Continued from Flu Prep XXIV.
I am so excited about my latest prep that I’m puttin it everywhere……LOL…I just got my biggest prep ever……a TREADLE SEWING MACHINE…….yup….I can sew and quilt even with no electric. Now I’m a happy camper…….:)
Lady Biker: way to go. You’ll love it. Don’t forget to get extra belts. did you find out your machine’s birthday? Contact Singer and they can tell you when and where it was made by the serial number on the machine. (Oops, assuming it’s a Singer) If you haven’t used one before you might want to practice with paper first to get the feel of the teadle stop and start. You can see the hole punch and don’t have to rip out. Have a great time. Near a window is a good place to put it because of lighting to see to sew and quilt.
Thats a really great prep item, -congrats! I have one and I love it. They are really cool.
That would be sweet! I am so jealous! LOL
Do you guys think I should move my canned items out of the garage with winter coming on? I think it gets to about 10 degrees in there.
Lohrewok-Do you have another place to put them?
Are you talking about hommed canned items in glass, or store bought items in “Tin” cans?
Thats a good question because I really don’t think you should let canned goods either kind) freeze. With glass jars, theres the potential of breakage although jars you buy for canning are also supposed to be used in the freezer.
(Wince. :-( I lost my Singer presser foot during a move. Really need to find a replacement. The screw for it is at the back, not the side.)
Happy Halloween!
lohrewok – at 07:13
It would be prudent to move canned goods (any food product) to an area that is both cool in temperature and consistent in temperature. The cans can split and develop leaks if frozen solid and from what I have read here at FW and elsewhere, wide variations in temperature during storage will degrade flavor, degrade nutrient value, and reduce shelf life. MHO
Lohrewok: Yes, move the jars out of an area that can freeze hard. It’s not that the jars break, they contract and the seals pop. I’ve frozen jars (on purpose) and the lids always come loose.
Lady Biker: I am so jealous! And so kicking myself — a couple years ago I picked up a great treadle Singer on the side of the road someone was throwing out — it had all the accessories still in the little drawers and everything. It had been retrofitted with a motor and some point. My husband gives me the hairy eyeball about these finds so, not really having room for it in the garage, I sold it at a garage sale for about $30. Dumb! Dumb!
Northstar @ 9:02 That one you sold is probably the one Lady Biker got. (dumb joke I know).
These are store bought cans. I am not advanced enough to can my own stuff. I’ll move them out. Thanks guys. The boy is going to be so delighted to come home to find his closet has been taken over. LOL
Whenever I thought of flu I remember one bad one I had as a child. That was my reference point for all this H5N1 stuff. anyway, just realized yesterday in was in 1968. We had just moved to a new town, and I remember being in a make-shift bed in the living room with a very high fever. Of course I didn’t know what was wrong with me, just remember being very scared and seeing the room was tilting and mice were crawling over me. Nobody else in my family got ill, that I remember. I was 8. Can’t ask my parents for their memories as they’ve both passed on.
Y’all may already know this but apparently in the states where WalMart is doing the $4 prescriptions, Costco and Target are matching the deal — I guess on exactly the same generics. I didn’t know that until I read an article about it yesterday.
What a mess!!! I had NINE 2.5 gallon water jugs all start leaking about the same time. It wouldn’t have been quite as bad if they hadn’t been above some cabinetry in the pantry.
Up high I didn’t even notice that they had started to leak until it was way too late not to have a mess of gigantic proportions.
Lucky for me that nothing in the cabinets below were in boxes. I have some cans that have a little rust on the bottom, but it looks like I can just wipe that off. The rest were empty canning jars. The cabinets were cheap so of course there is some cabinet damage, but nothing that I can’t live with … they weren’t in the best condition to start with as they are leftovers from the previous home owner’s kitchen remodeling.
What clued me in was a sour odor that had developed … the water “soured” like such stuff does here in Florida when the ac isn’t on. I’ve got a mess to clean up where the water leaked all down the cabinets and onto some other stuff below. Not too much in loss … but lost time in cleaning it up.
But I’m thankful as it really could have been a lot worse. Now to figure out some other way of storing water. I’ll probably have to buy bottlers instead of jugs and then leave them in the cases they come in and store them on the floor. Oh joy. Oh well, at least I know sooner rather than later when that kind of loss really could have been a disaster of mammoth proportions.
lady biker – at 23:22 - Where did you get your treadle sewing machine, and how much did it cost?
Kathy in FL – at 10:00 Same thing happened to me! I had recycled old milk jugs and filled with water treated with bleach, and stored in basement near potting and gardening supplies, to be used only for washing, etc., not drinking. a few of them leaked and I had inadvertently left a box of “blood meal” fertilizer on the floor - needless to say, it smelled like something died.
Milk jugs always end up leaking, because they are meant to degrade over time. For some reason the plastic bottles that water comes in seems to break down eventually too. I have noticed they are ok for about a year or two at best.
The two best ways to store water is either in empty, cleaned 2 litre plastic pop bottles (these last a long time, haven’t had one go bad ever), or in water storage containers that are sold in camping departments.
I have a bunch of the 5 gallon collapsible containers from Walmart, they cost me a little less than $6 each. They are nice because when filled they take on a square shape, and have a spigot and a handle. And when empty, they fold flat for storage.
There are 5 and 7 gallon rigid plastic water containers in the same aisle, but they do cost more. Depending on where you plan to store your water, they might be a better option for you. Just never store water directly on the floor and especially not on cement because there are chemicals that can leech through the plastic and get into the water. Gives it a really nasty taste (might be toxic even, I never thought to check).
Any of these can store tap water for a long time. I try to rotate mine out on the first of every month to make sure it stays fresh. I water plants with it and do laundry. The tap water has chlorine added to it already so no need to add more unless you have a water filter.
Almost forgot, I got in a big order from Honeyville today. Love to see those cans going on the prep shelves! ^_^ I found some chicken and beef at a great price yesterday, so as I am busy with canning all day today.
deborah – at 13:36
I have a bunch of the 5 gallon collapsible containers from Walmart, they cost me a little less than $6 each. They are nice because when filled they take on a square shape, and have a spigot and a handle. And when empty, they fold flat for storage.
I have 2 of these, and really dislike them. Have you filled your up yet? I have one filled now, and it leaks really bad around the spigot if its not set up “just right”. There’s no way I could set it up so that the spigot could be used correctly without having a huge puddle on the floor under it.
Trolling through Half Price Books yesterday, I came upon a reprinted Fannie Farmer 1896 cookbook! It has instructions for cooking with wood and on woodstoves and has recipes for dishes using commonly used ingredients. There’s even a section of foods for sick people(oatmeal gruel, anyone?).
AND it was under ten bucks. I snapped that sucker up so fast I almost got a paper cut.
It was a hoot reading what was expected of feeding a sick person. Silver, crystal, china, a good napkin-no fringe because that might annoy the patient-and a small vase of flowers to perk up the patient. Don’t know about anyone else, but when I’m sick, I’m not worrying about fringe on a napking.LOL
Here’s a free on-line version of the 1918 Fanny Farmer Cookbook:
I saw today that my local Target has Emergen-C on sale for $5.49 for a 36-packet box. I’m going to have to stop by there tomorrow. Sale was good through the 4th of November.
Carrey in VA – at 14:27
I keep 4 filled all the time. I store them handle side up which keeps the spigot at the top. So far I haven’t had any trouble with them leaking.When I use the water I turn it forward a bit and then put it back upright afterwards. I never tried storing it with the spigot down so I can’t comment on that. :(
I have 16 more stored in a plastic tote, and can fill them if I have reason to think our water supply could be compromised. Usually there are warnings given if water lines are going to be worked on in my community. The 20 gallons is enough for me and DH for at least 5 days if we use it for drinking, cooking, and minor cleaning (brushing teeth). I have more empties just in case of a possible emergency (storms coming, possible pandemic, other reasons).
Mari at 10:56……..I found it on Ebay…….you would be surprised how many there are on there…..I gave 71.00 dollars for it…..and it is beautiful and yes it is a Singer…LOLOL…….it’s in wonderful shape…….and I am just as happy as could be. it was a major prep for me, I have been wanting one for a long time.
I found a prep calculator. I apologise if it’s been posted before, but it’s neat and even includes non food items.
Neat, but not complete. Don`t see major necessities ie; coffee, tea, and BBRWFK
cactus – at 20:18
It looks like the same one as at the LDS site. It may have been created by a Morman and thus the no caffeine, no alcohol. 8^(
Keep a variety- milk jugs and pop-bottles. We don’t know and we havn’t tested them.No-one has- don’t let them tell you so.
I am going to wash my undies by hand and put them into a salad spinner to wring out. This idea just popped into my mind so I haven’t tried it out yet. It sounds logical to me since we won’t be having lots of salad for PF. Maybe I’ve already read that? I don’t know were ideas come from anymore…
That prep calculator is interesting as a place to start with calculations, especially for newbies. I like that it’s got different month options - I think LDS is only for one year which can appear overwhelming when you look at the quantities. But some of it is way off - it said I needed 13 10# cans of dried onions? And 30 pounds of honey?
rph - it is well known that milk containers degrade over time. They are okay for short term storage, collecting water, etc. but then you should move it into something else. Best bet is reusing exitisting water containers, collapsable containers or soda bottles.
Spirit in the Wind – at 19:56 I like the calc too — it IS over the top on somethings….I haven’t consumed 13 lbs of cocoa in my entire life & I’m 50! But for the basics YES it’s a really great start & having smaller lengths of time is always a good thing. Anyone you pass it on to needs to be reminded to consider any special needs of those you’ll be caring for — elderly, infants (they can’t have honey for instance) and pets for additional needs.
I guess I should say to rph, that some of us HAVE tested the milk cartons and they DO leak, so it’s up to you to do your homework on this as you should do on ANYthing from batteries to water to pinto beans. Lessons are learned from mistakes….the BEST lessons are learned from other people’s mistakes!
LauraB - at 07:17
I think it’s abit off too. But it is a good place to at least start and see what kinda volume we are talking about. Plus it doesn’t have meat or veggies in it (or at least the one I saw when I started didn’t) So you have to adjust for that. And I’m not storing wheat berries, so there’s another adjustment, and the way we eat, we acually need MORE honey. It’s kinda like a man walking into a store to buy a high end suit. The attendent finds a suit that almost fits the man on the rack. The man tries it on, and the sleeves need to be leanthened a bit, and the cuffs shortened, you get the picture.
There are dozens of vacation cabins in and around my area. The tourist trade will come to a scretching halt and the cabins will be unused. They all have 250–1000 gallon propane tanks. I was wondering if there is a way to safely fill 20 lb cannisters from these larger tanks. It seems like a windfall of propane if I can tap into the unused tanks.
Anyone have a source or knowledge of this type of activity?
(Are you sure some other city people haven’t remembered those cabins? What if they are on people’s bug-out plans? )
;-)
Or what if they are on the local ptb’s plans; to use those cabins? (Or am I crediting them with too much foresight? sigh.)
EastTn - My first concern (being an E. Tn hillbilly myself) would be the feller with the shotgun guarding the property. “Them hills provide plenty of cover.” Sorry don’t know the real answer to your question. Just a moment of silliness here at the office.
HennyPenny – at 13:35
I agree with the sillyness, as you know, that is a concern around here. But now adays they build the cabin and sell it to some investor in another state, who does a 60/40 cut with the management business. I am just thinking down the road, I have plenty of propane for a year, but just was thinking about a potential source.
Good to hear from you HP
Speaking of sewing machines (congrats on your purchase, lady biker), does amyone have experience with the new treadle machines sold on Lehman’s web site? It’s very expensive, but comes with all the parts you need. http://tinyurl.com/ygq37r
Also, does anyone have sources for good quality thread and other sewing needs, suitable for buying in bulk?
Thanks in advance…
Ebay for sewing products in bulk! other than that I’m at a loss.
Thinking about adding to our preps with rice, beans, grains, etc. in super pails. Running out of room here and am on the fence about placing yet another prepping order. Any advice?
Blackbird-at 1410: I’ve used Hancock’s of Paducah. Good selection of good quality sewing supplies and fabric(which can be bought by the bolt, a good way to buy muslin) for less than what I can get in the fabric stores. I use them mainly for quilting fabric and notions.
They will need to be stored carefully, just like any foods — kept away from cold and excessive heat, etc. Is that what you meant??
I’m-workin’-on-it – at 14:54
Thank you for your kind response. Actually, I guess I am asking a very stupid question - which is when is enough? When do you say uncle on preps and shut off the money spigot?
I can always dream up another reason to take on more preps. I’v filled the space beneath the stairs and now I’ll need to branch out into other areas w/i the house and I think my wonderful spouse is going to start balking, LOL. : )
I bought a lot of canning jars at a garage sale last weekend for my dehydrated stuff (making my own soup mixes) because even though I am not canning now, I may have to…long term. I was thinking about what I could use some of those jars for now however and I put matches in 2 jars so they don’t get wet or damp. I have them in plastic baggies in my BOB.
