Forum: Anyone NOT Going to New Forum

I was wondering if anyone had tried the new forum and had decided NOT to use it and continue on here? I have a high speed internet connection and so can use the new forum without too much difficulty, although I find I have to go “back” constantly. If I had my old dial up connection I can see where the new format wouldn’t be all that feasible, due to the time it would take to load all of the links. I can definitely understand that the format here is more user friendly for slower connections. So are you going to stay here?

I gave it a try, but probably won’t be using the new forum much.

I have high speed wireless, so speed isn’t an issue.

User interface is a BIG issue. It’s horrible for non-techies.

Just too difficult to navigate, and I don’t need to spend HOURS reading “how to do it” postings, just so I can do simple navigation that should be intuitive.

Maybe if they offer RSS I can set that up and follow/filter the posts I want, but as it stands even this painful format is much less painful than the new one.

I realize a lot of work went into the new forum, but the first tenant of customer satisfaction was violated.

No focus group BEFORE the decision was made.

I’ll eat my words. Right now I have no interest in the new forum. Too complex.

But then I am dense. It took me two visits to the movie Casino Royale to get the entire mass of action, story and the acting nuances under my belt and completly comprehended to my satisfaction. Acting is a craft I understand. Electronics aren’t.

I really like to just read all of the info, don’t post much, but for what it’s worth, I hope that the new forum will be given a fair chance and that probably means a bit longer time period for organization, normalacy, etc. It’s a huge undertaking and IMHO deserves the opportunity to get any kinks straightened out where needed. My approach will be to let the dust settle a little bit and to not ruthlessly abandon so much genuine effort before making any final decisions.

I spent awhile at the new site a couple times and do not care for it.If I can get away with staying here and still getting the important content,I probably will.I reserve the right to change my mind of course ;)It wasn’t flowing easily for me,I am not a techie at all.

diana @ 11:31 you’ve mentioned casino royale about 4 times now that I know of. LOL It must be a really good movie.

As far as the new forum goes, it will take some getting used to, that’s for sure. I’m going to keep trying, I’m too afraid I would miss something. cosign with bluesfan.

I was just over there and it feels so good to be back here. I can’t even find the current news thread.Someone said yesterday it was like a puzzle. I agree. I feel like everything is hidden. This is not my site and I feel like I’m being critical. I am truly “grateflu” for all the thought and hard work that went into the new site.I wish “some” basic things could have remained unchanged. Kinda like a house “remodel” instead of a complete move to a new home.

Lohrewok. I’ve recommended it to just about everyone. Great bit of Acting on Danial Craigs part. The running action was incredable. Poor guy better stop doing his own stunts. Had two front teeth knocked out, and he hurt all the time. Never was a James Bond fan. Might be we are heading into James Bond times again with the poisoning in London.I’m fighting the impulse to go see it a third time.

Please don’t feel inhibited about criticizing. There are going to be two Forums for the time being and this one will get a minor upgrade to get rid of spam. Many of us will go back and forth as we get comfortable at both.

diana’s husband would love the new forum becuase of its bells and whistles. But some of you may just stay here and use it as a ‘storage facility’ much the way you use the wiki (or, better, don’t use the wiki). ;-)

Here is the ‘news’ section. Try going there only, for a while, for orientation.

I posted my first “comment” this AM…re confirmation of high-path in S Korea…

I must say that I’m not thrilled with the new set up…I know that the idea is to get away from fluwiki being just a “message board”…but I like the message board format. I’m sure I’ll adapt…and I think it will be a lot more interesting once everyone starts posting over there…right now, comments are only coming in at the rate of one every couple of hours…

I know that message board changes can lead to “mass evacuations”…A few years ago, I personally witnessed an extremely popular hurricane message board go “belly up” in a few weeks when the format was changed…Suprisingly, loyalty may not be a trait of all BB-ers

I think BG sums it all up real well - many of us don’t have time to learn the complexities of the new system. I’ve been there repeatedly, trying to read, hoping that at some point it will all just flash into crystal clarity . . . no luck, so far.

I can’t even figure out the simplest things. It’s the information I’m interested in, not so much the format - the only problem with this “old” Wiki has been the dead-dog-slowness of it. The new one may be faster, but if I can’t figure out how to find the information without much time consumed, I know I’m the one who will be the poorer for the absence of the Wiki, but I don’t know any alternative. If I have spent hours reading there, and still don’t understand even the most basic of how-to information, then I’m pretty sure there will be many others in the same predicament.

I sort of feel like this was decided by the people who wanted to work with the forum - the administration and such - and the people who are now going to be suffering because of that includes most of the rest of us. I’ve been online for about 10 years now, and I’ve never before seen a forum set-up that I couldn’t just sit down and begin using without having to learn anything except where the “post” button was on the page. I’m sorry guys, but I just don’t like it. I think our effort should be directed towards the flu, and this re-directs our efforts towards understanding computer technology. That’s just not the point.

I’m sure I’ll keep trying . . . for a while. The Wiki has always been a source of such good information, and I like the people here - but there are only so many hours in a day.

I sure wish the people who make up the Wiki had been given some voice before the fact in the direction that the forum was going to take.

Loyalty isn’t the issue. Lack of computer savvy might be. I think a lot of the posters are not internet babies. My oldest son learned his at Yale and went on to write primers. Both of my children are internet savvy to the nth degree. I also don’t like to do crossword puzzles or play bridge. A lot of people do. I avoid bridge like the plague. It is what one is comfortable doing. I like the crafts of writing, and acting, and watching physical performers who do things with their bodies I couldn’t dream of doing. Some of you have cut your teeth on the internet, sitting in your parents laps. I see kids doing things with electronics that astonish me. I am analog in a digital age.Many out there are.

Suprisingly, loyalty may not be a trait of all BB-ers

There will be people that stay here no matter what the other site accomplishes. One mistake we are not making is simply closing this site.

However, sites like daily kos and agonist have successfully made the transition and thrived and grew. Depends what people want.

We set out to build Flu Wiki. We didn’t set out to build a Forum. That just happened (and it’s wonderful that it did). But it’s not a subscription site. We don’t charge people. We don’t show ads.

So if we think we need to supplement this site with the other two (new Forum and Flu Wiki), we will. This all remains uncharted territory because the purpose we are doing this for has not changed.

PS In the end, what it may mean is that the Old Yeller site here becomes more manageable and the new site attracts new and different people. That’s not a bad thing.

I will use this site until it is gone or until it now longer has the data I need. I use it 100% for the forum especially news.

I tried the new one, but honestly I find myself using CE and FT, and NewsNow B/F more than ever to stay up to date. This is my favorite of course.

I thought agonist translated itself right out of the forum arena.

I didn’t realize that the Forum was seen as being so unimportant with regards to the Wiki. I had been working under the misconception that the Forum was a critical part of the Wiki. I know other forums that also do not charge people and do not show ads - I’m not sure what your point is with that.

I know and you know that the site belongs to the owners - who obviously have a purpose that may be at odds with the simple information gathering that many of us are doing.

I go back and forth between the two, plus I have added monotreme and CE to my list of sites to frequent to get the full picture in the past few weeks.

I am not realy techy but once I read something I usually remember it.

One thing I found at the new site is that if you find a thread/diary that you like you can bookmark it. There is a plus or minus sign next to the title and if you click on it—it takes you to your “hot” list of what you want to find quick.

Also if you go to your personal page you can track the diarys/threads you have made comments on or started and can be able to view in an instant if anyone has answered or made replys to you and the topic. I like that aspect but yea its a bit slow in people posting at the moment.

Well, I’m not going to “flame” the new site. I agree with Dem, in that for many, they will love the interactiveness (if that is a word)of it, while others will prefer the “old” bulletin board style of “old yeller” as it is now being called. :) The one thing that did occur to me, is that if there is a prolonged pandemic, and electricity in my rural location is lost, my only chance for getting onto the net would be through a phone line connection. I plan on having solar for my laptop, but I wouldn’t be able to run my wireless router, so I would have no other alternative other than dial up. I think in the emergency situation I can invision, this is the place I would come as it would be the easiest to access on a slow connection. In all of our preps we have “gone back to basics”, and I can see that at some point, simple might be better. And slow, might not be a bad thing. :)

Clawdia – at 12:20

I am relating to you how it happened chronologically, not how we rate importance. We wouldn’t be spending time and effort otherwise.;-)

KimT – at 12:22

Many do the same. There ought not to be one daily paper or one news channel and there ought not to be one site for everyone. We try to stay on good relations with everyone. If something does happen, we will need each other.

Snowhound1 – at 12:32

Redundancy is good. This might be a better place on dial-up (if we’re ALL on dial-up) or might be as slow as molasses in January. And Old Yeller is an affectionate term.

I’m on dial up now and I don’t have any problems getting to either site except the obvious and even people that had high speed had trouble getting in here at times.

I use high speed at work and have similar experiances with the net.

Maybe Its because I have several different projects going at the same time that I switch back and forth all the time.

I’m going to go back and forth between the old forum and the new one and continue to check three other forums daily besides. The old forum and the new forum will attract different users for different reasons. Perhaps, in the end, Flu Wiki will serve more users, and that will be good. The drawback is that, unless we are active on both, we will lose the benefit of thinking together with people who prefer one interface and not the other. We will be partly divided. That’s not to say that the new forum is a bad thing. The old one clearly couldn’t handle the traffic at times and thus limited participation that way.

Question: In the diaries view on the new forum, I gather that I’m seeing the diaries in order of their creation, most recent first, and not in the order of most recent activity. Is that right? I do value seeing threads here on the old forum with most recently active first.

[i]Snowhound1 – at 11:12

I was wondering if anyone had tried the new forum and had decided NOT to use it and continue on here? I have a high speed internet connection and so can use the new forum without too much difficulty, although I find I have to go “back” constantly. If I had my old dial up connection I can see where the new format wouldn’t be all that feasible, due to the time it would take to load all of the links. I can definitely understand that the format here is more user friendly for slower connections. So are you going to stay here? [/i]

People on dial up: the page opens faster if you have comments set as minimal. That way you only have to open the unread comments. Also if you open the comments in another tab or window you will not have the wait of going ‘back’

My recommendation: use the Side Bars

I tried to browse the new forum like I do it here i.e. scroll up and down. Well, it doesn’t work the same way. Then I realized that the new forum classifies the threads into Hot Tags on the left side bar.

To tune in to forum, just like when you walk into a roomful of people, I used to have to read all the threads at the top, open and closing each window. Now I just watch the Recent Comments on the left side bar underneath the Hot Tags. This works like a tickler tape.

It gets better. After I posted a question on this forum and signing off, when I come back, I have to find the thread and look for replies to my questions. With the new forum, all I have to do is to go to the right side bar, under Menu > Your Comments, I can find whether there was any reply.

I can also find new threads being created, on the right side bar “Recent Diaries”.

Best of all, no more anonymous posters, impersonators.

I don’t know html, and I don’t need to learn it to post, and as far as I know, I don’t need to use tinyurl to post links (I haven’t tried yet). Yes, I like the preview before posting.

I went over and gave the new site a try but I like this one better and will stay here.

Thanks for keeping this site up and running.

ANON-YYZ, no you don’t need tinyurl at all unless the address is really really long (almost never:-)

I love the preview (not that it means I catch all my typing errors, but it helps:-)

I find it very time consuming trying to read this forum because if a thread is long, I need to do a lot of scrolling to find new posts that I haven’t read. It’s annoying when the new post doesn’t say anything worth the time involved in scrolling. In some of the popular threads here, I have scrolled past the same posts literally dozens of time. What a waste of time.

