A first, I was reluctant to move over because I was used to the old forum and didn’t want to lose contact with my friends who post there. Now though, I have decided to post exclusively on the new forum and hope that those of you who have not yet made the move will do so soon. The new forum is not hard to use, as I feared it might be and it is so much more capable than the old forum.
I am posting this last message on the old forum just to let everyone know why his or her questions or comments for me are no longer being answered on the old forum. To reach me, visit the new forum.
It is important that all of us make this move so that the current of the important ideas expressed in our threads and posts remain united. Having two forums is like having two websites and this dilutes the content and flow of our conversations. If you have not already done so, please make the move; I miss reading your sage comments, humor, and pearls of advice and wisdom.
So, for me it is goodbye old forum, hello new forum.
Grattan Woodson, MD
Sorry Doc, I respectfully disagree.
I do agree that the threads are now split, and the cohesiveness of thought is not there.
I still find it un-necessarily difficult to navigate on the new forum and therefore do most of my posts here, where I can have a quick overview of the threads in one easy-to-scroll format.
The three squished columns, comment titles unrelated to the diary titles, and having to dig layers deep to find what I want just doesn’t work for me.
I want simple, fast, and aggregated.
To each their own.
The new forum/wiki/sandblox, whatever thingy you call it will do just fine, albeit with a different mix of people.
And that’s unfortunate, but that’s life.
I’m glad you found your home there.
I’m still trying to find one there with little success.
ditto ditto and more ditto! (tobird guano’s post)
I too find the new site more difficult.Perhaps with time and useage it will be better.I like to be able to tell at a glance if there are any intresting threads, which I cannot do as easily on the new site. Kelly
Felt like screaming the first time I tried to use the new site, but as time goes on it becomes easier. That said, I agree that this “old yellow” is much more user friendly, easier to navigate and use. Heck, I just like the soothing color! A little nostalgic I guess. The Doctor’s Prep Guide was the first extensive thing I read here back in Sept. 05, and will follow him anywhere! <:o)
This old forum is better. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Ok everyone I know it is human nature to not like change, and I am right there with you. I am not a computer nerd by any stardard, infact I can hardly turn on the thing and I don’t understand windows,I just muddle through. So if I can use the new site so can everyone else, will there be a learning curve yes, will it take time yes, but that is what keeps your brain young. So dive in and have the fun of learning something new.
Its too cluttered. It’s too much like CE. Sorry. Just the facts madam.
Bird Guano, I posted a question for you regarding wildland firefighting materials on the new site under the California thread. The question includes a link to a website. If you ever visit the new site again, please look up my question. Thanks!
DON”T TAKE THE BAIT BIRD GUANO!
IT”S A TRAP!
I use both sites but yea I like this one better.
I have been a member of several internet forums, and have never seen one as user-unfriendly as the new FW forum.
Sorry, but that’s just the way it is. Most forums seem to be laid out more like AFT, although without the black and orange “Halloween” motif.
LOL @ JWB’s post!
AVanarts, that’s because it’s not a bulletin board. It does take a bit of time to get used to it but the rewards are worth it.
I have to second (or third, or fourth) that this forum is much easier to navigate. I’m afraid I’ll miss something extreamly important on the new one. At least here if people are posting like crazy, the thread is at the top and you can see it right away.
Agree compleyely with “quick overview of the threads in one easy-to-scroll format. “
PLEASE monitors- put this in place on the new site.
Also have to agree that this site is much, much easier to use but I still look on the new site as a lurker for any gems that may be hidden. For two way conversation this site is still my favorite. Also feel that is a good idea to spread the traffic between the two sites in the event that the SHTF.
DC, go here and use it as your “go to the site” page if you prefer it.
Carrey in VA , the bump feature is one we have recommended in the next upgrade. But if you are registered and logged in, you get the same info by seeing how many new comments there are and where they are.
While I applaud the efforts to develope an improved forum, I find this old one easier and will likely remain here. Sry.
Jumping Jack Flash
Don’t apologize! if we wanted it otherwise, this one wouldn’t still be here.
What we do encourage is go to the other site and register and log in. Until you do, many of the features are unavailable. That includes navigation features like seeing new comments.
And use the new forum a bit at a time.
there may come a day when this place isn’t here. it crashes a lot, it can’t handle volume and it is not the future. The other site is more robust in many ways.