I also moved my medicines out of the bathroom to a cooler and less humid area of the house so they will last longer.
I have been prepping for BF for about 10 months for two of us. A while back I started to slow down on purchasing more preps because our basement was getting full and we thought we did have a LOT down there, and a good variety too. Two months ago we arrived at our store we own and the road was closed directly in front of our store without even a warning from the city. When called, they stated it would be “only a couple of days” before it was to be re-opened. 8 weeks later the road was still not re-opened and the city stated there was nothing they could do to expedite the work.
My point is we dipped into the preps in order to stay “current” on bills. We have now learned we have only about two months worth of most foods. What LOOKS like a tremendous amount of food, actually ISN’T. I also learned there were things of which I didn’t have enough and things of which I didn’t have a backup at all. We’re not stockpiling dried beans and canning our own foods. We are buying canned foods and their equivalents because there are only two of us. We had a what looked like a lot of food and other needed items on our shelves.
I thought we were “prepared”. In short, we were not. And now because of something beyond our control and not really a big deal in the grand scheme, we have MUCH further to go. Don’t be surprised about your preps - try it out & watch carefully what you do go through in a week, a month. This is the first time we HAD to use the preps and I think a lot of people who are prepping would be surprised at what they actually use too.
Thanks anonymous one @ 15:37. Makes me rethink what I’ve got put away already.
Are we there yet – at 14:58 … when is enough? When do you say uncle on preps and shut off the money spigot?
One way of determining that would be to:
# add up all of the calories you have stored under your stairs;
# total the weight of the members of your household (in pounds) and muliply that by 10 or 15 (or both, if you want a range);
# divide the total number of calories by the number(s) you get in #2.
That will be the number of days’ worth of food you have stored.
Example: You determine that you have 250,000 calories of food stored under the stairs. The combined weight of your household members is 300 pounds. 300 x 10 = 3000. 300 x 15 = 4500. Your preps would last for 250,000 / 3000 = 83 days at minimal energy expenditure, or 250,000 / 4500 = 56 days at moderate-high energy expenditure.
Once you are satisfied with the number of days at your expected energy expenditure, you can be satisfied. Whether you stop prepping at that point is up to you :)
PBQ, I bought a lot of antique canning jars myself, and didn’t know what I would do with them all, but they are now all used up. They are now holding Sam’s Club sized spices, and kept in a kitchen cupboard in the dark. They do a great job of keeping spices, as the glass preserves the freshness better than the plastic bottles the spices come in.
I also made a lot of homemade spice mixes (look on allrecipes.com), and bought some spices in cellophane bags, then put them in glass jars for long term storage. The jars are also good to store baking soda, baking powder, cornstarch, cocoa, tea, ground oatmeal for baking cookie bars (they come out with a lot finer texture, and my family likes them better). Also bandaids, cotton balls, Q tips, dental flossers, packs of sewing needles or other sharps, nails, screws…
Now I’m buying large popcorn tins for storing pasta and pet food. The lady at the store said nobody buys these for the popcorn, they buy them for the tins!
That is an excellent object lesson. “Eye-balling” your preps will often lead you to overestimating. Put pen to paper and figure out the number of meals etc. . .I fear this will be particularly the case with people depending on generators to keep the electricity coming. It takes a tremendous amount of gas or diesel to run generators long enough each day to keep fridges cool and freezers cold, and keep the kids occupied with their computer games. For most people they simply will not be able to stock anywere near enough fuel to do the job for longer than a week or two.
Without regular resupply generators are not going to cut it. This I know from running remote lodges in Alaska and Canada and being dependent on generators and people depending on me to keep them running.
Also need to be aware that the noise of the generator running may well attract unwanted attention from looters, gangbangers, Husbands/parents desperate to feed themselves and their families. . . .
Dang, I posted a reply and it disappeared!
Thank you to I’m-workin’-on-it – at 14:12 and Texas Rose at 14:53. I will check ebay and Paducah’s for sewing supplies.
PBQ, buy extra lids if you want to use the yard sale canning jars for canning (unless they are unused). According to Ball’s Blue Book and other sources, the lids aren’t reusable. Experienced canners, please chime in if you have different opinion on this. It’s my understanding that the seals don’t necessarily work a 2nd time…
As far as quantity of food, good advice to check # of calories as a starting point. And by calories within food grouping (beans, grains, dairy, vegetables, vegetables, fruit, etc.).
And also assume a buffer for spoilage or unexpected events. Ever have to throw anything out pre-pandemic? Chances are there will be some jars broken, some food not eaten all in one sitting (I made the mistake of buying 28oz cans of meat… oops…) that will be problematic without refrigeration.
What if mom is visiting when the pandemic hits, or some other close friend/relative, or your neighbor has medical skills needed by a member of your household but their family is starving — your food may have to strech farther than you expect.
Yes, Blackbird got lots of lids and rings at Wal Mart. I have a vacum sealer thing but I like the jars so much better because they might come in handy later on and they do look nicer than lots of bags. Thanks.
Thanks, PBQ. Good to hear.
Are we there yet – at 14:58 I “wish” that were a stupid question, but it’s a very very good question. Several things go through my mind……..I sometimes have to alternate what I buy because of budget constraints — sometimes I buy canned cheese and butter and solar lanterns and sometimes it’s Ramen noodles!
When to say ‘when’…….The quantity CAN look overwelming when it’s piled up on the floor having just unloaded the car/truck/van/18-wheeler or whatever vehicle you use to haul your goods home. And as Anonymous One – at 15:37 said it can LOOK like a lot and it ISN’T.
I think that Anonymous One brought up a very good point — I would dare say that most of the people who are prepping here are doing what I did at first — putting stuff in a closet, pantry, cabinet & keeping it there. I’d open the cabinets and smile at seeing all my preps and close the cabinet again & never touch the stuff. Once you get into the habit, though, of actually USING your preps on a routine basis, you will have a better idea of what is enough and what’s a waste of money. Anonymous One you must be fit to be tied, having this unexpected hardship to deal with……I’d be yelling in some city officials office at this point, but then I have a real short fuse about some things, and no tact either, when I need it the most.
I have learned (and it didn’t happen overnight) that if my husband gets on a ‘kick’ and decides he wants to eat Granola bars with high carbs just before he exercises, that just when I buy a couple hundred, get them vaccuum sealed in their wrappers, labeled, packed in buckets and up to the pantry he decides to go on a diet that calls for equalizing fats and having more proteins than carbs. In other words, the granolas are a thing of the past…..just like the protein powder, the special honey, and so on, with each and every “whim” he has. He can have plain-dual purpose honey, and plain other things and get his protein from the meat I serve and do just fine — that’s better than ‘wasting’ money on a valid item that’s just not going to get used like something else would & used by more people — like a bottle of multi-vitimins.
That taught me to concentrate more on basics — main meal stuff — the ‘extras’ like granola bars, Hershey bars, crackers, potato chips, etc. are not the necessities. I HAVE them, but in much smaller quantity than I started off with when I first started storing foods.
Another consideration is the space you have and using it wisely. Not until I organized and labeled my shelves did I really get a good picture of what I had….and literally taking a picture of it and examining your pictures will tell you a lot too. Print out your pictures & spread them on the table & really look at your stock objectively & it will tell you a story about what else you can do o roub=nd out the supplies as well as save space. I posted pics of my pantry on the Pics of Preps thread & you can see that I have room to grow that I haven’t used all of yet.
As far as space, most people don’t make use of the height they have either the space between shelves & using the entire height, or using the entire height of a wall or closet, so make sure you utilize all your space — safely where you can reach it & it won’t get knocked over.
So, if you’ve determined what essential foods you need and you have them in more quantity than the fun foods and the cleaning supplies (you really DON’T need a whole lot of them), and they’re packed tightly and neatly, (read the thread on Apartment Preppers for space ideas), then the only other thing you can begin to do is to replace the bulky items with something more compact — for instance, replace the jars or cans of tomato sauce, paste, etc, with concentrated tomato powder. Replace the egg noodles (unless they are the no-yolk for dietary purposes) with compressed Ramen noodles, etc., and keep a copy of 101 Things to Cook with Ramen Noodles nearby.
Once you’re satisfied with each of those conditions, then you’ve spent enough. It might be at $500 or $5000 or more. The goal is to have manageable stuff that’s worth the space it ytakes up. Quick test your stuff—if it has dust on the top, you’re not using much & you shouldn’t have much of it on your shelf.
….at your stock objectively & it will tell you a story about what else you can do o roub=nd out the supplies….
should be……to round out
lady biker - I have fond memories of the dresses my mother sewed for both me and my sister on a treadle machine. We never had much money, but we had beautiful clothes!
I have a treadle sewing machine too (have had it for many years and works really well) and an old victrola with lots of records. My son (9 years old) loves to crank it up and play the records!
At a library ,free take all you want clearance I picked up a book you all could profit from reading and owning. Carla Emery. The Encyclopedia of Country Living. Sasquatch Books. It is a classic for over 40 years. Intriquing. Everything from Bee Keeping to cooking on a wood stove.You name anything (except for bird flu )written and discussed on the fluwiki and she has something you might find interesting and informative to add to whatever you have picked up here.Was talking to a friend and she told me that her black walnut tree had an incredable year. Her entire lawn covered. I’m sure one of her families workers have cleared it clean if the squirrels didn’t. Also passed a sign (home made). I will have to look at it next week. Large sign. “Do not covet thy neighbors….” and the last word covered by brush. Now why do I think it says “ Wife? “ ?I hope its down the next time I pass by.
The library was clearing out books. Free, take what you want in boxes. One that I think anyone prepping could use. Mine is a ninth edition, being sold for over 40 years.Carla Emery. An old fashione recipe book. “The encyclopedia of Country Living.” Practical advice for anyone prepping, from Bee Keeping to cooking on a wood stove, to catching a pig.
It would appear that I have food preps coming out our ears but in reality I might have 5 months of supplies for our family of seven … and that includes our current month’s groceries.
When I go to the grocery store for the month I come away with at least 2 buggies full of bags and still have to pick up a few things through out the month. That doesn’t include the fact that I buy supersized condiments and staples that last longer than a month.
The holidays are a difficult time of year to try and do yet one more thing … but I’ve recently come up with a plan to help my family “prep” without them even realizing it.
For their gifts they will be getting cases of mixes-in-a-jars such as soups, beverages, breads, etc. I’ll be adding powdered eggs, where applicable, instead of the recipe calling for them to add eggs and will include where possible dried alternatives to other ingredients.
I know it won’t be enough to do much with, but it will be something that they wouldn’t otherwise have. I know my folks really enjoy those types of gifts.
Bought a deep cycle battery and nine hand-crank radio/flashlights.
Last night on the food network’s show “Unwrapped” they were talking about baking powder. The Clabber Girl baking powder folks said that once you open your baking powder it’s good for about 6 months. So I picked up several smaller cans today at the store instead of one big one. I love the fall, when baking supplies go on sale!! It’s time to crank up the gingerbread production line at my house!
I heard that too about baking powder but then I heard you could test it. It’s awhile ago since I did it but I believe it was to put your baking powder (maybe a teaspoon) into a half of a cup of hot water. If it foams instantly it is still good. I tried it on my honking big can that is at least 10 years old; mine worked just fine.I also saw where they used vinegar instead for the test.
Good info on the baking powder test, thanks Prepping Gal!
Today I had a GREAT time — finally took my vacuum sealer out of the box and sealed the leftover halloween candy (so we don’t eat any more of it by mistake).
I’d been putting off using the thing and FINALLY made the time to sit down and figure it out — it wasn’t hard at all. Then went on to more sealing that I’d been meaning to do til I wore myself out so I’m resting now.
It works MUCH better than ironing mylar bags shut, if you ask me. I have a new toy, oh-ay-oh
I get a New Toy (oh ay oh), to keep my head expanding I get a New Toy (oh ay oh), nothing too demanding
Well, I bought 6 boxes of the Emergen-C raspberry flavor mix that was on sale at Target for $5.49 — start using it tomorrow!!
Spices. (Think this had a thread of it’s own once). Just placed a large order with Penzey’s. Have had excellent results with their spices - when properly stored (and even improperly - thanks, kids!) they last a very long time. Very important to be able to ‘spice up’ an otherwise bland (tho nutritious) concoction. Ditto on the comments regarding “when is enough - enough?” What seems like plenty may not be nearly enough in real life. I’m good for 9 months of eating well with plenty of water. Add 2 (non-prepping) adult kids and we’re down to 3 months. I store no food items in the basement - helps me keep track of where I’m really at and keeps my stores safe & dry. Out of sight can sometimes make you believe you’ve got more than enough, I think. My mental calcs are in my face daily.
