Do you see a theme here?
Greetings,
I have been prepping for the Flu Pandemic ever since the “Katrina Debacle” some 6 month ago, and just recently moved to the Kingman, AZ. area.
I’d love to meet more other preppers from the Kingman or Arizona area. There’s also a group on Yahoogroups for Arizona Flu Pandemic preppers that is more geared towards local needs and communication:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PandemicFlu
Blessings,
Mister E. ___________________________________________
Arizona Flu Pandemic Help And Support Group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PandemicFlu
“Chance Favors The Prepared Mind.”
Melanie: I’m not sure what you mean, but I cannot now devote much time to discussions and I am not attracted to another board( as above ). I will devote my time to my immeadiate community. I live in NE Arizona and it is as sparcely populated as NW Arizona. I guess this advertising is the price you pay for having something as popular as the FW. Kelly
Hello Np1,
I was not sure what Melanie meant either, but I knew it will be important to find others in the Arizona area. In fact the more locally the comunication is, the better our all chances for help, information and survival are.
Assuming that you in NW Arizona are preparing and stocking up, you might find yourself surprised if you discover that your neighbors did not prepare and stock up and arriving at your doorstep for help, food and water (which you probably cannot afford to give away).
I really think that after preparing and stocking up ourselfs, we need to make sure to help our neighbors to do the same. The more the better. In ours and their interest.
I see nothing unethical or immoral of posting a localized message board for the purpose of saving lifes, and helping others and ourselves.
Voluntary localized help and support of our respective communities is probably the best service we (the non politicians and non emergency workers) can do for our community and fellow citizens.
In that sense I hope many more Arizonans will respond to this thread and/or join the Arizona group, and am confident the founders and moderators do agree.
I hope you will join too, as NW Arizona sounds close enough to Kingman, AZ which is where I am located.
Blessings,
Mister E.
_________________________________________________
Arizona Flu Pandemic Help And Support Group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PandemicFlu
“Chance Favors The Prepared Mind.”
Looking to reenergize the Arizona wiki group—for example, how are we going to deal with no AC, the oncoming monsoon, food prep and preservation, social unrest?
Let’s hear it from the fellow zonies! So Cal and New Mexico, please feel free to chime in with thoughts—
It’s appropriate that those of us in dry, hot areas band together. I’m in the high desert of New Mexico, and mostly concerned about how we would deal with disruptions in the water supply (our city water comes mostly from deep wells).
Most of the other wiki posters appear to live in places that get plenty of rain or have nearby streams or lakes, so rainwater capture or purifying lake/stream water could be a reliable water source for them.
Every part of the country has their own specific challenges. We will probably not freeze, but heat is a huge issue. Water is as well (although I have a swimming pool—but not everyone has) I keep thinking about the native Americans who lived here before and their strategies for living in the desert: adjusting times of activity during the day, storage of dry provisions, water transport and treatment, stuff like that.
For three to four months of the year the desert is a truly tough environment. Monsoons yes, but no hurricanes!
Jefiner – at 09:42: I live in NE Az and have my own well. Solar powered. I have lived in the low desert in the past with nothing but swamp cooling and the word is adaptation. Arrange you activities in the cooler parts of the day; use fans( fairly easy to solar power, see the discussion on solar generaters )and water is the real top issue. Get a good filter for your pool water, and a way to keep people out of it, and you are halfway there. Kelly
We are near Flagstaff, Closer to the rez, and have banded together with some neighbors to insure water in the event TSHTF. We are already off the grid and stocked up. Kelly is right about activities, early morning and early eve. 2pm is usually the hottest part of the day, so plan on getting in the shade. Siesta. Also you may want to look at the threads on rain collection as you already have a large storage, (pool) Jon
Unfortuately, we live in Tempe and in the middle of the AZ desert! Fortunately, we live within a artificial lake community and after the grid falters, I expect to be sterilizing and filtering lake waters for cleaning etc. We have many neighbors with pools as well. Problem is, SIP and running around fetching water won’t mix well…
The back up plan is after a few weeks, (and if we aren’t sick/dead by then) use the stockpiled gasoline and load up the camp gear and food supplies and head for the mountains; camp near streams coming from the Mogollon Rim.
corrientempe- I hope you are not thinking of Oak Creek as that will be a death trap. I have a feeling the water will be extreamly polluted
oh no! we will try to avoid any large groups of people as well more like Christopher creek, and I plan to be armed with filters, bleach, and fire. Any other regions you might suggest? Our long range plan is to move out of the valley, but financially that can’t happen until 2010. If we leave before then, it will be due to emergency-evac! The stop in northern AZ will be temporary as we will continue north to settle in a secret location to weather TEOTWAWKI.
corrientempe- I would be inclined not to travel during a pandemic. If TSHTF I would be concerned about road blocks, Military or civilian. Also traveling throught AZ, UT or NV there is little water except the Colorado River.
