebuttal on this site.
In the interest of full disclosure, it should be noted that on November 3, 2006 Dr. Greger emailed me, stating he had lost his review of my book, “FOWL! Bird Flu: It’s Not What You Think”, which he had written in June, 2006. He was inquiring to see if I still had his review and if I did, could I please send it to him.
I had concerns that he was tracking down this information for reasons other than the one he stated…that he “felt bad” for not responding to my comments sooner. It appears I was correct. I requested that he keep our exchange private and as a fellow physician and a professional, trusted that he would. This was ignored and further breached by his offer to email my reply to anyone who requested it.
The desire for privacy “at this time” stemmed from one specific reason: On July 29, 2006, our medical office was completely destroyed by a fire. We lost everything, including all our patient medical records. I am working day and night to rebuild our business, serve our patients and save the livelihoods of the 17 people who work at OsteoMed II, my medical clinic in Cleveland, Ohio. I have neither a government job nor the support of a major publisher to fall back on. Therefore, as much as I would enjoy participating in a lively, ongoing debate, I don’t have time right now to engage in polemics on internet blogs. I made that clear in the email I sent to Dr. Greger. However, his post contains comments that demand my reply.
One more comment: His review posted here is based his examination of the first edition (small run) of FOWL! that was released in April, 2006. He fails to note that his suggestions—and criticisms—were appreciated and many were incorporated into the updated (and much larger)second edition of FOWL! released in August, 2006.
My book is intended to be controversial. It is not a recitation of mainstream thought and conventional medical/WHO dogma. I wrote it to make people think outside the box and to encourage everyone to question what they are being “”sold as truth”“ about the “coming pandemic.”
Below is the letter that I sent to Dr. Greger on July 12, 2006. I apologize in advance: It is a long post for a blog, but I wanted my entire response to be available to those who were interested in reading it.
Dr. Sherri Tenpenny Cleveland, Ohio www.BirdFluHype.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ July 12, 2006
Dear Michael:
Thank you for your review and commentary, and except for the unabashed sarcasms and personal attacks, I found at least some of your comments informative. It is obvious that you read the book with a fine-toothed comb, intentionally seeking out errors. Criticism is a great teacher, and I appreciate the time that you took to go through the book to make your points. Several of your suggestions will be incorporated into the new edition of the book that has been fully edited by a New York Times professional editor.
However, some of your observations are simply inaccurate and, unfortunately, you missed the overall point of the book. The book was written in an attempt to get people (including officials such as yourself) to examine evidence that has either been overlooked or ignored: Environmental contamination is creating the backdrop for the potential of a global pandemic. You claim to be “no lover of allopathic medicine,” however you do not seem to have a grasp on the underlying cause of disease in humans and animals alike: A toxic terrain and an unhealthy immune system.
Here are the responses to some of your comments: 1. Your comment: Assertion that whether birds become ill or not has little to do with “pathogenicity” of the virus and everything to do with the state of health of the birds is likely completely untenable (p. 171).
“Response”: The book argues that the underlying reason for illness in humans and birds—is chemical contamination, including environmental and pharmaceutical toxicities. An unhealthy immune system is a breeding ground for influenza viruses. We could have a pandemic in the future, but not because of the “unproven theory” of a virus jumping species and causing wide spread illness. At the 1st Bird Flu Summit, several scientists challenged officials from the FAO and the OIE about this wholly embraced premise being presented as fact even though it is nothing more than a convenient theory. I was there to hear this discussion; you were not. Humans and birds are continually exposed to infectants—virus, bacteria, fungal or protozoan. They actually become ill due to breaches in the host’s immune system. If that were not the case, they would succumb from contact with the first microbe.
2. Regarding your comments about the death rate:
“Response”: The 50–62% death rate being claimed by the WHO is a scare tactic. In the words of Dr. John Allen Paulos, professor of mathematics at Temple University, it is an “almost textbook case” of sample bias. Because asymptomatic people aren’t part of the mortality rate calculations, the numbers are skewed substantially upward. (REF: Paulos, John Allen. Who’s Counting: Flu Deaths, Iraqi Dead Numbers Skewed, ABC News.) However, I will remove the phrase mathematical absurdity.
3. Regarding your comments about aspartame
“Response”: Apparently you are not familiar with the work of Russell Blaylock, MD, board certified neurosurgeon who also has a successful private nutritional practice. Here’s information from his book, Excitotoxins, The Taste that Kills: (pg 212).