As much as people say “eat what you store” I have to admit that isn’t exactly what we’re doing. We usually eat fresh vegetables daily along with meat or cheese or beans (lots of soybean) as in salads some soups and some meat and potato dinners. But we really don’t eat much rice, bread, pasta, or canned goods. They aren’t as healthy as we are now eating and I’m trying to incorporate this plus some comfort foods into our diet. I need to do this but I’m also trying to lose my last 20 pounds. Prepped food doesn’t exactly fit into it except for the beans, oatmeal, dry skim milk, and brown rice. My pantry is stuffed and is about 12 x 15 sq ft; I do keep this separate because of the sheer volume and I don’t need visitors knowing about my preps. The kitchen pantry looks like your normal everyday pantry which I keep restocking from the preps pantry. It lets me know how much stuff I actually do use daily.
PG: we’re in the same boat: we eat primarily fresh everything, not that much starch, so a good chunk of my preps are items that I’d likely only use if TSHTF. DH would push his plate away if I gave him canned green beans lol! My problems is my preps are all over the house and I need a good day or so to move them all to one spot, re-organize, donate some things, etc. Eventhough I have things recorded on a spreadshhet, I think I’ll get a better mental picture of my supplies seeing it all togther. Having them more conveniently located will also encourage me to use them more often.
HOMESTEADER: curious why you are so anti-generator? What are your power plans? I think I remember reading before that you are already very self-sufficient. Many of us are new to all of this. While a generator is not ideal and there could be fuel issues, having a genny for two weeks buys me two more weeks of keeping my family better fed, supplied with water (well)and warm during long cold winters. My sincerest hope is that power outages are intermitent in which case a genny gets me through the down times.
LauraB - plan to use your generator for pumping water only. It will last for months that way. use other meathods for heating (hope you have a fireplace and lots of wood). Then have several backups for your water.
crfullmoon at 8:37- check out this link to ebay…
http://search.ebay.ca/singer-presser-foot_W0QQfcdZ2QQfclZ3QQfnuZ1QQsascsZ0
I hope you find a replacement presser foot soon!
crfullmoon at 8:37 www.singerco.com has customer service with parts for all their machines.
This would be wonderful for water! Makes water from air. http://www.watermakerindia.com/ http://www.epurez.com/?gclid=CKuAzqCDtIgCFQRDGgod4Gv2zg
Another link to low tech ways to make water. http://www.bagelhole.org/?page=350
mojo – at 23:26
How much water does an average dehumidifier produce in 24 hours?
We bought 50 lbs of Fresh Step cat litter today. This isn’t for a cat but for our compost toilet that DH is suppose to be building to put in the big bathroom. Also ordered some long underwear since we won’t have any heat of any kind except for 100 hr candles. DH didn’t want any as he thinks they are still the kind he wore during WWII. (grin) Ordered one of those 3 candle UCO Candelier lanterns and also bought at Walmart a Lamp, extra wicks,and lamp oil all for $13.00. Yeah, this prepping never stops. I just hope that we end up giving it all to charity. That would make me happy.
Oremus, I have no idea. Perhaps it depends on how much humidity one has where one lives?
LauraB at 19:59
My apologies for the delay in replying to your question. My view on generators comes from relying on them while running remote “destination” fishing lodges. One was in Labrador, Canada which was 100 miles by floatplane from the nearest town/road. The other was 350 miles northwest of Anchorage, Alaska. They require a lot of fuel when running for the approximately 8 hours per day minimum to keep a freezer frozen. If you are going to rely on them for lighting you may tend to run them more than you expect, especially in winter or cloudy days because most people are used to bright lighting. The smaller gas generators that I suspect most people are buying are not designed for long term extended use. They are cheaply made and prone to mechanical failure. The best generators in my opinion are diesel or propane generators built by the likes of Onan, John Deere etc. . . and are industrial grade. Sinking the thousands of dollars to buy even a cheap generator, fuel and spare parts to run for 4–8 hours per day for 6 months is not a worthwhile investment for my family. Better to buy some cheap rechargeable outdoor solar spotlights for “spot” indoor lighting, a handpump for the well, and design a food storage plan that does not require electricity for its long term viability. That being said, each person’s requirments can differ, and if a generator is needed to run equipment that is indispensable ie: life supporting, then it is needed.
I could use imput from people who have found an inexpensive reliable handpump. We have a 150′ drilled well with a static water pressure of 30′. I’m tempted to make a rope pump but the depth of the well is an issue.
Did an apple picking day yesterday,Went to several trees(okay 15) that were in the neighborhood with permission to pick them.Filled my cousins truck bed up and took them to the cider press a few miles away.We got 36 gallons of cider and put them into the deep freeze.Feels good to have that juice in storage as our water is only at about 2 months.
Also have already voted today and I hope others will also.
mj and MaMa -even for models about as old as the 1918 pandemic?
(I’ll take a look, thank you both.)
Got an interesting book today, originally published in 1910, Handy Farm Devices and How to Make Them, by Rolfe Cobleigh. Republished in 1996. There’s a fire alarm to let you know if your chimney has set your roof on fire-you hang a cord from rafters, so it’s in contact with the chimney. If there’s a fire, the cord will burn and drop a weight (suspended on a long wire) onto a battery powered doorbell on the mantel. There’s a temporary root cellar, cheese press, dumb waiter, mail trolley. Devices for the garden, the farmyard, orchard. Building an icehouse. Making concrete blocks. This is great! I need more raw materials now.
Is anybody using the Food Storage Planner software program?
I got mine in the mail a couple of days ago. Just sat down a bit ago to try to start entering stuff in it. It isn’t doing anything right. Not the number of people, not letting put expiration dates on things not on “their” list, when I edit “their” list to put stuff we actually eat (who can even find 12 oz “canned” ground beef?) it doesn’t let me do anything.
If anybody is using this program, how do you work it. I tried calling the 800 number… got a recording. Tried online but it keeps coming up dead page. uggggh!! Thanks, in advance!
EastTn @ nov-2 13:16 You can probably find the adaptors to fill from one gas canister to another at harbor freight .com
Sorry Goju and Homesteader - didn’t mean t sound testy! No, the plan is to run the genny at the barest level needed: eg. once a day to fill the water tank, bath tubs, etc. and cook dinner. The rest of the day we can get by without lights and non-cooked foods. We have lots of wood (and live in the woods so we can get more) and have lots of backup lighting, etc. I’m also planning on using all cold/frozen food first while there still is power. And if it’s really cold out we can store food out in the garage.
Of course, this is just a plan - it may all go to sh** down the road depending on how things go.
Homesteader - forgot to ask: what are you doing for a well pump? I’ve looked into several options but our well is quite deep and I haven’t found many workable options yet. I would feel so much more prepared if we had more water backups.
EnoughAlready – at 19:02
bump for your question about the Food Storage Planner software and to add: does anyone know what thread Dr Dave talked about: how many calories per pound per person we need to eat? I’m putting calories count into my inventory spreadsheet and would like to know how many days/months worth I have. Thanks.
silversage – at 21:28
It’s Dr Dave – at 15:18 & at 16:43 on FluPrepXXIII- http://www.fluwikie2.com/pmwiki.php?n=Forum.FluPrepXXIII
He referred to the BMR, or BMI Calculator:Harris Benedict Equation, which bases caloric needs on age, sex and activity level. Here is a link to one (they are easy to find on the internet - searching under Harris Benedict Equation or daily caloric needs age, sex, activity):
http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/harris-benedict-equation/
Here is how I “think” that Food Storage Planner works- I think you plug in your values (family- ages, number… except there are 6 of us and it only shows 4 after plugging in the stats… so I dunno)--- then, it gives you a “shopping list” and a “supermarket” (your preps). You build your supermarket from the programs calculated shopping list recommended for your families needs. There is suppose to be some way to change the values, but it doesn’t sound like it adjusts easily to “change.” If… at all. Well, SNAP…. this was not what I needed. I didn’t go with the excell spreadsheet… because my computer program doesn’t have excell, it has something “new and similar.” I didn’t want to bother with learning a new application. Lord, I didn’t know this program I bought would be such a mess. It was difficult getting… had to go through 2 different sources to get it. Now, this mess. I am not sure this is anything I want or can use. All of this and I will more than likely just figure out the “new” excell-like program… and do it myself. arrrrrggh!
Hopefully, somebody will have this program who has it figured out. I am gonna call the company tomorrow. I’ll post what I find out.
Okay… during writing that… I got some editing page… where I could have edited everything on this entire thread. I don’t think I was suppose to get that. Don’t know what I did… it just popped up. Then, when I hit the back button to finish the last paragraph (like I was trying to do when the editing stuff happened) when I hit post… some network error page came up. I thought I had lost it… came back here via another opened link… and here it is posted. Just thought I’d mention it because I read somebody else had “obtained editing” powers … unexpectedly. :0 (Man, I could have gone back and cleaned up or “redesigned” some comments I didn’t like a few roman numerals back! (I think) But… I took the high road. And… because I was pretty sure I wasn’t suppose to have that editing power.)
EnoughAlready – at 19:02
I am slowly putting things into mine…..first thing you (and I) need to do is to print food planner manual out. I had to play with it a LOT to get it to work right, but it will. I started in the Pets section because it was easier to count 2 cans or cups a day, than to work with the bigger things like tons of toilet paper. I finally got an email answer after a couple od weeks….it was easier reaching them by phone & I had to leave a message or two; I don’t know if these folks are students or what, but this is a lesser part of their overall business & the website is pretty helpfuk — as long as you can get to it…..try typing the address into google & click on the right link google gives you…..if it still doesn’t load, hit your refresh button. If that doesn’t work, leave a voice mail with them & tell them the site is malfunctioning. I’ll try too, tomorrow!
EnoughAlready – at 22:55
That’s exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!! In my one storage closet, that is stuffed and locked, I have 32.4 days worth of calories for my family of four. I’m sure it doesn’t have everything we need but I did try to put some of everything in there. That motivates me to finish the rest of my inventory!!
EnoughAlready – at 23:06
it happened before too, I told the mods what you said happened.
I’m-workin’-on-it
Did you call during normal working hours? I called about 4:30 pm their time. Got the machine.
So… can you put stuff you eat in it… or does it have to be from that list of theirs? I have everything I have (well, not the meds… or clothes (sheesh… I can’t believe that… that is so LOW on my priority list!)) writen in a notebook. I just wanted to be able to plug it into the program. It doesn’t look like it is going to allow me to put in food I’ve canned or dehydrated… or stuff I’ve bought that isn’t on their list. Am I wrong? It didn’t even get the number of people right on the pantry value page. AND… I tried to figure it out by entering salt… even that screwed up. SO… you’re saying it actually ends up working? I have printed off what my family needs over increments of time from the LDS website. This just doesn’t seem to be what I need… or else it is very un-user friendly.
$50 bucks down the drain…
silversage – at 23:13
glad it helped! Sounds like you are off and running!!!!!!! Are you going to plug this into a spreadsheet… where you can also calculate caloric needs up to inventory? Honestly, I think it is what I am going to end up doing. I’m still trying to get this mylar bag/bucket stuff & dehydrated food vacuum packed so I can put it up… plus keep inventory of all this stuff. I am so disappointed in this program I got… I just don’t have time to mess with it. Which is why I bought it.
Oremus – at 00:03.
How much water does an average dehumidifier produce in 24 hours?
Agree with mojo that it depends.
We got about a gallon of water from our dehumidifier, maximum. It was in a humid location (duh) and would have to be treated in order to be used for drinking.
Strangely, we need additional moisture in the main part of the house (humidifier) and less moisture in another (basement). DH has commented on using the water extracted from the humid areas to humidify the dry areas. :-(
gallon per day…
EnoughAlready – at 23:30 You’ll probably always get the answering machine, I did, (that’s why I think they’re busy with the main part of their business and this is a sideline) but they DO support the product & it DOES work.
You can add lines to the list and you can delete the lines they set up if you will never use them — for instance, we don’t have kids, but do have pets, so I added things to my pets category and can delete the entire baby supplies line so that I don’t have to have it clutter up the main list.
LauraB. . .
Overlooked this point on the previous post;
In a pandemic situation my biggest concern regarding a generator would be the noise attracting the “have nots” and looters to your door step. Personally I am going to some lengths to not attract attention.
The following link is for the deep well hand pump that seems a good compromise between quality and price.
http://www.survivalunlimited.com/handwaterpumpdeep.htm $279 includes foot valve
Most other deep well hand pumps are the best part of $1000. When looking at pumps I used the assumption of needing to use the pump for 2 years, so a “best quality high end” hand pump wasn’t necessary. Others may feel differently. We also have an old spring complete with old spring house 100 yards from the house, so we have a backup to our backup.
Caveat: I have not purchased this pump or have any experience with this company.
Did you set up your number of people by age so that you can track things needed by adults and for children?
