I am leading a double life. Does this resonate with you? There is the “regular-go-to-work-each-day-acting-as-if-all-will-be-normal-forever” life. Then there is the “scan-the-horizon-for-possible-pandemic-any-time-now” life. The cognative dissonance is exhausting, and at times I start to question my version of reality.
If you search the web you can find all kinds of nutjob groups: the flat earth society, 6,000 year creationists, UFO believers who are SURE aliens are here. How do we know we are not just another bunch of nuts?
So I’m frequently having this conversation with myself. It goes something like this: “Well, Dr. Osterholm and Dr. Nabarro think there is reason for concern, even the WHO says so sometimes… but why does it feel like there are so few people out there who are involved, who agree we need to prep? Lots of those folks on Wiki seem really knowledgeable about all this, so their opinions must count for something… but do I really know these people? are they reliable?” and so on and so forth.
When I find myself going to the box stores for yet another 50 pounds of rice, more canned goods, more dog food, and hauling all this stuff back where I try to find a place to store it, sometimes I just wonder if I’m a nut case. When I try to talk to friends and family about it and they say things like “Oh, its just another false alarm, live life now, stop talking about doom’s day”, sometimes I just wonder if they are right. When I find myself planning in my head how I would re-arrange and hide my preps if the authorities, or desparate people, came to take them, sometimes I wonder if I’m crazy. When I think about how to defend my home against threats only now imagined, I just wonder if I’ve lost it.
No, it is just that you heard the scientists say “there’s been a 9+ earthquake and can’t say when, but, tsunami is likely”, and it is not going out on the radio because it isn’t in any officials’s job description nor budget nor comfort zone to pass the warning along to the people on the Indian Ocean beaches and scare the tourists for a day if it’s a false alarm….
Humans and politicians and busy families aren’t geared up to prepare for calamities that only happen every 88 years or something; that are too painful to testify about and get in the history curriculums to avoid future complacency.
CCP
If you have lost it don’t worry you are not alone…I feel like you feel. “Sometimes you feel like a nut…somtimes you don’t”
ah! reality check, I love that. Lets anzyce!! I know I have a bad happit of beeing on the forum to much, but am I realy kokko, or is the fact that I only need to open a lexica to tell me, -not.
:-)
Hi, ColdClimate. I suffer that same double-life. I’ve written about it before; the day to day vs looking at it all as if for the last time. As far as the ‘nuttiness’, I make sure to confine my purchases to items that I will have use for - pandemic or no pandemic. The pets will have to eat. OK, so I bought 50 lbs instead of 5. The worst that happens is I don’t have to buy pet food for a longgg time :) Ditto for the dried eggs, TVP, rice, etc. That means if there’s a hard winter, I can skip a trip (or 30) to the store if there’s a blizzard. I’m not getting a generator - I DO have a water filter. I’m fairly comfortable with the extent of my preps and have not put any items on the ‘plastic’ - strictly cash & carry. I am concerned but try not to obsess, (although lately I’ve been far more vigilant, I’ll admit). I like to think of preparedness as foresight for any emergency, not just panflu. Prudent - not panic.
Do I feel like a nut case. NO, I feel informed. Thank all of you.
I think I’d better state right out that my not getting a generator has to do with my own logistics and NOT that I think someone’s nuts if they DO get a generator. Think once - post twice.
ColdClimatePrepper – at 19:17
You have expressed my EXACT same thoughts on this (much more eloquently than I could have, btw).
Here’s how I (and you) can tell if you’re off your rocker: Look at, and read, the look on peoples faces when you rattle off the facts. You can see it in their eyes as they nervously dismiss your concerns as alarmist. They sub consciously realize you are right, but lack the fortitude to face the horrific facts and deal with them.
Everyone has a limit as to what they can handle before mentally shutting it out. Panflu is the worst possible thing I can imagine. Worse than nuclear war, terror attacks, tsunamis, earthquakes, asteroid hit, you name it. Most people just can’t, and won’t, deal with the the thought of panflu. It’s not their fault. They are simply not capable.
The thought of me contracting H5N1 and dying a horrible death, with bodily fluids oozing out of every orifice in my body over the course of 5 to 10 days, terrifies me. But what horrifies me is what happens to my kids if me and my wife go first. That’s why I’m facing the facts that Monotreme, MM, BR, etal bluntly present.
We fluwikians are a key part of the gene pool. We are those extraordinary humans who recognize an extreme threat early on and act upon the expectation of that threat. Sometimes we misfire, but not often. Our species needs some of us in every generation. We are the impregnable citadel, the deepest keep of the castle. If the human race survives another one hundred thousand years, it will be because of us or because of those survivor genes that we passed along to our progeny.
that’s because we get no clear signals from the experts. They are unprecise in what they mean. They scare us, then they calm us down. They are contradicting each other. First they say :”no one knows” , but then they make statements as if they knew.
I just sat through 2 days of Ethical and legal considerations of pandemic mitigation at the Institute of Medicine in Washington DC, with scientists, federal, state, health, officials etc etc etc. No one is saying there is no need for concern. In fact, the major differences in opinion would rest in how bad is bad enough such that our normal professional codes of ethics need to be reconsidered.
They may not agree with your approach, but if there wasn’t a problem, do you think they would have needed to get together to figure out whether they are covered?
lets change the name of this tread into “ Are All the Others Nutcases, or are they just not been told whats going on, How to Find Out?” ;-D
oh! that title actuly translates into “Fluwiki” on my new reality translator sofware.. :D
ah! spelling is noot improved with Famouse Grouse.. (after all its late saturday night where I am…:-)
can there be so many nutcases ? And we few aren’t ? But when we tell them what’s going on, they don’t change !
ColdClimatePrepper, It is said that one out of four is mentally disturbed. Look at three of your friends. If they are okay, than YOU are it. ;^)
spiritinthewind – at 20:12 ColdClimatePrepper, It is said that one out of four is mentally disturbed. Look at three of your friends. If they are okay, than YOU are it. ;^)
But if CCP is ‘it’, he/she won’t be able to determine whether the other three are okay, right?
LOL
Baaaaahahahahahaha!!!! Such a good point anon_22. Back to the drawing board…
Okay you guys…don’t rain on my parade but when you look the the concise oxford dictionary under the word nut job…Tom DVM comes up!!