When Dr. John Olney pointed out these findings to the FDA ‘Aspartame Board of Inquiry’ he was told that the high incidence of tumors was the result of spontaneous development of brain tumors in rats….After a review of the incidence of spontaneously occurring brain tumors in rats, it was found that in seven studies using a total of 59,000 rats, only 0.08% developed brain tumors—the aspartame fed rats had a 47-fold higher incidence. But to be fair, he even accepted G.D. Searle’s references for spontaneously developing brain tumors in rats and arrived at a figure of 0.15%. This was still a 25-fold higher incidence in the aspartame fed rats than in the controls.
However, at your suggestion, I agree that the language in the book should be changed from nearly all animals tested to a high proportion of experimental animals.
4. Your comment: The book’s ridiculing of those who think migratory birds are contributing to the spread of H5N1 is misguided. No one agrees with your position that they play no role.
“Response”: These comments are not *ridicule.* They are assertions. It is patently incorrect to say that no one agrees with this position. Scientists disagree on this point, but ever more are agreeing that there is no hard evidence proving that wild, migratory birds spread H5N1 to poultry, and therefore, the risk of spreading this virus—or others—to humans would also nominal. In fact, many scientists have stated that it is unlikely that migratory birds are spreading H5N1, including wildfowl experts from Wildlife International and The US Fish and Wildlife Service. (REF: THE SCIENTIST. Feb. 28, 2006). If H5N1 were spread by migratory birds, outbreak patterns over the last two years would have been different in poultry and would have been seen more widespread. If this is true for H5N1, it would generally be true for virus HxNy of the future.
5. Your comment: You supposition that viruses and bacteria may be here on the planet to induce sickness to detoxify us is unbelievable (p. 224). You suggest that if someone dies of pneumonia that it may just have been the body’s attempt at detoxifying and it may have gone fine if the person hadn’t gotten all those “chemicals” like “antibiotics and aspirin.” No comment.
“Response”: The wording of that section was presented at a theory, an idea, challenging the Germ Theory of Disease, supported by the discussion of Pasteur and Bechamp. This does not fit into the allopathic paradigm but is certainly supported by principles of Chinese medicine and homeopathy. Your ridicule of my comment clearly demonstrates your lack of understanding of the health of the body vs. western concepts of disease management. See how enraged, including name calling, medical types become when the Germ Theory is challenged?
Similarly, the same “outrage” appears when the true efficacy of vaccines is challenged despite the evidence that is presented. Detoxification of chemicals to improve health is not a consideration in the Western Medicine paradigm (and, by the way, drugs ARE chemicals.) However, debating this concept with you—which I would be glad to do at another place and/or time—is neither the point of the book nor the point of this response.
6. Your comment: Why would Tamiflu resistant variants be any more likely to trigger a pandemic? In fact the evidence suggests the opposite as Dr. Tenpenny points out in the next paragraph (p. 133). Saying the virus isn’t necessarily harmless is knocking down a straw person that even Roche never said. Her saying it could create an “aggressive mutant” has no biological basis (p. 136).
“Response”: Actually, the use of Tamiflu can create viruses that are 300-fold to 1,000,000-fold more resistant than viruses that had no prior exposure to Tamiflu. Tamiflu-created mutants are a very real “concern for the FDA.” Read the original memo to find that I have not taken this out of context. The FDA, the WHO and dozens of countries around the world are banking (literally) on the fact that Tamiflu will be able to stop the spread of a pandemic if/when it occurs. If a highly pathogenic influenza mutant virus results from use of Tamiflu, this is a better theoretical basis for the start of a global pandemic than the *species jumping* premise embraced by officials. You are contradicting yourself by stating it has no biological basis.
7. Your comment: You imply that the only reason H5N1 is toxic to migratory fowl is because of a combination of dioxins, other pollutants and radiation is not supported by the available evidence.
“Response”: “”This is exactly the point.”“ No one is examining this premise because of the myopic focus on the germ as the ONLY problem. In experimental mice, dioxin + low pathogenic influenza increases—even doubles—the death rate. An examination of birds to see if they died as a result of dioxin (or other chemicals) + influenza has not been undertaken; or if it has, it is buried in obscure literature that not readily found. Something is making the birds sick, setting up an opportunistic environment for influenza viruses, particularly HPAI viruses. You missed one of the main points of the book: Someone should be investigating this! Death of wildlife may be a sign we are reaching an environmental tipping point of severe chemical contamination throughout the world that will eventually affect us all.
8. Your comment: The implication that people who died with H5N1 might not have died of H5N1, and instead just died of something like COPD. The age group with the most confirmed cases of H5N1? Ages 0 through 9. Children don’t die of COPD.
“Response”: Children do have asthma and do get pneumonia; that was included in the text. You missed that. In addition, stating that the largest group that have died have been children, with the total number of deaths worldwide less than 150, has little relativity overall. In fact, it is nit picking.