Your point is well taken…. I’m still mucking through what the long term plan will be. At first I prepped for 6 weeks, but then I’ve pushed that up to 3 months. I now see that many preppers expect to need at least 12 months!!! The reason I believe we will have to leave is due to complete break down of the cities and being so close to the border. I think that crime and gang activity will be too dangerous and I have teenage daughters to worry about. I’m convinced that if TSHTF, our already porous border will become a non-existent border and it will be a re-make of the Viking hordes envading/pillaging Europe! If I sound scared, that’s because I truly am! =(
I would suggest rethinking plans to head to the high country in event of a pandemic. My father has a cabin off the Control Road and I’m very familiar with the area — I’ve been backpacking/camping my entire life in the area. Unless you have a house/land up there it’s not going to be a good place to be.
Some specific issues:
Not legal, no … but they did it anyway. Fossil Creek Road and the Control Road at Tonto Village were both blocked by illegal roadblocks — in the case of Fossil Creek Road, someone swiped an official “road closed” sign and set it up. In the case of the Control Road, there were people out there standing in the road and turning back anyone who didn’t live in the area. They eventually got told to knock it off by the cops. (The “road closed” sign on Fossil Creek remained in place until it rained.) I’m sure there were other blockades I’m not aware of.
In the event of a pandemic, I’d expect them to be armed with guns. And frankly, for quarantine purposes, I’d probably cheer them on.
2. See above about wild fires. You DO NOT want to be in the rim country during a fire if there’s no one to fight it.
3. Flooding. If you’re thinking Hellsgate & The Box Canyon on Christopher Creek south of 87 I really don’t recommend it. Most of the other creeks will flood pretty good during a hard monsoon rain.
4. Most areas with surface water are private land — leaving relatively few areas that AREN’T. Most of these will be packed with people. It will not be an isolated paradise because everyone else will have the same idea. Think “Refugee camp.” Do you really want to be in a refugee camp during a pandemic? That’s if you can get in. I was up there on Memorial Day taking a cache up to the cabin and helping my dad move … the forest sounded like a motorcross race, and there was a person camped on every flat patch of ground. (Even in areas with no water.) I expect during a pandemic it will be MUCH worse.
And I’m serious about most areas with water being private … my father’s cabin has a couple of creeks on either side of it that have perennial water. People occasionally camp there, unaware of the houses in the area or that the creeks are private land. The landowners are mostly absent but I expect them to show up in an pandemic. They won’t appreciate people camping there who might have a deadly plague. — Plus there’s the whole security issue. It’s going to be tough dealing with starving folk who didn’t prepare, I expect we’ll see some. We’ve also discussed dropping trees across the private road in to keep people out. Wouldn’t surprise me if folks dropped trees across the main roads as well.
5. Other access issues — I could conceivably see Payson setting up roadblocks for quarantine; they could isolate the whole town with forty or fifty armed folk because there’s only a handful of roads in and out of town. (As an aside, Payson’s a deathtrap if there’s ever a bad firestorm that blows up suddenly … Pine and Strawberry are worse even than Pine.) Also, the Beeline has a tendency to be blocked by landslides during the monsoon aside from any human barricades. Also, the dead “bug trees” have a tendency to come down across the road even without human help. Every windstorm there’s at least one. Big tree weighs several thousand pounds and may be a chore to move even with a sharp chainsaw and plenty of fule.
(One of my concerns about getting to my father’s cabin is quarantine/roadblocks. I’ve got a second stash at my house in the desert just in case — however, my house is on a 650 foot deep well & the well is shared with eight other families … it woud take a LARGE generator and a lot of fuel to run that well in the event of a pandemic … and then when either the well or the generator broke down I’d be up a creek. It’s not going to be a good place to be during a pandemic.)
6. Weather. You may have camped in the area, but until you’ve spent an extended amount of time up there, you may not realize how unfriendly the environment can be. It can be 100 degrees and a storm rolls in and suddenly it’s 50 and there’s 5″ of hail on the ground and you’re freezing your butt off. It can also be nearly as hot as the valley during the first part of summer. Winters can get down to zero at night and it may or may not snow. It’s colder when it’s clear.