One nice thing about the new forum is that in my personal profile I can change the order in which comments appear so that the most recent comments appear first. It’s not confusing either because any replies (indented responses) to a particular comment are still grouped with the comment, no matter when the reply was made.

To change the order of comments, go into your Profile:

- Select “Comment Prefs” - Change “Sort by Time” setting to “Newest First”

Both sites have their good points and their bads points. I will continue to use both. I’m not going to abandon the new site due to frustration because I’m inadquate with computer software, ect. I do strongly believe the old and the new can co-exist and stay strong. I really don’t mind going back and forth, it’s just that all the good stuff is over there!

Long live the wiki-old and new.

I will tend to spend more time here, but I do occasionally check the other board occasionally. I doubt I’ll ever spend much time there, unless significant changes take place.

I would like to echo the many comments about the new board having some impressive features---just not ones I’m interested in. I mentioned a few concerns on the new board and most responses indicated that the immediate assumption was that I didn’t understand how to use the various features. I do, indeed, understand how to use the board and I’ve changed my personal preferences numerous times to try to find the best “fit.”

I, too, simply want to be able to come to a site like this and scan the titles of various posts, read (and occasionally respond to) the posts which interest me, and leave. Occasionally, I want to research something a bit more and will explore the many other information sources found here besides the message board. As others have mentioned, there is no practical way to quickly scan the posts on the new board. I’ve tried all the suggestions, and none of them match the simplicity of looking over a concise list of titles only. I only have so much time to spend on the computer, and I’ll generally choose to spend it where that time can be used most efficiently.

Again, I mean no disrespect to those who have created the new site. It just doesn’t offer what I’m looking for.

I have to agree with everyone here. I know people are normally resistant to change, but I just don’t have the time to learn the ins-and-outs of the new forum. It is not very intuitive.

I never head to learn anything for this forum and much prefer it here.

I’m with the rest of you. I just don’t have the time or expertise to learn how to navigate all this new stuff while at the same time working full time, prepping and getting my family and community to prep, and trying to keep abreast of what is happening flu wise.

I am so pathetically inept at navigating this site, I have to confess I don’t even know how to get to the current events forum. I have tried typing it into search on the forum page and on the main page to no avail. All i want is to keep on top of what’s happening. On the new site, the very interesting and relevant threads on the mystery illness in Meghdalaya (by India/nepal) and the questionable outbreak in Egypt and the other in Indonesia have all seemingly been lost. In the chatty friendly format, we seem to lose the scientific dialogue and well thought out responses to issues which added so much insight. In the meantime, can someone tell me how to find CE?

“I have to confess I don’t even know how to get to the current events forum.”

Look in the left column on the main page. The second box down is entitled “Subjects”. One of the subjects listed is “News Reports”. Click on that.

Irene at 13:37 You advise “To change the order of comments, go into your Profile: - Select “Comment Prefs” - Change “Sort by Time” setting to “Newest First”

I go into my profile and I look and look and do not find “comment prefs” link or anything else other than the choice to edit or save my profile. I am soooooo pathetic when it comes to this stuff. But I have gone back and forth to the profile several times and I don’t know what I am missing here. Help!!

Mary - C’mon over and visit . . .

www.curevents.com

:)

Mary in Hawaii – at 14:10

Sure! Flu Clinic is here. But for those not using the new site (many valid reasons) consider registering so you can contribute at need. For example, Mary in Hawaii, the recombination discussion is moving here because of anonymous trolls (yes, this site has its issues).

Mary in Hawaii – at 14:18

That’s at the new site. You can’t do that here.

Clawdia – at 14:22

That is a new low. Mods from one forum picking on another forum then asking participants to move over.

anonymous – at 14:57

‘S okay. We’re not in competition, as I have been saying.

Sadly, I am also not impressed with the new site. I know that the owners/moderators did what they felt was necessary and I will keep trying to make it useful for me and my family.

That said … unfortunately I think what is forgotten in the discussion are the vast number of lurkers that will shake their heads in confusion (viewing the new forum) and drift off to other sources/sites. The very fact that an individual posts a message distinguishes them from 95% of the people that frequently read this site. A far far larger number of people stop by to read and learn in an efficient manner …. without taking the bold step (commitment) of posting to the site.

There can be no doubt that a certain number of hardy soles will create a new community and new dialog at the new FluWikie forum. I wish them the best of luck. But should a large number of people suddenly go looking for information on panflu, I will bet that relatively few will be patient enough to wade through the arcane elements at the new forum site … particularly as the pandemic clock clicks louder …and louder.

My sense is that to solve some relatively minor nuisances (spam & anonymous posters) a set of unintended and unforeseen consequences may result.

Truth be told, I have found I spend less time reading the FluWiki forum over the last few months. As we have become more and more prepared, the forum has become less and less relevent …. with one huge exception …. the articles and information that contibutors research. Research that go beyond “NewsNow” RSS feeds. The ferreting out of information from alternative sources in Indonesia, Nepal, Egypt etc. has been so helpful. But beyond that, the forum is far less “sticky” than it used to be. (I must also say that I really miss “Tom DVM”’s contributions …. but that’s a different issue)

Regardless, the FluWikie remains a vital and important resource in preparing for the coming pandemic. I greatly appreciate and honor all of the effort put forth by the creators and moderators of FluWiki. I really hope that things work out just as they envision for the new forum. I will always have a deep sense of gratitude for their vision in creating this site.

Mary in Hawaii at 14:18, to change your comment preferences…

On the Main forum page click on Mary in Hawaiis Page, then

there will be a row of choices displayed under Profile, click on Comment Prefs, then

click on the box (drop down arrow) next to Comment Display Mode. This will display the following options- Nested (default), Threaded, Flat (unthreaded), Flat (threaded) and Minimal.

To choose one, just click on it and be sure to save before you change screens. I recommend that you try out each of the options to see what you, personally, feel the most comfortable using. You can always go back and change your preferences if you want to.

Hope that helps, if you have any other questions, please just ask.

Mary in Hawaii, I missed a step in my explanation- sorry!

This is step 2- after you get to Mary in Hawaiis Page click on Profiles (far right of top row), then continue on as outlined above.

If the majority of the users had chorused “Good God, what have you done!” at the sight of the new site would that have changed anything? Would people have stopped and perhaps rethought their plan to use that particular set-up? Or would the opinions be similar to the poster who said:

“if you check Old Yeller, there will always be those who do nnot wish to learn anything new, or whose computers cannot handle the site.”

How dismissive and condescending to anyone not jumping for joy at being told they have to spend time-and for some people that is indeed a precious commodity-learning to maneuver through the hoops set up by those enamored of all the toys offered by the particular site.

Cutting up the page with bits of this, boxes of that, and links to everything may be nifty-keen but it’s a failure of one of the most basic rules: KISS. Just because a site has a particular capability doesn’t mean it MUST be included in the package and just because some of the people drool after the latest and greatest supposed “time-saver” doesn’t mean it suits the needs of the many or is even compatible with the aims of the board.

I’m a fast reader. I pop in here, scan the thread titles, which are neatly arranged in a row for easy reading, and click on whichever one strikes my fancy or strikes a chord in the time I have free to do some reading.

Yet reading just the front page over there caused me to have to slow down, isolate, click the mouse extra times, and generally take far more time than I intended to spend to get caught up just to find out my opinion really doesn’t matter because apparently I don’t want to learn anything new and/or my computer is outmoded.

In the spirit of KISS, I’ve decided all I need from either site is the swan signal. As long as I can access that picture to see if the swans are swimming or suddenly feet up, it doesn’t matter to me if I’m relegated to the outdated and outmoded pile.

I tried to join the new site last night, but it hasn’t worked yet. The message said my password had been sent to my email address but it never arrived. I tried to register again today but it said my user name (Lemming-free zone)or password was taken. Can you resend the password? Thanks!

Lemming-free zone:

I just changed the password for the account under your name and sent an email to the address on file for it.

Other than logging-in, I don’t find that I am having to click my mouse more frequently to navigate the new site as opposed to this one. I log-in and click on Diaries and am able to very quickly scan the diaries and read what interests me. And I’m 50 years old which probably puts me in the outdated/outmoded pile..LOL. I guess whomever quoted “different strokes…” was exactly right. I have to say though that I do take exception to the description of the mods here as being “dismissive and condescending”…IMO they are not deserving of that remark based on all that I have read and observed here over the last week or so.

Anon @ 14:57

I hardly think think I’m picking on the Wiki - I like the Wiki, or I wouldn’t spend so much of my time here! I think Dem understands, or at least I hope so - a poster here said she couldn’t access “the other forum”, so I provided the link. I would have done the same thing a year ago before I was a custy. Actually, since someone expressed a difficulty that I could eliminate, I would have thought it rude not to provide a link . . . and what should I say - DON’T come visit?

I’ve never perceived any sense of competition between the Flu Clinic and the Wiki - I hope it’s not just naivete on my part. I think the goals of both CE and the Wiki are quite similar, and I’m always glad to see similar topics discussed at both places because it enlarges and enhances those discussions, simply by involving a different sub-set of flubies.

I’ll bet it didn’t occur to you that instead of picking on the Wiki, I’m actually picking on myself . . . I feel pretty bad that I can’t just snap my fingers and understand the technology. I said it before when using the analogy of the old dog and new tricks - it faults the dog far more than the trick!

I am old and I am confused by the new site. That is a personal problem, I know. I am under a lot of pressure to prep for the impending pandemic. I have neither the emotional engery nor the technical skills to learn the skills necesary to navigate the new site. Please keep the old one running. If you cannot, thank you for all the valuable information I have gleaned from you in the past. I will just be an old dinosaur lumbering off to find something easier for me to understand.

RBA – at 15:03

Maybe you’ve graduated and don’t need us anymore. ;-) I think a lot of people have, and I think if we’ve helped, that’s okay. But for all those who have never taken the Flu Wiki prepping curriculum, the new site may attract those who never were attracted to the old site. And should something happen, it can handle the volume better.

Clawdia – at 15:52

As stated on other threads, I see it the way you see it! ;-)

Nervous2now – at 15:53

Please keep the old one running.

We plan to. You don’t have to go there, though I’d take it as a personal favor if you’d at least follow threads and links there if posted here, just to read. Then come back. ;−0

After we get the other place squared awqay and it is more or less running on its own, we will do an upgrade here. Spam control (yay!). And when you look at the Forum thread page, it should tell you how many posts, I think.

Probably not going to the new forum until after Christmas. I don’t have the time to prepare for and enjoy the Christmas season and keep up with panflu info while continuing to prep for panflu and learn to use the new forum. After the new year, I think. Another “Thanks!” for keeping this one up and running in the meantime.

Well, there have been times that I have not agreed on some of the actions of the mods, but can I just say that based on all that I have read and all that has been written over the last few days (especially within the last few posts), that Dem has proved to be One Class Act! :-)

Well, there have been times that I have not agreed on some of the actions of the mods

How can that be?? ;-)

A sincere thank you, bluesfan. We are trying hard. we may not satisfy everyone, but we are trying.

OKbirdwatcher – at 16:09

There is no rush whatsoever. We will drop links here if there is something there to see. Today, I recommend this excellent diary on flu shots.

My recommendation of the day is this diary on flu shots.