9. Your comment: The book also implies 1918 was so bad because of war and the resulting malnutrition, but the pandemic struck every country of the world (except American Samoa thanks to the U.S. Navy) with devastating effects, belligerents and nonbelligerent alike. And to suggest it was the poison gas—people died all over the world, it was a pandemic. There was no poison gas in Alaska.
“Response”: Again, you missed the point. The normal death distribution from season influenza includes the very old and the very young. In the 1918 Pandemic, men between the ages of 20 and 40 were the most common victims; in fact, men were 35 percent more likely than women to die from flu. The Pandemic was mild in China and in other parts of the world, even considered the three day flu. The flu seemed to subside suddenly and without explanation. Historical documentations report, “This statistic is left unexplained in the history books, but perhaps, exposes a clue that requires further exploration.” In addition, you don’t have proof that poison gas was NOT in Alaska.
What I actually said was this:
Pollen has been discovered deep in the ice of Antarctica. Dust from China has been delivered to the U.S. through the air after massive wind storms. The smoke and particulates from the massive timber fires in Indonesia were measured in the air on the other side of the globe. Satellite instruments showed that sulfur dioxide released during the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo, Philippines, in 1991 circumvented the globe in only three weeks, and then slowly dispersed to cover much of the Earth in the following two years. The idea of phosgene, mustard gas, chlorine gases, and the 30-odd other chemicals released into the environment during three years of daily explosions finding their way around the globe and causing health problems thousands of miles from their course is not as outrageous as it might initially seem.
10. Your comment: The societal and healthcare advances the book claims are conveniently ignored and imply they would significantly cut down on mortality these days is naïve.
“Response”: One of the biggest achievements of public health is proper hygiene. We can invest in ventilators or soap. No further comment necessary.
11. Your comment: With no evidence the book implies that vaccinations actually contributed to influenza deaths or even somehow triggered pandemics. You note polio vaccinations began in 1955, and there was a pandemic 1957. U.S. GIs received vaccines before the start of 1968 pandemic and in 1918? Well, you note smallpox vaccination been going on since late 1800s. To suggest causation is fallacious.
“Response”: I have personally invested more than 7,500 hours of research into problems associated with vaccines, including an intense review of CDC documents and medical literature. This is not the time, the place nor the format for that debate. However, vaccines have been shown unequivocally to disrupt—and even suppress—the immune system.
The core concept of this book, which you seem to have missed altogether, is that suppression of the immune system is making the world’s inhabitants—humans and birds—more susceptible to influenza, both *garden variety* and highly pathogenic. Vaccines will not be the answer, and more than likely, will cause more problems overall.
I would like it too. ittybittiblond at aol dot com
Thank you!
Welcome Dr. Sherri Tenpenny to Fluwikie
I think it is great that you have posted this here. All viewpoints are important.
I hope you post often.
Geeze guys/gals, I tried to get you to look into this book a few weeks ago. But glad someone did, and I find this “debate” interesting. Finely, a public statment about aspartame. You really don’t need someone to tell you that stuff is bad for you!
When a professional takes a jab at another medical professional with personal attacks accompanied with a miopic mindset is a shame. It’s refreshing to see Dr. Tenpenny’s professional response which she gave with great class. I find that Dr. Greger’s support for a vaccine for the pandemic is on shaky ground considering how there has been little put out in the media to support it’s marketed “benefits”. I’m sorry, but if my family is always sick while I’m injecting them with “preventative” treatment by way of vaccines, there’s something wrong. Then when I put a halt to the Hep b, chickenpox, pneumococcal…and other shots and my kids stop running fevers and developing ear infections, I have to wonder what true benefits come from those d*** shots. Where are all the healthy vaccinated and drugged people? The flu shot is pure crap better left for the dead dogs. It’s therefore impossible to believe that a bird flu shot would be the cure all. Where as once I was open minded to taking shots and having them given to my kids like candy, I’ve chosen the less toxic approach for prevention. All based on bad adverse reactions in the past. And on the subject of aspartame….Yes, I’d have to agree that that too is *&%@! better left for the fools who could care less of the consequences. If you see nothing wrong with it, you can’t possibly know well enough and or you don’t care enough to get all the facts on all of it’s dangerous components.