Leva
Leva, thanks I really appreciate your insights, and believe me, I’ve already considered that entire scenario. Based on the amount of crime I anticipate here in the cities, we may have no other choice that to flee the valley. Being that you already own private land with water, I can appreciate your concerns about “invaders” and hopefully you and your familly are well armed and expecting to defend what you have. You have my blessings.
Hi all,
Resident of the West Valley of PHX.
Some thoughts. . .
A waterbed with the heater unplugged (or no power, DUH) will “help” keep ya cool.
Ortho Weed sprayer (water ONLY) for showers and cooling.
Can’t imagine “bugging out” to Northern AZ or anyplace else. Go where you know (stay home)
FIREARMS: Any gun owners???
Do you have a Concealed Carry permit????
Been to Ben Avery Shooting Range????
Should we have a “Meet and Greet” pre-pandemic picnic???
JUST thoughts
No, apparently at this point we’re doomed to die where we live. Having a year’s worth of food will only provide time for the people who rob us. What’s the point of having “bug-out-bags” if you are going to be stopped or shot wherever you go?
If you do go, I’d suggest somewhere really remote/rugged. These are all REALLY REALLY remote areas where you’re not likely to see other people in good times and which might not be thought of by the masses. Note, really remote, really dangerous hiking if you’re not used to it. Might think of:
Upper reaches of Westfork on the Oak Creek. Depending on how the last flood’s rearranged the boulders you may or may not have to swim to get in. It’s about three miles on foot to the first plunge pool that might need to be swum — probably far enough to discourage MOST people from hiking. Find a place to camp above the likely waterline; this might be difficult.
I rethought my warning on Hellsgate — if you can find a place with water AND a flat spot not likely to flood in a severe storm, might work. Terribly rough country. I’d scout it out ahead of time. (I’m not fond of heights — I’ve done some hiking in the area but decided I preferred hiking places with fewer acrobatic moves needed to get from point A to point B.)
Remote parts of the Verde River between Childs and Horseshoe Dam might work, too, and these would be more likely to be accessible from the valley. Take Cave Creek Road north past Seven Springs (it becomes a forest road at some point) to the turnoff for Sheep’s Bridge. Likely lots of people camped at SHeeps Bridge; there are even in good times. Cross the bridge (it’s a foot bridge) and go north. Remote country and plenty of water. Also plenty of natural food. Take fishing tackle for BIG catfish and carp. Be aware that there is a stretch of trail four or five miles long where it leaves the shores of the verde and cuts across a mesa — no water.
Leva
Sorry, just sitting here in tears…. :(
Thanks for the extra advices, believe me I’ll hang on to it.
I would not suggest West fork of Oak Creek. I have hiked the entire length both ways. There is a secret trail around most of the water. The big problem would be getting to either the bottom(Call of the Canyon) or top (Woody mountain road) during a pandemic as you would have to travel through either sedona or flag to get to either. Also there is little edible plants in west fork. The wild grapes are great though. Hehe. Jon
I suspect that between the locals and the expert hikers there won’t be many places to take refuge in the mountains. How long do you think you could hide out there anyway? And would you be able to take your preps with you? I think most of us are better off staying where we live and working to keep our communities going.
Yea, just imagine attempting to carry a month’s worth of supplies into some of these areas………….Kelly
Hi, West Valley also. Corrientempe, I have that scared feeling also about living here and crime. If it eases your mind a bit, I read somewhere that in the 1918 pandemic crime went down. Even the criminals were scared to come out or were dead. Sorry that I can’t give you the link, I’ve read so much lately, I can’t remember where I read it.
SCW, I have got to get one of those weed sprayers! Haven’t been to Ben Avery in years.
Maybe the best thing is to relocate away from the southern border, before BF hits the US, but after its confirmed as H2H. I mean, LEGITIMATELY, as in renting a house in another community and move our stash there. My main 2 concerns about living in/near Phoenix is 1) water, and 2) crime.
I expect rationing of gasoline if TSHTF, which should cut down on movements of everybody, including criminals.
That sounds like a better plan. Jon
DesertPenquin - Last time I was at ben avery’s I scoped myself on a rifle while practicing for elk hunting (ouch)! I have handguns and taken CCW classes. I’ve stocked up on ammo, but its all put away. No plans to practice, hope it won’t come to that. If TSHTF I may put up a sign “looters will be shot”. I’ve been thinking about taking up cross bow, eventually the bullets will run out and I can put together make-shift missiles for the bow. I know, now I sound just plain nuts, huh?