I have to say that the first day I ventured over to the new forum, I thought “Oh, No!” I was nearly in tears after trying to navigate the site. However, after a couple of days, I became more comfortable with the site and although I don’t have time to mess with all the special HTML codes right now, I’m certainly comfortable posting comments and replies. Still don’t understand the tag stuff. So, for those of us who are not technically savy, we can still participate in the new forum.

Yes, this forum has become as comfortable as an old pair of slippers, and I still do prefer it, but I do like the speed of the new forum. For me, I think it is going to be necessary to get used to the new forum if I want to stay informed because a lot of the fluwikie community is there.

Here Here!!

We’re going to make you a saint, and have a whole day set aside for you!

No one has to worry about tags here, but if yu care to worry about them there, we use them to sort and catalogue the threads for later searching. Actually, no one has to worry about them there, either. ;-)

But if you want to know more, it’s here. I’ve linked to a comment I’ve made (you can do that with individual comments which is a real time-saver).

One thing to keep in mind while the new site settles and gets down to business: a lot of folks are going over there and trying it out by simply posting comments, and then go back to the Front Page to see where their name shows up. Once that part is figured out, moving about the site is fairly easy, because now they’ve found one of the places (Left Side Bar) where the most recent comments appear.

It’s a bit like here with the Last 50 Comments page, but it’s just skinnier.

The issue of tags is that they are nothing more than keywords that most websites use. When you create a diary (similar to a thread here), you can add as many Tags, or keywords, as you like in the box directly above your opening post. That helps people find your diary by doing a search for a Tag. If a person were looking for “Hand-crank flashlights”, they would type that into the search box, with the quotes, and every diary that includes that phrase will appear on the next screen…same as here.

I will also be one jumping between all three sites…beside having work to do on both sides, I’m still working on the Forum Index here…

That reminds me…I’ve got work to do!

Like many others have said, I’ll attempt to use the new site, and hope that up to date info is continued here…

I’m pretty internet savvy, in fact, I own a website, but the new board over there is even overwhelming to me. I’ve been there a few times, I’ve read the tutorials…it’s not just a format change, it’s a language change. Diaries are threads, this is that, that is even something else so it’s a larger than normal learning curve.

I’m attempting to invest the time but like all of us, prefer to keep the frustration level down. Life in and of itself, is frustrating enough, and that board tends to frustrate me after a while.

I’ve send a couple of emails, never received an answer, so I’m not sure if they ever got there or got missed or what.

Oh well, it’s a done deal…take it or leave it, learn it or not I guess. *shrug*

Shad.

shadddup – at 16:37

sending email to me? I haven’t gotten them. I never ignore email.

demfromct@earthlink.net

There is no rush to master anything. Take your time. But whether it’s after new year’s, or now, whenever you’re there, just ask the community.

Some have said you read a post and then go to your page to see if anyone has commented. I don’t really consider that the most important thing. I like to log on to the forum page and see what is going on by the titles of the threads. That’s how I could tell if something was brewing in the community. I just don’t feel that connection there. I feel like I went to work and everyone moved their desks and they are speaking Pig Latin and I didn’t get the memo. ;-) Oh, whoa is me…. I know, I’m a whiner but I sure have heard some interesting, common themes from users. I know that Flu Wiki has said in the past, with some pride I believe, that there is signs from the visitor tracking page that TPTB, officials, etc are visiting this site. They may not post but they could easily pop in, get a barometer check of the wiki atmosphere. I have a feeling that those type of readers will dry up quickly.

I have a quick question…What’s the purpose in closing threads on the old forum and directing posts to the new forum (such as the recently closed Rumors thread)? Do we open another rumors thread here or are we required to post all new rumors on the new thread?

I would like to reiterate what several others have said here. It’s not that we are all overwhelmed or unable to figure out how to use the new site. It’s just that the way it is set up does not suit our individual preferences. Like Shad, I consider myself internet savvy. I’ve been using computers since the 1970′s, including the gigantic “mini-computers”. In those days you had to either get someone to write programs for the computers, as none existed, or write your own. I set up a network of computers in my home many, many years before the idea became mainstream. There’s a lot I don’t know about computers, the Internet, or various programs; but when I need to learn something, I’ve never had a problem doing so. I will repeat what I said before: I didn’t have any trouble navigating through the new board. I simply prefer a less cluttered appearance. I would be delighted with the new site IF everything remained the same, except that the message board could be accessed on a separate page with the titles only of each thread/diary listed---just see Texas Rose’s comment above, which I think eloquently described what many of us dislike about the new format.

On the plus side, I like that it seems to be much faster than this board. I think the colors are easier on the eye. I think the many options that are offered are a plus. The anti-spam features are certainly welcome. Unfortunately, it just doesn’t offer a clean, uncluttered interface for its most important feature (for me), the message board.

So please don’t assume that those not wholeheartedly embracing the new format don’t “understand” computers, or are “overwhelmed” by its cimplexity, or “unwiling” to learn. While some may have specific probelms understanding certain features, I think, in general, you are underestimating your readership.

Thanks pogge! I got the password and had no trouble logging in. The new site looks great. I tried an answering post with a copied reference from another site and had no problem (and I am only at the “type stuff” and “copy and paste” level of computer knowledge). I’ll start learning how to do the trickier stuff like italics and color next. I really like the way you can respond to a question next to the question for logical flow. Also, it occured to me that having a more complicated site might be a great way to weed out trolls and dilettantes who don’t really want to be there.

I like this old yeller better myself. I can see all the new posts and times on one page, with one click I can read any recent thread I want, with one click I can post to any active thread, and I can read it faster since it is not short choppy lines. The new one has too many narrow columns, and too many bells and whistles to make it easy to use as a “side window” while I am working. It just takes too many clicks to navigate and the recent postings are on a side bar with not date or time. If I just did FW and nothing else it would be fine but I just don’t work that way. FW is “secondary” to what I am normally doing. (the “iron rule” comes to mind- the site seems to be moving to site talkers that want speed and options and live here more for flu information- I guess that is the way of any organization and I am just an old “stick in the mud”- but I everyone all well)

Since the real question on this thread seems to be will anyone not go-I will likely stay around until driven away. I guess a few of us need to stay around- just in case - to redirect others if nothing else. I will likely just “visit”/lurk the new one a while. WIth Tom, monotreme, Niman, … etc not around it is a little dull anyway.

I hope they never close this forum. I have MS and my sight is very poor. As thew virus evolves I think there will be many more people like me who don’t have the computer savy of many here and this forum is so easy to use.

I want to thank all of you for your dedication and hard work. Though I maily lurk I still spend many hours a day here learning.

rockyman – at 17:13

open up a new one as you like. We always closed threads when they got long.

Genoa – at 17:24

So please don’t assume that those not wholeheartedly embracing the new format don’t “understand” computers, or are “overwhelmed” by its cimplexity, or “unwiling” to learn. While some may have specific probelms understanding certain features, I think, in general, you are underestimating your readership.

Talk about rumors! i don’t know how that one got started. But it is certainly the case that our readership is well respected and is the reason the forum exists.

Econ101 – at 17:44

it’s clear we should support both. Thanks for reading!

I must be getting old; the new format of having responses down the middle of the page in narrow columns goes against all I learned in page layout design (hardcopy mind you) except for short blurbs. So I’m assuming we now should have comments no more than 2 or 3 sentences. Perhaps not as it seems more like a newspaper column. I have textbooks on newspaper layout and design and I’m going to check this out i.e. readability on screen.

Wow there’s lots of stuff on the front page; you spoiled us by making the forum so clean and simple before. I didn’t want to spend time learning but that’s probably because I’ve gotten lazy. I was a computer geek/graphic designer years ago and the other day I couldn’t even remember the name of the old operating system I used for years (MSDOS)pathetic I know. I wish someone would take me by the hand and walk me through it to convince me it’s easy to understand and will be easy to read.

I’ll keep trying but this will be my main site for information for the timebeing.

Genoa – at 17:24 not wholeheartedly embracing

I feel the same way. I think I am “fair” around computers. I date back to having to use hard wires and toggle switches to boot them, taking part in the early ARPA/User nets and now with fiber optic links direct to the “backbone” and can still program C++ and labview when needed.

The only real questions are what is the use of the forum and what is its target audience. Is it for chat among fluwikians or is it to give information to the masses on flu issues and being prepared? Having taught computer courses for a dozen years or so, I can tell you that the more “levels”, the more required clicks and the more options needed for people; the fewer people will “click through” and access any given piece of information.

If I had to predict (still haven’t fixed my crystal ball) I would say that the new forum format in its present form will tend to have more chat, rumors, and such and less news, preparation help and other items that I (personally) think are the important things. When the “clients” are most interested in speed and appearance it usually signals they want to interact and chat more. People that are after raw information will just pop up the information and wait for it to load in another window if they are after information. But I again I will everyone well and hope I am wrong.

I have been to the new forum and agree with many here on “Old Yeller” (oddly enough, I find that term offensive, as if the old forum is no longer good enough.)The new forum is confusing and cumbersome. but, it is the third encarnation since I have been onboard. Things must change and evolve, this is a good thing for some, and a bad thing for others. I feel comfortable here and will remain and continue to post, but I will lurk on the “New board” while I try to figure it out, and

DemfromCT-

I’m paraphrasing here so bear with me, but in an earlier post you ended with “there’s no rush to master anything, take your time”

You must be one of the glass is half full types. I don’t feel like we have a whole lot of time left to enjoy the way things are now, I am rushing to master many things, and in my triage of things to master, learning new formats is behind learning how to butcher a hog.

To be honest, I’m still having some adjustment reactions myself. It’s like moving to a new house with all your furniture and belongings except you’ve never seen that house before, and someone else has already done all the unpacking so you have to go hunt for your stuff. And of course since stuff is now everywhere and you can’t really change the architecture much, it will take a while to figure out how to live in it. That said, at the risk of taking this metaphor too far, you can change some of the soft furnishings to fit.

The first day, with the glaring white, I was barely able to see straight, let alone know what I was doing. Now that I’ve had time to look around a bit, I’m still trying to figure out a way to make it as community-centered as this old forum, primarily because here I use the Last 50 Changes which gives me a good ‘pulse’ of where everybody’s at. I found that the only equivalent is to look at the posts on the right column with the most no of red ‘new’ posts, which tells me which ones are the most commented on since I last visited. Doesn’t give me that warm fuzzy feeling of everyone in the same room, but hey…

The issue of what software to use was debated umpteenth times, and in my not very tech-savvy opinion, there just wasn’t one that was perfect for everything. Now pogge and Dem have been spending the most time getting this started, we wouldn’t be here without them spending God knows how many hours making it functional (and herding us cats ;-) as well), and there’s no way this Old Yeller can take any more mileage. I guess personally the only thing I can say is let’s make the most of it.

It’s not going to be perfect for everyone, but, bottomline, we are here to help each other out about a possible pandemic. Given all the crashes that we’ve had, and all the panic that people go through every time that happens, I’m willing to trade some of my comforts for stability and availability. But then that’s just me…;-)

Prepping Gal – at 17:54

I must be getting old; the new format of having responses down the middle of the page in narrow columns goes against all I learned in page layout design (hardcopy mind you) except for short blurbs. So I’m assuming we now should have comments no more than 2 or 3 sentences. Perhaps not as it seems more like a newspaper column. I have textbooks on newspaper layout and design and I’m going to check this out i.e. readability on screen.