Kimberly-
I’m not by any means a health nut, I’m just a common sense nut, or at least I try to be. While I was pregnant for my first child, Of course I wanted to do what was best for my child. I read both the pro’s and con’s of vaccinations, and the realization I can too, is “damn if you do and damn if you don’t. I choose the lesser of the two evils, and realized that yes, we need vaccination. It does serve a purpose. Can you imagine this world right now, with it’s 6 million + people, and no one is vaccinated, and all these deadly diseases running rampant now? Imagine the death toll. Look at Africa, and surrounding countries. Vaccinations do have a place in our civilized world. And like everything else, we have to take the good with the bad. Of course you have a choice, but it’s not a choice I would recommend as a new trend.
correction- 6 billion
bump
bump
Cottontop, Common sense told me to research vaccines all the way back to the very beginning to better understand the benefit/risk argument. After three years of reading scientific and medical journals AND researching through the CDC site, my family at least, I am of the opinion is much better off. American children are the most vaccinated in the world, yet they are the least healthy in the world. Common sense says vaccines apparently don’t make a big enough difference. I would have to repeat my question, “Where are all the healthy vaccinated people? Where are all the healthy vaccinated elderly who get the flu shot every year?” In the case of children, “Where are all the healthy vaccinated kids?” In CDC’s MMWR 1995 report they literally admitted to a minimum of 500,000 vaccine induced injuries in America a year between 1990–1995. Common sense says, “No thanks.”
cottontop at 19:33 - Can you imagine this world right now, with it’s 6 million + people, and no one is vaccinated, and all these deadly diseases running rampant now?
It’s also nice to think of it from this point of view. Can you imagine all the people in the world having a source of good clean water, minimally decent nutrition, absence of life-stealing toxins in the soils and the environment, and ability to grow their crops? Could go a long way towards allowing people to overcome disease when it does occur - and, they’d then have better quality, a more rounded set of antibodies than what a vaccine provides.
I’m not downplaying the risk from certain serious diseases. But decent levels of certain nutritional factors really do help snuff the effects of some of these diseases. Then there is homeopathy and other methods.
Vaccines contain a lot of bad stuff, and can create more of same in the body. After some years of research, I am utterly convinced of that. We are trading the evil of the original disease for the evils of more, sometimes chronic, diseases. Being informed of these things, some people do opt to choose their fate carefully.
Kimberly-
Until vaccines were developed, thousands of children died, ot to mention thousands of men and women. I will say that I’m too fond of this whole vaccination thing, but as I stated ealier, it is the lesser of the two evils, and if it means choosing to let my children die, or give them a chance to survive, well….
I really do think you are confusing what is happening to the American people with vaccinations. It is the lifestyle of the American people, that produce such unhealthy people, not vaccines. Look at other developed countries, such as Canada, England, ect., that have the same vaccination rate as we do, compare their lifestyles to ours, and tell me there is a differnce in those vaccinated people. There isn’t. They have an unhealthy lifestyle just as we do, and they are just a physically sick as Americans. I can’t, in good common sense, beleive that vaccines are the number one contributer of unhealthy Americans. And there again with the elderly, it all goes back to mainly how healthy they lived their lives. The body goes through a natural “decaying” process, and yes when your 70, your body is going to reflect that. I can’t see where being vaccinated makes an elderly unhealthly. Remove the unhealthy lifestlye than get back to me. But even common sense will tell you, that vaccinated or not, disease will strike you. I personally did not find a strong enough argument to be against it.
Dr Tenpenny - so sorry to hear about the fire. I wish you the best of luck in rebuilding and recoving. I also appreciate you taking the time to publish your comments/response to Dr. Greger. I think you make a number of interesting observations.
The more information we can garner - especially when this inforamtion comes from opposing viewpoints - the better decisions we can all make and the better informed we will be.
To everyone that thinks vaccines do more harm than good, well, show me how many people today have smallpox? Polio? etc.
I’m sure Native Americans of the past would have something to say about smallpox. It was their H5N1. They certainly didn’t have vast amounts of toxins in their system.
JWB- I totally believe we need vaccinations. I don’t beleive they are 100% good for us, but I am will to live with the lesser of the two evils. It just scares me that this kind of thinking will catch on, and the next thing you know, the devestation from diseases will be mind blowing.
Us older Fluwikians can surely remember the early 1950s when polio was causing school closures, deaths of classmates, and lifelong sequelia to the surviors. I, for one, am **** glad that Dr. Salk (and later Dr. Sabin ) did all the work to develop a vaccine. And now the world is trying to get to the point with polio that they are with smallpox.Kudos to the vaccine developers.
The mentality of the true dangers of vaccinations and their unfounded “benefits” IS catching on. THANK GOODNESS. If you believe that’s the danger then you’re missing all the media coverage of outbreaks occuring amongst populations labeled by the experts as “fully vaccinated” against the very disease outbreaks are still occuring. From Pertussis, to Measles to Chickenpox…etc. Yes, kudos to the vaccine developers alright.
Kimberly: “American children are the most vaccinated in the world, yet they are the least healthy in the world.”
two thoughts, baaad food, and the powerty in the US is similar as in a developing country..