DemFromCT — 01 December 2006, 19:06n wrote:
\”there may come a day when this place isn’t here. it crashes a lot, it can’t handle volume and it is not the future. The other site is more robust in many ways.\”
Think out of the box.
i also like this format much better - new format is too confusing
I have also tried both forums, and I will stay with the “old forum”. To have everyone switch now is to me ludicrous, with such a long and successful. I would think it would be better just to “kill” this side, and everyone that wants to use the new one can, but by having a split forum does neither side any good.
I like this old site better also. I registered at the new one just because the features there that make it easier to use are only available to registered users. I don’t like that because it makes me feel like I am being manipulated into registering via restriction to an inferior product. To get the information that I need efficiently, without a lot of visual distraction, I vastly prefer this format.
You guys, I agree that this forum is easier to scan. But once I adjusted my settings in preferences to get my view to be more similar to this one, things fell into place.
What has helped me most is to figure out which areas at the new forum function in ways similar to my favorite functions here.
Here’s how it breaks down for me:
Adjusted my preferences to a “flat” view. That means all comments in a diary/thread post in the order they are made (same as it is here) rather than in that annoying indented trail that made my head hurt.
Bookmarked the front page.
Start navigating each visit from the front page by scanning the “Recent comments” column in the lefthand margin. For all intents and purposes, it is the same exact thing as the index here. Most recent comments rise to the top (same as here). The list (which granted, is way to damn skinny) shows the comment title (that’s new), the thread title (just like here), and who posted the comment (just like here). Since the most recent comments rise to the top of the list (just like here), I know who is commenting on what (i.e., what threads are active).
I do NOT click on the comment title. I click on the thread title. If you click on the comment title, it only displays that one comment out of context, which is pointless IMO. So, here’s what I do…
I click on the thread/diary title to view the diary/thread I’m interested in. That takes me to the top of the thread (just like here). Right now, I have my view set up to place new comments at the end of the diary, which means I skip to the end of the diary using my “End” key and scroll up to the first new comment. This is easy to do because new comments are marked “New” in red letters. (I think I am going to change my preferences so that the new messages post at the top of the diary so I don’t have to do the End/scroll thing, but haven’t tried it yet.)
And that’s that. I don’t dub around with linking here, there, and everywhere. That will come. For now, I’m just interested in the accessing the content in the most straightforward way possible.
I hope you guys come over. We miss you.
Nonetheless, the action is over there. I appreciate the comments, but you need to understand the limitations of this site.
Gary Near Death Valley
I am not going to even think about the long, long term future until after the holidays.
Plus, you would not believe the amount of time you save. It loads pages so fast it’s crazy. My house is actually clean for the first time since I started reading the wiki last spring! (Joking, but not entirely!)
Edna Mode,
But…waiting for pages to load is when I clean my house…(Joking, but not entirely!) LOL!
It’s really worth giving it a try. I didn’t like the new forum at first but then I found myself adjusting to it (it just took an hour and it helped to find a discussion I was interested in.) I can’t blame people for not wanting to make the switch, but it would be great to have you all over there. Ad yes, it is WAY faster.
A big “pro” for me on the new forum is that when people want to type something like “LOL”or “Good one, Bronco Bill” they just type it in the comment title with n/t after it. SO you can see at a glanice if the “new message” in the thread you are following is worth opening or not. I always hated seeing a favorite thread at the top of this forum, and clicking on it just to find “LOL” and “ditto”. (Of course, I hated it because it took so damn long to open the thread in the first place.
Just think of it this way — you know sometime in the future there’s gonna be some BIG STUFF in the news and you are gonna click on to the old forum hoping to get the scoop — only it’ll have crashed — so you are going to HAVE to check out the new forum — do you really want to be in that situation, just learning to navigate and register for the first time in a crisis situation?
Edna Mode,
Re: navigating the new forum
That’s just about how I do it - and it’s really OK. But I do hate how the “family” has split up. I now have to visit 3 different sites just to keep up with everything and everyone :-(
This old forum met more than what was needed. Quick, clear, concise ideas.
No bells and whistles. This isn’t a forum about video games. It’s not about cute sayings, and as in the case of CE, pretty icons and smilie pacman faces that perform.
It’s a forum about survival. And the clock is running out.
DemFromCT — 01 December 2006, 17:54
AVanarts, that’s because it’s not a bulletin board. It does take a bit of time to get used to it but the rewards are worth it.
Sorry Dem. I know you have a lot emotionally invested but so far the rewards are NOT worth it, and I have invested a lot of time.
I circled back to the firefighting post there when I had time tonight, and posted my book suggestions in that post.
I’m not OPPOSED to using the new site. I just think it leaves a LOT to be desired on functionality.