I had exactly the same problem until I changed the setting to ‘flat, unthreaded’ and ‘oldest first’, so when I open up a thread (or diary), it looks like this page with all the comments in chronological order and nothing squished at all.

Real simple. When this forum closes so do I. I have tried the new site. Do not like the lay out and design at all. Not to take anything away from the MODS. I know the amount of time it takes to set up something like the new site and the tremendous amount of work. It just does not feel right. Even if it did, I have not and will not register on any biog. Way to dangerous for me personal. Only two people on this site know who I really am and I don;t think one of them really picked up on the one email I sent her. Once this site goes down if I ever do come across something that is really important, and not posted (not likely with the way this group moves) I will email one of the two who know who I am.

Really like the group here and will stay as long as others do.

Anon_451 – at 18:18

We’ll always welcome your participatition, in whatever form that feels comfortable to you. ;-)

When the “clients” are most interested in speed and appearance it usually signals they want to interact and chat more. People that are after raw information will just pop up the information and wait for it to load in another window if they are after information. But I again I will everyone well and hope I am wrong.

AMEN 3 clicks or you’re dead is what we used to call it.

Anon_451 – at 18:18

The issue of registration is a big one for some here, but there’s no way around it for the other site. We spent the weekend cleaning out sock-puppets posing as other posters here trying to disrupt the conversation. Not fun. In the new iteration, the upgrade coming to this site (that doesn’t sound like closing to me), you will not have to share email and identity if you choose not to, but we will need to do something to help with spam. You might have to type in a number or letters that appear (easy, visible ones!!) to validate that it’s a human, for example, and not a ‘bot. We’re looking at a simple method.

it usually signals they want to interact and chat more.

For some, that is a huge plus. They get info and that, too. For others, not so much. That’s why the two ways of doing things may be complementary in the end.

I find the new site way too cumbersome and the flow just doesn’t work. I don’t have the time to “learn” how to get around it; If I have to learn how to get around a “new” web site, I can’t be bothered.. At this point, if the pandemic is as close as we all are left wondering about, then there is, truly, no place like home.

if it’s that close, don’t we have an obligation to try and get new people involved, even if it means trying new things?

And if it’s not… well, don’t we have time to try new things? ;-)

Bluesfan – at 15:40: “I have to say though that I do take exception to the description of the mods here as being “dismissive and condescending”…IMO they are not deserving of that remark based on all that I have read and observed here over the last week or so.”

Since you’re objecting to my words, I’ll clarify. I was responding to this comment at the other site:

“if you check Old Yeller, there will always be those who do nnot wish to learn anything new, or whose computers cannot handle the site.

We will keep the old site going for them, but it is both regrettable and unavoidable. We can not keep the old site up without this one to complement it. by: DemFromCT @ Thu Nov 23, 2006 at 12:20:58 PM EST [ Parent ]”

http://www.newfluwiki2.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=201

My opinion that the remark was condescending and dismissive stands. YMMV.

In the long run, though, I suspect the discussion of which board is preferred has already been deemed irrelevant:

“I can certainly see that we need an appropriate transition period but in the meantime it’s a real mess to have content fragmented and split across the two sites. I do think you need to set a reasonable deadline and stick to it. My impression is that there are some that won’t come here until they have to. Hope that doesn’t sound too harsh! by: Nimbus @ Thu Nov 23, 2006 at 13:28:34 PM EST [ Parent ]

we’re talking weeks not months (maybe 3 weeks) and my idea is simply this: because you can link to specific comments and diaries, post here and link the post there. ;−0 by: DemFromCT @ Thu Nov 23, 2006 at 13:43:05 PM EST [ Parent ]

Thats a good plan I’ve been just posting here this last week - I’ll be sure from here on out that the links get posted to the old wiki as well. by: Nimbus @ Thu Nov 23, 2006 at 13:53:18 PM EST [ Parent ]

asdf Hopefully, we can close a lot of the threads over there so that people will see that Old Yelleris slowly being retired. As we move threads over to this site, we should certainly close them for further comment over there at the same time.

“Change is the essential process of all existence.” — Mr. Spock by: Bronco Bill @ Thu Nov 23, 2006 at 14:35:03 PM EST [ Parent ]”

http://www.newfluwiki2.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=201

So how long is this board going to stay up?

Look. I appreciate the work the moderators do. Riding herd on a board is a thankless job, especially when one doesn’t get paid to do so. I also realize moderators are human and sometimes have a difficult time separating running a board from emotion when egos get in the way. I’m not trying to score points or bust anyone’s chops but boards rise and fall on their users and this board is no different. Yet right now it appears that anyone who doesn’t like the new board is irrelevant and, if the above posts are any indication, SOL in a few weeks.

And for what? A spiffier board? The brand new and improved bells and whistles that will Make Life Easier If Only Given a Chance? Who is this board really for? Not me, that much I can tell.

KISS. That seems like an easy enough request but I guess it’s not.

With that, I’ve made my opinion known. Anything more would be repetitive so I’m going to follow Bird Guano’s lead and walk away from the discussion.

DemFromCT -

Well, ummmm….I moseyed over to the new site, just to register (thanks for the link you provided - I couldn’t even figure that out a couple of days ago) and once I’d registered, I found myself navigating around the site and even changed some settings, set up my “Hot List”, and posted a comment:-O Is it 2007 already;)?

OK. Since so many others are giving their opinion, I will give mine.

1. This old forum seems orderly to me. The presentation is straight forward. I believe a person can understand more readily how to navigate this forum compared to the new forum.

2. On this old forum, everything is in view as you run down a thread. I prefer to read each comment that I encounter, if I wish, rather than having to click on something to bring it up. I don’t enjoy a lot of hidden stuff.

3. I also don’t really see the need for all that indenting. On this old forum, I can figure out who is responding to whom. I don’t need the indenting to figure that out.

4. I don’t seem to observe a bunch of odd little extras on this forum. On the new forum, there are “itchy gritchy” little “+”s and tags etc all over. You have to read a bunch of stuff to understand what all that stuff is.

5. This forum has a soft yellow color which is easy on the eyes, and is decorative. The new forum’s shades of grey are harsher to the eye and do not seem decorative.

All in all, from my eyes, this old forum is orderly, in plain view, has no “itchy gritchy” stuff to deal with, has a friendly color for the eye, and therefore is welcoming and easy to use. Now you must understand that I am not real Internet or computer savy. I learned to use the computer 8 years ago. But, I do have the ability to learn new things. I have registered at the new forum, but I do not feel that I enjoy the new format. I don’t like how it is displayed as much. I am sure I could, and would, learn how to use all the “itchy gritchy” stuff in time. However, I simply enjoy how this old forum presents itself, compared to the new one.

Also, why do you have to move the “Rumors” thread completely over to the new forum? Does that mean we have to then make a new “Rumors” thread for this old forum?

This is just my opinion.

I have no problem with registration. My problem is that the narrow little three columns and you have to click too much. It is fine if FW is all you are doing but just too many clicks to get around if you are doing things in other windows. My guess is people who pop up an extra window or two for FW at work and such will be “turned off” with the multiple options and multiple “doors” to so many displays. I guess I am getting old, but I can remember perhaps 5 or 6 windows but it is hard to multitask with sites that require so many clicks when you have many different windows/tabs open. I just don’t see the need for the three columns instead of just two. Most people just put all the options in one column and the main content in a large column. The posting page is a nice two column format but the forum is that narrow choppy three column thing.

and just too many clicks to do anything. For example it takes me 4 clicks just to change my display prefs.

Texas Rose @18:47 - Neither of your selected Dem-quotes seems in any way dismissive or condesending to me, so I guess it’s all in one’s individual perception of things. The description just doesn’t seem to fit regardless imo, because I’ve only noticed goodwill. Anyways, I honestly wish that you would come over to the new site and join in some threads post some comments and help to make whatever positive changes that you feel would be benefical to all. I know that your suggestions would be welcomed as I haven’t seen any egos getting in the way over there. Just my observations.

To be honest, I just don’t like having to extra click to get over there and, for me, simpler is better. I guess I’m just set in my ways.

I think this is my excuse to break away. I’m prepped to the gills, grateful for all the advice I have gleaned and hard work on the part of so many, but my family misses me.

I must say that I wish the new forum would use “Topic” instead of “Diary”. I’m sorry, but a diary is (and always will be to me) what I wrote all my personal thoughts and secrets in as a young girl, then locked up and hid way back under the mattress of my bed. “Diary” just seems a silly choice, IMO.

Texas Rose..also want to say that I respect your passion about the site and all that it stands for and is trying to accomplish..I honestly do. And I think it’s so great that you and everyone else here cares so much about this cause and it’s mission.

Sthrn Tr – at 20:11

my family misses me

And mine misses me.

Texas Rose – at 18:47

If you remove things out of context, you can twist and slant it any way you want. But that’s neither what people want nor what people need. The day we opened, the other site had a network slowdown and the irony was that this place was faster for a few hours. having both places was good. It’s also different. It’s neither better nor worse, it’s different. Some people don’t like ‘different’. But there are many people we are not reaching who need ‘different’.

My thinking at this point is that this place will get an upgrade (I’ve said that here but not there, so you can’t go and lift it easily, but take the trouble and you can find it) and we will take a few necessary steps to make it spam-resistant (nothing is spam-proof).

If you want to stay here, stay. We’ll stay open for months and then we’ll see who is here and what people need. I expect lots of cross-traffic with the new place and other sites. It’s as simple as that.

OKbirdwatcher – at 20:22

This software and software like it is used all over the internets, and the term netwide is Diary. That’s why we are using it. I am sorry it seems frivolous.

anonymous – at 14:57 Clawdia – at 14:22

That is a new low. Mods from one forum picking on another forum then asking participants to move over.

Hey anon - did you read the 14:22 (note that it posted the same time as Clawdia’s) post from Dem? I read Mary’s comment and was ready to post a link for her too. It’s called helping each other - and when we want to know something, we ask/comment and get help. I love the “no competition” bit with most of the forums/sites. The goal is to have the most people be informed by any site they are comfortable with. I’m reading and posting at both old and new. And I only recently figured out how to do that here. I like this one better because it’s familiar and is now comfortable. It didn’t used to be, I preferred another site. I grew into this one. I hope I grow into the new one. Dem: I really liked the “best of the Day” from the new forum recommendation. You ought to make that a regular here. I don’t like that to have the same info on each site you’d have to post it twice. But, I read other sites and now just have a new one. I was able to add a link on the other site without the tinyURL - that took a lot of effort to figure out here, but I did it a while ago. On the new site I would like to know how to have it view with all three columns so I don’t have to scroll left/right. And I haven’t figured out the display prefs. I’ve played and change numbers but can’t figure out what it does and now don’t know what the default should be. But I’m not dead yet, so can still learn. I’m one of those you’ll see both places (and some others too.)

I think it might be the right time to thank the mods for this forum AND the other one. We can use either; we can use both; we can visit both and others besides. No telling how much time they’ve put into making our discussions possible. If a pandemic comes, and I survive it, I’ll have a lot people at Flu Wiki to thank.