By the way, it is a comforting thought that the criminals may be afraid of the flu - but I will never over-estimate ignorance!
corrientempe – at 14:51 Deep breath, deep breath. Don’t let this overwhelm you. Yes, these are scary times we MAY be facing, but YOU are in far better shape than 99.9% of our state, in that you are aware of the danger and have begun to prepare for it. You have sought knowledge and found a TON of it here.
Please consider that an empty house is a much easier target for the bad guys than an occupied one.
Desert Penguin – at 14:47 Welcome fellow West-sider. . . If you have a scary feeling about your neighborhood have you done a double / triple check of your place to strengthen any security “weakness” you may have???
As we are an AZ bunch, you may remember the gas pipeline break a few years back and the havac thought brought as far as gasoline supplies. We no refineries in our state, which could mean we run out REAL soon.
corrientempe – at 16:04 WROTE: No plans to practice, hope it won’t come to that.
PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE and plan for the unexpected. PLEASE.
SCW - Thanks. You are right, I just hate wasting ammo. What I really would like to get is a pump shotgun for close encounters if necessary, then aiming isn’t so important, especially if I were sick and weak. You know, I wouldn’t even think about this stuff if I wasn’t a mom with daughters in the house. My husband and I would be content to stay home and deal with reality there. I just don’t want to risk the girls, that’s why I’m thinking about relocating. That plus the water issue.
As far as the summer heat goes, we can deal with that as long as there is water. I ride my bike to/from work everyday and it’s still not too hot for me. Not bad for an old lady! ;)
corrientempe – at 16:20: At home defence distances the spread on a load of 00 buck is only about an inch; you still need to practice and be proficient with any weapon you may have to use. As far as the ammo running out the avg firefight lasts for less than three minutes and takes about 15 rounds. Then one of the parties is either dead or disabled. Surviving multiple stand-offs is an urban fantasy. Consiter finding someone that either lives up north or that has a place( up north) that you can throw your lot in with. Kelly
Just to clarify what I posted above — I do NOT advocate anyone moving into the woods to survive this thing. Unless you really, really, really know what you’re doing, I don’t think it will be a feasible thing to do.
If TSHTF in the city and conditions are so severe to make you want to leave, anywhere accessible by road with surface water is going to look like a refugee camp. In a tent, you’re also a lot more vulnerable than you are in a house, and anyone desperate enough to leave the city may be desperate enough to rob you or worse.
See above comment about Memorial Day in the woods … the cops and rangers were BUSY that weekend … and that was with people who were just “having fun” not, not desperate, starving folk …
Leva
Corrientempe-Have to admit the crossbow idea crossed my mind too. Glad to know I’m not the only one. But since shooting is as natural to me as drinking water, I’ll stick with the guns! I don’t have a CCW, hubby does. I still remember the days when I could carry openly without all the newbie transplants freaking out. Water is a major concern. I don’t relish the idea of hauling water from the lakes that the geese and ducks are swimming in.
SCW AZ-My concern about my neighborhood is simply the fact that it is a subdivision, too many people, too close. I can hear the man two homes down coughing and smell his cigarette smoke. I mention bird flu and neighbors narrow their eyes at me trying to figure what planet I am from. If you have suggestions on how to secure a subdivision home I would greatly appreciate your advice. You are right about the gasoline too. We will run out right away.
Because so many of us in Arizona have swimming pools, I have been hunting for info and products that can be used to make chlorinated swimming pool water potable. Any suggestions?
How about a solar distiller?
FOR: sam – at 18:03
I threw together a homemade water purifier. Others besides mine too are discussed below.
I’ve heard that using algaecide isn’t the greatest for drinking though.
See the discussion here. http://www.fluwikie2.com/pmwiki.php?n=Forum.GettingBetterWaterLowTechAndHighTech
Desert Penguin – at 17:40 WROTE:
. . . Have to admit the crossbow idea crossed my mind too. Glad to know I’m not the only one. . .
THAT just means that you’re both crazy!!!!
You might check into aquarium supplies, some are formulated to eliminate (negate) chlorine. Probably using the filters discussed will remove the mineral build up. I plan to filter, boil and treat any water we use for drinking and cooking.
SCW AZ - Hey!!! I hope you smiled when you said that! ;)
jon c – at 18:26 How about a solar distiller?
Yes. As we speak I’m cutting the copper pipe. Will use to pre-heat water for hot meals. Also for if the Black Berkeys go kaput.