Did you double-click on the green thingie to the left of each line item? When you double-click on that icon, you get a drop-down list of line items, for instance under canning supplies, they’ll list all sizes of jars, lids, juicer, grain mill, apple peeler, Kitchen Aid mixer, Fruit Pectin, etc. — they don’t list everything but they give you something in each sort of category to sort of remind you of what YOU have that you might want to add to the list. For instance, it lists Fruit Pectin which reminds me I need canning salt.
Okay question to all you preppers. I have started adding nuts to my prep list of food. I find that adding some pumpkin or sunflower seed to the veggies adds taste and I’m hoping other benefits. Anyone else putting up some of these seeds too? Any ideas on how to use them?
LauraB
Well depth is important, however you will also need to determine the well’s static level. That is how far up the well the water rises until the weight of the water column cancels out the pressure of the incoming water. Using my well as an example; it is 150′ deep but has a static level of 30′. That means the water rises to within 30′ of the surface. That tells me a simple pitcher pump won’t work since it can only draw water up about 20′. However, the more expensive deep well hand pumps can draw water up from depths considerably more than what I need, so I don’t need the biggest baddest pump on the block. I will put the pumping piston at a depth of 40′ to allow for draw down while pumping.
Hope that is clear. Glad to answer any more questions. Hope others will contribute their knowledge as well.
Shoot, forgot to explain how to measure static level.
Open the top of the well casing, drop down string with a piece of wood or other float device. When string stops paying out your float is resting on the water surface. Tie a knot in the string at the top of the well casing, pull string out, measure distance from float to knot, subtract distance from top of well casing to ground level and you have your well’s static level.
EnoughAlready – at 23:34
I started a simple excel spreadsheet for inventory and I’ve added a column for servings/ calories per container and total calories per storage. I’m hoping to but each storage location on a seperate sheet so I know what’s where and also have one big merged spreadsheet for shopping purposes. I think I can do that, although my abilities with excel are limited.
Fruit -canned pinapple 8 10–15 years 300 cals per can 2400
oh, and I have a column for expiration dates but I’ve only put down long term storage stuff so I don’t forget it. Most of the soups and spegetti o’s will rotate quickly in my house.
I also added non food items I’ve picked that I don’t want to forget like water test kits and water containers, filters… so DH can find them if I’m not around.
kimdem@9:46…..I bought 10 pumpkins after halloween for their seeds.Roasted and put in canning jars.We will use them for snacks and veggie add ins.
silversage – at 10:50 I’m hoping to but each storage location on a seperate sheet so I know what’s where and also have one big merged spreadsheet for shopping purposes.
Separate worksheets are possible but doing “automatic” combining of worksheets may be more trouble that it is worth. One thing you might consider is to add a column to your spreadsheet for “LOCATION.” That way, you can sort by location and then by item type (or whatever other field you want to use) and see your preps sorted that way. For shopping purposes, just sort by expiration date and/or item type and disregard the location field. MS Excel lets you easily sort by up to three fields at once (in any combination of ascending and descending order) so you should be able to get the lists you want from one always-merged spreadsheet.
Dennis in Colorado – at 11:52
Thanks, that’s a good way. I’ve only have the one sheet started now so I’ll just add more columns to it and save me loads of frustration later. :-)
They had a sale on DVD player. The man in back of me in line at the supermarket said it was a good buy. $29…. Anything I buy now has to be even more steeply discounted for me to feel justified in putting it aside. Will be concentrating on 100%juices, and cranberry sauces after Thanksgiving. Right now just getting to $300 to get my Free Turkey. Have always donated it to the food bank. Not this year. Will have it quartered and in the freezer. Time to donate to the food bank will be in the spring after flu season is over.Now that the weather is turning I’m feeling somewhat Ant—ish. Sitting in front of a fireplace is definatly cheery today.Stocked up on the wonderful blend of goldens that my local apple orchard grows. I have one before bedtime now every nite. Its part golden and part something else, but entirely supurb, best apples I’ve ever bought. Will buy more next week. Expensive, so I only cull out the very best in each hugh bin once a week.
Diana at 12:39, Who had a DVD player on sale for $29? Did I miss something? I’ll get one for that price too.
diana - I am with you on feeling ant-ish atm. My chest freezer is packed to the absolute limit. Even though it isn’t a large one, I think I have made very good use of space in it, and DH and I have discussed buying a full-size version.
His only issue with the purchase is that there are just two of us (plus 2 big dogs and a couple of birds!) so he worries things might not get turned over regularly. But since we only buy large amounts of things when they are on sale, I think it makes more sense to have a bigger freezer to take advantage of the sales in a better way. Like buying more than 25–50 pounds of whatever goes on sale, and having more room to store veggies and fruit from our garden instead of having to can or dehydrate so much.
In spite of the need to prep for food in the event of a pandemic or some other major disaster, I still prefer us to eat as much fresh produce as possible until such an event hits. It is healthier, not to mention better for our waistline. :)
And I would like to know where you got that DVD player too!
DVD Player at Shoprite. A N.J. supermarket. Ask to have them use the discount card if you don’t have one.
diana at 15:41, Well dog gone it. I am in Arkansas. I was thniking how well that 30 dollar DVD would fit into my budget. Oh well. Thanks for the info.
OK, I have one…picked eggs, pickled pigs feet, pickled sausages, etc. Down here in the south we have a choice in such things in almost any grocery store. I recently bought a large glass jar of pickled eggs but wasn’t so keen about the really strong vinegar flavor. I did a little research and discovered that if you soak them in enough water to cover the eggs along with a couple of pinches of baking soda dissolved in the water, that it greatly reduces the vinegar flavor and makes them more like boiled eggs. My good friend used to work in a bar, where they kept pickled eggs for months at a time in their jars, unrefrigerated after opening. I did buy a pickling book and it says that at some point they will start to disintegrate, (fall apart) but I’m sure I will use all of mine before that happens. I now plan on buying additional jars. What a great source of protein and I must admit, better than powdered eggs. :) Not to mention egg salad, deviled eggs, etc.
Or you could add beet juice and that could neutralize the strong vinegar flavor. I’ve been waiting for a sale on pickled pigs knuckles. Thanks for the reminder.
I would also highly recommend the “Complete Meals” in a box by Betty Crocker and others. They can be prepared stovetop method, come with the “meat” and are basically an add water only meal. The box of Stoganoff has 1000 calories and serves 5. With additional ingredients I would say that they are really good. :) Price at Walmart is $2.50- slightly over $3.00, depending upon variety. The Chicken Alfredo, (also slightly more calories), isn’t bad either and I have also bought the “lasagna” one, although I haven’t tried it. At about $3 a meal, I figure this is a great stock item. IMO :) I plan on buying about 15 or so, the next time I am in town. Also would be a great item to share with others if the need should arise.
Thank you so much homesteader. Looks like DH has a project this weekend - get it done beofre he has to freeze his a$$ out there! My only fear - could we “mess up” well by mucking with the cap?
Snowhound: how do you cook those meals? Microwave? It does sound helpful, but I wonder how you’d cook it with no power?
LauraB—the easiest is stovetop method…you could cook it over wood, charcoal briquets, or on a woodstove. Whatever you have that is capable of cooking.
On other vein..I bought an oven (in the campning section for about $30) that can be used on top of wood burning surface (Or propane, etc), to bake items. The only problem I found was finding baking surfaces small enough to fit inside its rather small interior. I have bought multiple silicone baking containers that will fit inside the interior and can handle 500F. Small loaves of bread, large muffins, etc., my favorite beinga a 2.5″x 4″ rectangular silicone pan. (they are also totally non-stick) I will be able to cook cookies, breads, cakes, etc. I am not in the position to buy a wood cookstove at the moment and this is the best that I could come up with for baked items. Anyone else have one of these?
LauraB:
Just need to take care removing the cap that crud and parts don’t fall into the depths. There are various kinds, but a standard one is a metal/rubber/metal contraption. Bolts tighten the pieces and push the rubber out so it fits tightly. The danger is overloosening the bolts and having the underside metal pieces fall away. … :(
A little care and judicious prying as the bolts are loosened a bit at a time and all should be fine.
I’m-workin’-on-it – at 09:35
canning supplies? I don’t have anything that has that on it. There is something for an ax. ~rolling eyes~ Yeah, I put in ages and all. I didn’t get to call them today because I just didn’t have time. This thing is a piece of crap. Mine came with a book. But, I can’t get it to function like it is suppose to. I’m really disappointed, I was really looking forward to using this program. It has some neat possibilities… I just can’t get it to work. It would have been worth the money not to have to plug all those equations, etc, into the spreadsheet.
Snowhound1 – at 18:09
We bought one of those ovens, and we tried it out with disappointing results. It tends to burn the bottom of whatever you’re cooking before it cooks the middle and top. Someone told us that putting a metal trivet between the flame and the oven would help solve the problem, but I can’t find a metal trivet anywhere. I did see some but they were coated with paint, and that can’t be good.
We ordered a solar oven in case we can’t get the camping oven to work properly. Apparently nothing burns in a solar oven. If it’s a cloudy day, however, we’re stuck with the Coleman oven.
Does anyone have any ideas on how to get the heat to distribute more evenly in a Coleman oven?
Meserole in FL, tag sales, flea markets, yard sales, someone downsizing their kitchen - I bet there are a lot of unused wire trivets sitting around, somewhere… (hm, just glanced at a google search page and saw “or use an inverted pie tin” wonder what that would do? -besides blacken the pie tin, might that spread the heat better?)
Meserole in FL – at 07:14
I have heard that placing unglazed tile in the camping oven helps with the distribution of heat.
Thank you for the baking question and comments, last month when the storm hit and we were without power for a week, I really missed baking things. I had a propane stove, but wanted to bake up some biscuits (using bisquick of course!) to go with the stew, now I have an idea of what to get!
A propane grill can also be used as an oven. Here again, you need something to distribute the heat or you will burn the bottom of what you are baking before it is done. I used flat fire brick that I had left over from lining my woodstove.
Snowhound1 – at 18:09
I have a small folding camp stove that I’ve used quite a good bit with my Coleman stove. I’ve got a couple of square aluminum pans that I use just for this oven.
I agree it is smaller than a normal oven, but I’ve thought about that and consider it not necessarily a bad thing for two main reasons.
1. It won’t take as much fuel to heat the smaller oven. More fuel efficiency means my propane will last longer.
2. I’ll be more careful in my portion control. More portion control will mean that a) our preps should last longer and b) it will be more realistic and healthy to have a “normal” portion size than a “stress-driven” portion size.
But I admit, that is just my take on the oven. I used it with great success the summer we went out to Glacier, Yellowstone, and Grand Teton national parks for the summer. It was a great and welcome addition to our equipment.
EnoughAlready, when I open my Food Storage Planner, it opens to a screen where I have a “category list” on the left and a grey area on the right that has a round circle that will become my ‘pie graph’ when I start adding things into the system.
You don’t HAVE to start there.
In the version of the software I have, I named my first pantry “Food Storage Pantry 1″. If I click on the word File in the toolbar on ANY page that opens first, I get a dropdown box that has places to click for New stuff, and just before the exit button at the bottom of that drop-down I see my saved file’s name. I click on it and it takes me to that page with the circle.
The list on the left has icons beside the category names and starts with 72 hour kit, then Automotive, then Baking, then Canning Equipment, Clothing, Condiment, Containers, Dairy & Egg, etc. etc.
If I click on any one of them I get a sub-list, for instance, the 72 hour kit click gets me a list of AM/FM radio, Ax/hatchet, Batteries — AA, Batteries—C, Body Soap, Can Opener, Canned Food, Change of Clothes, Chapstick, etc.
You’ll notice it only shows batteries AA and C — that’s so you’ll know to add a line for AAA and D on your own. The software is designed for you to do your own modifications so that you can have lines for things you actually have and so you can delete what you don’t want.
You can also chage the bulk amount. If you don’t store a ton of sugar you can change it to a pound if you want to.
You can sort by item (alpha) or by Priority of importance. They have preset certain grocery carts by color to be Must have’s, then others with less priority but you can change something that they list as a luxury to your number one priority if you want it to be.
In other words, the software IS very versatile & mine works just fine. Perhaps you should un-install and then re-install it.
At any rate, whenever you call them, expect to leave a message. In your message I’d suggest you give them a selection of times when they could reach you at home — like Friday morning, or Monday afternoon after 3pm or something like that — give them a choice if you expect to be able to talk to them directly. Also give them your email address in your message too, just for good measure.
When I spoke to them, they were wonderfully helpful, but it took a few days to get to them — I didn’t ask why.
The software is well worth the money but because it is so ‘adaptable’ you do have to spend some time learning how it works!
Also, I have some things set up as having one selection like a radio would be for “Goal Period” (not for One Week or any of the other selections besides Goal Period), and it would be for “One per Pantry” (not One per Person or anything else in those drop-down lists. When you change those selections it changes the totals required and the totals on hand and left to purchase.
I don’t think newer versions of the software would be much different than mine so maybe something I’ve mentioned will help you navigate through your version.