Boy, you Mods are really taking it on the chin. I do wish the “flu crew” would lighten up just a bit. I understand that some think we don’t have the time to learn the new forum, but I believe we do. Some feel they don’t have the time for personal reasons, but that’s not the Mods fault. Hell, allow yourself to be frustrated, than move on. I’m not too fond of it myself, but, I will accept it, and not waste my time complaining. I could, but I won’t. Inputs are great, and the Mods need them to better serve us the best that they can. They can not, however, change every single detail we don’t like. I accept this. I will use the new forum to best suit my needs, and as long as my basic needs are met there, I’ll continue to use it. If I had my rathers, I’d have the new forum, just like this. ;-) I’m over my frustration, and I want to move on. ;-)

I don’t know, I sort of like the new forum, but I do understand the frustration that comes with learning something new. Sometimes when I’m confronted with a new rule at work, or a new microwave oven, or just about anything that I don’t clearly understand, I complain about it for a while. Maybe that’s what this thread is about, just letting loose a little unhappiness with a big change. Mods, you guys are the greatest. I think it’s really nice that you try to be so patient while everyone gets this out of their system.

I will still go to the new forum, just probably not as much as I come to this one, so I guess I’m intruding on this thread. Sorry about that.

I want to repeat that the Mods have been a Class Act in the manner with which they have dealt with everyone’s ‘feedback’ and I second InKy and cottontop’s sentiments with regards to the Mods. Dem you deserve a medal for this marathon. Thank you.

Here’s how I do it. I really want to learn something new, but my frustraion is overwhelming and I just get p.oed at it, and walk away. But I find myself picking at it, and the next thing I know, I’m getting it. And that’s what I’ve had to do with the new forum. I really want to learn it, and now I’m over my fit, and I’m picking at it. And that’s how I learn. I’m trying to come up with new ideas for myself to make it enjoyable for me, and a learning process. Hey, they didn’t give cottontop her own page for nothing! I want to use it. Everyone who registers gets to set up their ouwn page, create diaries (threads). Be creative.

DemFromCT – at 16:56

Yes, I sent them to that email addy. Maybe they went into your bulk mail or something…no biggie.

Shad.

DemFromCT at 20:29 -

I understand that “Diary” is a netwide thing and not a choice the mods made personally. Didn’t mean to imply that. It’s just that panflu is such a serious subject, it doesn’t fit, for me. But then I’m sure I’ll grow fond of it too, in time. ;) I’m already starting to like the new forum.

The mods really are fantastic and after reading through the feed back, I wouldn’t be surprised if one of them snapped and told us whiny butts to ______ off. i appreciate all that you have done and your calm manner of dealing with the technologically challenged.

In case anyone cares, I am finally starting to get a handle on the new wiki! Anyone watch the movie “The Matrix”? The people in the movie could read those screens full of streaming letters. That’s how I felt looking at the new wiki but it’s starting to make sense. Not a pro but feeling a little better.

but it’s starting to make sense. Not a pro but feeling a little better.

On the fence and leaning – at 22:27

Give yourself another hour. ;-)

You’ll be learnin’ wiki kung fu.

Thanks, all for the feedback. We can spend time with each of you at the new place helping you to configure it to make it work maximally for you, even if you mostly stay here. There’s aw hole community ready to help.

Luckily, flu news is (relatively) slow at the moment, but we’re all in it for the long haul.

shadddup – at 22:18

Not good. I try to be available. You can also try the contacts (pogge at pogge.ca). If you reach him, he’ll forward it or fix it.

On the fence and leaning-

Yes, this is what I tried to convey in my post @ 21:15. And concerning the movie the Matrix, well, guess there’s only one reason I watched that, and it wasn’t to watch those people read those screens full of streaming letters. :-)

thanks, cottontop, bluesfan and all.. a long day. More tomorrow…

I like this forum much better…I have tried the new site several times and I have such a hard time finding the stuff I like to read. With this site, there is so much I enjoy following, that there didn’t seem to be enough time for me to get through it all. I will stay here as long I can access the incredibly valuable information you are all willing to share here. I feel as though I am learning so much from you all, and I get very frustrated when I’m unable to find the conversation on the new site.

crsrs31

I hear ya. I just had to develope a new attitude on how I looked at the site. Geeze I had to. My basic needs from the new forum is really the news. I open up the diaries on my box thing, (that has your name you use), and I’m pretty much all set. I wonder around the forum, and post when something catches my eye, but basically, I use the diaries (threads). The only thing I can not get past, is how sterile the forum seems. It feels as if we are all scattered out. Here, it feels more community, like we’re all in one big room. I hope they never close this down. ;-)

The first time I went on the new site, I just stared at it. The second time, I clicked on a few things, the next time I clicked on others. Change takes some getting used to. I plan to learn the new site slowly. I will stay here, it’s familiar and easy, while I learn the new one. It’s good to learn new things, it keeps us young.

For some reason it is though people think that new is always better. Some here take a preference of “old yeller” as a fear of trying something new or not wanting to learn. That is a big assumption that is not always true. Sometimes new is just new. Different formats could be better for some than others. If you check I have been on the new site since it was first offered to us and have posted and used it. It is just not as useful to me as this one because of its format and the number of clicks required to do things.

cottontop – at 23:17 It feels as if we are all scattered out

Yes, we had some scattering when SusanC and Monotreme had their “falling out” and when Niman and SusanC had their “falling out”. We had some more “scattering” with all the look out posts. Now I have to click to a dozen threads to see the world news over the last few days. We are just getting scattered. I hope that as a pandemic becomes closer we will “fill out” again.

And yes, I too feel the threads are more “sterile” and it seems like there is less “cross pollenation” between threads. It is like the “hive mind” is scattered over several different fields. There will be less “stinging” but then sometimes that is needed.

DennisC – at 23:41

To be fair, the site is 48 hours open (a week stocking the shelves) and we have made no attempt to publicize it or offer it as a site for new blood - yet. Of course, if we did, we’d be yelled at for changing it too much. ;−0

This place, otoh, took months to build. I would suggest a proper evaluation of some things (how you feel about it) is immediate and some things (how it works in the longer term) is going to take some time.

Some here take a preference of “old yeller” as a fear of trying something new or not wanting to learn.

There are those who have said they don’t have time to learn, and that’s not quite the same thing. There are those who don’t want to (they’ve said that), and those who have tried it and just like it here better. That’s cool. But let’s not make this into an urban myth, please.

I like both sites. This one is slow and hard to scroll through, but OK.

Is there any chance that the new site might get ‘warmed up’ a bit? The blue/grey/white that I have on my computer screen when I go to it is kind of cold. Possibly could you add just a tint of egg yolk yellow to the scheme so that everything will ‘warm up’ to more of a blue green?

thanks,

I have all my favorite diaries “tagged”, and put in my hot list. I want to create my sandbox, next. What exactly can we use our sandbox for? Can we put personal comments on there too? Games, really stupid stuff? Carry on a conversation with oneself? Eat Krispy creams? ;-)

cottontop, your sandbox is your own to do with as you will!

..’Carry on a conversation with oneself? Eat Krispy creams? ;-)’…

LOL! I’ll tell you a little secret, I talk to myself frequently and eat chocolate at the computer:-)

Just hate it, am completely lost, can’t find the lovely and cozy impression of meeting my friends, the hive mind is either hidden or gone, can’t find the information I want, too many clicks, and my eyes feel like I’ve squirted lemon juice in them. I’d been hoping to recommend it, but I probably won’t, and it’s a pity, because some of those people I’d hoped to convince are important to all of us. I prefer to see you all here and on other flu boards.

Grrrrr gngngrrrrgscregneugneu‘´?=&ç*”?`#@/*¬ç§ü!¢£ç*---___aaAARRGHHH

Ma cherie, FrenchieGirl !

I still don’t know how to use such colourful language here at “Mellow Yellow”.

Give it some time, and I hope those other people will find something, either here, the Main Flu Wiki, or the new Forum, that will help shift their actions to help the world.

Perhaps if you ask them what they think will happen and ask why, and were sitting down online with them and could pull up some things they haven’t seen?

I am about convinced I may have to do that with some people (citizens or essential workers); sit down together at a keyboard, ask ‘em what they know about pandemic and why they think current course is ok. They’ve been going by “memos from the boss” and do not seem to know how to use “the internets” to find things for themselves.

Those higher-ups maybe already have all sorts of “guidelines” to pull out during pandemic, and rather alarming, and unpublicized, “planning assumptions” that we’d better get discussing ahead of time, while people can make better preparations on individual and municipal levels.

I’ve made a few forays on the new site and will keep chipping away at it until I can navigate easily and get to the information quickly. In the meantime I”ll be here getting the news and rumors, afterwards I’ll be here to “keep in touch” with the usual cast of characters whose commentary I value so much.

awaits the inevitable anti establishment backlash leading to those who considered by themselves to be “different”… migrating to the new site

meanwhile… a little live chat would be nice

cottontop – at 00:46 --- What exactly can we use our sandbox for? Can we put personal comments on there too? Games, really stupid stuff?

cottontop --- Create your own sandbox, and you can talk to yourself all day long! ;−0 And one of the best things about having a personal sandbox is that you can play in it without worrying about messing up someone else’s ‘template’. But, alas, you can’t load games onto the site…that’s not what it was created for. As for those Krispy Kremes? Hmmm…did you bring enough for the whole class? :-)

Bronco Bill – at 08:14 wrote:

cottontop – at 00:46 --- What exactly can we use our sandbox for? Can we put personal comments on there too? Games, really stupid stuff?

Create your own sandbox, and you can talk to yourself all day long!

Time for a reality check or a medication adjustment.

FrenchieGirl – at 05:58 --- LOL!! THAT’s some colorful language!!

Honestly, give the new forum a chance…right now, the site has only been open for a few days, and most are simply trying to find there way around. It’s sort of like going to a brand-new store in town, one you’ve never been in before. It takes some time to figure out where everything you want is located…and once you find things, it’ll be easier to find them the next time.

Down the left “aisle” (side-bar) of the new site’s Front Page is a column called Recent Comments. It’s very similar to the Last 50 Changes page here. Down the Center “aisle” (center) is the day’s news reports, Indonesia reports, and other diaries that we “bump” for everyone to see. If there’s not a lot of interest in those topic on the Front Page, eventually the Mods “bump” other topics and the older ones move down the list, much like here, but slower. Over in our right “aisle”, we have your own Menu once you’ve logged in, the site contact names, the Recommended Diaries (I don’t even use that right now!), and the Recent Diaries, which is a list of the most recently published NEW topics.

So, on the left side is the Most Recent Comments, and on the right side is the Most Recent Threads (diaries).

Also, the FluWiki logo in the upper left corner, “HOME” in your Menu box, and “HOME” in the bottom right corner will always take you back to the Front Page when you click on them…so you’re never really lost.

I hope that helps some with navigating the site…if you have any problems over there, feel free to just ask any of us. Anybody…we’re all there to do just as we’ve been doing here…

Oh, and none of us has left this site, either! :-)

Klatu – at 08:30 --- ;-D

moeb – at 08:06 wrote;

meanwhile… a little live chat would be nice

P4P

I’ve found mtself coming to Fluwiki less and less in recent weeks. There seems to either be too much technical stuff (gives my already tired brain a headache) or stuff that does not seem to be very on topic. Thus I have been finding fewer helpful posts. I hope the old forum will be left up so those who wish to can go back and at least view the helpful information. As for the new forum: Too complicated and too much work. I get to spend too little time on the computer to waste it on anything complicated. And the clincher, it requires we give out our email address which reveals our real identity to anyone wanting it, something that had been a topic of discussion several months ago and something I just do not want to do. I realize it may be a way to discourage spam posters but it just discouraged me as well. :-(

Poppy at 9:11: I primarily lurk, and I’m with you on the email address disclosure, not comfortable with that. This will be one of the reasons I will probably not use the new forum.