I know it’s coming…I can see the tree falling…I have envisioned the tree falling…and I am transfixed…I can’t get my legs to work to get out of the way.
Well…if yer just gonna stand there, perhaps you should be shouting orders at your family and let them prep for you. That martyr stuff is SO 1600′s. Get thy butt in gear or ask not for whom the tree falls…
Seriously Tom DVM. The clock is tickin. We need you.
spiritinthewind – at 20:27
Now this one, I really like!
CCP, it all goes back to contemplating the risk (risk analysis). This all started out as very high impact, low probability for me. Under that scenario, it’s worth buying the insurance to protect your family (everyone has to assess this risk for themselves. Assessing that risk is also predicated on receiving good data to come to your conclusions. Some might say not enough good data is available. For me, the data that is available is pretty darned scarey). Now the situation has changed for me over this past year. According to what data I can get my hands on (thanks to all of our newshounds) it appears that this is a very, very high impact, moderate to high probability situation. Time to increase my insurance coverage. At least if my house burned down, I would have time and resources to rebuild (with my insurance proceeds). If I’ve underinsured myself for the next pandemic, I’ll likely neither have ample time nor resources to rebuild. That would be bad.
ColdClimatePrepper:
Do non-preppers regard us as nut jobs? Sadly, many do, including my boss, who has actually vowed not to do anything to prepare. As a fatalist, he compares it with being hit by a train. “Nothing you can do about it”, he says. (Of course, he does not have to sleep on the tracks, does he?) By contrast, how do you suppose I regard my boss and others like him? In my view, they are all in denial. Moreover, by their steadfast resistance to learning about the risks and taking the minimum steps to prepare, their actions would seem to indicate that they are the irrational ones, not us.
De jure – at 20:29 a very, very high impact, moderate to high probability situation. Time to increase my insurance coverage.
That assumes your very, very high impact scenario includes insurance companies being solvent enough to pay you the day after. I don’t know about that one…
anon at 20:07-Most smokers don’t change their habits even though they know beyond the shadow of a doubt the odds are greatly stacked against them. As with Panflu they don’t know the how and when of their medical/life emergency, and they also think that even without preparation (or quitting) they may get lucky. They are addicted to nicotine and a habit of mind, just as this civilization is addicted to the “now”.
Anon_22 at 20:31: Anon_22, thankfully, my “insurance” is in the form of food, medicine, water, etc. That would be pretty ironic if I were to count on a contract to cover me in the event of a mass catastrophe such as a severe pandemic, especially since I deal with such legalities on a day-to-day basis. No, I don’t think I’ll even be counting on a legal system fully up and running if our worst case happens.
Wolf at 19:39 As far as the ‘nuttiness’, I make sure to confine my purchases to items that I will have use for - pandemic or no pandemic. The pets will have to eat. OK, so I bought 50 lbs instead of 5. The worst that happens is I don’t have to buy pet food for a longgg time
I’m with you! Do you think the price of groceries is going to drop?! DOUBT IT! It’s almost like speculation and I love when DH says “oh crap were out of (fill in the blank)” and I go down to my “war room” and voila! Of course the rule is if we have to take something from the war room we have to replace 2x the amount. This does not apply to normal rotation. Pandemic or no pandemic this has become a happy hobby and a very sensible way to live. If I’m crazy then I’m crazy with a usefull hobby! Keep On Prepp’N
K at 20:35- I agree! Besides saving money longterm by rotating my food preps, I am now planning some camping trips that I would never have envisioned. I will broaden my experience for less money, IF the panflu hammer does not come down first.
Sometimes you feel like a nut… sometimes you don’t.
My conversation tonite ended up in the evolutionary selection arena.
Perhaps “we who can see” have something about us that IS different. I have “seen” the catastophe that could be… my friend cannot “see” it.
It might not happen. That’s when you feel you’re crazy-when you remember that it might not happen and then all these other “cool” people who didn’t bother preparing are gonna laugh at you…who cares. My friend the other day goes, “That’ll never happen!”. But atleast it was discussed.
What econ101 at at 19:41 said.
Like I said before, I hope for the best but plan for the worst.
Some times you feel like a nut.
Some times you don’t.
Almond Joy’s got nuts.
Fluwiki don’t.
Goju – at 20:52 Sometimes you feel like a nut… sometimes you don’t.
Aaaaah! Mounds/Almond Joy commercial song running through head. Make it stop! Make it stop!
Jumping Jack Flash – at 19:45 They sub consciously realize you are right, but lack the fortitude to face the horrific facts and deal with them.
Jumpin Jack Flash, I think you are right. My 73-year-old mother today I think hit this nail on the head. She said she thinks that people feel like if they start prepping they are admitting “it” might happen, and they can’t deal with the possibility. That resonated with me. I think you and she may have nailed the answer to the question of why people don’t prep.
spok – at 22:39. Well, said. I was working on something along those lines when I saw Goju’s reply. You beat me to it.
Are we nutjobs? In my opinion, yes, if you go by the convention of someone who is outside of the mainstream. On the other hand, we as paniflu nutjobs are hopefully better prepared then those that have other fixations.
Sorry, have to go. It is time to get on the web and search for the flat-earth, UFO-believing, the moon-landings were a sham web-site.
Mike
Goju, by the way keep going with the great posts. Your replies tend to resonate with me.
Thank God we have the luxury of being “nutjobs”. Those poor people in the “third world” have no options other than the grace of God, whatever they may think about the possibility of panflu.
And besides, this postmodern era is about creating your own identity, “convention” be damned. Hell, we are at the front of a “wave”. Unfortunately, it isn’t the kind of a wave that I wanted to be fronting. : (
They may shoot this messenger yet.
CCP: I look at it this way: go back throughout man’s history. Has there ever been another time (at least from the perspective of those of us in developed Western societies) where the world has known such lengthy peace/prosperity/abundance? If so, it has typically been a short-lived period. Powerful, seemingly indestructable civilizations have risen and fallen, involved in great strife nearly the whole of their existences. Consider yourself uniquely priviledged to have the opportunity to provide for yourself and your loved ones in this short period of nearly unprecedented good fortune which was made possible in large part through the hardships of your ancestors. Consider it a sacred trust that you must pass on the bounty from this time in the form of prudent preparations to your decendants whereby they may have the chance to survive any coming strife and create a new world of peace/prosperity and abundance for themselves and the rest of the world. As for “nuts,” those are the things that clever squirrels put away for the harsh times…
Speaking of waves, from the Tsunami Warning Center:
“Moored Buoy Hull Characteristics — Moored buoys are the weather sentinels of the sea. They are deployed in the coastal and offshore waters from the western Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean around Hawaii, and from the Bering Sea to the South Pacific. NDBC’s moored buoys measure and transmit barometric pressure; wind direction, speed, and gust; air and sea temperature; and wave energy spectra from which significant wave height, dominant wave period, and average wave period are derived. Even the direction of wave propagation is measured on many moored buoys.”