I live in a country who realy is among the best vacinated ones, and the only cases we have are from imigrants from africa, pakistan etc…
There are anumber of isues going on in this world, try to get a bigger picture please.
Kimberly @ 16:55-
The reason we are seeing emergence of such diseases now, is because they are making a comeback due to over use of antiboitcs, and mutation. New strains are emerging that we have nothing to use to fight them with. This world of nature is always one step ahead of us. Imigrants bring in totally new strains with them. Doctors and scientists can not keep up. And the vaccine developers can only create a vaccine against what is currently cirulating, or however this process is carried out. You and I are not doctors, and we cannot begin to comprehend the complexities of bacterias, viruses, and the whole process of making vaccines that can eradicate disease, at least for the time being, until a new strain emerges to takes it’s place, then we have to start all over again. If you really want to make your case crystal clear as to why vaccines are “bad”, might I suggest that you provide some scientific proof with your posts, creditable, no blogs, real crediable scientists, and doctors, so we all here at the fluwiki can read it, and understand more were you are coming from.
I will anyway agree on some issues with the vacination industry. The thing we are witnessing now regariding pandemic vacine, is close to blackmailing. They claim they will not be able to produce significant amounts of vacine for a pandemic strain in a reasonable time unless the states of the world starts buying ecual amounts of sesonal vacine…! They are a buisniss, and it understandable that they will have their investments and production facilities running, but I say this is just another reason why private enterprices should not be in charge of public health..
Also there is fact that many vacinanation campagins have destroyed human lives.. Here in Norway there is now a aftermatch of some babies born 20–30 years ago with severe damage, they got their money and the health dep has agreed on the issue. Thats why we need to monitor this science. There are chemicals in some vacines before and maybe now that is not good. But an overall view tells us that some sick is better than thusands sicks and dead..
Dr: Tenpenny: Please give me hollistic explanation on how come that my body decided to detox it self one week ago, with the result that my nose is running and some yellow goo is in my trhoath? Maybe its becuase I was getting the radoactive rain in my head back in 1986 when Tsjernobyl popped? If this is so, how come that my girlfriends body also startet detoxing it self 3 days prior to mine, and she was 310 miles south of me in 86, behind a mountain chain that prevented the same raincload from Tshernobyl from reaching hers area.. Is it carma???
Or maybe its as simple that when we kissed I got the cold virus form here sweet mouth… We have a name for your kind here, its similar with the english one, its called Kvakksalver.
Why is so that some tinfoil theorist are so clever when it comes to the complicated, layered proceses, but fails so gigantic when it comes to explaining the obviois, the things that is right in front of everybodys noses. Why cant “chem cloud” theorists not find a better theory than “pasangers jets spraying posion in the sky”? Did they fail so utterly in physicks at children school? Have they never seen their own breath a cold winterday?
If anyone want to engage in the issues of pollution, there are a number of flayvors to schoose from, starting with Greenpeace. If not I would shut up and stop taking focus away from the problems that are for real, and needs to be dealt with. The title of this tread is clear, its a hype..
It amazes me that a discussion about vaccines almost always turns into a heated debate…and can nearly come to blows. Why? Why is there such strong polarization about using drugs called vaccines? Why are we so hostile toward those who choose to not use them? It is important to remember that people do not blindly make the decision to refuse vaccines.
Vaccination is not a religion and doesn’t belong in the same context as a discussion about abortion or euthansia. However, that same level of hostility can emerge when people talk about vaccines. I’ve seen this discussion literally tear families apart. Why?
Do we scream at each other about the use of antibiotics? Certainly the lack of using soap has caused more infections than the lack of using vaccines has allowed. Yet we hold the use of vaccines in such a sacred place that you’d think humanity would be extinct from the onslought of microbes without vaccines.
I have found that those who are ‘under informed’ about the full scope of vaccines scream the loudest and make the most demands about their mandatory use. The vast majority who become informed decide that the risks of the vaccines are greater than the risks of the mostly-benign diseases they are designed to protect. People often come to realize that they can get the vaccine—and assume all the risks of the vaccine—and still get the infection…..and then opt to refuse.