JWB? — 01 December 2006, 22:15
Bird guano — 01 December 2006, 23:32
Yeah, I think I’ve gotten to know my way around the “new” forum - just don’t like it as well. There is an intimacy here that is lost, a ‘friendliness’… missing there. In time I may adjust, but for now it is a bunch of disconnected ramblings - despite the whizbang ability to pull together whatever posts, diaries, etc. which are to my liking. Maybe that’s the problem (or at least MY problem). This forum (backwards-bulletin-board type) is kinda like a family conversation -Uncle Arbuckle’s hemorroids (at the holiday dinnertable, no less!) along with (the quiet) grandchild who has just posited the latest quantum theory with a few new twists including string theory (huh?). I suppose what I’m saying is that sometimes reading through these threads (not Diaries - THREADS) gives me a bit more than I might have ‘chosen’ to read, or think about, but was invaluable, nonetheless.
My 0.02 in the matter. I have only posted twice to the forum but have “lurked” for almost a year. Did anyone consider those that are “mentally challenged” or have visual problems in trying to transfer over and understand the new site?
Well, leave it to dreamland to solve some things. I just took a cat nap. The good news is BOTH sites are excellent. They both appeal to how certain people process info.
I also reread through this thread again and I agree with Sailor — 01 December 2006, 18:40 ….Also feel that is a good idea to spread the traffic between the two sites in the event that the SHTF.….
and ….
parkingme? — 02 December 2006, 01:19 My 0.02 in the matter. I have only posted twice to the forum but have “lurked” for almost a year. Did anyone consider those that are “mentally challenged” or have visual problems in trying to transfer over and understand the new site?
It’s a GOOD thing that fluwiki split.
They veterans have been spread around now.
An influx of newbies is on the way.
Sorry for trashing CE. Myspace people will gravitate to that site, where they will certainly be in good hands.
Wolf? — 01 December 2006, 23:58
Thanks for puttin it in words.
This format is ‘just different’. It appeals, IMHO, to people who see things as holistic. And when they choose to have tunnel vision, wha laa..
JWB
“This format is just different.”
Yes, it is. What I’m finding is that it is (I assume for those who say so) easier to read things over here, but no question it is easier to do things over there (put together lists, build similarly linked diaries, search previously put together information, take polls, show teaching videos, etc.).
I suppose it might depend on what you come to the site for. That’s why having “different” is helpful because we reach different people. But those that want to ‘do’ and not just read are there (whether it’s manning the lookout posts or stocking the wiki and not just the Forum with data and links) and many of us are highly committed to that. The new site is for them.
They veterans have been spread around now.
An influx of newbies is on the way.
I have not gone out of my way to advertise the new site. I want people (you, us) to get comfortable there, and then we’ll see what happens if we get an influx and how people handle things.
But as you do your evaluations and decide where you post, keep in mind the new site after one week is twice as active as this one is. You’re welcome to like this one better (this is our first and special forum), but skip the posts about how the other one will fail for X or Y reasons. It’s already succeeding. OTOH, anything you can think of to improve the other place will be read with gratitude… other than making it into a mirror image of here. That’s not the intent. Viva la difference. ;-)
There’s a whole crew (not just the mods and deputies) to help and make you more comfortable. We will help you navigate and customize. We will bring your concerns to the software developers (who are already considering a ‘bump’ feature as a desirable upgrade).
And don’t worry about these issues. The goal is to reach as many people as possible, not just the current readers at either site. We’re not a secret club where you have to know the handshake to get in. So, it may take both sites is some form, but even if you stay here, go there at least often enough to know your way around.
We’ll see what happens in the long run.
Cheers.
Sounds good.
Cheers! ;-)
I agree with wolf,and the loss of community is the only thing I don’t like about the new forum. The new bells and whisltes are really neat, and very helpful. And, we have more help at navagating the new forum, than I thought we would. That really has made all the difference to me, knowing someone is right there ready to help me, when I send out my distress call. AND, they don’t give up until your problem is resolved. We all are going to have to move over at some point, so now would be a good time, not later. I like the smilely faces you can add to your post at CE, much more than this, ;-). ;-)
Dem Yes, it is. What I’m finding is that it is (I assume for those who say so) easier to read things over here, but no question it is easier to do things over there (put together lists, build similarly linked diaries, search previously put together information, take polls, show teaching videos, etc.).
I thought that was what the Wiki was for? All the whizbang videos and documents were there.
Now we have to go to three places to get information. Whe Original Wiki, newfluwiki-sanbloxthingamabob, and here.