Fluwiki is the Flu Tsunami Warning Center and the people that contribute are the “Moored buoys” or “flu sentinels”. As the date comes in, it is obvious that flu waves are coming. There are too many “Moored buoys” going off for us too be nutjobs. That just leaves the discussion of what the characteristics of the waves will be like.
As the data comes in, this is :)
I mean, that is :) Ok, off to bed with me. Night all.
FLUWIKIE NUTCASE EVALUATIVE EXAMINATION
You could be in serious trouble if you engage in the following behaviors:
1. When you see rice on sale, you scream like a hyena and fill your cart in 3 minutes with nothing but rice.
2. When migratory geese fly over, you plaster yourself to the ground and whip out an umbrella. You show no sign of embarrassment if you do this in a large crowd. You bark loudly to make the geese fly faster.
3. Every morning, you sing “It’s fluwikie forum time” to the tune of the old Howdy Doodie theme song and do the Chicken Dance all the way to your computer.
4. When someone in your family sneezes, you immediately go to fluwikie and check the current day’s news. In several languages, whether you can translate them or not.
5. You held up a tractor trailer full of chocolate and toilet paper and forced the driver to unload the entire contents in your underground bunker. But, you redeemed yourself by giving him a flyer on how moonshine is 90% proven to kill H5N1 virus.
6. Your doctor has a special room just for you to sit in when you come with your questions.
7. Your pharmacist has put out a restraining order against you. You are not allowed to say “Tamiflu” within 500 yards of his business.
8. You throw real knives in the air and try to catch to falling ones, but you can’t remember why you are doing that.
9. You organize your prep goods wearing your old cheerleader outfit. If you can stack your canned corn twenty cans high, you do cartwheels across the basement. Unfortunately, you tried to do splits after you discovered your chocolate preps were completed and had to spend the day in the basement because you couldn’t crawl up the stairs.
10. Finally . . . you are seeking an immediate patent for a “T-95″ face mask. T = “toilet paper” and it is securely applied with rubber bands and duct tape.
;-)
GoJu is right we “see” the danger.
Most people on here have at least a BA many have higher degrees. Those that do not could have if they had wanted or were able to go to College. We as individuals, think out side the box. As I have seen most of us are workaholics. (I am normally working at the same time I am on the wikie) We value life and understand how easy it is for mother nature to take it away. We have our feet planted firmly on the ground and as a result are concerned for the safety and well being of our families.
In short we are the nut jobs because we take life seriously and our responsiblities to our families seriously. The rest of the world wants to party all night while we work to carry them the next day.
Very Very funny thread. Am I crazy…well you should ask the movers who moved us 3 weeks ago.The looks they exchanged everytime they brought another box to the basement labeled FOOD. I mean box after box after box -once I uncovered all the food I had put away in various hiding places in our old house and had it all in one location it was quite impressive. I do sometimes feel nuts but at the same time if every experts says it is coming who am I to argue.
I’m nuts, LOL I paid my daughter $ to send a bulletin to all her friends on myspace to my myspace blog (she has a lot of friends)that I recently started. I have noticed that more people everyday are looking at it. I don’t or haven’t written anything original, info and links to and from here mainly. But I haven’t received any comments—just people looking and hopefully coming here and beginning to prep. A local parents group has been reading the blog too, again no comments but its a small start. 40 people looked at it today.
Ange D has made my day! : )
Of course, there’s number 11: Your friends place bets on how long it will be before you mention “avian flu” or “prepping” at the neighborhood picnic. The guy who put a dollar down on “30 seconds” wins the pool . . .
Anon_451 – at 23:57
I’m not entirely certain what level of higher education has to do with one’s ability to recognize, assess, and react to a threat, IMHO.
Goju – at 20:52
It’s not whether one can or cannot “see” the threat. It is whether one is willing to “acknowledge and react” to the threat, IMHO.
Jumping Jack Flash – at 00:34 Has to do with the ability to “see” beyond your own nose. Those individuals who have the “gift” to “see” are able to think in the abstract. If you tested most of this group with the little boxes laid flat with shapes on them and said put them together, most here would score very high (from your post you would blow me away). As such most of this group would do better in school then the average and have an inquiring mind for knowledge and information again the traits of higher learning. Those who did not go to college most likely have advanced in their careers by being “self trained” and they are very good at what they do.
Ange D’s nutcase evaluation is the funniest thing I’ve read since the “You Know You Are a Survivalist When…..” post on another thread. It made me laugh out loud which is something you shouldn’t do when you are drinking red wine flu killer :)
Crazy like a fox, that’s me. Old enough to know when I am right and when someone is trying to dump a load of bull guano . . .
and ya gotta love the name of the company which distributes all bagged fresh spinach in the US . . .
wait for it
Natural Selection Foods.
CCP- the double life does caught my attention, that is how I feel. I am buying stuff like crazy food and other supplies and storing it in my house and yet only 3 people know. I go to a movie or out to dinner and I wonder are any of these people getting ready? I have tried to talk to several people and they just laugh or the one I love is “ I have learned not to worry about things I can’t control”. I really feel like I have a secrect life, and does make me feel a little strange. Thank God for FW.
Anon_451 – at 00:44
I wonder whether it’s a “gift” or a “willingness” to “see” the threat. When I bring up the topic with “regular” people (non fluwikiers), this weird icy frost of anxiety seems to descend on the topic, like lets not talk about it. Based on the FW site meter, I estimate there’s maybe 1 person out of 100,000 that has a similiar mind set to ours.
The double life livers here on FW are the only people I can relate to regarding panflu. It would certainly be interesting to meet like minded people such as ourselves in person.
great conversation. Thanks for starting it CCC, just reading the title had me LOL. I was trying to explain to a friend what the people on fluwikie are like and I used the title of this thread as an example…
they are the kind of people who, even when joking, inquire “how would we know?” curious, open to ideas etc.
