Continued from here
bump to get above the old thread
Senegal1 said,
“the process of writing plans has become the response”
Tom DVM Dick, I know a real good place you can put that pandemic scale.
Olymom C at 00:50 I can envision the poor fluwiki swan doing 360s as people decide yes-its-on then no-its-dengue etc.
I’m Workin On It…Thats like a rottessorie isnt it? Cooked swan..
crfullmoon C at 08:55 I think the bird you mean is, our goose is cooked.
Not a famous quote but one that is funny and inspirational to me.. my sixteen year old son tells me this as I buy, store and sort through storage..
“Oh fearless leader, who will lead us through the valley of the bird flu”
FriscoParent at 11:50 now that’s CUTE! And probably a very true statement!
In science it is the same. Any thing unproven is called a theory. Often the answers come from out of the blue, call it heaven sent, call it intuition call it luck. I happen to think it is the glory of the human mind which has the ability to see beyond its own existence into the world of the unknown.
Anon 451
Okieman at 22:49. My apologies if I am making a mountain out of a mole hill.
A few years ago visiting relatives in Texas I kicked a mole hill that turned out to be a nest of fire ants. My cousin screamed for me to get away quickly enough that I got away mostly unharmed. You got to keep an eye on those mole hills. They may not be what they seem to be.
gardner
Medical Maven at 18:47 A poor mans version is a cardboard box totally encased in aluminum foil.
I was planning on wrapping my head in foil and thought-perhaps-it would protect me from all bad things.
(Maybe Ill just do a foil hat.)
<sigh> just feel like were planning ourselves to smithereens somedays..
Grace RN at 21:45
Im becoming convinced that WHO actually stands for:
What? Huh? Oh boy.
Are We There Yet.
De Jure….And although that bit of drama took place awhile back, I figure it might as well go on the rumor thread since it cant be corroborated by three sources of unimpeachable direct evidence, as clearly a few on this thread require. By the way, Id really like to know which of you need this level of evidence for rumors so I dont accidently pick you for a jury one day, especially if Im representing the plaintiff!
“Frankly, with the kind of website this state just put up,
I am not sure my officials even attended the same pandemic flu summit that I did,
although I swear I saw them there with my own two eyes”
Pixie
“Since China has been widely accused of covering up disease outbreaks such as severe acute respiratory syndrome, Chan was asked if she would be tough on Beijing should there be another cover-up.
No way, said Chan, Do I look stupid? Do you think I want to spend the rest of my life rotting in a gulag with every other honest bureaucrat in China?
OK, she didnt really say that. But I bet she thought it”
Monotreme
Influentia2--
2. The birds in question know where the state line is and know just not to show up here in Ohio.
“So yes, the lessons from Y2K and the Swine Flu are clear:
1. Get to work early and hard if you want to avoid clear disaster, and
2. Dont count on a vax to solve your problems for you (it may cause more problems than you already had). “
Pixie
From the illustrious TomDVM domiciling north of the sub-tropical line . . . very north. Emphases mine.
A22 Conversation with a Virologist JKT 2
Well, I would hate to rain on anyonefs parade. /:0)
Patch. I think we can deal with the realities here and still conclude that the cup is half full. Maybe it is the scientific threads that I read herecbut I rarely see anyone being overly pessimistic. Science isnft about reassuring people it is about the ecold hard truthf of the matterclet the chips fall where they maycsort of thing.
Based on anon 22s excellent studies, maybe we should be looking at 1968 as another wave of the 1957 pandemic or alternatively we should be looking at both 1957 and 1968 as waves of the 1918 pandemic.
It is interesting that N1s apex is 1890 considering a pandemic of approx. virulence to 1918 occurred in 1890.
My thinking like everyone elses here as evolved since I came on flu wiki eight months ago.
The conclusion I have come to is that a catastrophic event occurred sometime before 1918. This event produced the completely unique virus H1N1 that has dominated the field of play for the last century. In 1997, a ekissing cousinf of H1N1, also a completely unique virus has emergedcand at some point in the near future it will dominate the next century squeezing the offspring of H1N1 out of the picture.
We have been in a quiescent period in respect to pathogens in our lifetimes that came to an end in 1980 with the emergence of Aids and Ebola and has ended with H5N1.
The pandemic in 1918 was not an extraordinary event but a normal event that may take place more than once a centurycin the eighteen-hundreds, there were two pandemics similar to 1918 in 1830 and 1890.