Another option is a Steri-pen. It uses UV rays. . . One liter at a time. . . About $150.00 and uses batteries
WROTE: corrientempe – at 18:32 Hey!!! I hope you smiled when you said that! ;)
REPLY: Yeah. . . Of course. . . Sure. . . Uh hum, uh hum
WROTE: corrientempe – at 18:31 You might check into aquarium supplies, some are formulated to eliminate (negate) chlorine.
REPLY: Ask (call manufacturer) if the product was safe for humans. It may be safe for fishy’s but may also put heavy metals in the aqua
SCW AZ- Crazy?…It’s the heat, yeah, the heat.
In a pinch my homemade Solar oven (CooKit) works as a distiller. As long as the pan is raised up with a food grade trivet, the water drips off the top of the bag to the bottom. My next project on the list of things to do is a full time solar distiller.
SCW AZ- and it could always have a second use. Wink wink. hehe
WROTE: jon c – at 19:02 . . . and it could always have a second use. Wink wink. hehe
REPLY: Limited Edition. . . At 108 degrees outside, VERY limited. . .
We’ve been discussing what we’re going to do as well. We just bought our first house and are in no financial position to do elaborate house rentals or travel elsewhere. Our main concern is access to water…we can purify it later if it’s not potable, but we’re not near a lake/pool, so what do we do? We’re not in a super rich neighborhood, and not in the barrio, so I don’t think (fingers crossed) we’ll be the first target for crime.
Guns? I’m not especially for them, however, both my husband and I are ex-military, comfortable with them and we’re planning on getting one here in the house.
How about a big dog that barks? There is soooo much to think about.
you may want to check out the “ideas to prevent home invations” Threads. I know there are at least two.
On the lake —
1. In a pinch, boil the water and drink it. Don’t worry about the duck doody; boiling the water will take care of any nasties. Add gatorade to take care of the pond taste. (Trust me. I’ve drunk far worse and survived. Stock ponds. And worse.) I wouldn’t drink it long term because it’s probably either treated effluent or canal water and both are likely to contain pollutants. But short term it’s better than dehydration.
2. Does the lake have fish in it? Most lakes in AZ do; grass carp and tilapia at a minimum. If it’s got a connection to the canals, it may have bass in it as well, and definitely crawdads. All are edible in the short term.
Leva
If TSHTF, we plan on staying in our home; it still makes sense to shelter closer to social resources—water, food, health care, even though all of these may be seriously impaired. I can’t imagine trying to transport all the necessary supplies (even in two vehicles) to another location. Luckily, our neighbors are of a similar inclination as we; I have not brought up BF, but neighbors on either side are knowledgeable about survival and firearms. I suspect that our community will form committees (a la 1918)for community protection and organization. I plan on bringing these ideas up.
How about an AZ fluwiki get together?
BTW, observe the fires in Sedona today: instructive on living in the dry woods and just how vulnerable we are to the forces of nature. Our house backs up on a large wash, so we keep a pump and hose ready to run water out of the pool in case of fire—but that is also our drinking/hygiene water supply.
bump
Because of the fire in Sedona they have called out the red cross. We have been cutting large firebreaks around our house just in case a idiot decides to burn the forest.
That fire in Sedona is BAD NEWS for the state. I’m familiar with that terrain; if it’s burning where I news reports seem to indicate that it is (between Schnebly Hill Road and I-17), besides the tragedy of a fire in the Sedona area, it’s got basically a straight shot at Flagstaff and a good portion of their watershed if they can’t knock it down today. Wind’s from the south, last I checked.
If it crosses I-17, or gets into Oak Creek Canyon, things look even grimmer.
Leva
lucky we are north east of flag by about 35 miles, but it would be a shame if it gets over the rim or into Oak Creek. I love it in the spring. It is so green.
Thanks for your suggestions re my post above concerning making swimming pool water potable. I emailed Berkey, Doulton and Katadyn re removing the chlorine and algaecide. Haven’t heard from Katadyn yet but received similar emails from the other two that the Berkey black filters will do the trick for both chlorine and algaecide.
Hope none of you are being affected by the fire. sam
Greetings Corrientempe,
leaving your home and moving into the wilderness once the pandemic has begun, does not seem like a good plan to me. You’d be giving up all advantages you would gain from properly preparing yourself at your present location.
I am not sure why you consider your present location in the middle of the desert as an unsuitable location, but you are more familiar with your present location then I am.
Personally, I moved from an apartment in Las Vegas, NV, into the middle of Northern Arizona’s high desert near Kingman, some 3 months ago. As I had considered relocating before, the possible Influenza Pandemic actually caused me to move on rather short notice.