Good luck, don’t abandon it yet!
well if you have the money and a supply of propane, they make other “ovens” for use in the backcountry…Examples from Cabelas.com
This one would be awesome if you could hook it up to a large propane tank: http://tinyurl.com/ycwzpo
smaller propane stove: http://tinyurl.com/y97zhs
last one should read smaller propane oven…
MissBliss – at 09:46, if you don’t have access to an oven and you want bread you could try making bannock. It’s basically a very dense bread, my family loves it! Here’s the recipe:
3 cups flour
6 level tsp. baking powder
3 tsp. sugar
3 tbsp. lard (you can substitute oil or shortening, works fine)
1/4 tsp.salt
Put dry ingredients in a bowl. Add lard, rub mixture to a fine powder using clean hands. Blend in enough water to make a soft sticky dough. Grease lightly your skillet or baking sheet, depending on your chosen method of cooking.
1.)If using a skillet, place dough in skillet over med-high heat, cover skillet with a lid if desired(cooks a little faster and more evenly on top that way). Cook approx 10–15 min, til bottom is golden brown.
2.)If using an oven, place dough on your baking sheet and bake in a 450 degree oven 10–15 minutes or til golden brown.
I prefer to bake it at home but cook alot of it in a cast iron skillet when we’re camping. Lots of great variations possible- apples/cinnamon/brown sugar/, garlic/rosemary/cheese, etc.
Mama is right. There are plenty of “fry breads” that you can make. For instance, I grew up on “corn cakes” … similar to a pancake only made out of a cornmeal mixture. They can be used for both sweet and savory purposes.
Tortillas are another type of non-oven bread … and there are a bunch of different flavored tortillas you can make. I put several in one of the recipe threads.
Bannock is another “fry” bread that you can make in various flavors.
I prefer savory breads except for breakfast when a sweet one is kind of nice to have on occasion. And to be honest, that kind of cooking is easier for me than a yeast or sourdough bread which requires an oven.
You can make dumplings on top of stews or soups. I’ve made drop biscuits in a cast-iron skillet, with a lid. And spaetzle, an egg-drop sort of noodle that you form by pushing the dough through the holes in a flat grater. I’ve experimented with baking in my pressure cooker, but my batter separated into layers. It was edible, though really chewy on the bottom layer. (I used a combination of flours/starches, because I can’t eat wheat, so others may have better luck.)
Am waiting to hear from Bloomingdales on a De Longhi oven. They had so many people at their Sat. Sale that everything was sold out, so there is a waiting list. My old micro wave is making very peculiar rattling noises, so I will try a convection/toaster oven. Bought a number of 70% cocoa from Lindts on sale. I don’t like dark chocolate which is good for you, but I melt some in my coffee. If you buy Italian Panetones they last for months. A sweet bread with citron and sultanas. They don’t go stale for many months. I still have one from Easter with chocolate in it, will try it tomorrow. A really lovely frangrance when you open the packaging while you finish it off. Got some squishy soft grey and white dogs from Clearwater Creek for xmas gifts. I might buy the biggest one as a gift for myself, sort of a muff to keep hands warm while sleeping. Everyone is going ga ga over it. What is it about squishy soft stuffed animals? First have to find another discount coupon in a magazine.
I baked in my coleman stove on top of my barbecue. I centered the stove (2 hotspots; I removed the grill; I have 1/2 bricks above flame (in my case natural gas) and by removing the grills I was able to close the barbecue lid. It worked fine except as pointed out its small. Now I could probably baked with the coleman stove but this way heated up the oven in a few minutes. To heat the entire area to 350 or 375 would take a lot longer. I baked muffins but if I was baking bread I would likely place the oven on the low to medium setting and turn up the other burner to high to keep temperature up.
I got cast iron trivets where I bought my Lodge cast iron pots and pans. In fact I had forgotten I had them until I was looking for something else. Dutch oven baking requires trivets to keep things from burning. I think you could use many other things to keep the bottom from burning eg. those barbecue bricks. Just make sure you have a large enough dutch oven that you can put pans inside.
I’m-workin’-on-it – at 10:02
I don’t have the 72 hour kit, Canning, or containers sections. And there isn’t anyplace that has batteries [among other things you mentioned.] I have un-installed and re-installed it 3 times. Odd I don’t have the same stuff. I know I ordered from one place that said it was on backorder for 2–3 months. So, I ordered from the company… which took several weeks. It has been a big fat mess. Just my luck! I get the gimped up one… and I was looking so forward to utilizing it.
Thanks for input, I just don’t know why mine is so different from yours. When I add stuff… it just goes to auto 100%. There’s a spot for dehydrated carrots, but not canned carrots. Fruit section was odd, and only drink section was fruit drink (dehydrated.)
<anonymous – at 18:25 to LauraB: Just need to take care removing the cap that crud and parts don’t fall into the depths. There are various kinds, but a standard one is a metal/rubber/metal contraption. Bolts tighten the pieces and push the rubber out so it fits tightly. The danger is overloosening the bolts and having the underside metal pieces fall away. … :(
A little care and judicious prying as the bolts are loosened a bit at a time and all should be fine.]
>>We lost use of a well one time when my husband dropped a big wrench down the casing. He never could get it out again. He said he should have tied a rope to the end of the wrench while he was using it. We ended up having to go on a lousy community water system. Just thought I’d pass on the warning.
EnoughAlready – at 20:16 I believe mine is the 5.0 version — what’s yours?
I’m not really concerned about you not having the line items I have, since you can enter whatever you want in yours, what I’m concerned about is why it’s not clear how to enter an amount that won’t show 100%.
What does your book say about the quantity field??
Thanks to everyone for the hints on trivets and preventing burned food in the Coleman oven. I was really worried that we wouldn’t be able to make it work, but now, I’m hopeful!
Can someone tell me where to get this software everyone is talking about?
I bought a coleman oven this summer and we tried it outside over a wood fire. We had it set about an inch above the fire, and it never got more than 300 degrees. But it baked pizza and bread wonderfully, even if it did take a bit longer. Next time I’m gonna try it over the propane stove. I’m very glad I bought it.
or
http://www.revelar.com/fsp.html
Just $39.95. $29.95 If you order within 3 days of downloading the demo. Call 800–669–5191 to order your copy.
Thanks snowhound, anon and bgw. DH is going to futz around with it this weekend.
Got a great coupon in the mail yesteray - 20% my total purchase at Linens and things (2 days only). I got lots of things I’ve been wanting: new humidifiers, a French Press for coffee, another aerobed, shelf organizers for preps, more sheets (plus they were on sale too :)) and a few kitchen gadgets. The coupon knocked $85 off the bill.
I don’t know if I passed this idea along. I mentioned earlier that I put my Coleman Oven inside my barbecue with the lid of the barbecue fully closed; got temperature up to almost 500 in minutes. Also I bought a portable barbecue (on sale for $20.) and I put it in my fireplace over natural gas heated logs. I also baked muffins & this experiment didn’t go as well. It didn’t get hot enough so now what I will do is remove the logs (open fireplace) and place portable barbecue on a rack above the gas so its closer to the flame. As well I will close slightly the flue (sp?) which is what I do when I want to increase heat disbursed. I do open a window slightly when I do this. Reason I didn’t use Coleman Oven in fireplace was I think it’s too tall to fit in but I’ll check next time. I also want to try using my dutch oven in both the barbecue and fireplace. We can quickly convert our fireplace back to wood if need be. I have an outdoor oven (wood/charcoal) but couldn’t get it hot enough either. I tried this half a dozen times with different wood/hardwood charcoal/briquettes/ceramic briquettes. This seems to be a big problem when baking. I think I’ll try using it in a more control environment but it has to have good ventilation. I think practicing baking now will save many failed meals and experiments later.
I got several big bargains at Albertson’s today. They had Stovetop Stuffing on a 10/$10 sale. The Stovetop Stuffing ended up being even cheaper because they also had manufacturers coupons that let you buy 3 and get one free, so 4 boxes ended up costing only $3.00. I bought a bunch of them. They had Hormel fresh pork shoulder roast for $1.00 a pound, too. I bought five big roasts to can.
Prepping Gal – at 18:26
Thanks so much for the info on your experimentation. Many of us are really cramped for time, and the efforts of others help us so much in evolving our ‘strategies’.
I know we’ve had to have mentioned this on the last year that I’ve been on the wiki … but it is probably worth mentioning again.
Once upon a time it was one of those food fads to cook in terracotta dishes. You soaked them and then used them in a fire or oven. I cooked lots of casseroles this way befor I droped the blasted thing and it shattered. <sigh> Its been years but I was told you could bake some beautiful bread this way as well.
And I know I’ve heard of bread being baked in unglazed terracotta flower pots. It might be worth an experiment or two for those inclined.
Just for the heck of it I looked up Cooking in Clay Pots and the article in the link gives a lot of good hints as well as practical instructions.
Kathy in FL – at 19:53
Funny you mention it - I was pricing them this morning in a recent catalog. I also thought that may solve certain problems. Did you have good experiences with it (before the blasted thing shattered)?
Wolf – at 19:58
It was fantastic with meat and veggies. Worked better than any roasting pan I’ve ever had. I’m serious. Didn’t stick either as long as you soaked it really good before using it.
On another thread we were talking about wild game. I know some wild game can be tough, so the clay pot method would probably be one of the better choices for cooking wild game. It is also killer on fish. I didn’t do the cooking for that experiment, but my friend shared the leftovers and they were incredible … with wild rice no less.
I’ve got a little time on my hands this evening so I think one of the things I will do is research baking bread in a clay pot. And I’ll have to keep my eyes open for another clay pot roasting pan. I see the garlic roaster all the time … but not the larger roaster.
check out differnt types of “pizza stones” to put inside the camping oven, maybe some of them is small enough.. Other stone tiles shold also work fine, You can cut one square with a “angle cutter” with a diamant blade, or maybe just buy a thin stone from some worksmen or gardening centers etc. A stone will level the heath better than the aluminum. I dont know this ovens well, but maybe even placing small creeks stones in the bottom will help.
Kathy in FL – at 20:07
The item I was looking at was in my Zaccardi’s catalog (zaccardis.com). It’s called a Romertopf, holds up to 14 lbs (of anything, it seems:) and it runs about $50. There’s also a book offered: “The Complete Guide to Claypot Cooking” for $16 - “recipes for chicken, meats, fish, soups, breads and even desserts”.
Since you had such a good experience, I’m putting this on my ‘list’. Thanks!
A while back some folks had talked about “TRUE LEMON” and “TRUE LIME” products. I requsted the free samples from the website (which haven’t come yet) but I got an email that they’ve expanded their retail sites adding:
Safeway, Vons, Meijer, Fred Meyer and Piggly Wiggly Now Carrying True Lemon and True Lime
So off to Dominicks I went(part of safeway), and sure enough it’s in the spice isle near the splenda. Looks neat, haven’t used it yet. Expiration is about two years although it should go longer if kept cool and dry. You can probably fit three boxes of product into one because the packets are really small. Thanks to all, for the tip!
Today I bought 20 gallons of kerosene ($3.32/gal from local distributor) and cleaned out my garage. Took the snow blower to Ace for service and it’s toast, so hubby will be shoveling this winter. While I was there I bought a small LED flashlight that uses 3 AAA batteries for $8. They had 3 of these small sizes. Perfect for my car and a bug-out bag. Got one for hubby for x-mas too.
I also saw 9V lithium batteries that claimed to last for 10 years. They are supposed to be fore smoke detectors and cost about $8 each. Has anybody here tried them? I wonder if they make other sizes.
A task that I’ve been putting off is seasoning some new cast iron cookware that I bought early in the summer. Good thing I haven’t needed it before now or I would be SOL. The pieces aren’t big, but they will be dead useful if I need to do more than a little cooking out of doors.
Big Lots has a DVD for $25 and has a battery tv with car adapter for $18.
Thanks so much for the reminder about clay pots. I got the Romertopf roaster for a wedding present many years ago and I used for a few years and then kind of forgot about it. I lost the cookbook that went with it so I downloaded the link and I’ll give it a try again. I’ve got the garlic roaster as well, never used it.
I’m-workin’-on-it – at 22:01
Okay… I figured out that by marking survival, standard and luxury… I get all that stuff. I had created “new items” under survival. I guess that’s why it was automatic 100%. I have the 5, same as yours. I wondered why all I was getting was an ax… it was because I was in survival mode. Which I looked at as a good thing… not as the most dismal basics.
Sorry to be taking so much time on this. But, should anybody else get this program I hope it saves them some time and trouble. It has taken me three days to figure out: it has 3 modes. The survival mode is the most basic… & it is comforting to know where you are at on that level. However, by clicking all 3 levels you can enter more stuff… like BBQ sauce, etc. And… a much larger range of things like drinks, toliet paper, rubbing alcohol, etc. It would have saved me a whole lot of time knowing this… because now I have to go back and redo most everything.