I have a problem with the statement that a vaccine that has the poorest performance of probably any commonly used vaccine is not going to work on seasonal influenza, will work on the incredibly virulent eChina virusf..this conclusion defies all logic, in my opinion.
Good science results from the abrasion of ideas not personalities.
CASafetymgr
“In other words, everyone is waiting for someone else to make the decisions for them (because they are either too afraid of making the wrong decision or do not want to have to fight with local businesses/politicians about the decisions they have made) and nothing is getting done”
Sniffles
pablo escobar: …What is the goal of the governments pandemic flu communication plan?
Is it to maximize awareness of a possible awareness?
Is it maximize the number of people to purchase preps?
Is it minimize misinformation?
Is it to avoid causing unnecessary fear and alarm?
Which of these goals is mutually exclusive?
What is the goal of the governments total worst case scenario pandemic plan?
Is it to minimize deaths?
Is it to minimize disruption to the current economy?
Is it to minimize disruption to the post pandemic economy?
Is it to ensure continuing operation of the government post pandemic?
Which of these goals is mutually exclusive? …
Bbbwwwwwwaaaaahahhahahahahahahahaha!!!
Bronco Bill
“So what else is new?”
anon_22
The report noted some modelling studies suggest a highly lethal virus could not spark a pandemic, because people who fall gravely ill aren’t walking about transmitting flu to others.
If Bird Flu Becomes Pandemic High Death Toll Possible: Who Report
This must be in the running for the dumbest quote of the year from an official agency award.
Oh by the way, pay attention to the quotes from Mike Perdue in that report. He should get the “jello” award for the public official least likely to make a declarative statement about H5N1.
The award would be a carton of Jello.
Excerpt:
“It’s one of those things that you hate to conjecture,” said Michael Perdue, an avian influenza expert and scientist with the WHO’s global influenza program.
“We just don’t know enough about this virus, a whole new subtype for humans. . . . If a new H5 enters, it could be more lethal than anything we’ve ever seen in history. (But) who knows?”
“I think it’s anybody’s opinion because it’s just so completely unknown.”
Link: http://www.mytelus.com/news/article.do?pageID=cp_health_home&articleID=2438396
If we at Flu Wiki have to limit what we say to that which would be acceptable to the Chinese government, then not only are we compromising our own search for the truth, but we stand in tacit approval of a system many find to be morally repugnant.
Scaredy Cat
Great site, great thread, great people. Or should that be in reverse order?
Homesteader
C.D.C
Centres For Disease Confusion
The Center for Disease Control (CDC) has ordered 190,000 doses of avian influenza vaccine to enhance the nation’s flu-fighting capability amid renewed pandemic warnings, a senior official said on Thursday.
According to CDC Deputy Director Chou Chih-hao (???), the government decided to procure the vaccine from two foreign suppliers after a new resistant strain of the highly pathogenic H5N1 virus deadly to humans and poultry was found to have spread through Asia.
Chou quoted a report by scientists in Hong Kong and the U.S. as saying that the new virus — dubbed the “Fujian-like” strain — may have mutated in response to vaccination programs designed to halt the disease in farm flocks. “
http://english.www.gov.tw/TaiwanHeadlines/index.jsp?categid=10&recordid=101365
Let us excercise our freedom of speech to protect and improve life for all men, but with circumspection towards the political realities in the world.
Okieman
Maybe we are just a flock of birds, all having a bad dream.
JWB
i hold all of us on the flu boards responsible for uncovering the truth about the science, treatment and tracking of H5N1 as well as holding each other up in these fast approaching dark times.
Goju
Wood stoves take practice to get the hang of them, like training your spouse after you get married.
-NEMO
(these quotes were becoming a bit too serious!)
anon for this thread too at 01:56 Then we have the emergency management director for a health system on the west coast who said - For example, health workers would have to improvise in a true pandemic. If we had to, wed think about Home Depot they carry masks and gloves, he said. Theres a lot of things you can do. Wed have to work together like we never have before.
I dont think this is what Home Depots You can do it. We can help means.
Homesteader at 09:19 Anon at 1:56
Tell the Director not to worry, if his/her Home Depot theory doesnt work Im sure there is a Visine for that! :)
When speaking informally to medical and science types, I always just say I dont want to talk about the bird flu. Lets talk about the implications of pandmeic influenza.. and that has always changed the conversation in another direction as, in their minds, they really are two completely different things.