I now live on a 5 acre Ranch, accessible only by dirt road, have my own water well, and enough food, supplies and back up energy to last a year. All around me is desert and other Ranches. Desert does not have to be a deterrent. I’m rather glad to live more or less away and far out.
Relocating before the Pandemic starts would be much more sound, as long there is enough time to properly prepare your location. So, if you were planning to relocate already, maybe this is a good time to speed things up and do it now.
However, make sure that your present location is really unsuitable. It might be a better place to outlast the Pandemic, than you think now.
Blessings,
Mister E.
Arizona Pandemic Flu Help and Support Group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PandemicFlu
“Chance Favors The Prepared Mind”
sam – at 21:03 WROTE; Thanks for your suggestions re my post above concerning making swimming pool water potable. I emailed Berkey, Doulton and Katadyn re removing the chlorine and algaecide.
REPLY: Sam would you mind sharing the Berkey and Doulton e-mail addresses??? There is a thread about the safety of non-food safe plastics for water storage (read: plastic lined pools). Would like to hear if the Black Berkey removes the phthalates (DEHP), a chemical that softens the plastic. . .
http://www.fluwikie2.com/pmwiki.php?n=Forum.StorageOfWaterInPvcKiddiePools
Hi all..I’m in tucson and have two small children. What concerns me is the summer heat if a/c is out. The north country and the mountains aren’t so bad, but it can get downright wrecthed in the valley cities. If this thing were to break in the summer, I’m not how we could keep cool enough. We’re talking 110 + dgrees sometimes. Any suggestions?
Thanks, Karena
That would be (wretched) :)
I really do know how to spell…just typed too fast..ha ha Seriously, I’m mighty concerned about this. I’ll check back to see if any one of you kind souls has any ideas. The only thing I can think of right now is battery-operated fans, and cool, wet clothing in the afternoon.
Hi, Karena! We have been discussing this. It will be truly miserable, but it can be survived. Limit activity during the heat of the day and stay inside with shades down and fans running if possible. keep wet towels around your neck. The folks who settled out here were able to cope with the heat, and we can too.
Thanks, Jefiner! I read all the posts, and you’ve got me thinking, too. I had visions of no ice, no a/c, sweltering, suffocating heat in the house. But a light just went off in my head….swimmimg pool! We don’t have one, but my brother-in-law close by does. The kids (20 month old and 5 year old)could definitely keep cool in a pool. (That is to say if it doesn’t get cordoned off for drinking water…yikes!) Can you even imagine that we would have to be having this kind of mindset for an extended period ot time? Scary. Last time I thought like this was Y2K. Nothing happened, and I pray to God nothing happens this time, either, but it’s not looking so good. Just read a post on another thread that Dr. Niman said that was another possible 8 person cluster in Indonesia. Not the one that just recently occurred, but an additional one…..
Karena :)
SCW AZ - I sent it to www.doultonusa.com as they make the filters. Also sent to a distributor of Berkey www.countrylivinggrainmills.com sam
This should be in the How Low Have You Gone thread but that has lost it’s way. I went into my neighbor’s yard today and gathered mesquite pods. She always just throws them into the garbage anyway. Filled a 5 gallon bucket before the heat got to me!
People did live in the desert before A/C. Anybody out there with a grandma with a few stories?
My grandparents moved out here in the 1950′s. Lived in an army tent in what is now AJ for the first year, built a house from scratch. Her sister used to ride a bus from Apache Junction to Florence to go to HS, and the house was so remote she told me they didn’t bother with a door on the outhouse — and she had a “great view of Superstitition mountain” from her throne.
As I recall her telling me, they left town in the summer! Their way of dealing with the heat.
Seriously, a significant percentage of the population packed up and left and went up north for the summer months. Those who had to stay behind (farmers, etc.) survived by sleeping on rooftops or porches, by swimming in the canals. They suffered, but if you’re in good shape (which most of them were) it is livable.
I’ve worked in an warehouse with no air conditioning in the summer in Phoenix … you can do it, with sufficient water, if you’re in good shape. Good way to lose weight …
Thanks for the Yahoo group info; I live in southeastern Arizona and have been behind in my prepping..but am catching up now thanks to fluwiki. It’s good to hear other’s desert solutions. I’ve been keeping food preps in my garage and was concerned to read in another thread that temps over 80 degrees may affect food storage. Does anyone else keep their dry food preps in their garage?
hghdesertAZ at −03:35 I have been concerned about this too. I do not keep food in the garage, however our air conditioner inside is set at 85, still too hot for long term food storage. I can’t imagine what the temp is in the garage. My understanding is that you must use what you have and rotate, rotate, rotate. The food does not last as long in higher temps.