Dem,

Well done. I like the new site so much that this will be my last post here on the old site. Did it take me a few visits to become comfortable? Yes, but the speed and the new features more than make up for the learning curve.

One thing that I would like to see, however, is a really obvious link to the Pandemic Preparedness documents and other resources. Presently, these things are merely listed under “Contacts” as “Flu Wiki”.

I hope the rest of you good people will come on over to the new site. Dem needs your support and we all need your contributions.

I hope the old forum will be left up so those who wish to can go back and at least view the helpful information

yes, and in fact it would help us greatly here AND there if you would tell us what that helpful information is? is it…

News? Preps? What else?

which reveals our real identity to anyone wanting it

No it does not. Only the site admins know your email. It is not public information and does not appear on the site unless you choose to post it, same as here. Given the sock puppetry that we had to clean out over the weekend (someone posing as someone else) at this site in the recombination/vaccine summit (check for yourself), there’s no real choice. In fact, since spam is such a problem here, we are looking at an upgrade to fix the issue.

Dr Dave – at 09:33

yes, good point. it’s one of the wiki’s most read pages. We’ve started to craft those. Here is an example:

I haven’t done Pandemic Preparedness documents yet, but we should.

Klatu @08:30

Medication adjustment.

MaMa- a woman after my own heart!! ;-)

BB- I’ve got a few boxes left. Supplies are dwindling.

I have registered on and looked over the new forum site, but haven’t tried to post there. I will agree with what some others have said here, I don’t like the colors, don’t like having three different columns on the page (seems it would be easier to have a main page with just one central theme, ie diaries, and links to the other sections, than to try to cram everything on one page), and am still wondering how in the world I’ll ever be able to see just a simple list of all the diary-thread headings so I can easily pick and choose what topics interest me. It seems that I’ll have to spend MANY hours to figure out the new forum, something I’m not sure I’m willng or able to do. Oh, and what does the new forum consider as a “new” post? Is it something that’s new since the last time I looked at it, new in the last 24 hours, 48 hours or what? I’ll continue to try to figure out the new site as time allows, but I’m ever so thankful that the mods will leave ol yeller in place.

For those not comfortable in registering with an email address, go to yahoo and create a FREE email account that you’ll use just for fluwiki.

Kim- that’s what I did. no problem.

How in the world I’ll ever be able to see just a simple list of all the diary-thread headings so I can easily pick and choose what topics interest me.

Kim,you may prefer

News Reports view
Diaries view

instead of the main entrance, then. Within a diary, you can also set your comments to look like here instead of intending. That requires registration, though. or, manin page, glance at recent diaries to the right.

Is it something that’s new since the last time I looked at it

Yes, so whether it’s 10 minutes or 10 days, it’s personally new to you until you look. If you look on the main page, the new comments in recent diaries are flagged in red, the diaries in the center of interest to everyone are flagged in black, but they both say [new]. Those are nice features. That requires registration, too.

Take short forays over the next few weeks and let it grow on you slowly. No need to jump in all at once if you do not have time.

I’ll continue to try to figure out the new site as time allows, but I’m ever so thankful that the mods will leave ol yeller in place.

That’s the idea.

Kim – at 09:52

For those not comfortable in registering with an email address, go to yahoo and create a FREE email account that you’ll use just for fluwiki.

cottontop – at 09:58

Kim- that’s what I did. no problem.

That’s not a problem for us, either, but you do need to have an email that will deliver your password.

Thanks, Dem, I like the Diaries view better. Is there a way to set that view up as my opening page so that’s what I’ll get every time I log on?

When new people come to the forum, in many cases they ask a question that’s already been posed, chewed over, and usually a solution (or many solutions) posted on the forum but not on the main wiki.

I think what the mods were expecting was that we’d talk about a subject for a while in the forum, then several of us would put together a main wiki page that summarized all the important information so that people in a hurry wouldn’t have to read all the threads. IMHO, that’s still the most useful thing we could do for others. The new format, with clearer distinction of replies to comments, should be easier to cull for the best information to be summarized and posted to the main wiki.

IMHO, that’s still the most useful thing we could do for others. As well as gently pointing newbies to the information they’re looking for. That in itself will help to get them started in researching Pandemic Preparedness and coming back and adding their own information…

Is there a way to set that view up as my opening page so that’s what I’ll get every time I log on?

Alas, no. But as soon as you log on, click Diaries in the top upper right and you’ll be at Diaries view. We are actively working on input for the next upgrade, but i don’t think that’ll be an option. We’ll let them know, though.

Also, there are ways to set the comments the way you like.

IMHO, that’s still the most useful thing we could do for others. The new format, with clearer distinction of replies to comments, should be easier to cull for the best information to be summarized and posted to the main wiki.

Absolutely. What’s developed over time is people who go to the wiki and not the forum, people who go to the forum and not the wiki. This new site is yet another way to intgrate all three (not all two) sites - and thee.

Thank you, Mari, for that insight. Mari has been working on recipes, for example, and finding recipes by comment is really helpful. Her work, summarized by Irene, can be seen here. The links are to the wiki. We owe them a debt of gratitude and thanks. Many others are working to do the same.

The format is not very friendly here, compared to avianflutalk, for instance, and the new site is clearly worse, as the comments here show. Also the mods here have a bad history of censoring and banning those who criticize them. This is a real problem because the flip side is the mods must ingratiate themselves to a significant percentage of visitors in able to keep up appearances and that turns out to be the most paranoid folks because they are the ones always here on the watch for breaking news, and the paranoid tend to be stock-up-and-dig-in-alone-survivalists, which is really a very bad strategy for most of us.

Personally, I appreciate people who share knowledge, whatever their motivations, so I thank those survivalists for that, and I imagine that most agree. But the isolation/survivalist strategy is a very bad idea and the reason for this is simple. If, in fact, we need to prepare several months of supplies because supplies will be hard to come by after pandemic onset, as most experts warn, then we must expect that most people will soon be desperate for food. The desperate will likely band together in small groups and go door-to-door to find what they need. Wouldn’t you? So, being behind a locked door with a lot of guns is only going to earn you and your kids animosity, and guns will not protect you from smoke…or fire. In other words, if you truly need several months worth of food, then you also truly need to cooperate with a community to secure shared protection for yourself and your family.

Many of you hang out here a lot, its become your virtual community, and you’ll learn the secret handshakes of the new site and so gain a very sad advantage over those who will come later looking for help on the net. The new site will entrench the fluwiki status quo and that is a problem for community prep, especially for families.

Well, thanks for demonstrating the benefits of registration. This is what is known on the internets as a troll - someone being a jerk specifically to stir trouble.

Is it possible to set up a page like this for comments: http://agonist.org/comments

It might make it easier for the leery to convert to the new board. They would be able to find discussions quickly while still learning to navigate the new site. btw great job everyone :)

Helpful Hint-

If your like me, and you are going between the two forums, and your posting on both, you’d like to check back on a comment or a reply, but can not remember which forum you posted it on, (geeze I know, please keep laughter to a low roar), I finally figured out that I can check my comment/reply links in my box thing. I see every comment/reply that I’ve made. That is soooo cool for me. I’m not lost anymore!

Agonist used Drupal, a different set-up, and one that I’m told is much more admin-intensive. it did not suit our needs because of that. Our equivalent is on the main page (aka the front page, or FP). It’s called recent comments and lists most recent first. You can change how many show in your personal profile under display pref.

oops is asking whether we can make a page of it, but as far as I know, we can’t.

.

I prefer this site-its comfortable to me, I “know” the folks, the routine, etc. New site is great, and I have registered and spent some time there but I just prefer this one. My dh, however, really digs the new site, and dosn’t care for this one at all. I think if we are trying to reach as many folks as possible its fantastic to have two different site for different preferences. And I think thats all it is-not that one is “better” than the other-they just offer different approaches to different preferences.

I also think the mods have been fantastic, and extreamly helpful. I have been bummed about some grouchyness on the wiki-and I would prefer that no-one had to be banned-but I also think the mods are using their best judgment. To use a really simple example-its rather like when a couple of kids disrupts a classroom and everybody loses their recess. Man what a grouchy old teacher! trying to keep us focused and on task with flu info instead of letting us have a political/religous/whatever free for all. The thing is-we have the mother of all EXAMS coming up-(lets hope it not the FINAL exam)and its not graded-its pass or fail.

(sorry if I got too carried away with the metaphor here)

Thanks for answering DenfromCT. I wasn’t sure if soapblox would be able to make up that type of page.

Green Mom – at 11:14

Thank you!!! oh, and did I say thank you? ;-)

If your husband goes there and you come here, we have two people, not one, at the Forum!!

hey, just for grins, I came across this from Effect Measure, Wednesday, July 06, 2005

You can’t know where you are going until you know where you have been.

Dem-

To satisy those that wish to be a Troll, is it possible to set up a diary labled something like “Troll”? I noticed CE has a certain place where Trolls can go to argue, and keep it out of the diaries.

FrenchieGirl at 05:58 -

My first visit to the new forum, I hated it. I just shook my head and thought to myself, “OMG, what have they done?” I stayed away from it for a couple of days, came back here and then decided I would go back to the new site, just to register, nothing else. After I registered, I clicked on one thing and then another and before I knew it, I had done my first post. There’s still much I don’t know, but I’ve decided it’ll be OK. For now, I visit both sites. I just know you’ll get the hang of it in no time and I hope to see you at both sites soon :)

Please don’t have a troll area, the arguments always end up making their way back to the regular posts and comments area.

Dem from Planet Earth wrote:

The format is not very friendly here, compared to avianflutalk, for instance, and the new site is clearly worse, as the comments here show. Also the mods here have a bad history of censoring and banning those who criticize them. This is a real problem because the flip side is the mods must ingratiate themselves to a significant percentage of visitors in able to keep up appearances and that turns out to be the most paranoid folks because they are the ones always here on the watch for breaking news, and the paranoid tend to be stock-up-and-dig-in-alone-survivalists, which is really a very bad strategy for most of us.

Personally, I appreciate people who share knowledge, whatever their motivations, so I thank those survivalists for that, and I imagine that most agree. But the isolation/survivalist strategy is a very bad idea and the reason for this is simple. If, in fact, we need to prepare several months of supplies because supplies will be hard to come by after pandemic onset, as most experts warn, then we must expect that most people will soon be desperate for food. The desperate will likely band together in small groups and go door-to-door to find what they need. Wouldn’t you? So, being behind a locked door with a lot of guns is only going to earn you and your kids animosity, and guns will not protect you from smoke…or fire. In other words, if you truly need several months worth of food, then you also truly need to cooperate with a community to secure shared protection for yourself and your family.

Many of you hang out here a lot, its become your virtual community, and you’ll learn the secret handshakes of the new site and so gain a very sad advantage over those who will come later looking for help on the net. The new site will entrench the fluwiki status quo and that is a problem for community prep, especially for families.

DemFromCT replied:

Well, thanks for demonstrating the benefits of registration. This is what is known on the internets as a troll - someone being a jerk specifically to stir trouble.

AND MY HUMBLE OPINION:

Planet earth guy is right on because CT guy proves the point by a snide insult for a reply to a really thoughtful comment instead of any attempt at a meaningful reply. This probably isnt the thred to talk about what a bad idea it is lock yourself up behind closed doors, but the new site will be worse. Ct guy makes it seem like that is the very point of the new site.