Sorry Dem. We agree to disagree. I don’t “get” how your stated goals are served by the new diary thing, and you don’t “get” some of the legacy issues on continuity, community and user interface.
I’ll shut up now and go away.
EdnaMode said: “Adjusted my preferences to a “flat” view. That means all comments in a diary/thread post in the order they are made (same as it is here) rather than in that annoying indented trail that made my head hurt.”
Edna had some really good advice in this whole post,but if you do go with the flat choice it may be confusing for you. The reason for the indentations is so that you can go back in the thread and make comments on previous comments. This makes it so much easier to post, and when you read back through with the indentations you have a real conversation. It’s much warmer and makes a lot more sense.
Wolf said: “Yeah, I think I’ve gotten to know my way around the “new” forum - just don’t like it as well. There is an intimacy here that is lost, a ‘friendliness’… missing there. In time I may adjust, but for now it is a bunch of disconnected ramblings - despite the whizbang ability to pull together whatever posts, diaries, etc. which are to my liking. Maybe that’s the problem (or at least MY problem). This forum (backwards-bulletin-board type) is kinda like a family conversation -Uncle Arbuckle’s hemorroids (at the holiday dinnertable, no less!) along with (the quiet) grandchild who has just posited the latest quantum theory with a few new twists including string theory (huh?).”
What Wolf is describing is what happens when you go with the flat threaded choice. When I tried this, I couldn’t tell what people were referring to. Everything is scrambled for me.I think this is where you lose the sense of community that many of you have commented on. You see, I feel even more of a sense of community there than here, when I read it with the indentations.
The way you configure your view of the messages will affect your perception of the threads. It’s a personal choice that you have to make. One size definitely does not fit all.
The main Wiki is the fruit of our labors, the forums are our collaboration table, as well as our discussion place. For me, the new forum makes collaboration so much easier.
We really had to make a change, remember? This old forum just wasn’t made to handle what we needed it to do. Any change in looks would have seemed foreign, I think, because this was our home for so long.
I’m going to put this post on more than one thread in hopes different people may see it. In answer to your requests for a more linear list of threads (diaries) on the new forum, I’ve made the following diary (thread):
Collected Links to New FluWiki 2′s Topics of General Interest by: bgw in MT Sat Dec 02, 2006 at 14:12:48 PM MST
(Good for new visitors! - promoted by DemFromCT)
Many Wikians have asked for a list of topics with no extraneous text, so people can find what they are interested in without a great deal of scrolling. This is my attempt to answer this need, at least temporarily.
The creator of SoapBlox is planning to make the kind of page everyone has been asked for in the next revision. I hope this list will work as a stopgap measure.
I am a natural-born screw-up, so I’m sure there will be many mistakes. Just let me know what they are and I will try to correct them. If I have left out anything, let me know that, too. I’ll be able to maintain this list until we leave for the holidays.
As it stands, this list is not complete. These are just the topics I feel most people might be interested in, but might have difficulty in locating quickly. I have only gotten as far as part of November 25 so far. I will add more of the older topics later if this seems to be of any assistance. It would be helpful if you would let me know. Offer any suggestions you can think of to improve it.
I am going to include all topics that seem likely to be of general interest, but not such topics as lookout posts, area preppers, or newsreports,since these can be easily accessed from the subject box in the left column. I’ve also left out sandboxes. I can’t offer a list that puts itself in order of last comment or one that you can “bump” in, but perhaps the following listing will help for the present:
What follows (on the other forum, that is) is a list of threads (diaries), who started the thread, the date it was started and then a link to that thread with “no extra text”. I hope this helps ya’ll out. (See, I’m originally from Texas.)
If you read my earlier posts here and on the new board, you will find that I was slow to warm up to the new board (with comments such as, “I don’t hate it, but I don’t love it, either”). I had the same complaint many have voiced here---that the new board is simply too cluttered. DemFromCT had a link directly to the “Diaries” page which I have been using and which makes scanning the new board a little closer to the format I like here (link located at 01 December 2006, 18:53). When/if the “bump” feature is added, I will be very, very happy; and I think most who have complained about the diaries feature of the new site will be also.
Finally, I’m hoping people will help to keep the list of diaries easier to scroll through by limiting what they type in the first text box to one short sentence describing the topic, then go to the second box to finish the post. That way only the title of the Diary/thread and a very short descriptive sentence will appear on the main Diaries page (as well as useful infomation such as when it was created and how many comments have been made) and you don’t have to scroll through several paragraphs of material for each Diary/thread that is posted. IMHO, that would be the best of both worlds---a fairly clean, concise list of subjects being posted which also includes a short description to clarify the subject under discussion as well as some other useful information. But NOT so much information that you just want to give up in frustration because you are having to search through so much superfluous material.