The nutritional analysis is a bit lacking, but they tell you that… in the book. It is apparently something “new”… that they are working on. Presently, you have to enter everything yourself. I am not sure how that works… yet. Fortunately, free updates are part of the “purchase package.”
The program automatically updates the expiration date from the date of entry… unless (I guess) you enter the date you purchased it… or maybe you can change the expiration date. Again, I haven’t figured that out.
IWOI--- when you add “new items” or even “new aisles” … assuming under luxury… it doesn’t go into that 100% thing for you? I haven’t done that yet since discovering that was a big part of my “inventory” problem. It will be awhile before I get to adding “new”… I’ve got to redo so much!
I think I may like this program afterall. I’m still a bit frustrated with it, but figuring out clicking on the 3 levels sure made a difference! After you mentioned it, I got to clicking around on “everything.” Initially, I was just hoping to be able to enter my data in and get “my” results. It is unique that it allows various fields.
AND… I had a lid on a 5 gallon bucket literally “blow off” today. ooops. Busted the center clean off the rim! Scared the bejeebies out of me! (Dry ice bomb!)
KimT… if you are reading this… I finally used my pump-n-seal today! It is just too cool… & easy! I used canning jars. It is so much easier than any other method I have used! Thanks for the heads up!
I was cutting back on my credit cards, and credit card purchases, using cash only to keep myself as thrifty as possible. Today I reactivated a card I haven’t used in a year, just to have that cushion available if I want to splurge on anything related to Pandemic, as I have been very chary of buying that which will end up sent out to rummage sales. I think this card will be my pandemic card, it will let me keep a running tab on anything I get from this moment on. I’ve been holding back as I think we do have time. Will be going over the things I printed out on supplies. Already bought a small led light, a gardening tool and gloves from the enviormental center at 60% off. I never will prepare to the extent that many here do. Birds are returning to my house after more than two years . I have a bird bath at my door. I want to welcome them and make them comfortable for the winter. They had a rough couple of years around this area. I have read that they are cutting down on culling the deer in the Great Swamp as they feel they are more managable now. Since this came on my radar I never pass a fresh road kill carcass that I don’t think, someday this could feed someone besides the turkey buzzards.Some of you might buy some deer corn to entice them close, if indeed it ever comes to needing game to feed your families.
I was just at the local Walmart Supercenter. They had cases of Campbells Chunky Chicken Noodle soup and Clam Chowder piled high in the center aisle. The price was “rolled back” to $1.38 per can which is a decent “sale” price around here lately. The other flavors of Chunky Soup were also now $1.38 but only present in their regular quantities on the shelves.
I couldn’t resist picking some up. Also got a couple of big cans of the powered Gatorade.
Today my dear sweet 12yo daughter and I worked hard! We assembled 3 large shelving units I had picked up at Walmart (all under $100) and squeezed them into the utility room. Then dragged out all the food stashed around the house, sorted it, and are in the process of shelving it. 1/3 of the new space is already taken up by beans, rice, flour, and some TVP. But boy, does it look nice. I also covered the window back there with foil to spoil the view for any curious folk. And so far the only casualty of this busy day was a dropped jar of jam. Herman, the cat had to check out the new shelves but is back in his usual spot, curled up on the pillows on the couch. DD and I are both tired, but will get back to it tomorrow.
I got my clay roaster at a garage sale for $2.00. They appear occasionally so you might look around there.
I haven’t posted here in a while, but check frequently. I sure have missed you guys and think of you often. I’ve taken one of the other bedrooms (have four, no kids) and made it a pantry/guest room. I now have two sets of restaurant quality shelves from Sam’s ($75 each) that hold a boatload of stuff. They line two walls and I still have room for a double bed, a small chest, and a curio cabinet. The closet is full of paper products, canned goods, soda, baking stuff, spices, etc.. I’ve got the canner, dog, cat, and bird food for three months, three water barrels, a vegtable garden, a generator (short term use, I know), three back-ups for cooking, am working on the water filtration issue now. I am waiting for ten new food grade buckets to store the flower and dry foods in.
My father and step mother are prepping now and are trying to motivate her three adult children. Both just had a bout of the flu this week and it was a real eye opener. I had abdominal surgery two weeks ago and my husband got fired for taking off two days for it. What a bunch of b*******! Better news, he was offered a job two days later that pays $15,000 more a year! Woo Hoo! I’m not the primary bread winner anymore! This will help us in more than the obvious ways. Teaching is a great vocation, but doesn’t pay a lot.
DH is disabled. Burned in scalding water on his second day of kindergarten. His amputations on his left “foot” are causing problems and he doesn’t want the remaining apendage amputated. He’s in his wheelchair a lot now. When my Dad and stepmom got the flu it got me thinking. I’m screwed if I get sick. No matter how much stuff I have the one person I have to take care of me probably won’t be able to do it. I’ve been fighting so many battles that I didn’t think about it realistically. I refuse to go down this path tonight because I’m tired and don’t want to get depressed. I’ll start thinking about work arounds tomorrow. There’s always a way around, right?
Orlandopreppie – at 23:56. Yes, there usually is a way around. For me, it sometimes means chipping away at the problem. Solving pieces of it so that it’s not a single huge issue anymore. Humans are surprisingly reslient when we need to be. Best wishes to you both.
lohrewok – at 21:01 Isn’t it a GREAT feeling to get that stuff iff the floor and organized?? Take pics, put ‘em on photobucket & go post the photobucket link on the Pics of Preps thread!!!
Same for you Orlandopreppie – at 23:56 — I hope you’re recovering weell now from your surgery! That’s a lot of work you’ve put into your preps so far and you have good reason to be proud of your efforts. Your DH has had a boatload of problems all his life hasn’t he? What a challenging life. You’re lucky to have each other to lean on. Yep, you’ve looked at a scary situation if everyone gets sick, including you. But you’re “right on” that there are ways around it to make certain that you can survive the situation.
Right off the top of my head I’d suggest a few little things to put in place in case sickness sneaks up on you:
I’d write on my pill bottles a code for how often to take them in large numbers with a magic marker — like if that teeny print on the bottle says you are supposed to take no more than 4 in an 8 hour time frame, then that means you could take 2 every 4 hours and the code could be “2/4″ or since you are to not take MORE THAN 4 in 8 hours you could write “4/8Max”. Either way that keeps you from trying to read the small print when you’re sick, especially if the power is out.
Another thing I’d do is make you some wall charts of Care Tips or whatever you’d want to call it — I’d use one-liners to remind yourself of things to do and to NOT do when you have the flu — make out a short routine so that every time you go to the bathroom, you see a reminder to drink 8oz of water to keep rehydrated or something like that. Put a larger chart over your bed or next to your bed — maybe in a picture frame and sitting on your nightstand or something — anything so that you and whoever else is caring for you can see it. Put things like remembering to keep you slightly propped up so that your lungs don’t fill with fluid and cause pneumonia, and stuff like that.
I’d make certain you have emergency phone names and numbers on a big card in your purse in case you get sick away from home, & carry a list of your meds in case you find yourself at a hospital or clinic without your family for some reason.
One of the BEST ideas I keep hearing repeated is how necessary having a flu box by the bed has been for those who had one, or how nice it would have been for those who got sick without having one. A box with simple no-prepare foods, puddings to help with medicine-taking, Gaterade, aspirin, drinking cups & pitcher or whatever you feel you need in yours along with a pill-keeper for your daily medicines to make it easier to have them on hand and take them when you’re supposed to; anything to help you make each movement you absolutely have to make as easy as possible on yourself.
I’m sure others have ideas to help you with flu box contents and ways that you can ‘train’ your family to care for each other - there will be needs your husband will have that maybe only you really know how to address and maybe you’d be wise to address his needs as well. Even with his challenges, he’s found ways all his life to excel in many things, one of them in being able to take care of you so far! I know he’ll want to continue to do that, so the more you can help him figure out how to do that now, the better he’ll feel about himself and the more confident he’ll be in caring for you should you get really really sick.
I like your attitude — things usually DO look more positive in sunlight than in moonlight, everything except our wrinkles! :-)
I’m-workin’-on-it – at 00:33
things usually DO look more positive in sunlight than in moonlight, everything except our wrinkles! :-)
I value my wrinkles above many other things. Think it was EASY to grow them??? Every wrinkle and silver hair I have took countless hours of living to cultivate, and I wouldn’t give any of it back to be young and clueless again (speaking strictly for myself, not about young folks in general — have been impressed with what I’ve often seen so far, here and elsewhere).
blackbird – at 01:43 (and all)
In youth I was a blonde. I now have the distinction of the bronze, silver and gold :)
For some time, I’ve noticed that the demographics of this site seem to trend towards 40–60 age range. I’ve often wondered why that is; have considered the fact that young people generally feel indestructible, perhaps we oldsters have invested more in out lifetimes and feel we have more to lose - not materially, but in our children (and grandchildren). Also, as Medical Maven pointed out, age confers (on most of us at least) experience of some tragedies - we KNOW our lives can be turned inside out in a moment, so are more willing to acknowledge and prepare.
Today’s flu-prep (for me) is managing the ‘adjustment reaction’ to the latest findings regarding genetic changes in the receptor binding domain. I feel (deeply) the loss of the scientists among us; it seems that these changes may be important milestones in the progression of this disease from animal to human. Yet I’m not seeing the level of discussion I’ve come to be accustomed to regarding this.
While I agree that the nature and semantics of the various State Department notices should evoke some level of discussion and investigation, I find myself less concerned with the verbiage and more concerned with the possible reasons for the seeming dissonance.
On a lighter note, I’ve kept worm bins for years and can assure you they’re clean, convenient and well worth the initial investment. Primo fertilizer.
I’m-workin-on-it @ 00:33
Not being a computer savvy type, the photobucket is beyond my skills, but I will get DS to do it for me. I started prepping in May, when I found this site, and figure I have about 4–6 months worth. LOL I counted 200lbs of flour,not including the wheat. Went on a flour rampage when I started thinking about a loaf of bread per day for my family. If next summer arrives with it not being used, the local food banks will get a big donation.
Orlandopreppie @ 23:56 There is indeed always a way around the obstacles. My husband is a hospice patient and I have times when it all just smacks me in the face. He is my anchor and everyday, a tiny part of the wonderful man he is slips away. Mostly, I just prep for my kids and am thankful we have today together. So my best to you and your DH. Sounds like you both are fighters. You’ll be fine.
Wolf @ 8:29 I will try to find the genetic changes you are referring to. If you read this, can you point to the info?
lohrewok – at 08:56
Many scientists have argued against Niman’s recombination theories. However, few, if any, deny his wholeheartedly open approach to evaluation of sequence data. recombinomics.com has trees, best buddies, kissin’ cousins etc. all free for the looksee. While the conclusions may be arguable, the data is there for interpretation. The latest groupings have me stone cold scared.
Commentary
Multiple H5N1 Receptor Binding Domain Changes Cause Concern Recombinomics Commentary November 10, 2006
Chen said that in 2005 and 2006, the lab had isolated some viruses in waterfowl in southern China which was reported to the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) and the World Organization for Animal Health (OIE).
“These viruses all remain steady in gene type and there is no marked change in their biological characteristics,” she said.
Chen said there was only one new variant of the virus, which was isolated to north China’s Shanxi Province and the Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region at the beginning of this year and has been reported to the FAO and OIE.
The above comments were in response to the recent PNAS paper describing the spread of the Fujian strain of H5N1 throughout southern China and into Laos, Malaysia, and Thailand. The response from the Harbin facility in China suggested that there had been little change of H5N1 in southern China since 2004 and the PNAS study was “unscientific” because the immunization status of the H5N1 positive birds was not reported.
However, officials at The WHO requested samples from northern China, because there were 404 full or partial HA sequences in the paper, and the new sequences not only showed that the Fujian strain was becoming dominant, but also showed that there were changes in the receptor binding domain of H5.
The receptor binding domain has been closely monitored because H5N1 can grow to high levels in humans and has generated an alarmingly high case fatality rate. Changes in the receptor binding domain can have a dramatic effect of the ease of transmission to humans and between humans, and changes in the transmission rate, in the absence in changes in the fatality rate, would lead to a global pandemic that would likely dwarf the devastating pandemic of 1918, which was an H1N1 stain formed via recombination between human and swine H1N1.
An easily transmitted H5N1 could be catastrophic because it represents a non-human serotype and has many genetic changes associated with a high lethality rate in chickens and mammals, including humans.
An earlier survey of H5N1 isolates identified a change in the receptor binding domain, S227N, which was associated with an increased affinity for human receptors found in the upper respiratory tract, and a decrease in affinity for avian receptors. A warning was issued on October 22, 2005 because the Qinghai strain of H5N1 was migrating into the Middle East and donor sequences for the formation of S227N were present in H9N2, which was endemic to the region.