OKbirdwatcher – at 11:29

FrenchieGirl at 05:58 -

You can read without posting. ;-)

cottontop – at 11:28

I appreciate the thought and the suggestion.

oops – at 11:34

No troll area. Care and feeding is labor intensive.

Earlier in the thread I suggested putting comment setting to minimal for dial up users. It does open faster but you can’t open the individual comments. :( However changing it to threaded took care of the missing comment text.

I agree with the planet earth people. The whole idea of wiki is ease of use but fluwiki is creating a wikigulag. The new site will probably be an always shrinking group too far from each other to be any kind of community during a pandemic. The moderators here ought to get out of the way but they seem to think this wiki is about them first and flu second. Why else have a thread asking for opinions on the site that has a name-calling moderator handy to stomp on dissent.

Another Planet Earth Guy – at 11:35 wrote:

“Many of you hang out here a lot, its become your virtual community, and you’ll learn the secret handshakes of the new site and so gain a very sad advantage over those who will come later looking for help on the net”.

Some places value honesty over, “secret handshakes” and “sad advantage”.

My 2-cents.

ps After all, isn’t it easier for us to just ignore comments we don’t like than to learn an anti-intuitive interface?

I suggest you put menu controls entirely on the left. That would be similar to the existing site and make the discussions etc easier to read. Those that do not understand the new terms can read the content without the distractions of too many menu options.

I don’t care for minimal for that reason, oops.

Another Planet Earth Guy – at 11:35 wrote:

“Many of you hang out here a lot, its become your virtual community, and you’ll learn the secret handshakes of the new site and so gain a very sad advantage over those who will come later looking for help on the net”.

Geez I wish I had the ability to see the future too. Everyone gains an advantage from a fast moving site. In case of a real pandemic this sites platformn as is would probably fail from the people trying to get info. I realize change is hard and like joining any new site it takes time to get the lay of the land. Instead of bitching , how about wandering around the new site a bit and offer suggestions instead of complaining about a site that hasn’t even been up two days! Just think if you are one of those helping you could even have a say in what the secret handshake will be. ;)

In Cyberspace No One Can Hear You Scream – at 11:56

Good thought but that’s not possible with this iteration. I’ll pass it on for the next upgrade.

wah at 1158

“how about wandering around the new site a bit and offer suggestions instead of complaining about a site that hasn’t even been up two days!”

I did, that’s why i have an opinion, and my opinion is thumbs down because it is not user friendly. It just amazes me as a mother of three that anybody can dream that people will want to waste time learning how to use the new site. the point escapes me

I looked at the new site for the first time a few minutes ago and I have to honestly say I was not very impressed. I tried to go to the site just to read the information and could not until I signed up as a member (many people just like to read the information on flu wiki and do not post - many will not go there if they have to log in as a member).

Navigation is not easy on the site, even when you know what thread you wanted to see. Even within the threads, the text is difficult to read. The margins are moved to the right to differentiate the posters, but it only makes the post very long and hard to read.

I think the readership of the new site will go down (Since it is new, I am sure that membership will be initially high, but with frustration of using the site, there might be fewer people returning to use it).

Another jerk i guess – at 12:09 wrote:

“that’s why i have an opinion,”

I operate several different operating systems, dozens of pieces of software with multiple versions, half a dozen desktops & laptops, while stationary and mobile 24/7 in the course of my time-critical work. I share your pain “mother of three”.

I hope moderators realize we are speaking about the task of learning and sharing. This is not personal. We want to join you in the new forum but it is confusing. Contributors should not be your biggest problem. We do not all read the same newspaper but this site is an important source of information that cannot be found in our local papers. If we express the concern that it actively concerned members of the community hare having trouble communicating with others, the administrators should respond appropriately.

Hi all, I just got back on the computer after being way too busy for my own good! Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving!

I’ve scanned through this thread (isn’t it nice to be able to say that) and I know that several of us are glad this “Old Yeller” is still alive & kickin’…..we’re learning & it’s not too terribly frightening over there.

For me, I stay here most of the time, but I do make a point each day to go over ‘there’ at least once a day & play a little with it — that’s how I’m learning.

And Dem, I have to say that you have a good dose of the 2 P’s — patience & perserverance — to lead us through this…Thanks again for helping out over here with questions and for your positive attitude even when someone’s pickin’ on you some.

anon – at 12:21

I hope moderators realize we are speaking about the task of learning and sharing. This is not personal. We want to join you in the new forum but it is confusing. Contributors should not be your biggest problem. We do not all read the same newspaper but this site is an important source of information that cannot be found in our local papers. If we express the concern that it actively concerned members of the community hare having trouble communicating with others, the administrators should respond appropriately

I fully understand that and do not take any of this personally. That, in a nutshell, is why there are two sites.

Therefore I trust you are clearly documenting user feedback and presenting it to the software developers to help improve their product and yours.

I’m-workin’-on-it – at 12:24

Thank you. Apparently there are folks who are actively trying to disrupt things here. That’s unfortunate.

anon – at 12:39

Yep, and you can, too.

http://www.soapblox.net/blog/frontPage.do

DemFromCT – at 12:41

It’s part of the process, that’s all.

You know what this is like? A couple of months ago, I rearranged my pantry. Lord was that a task. I had to unload stuff, things got out of use by date order, jars and can lids needed to be wiped to get the dust off, I needed to brace shelves for reloading, I had to reposition stuff, and regroup stuff in order to get like things together. It was a bear of a task….but it got done, still being tweaked, but for the most part it’s done. It was like birthing the whole thing again in some ways.

That’s sort of what the “other” site is going through, and because of that confusion over there, it’s causing things here to be somewhat confused. My husband and I didn’t always agree on where the peanut butter should go — or the green beans for that matter — but by golly it all got put back, and it made room for more stuff to be put in and organized — maybe you should rename the forum over there “The Pantry”! :-)

It’s just going to take some time & yep, sometimes there’s something spoiled in there that needs to be culled, sort of like someone trying to spoil things for others here.

All in all, it’s nice to have 2 “pantries”!

“The Pantry”! :-)

excellent.

Sniffles – at 12:17

You do have to register to change the comments to look like here. As to readership and activity, if I discuss how active it is, people say all I care about is stats, and if i don’t, then people will say it will fail for lack of activity ;-)

Check the comments. Folks are getting used to it. And as a point of information, sites using this kind of software in the internet are very robust with lots of members and lots of conversation (and lots sortable, retrievable information - which is the point), so i think you may be underestimating posters here (something I’m oft accused of, for some reason ) ;-).

Some of the Indonesia trackers appreciate the easy ability to show the maps they make. The sorters putting recipes and other things on the wiki appreciate it (see Mari’s comments). The ability to show video for teaching purposes is very cool.

In the meantime, drop by now and again, and it may seem more familiar. Or, stay here and relevant links from there will be left to check from time to time.

DemFromPlanetEarth = Another Planet Earth Guy = Another Jerk I Guess. All the same person. All banned.

I’ve made it to the new forum, and it does have alot of advantages, not the least of which is that it is keeping out the people who try to pose as others to defraud and disrupt things. (may they be the first to experience H5N1 close up and personal!) (oops…very mean thought. But I can’t understand why they’ve decided to mess with this forum…obviously aren’t taking the threat seriously.) ANYWAY, just wanted to suggest one change to the new forum…do something graphically to break up the entries. It is hard to scan quickly one to the next. Either highlight the name of the sender and time, or something. Thanks though, good work. I think it will all be fine once we get used to it and more people are posting on it rather than here. Aloha

I’ll be thankful for comments on the new site not appearing, disappearing,reappearing,disappear……

Please read my comments above. They are from someone frustrated, resistant to change, and stubborn. I too don’t have time to learn all of the new things promised. Difficult to read? Maybe. Different? Certainly.

Now here I am to say, “It’s OK, I get it!” It took me another hour it just sort of came together. The trick is getting the view set to something that works for you. I like (oldest first, flat(unthreaded)). To be honest, it’s fun and I think in another week/month we will see many more people ‘over there’. I do stand by my statement that some of the TPTB/closet lurkers may not have time to cruise in and out like they used to BUT the regular flu wiki people will adapt and thrive. If I can get it, it’s possible for anyone. Change can be rough but it’s going to be OK. Mods made a good call.

Correcton:

pogge= DemFromPlanetEarth = Another Planet Earth Guy = Another Jerk I Guess. All the same person. All banned.

PS: Some don’t want to register. Paranoia? Why? It’s just your email. Are we afraid we are going to get more junk mail? One thing I have learned with email is how to press the delete button. I know, it’s some people’s choice. Their right to privacy. Let me ask you this: If someone really wanted to find you based on the sites you visit, don’t you think they could do that anyway? The internet is not a private place. If you had to sign up to get an internet service provider, you can be tracked/spammed. I may be wrong. If so, let me know.

Sure won’t miss the trolls using sockpuppets to talk to themselves … nor will I miss the spambots.

Not possible and don’t want to do this BUT I can explain how to use a site over the phone much easier than typing it all out. A help line would be overwhelmed but would help those challenged by the new site. My advice: if there is someone on the wiki that you know and/or talk to person to person, give them a call. You will be comfortable in about 10 minutes with the new wiki.

Dearest Crfullmoon – at 07:48 - Those higher-ups maybe already have all sorts of “guidelines” to pull out during pandemic, and rather alarming, and unpublicized, “planning assumptions” that we’d better get discussing ahead of time, while people can make better preparations on individual and municipal levels.

I wanted to have some of those higher-ups looking to FW/FWForum to actually draft their guidelines from scratch…

and

Perhaps if you ask them what they think will happen and ask why, and were sitting down online with them and could pull up some things they haven’t seen?

Some of these higher-ups just do not have the time to sit with me or anyone in front of the computer and spend hours learning new ways at age 50 or over (most higher-ups are in transition between middle-age and third-age, when not downright old-age…), squinting their eyes with dual-focus glasses. They either want to read straight and easy the information that is going to be useful, or ask the likes of me to provide legible print-outs sorted for their priorities. It’s bad enough that they have to learn the modern ways of consulting the international institutions publications on-line rather than in leather-bound books and trying to persuade them to give the benefit of the doubt to the blogger/fora communities, but if on top of that they have to place their brains in a spin-dryer reading such an unusual format as the new Forum, they’ll just miss out much info.

As for DemFromCT – at 11:37 FrenchieGirl at 05:58 - You can read without posting. ;-) I have every intention to give it some more trial, without much hope however. Since I am not a major contributor anyway, it won’t much matter if I don’t post there. And that’s OK with me, even more so since I’ll soon be away for some weeks anyway getting my mental arcanes some well-deserved sunshine.

and

DemFromCT – at 12:41 Apparently there are folks who are actively trying to disrupt things here. That’s unfortunate.

I shan’t take this personally, but I shall point out that those having negative comments were asked for their honest opinion - and mine was my honest opinion. Maybe I should have worded it differently, so I’ll try again:

For starters, there’s too much different typeface, so it is straining for the brain to know where one piece by one author starts and where it finishes - it’s distracting. The info that one may see just jumps at you and you get overloaded. The impression is being controlled by the beast not a human being having control of it. So, maybe revise the layout.