Before this summer hit Phoenix, I decided to move all my preps from the garage to inside the house. I’m lucky enough to have a lots of cabinet space in my laundry-room which has a/c. The only problem I have now is keeping the kids out of it! I’ve posted a “hands-off” sign, but I’m considering cabinet locks! I do worry a little about how much weight wall-mounted cabinets can take since I have all my canned food up there.
I’ve been reading here for several weeks and recently began my own prep program. I live in Payson and can assure you that from what i have heard, the town will “defend itself”… many of my neighbors are aware of the Flu risk, not sure what it is or how it works but cite crime as a major concern. I too believe crime in valley will force many toward high country, and as several have noted here already, will not be well received in a pandemic. Having a degree in general biology i only know enough to scratch the surface, but enough to understand and have begun to slowly introduce the subject to others in the area to get us all on an “aware” footing. Phoenix is a fragile city… interupt gasoline or water and people begin to lose it within days. I cannot even imagine what a pandemic would do. Good luck and be prepared.
Agreed, I don’t think the Phoenicians realize just how close to the edge they live.
Question for other Arizonans, how much water are you storing? I’m trying to get up to storage for 6 months, for usage of 2.5 gallons per day. I don’t plan to fill all of the storage capacity in advance, but I may change my mind about that.
I plan to set up a roof collector for rainwater (if we ever have any). I figure just a tarp with PVC “gutter” at the bottom, with a PVC downspout going to a barrel.
Prophet from this — what sorts of comments are you hearing?
As I’ve mentioned, I’ll be bugging out to my father’s cabin on the control road, which means I need to go through Payson to get there. I’d hate to get lumped in with the “unwashed masses” trying to get through in the event of a pandemic, and a good portion of my preps for my family are there. (I’m not able to store large amounts of food at my house here — nor is it a good place to plan to SIP because of major water issues.)
Cyg, there is a rather large WW2 generation presence in Payson along with stealth morman element + gun toting mountain/ranch contingent. Nobody wants to appear as a loose cannon so “bird flu” is discussed only among trusted friends and neighbors. “Lumped in with unwashed masses”… I believe you will have time as several factors will come into play… Media will be instructed to downspin intitial outbreak (if it even happens… Wallstreet is very well informed so watch airline stocks as they will be hit hardest) - media downplay as in 1918 event. Also SE Asian gov’ts will paint w/happy colors.
Do you remember the Kinder-Morgan gasoline pipeline rupture and resulting chaos in Maricopa a few years ago?
Phoenix lives day to day. Disrupt “one” element and…
Folks in the White Mountains will adapt quickly and circle the wagons.
My comment in regards to you having time is unfortunatly related to the fact that SE Asian villages are now hessitant to report “activity” as the government is sure to arrive within hours to destroy their entire avian reserve (food-income)- whether it be antigentic “drift” or “shift”, good chance that you will know before the masses simply due to the fact that you are here on this msg. board. and have an edge if you research “open-source” intel effectively.
Can you picture woods canyon lake surround by 1000+ people?? will State Route 87 be closed?
btw, I trade stocks for a living so risk assessment is my business… anyone not considering this risk is foolish imho. No need to panic, but do continue to read the “tea leaves” (daily)
best of luck in all,
steve
Thanks for the assesment, Prophet. It’s pretty much what I expected but it’s nice to hear confirmation from someone who lives there full time. I’m just a weekend visitor when I’m visiting my dad or borrowing his cabin …
I’ve got images of “refugee camps” around any source of water in the high country myself and it’s not a nice thought. There are going to be a LOT of people who try to head up there and the land can’t support it. It’ll be nasty.
It’ll take me two trips to move everything (livestock, supplies, tools) to the cabin until I get a trailer. So I’ll have to watch it closely …
Regarding the gas crisis — yeah, I had to go to court twice to testify as a witness to a vehicular assault I saw during a mob scene at a gas station. An old man with artificial legs was trying to direct traffic and some idiot DELIBERATELY ran him down when the old guy told him to get in the (half mile long) line and then tried to deny he did it despite the old guy’s handprints on the hood of his car. Charming. And that was just over gas. (And the jerk had travelled over 70 miles because he heard we had gas, doubtless passing multiple other gas stations with gas in the process.)