I think also the quality that people are talking about…being sentinals etc is in part caused by the willingness to look at reality without using denial as a defense. Many people here, self included, admit their fear even terror of a severe pandemic…many of you have kids, families, etc that you love more than your own life. For most people or at least many,it is too painful to face the prospect of a severe pandemic so they use DENIAL as their psychological defense. But people here don’t defend to the extent they are immobilized. They are willing to feel the pain and fear and face it so they can prepare. I look at my friends, some dear to me and informed by me (thanks to fluwikie) but not prepping, as if they are another species. It is a different way of being in the world to not face things backed up by facts.
Although people differ on how likely and how severe a pandemic will be, certainly all here agree that it is more likely than some of the things people routinely insure themselves for. WIthout unhealthy denial, one could conclude the average person would be prepping for this risk to the same extent as they prep for other risks of similar magnitude.
I think then one thing we have in common is that we are brave to face fear and act by preparing in a measured way for this risk.
or we are honest with ourselves and don’t use denial overmuch. Or I speak for myself. gotta go to bed. Happy New Year to our Jewish friends
If we are, then we obviously don’t care either!
CCP — you described my state of mind(s) exactly. Yesterday I had an extremely strong bout of self-doubt. I had finally managed to get my husband to drive and accompany me to the wholesale food store and there I stood, surrounded by huge masses of food of all kinds: 25 kilo bags of powdered milk, 10 kilo bags of lentils, barrels of cooking oil, etc. all within my reach and affordable for me. I was overwhelmed with conflicting feelings: do I really need this stuff? Have I just allowed myself to get worked up about a possible, yet probably remote threat? Why is nobody else buying anything like this? Then I forced myself to remember how I feel and what I think when I read FW, forced myself to be loyal to my other self, who knows what she knows, and to recall my own resolve to prep even more (and to begin thinking about my responsibility to have food on hand for others) --- and what did I do? I bought a smaller bag of powdered milk, a smaller bag of lentils, and lots of bottles of really good olive oil. I compromised with me.
And today I’m daydreaming about going back for that really big bag of powdered milk…
food and virus is maybe not the main problem for Austria… What will you do when the tourists can’t come ? Quarantine should also be easy, just a few passes in the alps
anonymous at 7:07: virus will basically be the main problem for everyone! As for borders — Austria has plenty of non-alpine borders, too. The tourists will stay away, that’s certainly true. But that will be a problem for many economies.
Humour
Considering that many of those people who are very very very nuts do not realize that they are nuts, and that when they say they aren’t nuts, sane people know they are nuts, do you think that if we say we are nuts, sane people will believe we are also sane as them?
In which case, then perhaps we should all clamour around that we are nuts, very very very nuts, and we might conceivably get more people to listen to us! No? Noooo? Why?
:-D
when they think we are nuts, that has the advantage that they won’t start to reflect and buy us away the Tamiflu and milk powder and nuts-creme ! You could also try to mimic OCD to the doctor, so he prescribes the Tamiflu just to cure you from OCD ;-) What do the English say : what looks nuts, smells like nuts and goes down like nuts - that _is_ nuts. (or such)
When I described in detail pandemic avian flu to my 85 y.o. mother, (a bad case scenario description by the way), she actually stated that she did not want to live through something like that.
When I proceeded to tell her about the age groups that were most at rist of death - her grandchildren - she woke up. She is now thoroughly prepped for the kids/grandkids. However, some of her children/grandchildren may not make it to her house due to the denial of some of her children.
Natural evolution genetic selection for sure. Keep planning on SIP, keep shopping for SIP, keep figuring out the water supply.
I am privilaged and honored to be acquainted with such great thinkers as you all.
I’m a nut and I like being in this can of mixed nuts with all of you guys.
Hmmm. Are you a nutjob for thinking a pandemic may happen??? Government & sientific leaders say no… Are you a nutjob for preping??? Also, many of the same people say NO… But I would like to point out that you should not just focus on pandemic in your preping… Many things happen to people around the world that would cause them to envy your preps… & many things have potential of happening to you… Natural disasters (Hurricane, earthquake, flood, snow storm, ect.), Terrorist acts, Severe illness to the bread earner of the family, lay-offs… Most preps come in handy for all of these things
Thanks for some humor this morning. I can definately relate. I go to work and am very “normal” member of my community. But I lead this secret life of studying bird flu. I had to laugh about placing bets on how long it would take before I mentioned it at the picnic. I wonder if my friends do this when we go out to lunch. On a serious note, I also question myself from time to time, (not out loud of course), as to whether I am a little crazy, but I will repeat some things I have said before, too much time and energy is being spend by the public sector and more importantly the private sector,ie businesses, that we have to be concerned. This has happened and could happen again. We have the backing of many, many, scientists and medical people who also are very concerned. We are not just one of two and even 30 people with some belief that world will end on a certain date, (again no offense to anyone who is). Pandemics are real and could happen again.
I have often thought it was pretty wierd for us to spend all this time, money, and energy to buy stuff we hope we won’t use!
Ange D - hysterical! Thanks for relieving some of the tension…
I have often asked myself if I was becoming a nutcase. I reached a conclusion based on these things that I know and have observed:
I think that many Americans think of the government as a protective parent who will take care of them in a disaster. This feeling is re-inforced in the media when we see aid workers going to areas hard-hit by earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. For me, Katrina jolted me into the realization that Stuff Happens, and the responsibility to take care of myself first begins with ME. It is MY responsibility to remove myself from harm’s way. It is MY responsibility to provide food, shelter and clothing for myself/my family. It is MY responsibility to be prepared (ie, stock up) for bad times (no electricity, water, gas, food shortages, etc)as much as I possibly can. However, disasters can befall even the best-prepared, and this is where aid organizations and the government come in. Others don’t have the financial means to prepare or escape - this is also where aid organizations and the government come in. However, I think many people don’t take personal responsibility to provide for their own needs for emergency situations. They expect for help to arrive if a disaster strikes, and plan to rely on aid organizations & the government to provide the food, clothing & shelter. As Katrina illustrates, many people who relied on government help were brutally disappointed. And this was a regional disaster, not a national disaster…
This is why all of us at FW understand how critical it is for the government to make it clear to each citizen their role and responsibility to begin to prepare and provision NOW for an emergency. It is just not possible for people to survive an emergency scenario for several weeks or months without emergency provisions.