There are three columns which it seems cannot be easily customized to become one or two columns. In the central column appear things I may not want to see at first. The divisions on the left-hand side look like they are all different “organized chatting rooms” - since I may not necessarily be interested in viewing a “subject” or a “hot tags” more than once or twice, there will be waste for me, whereas, in the old forum, the titles reflected a particular item of a bigger heading that would have grabbed my attention along many posts. It also better reflected the mood of the hive mind. Sometimes, some weeks were spent discussing all aspects of viroly, vaccines, medicines, and some other weeks, local community preparedness, governmental action, and yet other weeks, the hive mind was more interested in analysing breaking news, or food, or area prepping. Also, sometimes, the names on the threads, even though their subject was not of a particular interest to me, would draw my attention and I would go there to read. I would not feel inclined to do this with the new forum.

My overall impression is that the new forum is in some way divisive. I actually liked it here because the approach to all areas was spontaneous, one after the other someone would start a thread for a particular interest and it would remain up until the subject dried up to its natural sleep. In a way, it reflected the very different levels at which the mind works, not necessarily tidyly. The new one is so tidy that it may be useful for the organized types, but not for the creative ones. The audience would be different to what I thought this forum was: a congress of minds that would throw their creative mind power at any and all problems thrusted at them. The “organized legion” of the new forum makes this more difficult for such types as I.

As for the clicking too much business, I probably will not be alone in noting that, like me, some are already spending their days clicking. For this I often get bad neck, shoulder, arm and hand aches, sometimes waking me up at night, with at one point a carpial syndrome. I have arrived at the point where, rather than stuff myself with anti-inflammatories for my excited nerves that go from my cervical vertebras to my fingers, I would rather economize on my mouse-clicking movements.

Finally, it would be nice to be able to change the colour scheme, if not for everyone, at least if we could customize it individually. Whatever the big specialists may say about grey and green, my eyes this morning were sore, runny and itchy. Which I know I get when I have to work on such colours at work - it was not tiredness or a cold on this particular day that made my eyes water.

That’s about it. My coloured exclamations were nothing more than expressing the frustration in keen and spontaneous spirit. No insult was meant to anyone. I hope these comments will be viewed as constructive, as I offer them that way.

FrenchieGirl – at 14:44

I was referring to the sockpuppets who were banned, see pogge – at 13:13

I was not referring to you in the least!! All your questions and comments and commitment are much appreciated!!

The week we had the beta testers there, we tried about 10 different schemes. This one was the consensus. We are open to trying again sometime in the near future, but there’ll not be something that pleases everyone.

the new one is so tidy that it may be useful for the organized types, but not for the creative ones.

A case can be made for just the opposite. There is much more cross-posting between threads instead of the single thread posting here because you can see what’s going on in all the threads via the recent comments, and link and answer individual comments. When you are not logged on, you lose some of that, alas. You can’t see (3 new) comments show up in red to tell yuo there’s activity in that recent diary. Further, the creative types can show the maps and tables and other projects they have been working on to everyone, and get input.

Different strokes ;-)

I’d like to put in my plug for the new forum. I am one of those people so hopelessly dense with technology that I have been “updated” right out of other services because I could no longer figure out the upgrades.

That having been said, I love the new forum. I like seeing the quotes from the new postings on the side, pulling me into topics I might not have investigated, much like the old “Quotes” thread did here. And what is the big deal about the html stuff? You turn it on, you turn it off, it’s like a light switch. Not hard at all. I could never learn how to make colors or bolding here. Over on the new one, I’m already pimping up my posts.

Two things have made the new forum work better for me, after using it for a few days: I set the posting preferences for “flat” so I didn’t get indents or column squish. Now the threads read much as they do here, but all of the new ones are marked. I also set the preference for number of new posts and diaries to 99 so at a glance, I could see as many “threads” as I ever looked at here.

Dem, if you could set these preferences as a default, I think people would like the new forum more.

I’ll be doing most of my posting over there

I think some people may be forgetting, or perhaps don’t know, why we started looking at alternatives in the first place. In some respects, this forum is a dead end.

The scripts that run this forum were intended to provide a simple forum as an accessory to a wiki, not to run a full-blown busy message board. The forum here outgrew any expectations we had and continuing on this platform with the kind of traffic and participation we were seeing was simply not an option.

When the traffic here gets too high, this place slows down and even crashes. If I allow too many threads to accumulate on the server, the place slows down and even crashes (which is why I regularly review old content and pull some threads off the server).

We could have gone looking for hardware solutions, but that’s an expensive answer when the problem is that we’re running software that wasn’t designed for the use we’re putting it to. With the traffic down somewhat here, it seems to me to be running more consistently the last few days. This site runs OK as a smaller community but the growth potential isn’t there. It simply doesn’t make sense to throw a lot of money at something because you insist on using it for a job it was never intended for.

Having said that, I’m close to upgrading the platform here and I mean a newer version of the software we’re already running. After the upgrade you’ll see a few new bells and whistles but essentially the same forum with the same functionality. I wouldn’t be bothering if we were planning on closing the doors here next week.

examples…

I like the new site. It’s just different. Pogge, thanks for getting rid of the sock puppets. I’ve heard the term before but didn’t really understand what it meant. Dem, I’m nominating you for sainthood. I don’t know how you don’t take all this personally; I know I would. I’m wondering one thing - did this new system cost you and the other mods money? Are you paying for the new site (plus the eventual new upgrade here) out of your own pockets? Just wondering.

did this new system cost you and the other mods money? Are you paying for the new site (plus the eventual new upgrade here) out of your own pockets?

Some and yes. So did the old system(s). We plan on doing the following about that - we are establishing a non-profit for Flu Wiki and then we will ask for donations. not until then, though. people here are very generous with their timne and money, but we want to do this right. We are non-commercial and plan to stay that way.

I appreciate all the work you guys did on the new site. My suggestion is that if you don’t want to go there don’t, however, with time, we can all learn to use it if we really want to. Just remember, you guys are all smarter than most of the population, because you have learned and responded to a threat that everyone else seems to want to ignore. With all the analying and checking of sources, and from the questions I read, and responses, I know you guys can learn anything if you want to. I have no stake in the new site, just an average flu wiki reader and poster, and I am going to work on learning to nagvigate the new site. I will still stay here too. I like to learn new things. Good luck.

Northstar -

How do you set the posting preferences to “flat?” How do you get to anywhere that you can decide preferences?

DemFromCT -

I was also just trying to give you my honest opinion. I thought that is what you really wanted. Maybe I was too honest. I am sorry if I just sounded upset.

I see clearly what is before me on this forum. I do not on the new forum. There are a lot of different words for each post that are not just the post, but appear to be part of it because they do not stick out bolder (like name of poster and time etc), so that even clearly seeing the posted words is not easy. Visually the new forum is not welcoming to me.

I am just one person, and I assume in time I can use the new forum without too much stress. However, sorting through the posts is the hardest part for me. The visual clarity is not there. I am not sure if there is any way for you to allow greater visual clarity or not.

I think all the Mods have done a remarkable job! I could never have done what you all have done.

JV – at 17:29

I was also just trying to give you my honest opinion. I thought that is what you really wanted. Maybe I was too honest. I am sorry if I just sounded upset.

I have no idea why you wrote that ;-) Honesty is exactly what I wanted.

I can help you with the flat part, and I can also suggest you try the Diaries entrance. For flat (unthreaded), you need to go to your personal page. On every page there is a Menu, upper right, and there is written JV’s Page. On it, to the right is Profile. Click on it. In the middle of the page, it sets comment pref. Set it to flat unthreaded, and the time to either oldest first or newest first. And SAVE THE PAGE before you leave.

Ruth – at 17:21

Thank you. You are quite reasonable. ;-)

diana – at 11:31 wrote”

“But then I am dense.”

You are not dense Diana - just honest. Take care.

I keep trying but I keep having a hard time find new comments. I keep reading about how to do it, then try, then fail. I’ll keep trying. It just seems like lots of space and indentations and doohickeys. I’m not whining - really! I’ll keep trying.

happy to help here or there. New comments are:

• the front page on the left in the box that says Recent Comments.
• the front page on the right where there is the Recent Diaries box.
• the recent comments box.

These are all on the front page of the new site but only when you are logged in will you see the new comments.

now, inside the diary when you open it and see all the copmments, you can see this:

but that is only when you are logged in, and each time you open the diary, all the [new] postings go away the next time.

hope that helps.

Dem or other mods: I didn’t realize we had a choice until I was trying to navigate the new one and saw people talking about this one! My main concern about the new is it will be very confusing for newcombers. There is a lot of text to get through on the main pages to try and figure out where stuff is. Since I’ve been on for awhile I am familiar with topics. But not so with newbies. Will that get more user friendly? Also, how long will both be up? Cheers!

LauraB – at 20:05

There are people on the internet who are very familiar with this type of software, layout,etc. and lots of them. Those newbies will have zero trouble with this.

At first I thought weeks for both to be up, but now I’m thinking months or longer. See DemFromCT – at 15:54 for the next expected upgrade here.

won’t be on much either there or here

LMWatBullRun – at 20:17

That’s your choice, thanks. Others will be, here and there.

“Papa Bear” >;)

I started this thread with the intention of finding out what the reasons would be for someone to not join the “new” site. It was certainly not my intention to “stir things up,” but I was really looking for honest appraisals of people’s apprehensions, or limitations (computer capabilities, etc.) and for the reasons for not wanting to move over. It appears that there are many reasons. You have been a gem through all of this and I sincerely don’t understand how you can do what you do, while holding down a full time job “elsewhere.” Regardless of peoples’ perceptions and feelings, I think everyone is very appreciative of all of the efforts of you and others, particularly “pogge”. I did have a feeling that some of the “family” might be left behind, but since both sites are so well linked, and it is obvious that attention is still being paid to both sites, that both may survive. :) That is very admirable. In fact, since the load is off of this site, it is now “fast” compared to what it used to be. :) Kind of reminds me of a family gatherings at Holidays…the “love” is there, but not always the sensitivity to feelings and differences. We have to learn to appreciate the differences too. :) I hate bickering, and normally retreat when it begins, but I am constantly amazed how you withstand it all. One of these days, I hope to have the privilege of meeting you in person. :) It would be an honor. :)

I guess with my previous post, I just wanted to keep in mind the lurkers who may not necessarily want to post themselves, but want to stay updated on news/events - they are the ones that will not want to register. It would be nice to have the ability to read the information and not have the ability to post.

I know several people who, believe it or not, found this site challenging to maneuver because they are not computer savy. They are people who may not know their way around computers very much, but realize that they need to educate themselves more about avian flu. I would hate to see them left behind.

Snowhound1 – at 20:26

It’d be my pleasure some day. I have obligations to my community, real and virtual, that’s how i see it. But both sites are pretty active and what we’ve done is kept the same number of viewers and increased the page hits (combined) by 1/3 while taking the load off this server (which could never have handled it).

Not bad for a weekend’s work. We’ll see how the weekday goes, as word gets out.

I will close the thread and open a new one…

Thanks, Snowhound1 – and we couldn’t do it without pogge, anon_22 and the deputies (BB, MaMa and AnnieB).

Sniffles

I appreciate that! Here or there, if you are unfamiliar with the conventions, you won’t find your way around easily. People who are used to the software will have no trouble - and there are more people used to that software than this software.

So, one way or another, some time will need to be spent learning something. ;-)

Apparently, there are users who seem to know their way around next door already.

We all have to think about how we approach those with no computers at all. This site isn’t the answer for them… that’s why we do a Pan Flu Awareness week every year, but we need to think of other ways, too.