In January, 2006, the first confirmed human H5N1 fatalities involving the H5N1 Qinghai strain were reported in Turkey, and H5N1 isolated from the index case had S227N, who was part of a large cluster To date there have been four human sequences from Turkey that have been made public, and two have the S227N change. Human cases were subsequently confirmed in Iraq, Azerbaijan, Egypt, and Djibouti. Recently, sequences from the Egyptian cases were released, and S227N was also detected in one of the eight sequences, indicating the change was present over a wide geographical region.
The sequences released in last weeks PNAS paper included five isolates from Shantou with a number of changes in and around the receptor binding domain. Position 227 was changed, but was changed to an R instead of an S. In addition to S227N, there were changes at position 222 (K222R) and 223 (V223I). The isolates also had a change at position 214 (V214M). The clustering of these changes suggested that they were due to recombination, and sequences with K222R or V223I had been reported previously in isolates from northern China and Japan, so the association of both changes in the five Shantou isolates strongly indicated that the sequences had merged via recombination.
Today, sequences from an isolate from Shanxi were released. As indicated in the quote above, this isolate was distinct from the Fujian or Shantou strains described above. In addition to a novel HA cleavage site, REGRRKKR, the isolate also had a number of changes in the receptor binding domain, A188E, A189T, T192I, L194I, R220K, K222E. Moreover, two related sequences from Hunan had two of the changes found in the Shanxi isolate, T192I and L194I as well as two more changes, D187N and A189E.
These changes highlight the need for a current database and increase concerns of additional changes via recombination.
Thus, although these are small changes, they can have profound affects of the transmissibility of the H5N1. Moreover, small changes can lead to false negatives in PCR tests because of mis-matched primers.
Therefore both groups should release full sequences of all eight gene segments and complete sequences on samples which have only been partially sequenced.
Blackbird, I’m Working On It, and lohrewok…thank you so much for the encouragement. I usually don’t need it but every now and then I need someone to lean on, if only for a second. The flu boxes are the next thing on my list to assemble. I’ve read that baby food is a good thing to have in them too. The charts idea is excellent and so are the meds charts. I think getting a bedside potty will be better for illness than the five gallon bucket as the potty has handles and may make it easier to move to. I keep hearing how bad this flu is, how immobilized the patients become. I wonder if using the OTC stuff we have available here will lessen the impact of the flu.
DH is also amputee on right leg, and has no fingers save opposible thumbs built by Shriners Burn Hospital in Boston. (Thank God for Shriners! They saved his life) He is a fighter, and I am so proud of him. In addition to working full time he goes to school. He graduates with his Associates in December and then he’ll continue on to get a Bachelors in Science Education. We do lean on each other, as I’ve had a bunch of surgeries for a rare Neurological thing and he has skin grafts. He’s also totally onboard with this preparation. He designed a solar powered watering pump for one of our raised beds.I think I will pre-assemble pill holders for each of us to make medicating better, and make the charts to be laminated at school.
Lohewok, I’ve worked with Hospice. I took care of my former father-in-law for 17 months after my first husband left me with him. Hospice was wonderful, but exhausting. I will add you to my list of people to pray for through a very difficult time. Strange how it’s one of the most tender times isn’t it? Every moment counts, and nothing else matters.
I will definately take pictures and post when the food grade buckets arrive and the dry dog food, cat food, bird seed, flour, and rice are stored neatly. I used to sit in the room and look around, feeling oh-so-proud of myself. But since I added the second set of shelves it’s upset the “Chi” in the room and it feels apprehensive. I know, it sounds nuts. I want to build a pantry in the garge in the Spring and move it out there. I need the good “Chi” back.
I’ve used the basic principles of Feng Shui for a few years now! It works. Some things just feel comfortable and natural, and others don’t.
Feng Shui, anything to make prepping interesting. Today I stopped by the A& P 70% off items. Some scrubbing brushes 25 cents, a long handled Barbecue fork if I do any fireplace cooking and more teas. I look at everything in terms of its possible future use, but in my little prep game it has to be dirt cheap. Enjoy finding odd things and using them for anything but the intended use, creativity to make the mundane interesting. Its the only way to force myself to do the things that most people find so easy. I am stuck at a 5 years old level. and belong to the otter clan.. Washed one of my smaller sheepskins today. Tommorrow the giant one as they do matt down with use.Tomorrow a trip to the dollar store to see what treasures I can unearth.Thanks for the feng shui tip.. I might actually get around to stacking and sorting things out.,if I can just make it interesting.
Thinking about coping with illness during pandemic — it will be difficult for everyone (and it doesn’t have to be illness with H5N1, just ‘regular’ flu or anything really) will be especially challenging for:
Those who are alone,
Those who are the sole adult with children, especially babies or small children,
Those with a partner who is ill or otherwise not able to fully participate,
Those with emotinally unstable family members
Whew!
Whatever ideas y’all come up with for your situation, continue to post them here as we can all benefit and work through the ideas together. This hive mind is an amazing thing.
Orlandopreppie, I bought a ‘Reliance hassock portable toilet’ from Campmor that’s pretty stable for under $30, plus a bunch of liner bags, and enzymes, all from varous different sources. Plus waterproof pads from Target (not enough, bought one to try out but need several and also something for pillows, too). Also plan to place a 2 1/2 gallon water jug nearby in the sickroom for easy hydration. And cartons of broth.
Wolf – at 08:38 In youth I was a blonde. I now have the distinction of the bronze, silver and gold :)
How exotic! (Thanks for posting the Niman commentary.)
Orlandopreppie, thanks for mentioning Shriner’s Hospitals. They do outstanding work, and all of it is completely free (yes, FREE). These hospitals care for children up to age 18 with orthopedic problems, burns, spinal cord injuries and cleft lip and palate. If you know of a child who might be able to benefit from this help, just contact a Shriner or call 1–800–237–5055 (US) or 1–800–361–7256 (Canada). http://www.shrinershq.org/Hospitals/_Hospitals_for_Children/
Kim, my husband was inpatient at Boston for a year and a half; with follow-ups every summer (or more) until he was 18. He died three times. They saved him and the family was uninsured. If not for them, he would have died at five years of age. There are no words big enough to say thank you to them.
I’ll take a peek at that hassock toilet, I think having something high enough with stable arms is important…one for everyone in the house. For us that would be two (possible three) if we can reach his grandmother in Connecticut in the early wave.
I’ve been practicing with gloves for him. He has odd shaped hands. I’ve been cutting off the fingers, except the thumb, and sealing them with the food saver. They’ve passed a water test but I still need to tailor them. Too much bulk and he can’t use his hands. Without them he can tie his shoes, even pick up coins from the floor but loses that ability with too much bulk. His hands look like short mittens, even different from each other. I remember an old episode of Gilligans Island where they made some kind of rubber compound they dipped their hands in for some goofy reason, and then they could peel it off. Maybe it was to waterproof a raft or something. I wonder if anything like that exists. Any ideas?
Orlandopreppie, just an idea, maybe a theatrical supply house might be able to help with the glove thing. I know they have (latex?) that can be kind of painted on then peeled off to make “life masks”, maybe something like that would work? You might also try to find someone who does prosthetics, they might have an idea of what would work.
Kim, thank you…excellent idea about the latex! One of my students’ parents is employed by a local Playhouse Theatre. He can probably help. The proshetics guys in Orlando are a bad joke. He’s 37 and hasn’t had anything workable made since Shriner’s “released” him almost 20 years ago. Next time he goes for new braces I’ll inquire. I appreciate the ideas. Keep them coming! We may need to get another wheelchair, just an old one, that he could leave in the sick room. That was we won’t have to decontaminate it. Uh-oh…that just reminded me of something. His good wheelchair is used out in the world. In the early days we probably won’t be able to stay home. I need to address ways to decontaminte it…I can’t believe I haven’t thought of this before. Maybe he needs to leave it at work, drive home, use one in the house and one in the sickroom if necessary. Jeez. This just keeps getting better and better!
We’ll need other sets of crutches too. I can’t believe I haven’t thought of this!
Orlandopreppie, there’s a Shriners Hospital in Tampa, maybe you could make a visit there “just for old times sake” and talk to a prothestic person there (and maybe they could give you a lead on a good prosthetics guy who’s close to you). Bet they would be glad to see one of their old patients and willing to let you pick their brains. Or maybe even just write a letter to the prosthetic dept at the Boston hospital for ideas on gloves.
Lots at the dollar store, bought 15 pkgs of extra long hairpins as they fall out since I have very slippery hair. Cost more elsewhere. Goggles and face masks, a few extra pairs of magnifyer glasses. Will comparison shop the costs of other things before I buy them. A very large black cat with a white underbelly was hunting in my car lane, so I stopped the car until it was ready to pounce on its mouse.. Was so intent on its hunt that it completely ignored the car. Big buck with a large rack on the side of the road staring at me intently. Have been writing a poem called, “The Carnal Hours,” about deer in rut, so it was interesting. Time to forget H5N1 for a few days and concentrate on Feng Shui, poetry, and Enjoying the traditions of the season. Happy Thanksgiving y’all. See you after the holidays.Have lost interest in H5N1 for the present.
Orlando Preppie, maybe your husband should have a wheelchair in his car, just in case he has to stop somewhere unexpectedly? Maybe store the sickroom chair in his car when he starts leaving the good chair at work, so he has one everywhere he is.
Drove a 250 mile round trip to pick up a big Berkey I bought off craigslist for 100.00.Add gas 140.00.Came with 3 new ceramic filters and 2 used filters.I am so excited and now a large weight lifted off my back on the water issue.I really never thought I would be able to get one due to cost,but had wanted the big Berkey for over a year now.It paid for me to keep looking on the used sites(craigslist)
Since I was near my bio dads area I decided to swing over and pay him a visit.We had a nice visit and he definately has changed his tune on panflu since I last spoke to him about it last spring.He now believes it will come to pass.I didn’t press the issue last spring since he already is and was a snarky prepping hermit to begin with.I did notice he had some new pantry shelves filled right up with food.He is very into alternative meds and he showed me how he makes collodial Silver and gave me the supplies to do it.Pretty interesting.I will need to do alot more research before I would decide to use any but good to have the knowledge on making it.He uses it maybe 3–4 times a week as a mouth rinse and will drink a bit when he feels like he has any sickness brewing.He isn’t blue,skin looks totally normal.
Malachi – at 10:25 He uses it maybe 3–4 times a week as a mouth rinse and will drink a bit when he feels like he has any sickness brewing.He isn’t blue,skin looks totally normal.
hehehehehe……
good for you on the Berkey!!!!
lady biker
Thanks for the idea! I drove a couple hours to pick up an old treadle sewing machine. Spent most of yesterday taking it apart to clean and oil and put it back together. Didn’t know I had it in me. Today I’m working on the cabinet, then it’s off to get a belt. I’ll be kicking it in gear as soon as the blister on my thumb goes away. (Boy, those old machines can sure get dirty).
Silversage at 1518- you can make a belt for the treadle machine from nylons. A good back up if the need arises.
Hey that’s a cool idea, I’m going nuts because I want to try it out and show my kids that I’m not exactly loonely!
bump
Country Pride Turkeys at Walmart for 32 cents a pound in NC. We bought 8 of them and will go back for some more.
Been shopping on ebay! Got all the rest of my pieces for my treadle sewing machine (needed a bobbin case and face plate). Also, ordered some harry potter science kits to tuck away until needed.
I have two storage closets inventoried, although I did a big shopping trip today to get all the great sales for Thanksgiving. And I cleaned out my garage so I can get the van in (protect the gas tank!) when necessary.
My sister opened her birthday present early (Dr. Woodsons’ new book). She’s a skeptic but thought the book was very comprehensive. yeah! So I sent her Dr Dave’s self sufficiency guide.
Silversage,
I hope your sister finds it useful. Be sure to direct her to page 13, paragraph 1.
In August I gave an earlier version to my nephew and he said “Uncle David, I can’t afford to do this right now.” After he made that comment to me I sat down and wrote the 1st paragraph of page 13. Since then, my nephew has been on two hunting trips and he has gone 4-wheeling in Utah, but he can’t afford to prep. Right. And he has three little girls at home.
Please state again how to get Dr Dave’s self suficiency guide? Thanks
ShenVal,
It is posted with the Pandemic Planning guides.
Make that Pandemic Preparedness Guides.
Dr Dave – at 08:23 Both my sisters can afford to prep. They don’t have kids so they’re not worried like me but I need them to survive in case DH and I don’t and I’ve told them as much. Prepping is a learning curve, I can buy supplies but accepting the reality of the situation takes time. So whenever they open the door a little I send them something else to chew on. So I say thank you for guide. I’ve printed off a copy for my mum too.
We’re off to PA for the holidays. Will have another chat with my gran whose 94. We did find out that her mother died in 1918 from the flu and that both her dad and brother got it but survived (baby sis survived too but I don’t know if she was sick). Should make for some interesting talk around the turkey!
I’m also taking my parents a box of MREs :-) That should scare them silly! Or they’ll have me locked up!