A nutcase? Are you a nutcase if you provide a life preserver for every passenger on your boat? I’ve concluded that I am informed, prepared and proactive, like many others here on FW. I don’t base my determination of my sanity on the ignorance of the majority of uninformed people out there.
Great thread! ROTFLMAO! CCP, I definately have questioned my sanity at certain points. Usually, I step back and try to take a fresh look at the situation. I always come back to the same place. Some of the best scientific minds are very concerned about pandemic influenza - and some have publically stated that they are prepped. My government is officially recommending that people keep extra supplies on hand. Panflu conferences are happening across the US. Nations around the world are building Tamiflu supplies - supplies that don’t last indefinitley. Governments are investing in vaccine technology and actual vaccine production plants. A lot of people are investing a lot of time and money in pandemic preparedness. If they really didn’t think it was a threat, they wouldn’t be doing this. Final note, self-analysis is a good thing.
Time will tell whether we are crazy, or crazy like a fox. If we are right, our genes and memes will form the basis for the culture that will evolve out of the wreckage of this one. If there is any silver lining to the disaster that a 50% CAR 35%+ CFR pandemic would be it’s that Homo Sapiens would become a stronger more resilient species as a result, and the survivors would be disproportionately represented by those who had the wisdom to see the danger, the courage to prepare, and the ability to defend those preparations. Those who are able to assemble groups to act in concert for mutual self-benefit will have an even stronger advantage. Those who depend on others to support them will be under-represented.
If the flu pandemic doesn’t happen, we will still have a competitive edge in the event of any one of a number of other disasters that could happen at any time. These include: Sudden ice age; asteroidal impact; large scale nuclear exchange; smallpox pandemic or take your pick.
Our society (I refer here specifically to the US) as it is presently organized is not stable. There are far too many point failure risks, to use an engineering term.
That said, one has to always examine the actions one is taking to be sure that you haven’t gone overboard. One ought to match the response to the possible threat. A person’s sanity or lack thereof is measured by their response to perceived threat. In my judgement if someone is presented with a very high impact moderate probability threat, acknowledges the threat, yet refuses to respond, THAT shows unsane behaviour. OTOH, if you see only a vanishingly small likelihood of a given threat ever materializing, then a minimal response may be the right one. Sanity is largely a matter of appropriate responses.
Tom DVM, you spend a great deal of time thinking about this, and have obviously spent a lot of time contributing to the community. Please, take some time to unplug and really contemplate what you are doing, and *not doing*, for yourself.
CCP -
You may be right; I may be crazy, But, it just may be a lunatic that you’re looking for…
Billy Joel. (Not sure if this song was a remake or not.)
I feel pretty good about our preps and our experiments to get ready for the bird flu, and I often feel that disconnect from reality in the same way that you describe. We’re not prepped on anything exotic; just what we can use everyday, and I often wonder if that is not just rationalization on my part. I saved money by buying in bulk, more rationalization. I am learning many, many things and am rethinking old ideas, more rationalization. I am cooking new recipes, and my family is eating better, fresher foods. The rationalization never ends. My yardstick for sanity has always been that it is okay to talk to yourself, but it’s when you start answering yourself that you have a problem. Thank God most days the Flu Wikie answers for me!
Besides, when I am putting the menu tags on mason jars filled with food that I will be giving as gifts this Christmas, I rationalize that I need to give gifts anyway and that I can always give these early WTSHTF and my loved ones are frantically trying to buy supplies at stores that are not stocked!
WildBill – at 08:59 I totally agree with you.
While I did start prepping heavily because of the pandemic,(I always had some supplies set in because of being in a hurricane zone), I now see the wisdom in keeping a “supply room” in case of other scenarios. Nothing we have purchased has been on credit so that it is not putting us in any potential future hardship ie: not being able to keep up with credit card payments. While I’ll never feel 100% confident of our readiness, I do feel that we are taking huge steps to protect our little “family” and maybe a few older neighbor ladies as well.
Does that make me nuts? Nope, I actually feel a bit proud of being able to think outside of the box and taking the responsibility now to act for the future.
Remember the other “nuts” of our time, the world is round, I can fly in a machine like a bird, Einstein, leonardo divinci, we are going to the moon. I’m sure between us we could think of hundreds. Maybe we just see things differently than the rest of the world, and we are the one’s that will make the difference.
WE are NOT crazy. For a long time I tought we were.
We are the experts. Know what S227N is? how about E627K? PB2?
They sure as hell don’t. No clue.
We are the ones who will lead the way.
When Goju was going into his meeting the other day, I reminded him that one problem was that he was in a situation that could make him look a lot like Dick Cheney. Apparently our VP’s theory is that if there is a 1% chance of some event happening, but it has devastating results, then you have to act with the same decisivness as you would if it had a 99% chance of happening (somebody even wrote a book on this, it’s called “The One Percent Doctrine”). The problem is that many sane people think Dick Cheney’s approach is crazy, and not a good or prudent general guideline for policy. However, we are just like Dick Cheney to the rest of the world when we start talking pandemic (although I think we’re raising that percentage of likelihood a lot higher lately). The problem for those of us going into town meetings and such is that we do not want to appear that way. But, I think that the level of alarm we bring to a subject is a consequence of our level of exposure to the detail - and most of us here are deep into the details. Cheney’s policy may not be such a bad one on the face of it, but if we are to be effective with such a low possiblity/high impact agenda then we need to be wholly transparent about what we know and bring a great level of detail to the table. Otherwise, the hard-to-envision but devastating scenario we wish others to act upon does look quite nuts. We have to look at our presentations as an outsider would. Goju somehow accomplished that the other day.
Funny, I did not know that Goju was posting just then. That’s what I mean - the detail.
For the record. Pixie helped me fine tune my presentation. She has a firm grasp on what they needed to hear and what they Cannot hear.
While i received so much great advice and guidence from you guys from the Questions i asked at the NYC conference to my town meeting, It was Pixie who had the greatest impact on my presentation.
Thanks Pix.
Lock me up in the loonie bin with these other nutjobs!
Also For th erecord - Pixie is an original nutcase. As am I
Aw, thanks Go…I think!?