Pixie
Olymom at 23:45 Can you throw a snot wringing fit? (or borrow a surgeon to do so : ) Theres nothing so incandescent as anger inspired by injustice and it sure sounds like injustice is being done to you and your fellow HCW
anon at 18:00 on the “How it Begins” thread - “Darwin did not say it would be easy”
Amen, Brother!
If worst comes to worst, weve also got gobs and gobs of grasshoppers, but that will take a bit of getting used to. But hey, they eat my garden, I eat them, it all works out in the end;-)
- Okieman, from the ‘Desperate Food Coices’ thread
LOL! I mean Choices not Coices of course….
what goes around comes around:-)
i value my speech here in the US. but making a point on this website solely to win an arguement is not worth a single life. speech is important - no one is saying that people in the US should have their speech censored. why does everyone have to wear their values on their sleeve? there is quite a bit more to the world than the US - and I do love my country - but posting text that is offensive to other countries may cause this website to be blocked. and the people that live in those countries would not have the opportunity to learn from this site that we have. and more people will die.
is it really worth a human life just to make a point in an argument?
c3jmp, from the ‘Ask the Moderator’s’ thread (the current incarnation)
Of course, this is just a plan - it may all go to sh** down the road depending on how things go.
LauraB
That was me at 8:31. Cookies don’t stay on this computer any longer than they do in the cupboard at home.
“To do nothing to battle the next pandemic is unacceptable, but to promise protection against an outbreak is irresponsible.”
Dr. Michael Osterholm, Director for Infectious Disease Research & Policy.
From where’s Tom thread…. TRay75 at 21:34 Just another suggestion on why things are fizzling down a bit, based entirely upon personal experience.
Living in intense knowledge of a pandemic for a year or more can have very adverse mental health ramifications - especially if day-to-day life is falling short of needs. We have already seen a few contributors (and I am paramount amongst them) reach the point of not being able to sustain the intensity of continuous life on Flu Wiki, a so called adjustment reaction. Ultimately, each of us must take and give what we can handle, and then it may be time to move on to a safer place for a while.
The Wiki has been a catalyst for a world-wide initiative that crosses national, ethnic, and age boundaries to prepare for what may be the unimaginable or unsurvivable. I hope that it does not loose that concept of hope, but it may be natural that chronic stress will be the mechanism causes many regulars to fade to other sites or even to retreat to lurker status and concentrate solely upon personal survival without remaining on the front of the preparedness wave. We need to get used to it - if the pandemic comes the odds are many of us, no matter how prepared or informed, may not be be here, and others must pick up and go on with what they have learned.
I hate that things have come to this, but growth is never without some pain. Ill be lurking myself until something significant changes - either personally or scientifically - for the foreseeable future. This is not to make any statement, but to avoid crushing depression from living in the shadow of a pandemic. The battle is best left to those capable of fighting it. We all react based upon our experiences.
I did notice a little while ago Tom DVM had decided it was time they prepped at his placesaw it in the Canadian preppers thread.
;-) I was glad he finally was but, it was a bit unnerving; like seeing the wiki swan sneeze.
hey - dat’s me! :-)
Sorry crfullmoon! I forgot to write your name!
No problem (-it was funny to see myself quoted when I was checking the thread for new quotes). (Prep, Tom, prep!)
uk bird at 16:06 If were talking about bad omens and portents, I hope Im not a sign of things to come. 2006 has been one of the worst years of my life and the way my lucks running you can expect a pandemic to start round about my birthday. So, keep the second week in December free. LOL.
Bronco Bill at 16:08 uk bird at 16:06 --- I had a year like thatjust last month, in fact! ;-)
‘If diplomatic and consular staff need twelve weeks, why would ordinary citizens need only two.
Well, diplomatic staff has the wrong kind of immunity.’
ANON-YYZ on the Preparation in Hong Kong II thread.
“So even though we are better prepared, it is like we have our seatbelts on, while no one else does- in a car going 210 km per hour in a rainstorm, driven by a 17 year old who has just drunk a half a bottle of vodka and he feels GREAT!. We are safer, but not safe! “
clark, on the “Black November” thread
“I suggest a ten minute time lapse for all panflu related stories via the media outlets. It must first be filtered and dissected through the fluwiki!”
JWB on the ‘Global Rehearsal - what a Story’ thread
clark:
So even though we are better prepared, it is like we have our seatbelts on, while no one else does- in a car going 210 km per hour in a rainstorm, driven by a 17 year old who has just drunk a half a bottle of vodka and he feels GREAT!.