Silversage,
Give each of your sisters and your parents a 4-pack of toilet paper. Tell them that you have made this $1 investment on their behalf and that you fully expect it to increase in value by at least 500% in the next year or two. If that is too subtle, ask them how much this toilet paper would be worth to them if they had already run out and the stores were closed. Still too subtle? Tell them this is for priming the pump, so to speak, and they need to “consolidate their feces”.
Dr Dave — that’s a HOOT! You’re right — it ought to impress even the least prepared person.
I’m-workin’-on-it,
I realize that my last post was a bit out of character for me, but sometimes I think that we need to adopt a “get tough” approach for dealing with the skeptics and detractors. Fear? Yes. Scorn? Yes. Ridicule? Yes. Whatever gets the point across. It is, after all, a matter of life and death.
Silversage,
Use whatever means you can to motivate them. It is for their own good.
As a wise person once said “excrement occurs”
At the Grounds for Sculpture in Hamilton, New Jersey I saw two handerkerchiefs embroidered and hung as works of art. One. “If you eat you poop.” and the other “If you live you die”. Today I bought a lot of odds and ends to make up the 300 needed for a free turkey. Plastic Bags. Lots of Cranberry Juice which I’m adding to my Red Wine so as to have one for lunch and one before sleeping. Bought Columbia vineyard Merlot and Cabernet Sauvengon to hand out for Thanksgiving. Under $10 a bottle. Stretched out with Cranberry Juice enough in one bottle for a week. Now I am going over to see “Casino Royal” the second time. It was so jam packed with athletic chases that I need this second viewing to get it all. The actor , Craig something or other, whose face I didn’t take to , or find initially attractive, is such a fine actor, that I want to watch it a second time and see how he does it. Remarkable, that he makes himself a real person, not a mass of affectations which seemed to be the old 007. Then I’ll pick up my turkey..
I have had a time finding info about the acetaminophen recall contact number. I am posting this in case somebody else needs it:
“Consumers who believe they are in possession of the affected products should discontinue use immediately and call Perrigo’s at 877–546–0454 for further instructions. More info at www.recalls.org “
We took heed of the various posters’ admonishments to check out equipment before TSHTF and boy, am I glad we did. The new propane lantern which we bought a few months back was missing the mantles and would have been useless.
The propane stove works great, as the husband discovered when he touched his finger to the burner. Fortunately for him, the burner was off at the time but it was still very hot. *sigh* You’d think a grown man would know better.
Texas Rose,
I recently bought some Mr Heater 5′ and 12′ hoses that can supply propane from bulk cylinders to appliances that are meant for the 1 pound disposable bottles. You can get these from Coleman or you can get them from Mr Heater. Whichever way you go, be sure to stop by a hardware store for a few extra “O” rings. You will need them to be 9/16″ x 3/8″ x 3/32″. For a fair price on Mr Heater hoses, try Tractor Supply. For Coleman hoses, try a Wal-Mart Supercenter.
Thanks for the advice, Dr. Dave!
Texas Rose,
I forgot to mention that we bought a dozen clip-on mantels for each lantern (two propane, two Coleman liquid fuel). Those clip-ons are really great.
Here is an ignition tip: save your used BBQ grill lighters for your camping appliances. Even if the grill lighters have no fuel, they still have enough spark to light a stove.
Dr. Dave: Again, thanks for the advice. We’ve never used a propane lantern before. Do you know how long the mantles last, if one uses the lantern for several hours at a time?
It has been said often before, but for the newbies- remember that if you do use propane and other items inside you need to have a battery operated carbon monoxide detector for safety. More people have died from carbon monoxide posioning the last 5 years than from bird flu.
Mantels may or may last a very long time. The thing to remember is that they are basically ash after they are “burned in” and are quite fragile. My experience is that they last until broken by a physical shock.
AVanarts – at 15:33
You’re right, they are fragile. With careful handling, I have had mantels last for well over a year.
They`re fragile and agravating. I`ve had 1 last through several camping trips just thrown in their boxes, no care taken. And have had them just disintergrate without any outside forces applied. Get lots.
I know this was probably written in earlier posts but have not seen it. During WWII there was several things that were hard to get even with stamps, tires, gas, sugar, coffee, tea and canned milk just to name a few. I will be willing to bet that baby formula will also be hard to get if tbhtf. During the 1920 and 30′s it became “unfashionable” to breast feed, there are also some women who cannot breast feed (physical reasons) and there maybe some women who cannot because of poor nutrition. We were fed canned milk during the 30′s and 40′s. Since there are several women of child bearing age in our family I plan to buy as much canned milk as I can afford as well as cloth diapers and rubber pants. (I do not think I could afford to stock up on formula.) Just a thought ---I could not stand to see an infant unfed.
Crazy Lady @ 20:37--if you stock up on the canned milk, you might also want to stock some infants multi-vitamins (like Poly Vi Sol with iron, or whatever brand the pediatrician recommends). You’re right, formula is very expensive. The powdered kind is a little cheaper and has somewhat longer shelf-life.
Are n-3 fatty acids essential nutrients for fetal and infant development?
Recent research indicates that n-3 fatty acids (FAs) are essential nutrients in early human development. In human infants, nonhuman primates, and animal models, the n-3 FA, docosahexaenoic acid (DHA, 22:6n-3) is highly concentrated in brain and retinal tissues and accumulates during late fetal and early neonatal life. Diets deficient in n-3 FAs are associated with reduced levels of DHA in erythrocytes and brain and retinal tissues and with abnormalities in retinal function that may be irreversible. The precursor of DHA, alpha-linolenic acid (LNA, 18:3n-3), may be an inadequate substitute for DHA because LNA may not be converted to DHA in sufficient amounts to meet an infant’s needs. Premature infants lose DHA from their tissues unless they are fed human milk or formula supplemented with DHA. Fish and shellfish are the main food sources of DHA. Women who consume fish have more DHA in their breast milk than do those who do not eat seafood. Infant formulas contain only LNA as a source of n-3 FAs. Pregnant and nursing women should be encouraged to consume seafood on a regular basis during pregnancy and lactation to furnish DHA for their infants.
PMID: 8417094 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/
Most Women Unaware Of Key Nutrient Needed For Babies’ Development During Pregnancy And Breastfeeding
The majority of women surveyed know the importance of including folic acid and calcium with vitamin D in their diet, but half of them do not know about the need for DHA Omega-3, a critical nutrient for the development and health of a baby’s brain, heart and eyes.
~snip~
In addition to eating a balance of foods during pregnancy and breastfeeding, women should include the following nutrients in their diets:
— Folic acid: 400 mcg/day to make healthy cells and prevent certain birth defects. The recommendation for folic acid can be met by consuming enriched cereals and grains, by taking a multivitamin, or folic acid supplements.
— Calcium with vitamin D: 1,000 mg of calcium with 200 IU of vitamin D per day for strong bones and teeth. Calcium is readily available in dairy products and fortified foods.
— DHA Omega-3: 300 mg/day for a healthy pregnancy and ongoing health. DHA is found in cold-water oily fish, such as mackerel, herring and salmon. However, pregnant women and women considering pregnancy should not eat certain types of fish because of contaminants which have been shown to harm an unborn infant’s nervous system, according to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. An algal-based source of DHA has been added as an ingredient to some eggs, soymilk, nutrition bars and other foods, providing a safe and healthy alternative. Women should check nutrition labels and ask their grocers and health care providers what foods contain algal-based sources of DHA. Algal-based DHA is also available as a supplement.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=52059
Alternate Milks (Canada) http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/pubs/infant-nourrisson/nut_infant_nourrisson_term_4_e.html
Introduction: Should Infant Formulas Be Supplemented with Bioactive Components and Conditionally Essential Nutrients Present in Human Milk? http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/127/5/971S
Comments on above article: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/129/7/1390
Artificial baby milks: how safe is soya? http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/briefings/tessasoya03.html
Dietary Reference Intakes: Macronutrients
http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/7/300/Webtablemacro.pdf
Asthma and whole milk: http://web.hit.bg/asthma/allergy-whole-milk-infants-asthma.html
Experts debate best alternative to mother’s milk
http://www.physorg.com/news72366428.html
Whatever form is chosen, proper preparation and refrigeration are essential. (You have to scroll down in the article to hit this part of the information.) http://www.fda.gov/fdac/reprints/breastfed.html
Infant feeding in emergencies http://www.euro.who.int/document/e56303.pdf
Wet nursing --- the ultimate bartering chip. (me)
What a happy day! finally the gas company del & set up my 300 lb tank, it only took me 4 months to talk them into why I needed 300 lbs when I only use 100 lbs a year. Everybody thinks I am a bit off so I just wanted to tell someone how happy I am! Now on to the next task…..
CrazyLady at 20:37- this is the link to the Infant Formula thread, -http://tinyurl.com/y5s39q
NC Seeking – at 22:55 - Congratulations! That is so neat to be that prepared (in one area) and what a big section to mark off you list. You ought to start a new diary over on the new forum with that news. It could be the happy diary of great news. May the rest of your prepping be as successful. Happy Thanksgiving. And we all know one thing you’ll be thankful for this year.
I know all the information on breastfeeding you are talking about. I was an instructer for years. I have several Degrees, some in Nursing. What I am talking about is the “extreme”, when we can get nothing else. Canned milk will, did and has worked for years. My father was in the Navy and at the end of the month he walked the streets and picked up bottles to sell and buy canned milk for us. You or your parents were probably brought up on it!!!
It could get as bad here as it is in Africa. Woe unto those who are pregnant and those who are nursing babies in those days!!
My husband nearly died as an infant, and was brought through it with condensed milk. He did have high cholesterol all his life, and the only fat he ate was Haagen Das and cheese. I often thought he may have developed a predisposition for the cholesterol and the taste for high fat milk products from his infancy. He was a lean man, and other wise didn’t like fat.
I know we like to refer people to old threads, and normally I’d take the time to go back and read but it’s still daylight and I’d like to get this done. The ten food grade buckets I ordered arrived. I have not ordered mylar bags. I need to store dog kibble, cat kibble, rice, flour, bird seed, bird pellet, etc. in them. Do I HAVE to use these bags inside the buckets or is it a “nice to have”? They will be stored in my house, in the guest room that has become my grocery store.
Also, I want to wash out the three 55 gallon barrels I have. They are closed top. I was going to boil some water and swish it around. Two of them are used and had high fructose corn syrup in them. The other is new. Is the boiling water enough? Also, when I store the tap water in them do I need to add bleach or is it enough that it’s tap water if I fill them all the way up?
I appreciate the help!
You can store them in the food grade buckets without having mylar bags in them. To be safe, I would remove the tops of the two that had the corn syrup, scrub well and use bleach water to decontaminate. The new 55 gal. drum you can just rinse very well with bleach water. When you store the tap water in them you do not have to add extra bleach.
Thank you so much Crazy Lady. I’ll get moving now. Just had an unhappy experience with Emergency Essentials. They sent the 10 buckets and lids in a “tube” made of boxes. They stacked all the lids together and stacked all the buckets together. Unfortunately, during shipping, that created one perfectly sealed bucket and I can’t get the lid off without “opening” it. I called them, and apparently I have to either spend money I don’t have right now to buy an opener or two, pry it off which I believe will ruin the integrity of the lid. They won’t send one, but they’ve got plenty of people to be condescending. That’s the last buy I make from them.
Again, thanks for your help.
I have ordered a lot from them and have been very happy. Just place another big order last week. Why would call them back tell them you are posing on the internet and most people here have been happy, and that we suggested you try again. They are really nice Mormons our there and very helpful. This is surprising.
I would be happy to call for you if you can’t get them to move on this.
Orlandopreppie- I’m sorry about your experience, but thanks so much for sharing as I was thinking about ordering from them.
I’m just getting back on my feet prep-wise after being ill for a few days. I picked up a stomach bug that was going around work, which wasn’t too bad, but then I got deydrated, and that led into a two day migrane-last week was also very stressful which I’m sure contributed.
Feeling shaky but much better now, and rethinking some prep ideas-especially the bedroom “flu-boxes” that some other preppers have talked about.
Earlier- I think it was on this thread, some folks were talking about “Emergen-C” I picked some up when it was on sale about a month ago- dh and I have become converts-LOVE this stuff! Thanks so much for this info!
I want to wish everyone a nice Thanksgiving! I’m thankful for so many things- I’m especially grateful for every day the pandemic holds off!
My previous experiences with Emergency Essentials has been good too, but then they were free of complication. I spoke to two people, and they were perfectly nice. and condescending. NJ Jeeper, thank you for offering to call them for me. That is so sweet. I’ll see what dh wants to do when he gets in from work.
Green Mom, my father and stepmother caught one of those bugs and were out of circulation for 12 days and then still felt weak and shaky. I’m going to try some of the Emergen-C. I’m glad you’re feeling better.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Green Mom – at 15:48 are you taking one or two packs of Emergen-C a day? Glad you’re better!