For those that can prep is it not the arrogance of western society to think that harm will not come their way? To think anyone is above this threat may be a sign that they feel it only happens to the weak and the poor. When horrible events happen what do you hear people say “I never thought it would happen to me”. I don’t hear that from those in third world countries. I often ask myself “why wouldn’t that happen to me and if so, what can I do to mitigate the chances or the extent of damage?” A basic example is taking up road cycling on major roadways; I started up last year and I’ve heard about several cyclists deaths in my area; my reaction is “what can I learn from the details?”, then I make a plan.
I’ve also come to the conclusion that since I’m also living this double life; normal activities daily but a couple hours are devoted to prepping (reading news, fluwikie updates, physical preps) I do believe more are prepping than let on; I tell nobody what I’m doing and if you asked me I would deny so you don’t know about my preps.
I don’t think any of us haven’t questioned our “nutability” but I agree we are unique and we have the survival gene.
aww - its NUTin pix
Prepping Gal - I wondered about the arrogance not just of the West towards the rest of the world, but of some here towards the less fortunate in our country. I live in an affluent metro area. When Katrina happened, there was quite a lot of arrogance around here as to how those trapped in the arena were victims of their own…well stupidity, lack of forethought, and energy. They were roundly faulted for being lazy about taking sufficient precautions to take care of themselves and their families.
These same people know that there might be another kind of storm may be brewing, but they view it in the same way that many people in N.O. viewed the possible failure of the levies. The unforgivable part of the scenario this time is that the people I have spoken with here about possible upcoming danger are more than able to prepare, while some in N.O. were not. Unfortunately, often turn about is fair play, as they say.
Pixie at 18:49-Don’t you know, only “losers” would think the way we do and prepare, (a chuckle here).
Yes, there will be a lot of supposedly smart people as well as irresponsible people caught with their pants down. It will be an equal opportunity embarrassment that will end up getting them killed.
Now, if we can just avoid being part of the collateral damage.
I remember watching the aftermath of the Tsunami 2 years ago. I said to myself, this is unbelieveable. How could happen? How could so many people die in just under 5–10 minutes? I just sat there with my mouth open, staring at the TV. Tsunamis happen. They’ve happened before, they will happen again. Pandemics happen. They’ve happened before, they will happen again.
CCP, you’re not the only one! I am living this weird double life as well, and have doubted my sanity. Here I am doing perfectly normal day-to-day stuff with my family, and still I’m stuffing prep food inside my end tables and my under my bed. A former anti-gun person, I’ve purchased a wicked black shotgun and pursued the resources and training to use it… as well as having my 10y.o. trained on it, too. We both just went through a hunter education class together. I can’t tell you what a sea change in attitude this means. A year ago I would have said that’s insane. What’s up with this? I ask myself. Have I gone around the bend?
This is how I’ve been looking at it: 1.) If people much smarter than myself who know a lot about the subject are worried, it would behoove me to pay attention. And I can’t think of more authoratative sources than Dr. Webster and Dr. Olsterholm with respect to the flu, and what they’ve been saying is hair-raising.
2.) I’ve never gone around the bend before. There are no alien abductions, paranoid fears about *other* things or anything else of that nature. Conspiracy theories make my eyes roll. If I’m crazy, it’s of recent origin, specific to this subject and doesn’t affect any other aspect of my life.
3. I’m a science-minded person and a skeptic by nature. I like my science straight up and want to see double-blind studies, reproducible results, peer review and publication in respected journals. Whatever works for other people is fine for them, and no offense intended to pratictioners or fans of alterna-medicine, but until aromatherapy, homeopathy, chiropracy, naturopathy, noni-juice cures and other assorted “sciences” can meet those standards, they don’t hold a lot of water for me. But from what I’ve seen of the information coming out from the scientists involved with the research on a possible panflu, I can’t poke holes in it at all. It reads as legit to me. And once again, what the information is saying is earthshaking.
So almost against myself, I’m making real plans and putting hard-earned money into it. (I’m frugal so that means a lot, too!) I’m contemplating making a major purchase involving a country house; if a panflu never happens, it will burden us financially in a very bad way; if I’m right, it could save our lives. Aaaaagh! What to do! The cognitive dissonance is driving me crazy!
I feel so much less crazy knowing I’m not the only one exhibiting this odd prepping behavior.
Occasionally, I wonder where I might bury food in the woods…without anyone noticing, then am sure I’ve really lost it.
Otherwise, I’m actually proud of myself for being so informed and motivated. For the most part, I only feel like a nutjob when I try to inform other people. These online forums are the only place I can connect with people who take this risk seriously and are doing something about it.
Cheers, all!
i am on the verge of a great business deal that may change my life forever.
i am on the verge of a devistating panflu that may change my life forever.
Talk about scizoid.
I have been wondering this myself too for quite some time.
Last year this about this time I discovered information about this avian flu and possible pandemic. I have chickens myself so I was initially interested in this disease from that perspective. I had read a few articles a year before that on chicken diseases and was really surprised by this. But I quickly got into the prep thing and was really obsessed by this task for quite a while last fall and winter. Having young children in the house really made me worry about this. I have never reacted like this to any other threatening event — not y2k or 911 so I wonder why this looming disaster is such a problem for me. I really had this feeling that the pandemic would start soon and even felt that it would be before thanksgiving, then christmas, then my children’s birthdays, before my kitchen cabinets were finished, before our vacations. Looking back I am glad that I actually prepared for these events even though I was sure they would not happen since I cant imagine the disappointment that would have occurred without presents or christmas dinner. Its difficult to go through the motions of everyday life when something so frightening looms to destroy it all. But sometime this summer my mental outlook towards this changed. Afterall — there was a christmas and my children did have another birthday, and I have my new kitchen (still working on that though), and we actually did go on vacation. I stopped checking these forums obsessively, I actually stopped thinking about how I might have to kill my own chickens, and we started eating some of this prep food. I havent been to the grocery store myself these last 4 months at all — my husband has done it and he really isnt into the prepping idea. As far as the pandemic is concerned I am worried about it still and am glad that I have prepped some. The prepping gives me some assurance and I know that even though I probably dont have all I need at least I have tried. At this point I am going to go back to living life with its normal stresses instead of focussing on this so much. I really think that I wasted much too much time worrying about this pandemic. There really are a lot of scarey things going on in the world and I am not discounting the threat of the pandemic — but it doesnt seem right to me to be worrying about this so much that it effects your daily life. You dont want to miss out on the day to day joys. I think the idea of so many people and loved ones dying and so many dramatic changes to the world made me feel really sad (not depressed though). I want to watch my children grow up and have happy lives.