Genoa, that’ user education and establishment of site norms. We are working on that.
I agree, Genoa. My list is just a temporary measure. Maybe some halcyon day we will have one or both of the real solutions to the problem.
I made my list shorter and bolded it so that it is easier to read. I found I had managed to copy the darned thing in twice so it was way longer than it had to be.
bgw in MT wrote: Edna had some really good advice in this whole post,but if you do go with the flat choice it may be confusing for you. The reason for the indentations is so that you can go back in the thread and make comments on previous comments. This makes it so much easier to post, and when you read back through with the indentations you have a real conversation. It’s much warmer and makes a lot more sense.
I agree that the flat view has the potential to create some confusion, but having used the flat view all week, there have only been two or three times when I felt a comment was out of context. I think if you only check the diaries a couple times a day and new comments pile up it may be worse, but I hop in and out pretty regularly. The most new comments I’ve had in a diary so far was eight.
The problem (aside from its aesthetic offensiveness) with the threaded view (which is the official term for the indented view) is that every time you go into a diary, you need to scan anew from the top of the diary so you can hunt and peck for the new posts. I don’t have the time or the desire to scan that way. The flat view makes for much more efficient scanning of the new comments IMO.
And the few times something was out of context/confusing, it was a simple matter of scrolling up a couple of posts to get my bearings annd re-establish the connection.
I do think the flat unthreaded view will be a good tool to transition for the more reluctant wikians, but bgw in MT makes excellent points as well. And it’s good that we have the option of different views to meet different preferences.
“The problem (aside from its aesthetic offensiveness) with the threaded view (which is the official term for the indented view) is that every time you go into a diary, you need to scan anew from the top of the diary so you can hunt and peck for the new posts. I don’t have the time or the desire to scan that way.”
You don’t have to scroll to see new posts. Press Ctrl F on your keyboard. Your browser search box will appear. Type [new into the box to do a keyword search for new posts. This way your curser hops from one new post to the next. no scrolling :)
Well I’ll add my 2 cents worth…as you all know I love it here. I’m not the least big afraid or confused by the new site and I’ve even ‘graduated’ from having my settings on flat unthreaded to threaded or nested or something like that.
My ONLY visual complaint is the size of the text there & we’ve discussed the ways to change that to death - none work for me - not rolling my mouse button, not clicking on enlarging the text from the dropdown box in my taskbar —apparently the only thing that may work for me is doing a software upgrade on my computer, which I’m too busy to investigate right now.
All that aside, posts here are “seen” easily, & posts there aren’t seen quite as easily, thus creating the feeling of you being more on your own, than having the community feeling that you have here on a bulletin board, but that’s because this IS a bulletin board, that isn’t.
Dem said at 02 December 2006, 06:51 that it’s better there because it would do more—easier to read (and communicate) here, easier to DO things there. That’s fine if you have a need to ‘do’ something, but I think that us folks here are more into reading & chatting than doing stuff.
We all appreciate everything that the rest of you are “doing” and we’ll read it! But most of us here don’t have any desire or need to do graphs or major links to things, etc.
So it’s not a matter of convincing us to go over there — we can go and DO go over there, but it’s not as pleasant there for us as here is. If we’re looking for the ‘latest’ I guess we have to go over there, but then we’re more likely to come back over here, start a thread if we have to and chat about it here comfortably.
Guess that’s what I had to say.
I just want to do everything I can to make as many as possible comfortable over at the “new house”. I guess I want us to be all one, big, happy family again. :) I’ll just have to accept that we are one big happy “family” that has two houses now. A second home is always nice, I guess. <big grin>
I’ll certainly always spend time in both places.
bgw, that’s a nice way of thinking about it — I think it sort of describes our ‘use’ of each forum based on our needs at the time.
I went to our news thread here & only found a link to the “new” news thread instead of finding the actual news here, which isn’t as great, but at least someone took the time to give us a link & we didn’t have to do the research ourselves.
So we’ll lose some quality of information here because of them just giving us links to over there, but it’s better than nothing & that is most likely only to be a problem on threads that rely solely on links, rather than idea exchanges like more likely to do here. That sort of doesn’t sound right, because I don’t mean to make light of the new site, but right now it is not so chat/communication-oriented as link-oriented (because that’s so easy now-like having a new toy)…..wonder if that will sort of level out as people get settled in there & start talking more and linking less? I doubt it! :-)
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