Smallpox? Polio? Do some research before you use that argument for the forced use of vaccines. Take a look at my powerpoint…it has many articles from the conventional medical literature documenting the problems caused by vaccines: ttp://www.nationalautismconference.org/presentations/tenpenny.ppt
I’m sorry, Dr., but my observations of those of extreme views who are “coming to blows” are pretty much reversed from your assertions. Including a casual reading of the response in this forum as well. The most energetic responses are anecdotes from an opponent of vaccinations, whose primary question is “where are all the healthy vaccinated people?”, without any obvious regard to the fact for her that the early use of vaccines did seem to eliminate the problems of having the serious diseases presumably prevented by the vaccines. My understanding of vaccines is they are to prevent specific diseases (and their frequent and severe damage to the person’s health), and the expectation that they would produce “healthy” people is an error in expectations, not a failure on the part of vaccines. I grew up in a very poor area, where the only vaccine I know anybody got was polio at school (federal program). In this unvaccinated population, there were lots of ear infections, fevers, runny noses, along with the various diseases now commonly immunized against, leaving more than a few scarred, with heart and health problems, or dead. And having had a few of these illnesses, I will submit they are a miserable, not to be forgotten experience. As well as my younger brother died at 29 from a heart complications from an infection caught at the tail end of his measles illness as a child. These are still anecdotes, I would oppose vaccines if I could see any numbers even remotely to indicate that would make the trade-off worth their elmination. The numbers are overwhelming for their effectiveness. Perhaps you mistake incredulity at your conclusions for hostility. To not grab a life-preserver in stormy seas because you might get a friction burn from its hard surface seems a startling conclusion.
Dr. Tenpenny:
Your comments about the chemical contamination are right on target. First we get reports of Tefelon, and the buttery taste of our popcorn causing factory workers to need lung transplants, chemical leaching of plastics into food and water, then the devasting clinical study reports that babies are growing in a toxic dump in utero. Our bodies have become a crockpot for chemical wastes and there will never be a vaccine for that.
I was glad to see that concerned parents went to the CDC to discuss giving mercury vaccines to young babies and pregnant women. People should demand and have the right to expect vaccines without mercury contamination because of what we know from clinical tests on mercury inside the body and long term effects. Mercury in vaccines is there primarily because no one wants to spend the money to convert it out of the vaccines, and this is a multibillion industry who puts profit before people and public health.
Oh yes, the other vaccine we got was smallpox. Which nobody fell ill of! Thankfully! You could make a horror movie simply consisting of pictures of people with smallpox.
I am also confused by the idea that mercury in vaccines is a case against vaccines. You shouldn’t have mercury in vaccines. Insist on mercury free vaccines! Why would this argue against vaccines themselves?
FiddlerDave:
Until 2001 every vaccine had mercury in it. Now, there are different levels but still present-meantine the number of vaccines going up and times of boosters going up making quite a lot of mercury contamination. Second, California just relaxed the no mercury law because they wanted kids vaccinated for seasonal flu. So, the question is why didn’t the doctors who give the flu vaccine to kids pre-order enough mercury free vaccine or just mercury free vaccines? See, this is more than confusing to me, why debate it, just give kids mercury free vaccines. It should just be so, but it would take more research and money to take it all out, and no one is making them do it except for the people who are questioning it. Here’s one for you. Do you know the mercury level in your flu vaccine or did you just stick your arm out? Don’t feel bad (99% of people who take vaccines couldn’t answer). After you look it up, look up long term health effects of mercury in body. Decide yourself.
People aren’t against vaccines, they’re against the adjuvants that go in them like mercury, aluminum and formaldehyde, plus they want more research to explain what is happening to the ones who do get sick from them, istead of ignoring them. If you mandate them for daycare and school attendance maybe the states should pay for those that fall ill. People and this includes me don’t like PC vaccines-an example being HEp B to babies, babies not born of drug addicts or to parents with hepatitis. Another example, some kid dies of flu, the parents want the death to mean something so they lobby congress to make flu shots recommended and next step is flu shots for babies are mandatory. For now there is an option out—but if they become fully mandatory nationwide-someone is going to have to foot the bill for the ones unlucky enough to have bad reactions.
A sample of our FluWiki vaccine threads is noted in my NS1 profile.
My standing is well to the farthest edges with Dr. Tenpenny and Leo7 after similar amounts of research.
Leo, I’m generally against vaccines (maybe not all of them), and not because of the adjuvants. Vaccines may be saving the lives of more children, but they are a significant reason why chronic health problems are rampant in adults. That trade-off may be worth it, but it will never be officially acknowledged.
Dear Fiddler: Thank you for your respectful, albeit different view. I do beg to differ, however, that you think what I said represents an “extreme view.” I consider it an informed view.
I started my career giving vaccines—lots of them—as a Board Certified ER doc and director of a busy emergency department. I held that position for more than 12 years. Serendipity led me to start questioning vaccines. Now, after logging well over 7500 hours of personal time since September, 2000 researching the conventional medical literature and the CDC/WHO documents, I have found large inconsistencies in the generally accept dogma regarding the *truth* about vaccines.