Pat in AZ Thanks for your info on “Laurel’s Kitchen” and your spreadsheet. I’ve been thinking of something exactly like that; it sounds like we have similar interests. I haven’t tried the breakfast in a thermos idea yet, but know I’ve read about it somewhere…I’ll have to find it. I’ve made a temporary email, fluprepper@yahoo.com for you to send the spreadsheet to me. I’d really appreciate it…I’m still behind and am getting lost in the organizational process. Thanks so very much.
highdesertAZ, the thermos info is on www.kurtsaxon.com under Survival Foods — really you just bring water + the grain or beans to a boil, then put it in the thermos and let it rest on its side for a few hours or overnight. Easy. I’ll email you.
Get a pressure cooker for beans. :)
Better yet, get a pressure CANNER. Can them in mason jars several meals worth at a time. Efficint use of fuel and it eliminates any problems with food safety. The beans will then keep indefinitely until you open them — with a double-stack canner you could do a week’s worth of meals at one time, with about two hour’s worth of fuel — and pressure canners operate on a low to medium heat. The mason jars are reusable; just buy tons of extra lids. (Big Lots often has mason jar lids cheap — $.99 for a dozen.)
(Beans at a seriously risky food as far as food poisoning goes because they’re carbohydrate rich and bad bugs just love them. Keeping tepid beans in a thermos for several hours seems like a prescription for a bad case of food poisoning to me. I’m REALLY wary of that idea.)
Breakfast in a thermos works for things with a very short prep time, like instant rice and oatmeal. I’ve DONE that while backpacking.
There is a place here in Phoenix where you can purchase 55 gallon food-grade drums for $16 or $25 (depending on the top). The blue drums previously held soy sauce and the white drums held vinegar. He also has siphon pumps, extra bungs, bung wrenches etc.
Met him for the first time today (so I have no interest in his business) when I went to pick up a couple of drums for our water storage. If you do an internet search for Arizona Barrels you will find him. Name is Brian. Hope it is ok to post this kind of info.
Thanks, Sam.I`ll give it a look.
Nice to see a few others here taking this seriously.
With the showers the past few days I tested out my rain gathering, did pretty good.20 gallons, and that was without using the tarp.Now, if IF it hits during a rainy spell, not like last winter when we had 160+ days with no precip.
Our rainfall here the last few days was barely measurable. We are getting a new roof, and gutters, so hopefully we can salvage more than we do now.
I haven’t met very many people in Phoenix who even heard of bird flu much less are actually preparing for it. The pharmacist who gave us our shots said she heard it would be a “mighty, mighty flu.” One friend saw the Oprah program. That’s it. Everyone else looks at me like I’m from another planet if I bring it up.
Sam in AZ — befre you pay that amount for the barrels, call around to local feed stores. Chitwoods in Maricopa has barrels for less than that, last time I bought some.
Horse people like the barrels as feeders/waterers.
Thanks Cygnet - the feed stores I checked couldn’t verify what had been stored in the barrels before or how long the barrels had been sitting in the sun in their lot.
I liked these because they are like new, the labels indicating the former contents and source are all still on them and they have been thoroughly washed and cleaned. Plus I liked that he had brand new replacement bungs etc. Was worth the price to me. I still thought they were cheap.
I did get free barrels from other sources but I know they contained detergent or “mystery” contents. Those I’ll use for other than drinking water.
Living in Phoenix, water was our biggest priority. Between the drums and the Black Berkey I feel better. Now I’m trying to decide if I need a grain mill. What are you guys working on?
There is a lot of discussion re beans and rice for long term food storage but living in Arizona I am concerned that water and fuel (lack thereof) may be more of a problem for us than some other areas of the country.
Am concentrating now more on Minute Rice, Quick Oats, canned beans for quickness of cooking and minimal use of water. What are your thoughts?
Sam — use a pressure cooker as long as electricity or fuel holds out, or if you have access to wood. A solar cooker will also work very well here.
My preps are pretty heavy on rice and beans, and I have two pressure cookers that double as canners. :)
For what it’s worth, don’t overlook your CAR in summer for heating food up. You can’t really cook things in a hot car, but you can put potatoes in foil or apples on the dash of a car to bake them eventually, and you can get canned food up to “eating” temperature that way.
Solar and/or haybox cooking are methods I’ve been looking at and need to practice with. Also have a good quality thermos.
Gave away my pressure cooker when we moved here. May need to get another :)
SCW AZ-Did you get your solar distiller done? How’s it working for you?
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