I am not advocating against prepping by any means, but I do wonder sometimes if these forums encourage fear. With everyone else here so worried about this imminent disaster it certainly is easy to get carried away. I dont think I will ever be able to erase my knowledge of pandemics but I am going to avoid spending too much time looking into information on other disasters such as terrorism, global warming, and nuclear attack. I just dont see how I could exist with all these threats so imminent.
So I am wondering the same thing … Am I sane or crazy to have prepped for this. Maybe I wasted too much time and money already or maybe I am smart to have protected my family. I guess only time will tell. On the other hand I hope I had temporary insanity and nothing bad happens in the future.
Yes, I would definitely say, that according to the majority, we may very well be considered, “nutjobs”. We are trying to convey an idea that has not been widely accepted by the general population, and in fact, the end result of what H5N1 may mean, may have a wide range of possibilities, and may end up being very different from our “vision” of that possibility. We are in a very small majority in the overall consensus of what the population may feel about the possibility. Because it is our “conviction” that a pandemic is possible and even imminent, it does not have everyone jumping over into our “way of thinking”. Are we right? I think so, but of course, I am a nutjob.
Today I was being introspective and said something to my husband about how sad it was that two more small children have died of “bird flu”, and he said something like, “Where do you get this stuff? I never see anything about people dying of bird flu”.
That’s the ticker…we are actively searching out any information we can with regard to what “is” and what “may” be going in the world stage regarding “bird flu”, but most are in complete unknowing bliss.
I have spent DAYS and WEEKS reading, researching, searching the Internet, etc., for any tidbit of information or news reports that I can find, that may lead me to some knowledge, information or truth, that will be before the “masses”. What I have learned of the impending peril has led me to my current “state of mind.” Most, and I would guess most (98%?) have no interest in trying to decipher these sources of what may be, before it occurs. Until the powers that be, publicly, and I mean publicly, address the danger, (24 hour coverage on CNN, etc., videos of people dying in horrific detail), most will pay no heed. Louder proclamations of the danger that may exist, on a small scale, will not necessarily make significant amounts of “others” to come on board to our way of thinking.
So until that time comes, we will indeed be considered nutjobs, even if they say it quietly behind our backs. :) It’s kind of nice to feel special, don’t you think? ;)
I thought that my mil and sil were prepping and concerned about bf but then my kid spent the day with them and later told me that they were joking about my obsession.Same with the school principal,He was patiently letting me talk and then ignoring all I had said.I may be a nutjob,but I would rather be known as that than a corpse.
“a fool may learn from his mistakes. I prefer to learn from the mistakes of others.” -Otto von Bismark.
History teaches us time and again that those who are prepared for trouble generally don’t have much. Time will tell who is crazy.
My Town Selectman, Town Police Cheif, Fire Chief, Health Chief, CEO, emergency management teams of 4 towns and Hone Nursing team think I am dead on. They dont think i an a nutjob. They want me to take charge of prepping our residents. I presented the evidence we all have seen and they understand what it means.
We are not nuts. Everyone who understand what H5N1 is, what it has done and what it can do is very scared. Big Biz is spending millions of dollars in preparation… they dont do that over nothing.
What was that 1950′s movie… “Look to the sky for a warning”?
We are watching Indo, china, africa, india, nepal for a warning.
There is a monster out there about to pounce. do not allow the naysayers to sway you. We do not alarm on these sites, it is the news of what H5N1 is doing that terrifies us.
The virus is killing the young. 80% of the kids that catch it die. There is no vaccine. Those are the realities.
Not fantasy of a nutjob.
I would rather be considered crazy alive than Dead Wrong! gina
Ange D – at 23:50 FLUWIKIE NUTCASE EVALUATIVE EXAMINATION
6. Your doctor has a special room just for you to sit in when you come with your questions.
(The room is padded)
SCW AZ – at 23:01 “Ange D – at 23:50 FLUWIKIE NUTCASE EVALUATIVE EXAMINATION 6. Your doctor has a special room just for you to sit in when you come with your questions. (The room is padded)”
Wow! How could you have known that . . .unless . . . WE BOTH GO TO THE SAME DOCTOR!!!! (((High fiving the computer and slam dunking another Tamiflu box through the basketball hoop!)))
;-) lol!
Calandriel at 9:28 -
Thank you for a great post. I loved your last line, and I’m going to copy your quote and stick it on my refridgerator when I question my sanity:
“I don’t base the determination of my sanity on the ignorance of the majority of the uninformed people out there.” (-or in my midst, for that matter!)
I tire of regularly being made fun of amongst my own family members (husband, children, mother, father, sister and brother). It hurts. I cornered my folks yesterday and asked why they insist on the ridicule. My mom said, “because I can’t come to grips with it,I guess” and that she “just hasn’t heard much about it.” How that justifies ridicule I don’t know. I told her that she was riding on the Titanic and playing shuffleboard with the ice floes on deck when she should be getting her lifejacket on instead. She laughed! My dad insisted they’d be okay with the stuff they already have on hand, and that everyone is going to be hurtin’anyway. In the end he was reading avianflu forum threads.
I think of how frightening it was for me to get my arms around the idea of a pandemic, and how long that took, how much sleep I lost. I feel for them-they have to go through the same process, but it takes quiet reflection, courage, and determination to prepare on their part. Many of them are too preoccupied to reflect, some do not have the courage to think it through, and others are saving money for other things. Most refuse to learn more, and if they do, they burn out quickly on the subject.
All of us are riding on the “unsinkable” Titanic.
Ange D- you make me laugh. thank you
Just so you all know where I am coming from, I had to take a test to insure that I was totally insane before I could accept my current job. So yeah I am a complete nut job.
At work I just present some official facts and simple power point lists and let people come to their own conclusion without letting my concerns show through. It goes over OK and some get more concerned than when I’ve let my feelings about it come through. The less I try, the more I succeed I think. Don’t forget that people like to take the opposing view.