For example, the “safety” of a vaccine is determined after only a few days of observation. In most studies the observation period is less than 21 days. In addition, most “safety” studies don’t compare a new vaccine to inert substance; the study compares the side effects of the new vaccine to a side effect profile of another, existing vaccine. If both vaccines have equal side effects, the new one is deemed “safe.”
Consequently there are legitimate grounds for suspecting that many vaccine reactions are taking place unrecognized weeks, months or even years after the person has been injected. Here are a few examples: 1- S Nouno et al (1990) did before-and-after testing of 61 children with epilepsy or a history of febrile seizures which showed significant increases in “epileptic spikes” on electroencephalograms following DTP, DT, or BCG vaccines. (Acta Paediatr Japan, Aug., 1990; 32(4):357–360)
2-Research by Farhad et al (2001) demonstrated that childhood viral immunizations can induce atopic reactions (allergies). (Clin Immunol - 01-Sep-2001; 100(3): 355–61)
3-“There is no doubt that the new recombinant hepatitis B virus vaccine has the ability to trigger autoimmunity.” Cohen AD. Vaccine-induced autoimmunity. (J Autoimmun. 1996 Dec;9(6):699–703. PMID: 9115571)
I’ve also learned that in vaccine research “effective” isn’t a synonym for “protection.” In vaccine language effective simply means that injection of an antigen caused the development of an antibody. Period. Even the esteemed research journal Vaccine admits that “It is known that, in many instances, antigen-specific antibody titers do not correlate with protection. In addition, very little is known on parameters of cell-mediated immunity which could be considered as surrogates of protection.” PMID: 11587808
There has been *very little* research on healthy, unvaccinated populations. Why? Do you really think that the vaccine industry would fund studies that could show unvaccinated kids are healthier than vaccinated kids? (If Vioxx is a big lawsuit, what would that be?)
However, two small published studies suggest this to be true:
1-CONCLUSION: DTP or tetanus vaccination appears to increase the risk of allergies and related respiratory symptoms in children and adolescents. PMID: 10714532
2-CONLUSION: Parents who refuse vaccinations reported less asthma and allergies in their unvaccinated children…Further research is needed to verify these results and investigate which exposures are driving the associations between vaccination refusal and allergic disease. PMID: 15805992
Like the expression, “all politics is local”, the reality of a vaccine reaction is its occurrence in the person. However, most vaccine research is designed to look for injury trends in large populations, not at the individual. One has to wonder if the epidemiological studies are specifically designed to dismiss the significance of injuries in each person. The VAERS database logs more than 12,000 reports of vaccine injury per year. This does not prove causality and causality is difficult to prove. In my opinion, that is mostly because the literature and the Vaccine Injury Compensation Table are stacked against identifying causality!
People across the country are waking up and speaking out against what they are allowing to be injected into their bodies, and the bodies of their children. They are no longer accepting that injecting viruses, bits of bacteria and traces of chemicals into their infants is a way to keep them well. Too many have personal experience with adverse effects to continue to accept that high vaccination rates and low infection rates are the only measure of Public Health.
BTW…Dr. Tom Mack, who was part of the CDC eradication program in the 1970s, saw more than 120 outbreaks in Pakistan throughout. He spoke at the CDC Town Meeting in Atlanta (June, 2002)that I attended. He said that villages apparently had an importation of smallpox every 5–10 years, “regardless of vaccination status, and the outbreak could always be predicated by living conditions and social arrangements. There were many small outbreaks and individual cases that *never came to the attention* of the local authorities.” [Therefore, not everyone died of smallpox…and even the 30% death rate projection, according to Dr. Mack, was overstated.] His opinion was that even without mass vaccination, “Smallpox would have died out anyway. It just would have taken longer.”
In my continuing defense for [my] position I don’t mind giving some “reference”. Looking at the FDA and the CDC’s compiled VAERS database [www.vaers.org]I can’t help but get the “bigger picture”. I am well aware that antibiotics have seriously contributed to the many health problems witnessed in Ameica today. I am also well aware of the fact that antibiotics are only PART of the problem. To keep up with the “bigger picture” it’s important to keep up with the global current events [health] which I have been doing for over three years now. Dr. William Atkinson of CDC has been graciously replying to many inquiries.
The belief that the only diseases seen are the ones being transported from obroad is a very misguided and complacent mindset. Many countries are not experiencing the growing scrutiny towards vaccinations as is the U.S. due to the lack of awareness. Poverty has very little to do with the state of health in a country. I come from a third world country myself.