We are safer, but not safe!
(oops, late to the thread -stopped to tag spam all the way. Sorry, Northstar)
S’alright crfullmoon, it was worth repeating!
(Yeah, that “We’re safer today than we were yesterday” speech line just ain’t cutting it with me. Safe”er” but, still screwed…)
pablo escobar:
planning to fail. Planning to Fail. PLANNING TO FAIL. As long as we use 1918 as worst case, we are planning to fail.
(11/15/06)
Well, guess if we are safer than we were but still are screwed then that means we are being safely screwed. One big government prophylactic response!
from the IQ thread…..
InKy at 16:38 Flu Wikians are independent thinkers and self-starters. They look at big pictures and discern how pieces fit together. They navigate adjustment reactions to face horrific possibilities squarely rather than retreating into denial. They act on what they know rather than throwing their hands up in despair. They exercise multiple intelligences, solve problems, and recognize the value of thinking together. They inquire, they delve, they discern, they think ramifications through. They dont give up, and they recognize bunk when they see it. There is surely a convergence here between a modicum of intelligence and a certain personality type. (There was another thread on the latter.) Certainly high IQs are well represented in this community, but many people with high IQs and advanced degrees dont get it. IQ is obviously a contributing but less than determinative factor in deciding who ends up here.
JWB at 21:18 Watch. The next thing they will find out about this b*sturd virus is that it carries little viral chainsaws to cut through your front door.
(serious time we live in but, this visual made me grin)
Green Mom:
it would be nice if someone could explain what this means. recepto binding domain sounds like a home for X-men.
There is no more if.
DennisC at 23:09 on the Checkmate thread.
crfullmoon, I loved that one too! :-)
Friom the IQ thread: Lisa the GP at 22:10 A know it all isnt necessarily someone educated beyond their intelligence. Often it is someone who thinks a piece of knowledge is so neat they just want to share it, and they make the mistake of thinking that others are both interested in and intelligent enough to understand the knowledge shared.
I have no idea what my IQ is. I think the primary purpose of the number is pissing contestsIm smarter! No, no, Im smarter.
I think there are three unifying factors in flu wiki people. First, because of the volumes of things that need to be read to keep on top of the flu situation, we are all adept (and likely fast) readers. Secondly, something somewhere in our backgrounds has convinced us that everything does NOT always turn out right, that bad things DO happen to good people, and that life CAN be unfair.
I think that we have a pessimistic streak that tells us that the unthinkable isnt unthinkable, and isnt impossible.
I also think we have a fundamental distrust of authority. If we trusted them, wed leave all this to them and just wait to be told what we need to know when we need to know it. As it is, we feel it is our job to become and stay informed because we do not trust them (either via suspecting their competence or their intent) to let us know how and when to act.
Another from the IQ thread: Olymom at 00:05 I dont think in IQ numbers. I think in dog breeds. Id have to say Im part border collie. When something aint right I just cant leave it be I nudge and nip and worry and howl and carry on until it shapes up. High intelligence or high neurosis? I make my kids nuts but, by gum, they are turning out to be pretty amazing people. So, is this an intelligent crowd or an intense crowd? (or both?). I miss Tom DVM. Theres a great hearted Labrador if there ever was one.
bump
At the IOM meeting, I met a member of TPTB whose name will be instantly recognizable to people on this forum. When I introduced myself, he instantly said oh, so you are the people who give us the news.
anon_22
Some places just dont make plans, they make true preparations.
by
Fiddlerdave at 01:18
Mass Evacuation to Rural Communities
it is inconceivable that the government is not stepping forward with information regarding SIP. It will go down in history as public homicide.
by
Jody at 10:57
Finding Other Preppers Ontario
Besides, you’re in Rumors. Hearsay is next door, Fact is down the hall..
On the new forum in the new rumors diary DemFromCT @ Sat Nov 25, 2006 at 17:11:25 PM EST
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Klatu, now you are just trolling. Knock it off.
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Deliberately trying to start a fight with a moderator is both childish and stupid. You are being both. I don’t know why you are trying to provoke anyone, but you will not be permitted to continue this. It has nothing to do with my being embarrassed and everything to do with disrupting the site.
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Frankly I’ve had enough of this. If I want to see this, all I have to do is go to the pre-school. Please, stop. Please.
Sorry, folks. Carry on.
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bump
OKbirdwatcher: As you say: prep., prep., prep., and SIP. Thats our plan.