How can the lotus blossom know it is beautiful? It can’t know that, can it? We can see it’s beauty. We can tell each other about it’s color, shape, delicacy, and perfume. But the flower will never know that it pleases the world to have it live among us. We may even order our lives around the garden that the flower dominates and if we are lucky we may sit on a small bench and share hours of our time focused on it’s essential place in our life. To have and appreciate such beauty in life is a rare gift. Can you see the flower in a garden? Does the flower know what you feel? The world will not slow down long enough to know that the flower even exists. You will never even see the flower if you do not take the time to see life as it really matters. The flowers of all gardens only know that they must do what is in their nature. You do in life what you find to be the good, the true and the beautiful, how can you ever have self doubt on such a path? Does this not lead you to the flower?
ColdClimatePrepper – at 19:17
“How do we know we are not just another bunch of nuts?”
Well…what’s the definition of a “nut”? I’d say if your preocupation with anything not considered “mainstream” - such as the earth-shaking events concerning who won some football game, or which drug-addicted over-paid hollywood “celebrity” is now pregnant or gay etc - serves a purpose for YOU then what’s the problem?
I’ve got a bunch of rice and beans, batteries and propane and frankly am glad its there because I believe sincerely this world is going to hell faster than we realize. The way things are going we will get nuked before long. The world will change forever after that happens. Bird flu is ONE thing to consider but frankly don’t have a clue if it’s going to brak loose or not. I don’t loose a minute of sleep over it.
If I saw some signs that things were heating up in that regard I’d go on a major canned soup run but haven’t seen it yet. The great thing about having been in panic mode at one time is that I got EDUMACATED concerning preparation and pandemics etc so kind of know what to watch for anf how to prep. But again if it happens it happens.
Look, we all want to live for ever and none of is going to (barring afterlife considerations). Crazy? Who cares. It’s your friggin life live it the way you want.
Angie D - As usual, I laughed myself silly over your post. You should have your own thread and post as often as possible just to cheer everyone up. Every day after I read the “News Thread” and the “Preps You May Have Forgotten Thread” (in other words, my homework for the day), I look for humorous comments. It keeps me balanced so I don’t feel like such a “nutjob”. I think that humor has to be our saving grace. We are all willing to face an unfathomable, unimaginable event and do our best to prepare in order to survive it. But at the same time we need to revive ourselves with a good laugh and remember to appreciate each day for what it is. Well, enough preaching. I have to go to my Support Group for Alien Abductees now.
History Lover – at 18:08 - Thank you.
I begin to wonder about my own mental stability as I live this “double life” of knowing about a pandemic and while at the same time struggling to get past multiple insurance obstacles for treatment of a painful injury and to trying to keep up my confidence and “sell” myself into a new job anywhere I can find a livable wage for my family. Without a job there is precious little I can do to prep, but then I stress to the point I feel sick because I cannot hear so many times that the outbreak may be in 2 weeks or 2 months or 2 years.
If it were just me, I think I’d give up and fall to something akin to modern pagan debauchery, but with 2 young children and a sense that with the gift of knowledge comes obligation of doing those things my morals tell me are for the common good.
What I really need to remember is what stand up comic Frank King (a childhood friend who had just had heart surgery) told me over a decade ago: “Life is far too important to be taken seriously!” - meaning that things may be grave, but I don’t have to act like I’m already dead as long as I am still breathing. Many days I forget that.
So the Support Group for Alien Abductees and slam-dunking a box of Tamiflu is worth a dozen sobering reports and an in-depth understanding of the political workings of international agencies. If I can’t laugh once in a while am I really alive anyhow, or just waiting for my final sentence to be passed? I’ll go for laughing a bit - it fights depression, anger, helplessness, and even has been shown to enhance one’s love life. Best wishes.
I’ve been away for a few days and away from the internet. Just catching up on the news and the discussion here on the Wiki. I too am feeling like I’m living a double life. Planning both for the “normal” future and the panflu future. Sure can get stressful. Just wanted to say that Nothstar’s post on September 24 at 19:34 mirrors my thoughts and expresses them better than I could have myself!
Yes I have had the same thoughts from time to time, but I have also lived in Florida for the past 25 years and before two years ago did nothing to prepare for Hurricanes. Then we got hit twice in two weeks and I lost half my house, was out of power for weeks and had no food or A/c etc, and watched how crazy people get when they need something, be it fuel, plywood, generator, food etc……SO now when I learned about BIrd Flu thanks to this site, I got prepared fast, I don’t need a tree to fall on me twice! I have preps for 6 months plus, hand pump for well, backups for everything.I continue to inform friends about B/F , some listen , some don’t. I sleep better knowing I have done all I can to be ready. Call me crazy!
I may be a nutjob (ok some family and friends think that) but at least I can show from credible sources, such as Dr. Webster, Dr. Osterholm, Dr. John Oxford from this link at ABC http://tinyurl.com/ltvjj that indeed we and the world have a true Halloween scare happening in the process. And when these interviews were conducted, since the news has gotten worse from Asia. I look at any that REFUSE to prep the real NUTS,,,
Dude @ 1:06 That was beautiful and oh so true!
If we are nutjobs, we have some very prestigious and knowledgeable company!
Just a few thoughts…
Nuts can be excellent PREP foods!
Squirrels save nuts to ensure a ready food supply during lean times.
They have tough exteriors for protection.
Mighty trees grow from little nuts.
Assorted, mixed nuts just might make a good logo…we could do worse…
Just to take the squirrels and the nuts thing a little further…I think those of us who are pleasantly plump…say twenty pounds overweight…have actually been subconciously prepping for years. /:0)
Lohrewok @ 19:58 Thank you. It was fun to write. I paid for it the next morning at work…grin. (Read it with wiki member = the flower.) Too many Buddhist in my scientific rationalist life.
Cold climate love the thread about whether you are losing it or not! I also have this feeling from time to time especially as i lovingly stocktake my canned fruit, rearrange my stash and doublecheck my to do lists - some how it is also comforting if a little crazy …………
Nuts?
The voices say no and they’re never wrong <g>
I never thought of myself as nuts or as normal. I do what I want to do, think what I want, and the devil take the hindmost. Whatever that means. I do think the people of the wiki are serious and thoughtful people. A few begin as panicky, but settle down. The people who panic about everything eventually find something else to worry about. I can’t say I’m a prepper, or a worrier or someone who likes to be in control of anything but their own little existence. It really boils down to that. Life and death. Existence.
I suggest that the people here who are concerned as to whether you are nuts or not, attend one of the pandemic flu meetings which are available around the country. Check out the conference list and find one close by. I did. I found that I was extremely knowledgeable (Thanks to you guys) and it will confirm that you are not crazy.
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