We continue to be provided coverage on pertissis outbreaks and chickenpox outbreaks (to name JUST A FEW) which have been admitted by health officials to take place amongst the fully vaccinated: -“Outbreak of Varicella at a Day-Care Center despite Vaccination” NEJM Volume 347:1909–1915 Number 24 - Infectious Episodes Following Diphtheria Pertussis Tetanus Vaccination Clinical Pediatrics Oct 1988 -Journal of American Medical Association, April 25th, 1931, pp, 137a-6
To say that no one fell ill due to the smallpox vaccine is a very uneducated statement. CDC is very well aware of the risks [including that of death] due to the vaccine from past and current mass vaccinations and trials. They have a site dedicated to the issue of the disease and the vaccine http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/ listing what can happen [obviously because it has].
Thanks to professionals such as Dr. Tenpenny, Dr. Russell Blaylock, Dr. John Martin, Dr. David Weldon…and even CDC individuals are aware of the BIG PICTURE and are, therefore, better able to make an educated decision no matter which side of the vaccination issue we fall on. People shouldn’t have to allow their children to be vaccinated just because the doctor said so or because most “everyone does” it. Vaccinations should not be a casually accepted and mandated practice.
Others have posted their opinions for and against vaccines but I’m the only common layman that has been asked of to provide material to back up my opinions. I gather that’s only because I make my opinions quite strong. Like thousands of other parents, I am not “certified” in the field, but that does not make me incapable of getting “the big picture”. I get it alright.
Kimberley,
Thank you for providing this beneficial information!
Are you using natural foods and plants to balance your children’s immune function so that they will develop the proper antibody response to common pathogens that are being shed regularly by the vaccinated children?
Thank you Kimberly for providing the information. Now, the really big question is, how do you propose this problem be corrected? If vaccines are eliminated, how do we, (as a world populace) control disease, and the spread of deadly diseased?
NS1, My kids are incredibly picky eaters. Thus I have to literally supplement…with supplements. Pricey, but cheap compared to medical consequences if I don’t make sure they get exactly what they need. Sugar is an enemy in our house. Taking my family off sugar is also of benefit. I don’t claim to have perfectly healthy children. They still manage to be challenged by exposure from time to time. In that case, I do keep things handy. I believe one of my kids got what appeared to be flu-like symptoms last year. He was given a regular regiment of silver and wild oregano. Had the situation escalated beyond my abilities, I would have resorted to the ER. Fortunately, that wasn’t the case. It appeared he had passed it on to only one sibling. Gave all four kids the same remedy to help them all fight the exposure from him. So, with that supplemental help, the younger two never came down with it. I don’t deny the existance of influenza and the possibility of a pandemic. I believe that the decreasing quality in what we as a society consume can contribute to a pandemic. Sanitation practices, lifestyles, environmental pollution…etc. will determine our ability [or inability] to successfully avoid a pandemic and or being a victim during one. I am not a fan of how the fear of a pandemic is being hyped up and marketed. It’s incredibly unnecessary and Dr. Tenpenny’s WELL DOCUMENTED book makes that obviously clear. To resort to name calling because one has no desire to engage in a segmented piece [pollution] of the topic of this thread [book] is a clear lack of class.
Cottontop, I have the inability to give a blue print on global disease prevention. There are hundreds of thousands of “things” from human consumption to medical prescriptions, to environmental pollutions that contribute to the ongoing harm inflicted on the human body. Many of those things are not only suppressing our immune system, but they are also nearly impossible to eliminate. Mercury is not just in vaccines, tuna fish prescriptions…it’s in the air we breath too. Not everybody can afford decent bottled water. Not everyone can afford purely organic food.
I do not believe that in the conditions we as a society live, it is possible to achieve the ultimate goal of disease prevention/control. I do not believe it is possible to attain 100% control of deadly diseases either. I do beleive it is possible to decrease current health problems by decreasing the use of vaccines to a great degree.
It is the responsibility of each and every individual to take care of themselves as best as possible making the best possible choices with ALL factual information provided from health professionals and scientists. A wise individual will question all claims of prevention by way of harmful medical procedures before making the decision to engage. A wise person will question what seams logical. Research and educate yourselves. What you don’t know can hurt you. Complacency can be dangerous and deadly.
Sustainable living practices
Beef FeedLots generate a product that has 98–100% E. Coli 157 (EHEC) in late July and most of August each year in the U.S. due to overcrowding, unhealthy animals and improper feed.
We’ve created hundreds of zoonotic occasions in the past ten years with our commercial animal husbandry scientific techniques.
Time to return to a more stable substrate.
Dr. Tenpenny,
Thank you for the wonderful information. Please continue to post. I have past your comments along to several friends. I have also bought your book. You bring a certain balance to fluwiki. Many posters that share your views have left. It’s a shame. Thanks again and keep up the good work.